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  #1  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:22 AM
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Default 2018 Hot Car Deaths

https://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...ort/623133002/ - 6 month old - "Forgot to take her to daycare."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hot-car...as-2017-05-17/ - 7 month old - "Forgot to take her to daycare"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-dies-...ry?id=54253787 - 10 month old - "Forgot to take to daycare"

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/mi...301-story.html - 1 year old - "Forgot to take him to daycare"

If they are late showing up, just send a text.

Yes, I strongly feel if more parents were held accountable we might see less of this. Until then a 10-second text could save a life.

Parents: Look Again!!!!!!!

An examination of media reports about the 700 child vehicular heatstroke deaths for a 19-year period (1998 through 2017) shows the following circumstances:

54% - child "forgotten" by caregiver (376 Children)

28% - child playing in unattended vehicle (198)

17% - child intentionally left in vehicle by adult (120)

1% - circumstances unknown (6)
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
https://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...ort/623133002/ - 6 month old - "Forgot to take her to daycare."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hot-car...as-2017-05-17/ - 7 month old - "Forgot to take her to daycare"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-dies-...ry?id=54253787 - 10 month old - "Forgot to take to daycare"

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/mi...301-story.html - 1 year old - "Forgot to take him to daycare"

If they are late showing up, just send a text.

Yes, I strongly feel if more parents were held accountable we might see less of this. Until then a 10-second text could save a life.

Parents: Look Again!!!!!!!

An examination of media reports about the 700 child vehicular heatstroke deaths for a 19-year period (1998 through 2017) shows the following circumstances:

54% - child "forgotten" by caregiver (376 Children)

28% - child playing in unattended vehicle (198)

17% - child intentionally left in vehicle by adult (120)

1% - circumstances unknown (6)
It's tragic for sure but until they make a law (like the good Samaritan law) stating providers are NOT liable should they not text or call, I will never agree to sending a text or calling.

I am responsible for multiple children at one time and placing that kind of responsibility on me as a group caregiver (that counts head constantly) is unfair and unrealistic.

A parent that has ONE child (usually...multiple concurrent deaths are rare) should bear the responsibility.

If baby has two parents, maybe the other (the one not in charge of dropping off at daycare) should be required to call and check to see if baby arrived.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:04 PM
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We are supposed to here. I always do. If anything happened to a child in my care I would be devastated. If it was something I could’ve prevented with a simple text and didn’t I couldn’t live with myself.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:11 PM
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I hate these.
I can not imagine the panic a parent must feel when they discover he/she discovers this mistake was made. It's so devastating to think about a small child enduring the emotional and physical pain of being left to die like this.

It just makes me so so sad.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
https://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...ort/623133002/ - 6 month old - "Forgot to take her to daycare."
Good suggestions there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hot-car...as-2017-05-17/ - 7 month old - "Forgot to take her to daycare"
School parking lot for hours and nobody noticed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
https://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-dies-...ry?id=54253787 - 10 month old - "Forgot to take to daycare"
Forgotten Baby Syndrome - Some might say it's legit, others an excuse. Either way, parents need to do more to make sure they don't forget. I'm sure when the dad was called and he went out to the car to see baby still in it, he was devastated. Sometimes life can make you forget little things, but babies aren't little things.

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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/mi...301-story.html - 1 year old - "Forgot to take him to daycare"
Said: “This is the first U.S. child that has died this year due to heatstroke in a vehicle,”
The 1st of how many?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
If they are late showing up, just send a text.

Yes, I strongly feel if more parents were held accountable we might see less of this. Until then a 10-second text could save a life.

Parents: Look Again!!!!!!!

An examination of media reports about the 700 child vehicular heatstroke deaths for a 19-year period (1998 through 2017) shows the following circumstances:

54% - child "forgotten" by caregiver (376 Children)

28% - child playing in unattended vehicle (198)

17% - child intentionally left in vehicle by adult (120)

1% - circumstances unknown (6)
Some daycares would have trouble adding monitoring and reminders to their already busy schedule, but if I ever do go into daycare, I'd do it. If someone was on a regular schedule and was running late, I'd be texting to check up because I would assume that if there's a change of plans, the parent would notify me, and I would be wondering what's going on.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:16 PM
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It's tragic for sure but until they make a law (like the good Samaritan law) stating providers are NOT liable should they not text or call, I will never agree to sending a text or calling.

I am responsible for multiple children at one time and placing that kind of responsibility on me as a group caregiver (that counts head constantly) is unfair and unrealistic.

A parent that has ONE child (usually...multiple concurrent deaths are rare) should bear the responsibility.

If baby has two parents, maybe the other (the one not in charge of dropping off at daycare) should be required to call and check to see if baby arrived.
^^^^THIS^^^^

My parents are not always prompt. It would be a nightmare to have to call them. It is my responsibility to care for children once they walk in my door. Before that the responsibility should be on the parents.

So should we also be required to call to be sure they bring their children in the house at night?
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:26 PM
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So should we also be required to call to be sure they bring their children in the house at night?
I never said "required". That was a projection. My statement was simple. "If they are late showing up, just send a text."

I will further clarify.

If you are expecting a kid and they don't show up at their usual time a simple text could save their life.

I don't get why that statement is controversial and have no intention of debating the concept's merit.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike View Post
Said: “This is the first U.S. child that has died this year due to heatstroke in a vehicle,”
The 1st of how many?
There will be more, summer is just starting. This happens many times, every year.
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Old 05-21-2018, 02:01 PM
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I’ll never forget the time a man in an office below my office left his child in the child in the middle of summer. This happened about 2 years ago and we were off to lunch (11:30ish) ambulance was just arriving and I witnessed them pull a limp child out of the car. I was horrified, angry, sick to stomach, and saddended. They blocked the entire entrance off from anyone being able to enter or exit which caused a huge audience. Everyone was concerned for this child and I couldn’t help but go to my car and just cry. I ended up leaving early that day because I just couldnt bounce back into work mode after something like that.

Thankfully the child did survived but it hit so close to home. You read these stories on the internet or see the news and think how could that possibly happen. I don’t know how or why but it’s not something I ever want to experience again. I usually do send text messages to my families if they are late just because it bugs me that I don’t get a heads up that they are running behind. If I can save a life by a simple text, then I’ll keep sending my texts.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:19 PM
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I send a text too, just because I want to know if they're coming or not.

These things make me sad and angry. Just how does it happen? How CAN it happen? I try to not judge but this is a hard one.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:25 PM
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I send a text too, just because I want to know if they're coming or not.

These things make me sad and angry. Just how does it happen? How CAN it happen? I try to not judge but this is a hard one.
I'm with you on that one. I realise it's possible, but there's no way I'd forget that I have a kid in the back seat.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:46 PM
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.1ae17d9a7933

I always encourage everyone to read this article and to never believe that it can't happen to you. Put safeguards in place. Give yourself reminders. My husband and I always send a snap to each other when we drop off the kids. It's not foolproof. I've never personally known anyone effected by this, but I read this article every single year. I can feel the suffering in these stories. It's very tragic.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:54 PM
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(Please note that I am in no way blaming providers or assuming responsibility falls on them --- but if you had the opportunity to safe a kids life by checking in with the parent, wouldn't you want to help?)
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happymom View Post
(Please note that I am in no way blaming providers or assuming responsibility falls on them --- but if you had the opportunity to safe a kids life by checking in with the parent, wouldn't you want to help?)
Oh of course! But I also don't think they should mandate providers to do it because if something did happen and a provider was busy, forgot, etc., to make that call, what would happen to that provider?
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:35 PM
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I would never want to be responsible to call or text a parent if a child didn't show on time. I never want to be responsible for a child that is not in my care. I think State's that require providers to do this have crossed the line. It's way too much liability especially for centers, providers who carry numerous kids that have rotating or odd schedules or part timers, and providers with large groups.

Arrival times are so busy. I don't watch the clock like I do at departure times.
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by happymom View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.1ae17d9a7933

I always encourage everyone to read this article and to never believe that it can't happen to you. Put safeguards in place. Give yourself reminders. My husband and I always send a snap to each other when we drop off the kids. It's not foolproof. I've never personally known anyone effected by this, but I read this article every single year. I can feel the suffering in these stories. It's very tragic.
It's a mixup how some parents are charged and others aren't, but I doubt it makes much difference because I'm sure either way, they will be punishing themselves more than the courts do.

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I would never want to be responsible to call or text a parent if a child didn't show on time. I never want to be responsible for a child that is not in my care. I think State's that require providers to do this have crossed the line. It's way too much liability especially for centers, providers who carry numerous kids that have rotating or odd schedules or part timers, and providers with large groups.

Arrival times are so busy. I don't watch the clock like I do at departure times.
As I said before, I think checking is a nice thing to do, but there's no way they should be able to make it mandatory. You're responsible for the children while they are in your care, not before or after.
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:08 PM
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It's a mixup how some parents are charged and others aren't, but I doubt it makes much difference because I'm sure either way, they will be punishing themselves more than the courts do.



As I said before, I think checking is a nice thing to do, but there's no way they should be able to make it mandatory. You're responsible for the children while they are in your care, not before or after.
There are alot of links in this thread, is there a state that is trying to make it mandatory?

I am licensed for 6 and my parents are very regular in their times and thankfully also very responsible in letting me know if they're running late. If they don't let me know and they are late, I text. I have only had to do that a few times, but the parent every time showed such appreciation that I did that. Like others, if me simply texting has the possibility of saving a life, I say why wouldn't you.
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:52 PM
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I have families that are very regular with drop off/pick up times & I absolutely text if they don't show. Have only had to do that twice I believe. Mom had overslept & was grateful for the wake up call. I have another family who has been consistently late for both drop off & pick up. They've been no call no shows several times. This is the family that forgot their kid in my care. I never know whether to contact them or not. It's just so normal for them. And they rarely respond to a text. Today was their last day with me. They were thirty minutes late. They've been on time the last few weeks since I said one more tardy b& I'm done, but apparently when it's your last day there's no threat for losing care.
Ishut the door & breathed a sigh of relief. I do worry about the child though.
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Old 05-22-2018, 05:34 AM
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I always send a text but certainly would not want to be held liable for that one time I forgot and a child died!

There has to be an alarm system set up in a car that detects motion, similar to the Angel care system. It gets hooked onto a carseat or the back window or whatever and when the car is not in motion and it detects movemeng it alarms on your phone or something. I cannot imagine ever forgetting my kids in a car, it is unfathomable to me but I assume people are not intentionally doing this
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Old 05-22-2018, 06:12 AM
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How does it happen? My ADHD spouse goes on autopilot and takes the wrong route quite often. He also forgets part of the schedule when there are multiple steps to it, so people don't get dropped off or picked up.

When he's driving, I'll say "Where are you going?" and he'll snap back into it, realize he's headed to a different part of town, and turn around. When DD was in school, I insisted he call me each morning from the school parking lot. There were times he forgot to call, and I'd call him and yell at him until he went out to the office parking lot and looking inside the car. There were a couple of times I couldn't get ahold of him right away and was in the process of reaching out to his coworkers when he called me back. I taught DD as soon as possible to yell "Stop!" if anybody was leaving her in a car, and to never, never stay in a car by herself, even if Mommy or Daddy left her there.

I am so, so glad DD is in a booster seat and gets herself into and out of the car now. Come to think of it, today I'll have her practice climbing over the seats and unlocking the doors from the front control.
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Old 05-22-2018, 06:35 AM
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(Please note that I am in no way blaming providers or assuming responsibility falls on them --- but if you had the opportunity to safe a kids life by checking in with the parent, wouldn't you want to help?)
That's a very unfair statement and way too complex to expect a yes or no response.

Did you watch the video I posted about the provider testifying at the Senate hearing in MN... the provider that had a baby die of SIDS in her care....look what happened to her.

Do I want to even be involved in discussions about MY responsibility in calling a no-show parent to double check to see if they forgot THEIR baby in the car?

The short answer is no.

That doesn't automatically mean I am cold, or don't care or that I am refusing to be part of the "village" or that I am callous and unfeeling.

It means I have enough responsibility on my plate already (potty training, sleep training, teaching good manners/behaviors, teaching health/nutrition, providing exercise and outdoor time, teaching academics and self-help skills etc..) and I'll be damned if I will accept the responsibility and liability of making sure parents don't forget their precious babies in the car.

If the parent forgets and baby dies......it's a tragic, horrible, senseless accident.

If I forget to call and baby dies....I'll forever be the monster that caused a child's death. I will never work in this field again and will more then likely lose everything I've worked for my whole life.


Society as a whole really needs to start reassessing responsibility and assigning it where it truly belongs.

In MANY areas of life. Not just this particular topic.







@Happymom....my response wasn't aimed at you personally. I'm just weary of the concept that child care providers should bear the responsibility for so many things.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:04 AM
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Society as a whole really needs to start reassessing responsibility and assigning it where it truly belongs.
This!!!
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:06 AM
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That's a very unfair statement and way too complex to expect a yes or no response.

Did you watch the video I posted about the provider testifying at the Senate hearing in MN... the provider that had a baby die of SIDS in her care....look what happened to her.

Do I want to even be involved in discussions about MY responsibility in calling a no-show parent to double check to see if they forgot THEIR baby in the car?

The short answer is no.

That doesn't automatically mean I am cold, or don't care or that I am refusing to be part of the "village" or that I am callous and unfeeling.

It means I have enough responsibility on my plate already (potty training, sleep training, teaching good manners/behaviors, teaching health/nutrition, providing exercise and outdoor time, teaching academics and self-help skills etc..) and I'll be damned if I will accept the responsibility and liability of making sure parents don't forget their precious babies in the car.

If the parent forgets and baby dies......it's a tragic, horrible, senseless accident.

If I forget to call and baby dies....I'll forever be the monster that caused a child's death. I will never work in this field again and will more then likely lose everything I've worked for my whole life.


Society as a whole really needs to start reassessing responsibility and assigning it where it truly belongs.

In MANY areas of life. Not just this particular topic.







@Happymom....my response wasn't aimed at you personally. I'm just weary of the concept that child care providers should bear the responsibility for so many things.
I see both sides of this issue , I do. I however do not think providers or schools should be responsible to call when a child does not show up. I have had parents not tell me when their children wouldn't be here. If I would forget to call or assume they are simply not telling me it would be my fault? That is something I do not see as fair. I think more responsibility needs to be on the parent's. This wasn't an issue 30 years ago when I was growing up. Something has changed in today's world to make this happen.Even if you change your routine how do you simply forget to drop your child off? Parents need to set up a system for them if they cannot remember. Maybe look at your back seat each time you get out of the car to make sure no one is back there. Call your spouses when you get to work etc..
Daycares and schools bare enough responsibility. Parents need to be responsible for their children when they have them.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:07 AM
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I also think the parent has a myriad of ways to have a double check system that doesn't involve the daycare.

That notification system could be between spouses, between the parent and the grandparent, between parent and co-workers etc. They can all have a system where the parent texts or calls their notified person that they have dropped the child off at daycare and the notified person texts or calls back to confirm.

Can you imagine having laws that REQUIRE a parent to have a notification system when transporting their child to be dropped off anywhere? Parents would flip.

Why not leave it to the employers... require each business that has workers that have children under school age to sign into work and sign they have dropped their child off at care or someone else was dropping the child off? Do you think employers would want to have this responsibility?

I've heard of parents driving with one shoe on and putting their second shoe on reminds them to check the back seat. There are alarms, there are cell phones that parents can set an alarm to remind them to check the back seat.

I just don't want child care providers to be expected to do the notification. I can see SO many scenarios where a phone call or a text to a parent would make them angry if they had made other arrangements for drop off without telling the provider and they were home sleeping, in an early meeting etc, at the doctors office etc.

I have had a million times when parents are late and didn't even realize they were running late unless it interfered with something I would normally do with the kid like go out for a walk. I don't even think about the kids until they pull into the driveway during arrivals unless I train myself to be up on the receiving level of the daycare at a certain time.

Some providers sleep until the first kid arrives. The first parent is their alarm clock. She may be fast asleep when the parent was supposed to arrive. Even though I would never sleep up until the kids start arriving, I have known many providers who do so. If the kid is late they would be sleeping themselves. They wouldn't even know it was past the time.

I really can't imagine doing this when I had the business model of primarily part time kids with both day and evening shifts. I could easily have twenty-five kids on my roster. I could never keep track of it. I can't imagine centers having to do it. It would be so expensive or it would require each teacher in the rooms to have call training and do it from the rooms which would give the cell numbers of each kid to the staff. I wouldn't want my staff having my parents phone numbers. I wouldn't want to be responsible for the staff to call. I can't imagine, with the very high turnover in staff and the high volume of staff call ins, having the staff be responsible to call and me being responsible for them to be responsible.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:19 AM
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I never intended this to be controversial. I don't want to see providers feel criticised for their concerns.

Providers who are afraid of the liability of the official *recommendations are not heartless. They are experienced in the patterns of the legislature and are wary. Calling for late arrivals is only a recommendation BUT recommendations have a way of becoming mandatory in our field.

"These deaths are preventable, and everyone in the community, especially Head Start and child care providers, has a role to play in protecting our children." and "Get in touch with designated family members if a child who is regularly in your care does not arrive as expected." - https://www.acf.hhs.gov/occ/news/car...mmer-time-safe - US Dept of Health and Human Services, Office of Child Care


Especially us? That is the concept that many resent, that we are more responsible for the kids outside of our care than the parents. It is a ridiculous notion that extends to so many new "parent engagement and outreach" mandates.

Providers fear of becoming liable if this becomes mandatory is entirely valid. It should not be our responsibility (or car manufacturers, for that matter).

I, personally, stand by my conviction that we have a chance to save an innocent life. I will worry about the liability when it happens in this case. This is a risk I am willing to take.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:22 AM
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I had a parent scheduled to drop off this morning at 7:45.
They aren't here. They haven't texted or called.
I called/I texted.... no response.

What happens now?

Do I make the other 9 kids I have here just sit quietly and wait before we move onto art/craft time? Art/craft time takes ALL my attention so I can't continue calling and texting WHILE supervising art/craft time. Wonder if I'd get dinged by licensing for having the kids just sit and wait like this? Can't possibly be DAP for them.

What happened to ONE child's need not being more important than the needs of the GROUP?

So what do I do?

Do I call the police?
Do I pack-up my DCK's and drive over to their house and see what's up? My vehicle isn't big enough.
Do I call other parents to come back and pick their kids up so I can fit a few in my car?
Do I call my DH and have him go check?
Do I call the DCMs place of employment to see if she showed up yet? (last time I called her work, she had lied to her boss saying she was home sick with her child but in reality I had her child and was calling her to come pick up because child really did get sick...)
Do I call CPS? The fire department?

Seriously....what do I do now?
Realistically.....what does a provider do in this situation?
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:29 AM
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Seriously....what do I do now?
Realistically.....what does a provider do in this situation?
You go on with your life knowing you did your small part.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:23 AM
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I call and leave a message. And then go on to the next person on the list. And I keep calling until I know the situation. But I only take full time kids and they all have the same schedule. If one of them is more than 10 minutes late, I know something has happened. Lots of times, it’s simply the parent forgot to call. But once it was because they were in the ditch and once it was a medical situation. I want to know for my own peace of mind. For the most part, my parents are pretty responsible.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:29 AM
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You go on with your life knowing you did your small part.


I agree with both sides.

1) I would never want to be responsible for a child when they are not in my care. If sending a text/checking in were mandatory I would close my doors

2) If I can do something small, like send a text, I do. Depending on the family and their arrival habits determines how long I wait. Usually I wait 1 hour and send a group text to both mom and dad.

My question is this: If a provider usually sends a text to a late parent and forgets to send a text one on one occasion and on that one occasion something tragic actually does happen, like a child being left in the car, can the provider be held responsible since he/she sent texts in the past?
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:32 AM
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My question is this: If a provider usually sends a text to a late parent and forgets to send a text one on one occasion and on that one occasion something tragic actually does happen, like a child being left in the car, can the provider be held responsible since he/she sent texts in the past?
That is the fear but there is no current case history to support it to my knowledge.

IMHO, That would change if it became law like the safe sleep, fencing and playground safety recommendations did.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:58 AM
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If we were required to monitor the children's safety when they were not in our care, we would also, I hope, be entitled to the stipend the state pays to foster parents. Heck, they should just transfer right to our family, along with any 529 plans their families have for them.

If I'm parenting other people's kids when they're off my property, I should be able to rename them, make them mow my lawn when they're teenagers, and depend on them to take my car keys and pay for my retirement home when I'm 90.
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Old 05-22-2018, 09:01 AM
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You go on with your life knowing you did your small part.


I understand that it's a hard line to draw. I don't think they provider should bare the responsibility either. I wouldn't ever expect it, but one time my daycare forgot to let me know they were unable to pick up my kindergartner from school. I am grateful that the school called me.

My daycare charges $35 to a family who doesn't notify them if they don't need to pick up their child from school that normally gets picked up. BECAUSE they ARE responsible for finding that child and they can not leave without him.

But stuff happens. I have found myself in spacey situations where I turn down the wrong road, headed to daycare to pick up my kids, and then I realize my husband already picked them up. Thankfully I never got to daycare and looked stupid trying to pick up my kids that weren't there LOL
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Old 05-22-2018, 09:02 AM
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If I'm parenting other people's kids when they're off my property, I should be able to rename them, make them mow my lawn when they're teenagers, and depend on them to take my car keys and pay for my retirement home when I'm 90.

HAHA I love this.
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Old 05-22-2018, 09:07 AM
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If we were required to monitor the children's safety when they were not in our care, we would also, I hope, be entitled to the stipend the state pays to foster parents. Heck, they should just transfer right to our family, along with any 529 plans their families have for them.

If I'm parenting other people's kids when they're off my property, I should be able to rename them, make them mow my lawn when they're teenagers, and depend on them to take my car keys and pay for my retirement home when I'm 90.

I think it boils down to accountability. So many people dont want to hold themselves or others accountable. If they forget their child someone else should bare that responsibility.
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Old 05-22-2018, 09:44 AM
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If we were required to monitor the children's safety when they were not in our care, we would also, I hope, be entitled to the stipend the state pays to foster parents. Heck, they should just transfer right to our family, along with any 529 plans their families have for them.

If I'm parenting other people's kids when they're off my property, I should be able to rename them, make them mow my lawn when they're teenagers, and depend on them to take my car keys and pay for my retirement home when I'm 90.

Yup. I don't think we should be responsible for anything that happens to those children off our property. In fact I make it clear in interviews and contracts that I am not responsible for your child even as you enter my house and come in contact with your child, thats where I like my control to stop let alone 50 miles away at my parents office.
still very sad.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:01 AM
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I have a bit of a theory as to why this is happening more. It is not being distracted, in my opinion. It is being dissociated from reality. In a variety of ways. When we scroll through facebook, when we outsource our responsibilities, ect. I think the current state of daycare is a very important piece of the equation. Let me see if I can explain.

The other day, in a current thread, there was a link to an old thread on the topic. I went to it and of course, after reading it, I went on to read about 30 more, because the archives just suck you right in! The main theme (most of these were from the 2011 timeframe) was that kids spend more time in daycare than they do with their parents. A very common theme were kids at daycare open to close, every day, who would go home and be put to bed. The amount of awake time with the parent is getting less and less. We already know this is not good for the child, but I am curious as to how it effects the parent. This may be one of the effects. I don't think it is intentional, but I do think that it can be a result of habitual absence from your child. A mild and temporary form of dissociation is also called "daydreaming". Now, if you have children and are around your kids, you know that the luxury of daydreaming is very rare. They snap you back into reality every 15-30 seconds or so. If you are not around them, you can daydream to your brain's content. I wonder if parents who spend long hours away from their child every day are in a sort of altered state of reality for such a long period of time, that it transfers to the time they are actually with their children as well, hence forgetting your kid. As a nation, we have normalized the outsourcing of our parenting responsibilities to the point that we forget we are parents, even when we are with our children. It is kind of mind boggling. I think the chemistry of the brain plays a huge factor, but in terms of accountability, maybe parents need to be scared into coming back to reality. I know that daycare is our bread and butter, but I wish that when people got pregnant, their first concern was not about which daycare to send them too once they are born. Every single one of the stories listed in the OP would have been prevented if that was the case.

Anyways, this is just my theory and opinion on how we prioritize life in 2018. It kind of doesn't shock me anymore that kids are forgotten, since it is hard to remember something that you are rarely around. If parents had to feel the full impact of 24 hour care of their child, I think it would be incredibly hard to forget your child. They literally become a part of your normal, because they are the REALITY. We are parents 24/7, but I DO think daycare allows parents to check out for a very long period of that time, and maybe that messes with the brain chemistry and leads to these types of incidences.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:34 AM
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This is pretty interesting. I don't know if it has spread to other states, yet. Says 19. Found it just a minute ago.

"April 2, 2018, Kansas City, KS. On Tuesday, the Kansas Senate unanimously passed the Hot Cars Bill (HB 2516) protecting citizens from liability if they rescue a child, animal or vulnerable adult trapped inside a hot car. The “Good Samaritan” bill will now go to the Governor’s desk for his signature. The Hot Cars Bill passed the House on March 14, 2018." - http://www.kidsandcars.org/wp-conten...ses-Senate.pdf
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:30 PM
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I'm with you on that one. I realise it's possible, but there's no way I'd forget that I have a kid in the back seat.
When my son was younger (about a year old) my husband wanted to take him to Home Depot. I told him no, more than once. Why? Because I knew that my husband was capable of forgetting him in the car. It wasn’t routine for my husband to have the kids when he made trips to Home Depot or the store. My husband works construction, so he always made these trips by himself, he would go on auto pilot. My husband was constantly thinking about work and the next project.My son was a very very quiet baby, never made a sound. So the few times he did take my son, I always called my husband and made sure he took the baby out of the car and i would ask him, do you have the baby. At first it bothered him, but then he realized that he does go on auto pilot sometimes.

Now that I am a provider, I will send a text to a parent who doesn’t show up, especially if the opposite parent would be dropping off. When it’s not your routine, to have the kids with you, you go on auot pilot. To me the parent or provider or whoever was supposed to have the child that day, should cal and ask if everything’s was ok. IMHO.
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:41 PM
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I have a bit of a theory as to why this is happening more. It is not being distracted, in my opinion. It is being dissociated from reality. In a variety of ways. When we scroll through facebook, when we outsource our responsibilities, ect. I think the current state of daycare is a very important piece of the equation. Let me see if I can explain.

The other day, in a current thread, there was a link to an old thread on the topic. I went to it and of course, after reading it, I went on to read about 30 more, because the archives just suck you right in! The main theme (most of these were from the 2011 timeframe) was that kids spend more time in daycare than they do with their parents. A very common theme were kids at daycare open to close, every day, who would go home and be put to bed. The amount of awake time with the parent is getting less and less. We already know this is not good for the child, but I am curious as to how it effects the parent. This may be one of the effects. I don't think it is intentional, but I do think that it can be a result of habitual absence from your child. A mild and temporary form of dissociation is also called "daydreaming". Now, if you have children and are around your kids, you know that the luxury of daydreaming is very rare. They snap you back into reality every 15-30 seconds or so. If you are not around them, you can daydream to your brain's content. I wonder if parents who spend long hours away from their child every day are in a sort of altered state of reality for such a long period of time, that it transfers to the time they are actually with their children as well, hence forgetting your kid. As a nation, we have normalized the outsourcing of our parenting responsibilities to the point that we forget we are parents, even when we are with our children. It is kind of mind boggling. I think the chemistry of the brain plays a huge factor, but in terms of accountability, maybe parents need to be scared into coming back to reality. I know that daycare is our bread and butter, but I wish that when people got pregnant, their first concern was not about which daycare to send them too once they are born. Every single one of the stories listed in the OP would have been prevented if that was the case.

Anyways, this is just my theory and opinion on how we prioritize life in 2018. It kind of doesn't shock me anymore that kids are forgotten, since it is hard to remember something that you are rarely around. If parents had to feel the full impact of 24 hour care of their child, I think it would be incredibly hard to forget your child. They literally become a part of your normal, because they are the REALITY. We are parents 24/7, but I DO think daycare allows parents to check out for a very long period of that time, and maybe that messes with the brain chemistry and leads to these types of incidences.
I agree ☝️ 100%
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:15 PM
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"Kids are forgotten, since it is hard to remember something that you are rarely around."

Such a sad statement but so very very true.
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:03 AM
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"Kids are forgotten, since it is hard to remember something that you are rarely around."

Such a sad statement but so very very true.
This is true. I have children that are in my care every day that parents are home.
A good example of something that I find sad.
One of my little guy's turned 3 last week. Mom took the day off and left him at daycare while she kept his baby sister home with her. He is literally picked up at 3pm on the dot. He also had a drs apt at 315. That said I do send text messages if a family doesn't show .I don't want to be held accountable if they don't and something has happened.
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Old 05-23-2018, 07:40 AM
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I wonder why we don't hear of cold car deaths? Now that the word is out NOT to put your kids coat on in the winter and then put them in a car seat... why aren't parents forgetting their kids in the car when it is cold outside? With the bitterly cold winter we had here in Northern Iowa this last winter, I think a kid would freeze to death in a pretty short amount of time .
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Old 05-23-2018, 07:48 AM
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I wonder why we don't hear of cold car deaths? Now that the word is out NOT to put your kids coat on in the winter and then put them in a car seat... why aren't parents forgetting their kids in the car when it is cold outside? With the bitterly cold winter we had here in Northern Iowa this last winter, I think a kid would freeze to death in a pretty short amount of time .
"And although it's true that the calamitous effects of leaving a kid in the car are statistically more pronounced in the warmer months, the fact that fewer children die in cars during winter compared to summer does not mean that the worry should wane completely, because it does happen year-round."


"According to NoHeatStroke.org, 700 kids have died in stationary cars from 1998 through the end of October 2016. That's a devastating number of children losing their lives in avoidable tragedies (most caregivers don't realize they've forgotten to drop their children off at daycare, for example, until it's too late), and the number of lurid instances that make headlines each year is somehow climbing, rather than receding, even as each new case ostensibly increases awareness about this issue."

"because the issue simply doesn't get the attention that it does during the months of high sunshine as the when the snow starts coming down. That makes sense, to an extent, because the deaths are concentrated in April through September. In 2015, for example, there was a total 24 instances resulting in kids dying in cars. There was one each in April and May, six in June, three in July, and eight in August, followed by five in September, according to statistics compiled by NoHeatStroke.org. But there are noted instances of a child dying during each calendar month. It's happened most in July since 1998, with around nine occurrences during that month on average. The most that ever happened in November were three in 2006; It happened one time each in December 2009 and 2012."

"The only recorded instance of a kid-left-in-the-car death in January was in 2016, when a Georgia grandmother purposely left her baby grandson in her vehicle for more than five hours while she visited with friends. The 13-month-old ultimately died of hypothermia in the car, which had been left in direct sunlight with the heat cranked up against the outside temperature of 53 degrees."

https://www.romper.com/p/why-do-babi...to-say-9170098
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:02 AM
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Left out:

My personal opinion is that families have many more scheduled activities to juggle in warmer months than in colder ones. Sports, end of school activities/testing pressures, camps, recitals, etc.

Add to that the commercial focus on family time and photo op holiday gatherings keep the parents' attention more on the kids during the colder months.
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:41 AM
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Out if habit, I do send a text if someone is running late. BUT I would never want it to be my responsibility or required. I could never forgive myself if it was required and I texted an hour late and that’s what caused the death of a child. At an extreme, Parents could eventually rely on us to text as their reminder to drop off kids.

A quick text takes me a few seconds, but I don’t keep calling or texting or even glancing at my phone after I send it. I wold hate for licensing to come and I’m On my phone texting which results in a violations for not observing the Children in my care. Or if I’m busy tracking a family down and a preventable accident happens because I’m preochjpiex by a child who is NOT in my care.

It’s a double edged sword. If we call, we could possibly be assuming responsibility. If we don’t, we could posibly assuming responsibility.
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:15 PM
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It’s a double edged sword. If we call, we could possibly be assuming responsibility. If we don’t, we could posibly assuming responsibility.
You hit the nail on the head there. It's just a little extra precaution, as long as that's all it is.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff View Post
I have a bit of a theory as to why this is happening more. It is not being distracted, in my opinion. It is being dissociated from reality. In a variety of ways. When we scroll through facebook, when we outsource our responsibilities, ect. I think the current state of daycare is a very important piece of the equation. Let me see if I can explain.

The other day, in a current thread, there was a link to an old thread on the topic. I went to it and of course, after reading it, I went on to read about 30 more, because the archives just suck you right in! The main theme (most of these were from the 2011 timeframe) was that kids spend more time in daycare than they do with their parents. A very common theme were kids at daycare open to close, every day, who would go home and be put to bed. The amount of awake time with the parent is getting less and less. We already know this is not good for the child, but I am curious as to how it effects the parent. This may be one of the effects. I don't think it is intentional, but I do think that it can be a result of habitual absence from your child. A mild and temporary form of dissociation is also called "daydreaming". Now, if you have children and are around your kids, you know that the luxury of daydreaming is very rare. They snap you back into reality every 15-30 seconds or so. If you are not around them, you can daydream to your brain's content. I wonder if parents who spend long hours away from their child every day are in a sort of altered state of reality for such a long period of time, that it transfers to the time they are actually with their children as well, hence forgetting your kid. As a nation, we have normalized the outsourcing of our parenting responsibilities to the point that we forget we are parents, even when we are with our children. It is kind of mind boggling. I think the chemistry of the brain plays a huge factor, but in terms of accountability, maybe parents need to be scared into coming back to reality. I know that daycare is our bread and butter, but I wish that when people got pregnant, their first concern was not about which daycare to send them too once they are born. Every single one of the stories listed in the OP would have been prevented if that was the case.

Anyways, this is just my theory and opinion on how we prioritize life in 2018. It kind of doesn't shock me anymore that kids are forgotten, since it is hard to remember something that you are rarely around. If parents had to feel the full impact of 24 hour care of their child, I think it would be incredibly hard to forget your child. They literally become a part of your normal, because they are the REALITY. We are parents 24/7, but I DO think daycare allows parents to check out for a very long period of that time, and maybe that messes with the brain chemistry and leads to these types of incidences.
Brilliant post

I do wonder, if your hypothesis shows contributing factors why we don't see the same number of deaths in the deep winter in the cold states?
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:47 PM
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Brilliant post

I do wonder, if your hypothesis shows contributing factors why we don't see the same number of deaths in the deep winter in the cold states?
My guess is a large part of it is the thermodynamics of the situations. The very thing that makes cars so lethal in summer (well insulated, absorbing large amounts of solar energy through windows) is a benefit in the winter. Cars probably cool down slower than they heat up. Plus even though they shouldn't, many/ most parents put kids in car seats wearing coats, further insulating the child.

Look at it this way- Lets say a person spends one hour in a car in a parking lot that changed 40 degrees from room temperature. In the summer that is 112 degrees, which can be lethal quickly to a child. In the winter that is 32 degrees- still potentially lethal, but at a much slower rate. It also reached 112 much faster than it reached 32, meaning more time at extreme temps. Plus in the summer you add the additional aspect of dehydration due to heavy sweating.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
"And although it's true that the calamitous effects of leaving a kid in the car are statistically more pronounced in the warmer months, the fact that fewer children die in cars during winter compared to summer does not mean that the worry should wane completely, because it does happen year-round."


"According to NoHeatStroke.org, 700 kids have died in stationary cars from 1998 through the end of October 2016. That's a devastating number of children losing their lives in avoidable tragedies (most caregivers don't realize they've forgotten to drop their children off at daycare, for example, until it's too late), and the number of lurid instances that make headlines each year is somehow climbing, rather than receding, even as each new case ostensibly increases awareness about this issue."

"because the issue simply doesn't get the attention that it does during the months of high sunshine as the when the snow starts coming down. That makes sense, to an extent, because the deaths are concentrated in April through September. In 2015, for example, there was a total 24 instances resulting in kids dying in cars. There was one each in April and May, six in June, three in July, and eight in August, followed by five in September, according to statistics compiled by NoHeatStroke.org. But there are noted instances of a child dying during each calendar month. It's happened most in July since 1998, with around nine occurrences during that month on average. The most that ever happened in November were three in 2006; It happened one time each in December 2009 and 2012."

"The only recorded instance of a kid-left-in-the-car death in January was in 2016, when a Georgia grandmother purposely left her baby grandson in her vehicle for more than five hours while she visited with friends. The 13-month-old ultimately died of hypothermia in the car, which had been left in direct sunlight with the heat cranked up against the outside temperature of 53 degrees."

https://www.romper.com/p/why-do-babi...to-say-9170098
I wonder if the deaths in the cold months could be more in the warmer climate states who have unseasonably hot days at times?

I also wonder if the cooler months have as many instances but the child doesn't die from it and once discovered, it isn't turned in?
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:53 PM
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I also wonder if the cooler months have as many instances but the child doesn't die from it and once discovered, it isn't turned in?
That was my first thought.

Dave’s theory makes total sense.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:55 PM
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My guess is a large part of it is the thermodynamics of the situations. The very thing that makes cars so lethal in summer (well insulated, absorbing large amounts of solar energy through windows) is a benefit in the winter. Cars probably cool down slower than they heat up. Plus even though they shouldn't, many/ most parents put kids in car seats wearing coats, further insulating the child.

Look at it this way- Lets say a person spends one hour in a car in a parking lot that changed 40 degrees from room temperature. In the summer that is 112 degrees, which can be lethal quickly to a child. In the winter that is 32 degrees- still potentially lethal, but at a much slower rate. It also reached 112 much faster than it reached 32, meaning more time at extreme temps. Plus in the summer you add the additional aspect of dehydration due to heavy sweating.
Do you think the total number of kids "forgotten" is the same in all months but we don't hear about the ones that survive because they aren't reported to the state, they are reported but it is handled as a child neglect case, or the news doesn't catch wind of it?

I'm trying to square how, if it is distraction and parental alienation due to not caring for them when they are awake, that there are more instances in certain months.

If there are not then we need to figure out what the cooler months and cold months do to parents that makes them not forget that doesn't happen in the hot months.
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Old 05-23-2018, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Do you think the total number of kids "forgotten" is the same in all months but we don't hear about the ones that survive because they aren't reported to the state, they are reported but it is handled as a child neglect case, or the news doesn't catch wind of it?
I'm not sure about the total numbers being similar but if I had to guess I would say it is probably consistent.

I think a big part of that is there has correctly been a lot of time, effort, and money spent on the dangers of hot cars and children. So someone dealing with a child found alive in a hot car is more likely to take them to medical attention. A child in a left in a freezing car "just got a little cold" unless they are showing blatantly obvious LBT/ hypothermia symptoms. So fewer medical reports, fewer reports by people who hear about it after the fact, fewer investigations/ intervention, and less media interest for sensationally tragic headlines.
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Old 05-23-2018, 03:37 PM
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I think the summer/winter difference is a combination of how Dave explained it, and what Cat Herder said:

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My personal opinion is that families have many more scheduled activities to juggle in warmer months than in colder ones. Sports, end of school activities/testing pressures, camps, recitals, etc.

Add to that the commercial focus on family time and photo op holiday gatherings keep the parents' attention more on the kids during the colder months.
People do forget their kids in the winter too, but probably not quite as often, and there would be more time to be discovered before it's too late.
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Old 05-23-2018, 04:06 PM
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Do you think the total number of kids "forgotten" is the same in all months but we don't hear about the ones that survive because they aren't reported to the state, they are reported but it is handled as a child neglect case, or the news doesn't catch wind of it?

I'm trying to square how, if it is distraction and parental alienation due to not caring for them when they are awake, that there are more instances in certain months.

If there are not then we need to figure out what the cooler months and cold months do to parents that makes them not forget that doesn't happen in the hot months.
I have lived in Texas and North Dakota. I feel like these incidents happen throughout the year, but are reported more i the summer because, as Dave said, it is much easier to die from the heat in a car, versus the cold.

When I lived in Texas, the minute you turn the car off, it is a LITERAL sauna. It heats up so fast and since it takes less than 10 degrees to have some serious effects on the body, it is just a really quick event and generally leads to death, which is then reported. In ND, the car can get cold pretty quick, but we also dress in layers, and while car seat safety says you should not ave a coat on, I think a large majority of parents keep the coat on when buckled in. The extra layers, insulation of the car, and the fact that your body has to drop temp by quite a bit (50-60 degrees I think) to have fatal impact makes me think it happens just as frequently, but is not reported. Either the parent figures it out and obviously does not report, or teh fact that it is not fatal, leads to a charge of neglect and it is tossed in with the other stats.

I would like to see the stats by state and month. I wonder if states with winter weather have lower stats. My reasoning is that when you drive in snow and ice, you have to actively participate in the drive, so you engage your brain much more. In states where weather is not a factor, it is much easier to shift into "autopilot". You don't need to engage your brain as much. If you have ever driven somewhere and not really remembered the drive because you were thinking of other things (daydreaming, aka dissociation), it is an example of what I am talking about in my previous post. Your brain is doing what it has done a thousand times before and that is why no alarm is triggered. In ND, you better be paying attention and engaging your brain when you drive, because otherwise you end up in the ditch or worse.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:59 AM
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...and yet another one...

http://abc13.com/baby-dies-after-fat...truck/3515858/
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Old 05-24-2018, 06:18 AM
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Photos and stories of the actual children. Scroll through to Heat Stroke. There are many categories of auto related deaths and near misses. - https://www.kidsandcars.org/child-stories/
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Photos and stories of the actual children. Scroll through to Heat Stroke. There are many categories of auto related deaths and near misses. - https://www.kidsandcars.org/child-stories/
https://www.kidsandcars.org/child_story/bryce-balfour/

well the first one is awful.

Mom takes sick lethargic baby to daycare without having any contact with him before leaving the house. On the phone while driving. Baby "dressed warmly". Car seat not positioned in middle of back seat. Provider calls cell phone but phone not checked. And on and on

I'm having a hard time believing her story. Very hard.
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:28 AM
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https://www.kidsandcars.org/child_story/bryce-balfour/

well the first one is awful.

Mom takes sick lethargic baby to daycare without having any contact with him before leaving the house. On the phone while driving. Baby "dressed warmly". Car seat not positioned in middle of back seat. Provider calls cell phone but phone not checked. And on and on

I'm having a hard time believing her story. Very hard.
ALL the stories are hard to read. Mostly because you know how it ends.. and because it really is hard to wrap your head around something you just can't wrap your head around as logical.

I read the one under Heat Strokes (Jenna..no picture..just a black background with a white angel) and her mom does a REALLY good job of explaining how her brain simply over wrote her intentions. Heartbreaking though...

Another one I read one there was the one where the mom left her kids playing outside and went inside and fell asleep. The kids some how got inside the care and couldn't get out and died. The mom was ultimately charged because her version of what happened didn't make sense.

Ugh, regardless of the circumstances they are all heartbreaking.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 05-24-2018 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:37 AM
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I read the one under Heat Strokes (Jenna..no picture..just a black background with a white angel) and her mom does a REALLY good job of explaining how her brain simply over wrote her intentions. Heartbreaking though...
This one literally had me hyperventilating. I feel so sorry that this happens. For the kids, for the parent who made the mistake and the parent who didn't.....for the grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, friends, caregivers....it's so so tragic
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:32 AM
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https://www.kidsandcars.org/child_st...yn-paige-ryan/

This little one made it to the sitter, then the sitter left her in the car. They don't clearly spell it out, I found the rest of the story here: http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/7...t-alone-in-car and https://www.journalscene.com/archive...23e2b8371.html

The babysitter moved to Wyoming and she never faced criminal charges.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:46 AM
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Just to add:

It is also harder in the winter for your body to go into hypothermia because your body temperature stays relatively high and the temperature inside a car would never get that cold to not bring on major shivering which elevates body temps enough to keep you alive. It is just so much harder to die of hypothermia in a shelter in winter....remember Leo’s character climbing inside a horse in the Revenant during a snow storm.

Lots of great points made here about kids today and I agree with nannyde idea of parents having alarms on their phones. My husband has an alarm every day telling him to pick up the kids off the bus. It has a double alarm safety so it goes off 30 minutes before and then 5 minutes before. It is so easy to set this up!
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
https://www.kidsandcars.org/child_story/bryce-balfour/

well the first one is awful.

Mom takes sick lethargic baby to daycare without having any contact with him before leaving the house. On the phone while driving. Baby "dressed warmly". Car seat not positioned in middle of back seat. Provider calls cell phone but phone not checked. And on and on

I'm having a hard time believing her story. Very hard.
It really is a hard one to read. I had to read it a few times, there were so many issues.

The previous day she forgot to pick up the oldest and went home. "Now it is important to note for routine sake that on my way home from work on Wednesday, I picked up Bryce and arrived at home realizing that I hadn’t picked up Jarrett. Simply because it was a change in our routine."

The provider was not told to call her work number, just her personal cell. "I answered calls on my work phone and work cell phone as I normally left my personal cell phone in my purse. People close to me knew to call the work phones if they really needed to get in contact with me. Around 2, I picked up my personal cell phone to get a number out of it and saw I had a missed call."

I can't imagine what the provider felt. The story never addresses it. She did call, the child might have been saved, but she was given incomplete contact information.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:57 PM
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Even happening here in Canada.
https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ne...gating/102217/
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:08 PM
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It is disheartening to know there will be a couple to a few a week until November.

Every year.

Next year, too.
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:12 PM
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Whats disturbing about this is that it isn’t even super hot here yet, we are still in spring time weather
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:29 PM
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Whats disturbing about this is that it isn’t even super hot here yet, we are still in spring time weather
I know. As temperatures rise, deaths will be quicker, and therefore more often.

I know if I EVER see a child or animal in a car alone and it looks like they're getting hot, I'd just smash a window. If the child or animal looks ok, I'd wait by the car for a bit or go inside to have someone paged, depending where the car is. I'd never just walk away and assume someone will be right back out.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:16 PM
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I don't feel bad. Only because I feel many of these were on purpose. I've known many dopey people. Some even on drugs and alcohol. Yet, these people never forgot their kids in a hot car.

By the way, I had a mom do this and I called the police. By where I live, there is a parking lot for a big store. It's visible from where I am but not next door. The mom was always leaving her foster kids there, but bio kid got dropped off every day. I have a feeling she was trying to use the foster state money on her bio child and neglecting the foster kids.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:50 AM
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I know. As temperatures rise, deaths will be quicker, and therefore more often.

I know if I EVER see a child or animal in a car alone and it looks like they're getting hot, I'd just smash a window. If the child or animal looks ok, I'd wait by the car for a bit or go inside to have someone paged, depending where the car is. I'd never just walk away and assume someone will be right back out.
Don’t quote me on it but I think it is illegal to smash someones window even if there is a dog inside. Not sure anyone would press charges but I did read that even the police can’t smash it open? There was a PSA a few years ago warning about it.
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Old 05-29-2018, 12:05 PM
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Don’t quote me on it but I think it is illegal to smash someones window even if there is a dog inside. Not sure anyone would press charges but I did read that even the police can’t smash it open? There was a PSA a few years ago warning about it.
Legislation is working on that. Scroll up to post 37. They are making it a good Samaritan law.
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Old 05-29-2018, 04:13 PM
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Legislation is working on that. Scroll up to post 37. They are making it a good Samaritan law.
Good samaritan law or not, if I see a child or animal in a car, I would try to find the adult if there is time, but if time is questionable, I'm smashing.

If somehow I ever forgot a child or animal in a car, I would be happy to come back out and find out someone smashed a window because it was getting hot inside. A window isn't that much to replace. I'd rather come out to see a broken window than a dead child or pet.
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:05 AM
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https://www.click2houston.com/news/b...e-deputies-say June 04, 2018

"A 9-month-old baby girl is dead Monday after being left in an unattended vehicle for an extended period of time"

"the parents took the baby girl with them on a round of medical appointments for their other two children and returned around 11 a.m. That's when deputies said they forgot the girl in the vehicle."

"One thought the other parent had brought the child into the house. That wasn't the case," the sheriff said.

After realizing the child was not inside the residence, they went to the vehicle, found the baby and called 911."
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:15 AM
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http://fox59.com/2018/06/04/3-year-o...es-police-say/ JUNE 4, 2018

"Detectives with the Anderson Police Department are investigating the circumstances surrounding the death of a 3-year-old girl who they say may have been inside a car for several hours."

"So far this year, eight hot car deaths have been reported with four others pending coroner confirmation"
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:17 AM
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Legislation is working on that. Scroll up to post 37. They are making it a good Samaritan law.
Lots of states already have Good Samaritan laws, don't they? Vermont does.

Here's some practical advice I read on it:
http://qr.ae/TUpRop
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:28 AM
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Lots of states already have Good Samaritan laws, don't they? Vermont does.

Here's some practical advice I read on it:
http://qr.ae/TUpRop
There are many laws under the umbrella of "good samaritan". These specific ones are about breaking glass, damage to property.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:00 AM
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There are many laws under the umbrella of "good samaritan". These specific ones are about breaking glass, damage to property.
Yeah; this is the one I'm talking about:
http://www.dogingtonpost.com/good-ne...from-hot-cars/
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:27 AM
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Love how they celebrate that it will save dogs, then casually mentions children.

"Good news for Vermont’s dogs!"

"A new Vermont law that took effect July 1 will shield people from civil liability when they break into a locked vehicle to rescue a child or dog that is in “imminent danger of harm.”

"In addition to protecting citizens that take necessary steps to rescue distressed pets, Vermont prosecutors can also cite the owner for animal cruelty for leaving a dog in a hot car." - No mention of children there, though.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:35 AM
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during the hot weather seasons, I always call (don't text) to parents if they don't show up. I mustn't do it but I always did, do and will do it.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:41 AM
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Love how they celebrate that it will save dogs, then casually mentions children.

"Good news for Vermont’s dogs!"

"A new Vermont law that took effect July 1 will shield people from civil liability when they break into a locked vehicle to rescue a child or dog that is in “imminent danger of harm.”

"In addition to protecting citizens that take necessary steps to rescue distressed pets, Vermont prosecutors can also cite the owner for animal cruelty for leaving a dog in a hot car." - No mention of children there, though.
I noticed that too. It's like dogs can't take care of themselves, but infants can ???

Bad wording or not, it will be nice if that was the case everywhere, though like I posted earlier, it makes no difference to me.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:22 PM
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Jun 7, 2018 - http://www.wyff4.com/article/mother-...-home/21202231

"The mother of a 1-year-old who died after he was left in a car in Greenville County said the child’s grandmother went back inside to get her keys and passed out."
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Old 06-08-2018, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Love how they celebrate that it will save dogs, then casually mentions children.

"Good news for Vermont’s dogs!"

"A new Vermont law that took effect July 1 will shield people from civil liability when they break into a locked vehicle to rescue a child or dog that is in “imminent danger of harm.”

"In addition to protecting citizens that take necessary steps to rescue distressed pets, Vermont prosecutors can also cite the owner for animal cruelty for leaving a dog in a hot car." - No mention of children there, though.
If you're speaking about the article from the Dogington Post, that's probably why. The whole site is about dogs.

And to he!! with the law if I saw a baby, child, dog, or anything living in a hot car in distress, I'd be doing something, even if that meant someone's broken window.
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:31 AM
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If you're speaking about the article from the Dogington Post, that's probably why. The whole site is about dogs.
Ah, good catch. I had a bit of tunnel vision, there.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:32 AM
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I have about a 30-45 minute window before I start calling or texting my daycare parents. If my own kids were in day care I would want someone to start blowing my phone up if the kids weren't dropped off.
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:06 AM
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Jun 20, 2018, 11:21 AM ET


A mother in southern Mississippi has been charged with second-degree murder after her 10-month-old son was left in a hot car and died, authorities said.

The child, Kash Barhonovich, died last Thursday after being left in his mother’s parked car for an unknown length of time outside her home, the Jackson County Sheriff’s Office said Tuesday.

The temperature reached 90 degrees with a heat index of 98 degrees that day.

Kash's death was consistent with hyperthermia -- or having a body temperature greatly above normal -- the preliminary autopsy results show, according to the sheriff's office.

Elizabeth Marie Barhonovich, 28, of Vancleave, Mississippi, was jailed Tuesday without bond on the second-degree murder charge, the sheriff's office said. She made her first court appearance Wednesday morning, without an attorney, and did not enter a plea, the sheriff's office said.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississipp...ry?id=56025306
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:11 AM
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15 to date.

# Date City Temp Name Age

15 6/19/2018 Kingsland, GA 92° Boy (not released) 7 mo

14 6/15/2018 Spartanburg, SC 91° King Trammel 1 yr

13 6/14/2018 Vancleave, MS 89° Kash Barhonovich 10 mo

12 6/9/2018 Crittenden, KY 95° Lillian Danielle Kerr 2 yr

11 6/8/2018 Raleigh, NC 87° Hakeem Mussa 7 mo

10 6/4/2018 Baytown, TX 91° Maria Solorio 8 mo

9 6/3/2018 Anderson, IN 90° Hannah Grace Miller 3 yr

8 5/31/2018 Pelzer, SC 85° Joe Avery James Lockaby 18 mo

7 5/23/2018 East Nashville, TN 90° Katera Barker 1 yr

6 5/16/2018 Eagle Pass, TX 99° Girl 7 mo

5 5/15/2018 Shreveport, LA 91° Addyson Blackburn 6 mo

4 5/10/2018 Chesterfield, VA 83° Girl 5 mo

3 5/10/2018 Chesterfield, VA 83° Boy 5 mo

2 4/3/2018 North Charleston, SC 84° Jack Duggan 10 mo

1 2/28/2018 Miami, FL 81° Damon Cruz 1 yr

http://noheatstroke.org/
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:49 AM
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Tragic. I don't care how/why it happens....it doesn't change the fact that these little lives were lost and that in and of itself is tragic. No other word but tragic.


I wonder how many of the 15 have parents that will be charged...
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:02 PM
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I wonder how many of the 15 have parents that will be charged...
So far I only know of the one in post 83. Second Degree murder.

The stories get buried fast.

I know SC and TN decided not to pursue.

https://www.theindianalawyer.com/art...-hot-car-death

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nashvil...ad-2018-05-26/
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:20 PM
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I have seen several who were charged when their child survived, though. Like these:

https://www.click2houston.com/news/b...pears-in-court
https://www.click2houston.com/news/p...-at-restaurant
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/8...t-parking-lot/
http://abc13.com/mom-charged-after-2...d-car/3381320/
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:28 PM
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So if the kid dies, we feel bad and don't prosecute. But if the kid almost dies, then they are obviously guilty and should be prosecuted. It is the one area where death seems to bring a lesser charge.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:37 PM
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So if the kid dies, we feel bad and don't prosecute. But if the kid almost dies, then they are obviously guilty and should be prosecuted. It is the one area where death seems to bring a lesser charge.
I guess most feel it does not fit into the five objectives? (Retribution, Deterrence, Incapacitation, Rehabilitation, or Restoration)

Our culture does not seem to deal rationally with issues pertaining to children.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:56 PM
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I guess most feel it does not fit into the five objectives? (Retribution, Deterrence, Incapacitation, Rehabilitation, or Restoration)

Our culture does not seem to deal rationally with issues pertaining to children.
Ha! Isn't that the truth! Those "feelings" seem to evolve 10 fold when you involve children.
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:14 AM
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Last evening we had a 2 year old found in her mothers car. It sounds as if mom forgot the little one and didn't drop off at childcare. I'm not totally sure as the story is still being put together.

The mom was arrested and at the last I read is in our country jail. The people who were at the medical area she worked at said her screams were horrifying and nothing that will leave their minds for a long time. They then transported the baby to the ER and same thing-mom was in hysterics and I just can't imagine hearing that.

Mom was a Nurse Practitioner for pediatrics, loved by many, and adored her little one. My heart breaks for her and the comments people are saying make me sooooo angry.

Here is what I don't understand-Most kids talk, talk, talk so wouldn't that keep you alert to the fact you have a child in the back seat of your car?

My heart breaks for this family, the child and everyone that was involved with it last night.
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:21 PM
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I am so sorry to hear that Country Kids.

There are 19, now.

They updated to add:

7 5/18/2018 Andalusia, AL 91° Layla Dees 4 yr

Then the most recent:

18 6/21/2018 Roseburg, OR 81° Remington Engler 21 mo

17 6/20/2018 Willits, CA 80° Chergery Teywoh Lew Mays 18 mo
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:49 PM
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Thank you Cat Herder! This family has been on my mind all day long.

Mom is being charged with Manslaughter from what I have read. The look on her face in the mugshot is of distraught and so much emotion.

People have asked why didn't the daycare call? I'm not sure on the story yet, but I am wondering if mom got called into work, became distracted and forgot baby in back. Daycare wouldn't have been scheduled so there would have been no need to place a call looking for the child.

Auto pilot is a real thing! Last week after class I was to return my text book to the library. Thought about it as I was getting into my car, drove down the parking lot and instead of turning to the library I turned to go home-30 sec after getting into my car. I remembered only after I had gotten home that I still had them and had to run them back out to the college. I could have easily though not remembered and still have them in there.

I am implementing a policy this weekend that children need to be dropped off daily by the same parent at the same time. The reason for this is I have several parents where dad might drop off at one time, or if mom is bring it will be at a different time. So new policy will be same parent at the same time each day. That way no time goes by for when child should or could be here, it is the same each day.
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:39 PM
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Tragic. I don't care how/why it happens....it doesn't change the fact that these little lives were lost and that in and of itself is tragic. No other word but tragic.


I wonder how many of the 15 have parents that will be charged...
The mother of the 7 month old boy from Kingsland Ga. was also charged. Announced today.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgi...e-babys-death_
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:11 AM
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Updated list: 20

20 6/21/2018 Roseburg, OR 81° Remington Engler 21 mo

19 6/20/2018 Willits, CA 80° Chergery Teywoh Lew Mays 18 mo

18 6/19/2018 Kingsland, GA 92° Slade Edison Horne 7 mo

17 6/15/2018 Spartanburg, SC 91° King Trammel 1 yr

16 6/14/2018 Vancleave, MS 89° Kash Barhonovich 10 mo

15 6/9/2018 Crittenden, KY 95° Lillian Danielle Kerr 2 yr

14 6/8/2018 Raleigh, NC 87° Hakeem Mussa 7 mo

13 6/4/2018 Baytown, TX 91° Maria Solorio 8 mo

12 6/3/2018 Anderson, IN 90° Hannah Grace Miller 3 yr

11 5/31/2018 Pelzer, SC 85° Joe Avery James Lockaby 18 mo

10 5/23/2018 East Nashville, TN 90° Katera Barker 1 yr

9 5/18/2018 Andalusia, AL 91° Layla Dees 4 yr

8 5/16/2018 Eagle Pass, TX 99° Girl 7 mo

7 5/15/2018 Shreveport, LA 91° Addyson Blackburn 6 mo

6 5/10/2018 Chesterfield, VA 83° Girl 5 mo

5 5/10/2018 Chesterfield, VA 83° Boy 5 mo

4 4/3/2018 North Charleston, SC 84° Jack Duggan 10 mo

3 3/262018 Superior, AZ 71° Michael Lorenzo Velasquez 2 yr

2 3/262018 Superior, AZ 71° Brooklyn Velasquez 9 mo

1 2/28/2018 Miami, FL 81° Damon Cruz 1 yr
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:22 PM
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I wonder why we don't hear of cold car deaths? Now that the word is out NOT to put your kids coat on in the winter and then put them in a car seat... why aren't parents forgetting their kids in the car when it is cold outside? With the bitterly cold winter we had here in Northern Iowa this last winter, I think a kid would freeze to death in a pretty short amount of time .
On this same train of thought.....

It’s hot here in the summer time.
Summer is sweltering. Often 80-90F (with high humidity) from about mid-May until mid-September and still the numbers aren’t even close even (for just that time period).

Wonder why it’s so much more frequent in the southern half the U.S. than it is in the northern half. I know it happens but just doesn’t seem to be as often.
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:38 AM
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On this same train of thought.....

It’s hot here in the summer time.
Summer is sweltering. Often 80-90F (with high humidity) from about mid-May until mid-September and still the numbers aren’t even close even (for just that time period).

Wonder why it’s so much more frequent in the southern half the U.S. than it is in the northern half. I know it happens but just doesn’t seem to be as often.
Only one in the Northern half of twenty. The Oregon one.

HMMMM

I wonder how that compares to other years.

It's hot in Iowa in the summer and it goes on from May through September.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:04 AM
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Since the death we had here in our town, I know of three more cases of children left in the car in our town but it didn't result in a death (Thankfully)!

One the dad had no idea as when he came out of the store he was screaming at people coming across the parking lot of why they had busted the windows out of his wife's car. The police were also there by this time. I guess when he found out what happened he fell apart.

Another, two children left in the car while parents ran into the store.

The last one I heard of was just his weekend. We have a huge vintage car week every July. On the last night there is a huge cruise. A friend of mine had to call the police as two children were left in one of the cars for 30 min (she timed it I think before calling). The police called, dhs became involved but children were released back to parents and they drove off. The ironic thing, they were yelling at my friend for calling it in (she is a mandated reporter). She said the kiddo's didn't seem scared so it seemed like a regular occurance to them.

You would think after the death of the baby, parents would learn but it seems that we are either so rushed we don't or some parents can't be bothered.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:29 PM
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Another child was left in a car about 2 hours north of me. Dad went into the courthouse to pay a fine and forgot child was in the back of the car.

Thankfully a passerbyer saw the child and broke out the window. When dad came out he was furious with the person till he saw them holding the baby.

So I'm wondering, the people that leave babies in the car that are rescued, will they be held accountable? I haven't read anything with these parents being arrested or anything. So it sounds as if they are able to leave with the child.

Another child died in CA today or yesterday. Got out of the house, and was able to get into the car and couldn't get out. Found hours later deceased. Mother blamed the locks on the door of the house wasn't safe enough to keep child in.
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:59 AM
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Another child was left in a car about 2 hours north of me. Dad went into the courthouse to pay a fine and forgot child was in the back of the car.

Thankfully a passerbyer saw the child and broke out the window. When dad came out he was furious with the person till he saw them holding the baby.

So I'm wondering, the people that leave babies in the car that are rescued, will they be held accountable? I haven't read anything with these parents being arrested or anything. So it sounds as if they are able to leave with the child.

Another child died in CA today or yesterday. Got out of the house, and was able to get into the car and couldn't get out. Found hours later deceased. Mother blamed the locks on the door of the house wasn't safe enough to keep child in.
I think you are right. When the child survives it is up to the the responding officer. Just Culture should really be used, but I don't know how long that would take to trickle to all states.

We are up to 24, now. And we are not done for the summer.

24 7/14/2018 Medina, OH 93° Girl 6 mo
23 7/13/2018 Pembroke Pines, FL 93° Boy 17 mo
22 7/9/2018 Sweetwater, TN 87° Greg Puckett 3 yr
21 7/7/2018 South Sacramento, CA 95° Alejandro Lopez Jr. 2 yr
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