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jokalima 11:53 AM 02-13-2013
What is this exactly? If someone knows, and how it could affect us FHDCP? Really ignorant about this
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Willow 12:29 PM 02-13-2013
Basically means everyone would pay additional taxes to the government and then the government will divvy out "free" childcare to the masses. You know how kindergarten is free? Obama thinks every family should have access to free preschool in the same way.

As far as how it would effect private providers, to participate we'd probably be paid less (exactly like county assistance rates are determined now - most falling way below what any of us actually charge). Choose not to participate and you'll be stuck competing against those who do offer it, and think about it....how many people will choose quality over a free service? While it's fine and dandy to hope or assume most parents would care fact of the matter is the economy is in the crapper and only tanking faster and harder every single day. With the way things are going it's just a matter of time before parents won't have the choice but to accept such free programs just so they can get food on their tables.

I seriously think Obama is trying to run us all straight into the ground just so he can force us all to become more dependent on big government via programs like that.

I jerked my head up from my sewing so fast last night when I heard him spout the words "universal preschool" my neck still hurts today.....


It's an avenue of socialism and the theory is disgusting imho. It definitely won't benefit the children on a mass level.
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Blackcat31 12:55 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Basically means everyone would pay additional taxes to the government and then the government will divvy out "free" childcare to the masses. You know how kindergarten is free? Obama thinks every family should have access to free preschool in the same way.

As far as how it would effect private providers, to participate we'd probably be paid less (exactly like county assistance rates are determined now - most falling way below what any of us actually charge). Choose not to participate and you'll be stuck competing against those who do offer it, and think about it....how many people will choose quality over a free service? While it's fine and dandy to hope or assume most parents would care fact of the matter is the economy is in the crapper and only tanking faster and harder every single day. With the way things are going it's just a matter of time before parents won't have the choice but to accept such free programs just so they can get food on their tables.

I seriously think Obama is trying to run us all straight into the ground just so he can force us all to become more dependent on big government via programs like that.

I jerked my head up from my sewing so fast last night when I heard him spout the words "universal preschool" my neck still hurts today.....


It's an avenue of socialism and the theory is disgusting imho. It definitely won't benefit the children on a mass level.
That is exactly why I am really struggling with this QRIS thing, It is ONLY the beginning of it and already I see the "signs" of forced particpation or being left out in the cold.

The biggest group of parents looking for child care are single parents on some sort of assistance program. Most the families in my community that aren't on some sort of assistance have figured out how to manage child care needs amongst themselves and within the family.

From what I have read about the Parent Aware program, the government is going to give tax breaks/credits to parents who choose programs that participate so we know which programs are going to fill the fastest.
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blandino 01:06 PM 02-13-2013
Oklahoma was mentioned in the state of the union address for it's "universal preschool". What we have is a statewide 4 year old program, that is part of the elementary schools. This coming school year they have extended it from half-day to full-day.

I would hope that is what the president is meaning when he speaks of universal preschool. And since he mentioned my state's program - I think he is.

I absolutely dislike the all day, state provided, preschool. And I hate the idea of it funneling into the younger children and private childcare. And this is coming from a HUGE Obama supporter.

Some schools in our state have 3 year old programs and I loathe the idea. However, parents (even my middle/ upper-middle class clientele) gobble the idea up. They love it. I have only had one mom who really doesn't want to take advantage of it (the 4 year old program).

I just think its a lot of school and structured learning for ones that little. Also, the shortened/elimination of nap time that has been broughten about by Pre-k & full day Kindergarten is a big concern of mine, but that's a whole other issue
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mom2many 01:10 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Basically means everyone would pay additional taxes to the government and then the government will divvy out "free" childcare to the masses. You know how kindergarten is free? Obama thinks every family should have access to free preschool in the same way.

As far as how it would effect private providers, to participate we'd probably be paid less (exactly like county assistance rates are determined now - most falling way below what any of us actually charge). Choose not to participate and you'll be stuck competing against those who do offer it, and think about it....how many people will choose quality over a free service? While it's fine and dandy to hope or assume most parents would care fact of the matter is the economy is in the crapper and only tanking faster and harder every single day. With the way things are going it's just a matter of time before parents won't have the choice but to accept such free programs just so they can get food on their tables.

I seriously think Obama is trying to run us all straight into the ground just so he can force us all to become more dependent on big government via programs like that.

I jerked my head up from my sewing so fast last night when I heard him spout the words "universal preschool" my neck still hurts today.....


It's an avenue of socialism and the theory is disgusting imho. It definitely won't benefit the children on a mass level.
I totally agree with you!

On a side note, we took our car in to get a smog check yesterday and the mechanics are going to be rated in a "star" program soon too.

It's scary to me where things are headed...
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Binkybobo 01:17 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Basically means everyone would pay additional taxes to the government and then the government will divvy out "free" childcare to the masses. You know how kindergarten is free? Obama thinks every family should have access to free preschool in the same way.

As far as how it would effect private providers, to participate we'd probably be paid less (exactly like county assistance rates are determined now - most falling way below what any of us actually charge). Choose not to participate and you'll be stuck competing against those who do offer it, and think about it....how many people will choose quality over a free service? While it's fine and dandy to hope or assume most parents would care fact of the matter is the economy is in the crapper and only tanking faster and harder every single day. With the way things are going it's just a matter of time before parents won't have the choice but to accept such free programs just so they can get food on their tables.

I seriously think Obama is trying to run us all straight into the ground just so he can force us all to become more dependent on big government via programs like that.

I jerked my head up from my sewing so fast last night when I heard him spout the words "universal preschool" my neck still hurts today.....
It's an avenue of socialism and the theory is disgusting imho. It definitely won't benefit the children on a mass level.
LOL
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MarinaVanessa 01:28 PM 02-13-2013
I'm really sorry to all of those Obama supporters out there but I think Obama's an idiot ... Maybe I'm just tired of hearing all of his promises and then him doing the complete opposite later but I think he's doing a horrible job as president.

I mean, did you hear what he said?!?! Does he hear what he is saying?!?! He proposed almost 30 new government programs and then said that it wouldn't increase the deficit. How does that even remotely make sense? Especially when the government is already going downhill and the deficit grows.
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wahmof3 01:39 PM 02-13-2013
OMG! This explains why my state is pushing licensed providers to get a preschool degree (as of right now a must by 2020) interesting!!!!
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Willow 01:39 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I'm really sorry to all of those Obama supporters out there but I think Obama's an idiot ... Maybe I'm just tired of hearing all of his promises and then him doing the complete opposite later but I think he's doing a horrible job as president.

I mean, did you hear what he said?!?! Does he hear what he is saying?!?! He proposed almost 30 new government programs and then said that it wouldn't increase the deficit. How does that even remotely make sense? Especially when the government is already going downhill and the deficit grows.



I was so disgusted that he didn't hardly touch on unemployment or the deficit at all! Just spouted on and on about all these programs that are magically not going to cost us a dime!

I felt like I was in the twilight zone whenever people would stand up and clap......


On another note, the 102 year old woman who voted for him gets the longest standing ovation in the history of State of the Union addresses and the police officer who gets shot a dozen times in the line of duty gets crickets was BULL.

If that wasn't intentional brain washing bologna I don't know what is.......
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wahmof3 01:39 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I'm really sorry to all of those Obama supporters out there but I think Obama's an idiot ... Maybe I'm just tired of hearing all of his promises and then him doing the complete opposite later but I think he's doing a horrible job as president.

I mean, did you hear what he said?!?! Does he hear what he is saying?!?! He proposed almost 30 new government programs and then said that it wouldn't increase the deficit. How does that even remotely make sense? Especially when the government is already going downhill and the deficit grows.
right on
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mom2many 01:53 PM 02-13-2013
I was on the elliptical at the gym last night when he was on tv and did twice the workout trying to blow off steam!
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Binkybobo 01:59 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:



I was so disgusted that he didn't hardly touch on unemployment or the deficit at all! Just spouted on and on about all these programs that are magically not going to cost us a dime!

I felt like I was in the twilight zone whenever people would stand up and clap......


On another note, the 102 year old woman who voted for him gets the longest standing ovation in the history of State of the Union addresses and the police officer who gets shot a dozen times in the line of duty gets crickets was BULL.

If that wasn't intentional brain washing bologna I don't know what is.......
It just doesn't make sense to me. i cannot understand how it would benefit him for us to al be un state funded programs yet he keeps pushing them. Sure it would be great if ALL preschoolers were taught by degreed teachers. But is it important? No. I never stepped one foot in anyone's preschool as a child. Sesame street and Barney were my educators before prek and kinder. I was a straight A student. The more he proposes the more confused I get. I just don't see the point. I'm so confused that I can't even make an educated argument. I'm just all discombobulated with my mouth open like WTH? He meddles in things that are barely important instead of focusing on the real problems. Einstein didn't have universal preschool.. What in the world is going on? My 4 year od stays at home with mommy at no expense to any tax payer. She is more than ready for kindergarten.
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daycarediva 02:06 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I'm really sorry to all of those Obama supporters out there but I think Obama's an idiot ... Maybe I'm just tired of hearing all of his promises and then him doing the complete opposite later but I think he's doing a horrible job as president.

I mean, did you hear what he said?!?! Does he hear what he is saying?!?! He proposed almost 30 new government programs and then said that it wouldn't increase the deficit. How does that even remotely make sense? Especially when the government is already going downhill and the deficit grows.
My sentiments exactly!

As a pp said, the state is pushing degrees (I have an associate in ECE and am pursuing a bachelors). Now I know why! BS!
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DCBlessings27 02:15 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Binkybobo:
It just doesn't make sense to me. i cannot understand how it would benefit him for us to al be un state funded programs yet he keeps pushing them. Sure it would be great if ALL preschoolers were taught by degreed teachers. But is it important? No. I never stepped one foot in anyone's preschool as a child. Sesame street and Barney were my educators before prek and kinder. I was a straight A student. The more he proposes the more confused I get. I just don't see the point. I'm so confused that I can't even make an educated argument. I'm just all discombobulated with my mouth open like WTH? He meddles in things that are barely important instead of focusing on the real problems. Einstein didn't have universal preschool.. What in the world is going on? My 4 year od stays at home with mommy at no expense to any tax payer. She is more than ready for kindergarten.
My dad never attended kindergarten (because the school didn't offer it) much less preschool. Does this diminish his intelligence? No.

I don't agree with this universal preschool idea or what it will do to the economy.
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MarinaVanessa 02:19 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:



I was so disgusted that he didn't hardly touch on unemployment or the deficit at all! Just spouted on and on about all these programs that are magically not going to cost us a dime!

I felt like I was in the twilight zone whenever people would stand up and clap......


On another note, the 102 year old woman who voted for him gets the longest standing ovation in the history of State of the Union addresses and the police officer who gets shot a dozen times in the line of duty gets crickets was BULL.

If that wasn't intentional brain washing bologna I don't know what is.......
Nope, not hardly any time on those issues but he did mention how raising the minimum wage was going to help the economy. Really?!?! Are you listening to yourself?!?! Does he not realize that businesses will raise prices to accommodate this and that small businesses will suffer from this while inflation goes up meaning that goods will go up in cost which will in return affect us all? I mean really. Businesses already have started to reduce the number of FT employees because of the costs and prefer to have PT employees .... great... so if the minimum wage goes up now employees have a higher wage while they work all 4 hours of their PT shift. I can understand if he is HOPING that this will work but he literally practically GUARANTEES that it will . It just doesn't make any sense to me, none at all.

*All coming from the one that hates to talk about politics in an open forum *sigh*
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Country Kids 02:19 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by DCBlessings27:
My dad never attended kindergarten (because the school didn't offer it) much less preschool. Does this diminish his intelligence? No.

I don't agree with this universal preschool idea or what it will do to the economy.

I feel the same way on the whole "Getting a Child Ready for Kindergarten" issue.
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Twinvillageiowa 02:22 PM 02-13-2013
We are Obama supporters all the way. As a duel income poverty level family, we would not be able to survive without a lot of these programs.
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spud912 02:27 PM 02-13-2013
Wow, I didn't watch it last night but now wish I did. If he enacts free preschool that basically puts me out of business. What parents are going to pay me to provide activities for their children (and I cater to the 2-5 year old group) when they can get it for free! I should really start looking into going to school for nursing......oh I forgot, he's tapping into the healthcare industry as well! Agh, there's no escaping him!
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Twinvillageiowa 02:32 PM 02-13-2013
Before I duck out of this thread, because I really have nothing nice to say, if you ever are at poverty level I hope you have no intentions of using food stamps, Medicaid, daycare assistance vouchers, TANF, school lunch assistance or WIC. And I certainly hope you aren't on the food program, don't drive on city streets and don't use public transportation!
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kathiemarie 02:40 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Twinvillageiowa:
We are Obama supporters all the way. As a duel income poverty level family, we would not be able to survive without a lot of these programs.
You are the type of families that programs should be inplace for. NOT for the people who CHOSE to get iphones, manis/pedis, gym memberships, eat out at NICE resturants etc. If someone has cut expesses to the bare bones and needs help then yes we as a nation need to help. But I for one is SICK of helping people who do not help themselves!

A universal pre-school? Cripes, our public school system can't even get it right with what they do now.
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Binkybobo 02:58 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Twinvillageiowa:
Before I duck out of this thread, because I really have nothing nice to say, if you ever are at poverty level I hope you have no intentions of using food stamps, Medicaid, daycare assistance vouchers, TANF, school lunch assistance or WIC. And I certainly hope you aren't on the food program, don't drive on city streets and don't use public transportation!
This is not about any of those programs. It is about a completely unnecessary program that will put people out of work and use up funds that we really don't have. State vouchers keep childcare providers at work. Universa childcare is pointess and will ony hurt the economy in so many ways. I'm not so much worried about losing my job as I am worried about the fact that it is POINTLESS!
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Willow 02:58 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Twinvillageiowa:
Before I duck out of this thread, because I really have nothing nice to say, if you ever are at poverty level I hope you have no intentions of using food stamps, Medicaid, daycare assistance vouchers, TANF, school lunch assistance or WIC. And I certainly hope you aren't on the food program, don't drive on city streets and don't use public transportation!
I was definitely poverty level when I was going through my divorce.

We qualified for every single program under the sun but you know what? That didn't mean we *NEEDED* them.

Ability to qualify does not equate to NEED.

The only program I utilized was school lunch assistance. Although my kids qualified for free lunch I insisted on at least paying the discounted rate. I used it only because my income barely covered the bills my abusive, squandering ex left me buried in and I wanted to make sure there was at least food in my kids bellies. I had paid in via taxes for the previous dozen years or so felt that was fair.

Once I got back on my feet I immediately started paying the full rate again even though I could have taken advantage for the whole rest of the year.


Taking a whole lot more may have made my life easier but it wouldn't have been right. I could have taken cash assistance and kept our satellite tv. I could have taken food stamps and used what little grocery money I had to go to McDonalds instead of eating Ramen 2-3 nights a week. I learned to shop for everything else at thrift stores. To do otherwise would have been wrong. Sacrifices may be uncomfortable, but that's life. You do the best you can and if that means having less sometimes so be it. If you NEED the help that's one thing, but it's another entirely to take advantage when you don't in the true sense of the word.

Be glad you at least have your husband to pool your resources. I had no one but myself to fund my family of 3 and I did it just fine on my own (by my accounts anyway).
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Twinvillageiowa 04:06 PM 02-13-2013
This came across as really angry and bitter and like calling me out and saying I don't need these programs.

Originally Posted by Willow:
I was definitely poverty level when I was going through my divorce.

We qualified for every single program under the sun but you know what? That didn't mean we *NEEDED* them.

Ability to qualify does not equate to NEED.

The only program I utilized was school lunch assistance. Although my kids qualified for free lunch I insisted on at least paying the discounted rate. I used it only because my income barely covered the bills my abusive, squandering ex left me buried in and I wanted to make sure there was at least food in my kids bellies. I had paid in via taxes for the previous dozen years or so felt that was fair.

Once I got back on my feet I immediately started paying the full rate again even though I could have taken advantage for the whole rest of the year.


Taking a whole lot more may have made my life easier but it wouldn't have been right. I could have taken cash assistance and kept our satellite tv. I could have taken food stamps and used what little grocery money I had to go to McDonalds instead of eating Ramen 2-3 nights a week. I learned to shop for everything else at thrift stores. To do otherwise would have been wrong. Sacrifices may be uncomfortable, but that's life. You do the best you can and if that means having less sometimes so be it. If you NEED the help that's one thing, but it's another entirely to take advantage when you don't in the true sense of the word.

Be glad you at least have your husband to pool your resources. I had no one but myself to fund my family of 3 and I did it just fine on my own (by my accounts anyway).

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daycarediva 04:16 PM 02-13-2013
I have been a dual income poverty level family. I had a kid at 16, dh was 19 and we BARELY made it. We qualified for everything, we didn't get it, we got SECOND JOBS. Sorry, but everyone who DOES qualify doesn't NEED them, they chose to use these programs. Most of the programs enable people to continue using them and not improve their situation.

In the last 13 years since my daughters birth, my dh and I paid all of our bills ourselves and on time, had 3 more children, paid off tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills (had a preemie and dd has kidney disease). purchased cars, improved our credit rating from 400-750, purchased a home, sold it and purchased another using equity as down payment, and more than quadrupled our income by simultaneously starting a business and working FT jobs.

THIS IS AMERICA. If you can't better yourself here, you couldn't MAKE it in other countries.

I believe that SOME of the entitlement programs are necessary, but I think they are ridiculously overused and extremely poorly managed/run. (like EVERYTHING the government touches!)
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Blackcat31 04:20 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I have been a dual income poverty level family. I had a kid at 16, dh was 19 and we BARELY made it. We qualified for everything, we didn't get it, we got SECOND JOBS. Sorry, but everyone who DOES qualify doesn't NEED them, they chose to use these programs. Most of the programs enable people to continue using them and not improve their situation.

In the last 13 years since my daughters birth, my dh and I paid all of our bills ourselves and on time, had 3 more children, paid off tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills (had a preemie and dd has kidney disease). purchased cars, improved our credit rating from 400-750, purchased a home, sold it and purchased another using equity as down payment, and more than quadrupled our income by simultaneously starting a business and working FT jobs.

THIS IS AMERICA. If you can't better yourself here, you couldn't MAKE it in other countries.

I believe that SOME of the entitlement programs are necessary, but I think they are ridiculously overused and extremely poorly managed/run. (like EVERYTHING the government touches!)


I have learned alot of things while being a child care provider but the one of the biggest things I have learned is that 3/4 of money issues aren't about lack of income but lack of ability to budget and prioritize.
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daycarediva 04:50 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:


I have learned alot of things while being a child care provider but the one of the biggest things I have learned is that 3/4 of money issues aren't about lack of income but lack of ability to budget and prioritize.
2 thumbs up for that BC!

I had a dcm ask me if she applied for daycare assistance would I be willing to accept it. I said sure, she turned in her paystubs and was denied. She makes almost as much as I do, only has one child and ALREADY receives housing assistance!

I have thousands more examples, but I totally agree!
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Michael 04:52 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I have been a dual income poverty level family. I had a kid at 16, dh was 19 and we BARELY made it. We qualified for everything, we didn't get it, we got SECOND JOBS. Sorry, but everyone who DOES qualify doesn't NEED them, they chose to use these programs. Most of the programs enable people to continue using them and not improve their situation.

In the last 13 years since my daughters birth, my dh and I paid all of our bills ourselves and on time, had 3 more children, paid off tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills (had a preemie and dd has kidney disease). purchased cars, improved our credit rating from 400-750, purchased a home, sold it and purchased another using equity as down payment, and more than quadrupled our income by simultaneously starting a business and working FT jobs.

THIS IS AMERICA. If you can't better yourself here, you couldn't MAKE it in other countries.

I believe that SOME of the entitlement programs are necessary, but I think they are ridiculously overused and extremely poorly managed/run. (like EVERYTHING the government touches!)
Great story, well said.
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CedarCreek 05:01 PM 02-13-2013
I am an Obama supporter but I agree that this is an unnecessary program and that his state of the union address did not touch on key issues that I wanted to hear about.
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Willow 05:21 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Twinvillageiowa:
This came across as really angry and bitter and like calling me out and saying I don't need these programs.
I didn't mean it like that at all. Just shared my firsthand experience with it is all.

Your post to me implied that people living in poverty need those programs to get by. I disagree with that because I've been there and I didn't. I'm not saying none of them are needed by some people, but most don't really need all the help they get and just because they qualify on paper for government assistance doesn't mean they should take it.


If they would be utilized by only the people that actually needed them in the true sense of the word and didn't stay on them longer than they had to I truly believe our country would be much better off.
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Willow 05:22 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:


I have learned alot of things while being a child care provider but the one of the biggest things I have learned is that 3/4 of money issues aren't about lack of income but lack of ability to budget and prioritize.
Exactly!
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Kaddidle Care 05:43 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Basically means everyone would pay additional taxes to the government and then the government will divvy out "free" childcare to the masses. You know how kindergarten is free? Obama thinks every family should have access to free preschool in the same way.
NOTHING is FREE - it is paid by the property owners of the town. This too will be paid by the taxpayers.

I sure hope those that voted for this man are happy. I still think the whole election was rigged. There aren't very many people that I've talked to that voted for him.

Then again, my dear friend who votes only for her party did and was complaining to me about how her Co-Pay went up. Yeah...

I love my friend but she's not the sharpest tool.. could be all the meds she's on and guess what? It's not so cheap to be on them anymore.

You know how Tax Freedom Day is April 16th? Well soon it will be November 16th. The American people are becoming enslaved to their debt and taxes.

Forgot to say.. it's not "for the children".
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nanglgrl 05:48 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Exactly!
I watched one child full time for all of 2012. The mother paid a whopping $620 for childcare and Child Care Assistance Paid the rest. She makes over $14,000 a year and is getting about $6000 as a tax refund. She dresses her child in brand name items, has her hair done, goes to concerts and has the newest phone. Its ridiculous. I see this all of the time and it's the main reason I decided to start being choosy about accepting state assistance. It was getting to the point where I was going to say something that I regretted.
Of course there are plenty of others that are using the assistance to go to college and they work at the same time. I've seen plenty of people that deserve a little help but it seems that there should be some sort of cap. It seems at the least their tax returns should be taken to pay back what was paid out on their behalf.
The worst part here is they don't give any sort of counseling on budgeting to these parents and there is a crazy "drop off" point when you make a little more money. One parent I know had $1 an hour raise, so a whopping $160 a month before taxes. Before her raise her childcare for 3 children was being paid for completely by the state (no copay), after the raise she made too much so now she had a $1500 daycare bill each month. She quit her job.
I don't even know what to say as far as Universal Childcare. I just feel sorry for these kids. Are my eventual great grandchildren going to start some sort of infant academy shortly after delivery?
Kids need to be kids and as long as they are with some one who cares about them they are getting what they need. I think the problem stems from so many parents out there who can't/don't parent. It seems more and more I hear parents say, "I can't handle them at the grocery store", "she wouldn't go back to bed when I told her", "She refused to wear her coat".....the fact that these parents don't realize that they are the boss and they are supposed to be raising their child to be a productive member of society is the root of the problem in our society and nothing can be fixed until lack of parenting is tackled. Children are becoming bragging rights and an accessory and it's so very sad.
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Sugar Magnolia 06:20 PM 02-13-2013
I support Obama, and my personal and business taxes have gone down during his administration. My property values have gone up. My unemployed nephew has gotten a good job. I am looking forward to pursuing health insurance soon. So no complaints here about our President. I too did want to hear more about immigration, unemployment and bringing manufacturing back to the US.

Now.....on to the topic at hand:

I happily accept state subsidized childcare vouchers, and my state allows (encourages us, actually) to charge subsidy parents the difference between my published rate and their rate. In other words, accepting subsidy does not hurt my bottom line, and actually brings me joy to know I am helping someone by accepting it. My place is quite pricey, most
(if not all) of other pricey places refuse subsidy.

I do not like the current free preschool for 4 year olds, and I do not support it for 3 yeaoldsYes, it hurts my business. However, if I can figure out a way to participate without it meaning a pay-cut, I WILL! When the market changes, I feel it is my.duty to adapt, or be left behind. I don't count on any politician to make the right decisions. I count on myself. I don't want to be the Blackberry of the child care industry, I want to be the Iphone.

I don't think this happen on a federal level. It might on a state level. But I doubt it. So until it does, I am not going to get my panties in a wad over it, I got bigger things to worry about.
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Willow 06:29 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Kaddidle Care:
NOTHING is FREE - it is paid by the property owners of the town. This too will be paid by the taxpayers.


That's why I put free in quotations
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saved4always 06:38 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I'm really sorry to all of those Obama supporters out there but I think Obama's an idiot ... Maybe I'm just tired of hearing all of his promises and then him doing the complete opposite later but I think he's doing a horrible job as president.

I mean, did you hear what he said?!?! Does he hear what he is saying?!?! He proposed almost 30 new government programs and then said that it wouldn't increase the deficit. How does that even remotely make sense? Especially when the government is already going downhill and the deficit grows.
Absolutely agree with this. You can't give new handouts without bringing in more money...meaning more taxes. Lovely.
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Kaddidle Care 06:45 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:


That's why I put free in quotations
Ahh - but you didn't in the Kindergarten part. LOL
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itlw8 07:20 PM 02-13-2013
while I do believe every child should be able to attend a high quality preschool program at this point where would the money come from. Head Start is not providing services to all those who need it and qualify because there is not enough money.

Universal preschool would be provided through public schools usually so 9 months out of the year. It would mean you would need a BA in education. And except for summer and christmas break we would only be able to care for infant /toddlers. Me personally I will get out of the business.
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kathiemarie 08:55 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by itlw8:
while I do believe every child should be able to attend a high quality preschool program at this point where would the money come from. Head Start is not providing services to all those who need it and qualify because there is not enough money.

Universal preschool would be provided through public schools usually so 9 months out of the year. It would mean you would need a BA in education. And except for summer and christmas break we would only be able to care for infant /toddlers. Me personally I will get out of the business.
From what I understand, at least in California, Headstart is a epic failure.
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itlw8 09:47 PM 02-13-2013
Originally Posted by kathiemarie:
From what I understand, at least in California, Headstart is a epic failure.
I would call Head Start a success in our area. But funding was cut last year and many children did not recieve services. Why would you call it a failure?
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jokalima 09:50 PM 02-13-2013
Wow! did not expected this when I asked LOL Don't have much to say, but I am reading and try to form my own opinion about it, was talking to my husband about before reading all the replies, and basically what i am reading goes along with what I had in mind. Interesting, keep posting opinions
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MN Mom 07:30 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Twinvillageiowa:
Before I duck out of this thread, because I really have nothing nice to say, if you ever are at poverty level I hope you have no intentions of using food stamps, Medicaid, daycare assistance vouchers, TANF, school lunch assistance or WIC. And I certainly hope you aren't on the food program, don't drive on city streets and don't use public transportation!
I AM at poverty level. We have been for YEARS. I have never...NOT ONCE taken advantage of the "free" programs to survive. Last year we made 25K (that is including our tax return income). I have 4 children and a mortgage on a 165K property. My husband and I are able to put food on the table every night for our children. They have clothes, a roof over their heads, and a mom and dad who LOVE them very much. So please don't come here and spout that bull crap about NEEDING it to survive. I don't NEED it. Would my life be less stressful? Yes. But I wouldn't have the motivation I have now to work HARD every day to provide for my family and build my online business. We work HARD and save so that we can do fun things like vacations with the kids, even if they aren't the most luxurious. Welfare and subsidized programs are good for those who really really NEED it, but the definition of a need vs a want is SOOOOOO screwed up in this country it makes me PUKE.
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MN Mom 07:33 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
Great story, well said.
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I have been a dual income poverty level family. I had a kid at 16, dh was 19 and we BARELY made it. We qualified for everything, we didn't get it, we got SECOND JOBS. Sorry, but everyone who DOES qualify doesn't NEED them, they chose to use these programs. Most of the programs enable people to continue using them and not improve their situation.

In the last 13 years since my daughters birth, my dh and I paid all of our bills ourselves and on time, had 3 more children, paid off tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills (had a preemie and dd has kidney disease). purchased cars, improved our credit rating from 400-750, purchased a home, sold it and purchased another using equity as down payment, and more than quadrupled our income by simultaneously starting a business and working FT jobs.

THIS IS AMERICA. If you can't better yourself here, you couldn't MAKE it in other countries.

I believe that SOME of the entitlement programs are necessary, but I think they are ridiculously overused and extremely poorly managed/run. (like EVERYTHING the government touches!)
Well said daycarediva!
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Blackcat31 07:40 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by MN Mom:
I AM at poverty level. We have been for YEARS. I have never...NOT ONCE taken advantage of the "free" programs to survive. Last year we made 25K (that is including our tax return income). I have 4 children and a mortgage on a 165K property. My husband and I are able to put food on the table every night for our children. They have clothes, a roof over their heads, and a mom and dad who LOVE them very much. So please don't come here and spout that bull crap about NEEDING it to survive. I don't NEED it. Would my life be less stressful? Yes. But I wouldn't have the motivation I have now to work HARD every day to provide for my family and build my online business. We work HARD and save so that we can do fun things like vacations with the kids, even if they aren't the most luxurious. Welfare and subsidized programs are good for those who really really NEED it, but the definition of a need vs a want is SOOOOOO screwed up in this country it makes me PUKE.


A few years ago, my DH and I decided to adopt a family and do something nice for the holidays for them. We decided we were going to give them all the trimming for a holiday meal and a few spending dollars for gas or gifts for their children.

My DH and I started out dirt poor doing everything ourselves without the help of anyone other than our own need to survive. We wanted to pay our good fortune forward.

When push came to shove and we were ready to start buying stuff for our "care package" we were startled to realize that we couldn't really find a truly needy family.

Oh, don't get me wrong, we knew lots of families that struggled and were maybe on assistance or really had a hard time paying their bills but when we really looked at them we realized all of them smoked, had newer cars, went to the casino's, dressed in name brand clothing, had cell phones and tattoos etc etc

So in all honesty, we really couldn't find a truly needy family.

I KNOW there are families out there who are struggling and really really do need the help.....but I didn't have any idea where to find them.
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Country Kids 07:55 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:


A few years ago, my DH and I decided to adopt a family and do something nice for the holidays for them. We decided we were going to give them all the trimming for a holiday meal and a few spending dollars for gas or gifts for their children.

My DH and I started out dirt poor doing everything ourselves without the help of anyone other than our own need to survive. We wanted to pay our good fortune forward.

When push came to shove and we were ready to start buying stuff for our "care package" we were startled to realize that we couldn't really find a truly needy family.

Oh, don't get me wrong, we knew lots of families that struggled and were maybe on assistance or really had a hard time paying their bills but when we really looked at them we realized all of them smoked, had newer cars, went to the casino's, dressed in name brand clothing, had cell phones and tattoos etc etc

So in all honesty, we really couldn't find a truly needy family.

I KNOW there are families out there who are struggling and really really do need the help.....but I didn't have any idea where to find them.
Not a family but some senior citizens really need the help. It saddens me to see them struggling like they do-

I know of one that receives SS, $1,200 or so. Sounds like a lot but they really struggle on this and only receive $20 food card. Once they pay their rent, food, utilities, doctor bills, medications there is usually very little left. They have canceled everything, gone to barebones everything. They know they are very blessed because every month everything is covered but I can see the stress of just surviving.

Alot of seniors will forgo medications or food so they have a little money just in case. Most of them get paid at the beginning of the month and if anything happens (doctor, meds) they may not have the money and forgo going to the doctors or something.

So maybe next year when you want to do a food basket look to a senior and you will see true happiness/appreciation in their eyes!
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Springdaze 07:56 AM 02-14-2013
My whole take on the "programs" thing is that there is no longer any incentive to do better. Raise the minimum wage because people on it cant survive? Then strive for a better job than minimum wage. If you qualify for financial aid, go to school to get the better job. If people dont have to work hard to survive, some wont and if brought up that way, more and more generations will become people with no incentive. To be honest, government control scares me! I think I am intelligent enough to figure things out on my own. Yea, universal healthcare sounds great until its between your mother and a young person who needs care and there isnt enough for both. guess whos dying?
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canadiancare 08:08 AM 02-14-2013
I am a Canadian (hence the name) but I have worked on committees trying to get universal care here in some form for years. They have it the next province over and how it runs is that there are a set amount of spots at 7$ a day. The government subsidises the remainder. If you choose and are so fortunate as to get one of those spots then, there it is. If you go another route and pay privately that is your choice, too. You will get a receipt for your amount and carry on as usual.

I am a bleeding heart lefty, though so I support all this free education, free medical etc. I don't mind paying taxes that go to helping others and would rather see that than see the money going to buying weapons.
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Country Kids 08:14 AM 02-14-2013
Just saw a thing on minimum wage last night.

$9.00 an hour=$18,000 for the year (full time working)

$25,000 is poverty level.

So even working full-time you are living $7,000 below poverty level.

I so remember when my mom an RN made $7.50 an hour and that seemed like sooooooo much money.

When you could work for a summer and pay for one year at a University!

Its becoming such a rat race and one that ties me quickly. I'm ready to get rid of everything and live up in the woods by a little creek and get back to enjoying life-not just surviving.
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Binkybobo 08:16 AM 02-14-2013
Here's my take on it. I think the programs shoud be offered for a short period of time or under certain circumstances. A few years ago my husband was laid off from a very high paying job. At the time I was not working because I didn't have to. We were left with no income. We went to a local christian charity for food, and they offered financial counseling. At our first meeting we discussed what our financial problems were, and made a plan. The plan included ways we could improve our finances, and where we were going to be financially in 3months when the charity would no longer be assisting us. My husband's goals were obviously to find another high paying job, and my goals were to find a well paying part time job and reasonable childcare accomidations. They checked in with us each month to see what we were doing to obtain those goals, and where we were on our journey. At the end of the 3 months they stopped helping us with our bills and food and we were financially independent again. In a Nutshell. We have provided for ourselves very well ever since. It only took 3 months of help. I will forever have a respect for christian charities and would gladly volunteer my time to pay it foward. Everytime I go to the grocery store I buy a bag of charity groceries because I am able to give back. If we are going to have government programs such as foodstamps etc. they should be set up similarly to this charity. What have you done this month to become more financialy independent? What have you done to make sure that you and your children won't starve at the end of these 3 months?
I've never had foodstamps, only this 3 month period of assistance. I am proud of you all for working as hard as you have. I also understand that there are times when people accept help with the intent of working their butts off and paying it foward to someone else.
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Blackcat31 08:17 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
. I'm ready to get rid of everything and live up in the woods by a little creek and get back to enjoying life-not just surviving.
Hey, that is where I live!

Here is my creek:
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Willow 08:25 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by canadiancare:
I am a Canadian (hence the name) but I have worked on committees trying to get universal care here in some form for years. They have it the next province over and how it runs is that there are a set amount of spots at 7$ a day. The government subsidises the remainder. If you choose and are so fortunate as to get one of those spots then, there it is. If you go another route and pay privately that is your choice, too. You will get a receipt for your amount and carry on as usual.

I am a bleeding heart lefty, though so I support all this free education, free medical etc. I don't mind paying taxes that go to helping others and would rather see that than see the money going to buying weapons.

There is a huge difference between paying reasonable taxes that go to help others in true need and getting bent over forced to give my hard earned money to people who don't want to work but have bigger tv's, manicured nails and nicer vehicles than I do.

THAT is the state of this country's "assistance" at this point.


Obama hates the military and has slashed the defense budget multiple times. Tax payer money isn't going to "buying weapons," rest assured. He'll ship it off to other countries so women elsewhere can have access to free abortions, but when it comes to defending our country forget about it.

His threats of annihilating the second amendment however do have MY money going to buying up weapons however. I'm quite sure overall that's about the only boost he's given to the economy (in this country anyway) since he was elected into office


Back to the topic, there's a reason why there's always been a cut off for kindy.....it's because it's always been said children weren't developmentally ready for any sort of organized school setting before then.

Apparently children have all evolved at an epic rate of speed and that's no longer a consideration!
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Binkybobo 08:26 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Twinvillageiowa:
Before I duck out of this thread, because I really have nothing nice to say, if you ever are at poverty level I hope you have no intentions of using food stamps, Medicaid, daycare assistance vouchers, TANF, school lunch assistance or WIC. And I certainly hope you aren't on the food program, don't drive on city streets and don't use public transportation!
I know it may seem like you have been attacked for being on these programs, but I think peope were more reacting to how it was written. It seemed like you were suggesting that many of us had never been in the situation and could never really unerstand. I think it offended a few people who had worked very hard to get back on their feet and make good lives for themselves. Not to say that you are not hardworking..I'll just insert some emoticons like someone suggested last week that should help
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Country Kids 08:30 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Hey, that is where I live!

Here is my creek:

Thanks for the photo!

My dream (forever) is a little cabin in the woods with a natural creek by it and up from that a waterfall.

I can soooooo picture it, just not make it a reality!
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Willow 08:44 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Binkybobo:
Here's my take on it. I think the programs shoud be offered for a short period of time or under certain circumstances. A few years ago my husband was laid off from a very high paying job. At the time I was not working because I didn't have to. We were left with no income. We went to a local christian charity for food, and they offered financial counseling. At our first meeting we discussed what our financial problems were, and made a plan. The plan included ways we could improve our finances, and where we were going to be financially in 3months when the charity would no longer be assisting us. My husband's goals were obviously to find another high paying job, and my goals were to find a well paying part time job and reasonable childcare accomidations. They checked in with us each month to see what we were doing to obtain those goals, and where we were on our journey. At the end of the 3 months they stopped helping us with our bills and food and we were financially independent again. In a Nutshell. We have provided for ourselves very well ever since. It only took 3 months of help. I will forever have a respect for christian charities and would gladly volunteer my time to pay it foward. Everytime I go to the grocery store I buy a bag of charity groceries because I am able to give back. If we are going to have government programs such as foodstamps etc. they should be set up similarly to this charity. What have you done this month to become more financialy independent? What have you done to make sure that you and your children won't starve at the end of these 3 months?
I've never had foodstamps, only this 3 month period of assistance. I am proud of you all for working as hard as you have. I also understand that there are times when people accept help with the intent of working their butts off and paying it foward to someone else.



I got financial counseling from Lutheran Social Services, and I'm not even Lutheran! Made me smart about my money, instead of just dependent on others.

You teach a man to fish as opposed to just giving him one and the results will be night and day!

Maybe would be a good idea if there isn't just a cap but some mandatory budget counseling that would go along with any government obtained assistance?
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Blackcat31 09:10 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:



I got financial counseling from Lutheran Social Services, and I'm not even Lutheran! Made me smart about my money, instead of just dependent on others.

You teach a man to fish as opposed to just giving him one and the results will be night and day!

Maybe would be a good idea if there isn't just a cap but some mandatory budget counseling that would go along with any government obtained assistance?
I like that idea.

I watched a PBS documentary a while ago about the dust bowl. It talked about what the families who lived there went through during the drought.

One woman narrator made a comment about government assistance and said something along the lines of "The government couldn't just toss out assistance and expect these hard working people to willingly accept it. Accepting help without having to do anything in return robs a man of his self-respect and taking away what little they had left was often a death sentence"

They said not one family showed up for the free help.

If I remember the story correctly, the government then stepped in and offered the assistance to those who were willing to work for it in exchange for the help. ALL the families living in that area who were struggling now showed up and accepted the help.

These people valued their self-worth so much more because they felt as though they weren't taking something for nothing and had earned what help they were given.

For some reason that story has stuck with me and I often think of it when discussions of welfare and government aid comes up.
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MyAngels 09:16 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Binkybobo:
Here's my take on it. I think the programs shoud be offered for a short period of time or under certain circumstances. A few years ago my husband was laid off from a very high paying job. At the time I was not working because I didn't have to. We were left with no income. We went to a local christian charity for food, and they offered financial counseling. At our first meeting we discussed what our financial problems were, and made a plan. The plan included ways we could improve our finances, and where we were going to be financially in 3months when the charity would no longer be assisting us. My husband's goals were obviously to find another high paying job, and my goals were to find a well paying part time job and reasonable childcare accomidations. They checked in with us each month to see what we were doing to obtain those goals, and where we were on our journey. At the end of the 3 months they stopped helping us with our bills and food and we were financially independent again. In a Nutshell. We have provided for ourselves very well ever since. It only took 3 months of help. I will forever have a respect for christian charities and would gladly volunteer my time to pay it foward. Everytime I go to the grocery store I buy a bag of charity groceries because I am able to give back. If we are going to have government programs such as foodstamps etc. they should be set up similarly to this charity. What have you done this month to become more financialy independent? What have you done to make sure that you and your children won't starve at the end of these 3 months?
I've never had foodstamps, only this 3 month period of assistance. I am proud of you all for working as hard as you have. I also understand that there are times when people accept help with the intent of working their butts off and paying it foward to someone else.
This sounds like a great way to do it. Maybe we should turn all of the entitlement programs over to these organizations to run.
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Willow 09:29 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I like that idea.

I watched a PBS documentary a while ago about the dust bowl. It talked about what the families who lived there went through during the drought.

One woman narrator made a comment about government assistance and said something along the lines of "The government couldn't just toss out assistance and expect these hard working people to willingly accept it. Accepting help without having to do anything in return robs a man of his self-respect and taking away what little they had left was often a death sentence"

They said not one family showed up for the free help.

If I remember the story correctly, the government then stepped in and offered the assistance to those who were willing to work for it in exchange for the help. ALL the families living in that area who were struggling now showed up and accepted the help.

These people valued their self-worth so much more because they felt as though they weren't taking something for nothing and had earned what help they were given.

For some reason that story has stuck with me and I often think of it when discussions of welfare and government aid comes up.

I totally watched that!!!!

It's amazing how much times have changed....some for the good, some for the not so good.
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kathiemarie 09:34 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by itlw8:
I would call Head Start a success in our area. But funding was cut last year and many children did not recieve services. Why would you call it a failure?
I read a article about it not to long ago. I will try and find it.
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Lyss 09:40 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Hey, that is where I live!

Here is my creek:
Can I come to your house?

Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Thanks for the photo!

My dream (forever) is a little cabin in the woods with a natural creek by it and up from that a waterfall.

I can soooooo picture it, just not make it a reality!
Me too!! I hate where we live now but someday I hope to get my little cabin far away from everyone!

Originally Posted by Willow:
There is a huge difference between paying reasonable taxes that go to help others in true need and getting bent over forced to give my hard earned money to people who don't want to work but have bigger tv's, manicured nails and nicer vehicles than I do.

THAT is the state of this country's "assistance" at this point.

Back to the topic, there's a reason why there's always been a cut off for kindy.....it's because it's always been said children weren't developmentally ready for any sort of organized school setting before then.

Apparently children have all evolved at an epic rate of speed and that's no longer a consideration!
I agree.

We've been on state assistance briefly, we used WIC for formula when my DD was born because we were completely unprepared for that expense as we thought I'd be breastfeeding but due to heart problems and medication I was unable. We choose not to continue when DD was 6 months, even through we still qualified but we had paid off the medical bills and could afford to buy it ourselves. Honestly I always left the WIC office feeling so angry and annoyed after seeing all the people that obviously didn't need to be using that program sitting in the office complaining that they needed their vouchers now and didn't like the wait time or "wasting their time" taking the required nutrition classes.

I used to work in property management and we stopped accepting properties where the owners took housing assistance as clients because all we had was problems, 3/4 of the people had to pay less than $100 for their portion and were always late, yet the parking lot was full of nice SUVs and everyone had nice electronics in their apartment. Plus they weren't paying for the apartments so they were nearly always trashed. Don't get me wrong some of them were great tenants but honestly very few, in my experience anyway. I actually had one tenant tell me "I had a baby, I'm never gonna have to work again. That's what the state is for" and for her she was right, the state paid nearly all of her rent, then every month she had some company (churches & other aid organizations) paying her utilities and her $50 portion (of her $790 rent), and she got paid 150 a week from TANF. Now she'll get free daycare and preschool apparently.

The abuse of programs and the blind eye is what really bothers me! There needs to be accountability on both parts.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
One woman narrator made a comment about government assistance and said something along the lines of "The government couldn't just toss out assistance and expect these hard working people to willingly accept it. Accepting help without having to do anything in return robs a man of his self-respect and taking away what little they had left was often a death sentence"

They said not one family showed up for the free help.

If I remember the story correctly, the government then stepped in and offered the assistance to those who were willing to work for it in exchange for the help. ALL the families living in that area who were struggling now showed up and accepted the help.

These people valued their self-worth so much more because they felt as though they weren't taking something for nothing and had earned what help they were given.

For some reason that story has stuck with me and I often think of it when discussions of welfare and government aid comes up.
Our system is so messed up but to me the real issue is that no one wants to work anymore. Our society is so self righteous and everyone expects something for nothing. More and more people expect management level jobs and paychecks but are not willing to start at the bottom. They think they deserve a high paying job or these programs and assistance. Its owed to them.
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Heidi 10:14 AM 02-14-2013
okay...this digressed into a discussion about welfare. I'd like to steer it back to the original topic because I thought I felt passionately as many of you do. I DO fear that things are being "pushed down" earlier and earlier.

However, the fact that it would "take away business" from us, admittedly, does affect my feelings.

Many of us are interested in Reggio Emelia. It is world-known as an EXCELLENT program. It is also a "state run" early childhood program.

Here is an article I found about education in the world, and how the US fares:

http://www.oecd.org/education/CN%20-...d%20States.pdf

I have very mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, many other countries have "kindergarten " (the original Kindergarten is preschool, not kindergarten in the 5 year old sense). On the other hand, our schools already do such a crappy job, for the most part, that I don't trust them with the job.

IF something like this was done, then it should be part of a complete overhaul of our education system. More educated, higher paid teachers who are the cream-of-the-crop (like Finland's system, where only 20% of those who apply to teachers schools even get in, and it's a master's program). Creative, talented people who WANT to teach...not just have 9 month out of the year jobs. We have some of those creative, talented people now, but unfortunately, they are rarely respected by their peers or their school boards. Our 4K teacher here worked for her Masters, and then almost got herself fired because now...she costs too much.

This really isn't about Obama or politics. It's about the US staying a major player in the world. We absolutely need to improve education in this country. We need less drop-outs, more engaged students, and more higher education.

Our grandfathers didn't need 4-K...of course not! They were living in a different world. They did "just fine" because they worked their butts off in that world. As much as I like to get all nostalgic about it, longing for the days when "life was simpler", it's just not. Maybe someday, there'll be some sort of fall-of-society, and people will be hunters and gatherers again. For now, though, we are in an electronic age, and our children need to live in that world.

So...still not sure what that means for Universal Kindergarten...

Here is another article I found about Finland, which is world-known for it's educational excellence:

http://www.newamerica.net/blog/early...-children-9029
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My3cents 11:29 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by kathiemarie:
You are the type of families that programs should be inplace for. NOT for the people who CHOSE to get iphones, manis/pedis, gym memberships, eat out at NICE resturants etc. If someone has cut expesses to the bare bones and needs help then yes we as a nation need to help. But I for one is SICK of helping people who do not help themselves!

A universal pre-school? Cripes, our public school system can't even get it right with what they do now.


Ever go grocery shopping on the 1st of the month when welfare is handed out. It's like being in the twilight zone and amazing what these people can afford that I can't as a dual working family. Welfare needs an over haul. Hand out the basics for survival and start expecting the rest to come from hard work. It is one thing to help but it is another to let people live like this generation after generation.

Do you know why this will never happen. Big companies want their piece of the pie- Wrong on so many levels-
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jokalima 11:45 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:


A few years ago, my DH and I decided to adopt a family and do something nice for the holidays for them. We decided we were going to give them all the trimming for a holiday meal and a few spending dollars for gas or gifts for their children.

My DH and I started out dirt poor doing everything ourselves without the help of anyone other than our own need to survive. We wanted to pay our good fortune forward.

When push came to shove and we were ready to start buying stuff for our "care package" we were startled to realize that we couldn't really find a truly needy family.

Oh, don't get me wrong, we knew lots of families that struggled and were maybe on assistance or really had a hard time paying their bills but when we really looked at them we realized all of them smoked, had newer cars, went to the casino's, dressed in name brand clothing, had cell phones and tattoos etc etc

So in all honesty, we really couldn't find a truly needy family.

I KNOW there are families out there who are struggling and really really do need the help.....but I didn't have any idea where to find them.
This reminds me of a Christmas gift donation that the DC where I used to work gives to one family in need. Well, when they told me what family it was I decided not to give one penny, all of my co-workers gave me the bad eye but I did not care, the Head teacher obviously did not know what she was doing. Mom one a single mom of 2, she worked full time and had a brand new Honda mini van, I was driving an older car... So I was supposed to give to someone that can afford better/newer things that what I can? Sounds selfish? Could be, but I just think is not right.

Same thing with the family of previous year, Mom always cried how poor she was, she could not buy diapers, wipes, but she always had perfumes, nice shoes and wigs, and always a DD coffee in her hand, but NO wipes, no money for wipes. When they asked for the money to give to her I said no, I went to the store and bought the boy lots of clothes and gave them to him, I did it this way because I knew that if we gave the money to mom she would have spend it on herself.
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My3cents 11:46 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
I was definitely poverty level when I was going through my divorce.

We qualified for every single program under the sun but you know what? That didn't mean we *NEEDED* them.

Ability to qualify does not equate to NEED.

The only program I utilized was school lunch assistance. Although my kids qualified for free lunch I insisted on at least paying the discounted rate. I used it only because my income barely covered the bills my abusive, squandering ex left me buried in and I wanted to make sure there was at least food in my kids bellies. I had paid in via taxes for the previous dozen years or so felt that was fair.

Once I got back on my feet I immediately started paying the full rate again even though I could have taken advantage for the whole rest of the year.


Taking a whole lot more may have made my life easier but it wouldn't have been right. I could have taken cash assistance and kept our satellite tv. I could have taken food stamps and used what little grocery money I had to go to McDonalds instead of eating Ramen 2-3 nights a week. I learned to shop for everything else at thrift stores. To do otherwise would have been wrong. Sacrifices may be uncomfortable, but that's life. You do the best you can and if that means having less sometimes so be it. If you NEED the help that's one thing, but it's another entirely to take advantage when you don't in the true sense of the word.

Be glad you at least have your husband to pool your resources. I had no one but myself to fund my family of 3 and I did it just fine on my own (by my accounts anyway).
Most people on welfare and help don't have your mentality.

We had a stretch that was very tight for us and didn't qualify for anything. We made dollars too much to even get help with reduced lunch. Both of us working, scraping for hours at the time and high bills not because of foolish spending but just trying to get by. Starting off and the year that everything could go wrong did. We didn't qualify. This was years ago. Now it is just handed out.

I feel limits should be set on it and rations given out instead of $ and a debit card to buy what you want. Those that are truly in need will take what is given, those that are dependent and making it a way of life will B**** I say let them B**** enough to want to get off the hiney and do something with themselves. Most of these people need something to do, they would be a better asset to the community if they had purpose. Start getting the doctors to hand out vitamins instead of all these synthetic wonder drugs to just anyone that says they are depressed. (don't get me wrong, these drugs are for people who truly need them) I just don't believe that as many people that are on them now truly need them. We need coping skills and purpose and vitamins -

ok jumping off..... not trying to offend anyone. I live in a community that welfare is a way of life for many and see to much of what I don't want to see and can't change. I agree with you and I think we should get back to the mind set of need, true needs.
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jokalima 11:48 AM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
okay...this digressed into a discussion about welfare. I'd like to steer it back to the original topic because I thought I felt passionately as many of you do. I DO fear that things are being "pushed down" earlier and earlier.

However, the fact that it would "take away business" from us, admittedly, does affect my feelings.

Many of us are interested in Reggio Emelia. It is world-known as an EXCELLENT program. It is also a "state run" early childhood program.

Here is an article I found about education in the world, and how the US fares:

http://www.oecd.org/education/CN%20-...d%20States.pdf

I have very mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, many other countries have "kindergarten " (the original Kindergarten is preschool, not kindergarten in the 5 year old sense). On the other hand, our schools already do such a crappy job, for the most part, that I don't trust them with the job.

IF something like this was done, then it should be part of a complete overhaul of our education system. More educated, higher paid teachers who are the cream-of-the-crop (like Finland's system, where only 20% of those who apply to teachers schools even get in, and it's a master's program). Creative, talented people who WANT to teach...not just have 9 month out of the year jobs. We have some of those creative, talented people now, but unfortunately, they are rarely respected by their peers or their school boards. Our 4K teacher here worked for her Masters, and then almost got herself fired because now...she costs too much.

This really isn't about Obama or politics. It's about the US staying a major player in the world. We absolutely need to improve education in this country. We need less drop-outs, more engaged students, and more higher education.

Our grandfathers didn't need 4-K...of course not! They were living in a different world. They did "just fine" because they worked their butts off in that world. As much as I like to get all nostalgic about it, longing for the days when "life was simpler", it's just not. Maybe someday, there'll be some sort of fall-of-society, and people will be hunters and gatherers again. For now, though, we are in an electronic age, and our children need to live in that world.

So...still not sure what that means for Universal Kindergarten...

Here is another article I found about Finland, which is world-known for it's educational excellence:

http://www.newamerica.net/blog/early...-children-9029
I am not familiar with Reggio Emilia, what is it?
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My3cents 12:01 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I support Obama, and my personal and business taxes have gone down during his administration. My property values have gone up. My unemployed nephew has gotten a good job. I am looking forward to pursuing health insurance soon. So no complaints here about our President. I too did want to hear more about immigration, unemployment and bringing manufacturing back to the US.

Now.....on to the topic at hand:

I happily accept state subsidized childcare vouchers, and my state allows (encourages us, actually) to charge subsidy parents the difference between my published rate and their rate. In other words, accepting subsidy does not hurt my bottom line, and actually brings me joy to know I am helping someone by accepting it. My place is quite pricey, most
(if not all) of other pricey places refuse subsidy.

I do not like the current free preschool for 4 year olds, and I do not support it for 3 yeaoldsYes, it hurts my business. However, if I can figure out a way to participate without it meaning a pay-cut, I WILL! When the market changes, I feel it is my.duty to adapt, or be left behind. I don't count on any politician to make the right decisions. I count on myself. I don't want to be the Blackberry of the child care industry, I want to be the Iphone.

I don't think this happen on a federal level. It might on a state level. But I doubt it. So until it does, I am not going to get my panties in a wad over it, I got bigger things to worry about.
you are lucky here- My state will not let you charge parents more then what the state will pay for daycare- How is that fair to me? I am a business and I have a contract but if I want to accept state children I have to go by the states contract. No- Everything I have to go through to be licensed and run and I am going to be bossed into someone else running my business. No and that stinks because I do like to help others.
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Play Care 12:13 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by canadiancare:
I am a Canadian (hence the name) but I have worked on committees trying to get universal care here in some form for years. They have it the next province over and how it runs is that there are a set amount of spots at 7$ a day. The government subsidises the remainder. If you choose and are so fortunate as to get one of those spots then, there it is. If you go another route and pay privately that is your choice, too. You will get a receipt for your amount and carry on as usual.

I am a bleeding heart lefty, though so I support all this free education, free medical etc. I don't mind paying taxes that go to helping others and would rather see that than see the money going to buying weapons.
I am green with envy over Canada's mat/family leave.
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My3cents 12:15 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by chellenj:
My whole take on the "programs" thing is that there is no longer any incentive to do better. Raise the minimum wage because people on it cant survive? Then strive for a better job than minimum wage. If you qualify for financial aid, go to school to get the better job. If people dont have to work hard to survive, some wont and if brought up that way, more and more generations will become people with no incentive. To be honest, government control scares me! I think I am intelligent enough to figure things out on my own. Yea, universal healthcare sounds great until its between your mother and a young person who needs care and there isnt enough for both. guess whos dying?
I know of someone that spent all the financial aid that was handed to them on whatever with no intent to go to school and no intent to pay it back. Because this person knew the President is going to "forgive" college loans.

This person is making a career off the Government! Third generation of this way of life---

The incentive is there, it is there to see what more I can get and why can't I??? Poor me syndrome, syndrome of entitlement. I believe many government jobs would not be needed and high paying jobs like Dr.s if an over haul was done to stop this mind set-
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Heidi 12:17 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
I am not familiar with Reggio Emilia, what is it?

Here is a good site to get more info...

http://www.reggiokids.com/about/about_approach.php
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Willow 12:19 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:

This really isn't about Obama or politics. It's about the US staying a major player in the world. We absolutely need to improve education in this country. We need less drop-outs, more engaged students, and more higher education.

Ahhh....but is doing the exact same thing we're doing now - funneling kids into massive institutionalized learning centers (public schools) - sending them younger and younger really improve those statistics?


The reason why this is about Obama and politics is it's pretty typical for the left to demand change via charging the taxpayers up the wazoo for new this and new that. Why not FIX what's currently broken before adding more to the pile? Sort out the why behind the drop outs, the disengaged students and the zero motivation for higher education. Solve THAT first. And then start making the argument that more and more younger kids should join that arena if you think it'll actually help them.

Throwing young children into a system that most people would agree is ridiculously broken will never improve the state of the education in this country.

(you ='s general you - not you specifically Heidi lol)
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Willow 12:21 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I am green with envy over Canada's mat/family leave.
If the United States would ever actually prioritize it's spending I don't think we'd have any trouble offering that to the working class.
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Blackcat31 12:29 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
This really isn't about Obama or politics. It's about the US staying a major player in the world. We absolutely need to improve education in this country. We need less drop-outs, more engaged students, and more higher education.
Originally Posted by Willow:
Ahhh....but is doing the exact same thing we're doing now - funneling kids into massive institutionalized learning centers (public schools) - sending them younger and younger really improve those statistics?


The reason why this is about Obama and politics is it's pretty typical for the left to demand change via charging the taxpayers up the wazoo for new this and new that. Why not FIX what's currently broken before adding more to the pile? Sort out the why behind the drop outs, the disengaged students and the zero motivation for higher education. Solve THAT first. And then start making the argument that more and more younger kids should join that arena if you think it'll actually help them.

Throwing young children into a system that most people would agree is ridiculously broken will never improve the state of the education in this country.

(you ='s general you - not you specifically Heidi lol)
Plus there is NO proof, no actual proof that preschool benefits anyone other than low income children.

Until I see some actual proof that early childhood education actually gives a child a "head start" in life academically or personally, I won't buy into it.

Providing universal and/or free preschool isn't really going to help anyone but the government.
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Heidi 12:45 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Ahhh....but is doing the exact same thing we're doing now - funneling kids into massive institutionalized learning centers (public schools) - sending them younger and younger really improve those statistics?


The reason why this is about Obama and politics is it's pretty typical for the left to demand change via charging the taxpayers up the wazoo for new this and new that. Why not FIX what's currently broken before adding more to the pile? Sort out the why behind the drop outs, the disengaged students and the zero motivation for higher education. Solve THAT first. And then start making the argument that more and more younger kids should join that arena if you think it'll actually help them.

Throwing young children into a system that most people would agree is ridiculously broken will never improve the state of the education in this country.

(you ='s general you - not you specifically Heidi lol)
I totally agree!

I wasn't trying to say I was for the idea. Not sure how I came across. I am trying to say that the whole thing is pretty messed up, and I might be FOR the idea IF, and only IF, we can get the rest fixed. I think that would require a major overhaul of the education system. Not something I think we'll be seeing anytime soon, because although most people agree that it isn't working, there is huge disagreement about what needs to be done.

My MIL says things like "they need to get back to the basics.."

I say things like "they need to find new and creative ways to engage kids..." I don't believe "basics" are going to prepare our children for the world they are growing up in. My MIL wants the world to be more like it was when she was growing up. So, two very different ways of looking at the problem...

Heck, I want the world to be more like it was when I was growing up, but it's not, and it's not gonna be.... Well...maybe some of it wasn't all roses-and-sunshine anyway, come to think of it...
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jen2651 01:05 PM 02-14-2013
Speaking on the headstart aspect, I (my family) qualified for headstart when I was 4. It was a great program then - it was in the school and from 8-3. We had lunch, quiet time etc. Now, from what I know (and could be wrong) it is 2.5 hour sessions (requiring parental transportation - who can work and do that?!) and you also must as a parent meet with someone once in a while (I believe it is every 2 weeks for 1 hour).

I just don't understand how they expect people who are trying to get a leg up to utilize the program. To me, the obvious answer would be to not work?! No different than the ECFE classes in my areas. There is not one class geared towards working people. They are all during the day. Now yes, some people have shift work but in my area it is not prevalent. Oh wait, I correct myself. In a bigger town, there was one evening class - Daddies and Me. Cause you know - like the moms would work?!
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Blackcat31 01:09 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by jen2651:
Speaking on the headstart aspect, I (my family) qualified for headstart when I was 4. It was a great program then - it was in the school and from 8-3. We had lunch, quiet time etc. Now, from what I know (and could be wrong) it is 2.5 hour sessions (requiring parental transportation - who can work and do that?!) and you also must as a parent meet with someone once in a while (I believe it is every 2 weeks for 1 hour).

I just don't understand how they expect people who are trying to get a leg up to utilize the program. To me, the obvious answer would be to not work?! No different than the ECFE classes in my areas. There is not one class geared towards working people. They are all during the day. Now yes, some people have shift work but in my area it is not prevalent. Oh wait, I correct myself. In a bigger town, there was one evening class - Daddies and Me. Cause you know - like the moms would work?!
As a former Head Start employee, the point was to teach the parents/families to learn to work and be self-sufficient, it was to keep them in the system and make sure they continued to sign up for everything they could.

After all, if they became self sufficient and no longer needed any type of assistance, there would be a lot of people down at human services out of work.

I made over $13 per hour working at Head Start. STARTING pay with NO education and over 20+ years ago.

Something just not right about that. I have lots of other behind the scenes stories so.... I agree. Head Start is not what it was intended to be.
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allsmiles 01:09 PM 02-14-2013
i dont really have a opinion about universal daycare YET..
but as far as the arguement that ppl are misusing the programs that put in place to help those that need it.. i really dont see how that makes the program ineffective?? thats just human nature unfortunately.. I worked for Social Security and Medicaid for YEARS and I got sick of hearing that song.. YES there are alot of ppl that misuse the federal TAX dollars and there are still alot of ppl that use and need them?? there are MILLIONS of dollars used to stop fraud and misuse but its never gonna clean the problem up totally.. still doesnt mean that the programs arent needed at all..

as far as getting ready for kindergarten and the NEED to do so.. im surprised none of you have had any child go thru kindergarten in the last couple of years?? i have and kindergarten is not what it was when our parents or even WE went through it. You do have a lot more skills that are expected of you. My children both attended pre k 3, not based on income.. and they had spelling tests and reading comprehension by 2nd semester? wht if your child was the one that didnt have that preparation and entered kinder? would they make it? OF COURSE.. would it be great for all kids to have the same opportunities to meet the expectations ..I THINK SO??
or forget about that.. what about just the few ppl that need daycare just for DAYCARE.. state funded programs have been cut back so much.. no daycares are trying to do care on sliding scales, heck they have to make a profit as well.. its crazy out there.. im glad im not in that boat of needing it, but something needs to be done.. and im glad im not the person that has to think of how to help because NO ONE can make everybody happy.. glad i only have to please 4 and not 4 billion.. okay done LMBO!!!!!!
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Kaddidle Care 01:18 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Binkybobo:
Here's my take on it. I think the programs shoud be offered for a short period of time or under certain circumstances. A few years ago my husband was laid off from a very high paying job. At the time I was not working because I didn't have to. We were left with no income. We went to a local christian charity for food, and they offered financial counseling. At our first meeting we discussed what our financial problems were, and made a plan. The plan included ways we could improve our finances, and where we were going to be financially in 3months when the charity would no longer be assisting us. My husband's goals were obviously to find another high paying job, and my goals were to find a well paying part time job and reasonable childcare accomidations. They checked in with us each month to see what we were doing to obtain those goals, and where we were on our journey. At the end of the 3 months they stopped helping us with our bills and food and we were financially independent again. In a Nutshell. We have provided for ourselves very well ever since. It only took 3 months of help. I will forever have a respect for christian charities and would gladly volunteer my time to pay it foward. Everytime I go to the grocery store I buy a bag of charity groceries because I am able to give back. If we are going to have government programs such as foodstamps etc. they should be set up similarly to this charity. What have you done this month to become more financialy independent? What have you done to make sure that you and your children won't starve at the end of these 3 months?
I've never had foodstamps, only this 3 month period of assistance. I am proud of you all for working as hard as you have. I also understand that there are times when people accept help with the intent of working their butts off and paying it foward to someone else.
I applaud you! I don't think many could turn their lives around in 3 short months but you've proven it's possible.

Where I now work we have a small food bank and the people that give the most are the people that have been in your shoes. One thing you might consider instead of lugging all of that food to your food bank every week is to purchase one or two $10.00 grocery gift cards. We keep them on hand as it's just enough to buy milk, eggs, bread or some meat - things we can't store.

I can usually get a vibe from people and I've yet to detect anyone that wasn't clearly in need. If they are taking advantage, they'll have to settle it with the big man upstairs.

Sorry - I've gotten off track here.
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Binkybobo 01:32 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Kaddidle Care:
I applaud you! I don't think many could turn their lives around in 3 short months but you've proven it's possible.

Where I now work we have a small food bank and the people that give the most are the people that have been in your shoes. One thing you might consider instead of lugging all of that food to your food bank every week is to purchase one or two $10.00 grocery gift cards. We keep them on hand as it's just enough to buy milk, eggs, bread or some meat - things we can't store.

I can usually get a vibe from people and I've yet to detect anyone that wasn't clearly in need. If they are taking advantage, they'll have to settle it with the big man upstairs.

Sorry - I've gotten off track here.
Here they have bags already prepared for the food bank at the grocery store. I just pay for the prebagged groceries,and the store donates them to the charity. Personally, I was embarrassed to walk into the pantry each week. At the time I needed the help and was very greatful. I think the support given to me by the charity, the deadline,and my own need for independence were the things that sped up the process for me.
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DCMom 01:38 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:


I have learned alot of things while being a child care provider but the one of the biggest things I have learned is that 3/4 of money issues aren't about lack of income but lack of ability to budget and prioritize.
This. Exactly.
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Willow 01:41 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by allsmiles:

as far as getting ready for kindergarten and the NEED to do so.. im surprised none of you have had any child go thru kindergarten in the last couple of years??
My kids are in 3rd and 4th grade respectively this year.

They never did any pre-K (save for what I taught them at home) and their kindergarten was nothing like what you describe. The only thing that was different was my daughter went all day every other day because K wasn't available every day unless you could pay for it (at the time I couldn't). When my son went the following year I could afford it (to the tune of $210/month) and the only thing different about his experience is they didn't do a nap time like I had when I went.

I don't think what they're learning is really all that different from what I was learning at their ages and this year was the first year my daughter has said anything about doing any sort of standardized testing.

If anything things have done a bit of a backslide imho. I could read very well by the end of kindergarten, as could my children, but their classmates struggled greatly with that up through 2nd grade. Social skills have completely gone done the crapper....I literally hate to visit their school because the way most kids behave towards each other and staff just pisses me off
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allsmiles 02:05 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
My kids are in 3rd and 4th grade respectively this year.

They never did any pre-K (save for what I taught them at home) and their kindergarten was nothing like what you describe. The only thing that was different was my daughter went all day every other day because K wasn't available every day unless you could pay for it (at the time I couldn't). When my son went the following year I could afford it (to the tune of $210/month) and the only thing different about his experience is they didn't do a nap time like I had when I went.

I don't think what they're learning is really all that different from what I was learning at their ages and this year was the first year my daughter has said anything about doing any sort of standardized testing.

If anything things have done a bit of a backslide imho. I could read very well by the end of kindergarten, as could my children, but their classmates struggled greatly with that up through 2nd grade. Social skills have completely gone done the crapper....I literally hate to visit their school because the way most kids behave towards each other and staff just pisses me off
i totally understand my experience isnt like everyones..but i know its not the only one either.. i seem to remember a former teacher talking about kindy expectations a few threads ago.. but anyway.. just offering a different perspective.. some parents loved the fact that their 3 year old was getting h/w everyday and doing class projects.. the demand for pk3 programs continue to be well above whats available here in Dallas if for no other reason than free daycare!!! ..
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DayCareDiva30 02:48 PM 02-14-2013


Originally Posted by Binkybobo:
Here's my take on it. I think the programs shoud be offered for a short period of time or under certain circumstances. A few years ago my husband was laid off from a very high paying job. At the time I was not working because I didn't have to. We were left with no income. We went to a local christian charity for food, and they offered financial counseling. At our first meeting we discussed what our financial problems were, and made a plan. The plan included ways we could improve our finances, and where we were going to be financially in 3months when the charity would no longer be assisting us. My husband's goals were obviously to find another high paying job, and my goals were to find a well paying part time job and reasonable childcare accomidations. They checked in with us each month to see what we were doing to obtain those goals, and where we were on our journey. At the end of the 3 months they stopped helping us with our bills and food and we were financially independent again. In a Nutshell. We have provided for ourselves very well ever since. It only took 3 months of help. I will forever have a respect for christian charities and would gladly volunteer my time to pay it foward. Everytime I go to the grocery store I buy a bag of charity groceries because I am able to give back. If we are going to have government programs such as foodstamps etc. they should be set up similarly to this charity. What have you done this month to become more financialy independent? What have you done to make sure that you and your children won't starve at the end of these 3 months?
I've never had foodstamps, only this 3 month period of assistance. I am proud of you all for working as hard as you have. I also understand that there are times when people accept help with the intent of working their butts off and paying it foward to someone else.

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Starburst 04:05 PM 02-14-2013
What the govenrment really needs to do is focus more on re-educating able-minded adults so that they can find better jobs and less people would be dependent on these programs and they would be able afford daycare. My mom is a single mom of two kids and a few times when she was between jobs or even had 2 jobs but was barely scraping by she tried to get assistants but they said she made too much or wasn't eligable. My mom was on a waiting list for re-education on unemployment for the last year (they only accept the first 200 at a time and she was placed in the 400's) where she could still collect unemployment while she went to school but when she final got excepted they canceled the program (because of the budget cuts) and her unemployment is going to run out soon ... if she went back to school on her own with financial aid she wouldn't be eligable to collect unemployment, She is in her 50s and never went to college; she always worked at resturants but after she got laid off it's been hard for her to find a long-term job. So apparently the government would much rather you just stay in your slump and look for another dead end job for only minimum wage (when you would get paid more if you collected unemployment) and be on an endless waiting list than just help them get into a program they could finish in less than a year and have better luck finding a job.

Also most adults only make minimum wage and the national MW hasn't caught up to the cost of living. Though some states and even some cities do have higher minimum wage (usually because their COL is higher but still not really enough to suppliment a good enough living). Heck, in the FCC field you make less than minimum wage (per child/family) and people are always complaining about the cost.
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LaLa1923 06:56 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by chellenj:
My whole take on the "programs" thing is that there is no longer any incentive to do better. Raise the minimum wage because people on it cant survive? Then strive for a better job than minimum wage. If you qualify for financial aid, go to school to get the better job. If people dont have to work hard to survive, some wont and if brought up that way, more and more generations will become people with no incentive. To be honest, government control scares me! I think I am intelligent enough to figure things out on my own. Yea, universal healthcare sounds great until its between your mother and a young person who needs care and there isnt enough for both. guess whos dying?

Going back to school USED to be the answer! People can't get the jobs they went to school for. People are being turned away for being "over qualified".
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jen2651 06:57 PM 02-14-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
As a former Head Start employee, the point was to teach the parents/families to learn to work and be self-sufficient, it was to keep them in the system and make sure they continued to sign up for everything they could.

After all, if they became self sufficient and no longer needed any type of assistance, there would be a lot of people down at human services out of work.

I made over $13 per hour working at Head Start. STARTING pay with NO education and over 20+ years ago.

Something just not right about that. I have lots of other behind the scenes stories so.... I agree. Head Start is not what it was intended to be.
So when did it change? My parents never had to meet with anyone regarding nutrition/proper parenting etc for either my brother or I. I would have been 28 years ago, and he 25...I guess I didn't realize it was that long ago.

When I had my out of home job some of the people who were the parent 'meeters' (not sure of their title) were just a joke. I'm sorry, I am not trying to be mean or snotty but at least twice a year I met with one due to my line of work - they were trying to utilize my services and would allow me a place to provide some 'face to face' with what I did...anyway, there was incredible turnover and the last 3 people I met with were so 'yucky'... If my child was in the program and they were meeting with me at my house telling me how to parent, I think I'd probably laugh in their face. Sorry, but my husband and I technically qualified for the program but the transportation was not an option and the whole 'meeting with someone in my home' was a total turn off.
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Michelle 08:04 PM 02-14-2013
I had a neighbor that went to a mandatory jump start parent class for parents wanting their kids to get free preschool here and she said it was so ridiculous.

They talked down to her like she was very uneducated.

They did demonstrations on how to use scissors, how to help your child with their kinder homework. etc.

She walked out and said if they want to kick her daughter out, go ahead but she was not staying!

The school district is getting VERY intrusive with families too!
I had a parent/teacher meeting and she wanted me to tell her everything we do minute by minute from the time we get home from school until past bedtime.
They even have the kids fill out questionnaires about how they are disciplined at home!

I really think that these young toddler years should be spent at home or in a family daycare. They is no need to force them into school when they are still so young! Let them run through the grass barefoot,have pillow fights with friends, make tents out of blankets, make homemade cake with mom or their awesome providers, learn to share, learn their abc's and make friends in a non institutional environment...they have 13 years of school plus college!

Let them enjoy their wild and free days to be kids!
The First 5 commercials that are playing on our local stations make it seem like the kids will end up in prison if they don't start preschool super early..

Come on, give me a break!
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Blackcat31 07:27 AM 02-15-2013
Originally Posted by jen2651:
So when did it change? My parents never had to meet with anyone regarding nutrition/proper parenting etc for either my brother or I. I would have been 28 years ago, and he 25...I guess I didn't realize it was that long ago.

When I had my out of home job some of the people who were the parent 'meeters' (not sure of their title) were just a joke. I'm sorry, I am not trying to be mean or snotty but at least twice a year I met with one due to my line of work - they were trying to utilize my services and would allow me a place to provide some 'face to face' with what I did...anyway, there was incredible turnover and the last 3 people I met with were so 'yucky'... If my child was in the program and they were meeting with me at my house telling me how to parent, I think I'd probably laugh in their face. Sorry, but my husband and I technically qualified for the program but the transportation was not an option and the whole 'meeting with someone in my home' was a total turn off.


Originally Posted by Michelle:
I had a neighbor that went to a mandatory jump start parent class for parents wanting their kids to get free preschool here and she said it was so ridiculous.

They talked down to her like she was very uneducated.

They did demonstrations on how to use scissors, how to help your child with their kinder homework. etc.

She walked out and said if they want to kick her daughter out, go ahead but she was not staying!

The school district is getting VERY intrusive with families too!
I had a parent/teacher meeting and she wanted me to tell her everything we do minute by minute from the time we get home from school until past bedtime.

They even have the kids fill out questionnaires about how they are disciplined at home!
My title was Assistant Classroom Teacher/Home Vistor. I spent M/W in the classroom and T/Th driving to each students house for a bi-weekly home visit. During my home visit, it was my job to do many of the things Michelle listed in her post.

One of the biggest things I had issue with was that we were told during our staff meetings was that we were to treat each family as if they had no more than an 8th grade education. That really hit hard for me because I felt like they were telling us that just because a family was low income it meant they were stupid or uneducated and I felt that was really not ok.

One of our monthly "goals" was to make sure each family assigned to us (I had 19) was signed up for and utilizing EVERY government assistance program available. If they didn't know about one, educate them on it. If they didn't want to sign up, we were to convince them that they were doing their family/child a dis-service by not using tools and resources available to them.

Bottom line was that I felt it was a "recruiting" mission to make sure families signed up for, stayed on and used every and all assistance programs that were available but yet the whole public concept behind Head Start (and similar programs) was to help families become self-sufficient and able to stand on there own. (??)

What a joke.

The catalyst for me was when I went to "refill" my supply tote and wanted to buy a Candyland game from Wal-mart for $3.98. My supervisor told me no and that I was to ONLY purchase things from a specialty catalog, like Kaplan or Lakeshore Learning, you know where the Candyland games are more like $15 instead. When I questioned her, she said we HAD to spend our grant money because if we didn't we wouldn't get as much next year.

I had a hard time swallowing the fact that we (as a supposed helping hand for families) were doing nothing but trying to spend the grant money faster than the year before, were having catored luncheons in all sorts of great locations as staff meetings and talking smack behind the parents back. We also went to tons of ECE conferences and had the nicest best rooms, all paid for us by Head Start

The spending was UNREAL!!!!!!......All the while the families we were supposedly trying to help struggled day to day with putting food on their tables.... NOT something I wanted any part of.
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Willow 08:01 AM 02-15-2013
BC - you should be a whistleblower

All that right there is why I cannot stand big government and why I could never in a million years identify as democrat. It's one thing if if they want to put up a billion and one social programs to assist everyone with everything under the sun, but when that's how spending is handled?

There's just no way the country can sustain itself.


Put a mom that's had to feed her family on $20 a week in the White House and I guarantee we'd be completely debt free in 3 years because that crap would be laughed out the door and then smashed with complete and utter disgust
Reply
juliebug 11:32 AM 02-15-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My title was Assistant Classroom Teacher/Home Vistor. I spent M/W in the classroom and T/Th driving to each students house for a bi-weekly home visit. During my home visit, it was my job to do many of the things Michelle listed in her post.

One of the biggest things I had issue with was that we were told during our staff meetings was that we were to treat each family as if they had no more than an 8th grade education. That really hit hard for me because I felt like they were telling us that just because a family was low income it meant they were stupid or uneducated and I felt that was really not ok.

One of our monthly "goals" was to make sure each family assigned to us (I had 19) was signed up for and utilizing EVERY government assistance program available. If they didn't know about one, educate them on it. If they didn't want to sign up, we were to convince them that they were doing their family/child a dis-service by not using tools and resources available to them.

Bottom line was that I felt it was a "recruiting" mission to make sure families signed up for, stayed on and used every and all assistance programs that were available but yet the whole public concept behind Head Start (and similar programs) was to help families become self-sufficient and able to stand on there own. (??)

What a joke.

The catalyst for me was when I went to "refill" my supply tote and wanted to buy a Candyland game from Wal-mart for $3.98. My supervisor told me no and that I was to ONLY purchase things from a specialty catalog, like Kaplan or Lakeshore Learning, you know where the Candyland games are more like $15 instead. When I questioned her, she said we HAD to spend our grant money because if we didn't we wouldn't get as much next year.

I had a hard time swallowing the fact that we (as a supposed helping hand for families) were doing nothing but trying to spend the grant money faster than the year before, were having catored luncheons in all sorts of great locations as staff meetings and talking smack behind the parents back. We also went to tons of ECE conferences and had the nicest best rooms, all paid for us by Head Start

The spending was UNREAL!!!!!!......All the while the families we were supposedly trying to help struggled day to day with putting food on their tables.... NOT something I wanted any part of.
I have seen some of the grant spending crazy before it is just unreal to me!!! i hate that people and government think that way.
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My3cents 12:34 PM 02-15-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
BC - you should be a whistleblower

All that right there is why I cannot stand big government and why I could never in a million years identify as democrat. It's one thing if if they want to put up a billion and one social programs to assist everyone with everything under the sun, but when that's how spending is handled?

There's just no way the country can sustain itself.


Put a mom that's had to feed her family on $20 a week in the White House and I guarantee we'd be completely debt free in 3 years because that crap would be laughed out the door and then smashed with complete and utter disgust

Reply
Michelle 02:03 PM 02-15-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My title was Assistant Classroom Teacher/Home Vistor. I spent M/W in the classroom and T/Th driving to each students house for a bi-weekly home visit. During my home visit, it was my job to do many of the things Michelle listed in her post.

One of the biggest things I had issue with was that we were told during our staff meetings was that we were to treat each family as if they had no more than an 8th grade education. That really hit hard for me because I felt like they were telling us that just because a family was low income it meant they were stupid or uneducated and I felt that was really not ok.

One of our monthly "goals" was to make sure each family assigned to us (I had 19) was signed up for and utilizing EVERY government assistance program available. If they didn't know about one, educate them on it. If they didn't want to sign up, we were to convince them that they were doing their family/child a dis-service by not using tools and resources available to them.

Bottom line was that I felt it was a "recruiting" mission to make sure families signed up for, stayed on and used every and all assistance programs that were available but yet the whole public concept behind Head Start (and similar programs) was to help families become self-sufficient and able to stand on there own. (??)

What a joke.

The catalyst for me was when I went to "refill" my supply tote and wanted to buy a Candyland game from Wal-mart for $3.98. My supervisor told me no and that I was to ONLY purchase things from a specialty catalog, like Kaplan or Lakeshore Learning, you know where the Candyland games are more like $15 instead. When I questioned her, she said we HAD to spend our grant money because if we didn't we wouldn't get as much next year.

I had a hard time swallowing the fact that we (as a supposed helping hand for families) were doing nothing but trying to spend the grant money faster than the year before, were having catored luncheons in all sorts of great locations as staff meetings and talking smack behind the parents back. We also went to tons of ECE conferences and had the nicest best rooms, all paid for us by Head Start

The spending was UNREAL!!!!!!......All the while the families we were supposedly trying to help struggled day to day with putting food on their tables.... NOT something I wanted any part of.
I actually tried to sign up my dd for some kind of first 5 program and I didn't know it was an entitlement program or what it was about or who paid for it, I just saw a flyer for free preschool and free gifts etc. so I called and called but they never called me back.. they always answered in spanish and I told them I don't speak spanish and then they said that I probably didn't qualify. I got tired of trying to get her in so I just gave up and taught her myself.This is like 6 years ago
Reply
spud912 02:34 PM 02-15-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My title was Assistant Classroom Teacher/Home Vistor. I spent M/W in the classroom and T/Th driving to each students house for a bi-weekly home visit. During my home visit, it was my job to do many of the things Michelle listed in her post.

One of the biggest things I had issue with was that we were told during our staff meetings was that we were to treat each family as if they had no more than an 8th grade education. That really hit hard for me because I felt like they were telling us that just because a family was low income it meant they were stupid or uneducated and I felt that was really not ok.

One of our monthly "goals" was to make sure each family assigned to us (I had 19) was signed up for and utilizing EVERY government assistance program available. If they didn't know about one, educate them on it. If they didn't want to sign up, we were to convince them that they were doing their family/child a dis-service by not using tools and resources available to them.

Bottom line was that I felt it was a "recruiting" mission to make sure families signed up for, stayed on and used every and all assistance programs that were available but yet the whole public concept behind Head Start (and similar programs) was to help families become self-sufficient and able to stand on there own. (??)

What a joke.

The catalyst for me was when I went to "refill" my supply tote and wanted to buy a Candyland game from Wal-mart for $3.98. My supervisor told me no and that I was to ONLY purchase things from a specialty catalog, like Kaplan or Lakeshore Learning, you know where the Candyland games are more like $15 instead. When I questioned her, she said we HAD to spend our grant money because if we didn't we wouldn't get as much next year.

I had a hard time swallowing the fact that we (as a supposed helping hand for families) were doing nothing but trying to spend the grant money faster than the year before, were having catored luncheons in all sorts of great locations as staff meetings and talking smack behind the parents back. We also went to tons of ECE conferences and had the nicest best rooms, all paid for us by Head Start

The spending was UNREAL!!!!!!......All the while the families we were supposedly trying to help struggled day to day with putting food on their tables.... NOT something I wanted any part of.
That's the government for you! I worked for the government prior to opening my daycare and I remember being surprised about the grant thing as well .

One year, the management bought a bunch of incubators (for bacterial growth) worth thousands of dollars with the department's money in an effort to "use up" the money so we could get equivalent money budgeted to us the next year. Only later did they realize that they were not legally allowed to grow anything in them (per OSHA, for obvious safety reasons....we are not a chemistry lab!). They ended up being thousand dollar storage devices .

Also, we could only purchase office supplies through Office Depot because we had a contract with them. There were so many instances we could have saved SOOO much money if we used another purveyor or bought the items used (especially cubicle equipment).
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Tags:childcare, childcare assistance, preschool, universal childcare
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