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Old 09-24-2012, 11:37 AM
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Default Can or Can’t? Possible Custody Issue...

I have a dcf that I have had for about 2.5 years.

Recently the DCP have split up and the mom moved out of state, leaving the child with the DCD. SO the DCD is local and so is the MIL.

At first the split up was ok, but got ugly really fast since the mom moved.

On Friday, DCD came to me and told me that the DCM told him that she is going to have her mom (MIL) pick up her daughter from daycare today and take her and bring her out to Michigan to the mom.

The dad was so scared that it might happen, that he kept his daughter home today.

I know that I cannot deny any parent the right to pick up their child from me, but what about grandparents? Can I deny the MIL the right to pick up her grandchild from care?

I did tell DCD w/o a court ordered custody agreement, I cannot with hold the child. He said that he now wants to pull the DCG and place her where the DCM and grandma do not know where she will be???????

Does anyone know, if I can with hold the child from the grandparents???? I don't want to get the middle of any of this and they have been very good about keeping me out of it until this past week.

any advice would be nice. Also, I am asking becuase I don't know. I don't need a lecture on how wrong it would be if I did or didn't adhere to DCD request.

thanks
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:46 AM
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You are only legally obligated to release a child to a parent. Grandparents have no legal rights unless granted by the courts.

They are the same as anyone else in this case. For example if DCM sent a friend to retrieve child you can by law say no.

ONLY DCD and DCM have the right to take child from your care.

If I were you I would tell DCD that info as well as advise him to get a temp custody order inplace giving him sole custody until the courts can do otherwise. "Hiding" the child in a care facility that DCM is not aware of may only prove to be a bad move on dad's part when and if they do end up in court fighting over custody.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
You are only legally obligated to release a child to a parent. Grandparents have no legal rights unless granted by the courts.

They are the same as anyone else in this case. For example if DCM sent a friend to retrieve child you can by law say no.

ONLY DCD and DCM have the right to take child from your care.

If I were you I would tell DCD that info as well as advise him to get a temp custody order inplace giving him sole custody until the courts can do otherwise. "Hiding" the child in a care facility that DCM is not aware of may only prove to be a bad move on dad's part when and if they do end up in court fighting over custody.
I didn't know that. I thought anyone the parent authorized in writing to pick up the child had a legal right to the child...
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:56 AM
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I didn't know that. I thought anyone the parent authorized in writing to pick up the child had a legal right to the child...
They do normally but not in cases of custody or where the parents are no longer together and fighting over the child.

This is when you revert back to custody laws and since DCD is obviously against the MIL coming to retrieve child then you have to go with the parent only rule.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:56 AM
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I didn't know that. I thought anyone the parent authorized in writing to pick up the child had a legal right to the child...
Yes that is what I thought too, this is why I asked... of course the MIL is on the emergency contact form as well as authorized for pick up......

I did tell DCD it was not a good idea to pull the child and hide her. I told him it looked really bad on his part if he did that....

I also did tell him to get a custody agreement, which he is....

Thanks both of you
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:00 PM
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You have to realize too that the people on the child emergency or permission-to-pick-up file is usually people BOTH parents agree to do the picking up.

This child's situation and living arrangements have changed, therefore I would protect my own butt and ONLY allow the legal guardians (parents) pick up.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
You have to realize too that the people on the child emergency or permission-to-pick-up file is usually people BOTH parents agree to do the picking up.

This child's situation and living arrangements have changed, therefore I would protect my own butt and ONLY allow the legal guardians (parents) pick up.
sounds like a plan... I did plan to have it this way,but just wanted to make sure that I was within my own rights of doing so..

thanks cat
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:14 PM
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Call licensing ASAP and ask them.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:18 PM
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Not sure if he's done so already but....instead of waiting for the slow poke family court system to get him in there and nail down a custody order if the child has lived in the current state for six months or more he can file a temporary emergency custody petition which would bar anyone from taking the child out of state until a judge has had time to review the circumstances and put a permanent order in place.


He could have this sorted by the end of the day if he was genuinely in fear mom would try to somehow get her to Michigan.



I too would not release to anyone but a custodial parent at this point. Grandparents are not custodial parents and even if she pitches a fit and calls the police you are well within your rights. I'd make sure at that point that law enforcement let her know she was no longer welcome on your property and she'll be considered tresspassing if she tries to interfere again.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:37 PM
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Call licensing ASAP and ask them.
I did on friday, but never got a call back...go figure
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:02 PM
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I did on friday, but never got a call back...go figure
Great. Big help there, huh?

I have a similar situation right now. I was told by my licensing worker that only people who truly have a legal right to pick up/physical custody is the parents. BUT there are many gray areas when there is not a legal document in place. It is in the best interest of the child(ren) to get some sort of document in place for you to follow.

Unfortunately, my legal document is a restraining order and I have no choice but to call the police if it is violated. Sad, sad situation for everyone involved but especially the kids.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:25 PM
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You do NOT have to release the child to the grandparent. I would type up a letter (from dad to you) stating that grandmother is not allowed to pick the child up, effective immediately, and that if she shows up to call him. Have him signh it. I would also have him give you a new list of emergency contacts.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:27 PM
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You do NOT have to release the child to the grandparent. I would type up a letter (from dad to you) stating that grandmother is not allowed to pick the child up, effective immediately, and that if she shows up to call him. Have him signh it. I would also have him give you a new list of emergency contacts.
crystal,,,,,

do you know if the DCM who lives out of state can give me written permission via email or mail to release the child to her mother since they are both on the forms??
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:30 PM
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Wow, what a mess for you.

I would call licensing again.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:34 PM
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crystal,,,,,

do you know if the DCM who lives out of state can give me written permission via email or mail to release the child to her mother since they are both on the forms??
I would venture a no here since how do you REALLY know that it is the mother who was sending the e-mail?

Plus, I think her moving to another state and residing there means she has voided her end of the contract with you since you...kwim?

I also think that unless she had a (temporary or permanent) agreement with the DCD about coming back, I would think moving to another state would qualify as abandonment and DCD shouldn't have trouble getting a temporary custody order at all.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:42 PM
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crystal,,,,,

do you know if the DCM who lives out of state can give me written permission via email or mail to release the child to her mother since they are both on the forms??
Well, she can, BUT that doesn't mean you have to release the child to her. If she does that, I would simply reply that DCD is not comfortable with her picking up and because he is the parent you are now working with, that you refuse to release the child to anyone other than who has instructed you to release to.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:27 PM
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While this is all getting sorted out, lock your doors at all times. The last thing you need is the grandma showing up and it being a huge scene for the poor child, seems like she's going through enough right now.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:34 PM
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While this is all getting sorted out, lock your doors at all times. The last thing you need is the grandma showing up and it being a huge scene for the poor child, seems like she's going through enough right now.
my doors automatically lock at all times, CA large LIC law. SO I am not worried about that.

Thanks to all of you that responded. I still have not heard back from licensing, but have decided to just follow your advice from here. I hope that licensing does call me back, I would just like to hear what they have to say and want to double check on this.

I feel really bad for this dad. He is a really super sweet guy and his wife is really starting to create a lot of unnecessary drama (like there ever is a time when it is necessary...lol) I just feel bad for the DCD and DCG, as she is the one who will be affected by it the most in the long term.

I just got off the phone with DCD and I reassured him that grandma or any other person would not be allowed to take DCG from my care, unless he tells me in person along with a signed letter otherwise. I told him that if anyone came and tried to pick her up that I would call the police and then call him right away.

He said he felt better about it and would bring DCG tomorrow, but was going to stay local in the area for work because he still thinks something bad is going to happen... Ugh I can not even imagine being in his shoes.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:01 PM
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SO I finally got to talk to licensing today and they gave me an answer to all of my questions.

Basically, since both mom and dad are on the paper work and there is nothing in writing from the courts this means that they have 50-50 custody until a court order states other wise. It does not matter where the parents reside.

SO with that being said, that means that both mom and dad can make request as to who can or can't take the child from the childcare.

Since the mom is on the paper work, she can follow my PHB, which states you must put it in writing that one of your alternate will pick up from care. This means that if the mom wants her mother to pick up DCG from care, and I have the proper paper work from the mom, then I have to release the dcg to g-ma.

the only way that I can get out of having to release the DCG to g-ma is if she tried to pick up without written permission of either parent or if there is a court order stating so.

Looks like this could get messy. Right now things are shaky, but not to the point that it is causing me much stress.

DCG was here today and was as happy as could be. I did tell dad the news, but told him that I can call him if ever there is such a request from the mom and he can deal with it.

Just wanted to update and say thank you to everyone who was kind enough to help me out with their advice.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:23 AM
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SO I finally got to talk to licensing today and they gave me an answer to all of my questions.

Basically, since both mom and dad are on the paper work and there is nothing in writing from the courts this means that they have 50-50 custody until a court order states other wise. It does not matter where the parents reside.

SO with that being said, that means that both mom and dad can make request as to who can or can't take the child from the childcare.

Since the mom is on the paper work, she can follow my PHB, which states you must put it in writing that one of your alternate will pick up from care. This means that if the mom wants her mother to pick up DCG from care, and I have the proper paper work from the mom, then I have to release the dcg to g-ma.

the only way that I can get out of having to release the DCG to g-ma is if she tried to pick up without written permission of either parent or if there is a court order stating so.

Looks like this could get messy. Right now things are shaky, but not to the point that it is causing me much stress.

DCG was here today and was as happy as could be. I did tell dad the news, but told him that I can call him if ever there is such a request from the mom and he can deal with it.

Just wanted to update and say thank you to everyone who was kind enough to help me out with their advice.
Still sounds like the same advice as we gave.

Why not void the contract you have with the family. Have dad re-fill out the paperwork with his info only.

Have him file for IMMEDIATE temporary custody (due to his fear of mom removing child from state) and then problem in solved.

Plus, you said mom has to give written permission for grandma to pick up. How is she going to get written permission to you? Grandma could write a note herself and say it is from mom.

I would NOT want to be in the middle of this at all unless dad does the necessary paperwork to protect you, himself and his son.

Just curious, is there reason why dad has not filed any kind of custody papers with the courts?
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:33 AM
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Still sounds like the same advice as we gave.

Why not void the contract you have with the family. Have dad re-fill out the paperwork with his info only.

Have him file for IMMEDIATE temporary custody (due to his fear of mom removing child from state) and then problem in solved.

Plus, you said mom has to give written permission for grandma to pick up. How is she going to get written permission to you? Grandma could write a note herself and say it is from mom.

I would NOT want to be in the middle of this at all unless dad does the necessary paperwork to protect you, himself and his son.

Just curious, is there reason why dad has not filed any kind of custody papers with the courts?
BC.... thats a really really good question... I am not sure why he has not filed. I do belive that he was thinking that everything was working out so well with him and the mom outside of courts that it was not necessary. (a big mistake a lot of people make) I did tell him he should get a jurisdiction order immediately so that the child cannot be removed from the state. He told me that he was going to take Friday off of work to do that and I offered a day of free care to let him do so. (I love being the owner).

Dad has been very good about everything and I know he feel very embarrassed about all of this. I truly do feel for him and his daughter. BTDT......

As for the paperwork, can I legally do that? I can void all of their paper work and remove the mother? As you can tell, I have never been in such a situation like this so I am really learning a lot through all of this. Trust me when I say I wish I didn't have to learn about all of this.....

OH and last night I got a very very nice email from the mother. She apologized for what happened and told me she would never do such a thing to her daughter or EX. She told me that they were in the mist of a huge fight and she said many things that she now regrets. It was a very nice email, but I still don't hold it to any higher grounds.

If I can, I will have dad refill all of the paperwork with only his name on it. BUT the mom is still the mom and I don't know if that will relive her of being able to make decisions for her child???
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:40 AM
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find a reason to void the old contract maybe have everyone who has not signed a contract in more than two years sign a new one and an updated "pick up list" (I know that is not what the state calls it) That way you are doing it to ensure you have u todate enformation on all the children.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:47 AM
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As for the paperwork, can I legally do that? I can void all of their paper work and remove the mother? As you can tell, I have never been in such a situation like this so I am really learning a lot through all of this. Trust me when I say I wish I didn't have to learn about all of this.....

OH and last night I got a very very nice email from the mother. She apologized for what happened and told me she would never do such a thing to her daughter or EX. She told me that they were in the mist of a huge fight and she said many things that she now regrets. It was a very nice email, but I still don't hold it to any higher grounds.

If I can, I will have dad refill all of the paperwork with only his name on it. BUT the mom is still the mom and I don't know if that will relive her of being able to make decisions for her child???
I honestly don't know if that would relieve you of any obligations toward mom but simply use the loophole that anytime ANYTHING changes in a child's household (such as a parent/relative leaving or moving in etc) requires new paperwork to be filled out.

That way the only paperwork/contract that would be current, on file with you and enforceable would be the one only dad signs. If mom is in another state and can't a separate contract for her, then so be it...kwim?

I would have dad refill out the info as a single dad since mom is NOT living in the home (which I am assuming he can prove) so there ya go...new contract updates requiring parent signature if anything just buys you some time.

NOT saying it is the way to go but it surely sounds like it could be a viable way around all this mess until dad gets his paperwork taken care of.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:14 PM
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Just saw this stroy....happened near me today:

http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archiv...d-by-moth.html
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:18 PM
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Just saw this stroy....happened near me today:

http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archiv...d-by-moth.html
OMG crystal my worst nightmare...

BTW I talked to LIC again this morning and they told me that even if the DCD was to fill out the paper work again without putting the mom on it, that does not remove the mothers rights. Only a court order can stop the mother or Gma from their rights ANF further more, the G-ma is on the paper as an authorized pick up, which means that even though my PHB rules state that I will not release any child without written authorization first, that if the gma came to pick up the child I have to give the child to her.....The parents already gave their permission when they filled out the LIC form 700.....

Ughhhhhhhhh Great job at helping me keep the kids safe..........
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