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daycare 08:53 PM 01-25-2016
Trying to wrap my head around this FCCERS stuff. Geerr

I was observed and docked points because I didn't spray down the sink and clean it in between each use.

So I'm supposed to have a child wash hands and then clean the sink each and every time???

OMG I'm going to be sick from all of these spraying chemicals I am being told to spray. No way am I doing that.

Can anyone help explain how they do this ?????
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Controlled Chaos 09:22 PM 01-25-2016
You have got to be kidding me
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spedmommy4 09:23 PM 01-25-2016
No. It has to be sanitized between TYPES of use.

So, say the kids go potty and wash their hands, that's one type. Before hand washing for snack or food prep, that sink has to be sanitized.

Alternatively, you can use two different sinks. One for hand washing after toileting and the other for hand washing for meal prep, etc.

If the observer told you anything different, they are interpreting it incorrectly.

Honestly, I just take a points hit on hand washing. I don't have time to sanitize the sink 10 times a day.
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daycare 09:29 PM 01-25-2016
OMG I don't honestly understand what was marked down, it doesn't make any sense at all.

I wash my hands with the kids to model how to wash hands and thn when we are done I wash my hands. I got docked points for doing that.

I guess I'm taking hits for hand washing. No way am I cleaning my sink that many times. The paint on my walls is already coming off from too much washing with chemicals.

Plus it's much more unhealthy for me to Inhale those fumes than to not wash it after each translation use.

But I do sanatize it after we come in from out doors. The kids are very messy.
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Josiegirl 02:40 AM 01-26-2016
Is there nothing said about what you should be using to sanitize everything? It's okay to inhale megafumes all day but afraid of getting a germ on your hands?? Honestly, I think they're going way over board on all this stuff. Do any of you remember washing your hands in a 25 step procedure(ok, exaggerating a little) or every 5 minutes when you were little? We all got normal germs, sicknesses, overcame it and get better. I truly believe we need to handle a little germ exposure to develop our own immunity systems. It's just like kids, if we protect them their whole childhood how will they ever face adult problems?
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snbauser 04:22 AM 01-26-2016
You can always ask for clarification. But like someone above said, you are supposed to sanitize in between types of use. If the kids come in from outside and wash hands before playing inside and then someone uses the sink after toileting/diapers then you are supposed to sanitize in between. Same if someone uses the sink to wash after toileting/diapers and then someone uses the sink for something other than toileting/diapering - sanitize in between.
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Thriftylady 04:52 AM 01-26-2016
Goodness from all you all post about these programs, it makes me wonder how anyone is supposed to actually spend any time with the children.
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Blackcat31 05:33 AM 01-26-2016
Originally Posted by daycare:
Trying to wrap my head around this FCCERS stuff. Geerr

I was observed and docked points because I didn't spray down the sink and clean it in between each use.

So I'm supposed to have a child wash hands and then clean the sink each and every time???

OMG I'm going to be sick from all of these spraying chemicals I am being told to spray. No way am I doing that.

Can anyone help explain how they do this ?????
Taken directly from the FCCERs handbook:

Hand washing at the sink should be conducted individually. For example, each child should wash hands, not having to share the sink and water, and the Teachers should not consider that their hands have been washed because they have washed the hands of the child. The teachers, as we as the child, should independently wash hands using the following procedure:

1. Moisten hands with warm water and using liquid soap.
2. Rub hands together for 10 seconds (sing 1 verse of “Row, Row, Row Your Boat”).
3. Rinse hands free of soap under warm running water.
4. Dry hands with a clean, disposable paper towel or air dry with a blower.
5. Turn the faucet off with the paper towel and then throw the paper towel away in a hands-free
trash container

Same Sink Sanitization


Definition: When using the “same sink” for washing hands between different routines staff must spray the sink (inside and outside including the faucet) with bleach water solution and either let solution sit for 2 minutes before wiping with a
paper towel or allow to air dry.

*If the same sink is used by either children or adults for both diapering/toileting and food-related routines (including tooth brushing) or for other purposes (to wash toys/other classroom equipment; after wiping noses; upon re-entry into the room; before or after sand/water play; before or after art or messy play; etc.), it must be sanitized by spraying sink and faucets with a bleach solution after diapering/toileting use and either let solution sit for 2 minutes before wiping with a paper towel or allow to air dry. All use of the sink for one purpose can be completed before the sink needs to be sanitized for another use.

**********************************************

We were told that 99% of providers that are docked points in this area is due to not doing the above (in red).
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Annalee 07:08 AM 01-26-2016
FCCERS-R here is similar.....it is a bunch of hogwash but if you want to get the score, you have to comply Sanitizing is a huge issue here with the 2 minute wait time!

Daycare, I do understand your frustration, though! I generally score well but even then, there always seems to be that one thing marked that I think "REALLY"???? Too many times the marks come from perception or the assessor NOT seeing something that she is HIGHLY TRAINED to see!???
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Ariana 09:57 AM 01-26-2016
With these restrictions you'd think you are washing farm animals after they rolled in their own filth
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KIDZRMYBIZ 10:08 AM 01-26-2016
What a nightmare. I cannot even imagine the stress of running a QRS rated daycare. Wow. And something like this is just one drip in the bucket. I would lose my mind.
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midaycare 10:23 AM 01-26-2016
We are over-sanitizing, IMO. Everywhere, not just at daycare. But I have found that they feel the need to write up something. I don't know anyone who has a perfect visit.

I was written up for my emergency exit plan. Not because it wasn't detailed enough, or correctly formatted...it was TOO detailed Since thay was the only thing written up, I think she was just desperate.
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Josiegirl 10:27 AM 01-26-2016
I've signed up to take a training on what the STARs assessors want from us when they come into our daycares. It will be interesting to say the least.

Do schools have to keep to this level of sanitizing also?
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Silly Songs 10:35 AM 01-26-2016
We are not told to sanitize between using the sink for different activities. That's crazy. Each child individually uses a sink, but if it's messy I just rinse it afterwards.
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Annalee 10:42 AM 01-26-2016
The FCCERS-R is mandated here annually. If it was voluntary, I would NOT DO IT! After 14 times for me, preparing for my 15th, It gradually has become a game so you decide how high you want to score! Yep, my has turned to in my old age....becoming delirious at all the state's unrealistic expectations.
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daycare 01:21 PM 01-26-2016
I was not given an explanation as to why, it was just docked.

So I have no clue why.

I clean the bathroom every morning with bleach before the kids arrive.

I do sanitize the sinks after we come in from outside, because normally there is mud drips every where. I clean the light switch, the door knob, the faucet handles and the sink, plus the toilet handle. every day at nap time.

then I don't do it again until the following day.

so I don't know what I am doing wrong, if that is the wrong way, but I can tell you this. I am asthmatic. I run 8-10 miles a day and my lungs never give me an issue. I don't ever need my inhaler when I run. Oh and don't get me started on my hands and nails.

The only time I need my inhaler is when I clean the daycare.... Which is every day before kids arrive at nap time and again when they leave. Those chemicals reek havoc on my lungs.

looking at the results, they make my house sound like a dirty mess and that is the one thing that every single person says to me when they first walk in. WOW your house is super clean.

Oh well, I excelled at all of the other areas but one, so I guess I shouldn't really complain too much.
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Thriftylady 01:24 PM 01-26-2016
DD has asthma and I have allergies. We both have issues with cleaners. Can you make a weak bleach water to use so it won't bother you so much or does it have to be a commercial cleaner?
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daycare 01:30 PM 01-26-2016
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
DD has asthma and I have allergies. We both have issues with cleaners. Can you make a weak bleach water to use so it won't bother you so much or does it have to be a commercial cleaner?
I can use other cleaners to their manufactures instructions, which I do.

I just think this is NUTS..

Like someone else said. Do elementary schools have to do this??
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daycare 01:33 PM 01-26-2016
Sorry, I wanted to ask.

If elementary schools don't have to do it, then why do we? Why do we have to go kujo on the germs in our house?
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Unregistered 01:55 PM 01-26-2016
Originally Posted by daycare:
I can use other cleaners to their manufactures instructions, which I do.

I just think this is NUTS..

Like someone else said. Do elementary schools have to do this??
This is insane. This is our home, jeez!
I AM SO HAPPY I DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS!
I'm good working off referrels, I don't need/want the rating.
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Laurel 02:09 PM 01-26-2016
Originally Posted by daycare:
Sorry, I wanted to ask.

If elementary schools don't have to do it, then why do we? Why do we have to go kujo on the germs in our house?
No telling. That is just nuts. We did not have the stars program and didn't have to do that.

What might work (it did for me with wiping diaper changing pad) is telling the inspector that there are allergies in the house and you can't be spraying so much as it makes you sick. Tell them you are afraid inhaling that is harmful for the children as well. Sometimes they will back off if it is presented as a health issue. My husband has allergies and asthma (and he wasn't home most of the time) but I told her that I can't be spraying in the house so use those Lysol type wipes for the pad. She said that was okay.

Another thing is that you have a right to know WHY she made that decision. We were always told to politely ask that she put the reason in writing on our inspection report. Also, as long as you are polite, you could ask her to show you the text in your ordinance that confirms what she is asking you to do. One time I asked her to show me in the ordinance and she couldn't so she didn't write it down. She made a big deal about it being 'recommended' though. Recommended Shrekomended, I wasn't going to do it.
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Silly Songs 02:20 PM 01-26-2016
We do t use bleach in our center. Only one of the centers I ever worked in used bleach. There are other cleaners we use, but they are supplied by janitorial supply and I don't know the name. Really, all that bleach is not good for the children or the adults.
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daycare 02:28 PM 01-26-2016
Originally Posted by Laurel:
No telling. That is just nuts. We did not have the stars program and didn't have to do that.

What might work (it did for me with wiping diaper changing pad) is telling the inspector that there are allergies in the house and you can't be spraying so much as it makes you sick. Tell them you are afraid inhaling that is harmful for the children as well. Sometimes they will back off if it is presented as a health issue. My husband has allergies and asthma (and he wasn't home most of the time) but I told her that I can't be spraying in the house so use those Lysol type wipes for the pad. She said that was okay.

Another thing is that you have a right to know WHY she made that decision. We were always told to politely ask that she put the reason in writing on our inspection report. Also, as long as you are polite, you could ask her to show you the text in your ordinance that confirms what she is asking you to do. One time I asked her to show me in the ordinance and she couldn't so she didn't write it down. She made a big deal about it being 'recommended' though. Recommended Shrekomended, I wasn't going to do it.
funny you should say that, because I told them that we have 4 kids with astma and myself. which I even showed them the documented proof. they still didn't care
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Annalee 04:39 PM 01-26-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
This is insane. This is our home, jeez!
I AM SO HAPPY I DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS!
I'm good working off referrels, I don't need/want the rating.
I am good at staying full with children as well, but the state STILL mandates the assessment. I don't get a choice. If you are licensed, it is only a matter of time before QRIS comes to your state in some form.
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AmyKidsCo 08:27 PM 01-26-2016
And THIS is one reason why I decline to participate in WI's QRS system, YoungStar. Currently it's voluntary, unless you want to accept families who receive child care assistance.

We also have the choice of just sending in our paperwork and not go through a formal rating, but then you can't earn higher than 3 stars.

What frustrates me is that the majority of the things they rate on have little or no bearing on the actual quality of care. I could have a perfectly sanitary sink but be a real b*tch with the children.
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daycare 08:54 PM 01-26-2016
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
And THIS is one reason why I decline to participate in WI's QRS system, YoungStar. Currently it's voluntary, unless you want to accept families who receive child care assistance.

We also have the choice of just sending in our paperwork and not go through a formal rating, but then you can't earn higher than 3 stars.

What frustrates me is that the majority of the things they rate on have little or no bearing on the actual quality of care. I could have a perfectly sanitary sink but be a real b*tch with the children.
See here we also have a class evaluation conducted which rates the quality of interactions that you have with the kids.

I just hate how contradicting all of my reports were.

We also have to have health screens or physical exams done yearly too
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daycarediva 03:37 AM 01-27-2016
I have the kids go to the restroom after meals, wash their hands and THEN brush their teeth. Same thing I do with my own kids. BUT, I would have to sanitize the sink after the used it to wash hands after going potty, wait 2 mins PER CHILD, and THEN have them brush their teeth.

The alternative would be to have them all use the potty/wash hands and then re-line up to brush their teeth AFTER I have sanitized the sink. That would take FOREVER.
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Annalee 04:51 AM 01-27-2016
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
And THIS is one reason why I decline to participate in WI's QRS system, YoungStar. Currently it's voluntary, unless you want to accept families who receive child care assistance.

We also have the choice of just sending in our paperwork and not go through a formal rating, but then you can't earn higher than 3 stars.

What frustrates me is that the majority of the things they rate on have little or no bearing on the actual quality of care. I could have a perfectly sanitary sink but be a real b*tch with the children.
Providers here were told in the beginning it would be voluntary, but look where we are now..it is in the law....you either complete it or loose your license.....when I hear other state's providers talk about choosing to participate or not, I always thing "I wish it was that simple".....it is just a matter of time before ALL states implement and do not give providers a choice.
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Hunni Bee 06:26 AM 01-27-2016
Originally Posted by daycare:
OMG I don't honestly understand what was marked down, it doesn't make any sense at all.

I wash my hands with the kids to model how to wash hands and thn when we are done I wash my hands. I got docked points for doing that.

I guess I'm taking hits for hand washing. No way am I cleaning my sink that many times. The paint on my walls is already coming off from too much washing with chemicals.

Plus it's much more unhealthy for me to Inhale those fumes than to not wash it after each translation use.

But I do sanatize it after we come in from out doors. The kids are very messy.
I can't with ECERS. We don't have to do it at my current center because we're licensed and NAEYC accredited, but at my old job we did it.

I got marked down for removing the trash can lid for two seconds so a special needs child could throw his trash away, instead of doing it for him or letting him contaminate his whole arm because he couldn't manage the swing lid. I washed my hands immediately after.

I think it's wildly open to interpretation.
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Laurel 07:17 AM 01-27-2016
Originally Posted by daycare:
funny you should say that, because I told them that we have 4 kids with astma and myself. which I even showed them the documented proof. they still didn't care
That's when I'd speak to this person's supervisor. Sometimes a provider here would speak to a supervisor and quite often this supervisor would side with the provider. No one should be able to ask you to compromise your health or the health of the children. I'd approach it like "I need to double check this as it doesn't make sense to me. I can't spray this much cleaner around asthmatics. It isn't safe. What alternative would you suggest so I could stay within the guidelines?" Put the problem on THEM.

We also had a group of providers form a childcare provider association. We had monthly meetings, offered a training, and actually had a little clout as a professional group. It was started years ago by a provider for support and we successfully fought some unfair regulations over the years. If you don't have one, consider starting it yourself.
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Blackcat31 07:29 AM 01-27-2016
Originally Posted by daycare:
funny you should say that, because I told them that we have 4 kids with astma and myself. which I even showed them the documented proof. they still didn't care
Licensing would tell you to not spray bleach or irritating cleaners around the children in the first place. They shouldn't be in the area when cleaning and especially not if they are asthmatic.

As for you, I'd have one of my non-asthmatic assistants do the cleaning then or I would wear a mask to protect myself from the irritants.

Here is a really great resource for your state in regards to alternatives to bleach and using alternate sanitizing and cleaning solutions. Alternate options are listed clearly beginning on page 30.

http://www.sfgov3.org/modules/showdo...ocumentid=2158
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daycare 08:06 AM 01-27-2016
I would never dream of spraying anything while the kids are near by, but it remains in the envionrment. As an asthmatic, I am sooo sensitive to these things.

the place I have the most asthma attacks is at the hospital from all of the chemicals in the air that they use to clean with. I used to go meet my husband for dinner when he worked at the hospital and had to stop because of what would happen every time I went. I talked to my Pulmonologist about it and he said it would be best if I just didn't go to the hospital anymore unless it was for medical reasons.

My bathrooms don't have windows, only fans and it doesn't matter where in the house we sprayed them, the amount they are asking us to spray just lingers and
is going to kill me eventually. I refuse to wear a mask in my own home.

This is just one thing I have already decided they can just ding me.

My dcks are very healthy kids, I should knock on wood, other than seasonal colds, we have not even had the flu go through here.
QRIS is not mandatory here and they are saying that funding more than likely will not be here any time soon to make it mandatory if ever.

The funniest part is that QRIS is of ZERO benefit to me because I do not take any form of assistance. My rating will not even be posted. It will only be used for data, as we are in the trial phases. I just volunteered to see what it was all about in case they did make it mandatory.
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Blackcat31 08:56 AM 01-27-2016
Originally Posted by daycare:
I would never dream of spraying anything while the kids are near by, but it remains in the envionrment. As an asthmatic, I am sooo sensitive to these things.

the place I have the most asthma attacks is at the hospital from all of the chemicals in the air that they use to clean with. I used to go meet my husband for dinner when he worked at the hospital and had to stop because of what would happen every time I went. I talked to my Pulmonologist about it and he said it would be best if I just didn't go to the hospital anymore unless it was for medical reasons.

My bathrooms don't have windows, only fans and it doesn't matter where in the house we sprayed them, the amount they are asking us to spray just lingers and
is going to kill me eventually. I refuse to wear a mask in my own home.

This is just one thing I have already decided they can just ding me.

My dcks are very healthy kids, I should knock on wood, other than seasonal colds, we have not even had the flu go through here.
QRIS is not mandatory here and they are saying that funding more than likely will not be here any time soon to make it mandatory if ever.

The funniest part is that QRIS is of ZERO benefit to me because I do not take any form of assistance. My rating will not even be posted. It will only be used for data, as we are in the trial phases. I just volunteered to see what it was all about in case they did make it mandatory.
prefaced with I know tone is difficult to convey via text but seriously? (bolded part)

If you are refusing to wear a mask in your own home to prevent you from experiencing what could be a life threatening situation is silly in my opinion.


I value my health and well being much more than I value my right to do as I please in my own home.

The link I attached offers some good AND acceptable alternative solutions.
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renodeb 09:09 AM 01-27-2016
But they should not be using the same sink for after toileting and food in the first place. I don't think we have to wipe down between each use. That's crazy!
Debbie
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daycare 09:44 AM 01-27-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
prefaced with I know tone is difficult to convey via text but seriously? (bolded part)

If you are refusing to wear a mask in your own home to prevent you from experiencing what could be a life threatening situation is silly in my opinion.


I value my health and well being much more than I value my right to do as I please in my own home.

The link I attached offers some good AND acceptable alternative solutions.
I am just going to be preventive and not even spray it. I think that is nuts to spray that much of anything in my own home, to which I don't agree with their reasoning of wiping out all of the germs.

if it were a job outside of my home that required it, then I would not even apply for that job.
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Laurel 11:27 AM 01-27-2016
Originally Posted by daycare:
I am just going to be preventive and not even spray it. I think that is nuts to spray that much of anything in my own home, to which I don't agree with their reasoning of wiping out all of the germs.

if it were a job outside of my home that required it, then I would not even apply for that job.


I wouldn't either.
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