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hoopinglady 02:09 PM 11-17-2011
So licensing says that I could get a variance for 3 extra school agers if they
a. are siblings or previous dcks
and
b. if they are not here for more than a month at a time


So, were I to fill up this year, I would not have room for my 2-3 ex dcks siblings during the summer months.

To me, honestly, this is great news. I love the kids but I don't like having a houseful of rowdy school agers mixing with the little ones. Also, one of the SAs in question is.....very challenging (the 7 y.o. poops in his pants I posted about a while back...among other things)

My only concern is alienating the existing families.
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Blackcat31 02:21 PM 11-17-2011
Originally Posted by hoopinglady:
So licensing says that I could get a variance for 3 extra school agers if they
a. are siblings or previous dcks
and
b. if they are not here for more than a month at a time


So, were I to fill up this year, I would not have room for my 2-3 ex dcks siblings during the summer months.

To me, honestly, this is great news. I love the kids but I don't like having a houseful of rowdy school agers mixing with the little ones. Also, one of the SAs in question is.....very challenging (the 7 y.o. poops in his pants I posted about a while back...among other things)

My only concern is alienating the existing families.
You are not. Licensing is the rule maker. You run a business. If the parents of the SA'ers don't want to pay to keep the spaces you have wide open for when they do need them, then it is their choice not yours.

When I made the move to stop taking SA'er (whether they had siblings in care or not) it was the BEST move I ever made!!

Emotionally, physically, financially and in general.
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hoopinglady 06:29 AM 11-18-2011
Yeah, true, it'd be out of my hands.

All of my clients have older siblings though and I am a little nervous on how they'll receive the change.

Frankly, when I think about not taking SA, even though they've been a bit of a financial supplement, it is a HUGE relief.

I really think I have to do this, ratios notwithstanding.
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Blackcat31 07:52 AM 11-18-2011
For me personally, not having SA'ers was like a life changing event. I used to think all my trouble were becuase the little ones were soooo much work, but in reality the littles only seemed like a lot of work because I was so stressedout by the SA kids and all the things that come along from having them.

I think it was Nannyde that said SA actually require more supervision and work than the littles and I honestly didn't buy it........until I no longer took them.

SHE WAS 100% RIGHT!!! (See her post below)

My SA'ers weren't bad kids in general, just not very self-motivating, catty and seemed to look for little things to get in trouble for just for the attention. They never seemed to be able to play without some sort of intervention from me. They tattled more than the little ones and complained about food, toys, games, other kids, rules etc etc...

I think that once they reach school, they are just so used to having someone tell them what to do next and next, that they were not really able to occupy themselves any more. They are also trained to tell an adult if there is an issue at school with another kid, when at most childcares. we are teaching kids to practice conflict managment on their own and not tattle. The schoolers tattle ALOT!!!

Are there any programs in your area that are designed just for school age kids so the parents at least have options?
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mismatchedsocks 07:54 AM 11-18-2011
How would that work for summer? They would be there more then a month right?

Or are you asking about that and taking other kids and not having room for them? What does the month things specifically say? Can they take a day off then come back for a month? I would find that out first.

Also I keep the siblings of current younger daycare kids in summer and days off IF i have room. Hard to hold a spot for them, without pay.
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nannyde 07:58 AM 11-18-2011
Originally Posted by hoopinglady:
Yeah, true, it'd be out of my hands.

All of my clients have older siblings though and I am a little nervous on how they'll receive the change.

Frankly, when I think about not taking SA, even though they've been a bit of a financial supplement, it is a HUGE relief.

I really think I have to do this, ratios notwithstanding.
I think one of the main problems with school agers is a notion that their care should be less expensive because we can have more of them than any other age group or have some of them with the mixed ages.

The truth is that school agers are (for the most part) the hardest age group and mixing them in with the youngsters is a safety risk in many situations. I think providers would be more willing to take them if they received fair compensation.

The school agers often come with the younger siblings who are the "core" group of the providers income. Providers feel obligated to keep them for the parents convienience and often keep them for a markedly less weekly rate.

The best thing to do is to START the relationship with the understanding that once they have outgrown nap they have outgrown your program or once they go off to kindy they have outgrown your program. This gives parents the full understanding that as they continue to have children... the older children will age out before their newer children.

Back in the day it wasn't that difficult to integrate school agers with littles. The five and six year olds did take a nap. Now we have young toddlers not taking naps so by the time they are five or six it's been YEARS since they have slept during the day.

Now not only do they not nap... they require more supervision than most young babies and toddlers. In a split second they can ROCK YOUR WORLD. They can cause more damage, injury to the other kids, and conflict between provider and parent and the other children then all of the other kids combined.

They have been raised their entire life with a point, touch and screen life. The only activities they enjoy are very high end... adult generated and participated... and NEW. They have obesity issues at an ever alarming rise. The obesity epidemic is the END product of low exercise, bad diet, and screen play.

This generation of school agers are the children of the first wave of "entitlement" "me" generation. What you see with them is the product of having BOTH parent and child entitled.

Bit by bit providers across the US and Canada are turning away the money because it's really not profitable for how incredibly hard it is. Doing direct care for ten straight hours with children who need SO much supervision and adult involvement needs to be paid at a VERY high hourly rate. Since parents don't want to pay that... the state won't pay that... the providers are saying no to it.

Once it becomes common for providers to refuse them THEN the price will go up.

I know there are providers here that do school agers and do it well. I've been on daycare boards since 98 and I think the number of providers I know who do it are becoming WAY less than it was ten years ago. Just by viewing my states provider registry... you can see the percentage who offer it are small and often they are newbies. It's rare to FIND an experienced provider who will consider it because it's too hard and the liability is too high.

They SHOULD be the easiest age group but they are not. That's the sad part.
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hoopinglady 08:10 AM 11-18-2011
Ten years ago, I had SA in my program who didn't even want to go outside to play.

Yes, I do find it to be dangerous too. They are rough with one another and with the toys...then there's the situation of coming up appropriate toys, spaces and activities.

Totally spot on about the school's influence too, Blackcat. I've seen kids I cared for since 2 or 3 go to school and come back having forgotten how to play.

It's a tragedy for sure. By school age they are into video games and that's about it.

The truth is I feel like I need to take a specific age range as long as I'm working alone in this small space.

If I had a larger space and/or an assistant or two I could have a baby and or school age program.

It's sad...I wonder if all the work I do providing open ended play is for nothing? Once they leave here and go into the school system is that all undone?

That makes me want to open for school agers only....I'm a sucker for a project, lol.
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Country Kids 08:44 AM 11-18-2011
I love my SA! They are a great group and wish at times that all I had. Here's the upside to my SA.

1. Can eat without having food everywhere/no spilling of milk.

2. Don't need help in the bathroom/can wash their hands themselves/No diaper changing

3. Will sit and watch a movie/not get bored with it and started acting up.

4. Can actually play games for hours/marble runs/train tracks/they can have small parts

5. We can do really, really fun field trips and they understand what the person is talking about/No carseats!!!!

6. Do not cry over everything, share pretty good

7. Love being outside and playing for hours/going for walks

8. Will do the harder crafts/open minded imagination things

9. Can do spur of the moment things-no need for naps, diaper changes, can tell me when they need to go to the bathroom and its not every 15 min.

10. I love my SA-

Looking at this list, maybe I should go into just them!!!! I love my preschoolers but my SA are so self sufficent. I never realized till I made this list. Also, my one son who is in elementary school loves when they don't have school because he really likes this group and loves having them here all day to play with.
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Blackcat31 08:49 AM 11-18-2011
Country Kids, you have some pretty rare school agers.

The ones I had could maybe have managed one or two things on your list...


I would have seriously reconsider keeping them if they could have managed atleast half that.
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sharlan 08:55 AM 11-18-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I love my SA! They are a great group and wish at times that all I had. Here's the upside to my SA.

1. Can eat without having food everywhere/no spilling of milk.

2. Don't need help in the bathroom/can wash their hands themselves/No diaper changing

3. Will sit and watch a movie/not get bored with it and started acting up.

4. Can actually play games for hours/marble runs/train tracks/they can have small parts

5. We can do really, really fun field trips and they understand what the person is talking about/No carseats!!!!

6. Do not cry over everything, share pretty good

7. Love being outside and playing for hours/going for walks

8. Will do the harder crafts/open minded imagination things

9. Can do spur of the moment things-no need for naps, diaper changes, can tell me when they need to go to the bathroom and its not every 15 min.

10. I love my SA-

Looking at this list, maybe I should go into just them!!!! I love my preschoolers but my SA are so self sufficent. I never realized till I made this list.
Here's 2 of my schoolagers (the boys)
#1 - makes a bigger mess and leaves it
#2 - has to be reminded every single time to wash hands
#3 - cannot sit still for 5 mins - if does, has to talk continually so no one else can hear
#4 - cannot play anything for 5 mins
#5 - cannot stop talking long enough to hear the person talking
#6 - ok, doesn't cry, but doesn't know how to share
#7 & #8 - not for longer than 5 mins
#9 - I agree here
#10 - I AM trying
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Country Kids 09:00 AM 11-18-2011
Right now my SA are playing a card game!!! Laughing, giggling and have a grand old time. One preschooler is screaming in time out becaue of not getting their way and the other one is doing pretty good just playing by themselves but we will see how long that lasts!!!!
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Tags:mixed ages, siblings
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