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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>This Kid Is Killing Me...Any Advice?
cheerfuldom 04:20 PM 12-10-2012
i had the easiest daycare baby EVER. had her on a great routine, no problems with her ever. fast foward to 6 or 7 months and I started to see some of the "hold mes" and other signs that she was sort of running the show at home. still, we were okay and then fast forward again to when I was closed for about 2.5 weeks for my maternity leave. baby went to grandmas for that time. parents also decide to wean baby off pumped breastmilk, transition her to more solids and only one nap a day....all at the same time! i know, horrible timing but i didnt know any of this until it was already done. now this little one is back with. this is her 3rd week back in my care, she is now 9 months and things are not good, to say the least.

she is hysterical from the moment she gets here till the moment she leaves. her mom knows she cries a lot and is cranky and fussy but i have not detailed everything because 1. i feel this is all caused by the massive transitions lately and it is too late to change any of that and 2. this is a very bad time for me to lose a full timer (and i feel that mom would pull child instead of working on things) and i am hoping that time adjusting will get us back on track.....but at 3 weeks back, things are actually getting worse. any advice? how long would be a reasonable time to allow for these type of changes? nothing else has changed here as far as routine or anything like that. I did add my newborn but honestly, he is the easiest baby ever. he is on the opposite routine as my daycare kids so they really dont even see him much yet and he rarely cries or anything.....i dont know that all of the kids even realize a new baby is even here.

so here is what I am seeing. lots of crying all day no matter what we do UNLESS she is let to roam the room and touch anything she wants which usually means chewing/destroying something or ripping something. she will not eat for me. she throws bottles and spits out food or just refuses the high chair. as in flailing around and acting hysterical when i try to put her in. she will pinch and hit if need be. she doesnt want to be put down of course, or put in anything like her car seat or the exersaucer. she only falls asleep after hours of crying and fights it hard. i crank up the white noise but she will start screeching at the slightest sound. she fights diaper changes. she really isnt happy no matter what I do but i also dont carry kids around or cater to the demands. i just put her down and let her cry and go about what i need to get done. if she doesnt eat, i take her out of the high chair and the meal is over. i really do think that her parents have turned an easy baby into a hysterical demanding child. she is here full time. any thoughts?
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providerandmomof4 05:20 PM 12-10-2012
Oh man...I think that I would sit down and talk with mom and tell her what's been going on. They may be having a hard time at home as well. My babies are almost 8 mths and 12 mths but truthfully, I do let them roam around everywhere. I just make sure there isn't anything down that they can destroy. There are times when I have to put them in the exersaucer and they don't like it for long but sometimes I need to do things. I have the door bouncer, and two different saucer things, right in the middle of everything. I think it helps it they don't feel secluded. Did you ask mom what she eats at home and if it's in the highchair? Maybe they haven't really been working on solid foods? You just don't know....imo you have to ask mom.
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Holiday Park 05:25 PM 12-10-2012
She is 9 months old and is given only ONE nap? I have a 8month old who gets here at 8. He wakes at 7am. I also have my 14 month old and the other 14 month old eho is here 2 days. I have them all on two naps (1.5-2 hours each nap) 9:30am & 1:30pm sometimes i might even put him down for a short cat nap around 4/5 right before mom /gramma picks up so he is not crabby on their way home and because they put him down a little later than I do my son, and he can't stay awake longer than3-4 hrs at a time. Thats with a full night sleep with 1 night feed. It sounds like the baby is very over tired.
Do you have her on a schedule at your house with two naps?
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daycare 05:38 PM 12-10-2012
She is 9 months old and is given only ONE nap

this was my first thought....she is too young for only one nap. why are they adamant about only one nap?? sounds like to me that she needs more sleep and is so overly tired that she can't enjoy her day or fall asleep when need be.

When I did take little ones at that age, I did not move them to one nap until around 14 months, sometimes longer depending on the child.

I would be talking to the DCP and let them know what is going on. I know you don't want to lose the baby, but you don't want to lose your mind either......
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cheerfuldom 06:18 PM 12-10-2012
I have talked with mom as in I know what they are doing at home....they are the "book parents" that I have mentioned before. I am fine with parents reading parenting books but the problem is that they read EVERYTHING online and listen to every person's advice and try ever single method for a day or two and when it doesnt instantly work, they try something else. i have discussed as best as possible that routine and consistency are what is needed here. i agree that this baby should be taking two naps at a day but at this point, she is not napping at all at home. there is no point in the mom trying to do two naps at home when they cant even get her to do one nap. i think it is better for both parents and me to be able to do at least one nap per day on a consistent basis. mom told me that yesterday, kid slept 11pm to 3AM and that was it for the full 24 hour period! so yes, we are absolutely dealing with an over exhausted child. in the past, i have had this child on a great routine and the parents were able to sort of follow off of what I was doing but at this point, baby is not getting back into routine here and never was on a routine at home. we had another discussion today with the parents were i again let them know what i was seeing and also recommended a book that i have in the past and which seems to be the only one they havent read LOL but i let mom know that we need to get on the same page and that nothing is going to magically change. i am fine with whatever they decide but i am not going to implement anything here only to find out that they quit doing whatever it was after a day or two. this has been the issue with everything from naps to eating to anything else that has come up with this child. they really are well intended but things are just getting crazy at this point
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daycare 06:27 PM 12-10-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I have talked with mom as in I know what they are doing at home....they are the "book parents" that I have mentioned before. I am fine with parents reading parenting books but the problem is that they read EVERYTHING online and listen to every person's advice and try ever single method for a day or two and when it doesnt instantly work, they try something else. i have discussed as best as possible that routine and consistency are what is needed here. i agree that this baby should be taking two naps at a day but at this point, she is not napping at all at home. there is no point in the mom trying to do two naps at home when they cant even get her to do one nap. i think it is better for both parents and me to be able to do at least one nap per day on a consistent basis. mom told me that yesterday, kid slept 11pm to 3AM and that was it for the full 24 hour period! so yes, we are absolutely dealing with an over exhausted child. in the past, i have had this child on a great routine and the parents were able to sort of follow off of what I was doing but at this point, baby is not getting back into routine here and never was on a routine at home. we had another discussion today with the parents were i again let them know what i was seeing and also recommended a book that i have in the past and which seems to be the only one they havent read LOL but i let mom know that we need to get on the same page and that nothing is going to magically change. i am fine with whatever they decide but i am not going to implement anything here only to find out that they quit doing whatever it was after a day or two. this has been the issue with everything from naps to eating to anything else that has come up with this child. they really are well intended but things are just getting crazy at this point
experts say that it takes 21 consistent times of the same thing happening for you to devleop a new habit, so they need to learn to give it time.

what about the childs eating? are they just not getting enough food? that really is too many changes at once, poor kid.....
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Evansmom 06:32 PM 12-10-2012
Just my 2cents but could you do what you need to do with the baby in terms of routine while she's with you and then let the parents follow along like they were before? Like possibly start putting her down for 2 naps and whatever else you can see she needs and it seems to me that once that starts working which I'm assuming it would bc it seems to me the baby is over tired, then you can have proof to show the parents what is working.

I know this isn't necessarily working with the parents but when she's at daycare she's on your schedule (in my opinion) and maybe you could get her back on a routine that fits your needs. I hope that the parents would understand that the kids there have to be on your routine since that's how most providers do it to be able to work with a group of kids, kwim?
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LK5kids 06:41 PM 12-10-2012
ONLY ONE NAP???? Tell mom she HAS to have more sleep and will continue to melt down until she does. Also, why can't she roam the room? What do you have her do if she can't move around? My little ones can use both rooms freely except for the small area I have partitioned off for older kids who use playdoh, markers, paint, glue, etc.
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cheerfuldom 09:00 PM 12-10-2012
Originally Posted by Evansmom:
Just my 2cents but could you do what you need to do with the baby in terms of routine while she's with you and then let the parents follow along like they were before? Like possibly start putting her down for 2 naps and whatever else you can see she needs and it seems to me that once that starts working which I'm assuming it would bc it seems to me the baby is over tired, then you can have proof to show the parents what is working.

I know this isn't necessarily working with the parents but when she's at daycare she's on your schedule (in my opinion) and maybe you could get her back on a routine that fits your needs. I hope that the parents would understand that the kids there have to be on your routine since that's how most providers do it to be able to work with a group of kids, kwim?
i agree with you and this is what i am trying to do but we are at week 3 now back at daycare full time with no progress. i do the same routine with this girl every day but am thinking that perhaps what is going on at home is just too much for baby and i to overcome here at daycare. i am thinking that after another two weeks of consistency, i really will need to consider terming. this baby is so miserable.....there is only so much i can do. my question is actually, how long would you give this situation?
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cheerfuldom 09:03 PM 12-10-2012
Originally Posted by LK5kids:
ONLY ONE NAP???? Tell mom she HAS to have more sleep and will continue to melt down until she does. Also, why can't she roam the room? What do you have her do if she can't move around? My little ones can use both rooms freely except for the small area I have partitioned off for older kids who use playdoh, markers, paint, glue, etc.
i have a small group right now...two to four kids depending on the day, plus my four. we arent downstairs in my playroom the whole time. sometimes we are upstairs in the living space and all the other kids can handle that but her. even when we are downstairs, she is going for the trash can and that type of thing. its like she has a radar to only go for things that are completely not toys. i have taken care of many kids, i realize that everything is a toy to kids at that age but at a certain point, all the issues start to combine and be too exhausting to deal with. every time she is moved from something that is not appropriate, she FREAKS out and doing this over and over for hours is not fun, to say the least.
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LK5kids 05:50 AM 12-11-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
i have a small group right now...two to four kids depending on the day, plus my four. we arent downstairs in my playroom the whole time. sometimes we are upstairs in the living space and all the other kids can handle that but her. even when we are downstairs, she is going for the trash can and that type of thing. its like she has a radar to only go for things that are completely not toys. i have taken care of many kids, i realize that everything is a toy to kids at that age but at a certain point, all the issues start to combine and be too exhausting to deal with. every time she is moved from something that is not appropriate, she FREAKS out and doing this over and over for hours is not fun, to say the least.
I agree....some will go for things that are not toys. I also feel your pain as it certainly can be exhausting. For her to have such a complete turn around to the negative has to be something like sleep deprivation. Just think what you feel like when you're tired. Kids just can't handle it. Take care of yourself, as yes...this is a very stressful situation. I hope things improve
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Evansmom 08:25 AM 12-11-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
i agree with you and this is what i am trying to do but we are at week 3 now back at daycare full time with no progress. i do the same routine with this girl every day but am thinking that perhaps what is going on at home is just too much for baby and i to overcome here at daycare. i am thinking that after another two weeks of consistency, i really will need to consider terming. this baby is so miserable.....there is only so much i can do. my question is actually, how long would you give this situation?
Ahh, that's tough. If it were me I would give it 4 weeks max and if there isn't any change I would term. I have been in a similar situation where I tried very hard to get the baby on a schedule and then the parents undid everything at home. So frustrating.

Daycare needs to be a partnership between caregiver and parents. If they are not working with you and this is creating an environment that is difficult for you then the group suffers as well. The way I see it you would be considerate of the parents that do want to work with you by creating a healthy and peaceful environment for the group as a whole and that may mean terming this family.

I think you are doing the right things, hang in there!
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slpender 08:45 AM 12-11-2012
Originally Posted by Evansmom:
Just my 2cents but could you do what you need to do with the baby in terms of routine while she's with you and then let the parents follow along like they were before? Like possibly start putting her down for 2 naps and whatever else you can see she needs and it seems to me that once that starts working which I'm assuming it would bc it seems to me the baby is over tired, then you can have proof to show the parents what is working.

I know this isn't necessarily working with the parents but when she's at daycare she's on your schedule (in my opinion) and maybe you could get her back on a routine that fits your needs. I hope that the parents would understand that the kids there have to be on your routine since that's how most providers do it to be able to work with a group of kids, kwim?
I agree with this i would do what u need to do. At nine months I agree two naps are still need. Could you set up an area where she is free to roam while you are doing activites with the others. I would be firm at meal times if she doesn't eat she will at the next meal when she is hungry. I use to stress about the meals but that is one of the few things she can control when she is hungry she will eat.
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Heidi 08:56 AM 12-11-2012
I'd agree with the pp's who say, first of all, she needs 2 naps. SHe may not think so, but you know better.

I'd lay her down for an hour in the morning, right after breakfast (8:30 or 9 ish). Start some sort of mini-routine with her, like a sleepy song and saying night night to all her friends. Then, put her down.

She can sleep in there, she can play in there, she can scream. But, do not go back in until nap time is over. I'd say one hour. Then, have a wake-up routine. A silly "wake up" song. Use this each time HER nap time is over, as well as in the afternoon when everyone's nap time is over. No matter how much she's fussing, act like you are happy to see her and yay! now we can go play. IN the afternoon, it's however YOU say nap time is. Again, what she does in bed is her business. Kind of leading a horse to water, IMO.

I'm a big fan of extenal cues like the songs, or setting "alarms" on your cellphone that signal transitions (ex: the gummy bear song goes off on mine every day when it's breakfast). When my toddlers last year had trouble with napping, I sang the same inane "nighty nighty nighty night" song every day at lunch. My licenser laughed her head off one day when THEY started singing it at the lunch table.

In your playroom, I would completely baby proof. Trash can UP, pictures on walls UP, lego corner gated off, etc. The constant redirection has to be exhausting for both of you. She's only 9 months old, so she cannot remember very long what's "off limits". I really think it's possilbe to baby-proof for a 9 month old. A 20 month old is something entirely different.

Keep your whole routine for the next 2 weeks as absolutly consistent as possible. That means, where you are playing (downstairs, upstairs, and outside) and when you are there. She needs it to the same every day for a while so she gets it. It's just not a good time for being flexible. If you put her in the excersaucer when your upstairs, then that's where she goes EVERY time. You can acknowledge her feelings; "I know you don't like being in the excercauser, but you need to be safe when we are upstairs".
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wdmmom 09:06 AM 12-11-2012
One thing that has gotten me through more than you know...

WHAT MAY WORK AT HOME MAY NOT WORK FOR DAYCARE.

Give this baby a morning nap. Not only does she need it but you do too!! I don't transition kids out of morning naps til 18 months.

Do you think these solids are setting well with her and causing her tummy aches?
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SunshineMama 11:10 AM 12-11-2012
1. Give her 2 naps. One nap a day for a baby that age is nuts. Sleep begets sleep. Usually they nap 3.5 hours after they wake up... Try napping her at 10am for an hour and 2pm, for as long as she will sleep. It will take a few days or weeks even to get her back to a normal schedule.

2. Keep offering foods at the same time regularly, as well as bottles. try to make it fun or a game.

3. Consider putting her in a play yard with her own toys. She may fight it for a while, but if she can see you and the other kids, and is safe, then that may help her adjust.

4. At around 10 months, (at least for every baby and dck I have had at that age), they get separation anxiety and want to be held all the time. I know you have a newborn, so its not realistic that you can do that. I ended up terming both 10 month olds that I had for those reasons. They never adjusted and their needs were too great, and wasnt going to take away from my baby at the time to console them all day. I had to be honest with myself and acknowledge that it wasnt going to work.

Hopefully you can work everything out, but dont feel like a failure if you can't. Enjoy your sweet baby
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daycarediva 11:22 AM 12-11-2012
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I'd agree with the pp's who say, first of all, she needs 2 naps. SHe may not think so, but you know better.

I'd lay her down for an hour in the morning, right after breakfast (8:30 or 9 ish). Start some sort of mini-routine with her, like a sleepy song and saying night night to all her friends. Then, put her down.

She can sleep in there, she can play in there, she can scream. But, do not go back in until nap time is over. I'd say one hour. Then, have a wake-up routine. A silly "wake up" song. Use this each time HER nap time is over, as well as in the afternoon when everyone's nap time is over. No matter how much she's fussing, act like you are happy to see her and yay! now we can go play. IN the afternoon, it's however YOU say nap time is. Again, what she does in bed is her business. Kind of leading a horse to water, IMO.

I'm a big fan of extenal cues like the songs, or setting "alarms" on your cellphone that signal transitions (ex: the gummy bear song goes off on mine every day when it's breakfast). When my toddlers last year had trouble with napping, I sang the same inane "nighty nighty nighty night" song every day at lunch. My licenser laughed her head off one day when THEY started singing it at the lunch table.

In your playroom, I would completely baby proof. Trash can UP, pictures on walls UP, lego corner gated off, etc. The constant redirection has to be exhausting for both of you. She's only 9 months old, so she cannot remember very long what's "off limits". I really think it's possilbe to baby-proof for a 9 month old. A 20 month old is something entirely different.

Keep your whole routine for the next 2 weeks as absolutly consistent as possible. That means, where you are playing (downstairs, upstairs, and outside) and when you are there. She needs it to the same every day for a while so she gets it. It's just not a good time for being flexible. If you put her in the excersaucer when your upstairs, then that's where she goes EVERY time. You can acknowledge her feelings; "I know you don't like being in the excercauser, but you need to be safe when we are upstairs".
THIS! I feel awful for the baby (and you!) that is entirely too many transitions at once. I would definitely give it another 2 weeks, let Mom know that you are going to be getting dcg back on schedule and that you hope they are on board as well because you miss happy dcg and feel awful that she is such a grump all day.

It sounds as if she is running the show at home and honestly, it may not work at all to get her back on track at your house, but with a previously happy, well adjusted child, it's more likely.
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My3cents 12:23 PM 12-11-2012
Something else to think about is possible ear infections. That would make a baby cry all day- and teething. Some kids teeth horrible! Others breeze through like it is nothing.

Once had a baby that cried all the time, come to find out the baby needed tubes in the ears.

separation anxiety is big at this age too
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brookeroo 12:45 PM 12-11-2012
I don't really even consider what routine parents are doing at home. I've had mothers write out a schedule they follow. I've had them tell me during interviews how their children sleep. I don't even bother with it anymore. It just goes in with their contract but I don't really even read them or ask anymore because it's irrelevant.

At my house I use a routine that works for me. As far as I'm concerned they don't need to know what I'm doing unless they ask and they don't ask unless it's a problem at home. (I never get asked unless they are trying to time doctors appointments or pick ups).

I have had parents tell me their kids nap patterns and it almost never matches what they need here. I have parents that don't allow their children to nap at home and they will take two here. My naps for children under 2 are approximately 7:00am-9:00am and then 12:30p-3:00p. I almost always have to wake them up. The only problems I've run into are the part timers who's parents don't work every day and therefore they sleep ridiculous lengths of hours at home and have no desire to sleep here. Screws up my days and my break during the late nap time.

Any child that is that young needs to have two naps. Based on my experiences day to day, I don't think you necessarily need to follow what they are doing at home. If she's tired (which she should be if she's not getting the sleep she needs at home), she will sleep, routine or none. I'm willing to bet that if you start giving her that much things might get a little better. If she's over tired that in itself will cause a total crabby patty....a lot of times over tired kids fight their naps. I would just keep putting her down and letting her cry it out... same time every day and eventually she will give in and realize screaming and crying isn't going to change anything.

I agree with the teething or infections/illness thing. Usually every time there is a major change in a child like you are seeing this is the reason why. Keep an eye on that. Especially if it's not typical behavior for them. Children do go through phases. Often they are short lived. They can take weeks and sometimes months but usually they grow out of them sooner than later. It just seems like forever when you are dealing with it.

I'm sure you are worn out with a newborn and your patience could be thin as well. I honestly don't know how you do it. I would never be able to work that soon after having a baby. In fact my son still went to daycare many days after I had my daughter while I was still working. When it comes to babies that young I would give it at least two months from me attempting to correct the problem in my own ways. I just like to give it enough time to work itself out and see if there is anything I can change or do differently even if the parent isn't willing to.

It doesn't really matter what the parent wants in this because you are probably spending more time each week with their child awake than they are. You have to do what is best for your mental health and quality of care you can provide all of the kids ...including but not limited to that child as well.

For you it may be harder because you have a newborn. I couldn't tell you what your threshold is or should be in your case. I just know how much I would give and what I would do.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 01:01 PM 12-11-2012
9 months old and weaning off breastmilk??????? MAYBE baby is hungry! They need the fat and nutrients from formula or BM until they are 1!
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brookeroo 01:24 PM 12-11-2012
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
9 months old and weaning off breastmilk??????? MAYBE baby is hungry! They need the fat and nutrients from formula or BM until they are 1!
I would seriously hope they at least switched to formula.
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cheerfuldom 02:26 PM 12-11-2012
They weaned onto formula not regular milk!

AND i dont feel that my newborn is a factor in this. he is already sleeping from 11 to 7, nurses while we co sleep and goes right back to bed. I have heard him cry maaaaybe a dozen times since he was born almost a month ago....yes, he is the easier baby ever LOL I say this to point out that yes this daycare girl is exhausting but she is exhausting on her own, it has nothing to do with my current personal workload even though I have four kids of my own. i dont think she is crying to be held because even when mom or i hold her, she does not stop crying.

yesterday she had one long nap and then went home and slept thru the night. i used this to point out to mom that a good nap HELPS her daughter sleep thru the night. we shouldnt be cutting out daytime sleep in order for her to sleep more at night....thats not how babies work.
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LK5kids 12:28 PM 12-12-2012
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I'd agree with the pp's who say, first of all, she needs 2 naps. SHe may not think so, but you know better.

I'd lay her down for an hour in the morning, right after breakfast (8:30 or 9 ish). Start some sort of mini-routine with her, like a sleepy song and saying night night to all her friends. Then, put her down.

She can sleep in there, she can play in there, she can scream. But, do not go back in until nap time is over. I'd say one hour. Then, have a wake-up routine. A silly "wake up" song. Use this each time HER nap time is over, as well as in the afternoon when everyone's nap time is over. No matter how much she's fussing, act like you are happy to see her and yay! now we can go play. IN the afternoon, it's however YOU say nap time is. Again, what she does in bed is her business. Kind of leading a horse to water, IMO.

I'm a big fan of extenal cues like the songs, or setting "alarms" on your cellphone that signal transitions (ex: the gummy bear song goes off on mine every day when it's breakfast). When my toddlers last year had trouble with napping, I sang the same inane "nighty nighty nighty night" song every day at lunch. My licenser laughed her head off one day when THEY started singing it at the lunch table.

In your playroom, I would completely baby proof. Trash can UP, pictures on walls UP, lego corner gated off, etc. The constant redirection has to be exhausting for both of you. She's only 9 months old, so she cannot remember very long what's "off limits". I really think it's possilbe to baby-proof for a 9 month old. A 20 month old is something entirely different.

Keep your whole routine for the next 2 weeks as absolutly consistent as possible. That means, where you are playing (downstairs, upstairs, and outside) and when you are there. She needs it to the same every day for a while so she gets it. It's just not a good time for being flexible. If you put her in the excersaucer when your upstairs, then that's where she goes EVERY time. You can acknowledge her feelings; "I know you don't like being in the excercauser, but you need to be safe when we are upstairs".
I LOVE this.....wonderful advice.
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Tags:behavior issues, change in behavior, unruly child
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