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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Missouri Bills Referring To Deadly Daycares In The Media
cathywagner345 06:44 AM 02-11-2012
I am a provider in Missouri and in the House and Senate they are proposing 4 bills known as the Sam Pratt Law and Nathans Law. They are incidents that happened in unlicensed over the limit daycares and they want restrictions. They have added to the wording on several of the bills to restrict the relatives of licensed providers due to the "death rates" The statics are 54 deaths mostly SIDS and only 8 were in licensed facitilites. While these deaths are tragic and we are sympathetic the media has been putting it our that these bills stop deadly daycares. We local providers are offended. Now our advocate CHILDCARE AWARE has set up a rally called "Protect our babies- the beginning of ending deadly childcare." How can we get this type of hype stopped. We have 167.412 slots for child care in Missouri so if you have 8 deaths I would hardly call that deadly child care. Anyone with suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Cathy
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Heidi 08:20 AM 02-11-2012
I don't know what to tell you, but I can tell you it's the same here.

There are regs added constantly based on what's happened at unlicensed daycares, and the licensed providers are the only one that have to deal with it. Very little effort is made to shut down illegal providers.

When a tradgedy occurs in a childcare, the paper does not even mention if it was an illegal facility! It would be so nice (not nice, bad word choice, but right), if they would add the line "So and so was operating outside of state regulations. In WI, and provider caring for more than 3 children must be licensed". Or something like that....
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Crystal 06:16 PM 02-11-2012
Even ONE death in child care is to many.....licensed or not.

I think, if there is to be any outrage, it is that the information being provided is minimal and does not shout out that the majority of these incidents occur in unlicensed facilities....although I have heard of many occurring in licensed facilities as well.

I suggest, if you want to really get the word out about the realities of this, that you call the local newspaper or stations and ask to be interviewed.

Also, when you see a story and it does not indicate licensed or unlicensed, call the paper/news station and ask for clarification, for everyone. Point out that they are damaging reputations by not telling the WHOLE story and demand that they be more thorough in the journalism.
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itlw8 07:58 PM 02-11-2012
I can see both sides of the issue/ Most states have to count relatives and even their own children in their ratio. And most states are licensed for less children than we are.
The change will happen it just is when... They tried 10 years ago to take the relative exclusion out but that rewrite of the regulations failed.

I would hate to have to count my own children and If my grand kids come to visit I should not have to count them BUT In theory I could have 50 1st degree relatives ( or more ) in my care AND 10 other children

I bet in the next rules they will limit how many relative can be in care ANd it will soon be every child counts in the ratio.. and I bet the total will be decreased from 10 to 6 like other states. AND it will mean childcare rates will go up. They will have to go up to make a living.

Missouri ranks like 48th in regulations. they were not happy about that.
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cheerfuldom 08:02 PM 02-11-2012
It is my understanding that Missouri law has some of the most lax regulations. I have no problem with regulations tightening if there is adequate proof that the loose regulations are adding to the problem. It is a shame though that unlicensed daycares that run way outside the ratios, etc. put all home daycares in a bad light.
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cheerfuldom 08:26 PM 02-11-2012
here are some links to the bills

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/m...3127a2459.html

http://www.mdn.org/2012/STORIES/KIDCARE.HTM
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nannyde 03:50 PM 02-12-2012
My state counts relatives before they start kindergarten. I can't support any ratio numbers that don't include birth to five relatives. If anything... relatives are more difficult for the caretaker so they should count more.

Children are safer in child care than they are with their parents but parents don't have the responsibility for their children that we have. It's comparing apples to orangatutans. Relative children SHOULD be counted because their presence affects the non relative day care children's safety. The non relative day care children's safety is where the regulations need to based upon.

Missouri has rediculous regulations. They need to change them now.
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cheerfuldom 06:22 PM 02-12-2012
I was confused about whether the relatives is referring to paid daycare children that are also relatives or just any relatives whether paid or unpaid.
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nannyde 06:47 PM 02-12-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I was confused about whether the relatives is referring to paid daycare children that are also relatives or just any relatives whether paid or unpaid.
I don't think it matters if the are paid or not. They are considered relatives if they are within three degrees of consanguinity iirc
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itlw8 08:18 PM 02-12-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I don't think it matters if the are paid or not. They are considered relatives if they are within three degrees of consanguinity iirc
not sure what that means.... but a relative in Mo is a child, step child, brother or sister, grand child or niece or nephew. They are called 1st degree relatives by law.

As far as I can see this has nothing to do with licensed providers. just unlicensed
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cheerfuldom 09:13 PM 02-12-2012
I think the one referring to relatives will affect both because the ratio of unlicensed daycares is 4 children to 1 adult and that does not include relatives. even in a licensed daycare in Missouri, relatives do not count towards your ratio numbers. If a law changes the definition of relatives or the number of relatives allowed, that will affect both licensed and unlicensed. This is my understanding of the issue.

I agree that paid or unpaid does affect the amount of work by the provider but my question about paid or unpaid was mostly for moms that might have a situation where they have several young children of their own with them all day plus daycare kids. For instance, if you have 2 biological children, in Missouri you can take four more kids without being licensed. If they change the relatives rules, would this same provider then only be able to take two children now? Does this make sense?
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nannyde 05:55 AM 02-13-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
not sure what that means.... but a relative in Mo is a child, step child, brother or sister, grand child or niece or nephew. They are called 1st degree relatives by law.

As far as I can see this has nothing to do with licensed providers. just unlicensed
http://www.geneticseducation.nhs.uk/...-relative.aspx

The "degree of relationship" describes the proportion of genes shared by two blood relatives. A person's first degree relative is a parent, sibling, or child. A first degree relative shares about half of their genes with the person.

A second degree relative of a person is an uncle, aunt, nephew, niece, grandparent, grandchild or half- sibling. A second degree relative shares about one quarter of their genes with the person.

A third degree relative of a person is a first cousin, great-grandparent or great-grandchild. A third degree relative shares about one eighth of their genes with the person.

http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/cu...r/19c30-61.pdf


(18) Related is any of the following relationships
by marriage, blood or adoption between
the provider and the children in care: parent,
grandparent, great-grandparent, brother, sister,
stepparent, stepbrother, stepsister, uncle,
aunt, niece, nephew or first cousin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consanguinity

Consanguinity ("blood relation", from the Latin consanguinitas) refers to the property of being from the same kinship as another person. In that respect, consanguinity is the quality of being descended from the same ancestor as another person. Consanguinity is an important legal concept in that the laws of many jurisdictions consider consanguinity as a factor in deciding whether two individuals may be married or whether a given person inherits property when a deceased person has not left a will.

So Missouri considers a relative to the third degree of consanguinity AND that includes what the individual would be blood wise by marriage.
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