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jessrlee 10:08 AM 02-15-2011
With the new crib regs will IA guidelines prohibit pnp's? I know I probably need to wait until June to find out but I wondered if you had heard anything. Our inspectors really don't like them, but can't cite us on it. I just want to be prepared to budget for 200$ a pop cribs.
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MARSTELAC 11:14 AM 02-16-2011
I am pretty sure we have to get the new cribs in MN. I am wondering about some I saw on Babies R Us website that are smaller than normal cribs and look like they fold up for storage? I will have to get in touch with licensing and see if I can use those since they were under 150.00.
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lil angels 11:18 AM 02-16-2011
what are you guys talking about? New cribs I am in MN and I have not heard anything about new crib guidelines.
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MARSTELAC 11:21 AM 02-16-2011
I'll find it for you and post a link in a bit...kids waking up :-( cannot put infants in pack n plays anymore supposedly and cannot used drop down sided cribs (like I have). :-( They are making it really tough for family daycare providers for sure.
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Little People 11:25 AM 02-16-2011
They pulled all cribs off the shelves with drop rails and now BOTH sides of all cribs will be stationary. That will be hard to get some heavy infants out of

I don't know anything about the PP rules, I have not heard anything.
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Missani 11:34 AM 02-16-2011
I was recently licensed in October (in MN) and my licensor told me that I could not use pnps for anyone under 12 months. She did not go into detail as to if it was current regulations or upcoming regulations because I use regular cribs anyway.

I think you can use the portable (small/fold up) cribs, but I'm not sure.

I bought my cribs from Ikea. They are very basic and weren't too expensive ($100-150 range I think.) They are the Sniglar model. The worst part was having to buy the mattresses since I am picky about what I will let an infant sleep on.
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nannyde 11:34 AM 02-16-2011
Originally Posted by jessrlee:
With the new crib regs will IA guidelines prohibit pnp's? I know I probably need to wait until June to find out but I wondered if you had heard anything. Our inspectors really don't like them, but can't cite us on it. I just want to be prepared to budget for 200$ a pop cribs.
Not that I know of. I have never used cribs so I don't know.

What's happening in June?
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Crystal 11:46 AM 02-16-2011
This seems to be happening nationwide. I believe there has been a recall on ALL drop side cribs and collapsible sided PNP's.
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nannyde 11:50 AM 02-16-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
This seems to be happening nationwide. I believe there has been a recall on ALL drop side cribs and collapsible sided PNP's.
I don't have either so hopefully I'm not affected. When I have to give up the JMason's I will close my doors.
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KEG123 11:51 AM 02-16-2011
I never read it was an actual recall. Just a...hmm...whats the word... basically they're pulling them off the market due to the drop sides, but since pnp's don't have drop sides....
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Lilbutterflie 11:56 AM 02-16-2011
I heard about the drop side cribs; they are not allowed to be bought or sold I think. But as for PNP's that collapse (I thought all of them did)... as far as I know all of them are made so that they don't collapse unless the mattress is out and you pull the cord at the bottom. What's the danger in that?
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Symphony 12:13 PM 02-16-2011
Can you link where you've seen anything about pnp's? As of right now, that is what is recommended in my state, I own 6 pnps and 0 cribs. I couldn't afford to replace them.

I've been googling, but I don't see anything that mentions pnps.
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Blackcat31 12:24 PM 02-16-2011
Ok, I am in MN too and I just called my licensor and she said she has heard nothing about any new regs in regards to PNP's or cribs. She said it is a given that no one should use any product that has been recalled and PNP's are okay but NOT for infants (under 12 months) if the PNP has mesh siding which most do. So infants cannot and have not been allowed to sleep mesh sided PNP's

Subp. 9.Infant and newborn sleeping space.There must be a safe, comfortable sleeping space for each infant and newborn. A crib, portable crib, or playpen with waterproof mattress or pad must be provided for each infant or newborn in care. The equipment must be of safe and sturdy construction that conforms to volume 16, parts 1508 to 1508.7 and parts 1509 to 1509.9 of the Code of Federal Regulations, its successor, or have a bar or rail pattern such that a 2-3/8 inch diameter sphere cannot pass through. Playpens with mesh sidings must not be used for the care or sleeping of infants or newborns.
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KEG123 12:36 PM 02-16-2011
I've never heard of an infant not being able to sleep in a PNP?
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melskids 12:44 PM 02-16-2011
here in NY (i have heard, but not sure if its true) that it is illegal to sell, buy, or trade cribs w/ drop sides, for ALL people, not just providers.

i haven't heard anyhting about pnp's yet.

walmart has small portable cribs for $99. at least, last time i looked on their website they did.
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DCMomOf3 12:53 PM 02-16-2011
here are the regs for cribs/pnp for Wisconsin. It looks like 'safe' pnps are allowed but there are no indicators of 'safe' for pnps, just cribs... for now.

(e) Infants shall sleep alone in cribs or playpens. Two related children may share a double bed.
No more than one child may occupy a single size bed, cot, mat or sleeping bag.
Note: See also s. DCF 250.06(8)(b)3. and 4. which require that the cot, bed, mat, sleeping bag, crib or
playpen be safe and washable.



4. A safe, washable crib or playpen for each child under one year of age who naps or sleeps.
Note: See Appendix D for information related to safe cribs.

APPENDIX D
CONSUMER PRODUCTS SAFETY COMMISSION (www.cpsc.gov)
Your Used Crib Could Be DEADLY
CPSC Document # 5020
An unsafe used crib could be very dangerous for a baby. Each year, about 50 babies suffocate
or strangle when they become trapped between broken crib parts or in cribs with older, unsafe
designs.
A safe crib is the best place to put a baby to sleep. Look for a crib with a certification seal
showing that it meets national safety standards.
If a crib does not meet these guidelines, it may not be used by children enrolled in your child
care center. To protect all children, destroy it and replace it with a safe crib.
A safe crib has:
• No missing, loose, broken, or improperly-installed screws, brackets, or other hardware on the crib
or the mattress support.
• No more than 2 3/8 inches between crib slats so a baby’s body cannot fit through the slats.
• A firm, snug-fitting mattress so a baby cannot get trapped between the mattress and the side of
the crib.
• No corner posts over 1/16 of an inch above the end panels (unless they are over 16 inches high
for a canopy) so a baby cannot catch clothing and strangle.
• No cutout areas on the headboard or foot board so a baby’s head cannot get trapped.
• A mattress support that does not easily pull apart from the corner posts so a baby cannot get
trapped between mattress and crib.
• No cracked or peeling paint to prevent lead poisoning.
• No splinters or rough edges.
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DCMom 12:57 PM 02-16-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Ok, I am in MN too and I just called my licensor and she said she has heard nothing about any new regs in regards to PNP's or cribs. She said it is a given that no one should use any product that has been recalled and PNP's are okay but NOT for infants (under 12 months) if the PNP has mesh siding which most do. So infants cannot and have not been allowed to sleep mesh sided PNP's

Subp. 9.Infant and newborn sleeping space.There must be a safe, comfortable sleeping space for each infant and newborn. A crib, portable crib, or playpen with waterproof mattress or pad must be provided for each infant or newborn in care. The equipment must be of safe and sturdy construction that conforms to volume 16, parts 1508 to 1508.7 and parts 1509 to 1509.9 of the Code of Federal Regulations, its successor, or have a bar or rail pattern such that a 2-3/8 inch diameter sphere cannot pass through. Playpens with mesh sidings must not be used for the care or sleeping of infants or newborns.
These are the kind of variations/interpretation differences between the counties that drive me crazy!

I am also in Minnesota and I have always used pack-n-plays for my under 2's to sleep in. I use the bassinet inserts until they are old enough to sit up. I just got re-licensed in October; my licensing worker physically inspected all of my pnp's and gave me the same variance she always gives me to use the 'approved rigid mesh-sided portacribs'. I do the same monthly checks with CPSC and Graco (all four of my pnp's are Graco) to make sure there are no recalls.

I have never been told that I cannot use pnp's. I wish everyone would get on the same page
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Blackcat31 01:16 PM 02-16-2011
Originally Posted by DCMom:
These are the kind of variations/interpretation differences between the counties that drive me crazy!

I am also in Minnesota and I have always used pack-n-plays for my under 2's to sleep in. I use the bassinet inserts until they are old enough to sit up. I just got re-licensed in October; my licensing worker physically inspected all of my pnp's and gave me the same variance she always gives me to use the 'approved rigid mesh-sided portacribs'. I do the same monthly checks with CPSC and Graco (all four of my pnp's are Graco) to make sure there are no recalls.

I have never been told that I cannot use pnp's. I wish everyone would get on the same page
I feel for you...we had that problem with food coordinators..always telling each provider different versions of the rules. The info I posted though about the PNP's for infant sleeping came right off the MN licensing rule website so I would think it is the correct version. My licensor said each county can have special add-on requirments but NO county can over-ride the state's law.

My guess is, maybe your licensor isn't intrepreting it correctly. (?) (mine told a parent the other day that I am legally required to give parents end of the year statements by Jan 31.?!?) I told her it was not true and what Tom Copeland said and even sent her the link. She was surprised that she was so mis-informed. I am listening to Tom on that one.

As far as the PNP sleep rules, I am going to call the MN dept of Human Services licensing department and see what they say. iw ill keep you posted on what I find out. (can you tell I went to school for 2 years to be a para-legal??! Research is my fav! LOL!! )
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MommyMuffin 01:45 PM 02-16-2011
what is JMason's?
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daycare 01:46 PM 02-16-2011
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
what is JMason's?
lol i tired to google it cuz I dont know that those are either....lol
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nannyde 03:35 PM 02-16-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
lol i tired to google it cuz I dont know that those are either....lol
http://www.babyminestore.com/feat_playyard.html
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jessrlee 04:19 PM 02-16-2011
Sorry I just saw the replies!

1. The CPSC released new guidelines on cribs. Manufacturers must meet the guidelines by 6/28/11. Daycare providers must have compliant cribs by 12/28/12. Including in-home providers.

2. June seems to be when I get new reg change notices. I assumed that they voted in new regs in June.
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jessrlee 04:29 PM 02-16-2011
Where I fist heard of it:

http://www.discountschoolsupply.com/...ampaignid=7005

Verified:

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml11/11074.html

the only variance is DSS says 12-28-12 and CPSC says 24mos AFTER 6-2011 cribs must be compliant.
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nannyde 05:42 PM 02-16-2011
Originally Posted by jessrlee:
Sorry I just saw the replies!

1. The CPSC released new guidelines on cribs. Manufacturers must meet the guidelines by 6/28/11. Daycare providers must have compliant cribs by 12/28/12. Including in-home providers.

2. June seems to be when I get new reg change notices. I assumed that they voted in new regs in June.
Hmmmmm I haven't seen June be a month of changes. It's usually YEARS in between reg changes. The last reg change came in October of 2009 IIRC.

I don't have any cribs so I hope it doesn't affect me. I don't know if they will ban all pack n plays or not. I haven't heard that.

The pack n play I use now is the safest piece of equipment I have ever purchased in my career. They are an AMAZING design. They are about a half inch to an inch off of the floor at the bottom. Full horizontal bars for the top railing. 26 inches deep, 40 inches long, with excellent materials for the mesh and vinyl. They have a THICK base that is like a cot bottom so there is no need for a mattress pad.

I wish they were still being made. They are an excellent option for older babies, toddlers, and preschoolers who do well with confined sleeping. I haven't ever had a kid be able to get out of them.

Like every piece of kid equipment they have to be maintained. It's important to visually check the seams and mesh regularly to catch any wear and repair. I am vigilant about checking them weekly.
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MARSTELAC 03:59 AM 02-17-2011
Here's a link for the MN info http://www.mnchildcare.org/reqlic/cribregs.php

Sorry I didn't get to it yesterday, I ended up with a bunch of sick kiddos. I will try to get more info my county and post here.
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nannyde 04:21 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by MARSTELAC:
Here's a link for the MN info http://www.mnchildcare.org/reqlic/cribregs.php

Sorry I didn't get to it yesterday, I ended up with a bunch of sick kiddos. I will try to get more info my county and post here.
• No heights of the rail and end panel are less than 26 inches when measured from the top of the rail or panel in the highest position to the top of the mattress support in its lowest position (#5 on checklist)

Does this suggest the cribs need to be 26 inches deep on the inside from the mattress to the crib rail? Wow.... I didn't think they were MAKING cribs that deep.

For those of you that HAVE cribs what is the inside depth measurement from the top of the mattress in it's lowest position to the lowest point on the top rail? How deep is your crib?
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DCMomOf3 05:21 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:

Originally Posted by :
Originally Posted by MARSTELAC
Here's a link for the MN info http://www.mnchildcare.org/reqlic/cribregs.php

Sorry I didn't get to it yesterday, I ended up with a bunch of sick kiddos. I will try to get more info my county and post here.
• No heights of the rail and end panel are less than 26 inches when measured from the top of the rail or panel in the highest position to the top of the mattress support in its lowest position (#5 on checklist)

Does this suggest the cribs need to be 26 inches deep on the inside from the mattress to the crib rail? Wow.... I didn't think they were MAKING cribs that deep.

For those of you that HAVE cribs what is the inside depth measurement from the top of the mattress in it's lowest position to the lowest point on the top rail? How deep is your crib?
I have one crib and it's 22 inches at the lowest point.
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Unregistered 05:27 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by MARSTELAC:
Here's a link for the MN info http://www.mnchildcare.org/reqlic/cribregs.php

Sorry I didn't get to it yesterday, I ended up with a bunch of sick kiddos. I will try to get more info my county and post here.
Looks like Minnesota can still us PNP's....
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Blackcat31 07:33 AM 02-17-2011
Yes, MN can still use PNP's but I did get a hold of someone in licensing department from the State and the woman said infants (under 12 months) may NOT sleep in mesh sided PNP's. They must be in a basinet/crib/cradle. I asked about the inserts for PNP's that are for infants and she said it hasn't been addressed yet so she says there is no rule saying no to that and no rule saying yes either. But she was very clear about the fact that they cannot sleep in a mesh sided PNP (without that infant insert thing.) Do they even make PNP's with out mesh on atleast two sides?
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nannyde 07:46 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by DCMomOf3:
I have one crib and it's 22 inches at the lowest point.
Four inches is the difference of a year plus in an average child's height ... meaning it could be used for an older baby if it were deeper.
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nannyde 07:53 AM 02-17-2011
Here's Iowa's center one:



http://www.dhs.state.ia.us/policyana...er/comm204.pdf

Mattresses should fit snugly in the crib and allow for no more than two fingers to fit between the mattress and the crib side. The top of the mattress to the top of the crib rail should be at least 36 inches. Cribs should have no corner post that exceeds 1/16 of an inch, and the headboard should have no cutouts.

As if they ever made them that deep.
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Autismworld 08:13 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Here's Iowa's center one:



http://www.dhs.state.ia.us/policyana...er/comm204.pdf

Mattresses should fit snugly in the crib and allow for no more than two fingers to fit between the mattress and the crib side. The top of the mattress to the top of the crib rail should be at least 36 inches. Cribs should have no corner post that exceeds 1/16 of an inch, and the headboard should have no cutouts.

As if they ever made them that deep.
36 Inches Deep? Seriously how are you suppose to get an infant in and out safely with it being so deep??
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Childminder 08:17 AM 02-17-2011
Here in Mi we received notice that the drop sides are no longer being made and that we have till 12/2112 to go to stationary sides.
Originally Posted by :
The top of the mattress to the top of the crib rail should be at least 36 inches.

As if they ever made them that deep.
Ok, if I read all this right, no more drop sides and the sides need to be 36 inches deep. Some peoples arms aren't 36 inches long. Get a ladder and climb on in with a baby in your arms?! How you going to pick up the baby?

Originally Posted by :
Cribs should have no corner post that exceeds 1/16 of an inch, and the headboard should have no cutouts.
My cribs are the small wood ones but have spindles on all four sides. Does this mean they aren't to be used? Are they considered cutouts?
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SilverSabre25 08:19 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by Childminder:
Here in Mi we received notice that the drop sides are no longer being made and that we have till 12/2112 to go to stationary sides.
(bolding mine)

...assuming you typed that date right, you have NOTHING to worry about! Talk about planning ahead, huh?
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Autismworld 08:20 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yes, MN can still use PNP's but I did get a hold of someone in licensing department from the State and the woman said infants (under 12 months) may NOT sleep in mesh sided PNP's. They must be in a basinet/crib/cradle. I asked about the inserts for PNP's that are for infants and she said it hasn't been addressed yet so she says there is no rule saying no to that and no rule saying yes either. But she was very clear about the fact that they cannot sleep in a mesh sided PNP (without that infant insert thing.) Do they even make PNP's with out mesh on atleast two sides?
When did this change? My last home visit I had two infants and one toddler all sleeping in PNP's and I was told that I didn't need the variance anymore to use mesh sided.
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nannyde 08:24 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by Autismworld:
36 Inches Deep? Seriously how are you suppose to get an infant in and out safely with it being so deep??
I've never seen that in my 31 years. I don't think they have been made even with drop sides.
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DCMom 08:30 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yes, MN can still use PNP's but I did get a hold of someone in licensing department from the State and the woman said infants (under 12 months) may NOT sleep in mesh sided PNP's. They must be in a basinet/crib/cradle. I asked about the inserts for PNP's that are for infants and she said it hasn't been addressed yet so she says there is no rule saying no to that and no rule saying yes either. But she was very clear about the fact that they cannot sleep in a mesh sided PNP (without that infant insert thing.) Do they even make PNP's with out mesh on atleast two sides?
See?? I guess I will just continue to use my pnp's until they tell me I can't...
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Childminder 09:55 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by :
Here in Mi we received notice that the drop sides are no longer being made and that we have till 12/2112 to go to stationary sides.
Good thing I'm not being graded on this! 2012
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Blackcat31 09:59 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by Autismworld:
When did this change? My last home visit I had two infants and one toddler all sleeping in PNP's and I was told that I didn't need the variance anymore to use mesh sided.
I don't think it changed I think it is all in the individual interpretation by each county. I copied and pasted below the words from the MN state licensing rules. Also, toddlers (12 months and up) can sleep in mesh sided PNP's just not infants according to the regs.

Subp. 9 Infant and newborn sleeping space.There must be a safe, comfortable sleeping space for each infant and newborn. A crib, portable crib, or playpen with waterproof mattress or pad must be provided for each infant or newborn in care. The equipment must be of safe and sturdy construction that conforms to volume 16, parts 1508 to 1508.7 and parts 1509 to 1509.9 of the Code of Federal Regulations, its successor, or have a bar or rail pattern such that a 2-3/8 inch diameter sphere cannot pass through. Playpens with mesh sidings must not be used for the care or sleeping of infants or newborns.
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MommyMuffin 10:44 AM 02-17-2011
I talked to my licensor, I am in MN. Although the statute has not said they are banned yet, my licensor said that it is to come and they are telling everyone to get the drop side cribs replaced with standard ones.

Today I ordered a crib http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dream-On-M...resso/13278319
It is smaller than standard and folds up. It was $100 and will be here in 1 week.

I would rather be safe and prepared than hang on to a crib that could be dangerous.
I have lots of pnps but infants cannot go in them I am not sure what the rules are for those that only use pnps.

Plus the new crib is a tax write off!!
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Autismworld 10:56 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
I talked to my licensor, I am in MN. Although the statute has not said they are banned yet, my licensor said that it is to come and they are telling everyone to get the drop side cribs replaced with standard ones.

Today I ordered a crib http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dream-On-M...resso/13278319
It is smaller than standard and folds up. It was $100 and will be here in 1 week.

I would rather be safe and prepared than hang on to a crib that could be dangerous.
I have lots of pnps but infants cannot go in them I am not sure what the rules are for those that only use pnps.

Plus the new crib is a tax write off!!
Is this crib pad/mattress the same size as a PNP... meaning, will it use the same sized sheets??
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DCMomOf3 10:59 AM 02-17-2011
here is a link to Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as referenced in the MN code.
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MommyMuffin 11:12 AM 02-17-2011
Not sure about the size of the mattress, but I bought the mattress made for them for $25, because it only comes with a 1" matress and that is not enough according to regs.
I havent been open a year yet and wanted to purchase dc items anyways and this being small is really nice and if I have to buy special sheets I sure will beacuse I will use it for a long time.

When it comes next week I will let you know about the sheets.
I love buying DC items!!! yipee.
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Autismworld 11:24 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
Not sure about the size of the mattress, but I bought the mattress made for them for $25, because it only comes with a 1" matress and that is not enough according to regs.
I havent been open a year yet and wanted to purchase dc items anyways and this being small is really nice and if I have to buy special sheets I sure will beacuse I will use it for a long time.

When it comes next week I will let you know about the sheets.
I love buying DC items!!! yipee.
I'm not seeing anything in the regs that state that the mattress needs to be more than 1". I seen something that stated the mattress pad can be no more than 1" thick? Also seen measurement guidelines for measuring from top of mattress to top rails etc... but can't find where it says anything about the mattress being more than an inch thick... can you copy and paste or something for me??
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MommyMuffin 11:51 AM 02-17-2011
Originally Posted by Autismworld:
I'm not seeing anything in the regs that state that the mattress needs to be more than 1". I seen something that stated the mattress pad can be no more than 1" thick? Also seen measurement guidelines for measuring from top of mattress to top rails etc... but can't find where it says anything about the mattress being more than an inch thick... can you copy and paste or something for me??
You are right, I just checked and it is not a rule. I never actually looked it up until now, it is something I heard from another provider and just thought it was true. Thanks!
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