I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.

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ALL of the children i keep have naptime. ALL of them. Its in the contract and that is my "break" time(if you want to call it that). I too tell the parents that we have a 2 hour quiet time regardless of if your child sleeps or not. Period! Now if these parents were to take them to a larger center they would have to have quiet time also. I had a parent one time tell me that she doesn't use sippy cups at home (her kids were 1 and 4 at the time) and that the only time they are allowed to drink is when they are sitting at the table. I told her that they will be using sippy cups while at my house cause i don't want it on the carpet or furniture. Her rebuttlle......well if there sitting at the table they won't get it every where. Ok that just ticked me off........My response was i don't make the children sit at the table everytime they need a drink and that all the kids in my care WILL be using sippy cups including yours. That parent brings a regular cup every morning an that cup gets dumped out into a sippy cup! So i guess what my point is that if the child is sleeping at your house then let her sleep cause she is not getting the proper sleep at home. And i would just stand your ground on this. Just a word of advice.........Don't ever ever portray yourself as a push over cause they WILL push you over and over and over. Stand your ground, your house, your rules!!

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This is what makes in home daycares look bad. Parents are parents and their ideas should be used, at least within reason. People like you make it hard to trust! You just said you do whatever you think is best, no matter what the parents want. YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!!

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YES you are correct. So the parent needs to find a provider who provides the services to the "rules" they have for their childs care.

It's not a difficult concept. Find the place that does child care the way you want your child to be cared for. If the daycare doesn't offer a "no nap" service then you find one that does.

We AGREE with you. We just don't want to provide that service.

If you want your kid to have sushi then you don't take them to McDonalds. It aint personal.

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Nan. I did not see your post...I had not refreshed my page since I started eating my dinner....

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The whole idea that we force kids to nap....
that we shouldn't have a say about what services we offer....
that we are to just DO as we are told..

GETS OLD

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I will be a respectful as possible.

I believe you missed the part where the provider told the Mother that she would NOT be willing to compromise her policies.

At the point the Mother left her child in the care of the provider, AFTER she was informed, she AGREED to the terms of service.

It really is simple.

We are not being deceptive. Not every provider offers every service. If yours does not offer something you are looking for, find a provider who does.

Trust that she will not change her policies when she tells you, point blank, that she will not.

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haa!! You hit it perfect. It's not the child with the issue - it's the parents - as usual. Most 4 year olds still need to take a nap - especially if their parents are allowing them to stay up late....
Let the child sleep --- tell them the truth - "don't let her stay up all night - be the parent and put her to bed!!!!!!!!!"
Dont back down on what you believe - and put the responsibility BACK ON THE PARENTS!
I've been through is 100's of time too! But, I tell them like it is - you need to be the parent and put your child to bed (their bed) not the parents either!
And, I explain - if they can't control a 4 year old - then they might as well forget it when the child is about 15 years old!

(i'm originally from maryland too - live in PA now)

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First of all What are you supposed to do torture the child to stay awake?
Secondly if it is a required nap by the state then case closed, if it is your policy stand fast, don't give, Give a little here give a little there and pretty soon the inmates are running the asylum so to speak.

Third if the child falls asleep that fast at nap time they obviously need the rest, Kids don't sleep unless they need it!

Lastly the Parents need to be parent's as was said and set the times the child goes to bed. What are they feeding them pure sugar lol.

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At our centers we too have "quiet time". It is healthy for them to take a nap but some don't. I try to explain to the parents that it is part of regulations but it is also discipline in preparing for Kindergarten because they are required to follow instructions and be able to control talking when told too. Our policy is that they have to lay quietly on the cot for the first 30 minutes and after that they are allowed to get a book for on their cot. If they still don't fall asleep after another 30 minutes we give them papers to do quietly at the table. (coloring page, tracing name, counting) Mostly learning papers.

We had a parent that allowed the child to stay up as late as she wanted to. The child had a TV in her room. When she came in at 6 am she would sleep till snack time and then was the first to fall off to sleep at quiet time. We gradually started to wake her a bit earlier each time. A bit earlier than snack time, and then instead of 3 pm... we would wake her soon... and try to have her the last to lay down. Eventually she did start to fall off to sleep at home a bit earlier. But without cooperation from the parent at home it is going to be difficult.
To discuss it with the parent I just got into a general conversation and told her how tired the child always was and made it more a "POOR MOM" issue... they respond to giving them sympathy.. and said .. I am sure it must be hard to get her to sleep at night... I don't envy you with school coming... she will be hard to get up for you... what every we can do to help... and let her know that you are going to allow her to nap but attempt to shorten it more and more in hopes that she will fall off to sleep at home earlier for her so MOM GETS SOME DOWN TIME... got to make it sound as though you are working with her .... and you feel empathy for her working so hard and caring for kids... give her pats on the back while giving her sympahy. They eat it up.

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Thanks for all the comments. Just another bit of info here. She has been sleeping in her parents bed since birth and just about a month ago, they tried to get her in her own room. Needless to say, the child told me on Monday, that her mom just moved her bed into her parents room. I am just going to do as I always have and have her take a nap with the other kids. She very clearly runs her household, but I will not allow her to run my daycare. I do need that break every day, and actually look forward to catching up on the laundry and cleaning at nap time. It is the only way, I can get my own chores done.

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My daughter turned 4 in Oct. and she takes a nap almost everyday. After lunch she ususally says she's tired. sometimes she only naps for 30 mins and other times she's out for 2-3 hours and yes, she still goes to bed by 8:30.

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"She very clearly runs her household, but I will not allow her to run my daycare."???

I thought it was the parents to blame and not the child?
You Miss, are the very reason why I am a stay at home Mom. I can only imagine how you treat that little girl during the time in which she is at your house and Im sure if her parents knew that you were in need of some sort of assistance from a forum they most certainly wouldnt have their child in your care.

As for the others who run daycares out of their homes, I agree with the your house your rules policy.

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You are not getting paid to do your chores, your paid to watch the kids!
that means all of you know it all baby sitters, whom get paid 2 - 3hrs for watching kids sleep.
It's funny how its always the parents don't know anything. HUH

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I happened upon this site just looking for advice about the possibility of my 4 3/4 year old no longer needing a nap. She's having a hard time falling asleep at night.

Instead I found some really self-righteous providers who may want to re-evaluate their line of work. I thought I'd provide a few "indicators" so you know who you are:

1. If you are quick to say "ALL THE OTHER children do this" or "ALL MY EIGHT kids did it like this" - you are clueless about respecting the fact that each kid is different and has different needs. (i'm not advocating nap vs. no nap, break vs no break as I don't believe that that is the real issue with some of these posts).

2. The lady who said she "laid really still" and "pretended to be asleep" so she wouldn't "get in trouble at daycare" during the 2 hour nap period... am I the only person who found this disturbing? This sounds like the kind of "lessons" that come from being abused at home. Ijs...

3. If you are 100% confident that you KNOW FOR A FACT that little Suzie's God-awful parents let her stay up until 11:00 EVERY SINGLE NIGHT... seriously? now you're the omnicient, ever-present, santa claus provider? You are not at that child's house so you may think you know but have the humility to realize that you can't say for certain...

4. If you use phrases like "these parents will never get it" - you should definitely stick a fork in yourself. Once you start seeing this as "you against them" you're done.

5. Finally, if you are posting on this forum while the children in your care are napping.... well... I think you get my point.

It's okay to decide that a certain career is no longer bringing you joy. It doesn't mean you're a bad person or that you failed.

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Are you a provider or an angry parent? Just wondering- it doesn't sound like you are a provider, because you have no clue that you cannot accommodate 6 different children's individual schedules in group care. Some states mandate 2 hours of naptime/ quiet rest-time- we are not going to break the law because YOU want us to. Sorry.

I know that some of my daycare kids go to sleep at 10 or 11 pm because THE PARENTS TELL ME.

Some parents "NEVER GET IT" about a lot of things. It isn't you versus us, it's that we tell you things over and over and you don't listen or care. Don't bring your sick child to daycare. Pay on time. Pick up on time. Bring more food when your child is out. We usually don't fault the parents IF we have not talked to them first: the parents who dont get it are the ones whom we have to consistently tell THE SAME THINGS TO over and over. PS: A lot of my daycare kids call me ma-ma. I keep telling them my name over and over, but they prefer to call me ma-ma. I feel sad for their real mothers and am embarassed when they call me that in front of them, but the fact is that I spend more time with your child than you do.

Maybe it isn't so bad if your child stays up an hour later at night so you can give them some attention?

Uhhhh, and what about posting on this forum when the kids are napping? Should we post on it when they are outside or free play or somethng else? Maybe we should post on it while they are running with scissors... seriously? What we do during naptime isnt your business.

I am not a self-righteous provider. I love the kids. I love my families. We have open communication, and are all on the same page about a lot of things. I hate it when people post to this, and sorry, a lot of the time it is jaded parents, and criticize what we do. Most of us work at least 50 hours a week minumim- if 10 of those hours are mandated naptimes for your child- so be it.

Would you wake up your child from a nap on the weekends so they go to sleep earlier if you knew they had a big day and were exhausted and needed the sleep?

And for the person who posted about NannyDe- I am relatively new to this forum and I don't know you or NannyDe, but this is a daycare provider's forum, and she is a provider with a lot of good advice. You do not have to judge or like everything she does, but who the heck are you to criticize someone like that?

So sick of all of these jerks who are coming on this site lately.

Oh- I'm a registered user too

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Hi,
I am a provider. I get that problem ocassionally with a parent complaining that their child won't go to sleep. If you try doing a vigorous activity at 10:30 or 10:45 (outdoor play, a game), then a quiet activity at 11:00 (coloring, books, free play, childrens show) (so you can prepare lunch), have lunch at 11:30 and naptime at 12:00, it does make a difference in when the children fall asleep for the parents.


Games they love that tire them out, but are safe
Have them start at one end of a hall or room and you tell them to be something you name (dog, cat, snake, baby, tree, etc...). You or an older child show them how to be it. They go from start to finish and back to start for each one.


Dancing with big balloons - they bounce and stick, they love it and relay races

Have a great day

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I am a parent who is concerned with the amount of time that my is in napping at daycare. I picked her up early the other day, 4:00 p.m., and she had just awoke about 15 minutes before my arrival and they went down for nap at 12:30. I think that is excessive. I put her to bed by eight everday and she struggles to fall to sleep. Most times she tosses and turns in bed for two hours before she actually falls to sleep. What can I do to address this issue?

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I too have children that will sleep till 4. But they didn't fall asleep till 2:30 or so. So, my point is, maybe she didn't fall asleep till towards the end of nap time, and I WON"T wake a sleeping child unless it is getting close to pick up time. At age 4, taking a 2/3 hour nap is common at my house. These kids get up early in the morning and their days are very busy.

As far as your child not wanting to go to bed at night. It has nothing to do with the nap at childcare, I would say it has more to do with how it is simply done at home. Kids have a way to get what they want at home.

I too have went thru the "Please don't let them sleep for more than 1 hour" because they won't go to sleep at home. Hmm, take out the tv and dvd player from their bedroom. Put them to bed at a descent time, shut out the light, and discipline them when they disobey. This is what is frustrating, the provider gets the blame for a child not wanting to sleep, yet the parent lets the kid lay in bed and watch tv.....this was the situation with me.

I have a kindergartener in my care, goes in the morning, and he gets back at 12:30, eats, and takes a 1 1/2 to 2 hour nap everyday. His days are very busy. I also have a first grader in my care, no school days, she lays down also, her choice to look at books or do something queitly, and 99% of the time she rolls over and goes to sleep.

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I recently implemented mandatory nap/rest time (like 2-3 weeks ago) in my home daycare. The 4 year old in my care USED to lie down nicely, I would rub his back just like every one else's and he would fall asleep for usually about half an hour to an hour. On Wednesday he suddenly decided he's going to SCREAM and cry for Mommy at quiet time. I don't know where it came from. I've told him every day, you don't have to sleep, you just have to lie down quietly and until Wednesday, it's been no problem, he's been good. I don't know what the change was - other than on Wednesday when his mom picked him up she told me she'd prefer him not to nap because apparently he had a really hard time going to bed - and I noticed too that all of a sudden when he was napping the next day he'd start talking about nightmares he'd been having. Weird, right? He screamed again at naptime yesterday. I was advised by a friend of mine who's worked in centres for over 6 years to try telling him if he needs to cry, to cry into a pillow (because he's clearly doing it just to be disruptive), and he would put his chin on the pillow and scream out of it even louder. I don't know where this came from! But yesterday after he screamed for 10 minutes and woke everyone up, I finally said "If you lie quietly until (the other child) goes to sleep, we can do a craft after" and instantly he smiled and shut up. It's strange - this kid is usually VERY agreeable. He usually cries when Mom first drops him off (actually that's even been minimal the last couple weeks) and he can clearly see from other kids that I'm not one to cater to whining and things like that - I had a 3 year old who was VERY "strong willed" about potty training, meal times, shoes, etc. and I would actually sit there with him for 45 minutes until he'd use his words to say "I'm finished eating" or put his shoes on or whatever, when I had someone else here to take the other kids out to play or whatever. I don't give into ploys for attention.

Sorry to put this in your thread - I don't have any advice, just needed to share this bizarre behaviour...

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have you just simply told him, when you yell at nap you will get no craft time. Period. Hes 4, not a baby. He seems smart. Be straight with him. when he arrives say Little Billy, if you scream at my home you will have to lose an activity. If your quiet, you get the activity.

Make it story time or playdough time or whatever,... something that happens BEFORE nap remind him the first day during the activity that if he screams he will not do the activity the next day. If he does scream,.... the next day say,.. Billy, you dont get to play (the activity) today because of your behavior yesterday. Im sorry but you chose to throw a fit, you need to go sit while we do the activity. Then when you lay them down say ,.. Billy,.. if you scream today you will not do the activity tomorrow. It will be fresh in his mind that he missed out because of his behavior. I bet it will take one day,.. possibly two to fix this issue. If it doesnt work the first day pick something really fun to exclude him from. And if anyone wants to flame me go ahead. Thats how it works here,.. You behave and get fun things,.. You misbehave and you dont. Amazingly,.. the kids behave,.. listen and after a time or two missing a fun thing,.. they magically "get it". My opinion,.. you dont give a tantrum a reward. and any attention is attention even if its to say,.. hush, be quiet,.. stop yelling,.. Bad behavior is ignored,..Ignored behavior is not being re-enforced. the bad behavior that gets no attention is no longer getting them attention so its not worth the effort. They see that good behavior is rewarded with fun things,... the world keeps spinning and everyone is friends.

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I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?

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I'm pretty sure every parent I've ever provided childcare for has provided me with some version of this story when their kids start the "bedtime games" stage. I wake my DCK's up if they are still sleeping at the end of naptime but I'm a firm believer that MOST children do not get enough sleep on a daily basis so I will NEVER give up afternoon naps here for children under 5. In fact my own 7 year old and my 5 year old niece regularly lay down for quiet time and fall asleep on days off school and still go to bed. It's not the nap...its the routine and consistency at bedtime at home in 99% of cases.

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For "me".. I know I can't work twelve hours straight and I can't keep a business running year after year... decade after decade if I limit my hours to an eight hour day where I could work straight. I also can't find clients who can afford the extra fee for supervision when kids are up and playing during nap so I can have the eleven/twelve hour day. My fee structure IS based on an afternoon break period. If I give that up then I HAVE to charge a lot more money.

I completely understand that there are many children from newborn on who don't need naps and have parents who don't want them to nap. There's no age group where the requests for no nap reside. I've had EVERY age group from six months up to five.

I became clear in that I won't argue or comprimise whether a kid needs a nap or not. If they don't need one they can't be HERE during nap. Nap is for ME. I need a break every day... a long quiet break every day. Minus illness or adjustments of newborns into care... I get it EVERY day.

That's what "I" need. It's not about the kid or about his parents. It's about ME and what "I" need to continue to offer this service year after year. It's about what it takes to keep ME healthy. I haven't missed a single day of work in 17 years... not one. Haven't called in once for being sick. I am happy in my job and I love love love my kidlets.

I KNOW what it takes to keep ME happy so I choose to only work with families who have children that need a FULL afteroon nap.

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Find a provider who offers those services. Really.

I don't ever get it when parent's post this kind of thing. It isn't brain surgery...if your provider doesn't offer the services you require, find another one who does! It's really nothing to be angry or snippy about. It's like getting angry at your Dr.'s office because the don't offer botox...there is nothing wrong with you, nothing wrong with the doctor, you are just looking for services that your Dr. doesn't provide so you need to go see a different doctor.

You wouldn't decide that you wanted your child to learn Chinese and then insist that your daycare provider change her program to accommodate that, would you? So why in the world should she change her program to suit your non-napping child?

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I am a mother of 3 children ages 15, 5 and 4. I also ran a day care in my home for a while. I believe it is a joint effort by the parents and the providors to do what is best for the children. I see providors on this thread blasting parents. Maybe these are issues that should be talked about among the parents and the providors. After all, isnt that why many people choose a home day care instead of a larger center. That being said....my 4 year old has always been a good sleeper and was always in bed by 8 pm. There is NO tv and NO video games in his room which he has shared since birth with his brother that is one year older. Lately he has been having trouble falling asleep, he is simply not tired enough and we ARE a highly active family. He does nap at daycare but on weekends he doesnt. He naps at daycare because it is a routine he is used to. I feel he is ready to either stop napping or have shorter naps now. Due to him not being able to fall asleep until later, we have trouble getting him up in the morning. We are a dual career family and have to be up and out early in the morning. I know there is no definitive answer to this issue but I think it is a case by case basis. I was actually uncomfortable after reading some of these responses with the tone in what some providors are saying. I believe as a providor you have a responsiblity not to complain about the people who pay you to take care of their children in a public forum, bring those issues to the parent and you never know, it MAY just be a misunderstanding that can be cleared up really easily. Communication helps in so many ways.

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OMG. That is all I can say. I know that there has been tons of posts on nap problem issues so indstead of asking I thought I'd search...........and this is what I ended up reading untill 1 in the morning.

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I am a childcare provider and in my daycare i try to have quiet time from 12:30/1pm till 2:30/3pm. I do not let the children nap after 3pm simply because if the parents cant get them to sleep at home because i allowed them to sleep to late into the afternoon then guess who would have to deal with the child being cranky the next morning?
What does your provider have in her policy book about nap time? Does she state the hours? I would check that out first then simply let her know that although you understand the policy on the children having quiet time and have no issue with it you do have a problem with the amount of time she's sleeping and how long in the afternoon she's allowed to stay asleep, ask if the provider can make sure that she doesnt sleep past a certain time and explain to her that you do put your child to bed at a decent time (8pm) and the long late naps are making her bedtime difficult. Good Luck

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I too have a 4 year old who has a tv in his room, however, the timer goes off at 9 and he can not cut it back on. He sleeps 2 to 2 1/2 hours at the daycare and I KNOW this is why he will not go to bed at a decent hour at night! He is wired up usually when it is time to lay down, even after a calm relaxing bed time routine. The days that he does NOT sleep at the daycare, he sleeps at night, so I am a believer that it has a lot to do with it. I feel that at this age, the requirement for sleep is different and it affects the sleeping habit of my child. Bravo for the moms that can get their child to bed after sleeping long nap hours, but mine will not because those two hours that he is asleep puts him two hours later on his sleeping time at night!

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The never ending debate...

I haven't weighed in on this because I'm sure that what I do will be unpopular, but it works form me, my kids and my dcp's. I never have a parent ask for no nap or a shorter nap time. I also get a break in the action everyday, except for when a new baby starts and even then it doesn't take long to get them on the schedule.

We don't have have afternoon 'naptime' beyond approximately 2 years old (give or take). After 2, you graduate from your pnp onto a nap mat in the main room and **poof** it's now 'Quiet Time'. From 1:00pm to 2:30pm you MUST be on your napmat, sleeping or not, I don't care. The only rule is stay quiet and on your nap mat. Books are allowed. This is the only time of the day the TV is on, with a movie of their choice (Rated 'G' and usually Disney/Pixar, of course!). I have 100's of kids DVD's.

I have 6 here now ~ ranging from 2.5 to almost 5 ~ 3 are watching the movie and 3 are sleeping. 3 I/T are in PNP's in the other room, also sleeping and it is blissfully quiet. The littles usually go down around 12:30 while the others are playing outside.

This is the method that I have used for 20+ years ~ the only problem the I had was years ago when a parent didn't want her child watching ANY type of TV. I respect that ~ but I also told her that this wasn't the daycare for her child.

I have a WII also and the 5 year old boys can kick my butt at SuperMario on rainy days

That's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

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What if the 4-year-old won't go to sleep until after 11:00, even if he's in bed by 8:30 - 9pm?

We start our bedtime routine between 8 and 8:30 so that bath, teeth, jammies, stories and all are complete and lights are out before 9:00. By 11:00 last night, he was in bed, but still wide awake. This is pretty much how it goes every day....until weekends when we tend to skip naptime. Then he's out by 9:30.

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I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.

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When my 3rd girl was 4, if she napped during the day she couldn't fall asleep at our normal 8-8:30p.m. bedtime...we have a routine every night and no TV in bedrooms.

I am a provider now and I understand the need for a break, but I wouldn't be rude to a 4 year old and make them do nothing for 2 hours if they were not tired. I don't have a 4 year old in care, but if I did and he/she was not tired, I would have them understand it's quiet time and do something quiet like look at books or play with playdough.

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Letting children have quiet time is cool, until the little angel decides quiet time is for the birds and hey, if their awake, everyone else needs to be awake also.

So what exactly should be done with the children who don't "need" naps, but insist their playmates don't need their naps either?

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Ah todays parents!!!

" If he/she naps to much, he/she will not sleep enough tonight"....so not true.

Actually there's some studies on this and they're conclusive: napping is very important for children and do not affect sleeping at night. What affects sleeping at night is more within the family's routine in the evening and weekends.

This is becoming more and more a problem for centers and family day cares.

At our center, we pretty strict with the 2h window and we mention it at registration.

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If I had a child like that I would explain to that child, "since you're growing up, you get to stay awake while the little kids take a nap. This is a privilege for you. I know you want to play with your friends, they are busy right now. If you're naughty and wake them up, you will have to lay down and take a nap."

I would also make sure I had plenty of quiet activities for them. Perhaps even once a week letting them play a computer game for 1/2 hour (with headphones on). I've got some great jump-start (educational) games for my own son. So maybe if (s)he's good all week, Friday is his/her special day?

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"Quite time" is needed for both provider and children being cared for however your child should also be rewarded for being quite during this time also. I agree making every child sleep is a power trip and only creates more exhaughtion for the child and provider. Not allowing other good and rewarded options is sad to see for children whom have outgrown a routine nap.

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I completely agree with you and am glad you posted. I've worked at day care centers for a few years now, with all ages. I don't understand why some teachers think the quiet time is suddenly their "break time." Four year old children (and younger) DO need rest, yes, but every child is different. To force a child to lay still for that long if they CLEARLY do not need rest is just ridiculous to me. There are plenty of quiet activities for children to do; read, color, even bring in a small game with headphones if they are that active. Believe me, I know that it's hard to have some kids trying to rest who REALLY, REALLY need sleep while Little Johnny is screaming his head off. But this mother is completely right. There are some children who are just simply non-nappers, active children, and the idea that they go home each day crying/without a sticker like their friends makes me so sad/angry for them. She is exactly right in saying that it creates a feeling of shame in them. They do not understand the adult reason for needing to have them all laying down. And this parent is correct in saying that long, excessive naps DO disrupt sleeping patterns at home. For one poster here who said that it's all a matter of the routine at home being "wrong," that's just insulting. You have no idea what the routine is of these parents who probably do have a good night time routine, lights off at a certain time no exceptions, and still struggle with their children not sleeping because of a long nap at school being forced. The government regulation is definitely being misused by some teachers and it's sad that parents have no say in their own children's daily routine.

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This is what I have to say about this. I don't disagree with you, however, there are also lots of children in this group setting that DO nap and need the full rest time. If your child's individual needs don't work at this center or in group child care, then find a place where their needs are being met. I expect the children who are getting stickers are getting them for laying quietly and respecting the other children's right to nap. Your child's needs don't come before the needs of the group. Not in group care, not in this setting. Sure, we want what's best for the kids, but if you're looking for individualized care you need to hire a nanny or babysitter that can provide the kind of one-on-one care you're looking for.

What about the parent that has a 4 year old and says, my child is only sleeping an hour because another child is allowed to be up and playing during rest. She's crabby and is not enjoying her evening soccer practice because she isn't resting long enough. The needs of the group will always win out in group child care. If the majority of the group needs to rest for 2.5 hours, then all the children will rest quietly for 2.5 hours.

If your child has outgrown nap time, then it is up to you to find care that suits her individual needs rather than criticize the care being provided to a group of children that seem to be well suited to this naptime rule.

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Explain to your child why those children are getting stickers. Bring this up to your daycare. They might not realize your child is feeling this way.

I don't feel you are creating shame- your teaching your child to be able to follow directions. You should thank your provider for this instead of looking at this as a negative.

If you feel your child should get a sticker too, your only setting your child up to needing something for everything she does. I feel reward systems are good in some ways but over used. Kids feel they should "get" something for everything they do. They are not learning self satisfaction. It's just a give me, give me more, more more.

It's ok for kids to learn NO and not run the adults. Having reasonable rules and boundaries is not a bad thing and is helping to set your child up early to being able to listen and follow directions and learn.

For those of you that are coming into the forum and bashing us providers.....take it up with your own providers. Work it out with them. Tell them your concerns and listen to what they have to say about the issue. We love and care for kids and have the best interest of the kids at large. This forum should be closed to parents and only for providers. A seperate forum should be opened for parents to ask providers questions. Parents come in here and don't realize we are venting to our co-workers a portion of our day. For me anyways, my positives out weigh the negatives but if I post one negative it sets me up to look like a horrible provider.

I hear you as a parent- and that is why I feel you should go to your provider and explain what you see going on with your child. Find a happy medium. No provider is ever going to be you. Hear me as a provider- almost all of us providers care for the best interest of our children. We spend long hours with them and love and care for them. When I ask your child to rest, its because I know your child needs it. I know the other kids need it. I am not trying to punish your child, its just our routine and one of the many things we do at care. Again, I hear you as a parent- your child does not need a sleep nap, but asking her to be quiet and read books, or quiet activity is no unreasonable. For me- I have the older kids try to rest for a while, if they can't I put on a quiet down time movie (Otis and Milo) is a favorite and they can opt to watch that, read, or quiet activity. Just having down time for the non nappers makes a difference in the rest of the day for them and for me.

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I agree that it's not right that they give all the kids stickers or awards after nap time and not giving her one for being quite but not sleeping. And maybe they should let her read a book or watch a movie in a seperate room, but thats not fair to say that Child Care workers aren't entitled to 1 break when working with 5+ children for up to 8+ hours! Many FCC/daycare's don't even use this time to just rest: sometimes this is the only meal/bathroom break they get between 6/7am-12/1 and they don't get regular manditory 15 minute breaks after every 2 hours of work like most jobs (at least according to CA break laws) while getting paid as little as 1.50 an hour per kid which is less than minimum wage. Some providers also use this time to have staff meetings, set up for afternoon activities, clean up, work on food program forms (which pays them to feed your child so that you don't have to pay more), paperwork/ record keeping/ taxes, work on curriculum, updating CC websites, returning missed calls, balancing checkbooks, preparing snacks, work on upcomming events/ parents notices, etc. Maybe you should volenteer at a daycare and see if you are willing to do all this for little pay and no breaks or benifits.

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I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.

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I am very surprised to hear daycare providers speak this way in a public forum.

I am the parent of a 3 1/2 yr old who does not need a nap. On weekends, she is quite happy and content, goes to bed at 8-8:30pm tops, getting up at the same time as we would on weekdays when we go to daycare, 7:30am ish.

Yet on weeknights, I cannot get her to sleep. This is not a question of discipline, as I have no issue on the weekends when she does not take a nap. The only difference is the daycare nap of approx 2 hours. She usually falls asleep around 10:30 - 11pm. Almost exactly 2 hours later...see the link!

I find your comments on parents to be generalizations that are not helpful to parents and children. Some children may need a nap while others do not...you shoudl be able to adapt your practices to these facts.

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I have a 4 year old in my care pt & also a 3 year old. The 4 year old naps 1.5-2 hrs a day & the 3 year old naps maybe 1-2 x a week. I don't force her to take a nap but parents encourage it. We just do quiet time for an hour. I think if the child doesn't need to nap that is fine but the provider does need at least a 30 min "break" to go to the bathroom & sit & eat. I don't see a problem with rest time per se or doing quiet activities so long as the child doesn't disrupt sleeping children. I literally do not sit down for more than 5 min when I have kids in my care so I truly need some quiet time.

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i agree as a parent and a care provider. when i was going to school, i worked at the "chain daycare" my kids attended. they had a naptime of 12:30 - 2:30, but in reality, they would have the kids lie down at 12 and if they weren't up by 2:30, they would let them keep sleeping. i told my son's teacher that she needed to wake him up if he wasn't up by 2:30. my kids already stay up until 10 at LEAST and letting him sleep 3-4 hours wasn't helping. my daughter who was 4 at the time got to where she no longer needed naps, along with a lot of the other 4 year olds. they would make them lie on the mats. they claim to give them books or "quiet activities" but really, they tried to make them sleep so they could break. they got downright mad and mean with the kids if they wouldn't sleep. i know. i worked there. i found it much easier for everyone to let those kids who didn't fall asleep after 30 mins come to a table with me to color or play with play dough - with the stipulation that if they got loud, they would have to lie back down. it was much easier doing that than it was trying for 2 hours to keep them quiet and still.

i'm not licensed as a daycare because i only keep 4 kids so i don't have to be. i did that on purpose because i have the freedom to let the kids sleep when they want or not make them if they don't want to. there are other advantages - like i don't have to take them outside if it's 33 degrees outside and they're all coughing. the parents love it because their kids can sleep when they want to instead of when my schedule says they have to. i don't have to stop serving breakfast at a certain time, etc. parents like that because if they're running late, their kids don't have to starve until snack time because the state says i have a cutoff time. i can basically operate like a "babysitter" but i don't charge like a babysitter. there's a difference though in being licensed and not being licensed.

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Would YOU work a 10.5 hour day with NO breaks? What if you could have a break, but your coworker threw a fit if you took one, because it was inconvenient to him? No, kids should not be forced to sleep, but a rest time. Yes.

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Thank you for this post. I too have a 4 year old at daycare. We too are having the same issues. I am appalled as well. It is hard enough leaving your children and now after reading all the comments of daycare providers it makes it even harder...thanks.

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I don't require the kids to sleep. But they all must lay down and rest. I close the blinds and put on a celine dion lullaby cd. I have kids from 11 months-5 yrs. My daughter being the oldest. She knows that after lunch everyone goes in the room to lay down. If she is still awake after I'm done eating, washing dishes and cleaning up, which can take from 30-45 mins than I let her get up and she usually does her leapster in the kitchen. The 4 yr old dcb normally naps as well. If he is still up when I'm done with my work, I let him get up and he colors or does a puzzle. BUT, by 3pm or so, he gets real nasty because then he is tired.

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If your child no longer needs a nap, pull them from the home daycare and wrestle it out with a center that is probably going to tell you your child needs to lay down for a certain amount of time.
Not every environment is right for every child. We do a ton of arts and crafts in my home. A couple of projects every day. It's what I do. I would not make and exception for a child that was into sports or basketball or soccer or whatever to go outside and play their choice of sports while the rest of us did the art activities. If that child or their parents were so opposed to doing what I had scheduled, and they knew that was the type of program I ran, then they need to find care elsewhere.
Nap time is a scheduled daily activity and it is usually written about in every home providers policy so the parents should know about it in advance. If they do not want their child participating in any of the scheduled daily activities then the child should not be in that program. The provider should not be and is not obligated to "make exceptions" for anyone.
Kid age out of programs all the time. To the woman who left and put her kid in a Montessori program - you probably did your provider a favor and saved her the time and energy of finding an excuse to terminate you. Home providers don't really have the luxury of worrying about the best interests of a particular child, it's the best interest of all of the children. If your kid is the square peg and going to screw up the nap routine of all of the rest of the kids, YOUR kid needs to go somewhere else. Not really an issue.

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You just sound like a bully

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I have to agree with the kids need naps crew... and not just because I need a break, but because the kids do. If a child falls asleep, they're tired. Yes as adults you can put us in a dark room we'll fall asleep, because most of us don't get enough sleep for how hard we work, and quite possibly in a perfect world should get a nap. LOL But since that's not going to happen at least the little guys should get to rest when they need it. With mine I didn't realize for a long time that I was missing the window of time when they would be able to go to sleep. I was putting them down to sleep at 8:30-9 and they pushed their bedtimes to 10 or 11 acting completely wired the whole time. We made bedtime 7pm, made the routine set in stone, use white noise, and bedtime is now not a big hassle. It is bedtime period. A helpful book for us was The No-Cry Sleep Solution For Toddlers & Preschoolers by Elizabeth Pantley. Tons of good suggestions for setting up a good routine, environment, and diet that will set children up to be able to fall asleep at bedtime.

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At my former center yes there was a mandatory naptime. No child is forced to sleep but they must be on their mat and lay quietly. If they fall asleep great. If not, then depending on the child we would give them books or puzzles etc.

State requires that should a child not be asleep within 30 mins they must be allowed to get up and walk around. We never allowed that since they would wake up their friends and all heck is broken loose.

State law also states that naptime is no longer than 3 hours. Our nap was from 1230-230 so only 2 hours. Every child was required to get up regardless of what time they went down. The only exception we made was when we had a field trip and if we got back late then the kids would sleep until 3:00. However no longer than that.

Sometimes parents would say they didn't want their kids sleeping or they would ask us to wake them up earlier. Depending on the child we would do it or not. One little boy (3) was there at 6:30 a.m. but wouldn't get picked up until after 6 or later and the parents didnt want him to nap because he didnt sleep well at night. I refused. I said this child is here ALL day (mom was at school, dad at home, yeah I know!) and I wasnt going to make the day miserable for everyone just so he can go to bed at 7 for them. Well, I didn't say it like that but you know what I mean!

I think that if you just let the children all have a rest period and tell the kids that they dont have to sleep but they do need to rest, things will eventually work out IMO

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Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!

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You are correct-some children are more active than others. I have some in my care that are active BUT my STATE still requires me to provide a rest time for the children and will ask what time do the children rest. This is a state rule/law that we have to follow.

I have children come very early in my day-6:30 and if I don't lay them down till 1:00 they have been up 6.5 hours not 4 and are tired-you must take your child to childcare late in the morning and that would make sense of why she isn't tired. The majority of my children are here 9.5-11 hours a day-they definitely need rest.

Parents have asked me not to lay children down for rest time but then when I show them the rule nothing more is said. One parent was surprised when child left here for another childcare and guess what they had to have resttime there also. It is funny because the ones that the parents don't want to fall asleep alsways seem to do the majority of the time. You can't make a child sleep it comes naturally if the child is tired.

Just recently one of mine didn't fall asleep but did rest. Guess what-within minutes after rest time this child was crying because she was tired (she told me this) and ended up in time out because she started being not nice to the other ones here. At pick-up time her mom wasn't happy with her because she knows how this child can be without a nap but didn't blame me for her not sleeping. She just let the child know that she would be sleeping alot earlier at home tonight-that threw the eveing routine for them at home all out of wack.

True, alot of people do not get to stay home and work. My children are pretty much all grown but I keep doing this because it is my career and one I have built up and very proud of. My suggestion to you is maybe look for another provider that fits your childs energy level better or start your own childcare. That is seriously how I started my childcare-I wasn't happy with care my child was receiving and was able to make more doing this than the job I was at. Then you are the rule maker for your child.

The last thing I would suggest is contact your state and ask for a childcare providers handbook that lists all the rules and regulations for your state. I bet you would be amazed and the things we have to follow and do in order to "stay home with our children".

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This post is so offensive that it's hard to decide what to address first.

Naptime for my daycare kids IS breaktime for me and I can use my computer as I see fit. When it's naptime/rest time for my daycare kids, then that means that whatever the kids are doing, it needs to be done quietly if the child isn't sleeping. That means that I won't be engaging the kids who aren't sleeping in any way other than making sure that whatever they are doing, they are doing it quietly. It's not fair to have a lot of noise that prevents the kids who want to sleep from getting rest.

For all of the parents who have kids who fight bedtime, first off, I understand how frustrating it is because my daughter was the worst when it came to bedtime. It wasn't the daycare's fault. She never slept at daycare (but she did rest quietly or just did quiet rest time activities and wasn't disruptive) and still she fought bedtime. It's not always a clear case of "it's all daycare's fault that my kid won't go to bed". Sometimes kids just fight bedtime. Furthermore, if a kid is active, then what would you suggest that the provider do during naptime with the child? You are thinking about this from a parent's point of view and that's fine for you. You know what you want for your child and that's super. Guess what? Unlike you, I have to keep everyone's best interest in mind as a provider.

When I have the kids in my care napping/resting, I am absolutely putting their health first. Kids need time during the day to unwind. They may not want to sleep and that's OK, but they do need some down time during the day. I never force kids to go to sleep, but they always fall asleep when it's naptime. Sleep is too important for health and growth to be used as a means to make sure that your kid goes to sleep on your schedule. Sure, if you knew what she did every day that she was at daycare and you knew for a fact that it was the same thing that you do with her on the weekends and any other day that she might be home with you, then maybe you could say that she doesn't need a nap but daycare schedules are usually a whole lot different. If your child is falling asleep at naptime at daycare, it's most likely because she needs the sleep then.

Providers aren't trying to make life hard for the parents by having a nap time. Providers aren't trying to be lazy, either.

Wow. Just wow.

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For one you CANNOT force a child to nap, its merely a quiet time for those that need to nap or wind down. I'm CERTAIN the 4yr old in question is sleeping because he/she is exhausted because they are getting a lot of activity compared to being at home. For the children that don't nap most daycares have the child read on their mat ect. and fyi all providers use this time wisely to pick up, clean or plan activities.

The parents that complain about naps are always the ones that put them to bed early at night because they don't want to deal with them. And I hope when your child naps on the weekend your not on the computer, lol...

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Hello, I was having problems with my son's daycare provider requiring my son to take long naps, or lay on a cot quietly for 2-3 hours each day.

My son is 4.5 yrs old, his bedtime is 8:30pm every day, and we wake up at 7:30am every day. He would get dropped off at daycare around 8:30am every weekday. This was an in-home daycare, and she cared for about 6 other children during the day, too. Age ranged from 2 yrs-5yrs. As soon as I began bringing my son there, he began having sleeping problems at night. Before, he was always OUT at 8:30pm, when I put him in bed. But with this new daycare and the naps, he wasn't falling asleep until 10pm, but we still had to wake up at 7:30 each day, so this wasn't working. I went to the provider, explained that my son did not need a 2 hour nap and I questioned her and asked why he wasn't allowed to play or watch a movie, or SOMETHING, she told me that she needed 2-3 hours for her "break" and all the kids were required to lay quietly. I took my son out of this daycare, and got him into another one where he does not have to take naps because he is FOUR YEARS OLD and no longer needs one. Sure, he fell asleep, if you were forced to lay on a cot for 2-3 hours, would you not fall asleep???? How freaking boring is that??

What I do not understand is why do you need a 2-3 hour break? I work 8+ hours a day, too, and I get a 30-min lunch @ work, I do not get 2-3 hours to do whatever I please! I clean, do laundry, get on the computer, enjoy free time, etc, on the WEEKENDS or nights after my child falls asleep. I don't take a big honkin' break right in the middle of my work day, who does that!!? I was paying this lady to care for my son, if I tell you he does not need a nap, then he doesn't. I pay you! I have to do what my boss @ work tells me, what is the difference here? I expect the providers to do what is best for my child, & I will be the one to tell you what is best for my child, thank you very much.

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AMEN!!!!!! I am a home Daycare Provider, and I do NOT force naps on those who do not benefit from them. The little ones nap in bedrooms and the bigger ones play quiet games or visit my play yard. Why is that so hard? Why must Providers be so regimented and FORCE naps upon kids? Every kid is different. They have different needs. Providers, of all people, should recognize and respect this. Let the kids be individuals. Yes, there are exceptions. There are kids who will try to refuse, but they really do need one or else they are hellions. I'm speaking of the ones who genuinely do not benefit from a nap, and in fact stay up late because of it. It's not healthy. I so wish Providers would recognize this. As far as your break, I'm sure you have times where kids are playing independently when you can sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes. Or when most of them are napping and just your non-nappers are up, I'm sure you can find some time to clean your kitchen. The non-nappers are old enough to play for a time while you get your chores done. I just don't get it, and I never will.

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Why are you assuming a provider would force a child to nap? I don't provide care to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. I'm not FORCING anyone. As soon as they have outgrown nap time they leave.
The "individuals" and "exceptions" don't attend my day care.

I "recognize" that there are children of ALL ages.. from birth to age five that don't need sleep. I hear that all the time from the parents. I BELIEVE them and I BELIEVE you when you say it. I agree. I just don't provide day care to those kids. See?

I won't accept a ten minute break here and there. I want a full two and a half hour break every day in my twelve hour day. I "need" that. I'm an "individual" and an "exception" that I have to have a break. Why is it that you can understand that a child may need "individual" and "exception" but you don't believe the adult may need the same consideration?

I say "let the providers be individuals".

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This wasn't directed at you. Sorry if you thought so. Obviously if the nap issue is covered in your interview and you only accept those who NEED the nap, you are not forcing anything. I feel that some do force it, however. That is based on various comments I have read here over the months. Nobody specific. As to the issue of our breaks, I'm sorry you don't agree, but I just think this is our job and little breaks here and there should be sufficient. Yes, every adult is an individual and therefore has different needs than others, but we are adults and should be able to handle a 10-hr day with several small breaks and downtime. It's just my opinion. Thanks for listening!

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i agree - there are plenty of times for breaks throughout the day. if you were working outside of the home would you be able to do your laundry or clean the kitchen, OR have a 2-2.5 or 3 hour break even if you work 12 hours? NOOO!

i woke up a little boy the other day because he had slept 2.5 hours and skipped breakfast. his mom said i could've let him sleep and i told her i didn't want him staying up all night. parents know when you let them sleep. my son hardly goes to his grandma's anymore cus it's OBVIOUS after he's been to her house - he wants to stay up all night. youre right about there being providers that force naps - and there are ones that get downright mean about it because they think that's their break time. i've always heard that the kids don't have to sleep if they lay quietly, look at a book, etc., but i've never seen it. what i have seen is kids being told to go to sleep and threatened if they don't.

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I'm surprised this works. I wouldn't take my child anywhere that I knew she had to leave once she quit napping. Kids quit napping at all different ages. I also would never tell a DCF that they were done because DCK didn't sleep. Really?

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I would love to send non-nappers out into the yard to play but that's against licensing regs here. I have to be on the same floor as sleeping children AT ALL TIMES. That means no going to clean my kitchen for me so I get to do that while the kids eat. And obviously kids can't go outside if I can't directly supervise them.

I'd love to let them play quietly in the playroom while the nappers napped. I've tried. It doesn't work.

I don't think any of us who require a quiet time during the day are "forcing" kids who don't benefit from a nap to nap. We are enforcing a quiet time, where kids need to lay down and rest, NOT necessarily sleep. It is in my licensing regs that I must allow a quiet environment away from any activity for children under 5 to nap for 2 hours.

Please don't jump down everyone's throat because they require a naptime. If you don't, great, that works for you. It's NOT what would work for a lot of us.

If the parents aren't happy with it, they can move along to the next provider who don't have little ones who NEED their sleep.

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This is the song that never ends.......

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Yes, it goes on and on, my friend.......

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Sounds just like my son, except the preschool/childcare was trying to get my son to nap 3 hours. He is now in Montessori too and loves it. I am finding that good preschool teachers/caregivers are difficult to find.

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Thank you!!!!!! Some people just aren't fit to be providers.

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I have a three year old girl who is also resisting nap, but mainly at daycare. At home she has her own room. We put her to bed at the same time as the daycare to try and accomodate her routine. Mostly my DD will nap at home, sometimes she plays quietly in her bed, sometimes she makes noise and I have to go and tell her to go to sleep. The rule of thumb is, if I don't hear her, I assume she is sleeping.

She always goes to bed with very little complaints at 8:00pm. Since we have been having napping issues, we have been keeping her up until 8:30pm to try and help the daycare lady.

At daycare she has been refusing to lay down with the other kids, and is being defient about it to the daycare lady.

I have asked the daycare lady if she has tried giving her a book, her letting her come down and watch TV on the couch. The daycare lady's response to the book was she "rustles" and wakes the other kid. When I suggested the TV she said, "She sits for 10 min and then begins to run." I tried giving her a backpack of quiet toys from home, that I know she sits quietly and plays with. She put her in the snack room where there is just one other baby in a playpen. She apparently threw her books around and made a lot of noise to attempt to wake up the other baby.

I have tried writing her a special story, where she is the main character about a girl who doesn't like naps but falls alseep and has an adventure, so I tell her to close her eyes and think about going on an adventure.

I have tried giving her chocolate (which we hate doing) when she sleeps. Now if she doesn't nap at daycare, I take her home and give her a nap at home rather than taking her to the park like I usually do. The first time I did that it worked for a week, but then yesterday she refused to nap again.

I know the daycare lady prefers babies to toddlers, and she told us in the interview that she usually doesn't take toddlers but since she had my 18month old she would keep my 3 year old. My three year old has been the oldest since she started there. The second oldest turned three and was kicked out shortly thereafter for being agressive. She raves about how much she loves my 18 month old but complains every day about my three year old. She doesn't eat, she doesn't sleep.

Honestly, with regards to the eating, if she doesn't eat, put the food in front of her, if she doesn't eat, take it away. What is the big deal. She is not starving. I never have these problems at home.

I think I am doing everything in my power to help the daycare lady, but I am so tired of hearing her complain every day about my daughter. My three year old behaves quite well at home. She sleeps, she eats with minimal complaining, she likes to help. Even at daycare she never hits other kids, she shares.

Is it normal for the daycare provider to complain so much, and seem not to come up with any ideas herself to fix the problem? I feel like as soon as there is a problem, the daycare lady wants me to fix it. Isn't it part of your job to maintain disicpline in your daycare? There is only so much I can do as I am not there. It doesn't really work to discipline a child after the fact.

Does anybody else have any other ideas for getting a child to lay down? I am scared the daycare lady is going to kick her out.

I live in Quebec and the daycare is subsidized, so we pay it in our Tahsis; however, finding a spot here is nearly impossible. This daycare is at least very kind. I had one who was very cold and complained that my daughter had diahrea all the time. She serverd my daughter pizza and chicken nuggets all the time. As soon as we switched and she had real food, the diahrea stopped.

Basically, the subsidized daycare situation makes it a sellers market. They have 20 kids lined up for your spot so they don't really have to put in any effort. If they don't like the kid, they just kick them out and take another one. Then you end up paying $25 a day on top of paying the taxes.

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Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......

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Thank you so much for your reply Crystal. It is so nice to know not everybody thinks I am a b**ch.

I think I will start looking again, but it is a bit of a difficult situation here in Aylmer. I have had my three year old on the wait list for every big daycare in the area, since conception. I got called back for one, we went and did the interview, they accepted us, we gave them a void check, signed the contract, and they told us a sibling of on the kids in the daycare took the spot.

For several months I had my three year old near my house and my baby in Ottawa, which is in Ontario. I would leave my work in Ottawa, go to Aylmer, pick up my three year old, drive 45 minutes to Ottawa again, then drive an hour back to my house. I was leaving for work at 6am and arriving home with the kids at 6pm and then I had to cook supper. I got to spend no time with them. I could not pick up from the Ottawa daycare first, because it would have taken me 45 min to get there from work, and then an hour to get my three year old and I would have been late picking her up. I am sure all the providers on this board can tell you how they feel about parents that are late. The Ottawa daycare was just much more accomodating, she knew my situation and made an exception for me to help me out. Plus my baby was the only one at her daycare at the time, and she wasn't dropped off until after 9am.

I have been waking my daughter during the night and at 6:00am when I leave for work since we have taken away her diapers at night and that did help for a while. My husband gets up with her at 7:00am and refuses to get up any earlier. I think now she has just adjusted to me waking her up and is better at going back to sleep. We have been keeping her an extra half an hour, but I'm not sure that helps since I am noticing when I pick her up she is more tired and cranky, and I think it might make it more difficult for the daycare lady since she is less reasonable. Both the daycare lady and I agree that she does need a nap. She is tired and cranky when she doesn't have one.

The daycare lady often takes them to the park in the morning, and it is a 10 block walk for my daughter. We do notice that she sleeps more often when they go to the park, and I pointed this out to her as the problem started one week where it rained every day; however, the daycare lady pointed out that she slept all winter and they were inside most of the time.

Thank you so much for your support Crystal. It really helps.

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Frustrated Mommy,

I am actually dealing with this right now. My 4 year old dkg, whom has been with me since 6 weeks, now does not sleep at naptime. She is not disruptive in any way, just cannot fall asleep (mostly she just watches me mop, fold clothes and blows me kisses...).

Now,After 30 minutes down on her mat, I put headphones on her, scoot her up to my desk, and log her into Time4learning.com. Her mother and I both have the password, her mother pays the subscription fee, and she feels like such a big girl!! She even can print out her scores and certificates for the week. It is preparing her for pre-k, next year while allowing me to meet the needs of everyone else.

As a mother I understand your need to see your daughter treated like the unique person she is and the effects of "Mothers guilt". As a childcare provider I understand the frustration of one child/parent making it difficult to care for the rest in a fair and consistent manner. As a paramedic I know the outright anger of transporting a dead child that could have been saved if he/she had been taught "NO" early and consistently. Please understand that is what is fueling the longterm providers frustration....not freetime to watch their soaps...I promise.

If my particular dkg had been disruptive or if this was more about being spiteful in any way, I would have to stick to the original rules set up in the original contract. (I consider it a reward, not a right.) If the "request" was from the mother (for reasons like "I want her to sleep for the night-time babysitter so she does not kick her out" ...yes, that happens way too much), even though the child obviously needed the nap, I would have to stick to the contract. I am about the best interest of the child. Sometimes that is not the best interest of myself or the parents.

I know it has been questioned why people get into home daycare...Everyone has their own reason. I would recommend asking them, in person, the first time you meet a prospective caregiver. It might save you some heartache. I, personally, got into daycare after my son died in daycare. It afforded me the ability to stay home with my own children, when I was ready to have more, while earning an income to afford them... Now they are teenagers and the dck have made them better, more compassionate people.

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can I just second the below sentence,.... I totally agree!



Now they are teenagers and the dck have made them better, more compassionate people.[/quote]

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Wow, thanks for sharing. That is so terribly, incredibly sad.

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Crystal, some of your suggestions are really quite helpful, but I would like to point out that we have not heard the providers side and as such shouldn't be making any kind of judgement about "what kind" of provider this is.

Personally, I have a difficult time believing the the OP is truly waking her child up in the middle of the night...at least I hope she isn't.

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Thanks Jen, but I don't think I need the providers side, this parent sounds pretty truthful....she seems to have done many things to make it work for all involved, but the provider just isn't responsive to that.

In regards to waking her child up at night, she's potty training her for bedtime, I see nothing wrong with waking up to go potty.

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We put her to bed at 8:30. I wake her at 10 when I go to bed to pee, my husband wakes her at 12:00 when he goes to bed to pee. I wake her 6am to pee. The first week that we did this, she actually slept at daycare. Then Monday, she didn't sleep. Yesterday she slept again. Monday and Tuesday were her first dry nights. Before that it was a week of changing the bed ever morning.

My daycare lady is a very kind and loving woman and we get along great. She did tell us when we interviewed that she doesn't usually take toddlers; however, she agreed to take my three year old so that she could be with my 18 month old.

She just has a tendency to complain about my three year old and compare her to the baby. She will say to my three year old, the 18 month old, eats sleep, plays by herself, and never causes trouble. Then she will admit that the three year old actually never hits, doesn't usually cause trouble, she just doesn't want to sleep or eat.

I think she has just made her mind up that she doesn't want toddlers and so reacts negatively to my daughter. I think if she would just give her a chance, and we could fix this nap issue, then everything would be ok. I actually love the woman, and the baby loves her, which is a reason I want to stay. If I didn't like her, I would have made an effort to find something else.

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Crystal,
Parents can have opinions but they can't have opinions that fundamentally change the structure of your business. It would be like going into McDonalds and demanding organic chicken nuggets. Even though you believe it's better for your kid doesn't mean McDonalds has to accomodate that.

Having a child up at nap is HUGE in this industry. My State even goes as far as to completely protect Centers here by making it a LAW that all children under FIVE be given a two hour nap/rest period. They even state in the actual code that the reason for this is, in part, "to give Staff a much needed break". Seriously. Wanna know why they put that in there? They put it in because they had to field SO many complaints from parents turning their Center into the State because they FORCED the kids to take a nap. The Centers have power ($$$) and FOUGHT the State. The State learned very quickly that they couldn't force Centers to keep kids up at nap just because the parent wanted it. It was easier for the State to agree with the Centers and be able to refuse to take a child abuse complaint on a Center for "making" the kids nap. They were spending way too much staff time dealing with this ONE issue that they made the decision to side with the Centers.

Now the Centers tell the parents to bug off. No nappy ... no care.

The parents solutions to this... by reading the OP are to let her be up. It's very black and white. Anything that she wants to be done with the child means her actually being UP. It's not about the three year old being quietly active during nap it's about her laying in one spot, being quiet, and not getting up until she is told she can. THAT'S nap time. ANYTHING that alters that isn't going to work with most providers.

There should not be a problem with this. It's very simple. Ask your provider if she provides services to children who do not need a full afternoon nap. If she says she does not then go somewhere else. If you can't find a business to offer the services you want then you either stop needing that service or accept the service that doesn't offer it. Providers shouldn't be in the middle of the kid and the parents wants. She offers what she offers... take it or leave it. It's not personal. It's just like every other business.

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Look, I can empathize with you. I had a non-napping child as well. However, I never, ever expected her to disregard her policies, the law, the rights of the other kids to nap or her own right to some down time. I made it clear to my daughter that she was to lay quietly and she would never sleep but she would always lay quietly. I have a home daycare business and I've always stuck to my nap policy. I get that parents don't want their providers to force their kids to sleep, but who says they have to sleep? I require them to lay quietly for a good portion of nap time. Please remember that you may not be the only parent with kids in your provider's care so she may have other people to please other than you. Also, when was the last time that you had to try to pacify a 3 year old without waking 5 other sleeping children? It's no easy task. As far as this business of providers not being willing to take on a challenge, I have to respectfully disagree. I love a good challenge, but I also know when it's a challenge that I don't want to take on. Your job is not like our jobs. I'm not saying that one job is better than the other, I'm just saying that they are totally different jobs. You can't compare taking on a challenge at your job to taking on a challenge at ours. Totally different. You have a boss and a goal to accomplish. We don't have bosses but we have many different people to try to make happy. It's apples and oranges.

It's great that you are willing to offer up suggestions to your provider. That's a good thing. I wish that more parents would do that, because it truly is a team effort. I'd gladly take suggestions from the parents of the kids in my care if I needed some help and I have asked for suggestions when I come across a situation that I need help on. My ego's not so big that I think that I'm the authority on all things child related. I know that you offer your provider suggestions and you say that you are on her side, but some of your comments about her tend to give me the impression that she's not doing good enough for you. I get the feeling that you think that the grass would be greener on the other side. Could just be me, I guess, but you seemed a little passive-aggressive about your provider.

If you're not happy with the nap time situation, then I think that you should try to find a provider who doesn't have napping kids or you need to keep reinforcing with your daughter that naptime is quiet time. That means no playing or talking or any other activity that could get loud. Since the other kids do nap, then it's your job to find a way to make it work. If the shoe were on the other foot, and your kid was the one with the interrupted nap, you'd expect the same, I'd bet.

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Not all children need a nap. At 3 years old it is a given, among many parents that children do not nap anymore or they do not need one because they will not go to bed at night. It is like this way with ALL my friends and their kids too! Your kids were just different. Their bodies are changing. All 3 of my children are up late if they take a nap and my friends' kids too! Parents are blessed if their children take naps and then do not go to bed late at 3 and 4 years old. Your one child that is falling asleep within 5 minutes is just used to falling asleep at that time and it doesn't help her/him that the other children are going to sleep too! The parents want her to stay up so that she will go to bed. She just needs to get used to it. They are probably going out of their minds and you don't care. When children are babies parents may have a later bedtime for children because their sleep changes with age. I bet you that most of your parents do not tell you how late their children are up because of your nap policy. If you be respectful of other parents then you won't have problems. Maybe you can have an area for children whose parents do not want them to nap where they can do quiet activities and cal it "quiet time." Have you heard of "quiet time?" It is what children do when they are 3 years and up instead of napping so that they do not stay up all hours of the night. If you advertise that, I can guarantee you will have more business than anyone!! Having that child sit on the mat is telling that child that it is nap time. You need to take away the mat! This is very simple!

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OK, to the poster who said to take the naptime mat away, this is not always a possibility. I understand that some kids give up their naps, but that's not my problem. In the state that I live in, a rest/nap time is legally required for kids that are under the age of 6 if they are in care for more than 5 hours a day. I don't tell my kids that they have to sleep, but they do have to rest. It just so happens that ALL of my dcks fall asleep so that tells me that they need the nap. Also, I think that the quiet place, like a mat for example, is necessary in order for a "quiet time" to happen. When was the last time that you tried to get a 3 year old to play quietly while all of the other kids were sleeping? Besides, it's really not fair to let one kid skip rest time while every other kid has a nap time. Plain and simple, kids need time daily to unwind, even if they don't want to sleep. And providers need time to unwind as well, and that's impossible to do if you are trying to keep one child quiet enough so as to not wake up all of the other sleeping kids.

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I tell my families that Here,..ALL children nap,.. if they arent going to bed at night maybe they should get up earlier in the mornings. ??? If that doesnt help maybe a new provider is needed that caters to that niche. I personally dont. I refuse to have kids grouchy at 330 in the afternoon because they havent had a nap and all whiney and mad. Not getting along with their friends because their parent doesnt want them to nap so they go to bed at the parents choice for a bedtime. I understand that some kids need naps,.. and by about 4 some dont,.. but,... When they outgrow their nap,.. they outgrow me. I offer a service and if it doesnt fit your needs,.. by all means, find one that does. No hard feelings. Im up front about my routines and nap times. If Im not a fit for you then good luck to you in finding someone who is.

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IMO, 3 yr olds need a nap. I have kids from 13 months -5 1/2 yrs old. And I will tell you, that they all nap. The 5 1/2 is my daughter. Now, sometimes after lunch, she wil stay up and work on a craft but after about 30 mins or so, she says she's tired and wants to rest. The 3 dck arrive around 6 am and are here until 5. They definetly need a nap. Sometimes, the grandpa of the 4 yr old says that he's outgrown his nap, but I can honestly tell you that he almost always the first one to fall asleep. The kids don't have to sleep. After 30-45 mins or so I will check on them and on the rare occasions when someone is still awake, I will take them in the kitchen to color, do a puzzle or some other quiet activity. But those instances are few and far between.

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My soon to be 4 year old is in daycare and takes a nap. HE DOES NOT NEED A NAP AT 4! He sleeps 2 hours from 1-3pm and then is up until 10:30-11ap at night and it is killing me. Yes, I do have control over my child. I think if the parent does not want their child to take a nap you should respect that. After all we have EMPLOYED YOU! My son does not take naps on the weekend and is in bed by 8-8:30 has a good nights sleep and is fine throught the day. I can't believe some of the respones on here!! My daycare is now working with me and waking my son up early from his nap. I would respect the parents wishes if you want to keep your business.

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I'm glad that you found a provider who is willing to work with you, but you can't just assume that your child's need to not nap trumps the needs of the other children who do need a nap and the provider who deserves a small break. It's also very presumptuous of you to say that your daycare provider "works for you". I''ve got a news flash for you...you are NOT her employer. She is her own boss and she can replace you just as easily as you can replace her. It's also not her problem if your child won't go to sleep at the regular bed time. Every single kid in my care takes naps and they all go to bed for their parents at a pretty regular time. Even if my daycare kids didn't go to bed for their parents until super late, that is still not my problem. My daughter was not a napper either, but I never objected to them trying to get her to nap and I never objected to her having to lay quirtly for rest time.

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I have been on both sides of the fence. I sent my kid to a daycare center, and now I run my own family daycare. I take kids ages 5 weeks to 12 years old. Lets start at the daycare center my son went to. He was an infant but I read up on naps, thinking that my child would be there until he was in school. They have a mandatory "quiet" time from 12-3. If your child does not fall asleep and is being loud then they are brought to another room with the awake children. This is not always available for home daycares....

so now on to my own home daycare. I have watched many older children ages 3-5. Each one is different. I try to stress early bedtime, especially with drop off being at 6-7am, which means the kids get up even earlier! The majority of the time when I hear "my kid wont sleep at night" I just let them know that their child falls asleep quickly and obviously still needs a nap, so I try to work with them on ways to get them to sleep at night.
Now for the children that do not fall asleep easily, I usually find this out within a few weeks of starting here, we do something a bit different. Those kids are usually 4 or 5 years old. They will help me set up the younger ones for nap, then help me clean up kitchen and play room "as quiet as they can". One 5 year old I had played peekaboo with the newborn I had that obviously was not on a schedule. Then after I am done cleaning I explained to the kids who were helping me out, that it was time for everyone even me to have quiet time. They would get their mat and lay down, and I think it helped because they considered themselves older, and having a privilage was nice to their self esteem. Most times those kids fell asleep, even if for an hour, but woke up refreshed and proud.

I hope that it all works out for you, and you can either get a system that works for your child and provider. I really suggest the "helping" with the older kids. It has helped me alot in the last 10 years!

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Well, it has finally happened. My 3.5 year old (4 in Jan) has been kicked out of her daycare because after 2 hours of laying on her mat, she just can't fall asleep. Are there any subsidized daycares in Aylmer that do not require their children to sleep? I also have an almost 2 year old. I would like to keep them in the same place, but I guess that might be impossible. I am so discouraged right now. I've called one place on magarderie, but there was only 1 available at the moment. She hasn't given us a time limit, but she is getting a 5 month old baby soon, and I am sure she is anxious to be rid of the older child. She really wants to keep the baby of course, since she loves babies. Please let me know if anybody has any space. We are near Champlain Park.

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you is doing what you have to run your place i use to work in a daycare and the parents blam you for ever thing they do. Look you have to tell the parent that the rules is that ever child most take a nape ever day or just dont move read a book. Look if they dont like your rules then they need to find a new provider because you dont need know body to be tick off ever time they pick up they kids just dont for get you have feeling just like them. My 3 kids take naps ever day and still going to bed ever night on time that parent just wanted to say some thing because kids can take a nap and still go to bed on time

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Ditto I agree with you on this one

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Wow as a parent my fears about how childcare providers assume they know more about your child than you do have been confirmed. I have gone rounds and rounds with three daycares insisting that my 4 1/2 year old no longer needs to nap but I am only his mother what do I know. Now before you all say I just don't know how to put my child to bed you should all know on the weekends when he hasn't taken a nap I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM PUTTING MY CHILD TO BED, he is in bed by 8 no problem. His current center has a nap time from 1-3 or when the wake up. 2 hours is way too long and 3 is way too late to be waking up. I honestly would have no problem with a 30 min nap at say noon but anything more than that is excessive. Just because a child will go to sleep doesn't mean they need the sleep. If you put me on a cot and turned off the lights in the middle of the day at my work I would nod off too, and you know what I would be kept up when it was time for me to go to sleep. For those of you that won't wake up a child, shame on you I too have arrived at 4pm to find my child just woken up because he fell asleep at the end of naptime, gosh he must have finally nodded off out of the bordom of expecting a 4 yr old to sit quietly in the dark for 2 hours and "read". I guess those of you that require by contract that you get a 2 hour break in the middle of the day better stick to running your own daycare because no other jobs out there get to take 2 hours off in the middle of theday. Also if you would like to know as a parent what annoys us about daycare workers is that somehow you act like we work for you and we are to do as you say, well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU

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Well, first, let me say, there are providers out there who WILL work with you on your child's schedule. However, YOU need to find the provider who, from the beginning, agrees to not nap your child. Don't wait until he has been there for awhile and then complain about it. I am one of those providers who would be willing to work with a parent on this, but only if I am asked and treated in a respectful manner.

Now, to an extent, I agree that you should be able to make some of the decisions for your child....especially something like sleep schedule, within reason. However, this comment "well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU" Is WAY off base. You are not your providers employer, and you do not have the right to dictate every "rule" that you set forth....that would be completely unreasonable. What if we did this for EVERY parent who walked through our doors? We would go absolutley crazy trying to meet the demands of numerous parents who do not understand the dynamics of group care. We would then end up out of business, because it would drive us to the point of hating our work.

If you want a caregiver for your child that strictly adheres to "the rules that you set forth" then I suggest you find a Nanny who will work in your home. Whom you will also pay taxes for, unemployment insurance for, workers comp for. THEN you are an employer.

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What Crystal said.

Furthermore, most states do have rules stating that all children MUST have a rest period during the day. Even for school agers. Most (all?) states even mandate how long that rest period is to be. In my state, we HAVE to provide that quiet time, but children are NOT required to sleep. Kids that don't sleep (in my care) have other options--books, puzzles, coloring quietly, watching a show (the only TV time we have usually), and possibly other quiet options depending on the age of the child in question. If you don't like the options your center is using, find another one. Centers, on the whole, tend to be a lot more inflexible in their options than, say, a family child care.

We (as a family child care provider) do NOT get a "two hour break" in the middle of the day. During that time, we are eating our own lunch (maybe), cleaning, preparing the afternoon's activities, doing paperwork, lesson and activity planning, cleaning, documenting the morning's activities, cleaning, and maybe, if everyone naps the whole time (which is rare) we have time to catch five minutes to ourselves to kick back and relax.

If you truly want everything in your control, get a nanny. Or stay home with your child yourself.

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well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU[/quote]

Perhaps you are referring to a Nanny? We are not them. In order to make a statement like that you also have to cough up 500 - 800 dollars per week. Not the 140-200 you are paying.

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It's really quite simple, my house, my policies, my rules.......if they do not work for you this is not the place to enroll your child. I have a home daycare with 5-6 children ages 2-5 who nap from 1-3 daily. They are all asleep within 10 min of laying down and parents have no bedtime issues. Kids need sleep. Bottom line, if the policies set forth by the provider do not work for you, don't enroll. You are no my "boss" and cannot fire me lol, you can certainly disenroll your child from care but I will not change my policies for any parent. If you cannot find a child care setting that works for you then you need a nanny.

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Ahahahahahaha! I'm sorry, this post is hilarious!

If you don't like the RULES, then take your child elsewhere. Better yet, stay HOME with your child and see what it's like in the real world. Did you know that in the real world there are also rules that have to be followed? They're called LAWS. You feel that the rules don't apply to you. I wonder how many laws don't apply to you. This is what you are teaching your child now at 4 1/2. Just wait until he reaches his teen years - you're in for a bumpy ride.

The child that refuses to rest will 9 times out of 10 will wake those that do need a rest with their shinanigans. Sorry about geeking but "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

But.. like I said, if you don't like it and feel your child isn't being treated right, by all means, find a place that is a better fit or take care of him yourself.

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Imagine having a birthday party for 8 children under the age of 5 at your house, with no other parents there to help you. Now do that for 10-11 hours a day, 5 days a week. Make sure to plenty of meals and activites! Oh, and no one has had a nap? arrrggggg!!!!

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My son is 4 1/2 and is being forced to take naps by his daycare. He hasn't slept before 10:00 since preschool let out a month ago - and yes, he has a regular bedtime, he just cant sleep and is crying in his bed. There is no reason for a 4 year old child to take a nap other than the laziness of the daytime caretaker. My boy walked into daycare this morning (and many mornings before ) proclaiming that he wanted to sleep at night not in the day but once again his wish was not honored. I guess thats what minimum wage gets you.

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Well, since YOU are his parent and his daycare situation is clearly not working for him, what are YOU doing to fix it?

If the current provider doesn't offer the services you need, shouldn't you be looking for one that does? What does wage have to do with it? This is simply about what services ARE offered, versus which ones ARE NOT offered.

As his parent, why don't you set about "honoring" his wishes? Or, is that too much work? Much easier to complain than to fix, I suppose.

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This is SO sad.

Why would you take your child somewhere where they are FORCING him to do something HE doesn't want to do and YOU don't want him to do? Why are you allowing him around a minimum wage employee who is lazy? Why would you take him back many mornings and stand there and LISTEN to him say the words that he doesn't want to sleep during the day and then LEAVE........ HIM....... THERE? You KNOW his wishes are not being honored and you walk away?

He needs a PARENT to make sure his wishes are HONORED and he is not FORCED to do something he doesn't want and clearly doesn't need. YOU have to make sure that happens.... YOU

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If it's so important to you that his caretaker honour his wishes then you need to find him a caretaker who will. This is not on them...you were the one who dropped him off there.

My own children go to bed between 7:30-8pm. We just recently moved my 8yo's bedtime to 8pm. They like their sleep.

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I am a little sad by the comments from some parents on this thread. There are great providers and not so great providers. Just as there are great people in your (parents) line of work and not so great people.

We are all human. Most of use work our butts off trying to make sure we provide a great enviroment and we even use whatever little income is left over to put twoards toys, equiptment, and whatever we think your child will like.

It is your choice who you leave your child with. Like Nannyde said.

We are hard working citizens too. We try to please every parent in the ways we can.

I guess I just wanted to say, I am working just like you. I like my job and I try very hard to do it well, just as I am sure you do to. So to read the things you wrote makes me very sad for the future daycare providers. Parents are setting up expectations that no ONE human can live up to. There is usually only ONE of us...all day long. And we still put on a happy smile for you after a long hard day. And its amazing that we still find joy in our job when parents constently fight our program and put us down.

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