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View Poll Results: Where do you stand on Gay Marriage?
Marriage is only between a man and a woman 33 24.26%
Never should be allowed 6 4.41%
Should be allowed 89 65.44%
It's none of my business 28 20.59%
eeewwwww....that grosses me out :/ 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll
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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Gay Marriage
Crystal 01:58 PM 03-29-2013
Where do you stand? You can vote more than once
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Crystal 02:04 PM 03-29-2013
Well, your supposed to be able to vote more than once....not sure if it is gonna let us.
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Bookworm 02:31 PM 03-29-2013
Me personally, I could care less. With all the issues this country is having, this is what people want to focus on? What business is it of anyone who someone wants marry?
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daycarediva 02:58 PM 03-29-2013
I am socially liberal, so gay marriage is no big deal to me, and I think they should have legal rights (and pay the dang marriage penalty taxes!) BUT I also think that churches should be able to decide if they will/will not allow gay couples to be married in their church without fear of reprisal/discrimination charges, etc. kwim?
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CedarCreek 03:06 PM 03-29-2013
I think everyone should enjoy the same rights, including gay couples.

I think it's disgusting that this is still an issue. It should have been passed long ago and we should be on to frying bigger fish.
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Blackcat31 03:15 PM 03-29-2013
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
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Unregistered 03:25 PM 03-29-2013
I'm with Blackcat 100%.
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Hunni Bee 03:29 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
I agree totally. There just wasn't an option for it .
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crazydaycarelady 03:39 PM 03-29-2013
Doesn't being able to vote more than once skew the results?

I don't care what people do in their bedrooms and I don't care if gay people have a civil union either. The only thing I do care about is having the topic shoved down my throat, with gay parades, over the top PDA's, etc.
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youretooloud 04:14 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I am socially liberal, so gay marriage is no big deal to me, and I think they should have legal rights (and pay the dang marriage penalty taxes!) BUT I also think that churches should be able to decide if they will/will not allow gay couples to be married in their church without fear of reprisal/discrimination charges, etc. kwim?

Perfect!!!

I'm a liberal Christian. And, while I want my Gay friends to be married, and have the insurance, and other rights that they honestly deserve, I don't appreciate some of the hate filled messages from Liberals. I never (I know it's there) see or hear a Christian say anything mean or hateful about Gays, but Heaven forbid someone say "I believe it's a sin to live as a Gay couple" then people start calling it "hate". When it's not hate.. it's a conviction of their faith.

I don't care for the word "Abomination" though, which I see a lot. Also, "God doesn't make mistakes" as the argument against Gays. Because to me that sounds like "Well, awesome! So, you are saying it's not a mistake? And, this is meant to be... great, let's move on"

Christians aren't going anywhere..... Gays aren't going anywhere.... Liberals aren't going anywhere...so, everybody needs to get along.
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youretooloud 04:20 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by crazydaycarelady:
I don't care what people do in their bedrooms and I don't care if gay people have a civil union either. The only thing I do care about is having the topic shoved down my throat, with gay parades, over the top PDA's, etc.
Nobody does. I dislike PDA from anybody.

But, I like the idea of legal marriage, for reasons of Custody, or choices when the other partner can't make his or her own choice. If I were gay, and my mom had to make a major life decision for me, she couldn't.. I'd want my partner who I would hope would be better equipped to handle it make the choice.

I want them to have legal rights to homes, children, etc in case of death. Or family medical leave when one partner needs the help. If left to the individual state, bad choices will be made, and partners could lose everything.

I think a couple (man and woman) who just Live together, but never get married will lose out on a lot of benefits if one partner dies... but, THAT was their choice to live together rather than be married. I think gay couples should be given that same choice.

But, I fully stand behind the belief my church has that it shouldn't be legal. I know that is a contradiction...but, I feel like a Christian or any religion should not be attacked or called "Hate" because of their beliefs.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:01 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
I feel the same way.
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spud912 05:20 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
Ditto
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Starburst 05:29 PM 03-29-2013
I believe a marraige is between TWO concenting adults who love each other and want to commit to only be with that one person for the rest of their life. After all, its mostly a legally binding pledge or vow that you will be with that person and foresake all others.

So I have no issue with gay marraige.... polygamy is another story.
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MyNana23 05:30 PM 03-29-2013
I've been lurking on here a long time (sorry..) but I just registered because I wanted to post as someone and not anonymously....LOL! I too think that there is a lot of uproar over the gay marriage issue and all that energy could be used to try to solve much more important problems in the world..

I am a Christian but a liberal type of person who can accept the gay marriages as long as no one is stuffing the concept down my throat and I don't have to see PDA everywhere...and I don't like heterosexual couples mauling each other either ...there is a time and place for activities like that...like the privacy of your own home??

There are so many other things that people should be worked up about and trying to solve...what bothers me is the people who rant and rave about gay people and the "crimes" they are guilty of by loving another human being BUT they are out stabbing people in the back, lying, cheating, stealing...and purporting to be good "Christians"...

I think if a couple is in love, wants to be in a committed relationship, remains faithful to their partner, is a law-abiding person then shouldn't they have the same chance to love and be loved?

I had a cousin who was gay who passed away from AIDS...many people in our family turned their backs on him...his parents were VERY religious people...but that didn't stop him from having a lover (although none of us knew him or ever met him) , that didn't stop him from contracting AIDS and that didn't stop him from dying a horrible, painful death...it broke my heart ...he was a kind, loving, gentle man who wouldn't hurt a fly but he suffered through an awful, awful death because at that time, people didn't "come out" and he was in a bad relationship with someone he shouldn't have been (it's believed that the lover infected him) ...had he been "allowed" to have a life with someone who he loved instead of someone who took advantage of his innocence and vulnerability, he probably would still be with us today and he hopefully would have been happy like he deserved instead of having to hide who he was ...maybe he would have even had kids...who would have been lucky to have a dad like he would have been..

I know not everyone will like my story or agree but if you've ever seen someone dying from AIDS because they have to hide and sneak around because people hate you and your lifestyle , then you might understand better...

There are criminals (child molesters, murderers, rapists, etc. ) who are treated better than a gay person ...and that is SO wrong and SO sad...

Ok, I'm off my soap box now...as usual , I talk too much...thanks for reading this if you get this far..and I've enjoyed (and will enjoy) this forum very much!
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MarinaVanessa 05:35 PM 03-29-2013
I voted that I think it should be allowed and that it's none of my business.
To make it simple and quick:

I don't have a right to tell other people how they should live.

My beliefs should not determine other people's happiness.

Although I have gay/lesbian friends and love them to death and would fight for them to have the right to marriage (civil not religious) I would not want to live that way nor would I want my children to either ... but I would still support and love my children if they did.

We have separation of church and state.

If religious organizations don't want to allow gay/lesbian people/couples into their congregations or don't want to marry them religiously then they should be able to decide that... I don't however believe that they should decide whether they could get married legally or not.

To me a Civil marriage is not the same as Domestic Partnership. Offering gay/lesbian couples only a Domestic Partnership in lieu of Civil Marriage is splitting hairs. You might as well just allow them the Civil Marriage title. I know I wouldn't be happy with only having a Domestic Partnership with my husband and not a Civil Marriage.

Once somebody asked me what my reaction would be if my son came to me and told me that he was gay. My response was "Hey, it's not my *******". You guys can figure that one out
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Binkybobo 06:20 PM 03-29-2013
I have no problem with it. As far as parades and flaunting it, I think any group of people that have been persecuted and have had to fight for civil rights has had to make an uproar about it and flaunt it. I however don't want to see anyone making out at Denny's like I witnessed a gay couple do. I don't want to see anyone frenching especially in front of my kids. I have yelled at gay and straight couples alike for doing this. I think anyone who has a history and has had to fight for rights deserve to have parades and holidays to celebrate their struggles and the brave people who put their lives and reputations on the line to get them to where they are. Separation of church and state. Marriage equality for all. That is all.
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MotherNature 07:04 PM 03-29-2013
Should be allowed. Nothing wrong with being LGBT. My husband is bi, my eldest kid came out as transgender this year, & we're members of a progressive Christian church that walks in the Pride parade and has many LGBT members. It's part of our everyday life. Shouldn't even still be an issue, sadly.
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MotherNature 07:07 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by Binkybobo:
I have no problem with it. As far as parades and flaunting it, I think any group of people that have been persecuted and have had to fight for civil rights has had to make an uproar about it and flaunt it. I however don't want to see anyone making out at Denny's like I witnessed a gay couple do. I don't want to see anyone frenching especially in front of my kids. I have yelled at gay and straight couples alike for doing this. I think anyone who has a history and has had to fight for rights deserve to have parades and holidays to celebrate their struggles and the brave people who put their lives and reputations on the line to get them to where they are. Separation of church and state. Marriage equality for all. That is all.
QFT Well said.
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nannyde 07:29 PM 03-29-2013
I'm 100 % for same sex marriage.
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Live and Learn 07:35 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm 100 % for same sex marriage.
Totally and completely agree!
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nanglgrl 08:04 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I voted that I think it should be allowed and that it's none of my business.
To make it simple and quick:

I don't have a right to tell other people how they should live.

My beliefs should not determine other people's happiness.

Although I have gay/lesbian friends and love them to death and would fight for them to have the right to marriage (civil not religious) I would not want to live that way nor would I want my children to either ... but I would still support and love my children if they did.

We have separation of church and state.

If religious organizations don't want to allow gay/lesbian people/couples into their congregations or don't want to marry them religiously then they should be able to decide that... I don't however believe that they should decide whether they could get married legally or not.

To me a Civil marriage is not the same as Domestic Partnership. Offering gay/lesbian couples only a Domestic Partnership in lieu of Civil Marriage is splitting hairs. You might as well just allow them the Civil Marriage title. I know I wouldn't be happy with only having a Domestic Partnership with my husband and not a Civil Marriage.

Once somebody asked me what my reaction would be if my son came to me and told me that he was gay. My response was "Hey, it's not my *******". You guys can figure that one out
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm 100 % for same sex marriage.
100%

This Sunday I'm going to visit the United Church of Christ. It’s an inclusive, open and affirming church where no one is turned away for any reason.

Their pastor is gay and married. I'm proud to live in Iowa.
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nannyde 08:13 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
100%

I'm proud to live in Iowa.
Me too :-)
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Scout 08:35 PM 03-29-2013
I just will never get why people still think in this day and age that not everyone has the right to be legally tied to the person they love, regardless of gender!! If one of my DS came to us one day and said that they were gay, I may be hurt(I don't think I would but, since I've never been in this situation IDK) but, I would 100% support them. I would only hope that they found someone to treat them well and love them! If they were not allowed to create a legal union it would break my heart more than the fact if they were gay! I will love them no matter who they are and will love whoever they choose to spend their life with! I would hope society would do the same by the time they are of this age...

edited to say: obviosly I support it!! lol
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Kaddidle Care 08:52 PM 03-29-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
What she said. ^
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Lyss 09:41 PM 03-29-2013
I support the LGBT community and I think they should be allowed to be married. As for the gay pride parades, why not? It's not like its mandatory. There are all kinds of way worse parades and rallies than we should be complaining about.

A good friend of mine's daughter just came out to the family and was disowned by half of the family and I think that is terrible. Someone even suggested she go to "rehab" She is such a caring and sensitive person, she was heartbroken by their response.

I understand that other people don't agree and know that I'm not going to change their minds, I just agree to disagree
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Candy 12:38 AM 03-30-2013
Not to sound rude but for people who don't think they shouldnt get married why does that even bother you why should you care?I just have never understood that.
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Candy 12:41 AM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by Lyss:
I support the LGBT community and I think they should be allowed to be married. As for the gay pride parades, why not? It's not like its mandatory. There are all kinds of way worse parades and rallies than we should be complaining about.

A good friend of mine's daughter just came out to the family and was disowned by half of the family and I think that is terrible. Someone even suggested she go to "rehab" She is such a caring and sensitive person, she was heartbroken by their response.

I understand that other people don't agree and know that I'm not going to change their minds, I just agree to disagree
Rehab for a gay person????? What are people thinking
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Starburst 01:43 AM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by Candy:
Rehab for a gay person????? What are people thinking
There are some sponsered by churches called "pray the gay away" programs but a few months ago in my state they made it illeagle for these kinds of programs to operate- whether they are affiliated with a church or not.
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Sprouts 06:06 AM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.

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jen 08:05 AM 03-30-2013
I have a question...

If we are saying that marriage is a religious term that should only apply to a heterosexual relationships, does that then mean that those who get married in a courthouse, who have not had a religious ceremony are not legally married, rather they are participants in a civil union? I mean, if marriage is a religious term, and one does not participate in a religious ceremony, how can they then be married?

What about Buddhists? As far as I know, Buddha never mentioned the gays, so can Buddhist gay people get married? What about Buddhist straight people? How about the atheists? Since they don't believe in God, do they then not have the right to get married?

I just don't see how applying a Christian definition, that not even all Christians agree on, can be acceptable when used to prohibit individual rights?

If one believes that marriage is only between a man and a women, then by all means, that should marry that way, attend church that way...but why are your beliefs more important than mine? My church is A-OK with the gays, why does someone else's church get to decide what's appropriate for mine? Isn't this why we have a separation between Church and State????

I just think the whole debate is illogical.
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just_peachy 08:12 AM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by Binkybobo:
I have no problem with it. As far as parades and flaunting it, I think any group of people that have been persecuted and have had to fight for civil rights has had to make an uproar about it and flaunt it. I however don't want to see anyone making out at Denny's like I witnessed a gay couple do. I don't want to see anyone frenching especially in front of my kids. I have yelled at gay and straight couples alike for doing this. I think anyone who has a history and has had to fight for rights deserve to have parades and holidays to celebrate their struggles and the brave people who put their lives and reputations on the line to get them to where they are. Separation of church and state. Marriage equality for all. That is all.
I love this last sentiment. My uncle is gay and he goes to all the Pride Parades locally. Last year, his employer (Alaska Airlines!) had a float in the parade partly on his behalf! He has a great time and gets to meet a lot of fun people with a common goal. And he brings home TONS of fun goodies for the kids! (Although those noisy plastic clapping hands had to go ASAP.)
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Blackcat31 08:30 AM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by jen:
I have a question...

If we are saying that marriage is a religious term that should only apply to a heterosexual relationships, does that then mean that those who get married in a courthouse, who have not had a religious ceremony are not legally married, rather they are participants in a civil union? I mean, if marriage is a religious term, and one does not participate in a religious ceremony, how can they then be married?
For me personally? I believe a "marriage" is a union of two heterosexual people who joined together in a religious ceremony in a church by a priest/pastor or minister and the union is now recognized by God.

For others who choose to "marry" outside the sanctuary of a church without the religious meaning....then yes, if you want to get technical, I personally would consider that a civil union or legal commitment.

That is MY PERSONAL belief. HOWEVER, I would not judge or tell someone else what they can or can't do.

I believe others should do what is right for them. I personally would never have gotten married by anyone other than a priest/pastor or minister and I would not have considered having any type of ceremony that was not religious based.

Originally Posted by jen:
What about Buddhists? As far as I know, Buddha never mentioned the gays, so can Buddhist gay people get married? What about Buddhist straight people? How about the atheists? Since they don't believe in God, do they then not have the right to get married?
I can't answer any of these questions because I don't believe as a Buddhist would or does. I LOVE learning about other religions because I do think knowledge is key to tolerance and acceptance but I don't follow or believe the same things as a Buddhist does so their definition of marriage is completely different than mine.

Originally Posted by jen:
I just don't see how applying a Christian definition, that not even all Christians agree on, can be acceptable when used to prohibit individual rights?.
I was NOT and am NOT applying my Christian definition of marriage to anyone other than me. Others are free to call it what they choose. I simply stated my own personal beliefs. I am not naďve enough to think that MY way is the only way...just what I believe.

Originally Posted by jen:
If one believes that marriage is only between a man and a women, then by all means, that should marry that way, attend church that way...but why are your beliefs more important than mine? My church is A-OK with the gays, why does someone else's church get to decide what's appropriate for mine? Isn't this why we have a separation between Church and State????
I would never view my beliefs as any more important than the next person's beliefs but my beliefs are the most important to me. So yes, I married in the manner in which I believe is right and true and what others do is up to them.

I believe in the end of it all, the way you lived your life and the choices you made are all between you and whatever higher entity (if any) you believe in.

Originally Posted by jen:
I just think the whole debate is illogical.
I think ALL controversial subjects are illogical in one way or another as the nature of controversial subjects is that they don't fit neatly into any one definition or one nice tidy little box.

Controversial topics are illogical because there is no one right or wrong answer and most of the arguments people have for one side or another are based solely on individual beliefs and individual beliefs aren't based on black and white sides but rather on faith.

I definitely don't have all the answers to everything in life so I am limited to allowing my personal set of beliefs be my guiding force and what keeps me from doing certain things and to continue doing other things. NOT saying MY way is better or more right than anyone else's but it is what guides me and influences my choices and actions in life.

so for me it is the right way.
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jen 08:52 AM 03-30-2013
Thank you Blackcat, please know that the "you" was not you in particular, the greater "you." LOL.
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SilverSabre25 09:11 AM 03-30-2013
I get caught up in the fact that
a) whether or not homosexuality is okay is a religious issue, NOT a government issue
b) Separation of Church and State means that the state is not allowed to legislate religion
c) There is no "State Religion" in our country
d) Ergo, the government has NO GROUNDS to make laws prohibiting anyone from marrying anyone else. Civil/courthouse marriages are legal and binding, and the church side is really just for convention and to be married "before God" or whatever.
e) Churches DO have a right to decide not to marry a couple, on whatever grounds they choose based on their own beliefs. They do already, in fact, and that's great.
f) I think that the only grounds ANY government has to legislate marriage is make a legal definition involving age/consent/etc.
g) read between the lines and you'll see that I also don't think that the state has any right to say how many people can marry...because it's a RELIGIOUS ISSUE.
h) this got long, 'grats if you're still reading
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just_peachy 09:16 AM 03-30-2013
My political beliefs and my religious beliefs often conflict. It wasn't until the last election that I became okay with this!
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Blackcat31 09:31 AM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by jen:
Thank you Blackcat, please know that the "you" was not you in particular, the greater "you." LOL.
I know.

I just figured since I gave my personal opinion earlier, I should also back it up if someone were to question it.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself as I have never walked a single centimeter in someone else's shoes so I can't speak for anyone but me.
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craftymissbeth 09:58 AM 03-30-2013
For me, it's none of my business.

I do have a question, though... out of curiosity, when did the church (or whatever religious entity) "invent" marriage. Were there no marriages before that point? I've never heard someone say "marriage was created by such-and-such religious entity and it did not exist before that, therefore marriage is solely a religious experience". If the bible is the source, then marriage did not exist before the bible was written?

I just can't wrap my little ole brain around the belief that marriage is only a religious experience and everyone else must call it a civil union.
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AfterSchoolMom 11:49 AM 03-30-2013
Everyone should have the right to marry (with full benefits) anyone that makes them happy. End of story, as far as I'm concerned.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:57 AM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
For me, it's none of my business.

I do have a question, though... out of curiosity, when did the church (or whatever religious entity) "invent" marriage. Were there no marriages before that point? I've never heard someone say "marriage was created by such-and-such religious entity and it did not exist before that, therefore marriage is solely a religious experience". If the bible is the source, then marriage did not exist before the bible was written?

I just can't wrap my little ole brain around the belief that marriage is only a religious experience and everyone else must call it a civil union.
Marriage was invented by God when the FIRST people were placed on this earth (Adam and Eve), specifically for a man and a woman. Marriage mirrors God's covenant relationship with His people.
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Live and Learn 12:30 PM 03-30-2013
Due to the supreme court hearing a case on the rights of gays and lesbians to marry, our local news stations have been interviewing a lot of local residents on both sides of the issue.

They keep interviewing this one Christian woman who is whole heatedly against equal rights for LGBT. Her main complaint is that marriage is made for a man and a woman to conceive childen to serve her god.

Whenever I hear this I always think about the couples who were married for years and did not have kids whether by choice or infertility. Are the marriages failures in her eyes? Are they failures in her god's eyes? Is their marriage somehow just a civil union because they don't have kids? What if you get married in a church and don't have kids? What if you don't get married in a church and have lots of kids? Which marriage is more legitimate in her eyes or her god's eyes I wonder? What about hetero couples who get married in a church and never have biological children together. Let's say they adopt instead. Is their marriage not legit because they didn't procreate?

On a side note....my next door neighbor (whose house is decorated in crosses, has Jesus bumper stickers, wears all sorts of cross necklaces, earrings, sweatshirts, and sends the most over the top religious holiday cards) has been married in a church twice and now divorced twice. Somehow her failed marriages are legit and my single marriage of 26 years isn't because my wedding wasn't in a church? That is crazy talk to me.

I say let any two adults who love each other marry.
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jen 02:36 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
Marriage was invented by God when the FIRST people were placed on this earth (Adam and Eve), specifically for a man and a woman. Marriage mirrors God's covenant relationship with His people.
So, what about non-Christian people? Do you discount the legitimacy of their marriage and/or religion?

(Not snarky, seriously asking...)
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nannyde 03:28 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by jen:
So, what about non-Christian people? Do you discount the legitimacy of their marriage and/or religion?

(Not snarky, seriously asking...)
That's what I want to know.
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daycarediva 04:07 PM 03-30-2013
I am ALL for separation of church and state, so I don't think "the bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman" should EVER be brought into a court case.
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jokalima 04:21 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
Exactly this but with the difference I don't think they should adopt. I think that deliberately denying a child of a mom/dad figure is not fare.

I am a Christian and I believe that only Christians should follow God's commandments so, there is no way I can tell an Atheist to live according to God's principles because is not going to happen, so same way with Gay couples.

I hear and read a lot ( not only here ) about State/Church separation, but for me is more than that, is also a matter of respect. Some say that the case of the gay couple that could not get married in the place they wanted in NJ is valid because it was not a Church or a official religious building. That is where the respect part comes from, OK, let's say is not officially a religious building but it is in religious grounds, the Church people are telling you that is against their beliefs to rent that to you and that it will be a great conflict with their faith because the building IT IS used for religious ceremonies. Why can't you respect that? Why sue the church? Isn't that doing what you claim Christians do all the time?
I believe they should have the freedom to be with whoever they want, have a civil union completely separated from what is a religious marriage and that the pastors/priests can have the choice to refuse to marry w/out consequences.
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jokalima 04:28 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by jen:
So, what about non-Christian people? Do you discount the legitimacy of their marriage and/or religion?

(Not snarky, seriously asking...)
If you go by Catholicism they will say the marriage is not valid. My mother in law married through the Episcopal Church, after more than 18 years of marriage and following a new faith, she became Catholic, the priest told her she had to get married again by the Catholic Church because basically she had been living with her "partner" during all those years without being married by the catholic church, and she did get married again.

Other christian faith? IDK what they say exactly about it. But most protestant churches do believe marriage is an institution created by God.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 04:51 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by jen:
So, what about non-Christian people? Do you discount the legitimacy of their marriage and/or religion?

(Not snarky, seriously asking...)
Do I? No.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 04:54 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by Live and Learn:
Due to the supreme court hearing a case on the rights of gays and lesbians to marry, our local news stations have been interviewing a lot of local residents on both sides of the issue.

They keep interviewing this one Christian woman who is whole heatedly against equal rights for LGBT. Her main complaint is that marriage is made for a man and a woman to conceive childen to serve her god.

Whenever I hear this I always think about the couples who were married for years and did not have kids whether by choice or infertility. Are the marriages failures in her eyes? Are they failures in her god's eyes? Is their marriage somehow just a civil union because they don't have kids? What if you get married in a church and don't have kids? What if you don't get married in a church and have lots of kids? Which marriage is more legitimate in her eyes or her god's eyes I wonder? What about hetero couples who get married in a church and never have biological children together. Let's say they adopt instead. Is their marriage not legit because they didn't procreate?

On a side note....my next door neighbor (whose house is decorated in crosses, has Jesus bumper stickers, wears all sorts of cross necklaces, earrings, sweatshirts, and sends the most over the top religious holiday cards) has been married in a church twice and now divorced twice. Somehow her failed marriages are legit and my single marriage of 26 years isn't because my wedding wasn't in a church? That is crazy talk to me.

I say let any two adults who love each other marry.
Actually, unless she was cheated on during her FIRST marriage and then choose to remarry ... her second marriage was not legit (...unless she asked for forgiveness of her sin for divorcing). Many second marriages are not "legit."
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EntropyControlSpecialist 04:56 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
Exactly this but with the difference I don't think they should adopt. I think that deliberately denying a child of a mom/dad figure is not fare.

I am a Christian and I believe that only Christians should follow God's commandments so, there is no way I can tell an Atheist to live according to God's principles because is not going to happen, so same way with Gay couples.

I hear and read a lot ( not only here ) about State/Church separation, but for me is more than that, is also a matter of respect. Some say that the case of the gay couple that could not get married in the place they wanted in NJ is valid because it was not a Church or a official religious building. That is where the respect part comes from, OK, let's say is not officially a religious building but it is in religious grounds, the Church people are telling you that is against their beliefs to rent that to you and that it will be a great conflict with their faith because the building IT IS used for religious ceremonies. Why can't you respect that? Why sue the church? Isn't that doing what you claim Christians do all the time?
I believe they should have the freedom to be with whoever they want, have a civil union completely separated from what is a religious marriage and that the pastors/priests can have the choice to refuse to marry w/out consequences.
I, as an adoptive Mom, have zero problems with people in the gay and lesbian community adopting. God never said to prevent someone who sins from raising children. Otherwise, we'd all be in trouble.

I agree with your last sentence.
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AnneCordelia 06:20 PM 03-30-2013
I am proud to live in Canada where gay marriage is already celebrated and legal! DH and I married at Toronto City Hall and the couple before us and the couple after us were gay and came to Canada from NY to have a marriage that was recognised somewhere. 10 years it's been legal here now.

My husband and I are non-religious, and consider ourselves atheist. We still value and treasure our marriage, and would not be willing to give up that name. Marriage has been a civil union for thousands of years, and not just a religious one. Seperate is not equal.
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CedarCreek 07:29 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
Exactly this but with the difference I don't think they should adopt. I think that deliberately denying a child of a mom/dad figure is not fare.
uh...so you don't think that single parents should be allowed children either? They don't have both figures.
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youretooloud 08:30 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
Actually, unless she was cheated on during her FIRST marriage and then choose to remarry ... her second marriage was not legit (...unless she asked for forgiveness of her sin for divorcing). Many second marriages are not "legit."
The guy next door (the overweight one with too much body hair that I was complaining about recently) told me that he was married in a catholic church, and when he divorced, he was no longer allowed to be married in a Catholic church again. So, his second marriage is not recognized in his church because he and his first wife divorced. If he had been widowed, they would have married him in his church the second time.

I don't know anything about the Catholic church though.. I just thought that was interesting, that he's LEGALLY married now, but not in the eyes of the church.
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craftymissbeth 08:50 PM 03-30-2013
I guess I just don't see how religion (for lack of a better word) can own the term marriage.

My husband and I were married in his sister's house by a retired judge. We are married. No if's, and's, or but's about it. End of story.. we are MARRIED. By law, we are MARRIED. Married, married, married... whew, had a small breakdown there

But I did find in the Oxford Dictionary that marriage is defined as the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife. I do realize that this technical definition only says a man and woman, but there is no mention of religion. I suppose my biggest complaint is the claim on the word marriage by those who are religious.

I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm a generally open-minded sister, but I just don't get it. Perhaps someone could point out a bible passage that says something to the effect of "and God created marriage and this is how it's defined"? Although, even if the bible says this, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'll believe it... it will just help me understand a bit better.
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Lyss 09:06 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
Exactly this but with the difference I don't think they should adopt. I think that deliberately denying a child of a mom/dad figure is not fare.
This opened a whole other can of worms in my head when I read it ...BUT I'm not gonna go there

If they can provide (I don't just mean money, but love, stability, security) for the child I see no problem with adoption by the LGBT community. We have far to many children in the foster system who need and want love.
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MissSarah 09:06 PM 03-30-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I am socially liberal, so gay marriage is no big deal to me, and I think they should have legal rights (and pay the dang marriage penalty taxes!) BUT I also think that churches should be able to decide if they will/will not allow gay couples to be married in their church without fear of reprisal/discrimination charges, etc. kwim?


The only problem I have with the gay pride parades is that a lot of times there is a LOT of near nudity going on. But that is because I am a very modest person and I don't want to see that much skin out in public with anyone - doesn't matter if they are gay OR straight... It just seems to be very prevalent with the pride parades.
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bluemoose_mom 09:38 PM 03-30-2013
I'm with Blackcat...but don't really have much passion for this topic.

I do think it needs to be a federal definition, it being left up to the states is just confusing.

As for adoption...as someone who is adopted...it's love that is needed. I didn't receive that (from a prominent pastor). From hetro, single, gay, lesbian, older, or younger person.

To the person above me, asking where the bible defines marriage, does this quote answer your question?

Matthew 19:3-8

3) Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”4)“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5) and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6)So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”7)“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”8)Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9)I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
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AnneCordelia 04:34 AM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I guess I just don't see how religion (for lack of a better word) can own the term marriage.

My husband and I were married in his sister's house by a retired judge. We are married. No if's, and's, or but's about it. End of story.. we are MARRIED. By law, we are MARRIED. Married, married, married... whew, had a small breakdown there

But I did find in the Oxford Dictionary that marriage is defined as the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife. I do realize that this technical definition only says a man and woman, but there is no mention of religion. I suppose my biggest complaint is the claim on the word marriage by those who are religious.

I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm a generally open-minded sister, but I just don't get it. Perhaps someone could point out a bible passage that says something to the effect of "and God created marriage and this is how it's defined"? Although, even if the bible says this, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'll believe it... it will just help me understand a bit better.
It gives me a bit of conniption fit too, as a happily MARRIED atheist.

Besides if we are talking biblical definitions of marriage, it often includes more than one wife, women treated as property, legal concubines and other factors that religious women today would likely refuse.
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AnneCordelia 05:08 AM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by :

Matthew 19:3-8

3) Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”4)“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5) and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6)So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”7)“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”8)Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9)I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
All Jesus does in this scripture is quote Genesis 2:24. Interestingly enough only 44 verses later, in Genesis, God condones a polygamy marriage, which is most certainly not between just one man and one woman.

I think that many laypeople misinterpreted the verses or meaning behind them to support their agenda. Two shall be one could simply be referring to consummation of a marriage. Its so hard to tell because the NIV is quite drastically different from the KJV. And the KJV is different still from the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek that the bible was written in.
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bunnyslippers 06:29 AM 03-31-2013
I am a musical performer, and as a result, have many gay friends. I do not understand why love between anyone is illegal. Get over it. We are all people, and we have the right to choose who we love.
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originalkat 07:28 AM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
This is exactly how I feel. I have had a lesbian couple in my daycare in the past. They were an awesome family!
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bluemoose_mom 08:51 AM 03-31-2013
What verse are you referring to when God condones a polygamy marriage?

I quoted this verse over the Genesis one because it talks about divorce and remarrying (which was talked about earlier).

As a believer, I choose to believe that the message has been preserved by God. People can misinterpret the scriptures, sure but that doesn't mean that the original message isn't there or that we're not talking about the original message right now.

However, I *believe* that and am not offended by people who don't as long as they don't shove it down my throat (not saying you particularly) just like I don't shove it down other people's throat. I only brought scripture into this discussion because someone asked. I do believe that scripture should not be brought into a discussion like this because people who don't believe, it means nothing. I might as well be reading from the phone book--which is fine.

I am torn over this being a separation between church and state. My husband (who is a believer as well) thinks Gay marriage should be allowed (as determined by the states, not federal), with no distinction between hetro or gay. I don't have much wrong with this thought...because I am torn (other than I think it needs to be defined by federal, to cause less confusion.
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Candy 11:13 AM 03-31-2013
Not sure who asked to many post. But no the church was not always involved in marriage. I don't exactly remember why or what happened(i have been out of highschool to long) but the catholic church started to get involved in marriages in england. Im guessing it was like the 1400's or something. So marriage was not always a religious thing.
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momofboys 01:14 PM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
ITA with^
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jen 03:44 PM 03-31-2013
In the Bible, we read “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18).

Now, none of us (at least I hope) think it is OK to have slaves. We have grown as a society and have been able to set aside passages in the Bible when they were in conflict with today's values and understanding of right and wrong. If this were not true, women would not be allowed speak in church, people would still have slaves, and women would have to hide in a cave for 7 days after giving birth, etc.

So, herein lies my confusion. I have never heard anyone say that they are going to go get themselves a slave because the Bible said its OK. Yet, everyday we hear people express the belief that others should be denied their constitutional rights (pursuit of life, liberty, and freedom) based on a Bible verse.

#stillnotgettingit
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CedarCreek 04:19 PM 03-31-2013
^^word.
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jokalima 05:10 PM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by CedarCreek:
uh...so you don't think that single parents should be allowed children either? They don't have both figures.
I said deliberately , a single parent that had no choice or voice is another story, but for someone to choose if a child will or will not have a mom/dad, for me that is not fair.
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Lucy 05:19 PM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:

For others who choose to "marry" outside the sanctuary of a church without the religious meaning....then yes, if you want to get technical, I personally would consider that a civil union or legal commitment.
My husband and I got hitched at the City Council office by a county judge. Are we married?
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nannyde 05:29 PM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
I said deliberately , a single parent that had no choice or voice is another story, but for someone to choose if a child will or will not have a mom/dad, for me that is not fair.
I'm a single adaptive mom. My son is 12 and his birth parents chose me over potential adoptive parents who were married.

He's a great kid and is well behaved. He's sweet and fair. He's a good friend. He's also doing very very well in school.

The vast majority of kids he hangs out with are being raised by single parents.

We need to stop the mindset that it's some sort of disability to be a single parent or be the child of a single parent. It's very common now and is a HUGE part of the scheme of today's modern family. We need to stop the deferential treatment of single parenting as well as the prejudice.

The mindset you speak of is exactly what many single parents are banking on to get a whole lot of special. If you are tired of paying for it then consider what unintended consequences come from your pity.
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Lyss 07:00 PM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
We need to stop the mindset that it's some sort of disability to be a single parent or be the child of a single parent. It's very common now and is a HUGE part of the scheme of today's modern family. We need to stop the deferential treatment of single parenting as well as the prejudice.

The mindset you speak of is exactly what many single parents are banking on to get a whole lot of special. If you are tired of paying for it then consider what unintended consequences come from your pity.
With a divorce rate like we have (in the US anyway, I'm not sure what other countries are like) I think we really need to learn to move on from the single parent stigma
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Candy 08:12 PM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
I said deliberately , a single parent that had no choice or voice is another story, but for someone to choose if a child will or will not have a mom/dad, for me that is not fair.
Not understanding what you are saying. How is that not fair?
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CedarCreek 08:41 PM 03-31-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
I said deliberately , a single parent that had no choice or voice is another story, but for someone to choose if a child will or will not have a mom/dad, for me that is not fair.
That's assuming that you know every single parents story. And you don't. Obviously you did not intend to insult single parents but I would hope that you can see the similarity in having one mother or father figure in either situation and how you cannot have any idea if raising a child in that way could be detrimental. I can only assume that is what you mean by "unfair".

I respect that you have an opinion but I do not understand it.
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Michelle 09:05 PM 03-31-2013
OK I will jump in
first I totally agree with Black cat.
Also speaking from a child's emotional well being...
( mainly a gay couple's child)

Little Johnny is in school and the teacher says:
"O.K. kids now everyone needs to take this permission slip home and have your mom or dad sign it for the field trip tomorrow"

Suzy says.." Johnny doesn't have a mommy... he has 2 daddy's"

Everyone: "ewwwwww! "
Johnny goes home crying and parents call Gloria Allred and sues the school, parents, and state for child's mental distress..
( I know I am exaggerating but I think that's where we are headed)
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MNMommy2 11:00 PM 03-31-2013
My sister is a lesbian who has had a partner for 11 years and has been afraid to tell anyone. I finally found out 2 years ago, my other siblings a year ago. My parents still don't know. It breaks my heart. It is not fair--they want to be a family and have every right to.

It makes my heart so happy to hear so many people supporting gay marriage. I honestly don't see how it affects anybody but those involved.

And, oh my, why shouldn't gay couples have kids/adopt. I have seen plenty of s#!&&y parents who are mom/dad and how do those kids fare? My sister and her girlfriend are wonderful people who deserve a family.
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julie 12:55 AM 04-01-2013
I am a Christian, and I wholeheartedly believe gay people should be allowed to marry if they choose.

First of all, I don't think being gay is a choice. I think you are born that way. I don't understand how anyone could think that it would be a "choice" to be persecuted in the way that gays are. I have also had several friends that were Christian and gay and hated themselves so much because people told them it was a choice to be gay. But they were born that way, and couldn't change it if they tried. It is a part of themselves from birth, like a skin color, like a gender. And therefore, I believe God created gays in His infinite wisdom. And to Him, they are perfect, though not without sin, and created in His image just like any one of us.

If we are going for scripture, here's one that I base MY faith on:
Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


The Bible, while a very important and meaningful work, is also largely a social and historical commentary on the time it was written, in my opinion. In the time it was written, polygamy was not looked down upon, owning slaves was common, etc. Now men CAN touch the skin of a pig with their bare hands and do so at every football game. The verses and ideas evolve. That's how we get from a theme of "eye for an eye" in the Old Testament to "The golden rule" in the New Testament. We are still evolving. The times are still changing.

The verse above means something to me because it transcends time. I can make it applicable to almost every circumstance and my conscience will tell me the right path. Here, I'll do it for you now. It is easy for me to love the Lord with all my soul and heart and mind. This includes for me everything that He has made, which would therefore include gay people. Second, I will love my neighbor as myself. If my neighbor was a gay person, I would still want them to have everything in life that I have been blessed with. That would include a loving MARRIAGE, children, pets, a home, a full and fantastic life. I would not tell them they could have all of those things, as long as they named their union something lesser than my own. That is condescending. I would not want someone to be condescending to me, so I will not love my neighbor by treating him this way. Therefore, if I want marriage for myself, I want marriage for my neighbor, including if my neighbor is gay. This is how I interpret the scripture.

In my opinion, anyone willing to make the choice to make vows with their spouse and a commitment for life deserves the right to be married and call it marriage.
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CedarCreek 04:06 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by Michelle:
OK I will jump in
first I totally agree with Black cat.
Also speaking from a child's emotional well being...
( mainly a gay couple's child)

Little Johnny is in school and the teacher says:
"O.K. kids now everyone needs to take this permission slip home and have your mom or dad sign it for the field trip tomorrow"

Suzy says.." Johnny doesn't have a mommy... he has 2 daddy's"

Everyone: "ewwwwww! "
Johnny goes home crying and parents call Gloria Allred and sues the school, parents, and state for child's mental distress..
( I know I am exaggerating but I think that's where we are headed)
1. That shouldn't even be an issue for children to say "ew" about.

2. What you're talking about is bullying and I hear it's not tolerated in schools nowadays.

Every kid has to deal with being picked on for something in their life. Can you think of nothing that your own children will be bullied for? I would assume that you would be upset too over it.
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just_peachy 05:20 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by julie:
I am a Christian, and I wholeheartedly believe gay people should be allowed to marry if they choose.

First of all, I don't think being gay is a choice. I think you are born that way. I don't understand how anyone could think that it would be a "choice" to be persecuted in the way that gays are. I have also had several friends that were Christian and gay and hated themselves so much because people told them it was a choice to be gay. But they were born that way, and couldn't change it if they tried. It is a part of themselves from birth, like a skin color, like a gender. And therefore, I believe God created gays in His infinite wisdom. And to Him, they are perfect, though not without sin, and created in His image just like any one of us.

If we are going for scripture, here's one that I base MY faith on:
Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


The Bible, while a very important and meaningful work, is also largely a social and historical commentary on the time it was written, in my opinion. In the time it was written, polygamy was not looked down upon, owning slaves was common, etc. Now men CAN touch the skin of a pig with their bare hands and do so at every football game. The verses and ideas evolve. That's how we get from a theme of "eye for an eye" in the Old Testament to "The golden rule" in the New Testament. We are still evolving. The times are still changing.

The verse above means something to me because it transcends time. I can make it applicable to almost every circumstance and my conscience will tell me the right path. Here, I'll do it for you now. It is easy for me to love the Lord with all my soul and heart and mind. This includes for me everything that He has made, which would therefore include gay people. Second, I will love my neighbor as myself. If my neighbor was a gay person, I would still want them to have everything in life that I have been blessed with. That would include a loving MARRIAGE, children, pets, a home, a full and fantastic life. I would not tell them they could have all of those things, as long as they named their union something lesser than my own. That is condescending. I would not want someone to be condescending to me, so I will not love my neighbor by treating him this way. Therefore, if I want marriage for myself, I want marriage for my neighbor, including if my neighbor is gay. This is how I interpret the scripture.

In my opinion, anyone willing to make the choice to make vows with their spouse and a commitment for life deserves the right to be married and call it marriage.
In a nutshell, right there.
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jokalima 06:10 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm a single adaptive mom. My son is 12 and his birth parents chose me over potential adoptive parents who were married.

He's a great kid and is well behaved. He's sweet and fair. He's a good friend. He's also doing very very well in school.

The vast majority of kids he hangs out with are being raised by single parents.

We need to stop the mindset that it's some sort of disability to be a single parent or be the child of a single parent. It's very common now and is a HUGE part of the scheme of today's modern family. We need to stop the deferential treatment of single parenting as well as the prejudice.

The mindset you speak of is exactly what many single parents are banking on to get a whole lot of special. If you are tired of paying for it then consider what unintended consequences come from your pity.
I don't question your parenting at all, If you say you are a good mother I take your word for it. But a question was asked and I answered what I think about the topic, and it is OK for me to have my own personal beliefs about something. I respect your family but I don't think is the Ideal, I was raised by 2 parents male and female, and I think that is the natural way of things. What I mean of not being fair, is that if someone is taking that away from a child because his own desire to be a parent, that for me is not fair to the child. I know there are a lot of single moms and dads out there and some do a better job than 2 parents together, but it is not the ideal situation, for me personally and my personal belief won't change the world so no one should worry about it
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CedarCreek 06:14 AM 04-01-2013
I don't think anyone is worried that your opinion is going to change any laws.

We are responding to each other in an online forum made for discussion.
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jokalima 06:18 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by CedarCreek:
That's assuming that you know every single parents story. And you don't. Obviously you did not intend to insult single parents but I would hope that you can see the similarity in having one mother or father figure in either situation and how you cannot have any idea if raising a child in that way could be detrimental. I can only assume that is what you mean by "unfair".

I respect that you have an opinion but I do not understand it.
And you don't need to understand it or agree with it And trust that when I say something is not with the intention of insulting someone, is just expressing my own opinion.
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jokalima 06:18 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by CedarCreek:
I don't think anyone is worried that your opinion is going to change any laws.

We are responding to each other in an online forum made for discussion.
Agree 100%
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Blackcat31 06:20 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
My husband and I got hitched at the City Council office by a county judge. Are we married?
In the legal sense? Yes, I would consider you married.

In the religious sense? No, I do not believe that a marriage performed outside the sanctity of a church or under the rules of the church is recognized in the eyes of God.

If you don't believe in God, then that fact should not make one bit of difference to you.

*This is not meant rudely or harshly towards you personally, just backing up my personal beliefs which I am FULLY aware do not align with everyone.

Just as I believe that people who do not "believe" will not go to heaven.
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JenNJ 07:30 AM 04-01-2013
My husband and I were married by a justice of the peace. We are legally married. We have a marriage certificate. But we are not married in the religious sense.

I think ALL couples should have the right to marry legally. If they choose to be married in the religious sense, they would need to seek out a religious organization who does that. I think legally, all couples should have the choice. I think religiously, it is up to that particular organization.

Marriage is not a Christians only club. different religious organizations all over the earth use the word marriage. It is the word our government uses to define the joining of two people as a family. If the argument is TRULY about the word, than this is a fight that was lost a very long time ago. I had no one picketing my wedding or standing up for marriage as a religious term that day.
Reply
JenNJ 07:36 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by julie:
I am a Christian, and I wholeheartedly believe gay people should be allowed to marry if they choose.

First of all, I don't think being gay is a choice. I think you are born that way. I don't understand how anyone could think that it would be a "choice" to be persecuted in the way that gays are. I have also had several friends that were Christian and gay and hated themselves so much because people told them it was a choice to be gay. But they were born that way, and couldn't change it if they tried. It is a part of themselves from birth, like a skin color, like a gender. And therefore, I believe God created gays in His infinite wisdom. And to Him, they are perfect, though not without sin, and created in His image just like any one of us.

If we are going for scripture, here's one that I base MY faith on:
Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


The Bible, while a very important and meaningful work, is also largely a social and historical commentary on the time it was written, in my opinion. In the time it was written, polygamy was not looked down upon, owning slaves was common, etc. Now men CAN touch the skin of a pig with their bare hands and do so at every football game. The verses and ideas evolve. That's how we get from a theme of "eye for an eye" in the Old Testament to "The golden rule" in the New Testament. We are still evolving. The times are still changing.

The verse above means something to me because it transcends time. I can make it applicable to almost every circumstance and my conscience will tell me the right path. Here, I'll do it for you now. It is easy for me to love the Lord with all my soul and heart and mind. This includes for me everything that He has made, which would therefore include gay people. Second, I will love my neighbor as myself. If my neighbor was a gay person, I would still want them to have everything in life that I have been blessed with. That would include a loving MARRIAGE, children, pets, a home, a full and fantastic life. I would not tell them they could have all of those things, as long as they named their union something lesser than my own. That is condescending. I would not want someone to be condescending to me, so I will not love my neighbor by treating him this way. Therefore, if I want marriage for myself, I want marriage for my neighbor, including if my neighbor is gay. This is how I interpret the scripture.

In my opinion, anyone willing to make the choice to make vows with their spouse and a commitment for life deserves the right to be married and call it marriage.


This is such a beautiful post it honestly made my eyes tear up.
Reply
nanglgrl 07:37 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
My husband and I were married by a justice of the peace. We are legally married. We have a marriage certificate. But we are not married in the religious sense.

I think ALL couples should have the right to marry legally. If they choose to be married in the religious sense, they would need to seek out a religious organization who does that. I think legally, all couples should have the choice. I think religiously, it is up to that particular organization.

Marriage is not a Christians only club. different religious organizations all over the earth use the word marriage. It is the word our government uses to define the joining of two people as a family. If the argument is TRULY about the word, than this is a fight that was lost a very long time ago. I had no one picketing my wedding or standing up for marriage as a religious term that day.
I agree.
Reply
ABCDaycareMN 07:41 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.
I thought I was the only one who thinks that the term marriage is between a man and a woman. If they want to change the term to legally united/joined I wouldn't care at all. I do believe they should receive the same bennifets as married man/women do I just believe "marriage" is a man and woman.
Reply
GoodKarma 07:52 AM 04-01-2013
I don't want anyone telling me what I can or can't do, so I won't tell someone else what they should be doing either.
Reply
jokalima 08:33 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by ABCDaycareMN:
I thought I was the only one who thinks that the term marriage is between a man and a woman. If they want to change the term to legally united/joined I wouldn't care at all. I do believe they should receive the same bennifets as married man/women do I just believe "marriage" is a man and woman.
Agree 100%

but I am curious about the results of the poll, there are more votes against than comments, but lots of comments in favor as well as votes in favor. The people voting against don't want to talk about it?
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Blackcat31 08:35 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
Agree 100%

but I am curious about the results of the poll, there are more votes against than comments, but lots of comments in favor as well as votes in favor. The people voting against don't want to talk about it?
That is usually the case when someone opposes something that is no longer viewed "socially unacceptable".

It is often hard to go against the grain and stand up for something you believe in when you are in the minority.

No one wants to be the only one....kwim?
Reply
jokalima 09:27 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
That is usually the case when someone opposes something that is no longer viewed "socially unacceptable".

It is often hard to go against the grain and stand up for something you believe in when you are in the minority.

No one wants to be the only one....kwim?
Yeap and it bugs me a lot! This week when everyone was updating their FBK profile picture to the = Someone that I know changed her profile picture to an = with an x over it. Ok, I know it seem like an invite for controversy, but she was clear and posted that she was not trying to offend no one just expressing her point of view. Well, oh well People were furious and they bashed against her w/out mercy LOL That made me mad, so I entered the conversation and ended up in very heated debate. My point only in the debate was that all people should be able to express themselves. When people posted the = sign she did not went to their pages to drag them down or insult them, she respected that post and picture and everyone should do the same even when the mindset seems archaic. She was not telling no one not to be gay, not to deny their rights, she was just expressing her point of view. Sadly today people are still upset about that post and the reason I tell you about it is because I think people are afraid to express themselves, they fear what others will think or to be the outcast and what are we doing? just giving up our own right to express freely?
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itlw8 09:56 AM 04-01-2013
as usually I believe in the middle. I think EVERYONE should be able to have a legal union and all the rights but I still think marriage is a union between man and woman in front of God. So nothing in your poll fit my beliefs.

so yes if someone does not believe in a higher being I struggle is it marriage or a legal union. what is a word?just a word. so yes they should be able to commit for a lifetime like everyone else things continue to change how is one group right and can tell the rest what to do.
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My3cents 10:51 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by Michelle:
OK I will jump in
first I totally agree with Black cat.
Also speaking from a child's emotional well being...
( mainly a gay couple's child)

Little Johnny is in school and the teacher says:
"O.K. kids now everyone needs to take this permission slip home and have your mom or dad sign it for the field trip tomorrow"

Suzy says.." Johnny doesn't have a mommy... he has 2 daddy's"

Everyone: "ewwwwww! "
Johnny goes home crying and parents call Gloria Allred and sues the school, parents, and state for child's mental distress..
( I know I am exaggerating but I think that's where we are headed)
the suing mentality has to go-

The teacher speak up and says how lucky is Johnny to have two fathers that love him dearly- Families are all different these days.

There is good and bad people of all sorts- Pushy people of all sorts- Like people because they are likable, and not for what they believe in or choose to to sleep with. Simple concepts. This topic is old- it is discrimination at its finest. Discriminate against truly evil, cruel people and let others live and not judge. Educate your family and your friends and take a stance to better our world not tare it down with hate- If two people love each other let them alone and let them have the same rights as all of us. I go somewhere I don't want to see anyone all over someone else, save it for your bedroom. To see two people hold hands or be kind to one another .......what bother is it to me?

If one of my kids told me they were gay I would love them anyway. I hope that I have made that topic open enough so that they never have to hide and be anything but themselves with me or suffer inner turmoil.

We have more to worry about then this garbage in today's world. Really time to get over this and move on to more important issues.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 10:52 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
That is usually the case when someone opposes something that is no longer viewed "socially unacceptable".

It is often hard to go against the grain and stand up for something you believe in when you are in the minority.

No one wants to be the only one....kwim?
Especially with this "hot topic" right now.
Reply
My3cents 10:54 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by julie:
I am a Christian, and I wholeheartedly believe gay people should be allowed to marry if they choose.

First of all, I don't think being gay is a choice. I think you are born that way. I don't understand how anyone could think that it would be a "choice" to be persecuted in the way that gays are. I have also had several friends that were Christian and gay and hated themselves so much because people told them it was a choice to be gay. But they were born that way, and couldn't change it if they tried. It is a part of themselves from birth, like a skin color, like a gender. And therefore, I believe God created gays in His infinite wisdom. And to Him, they are perfect, though not without sin, and created in His image just like any one of us.

If we are going for scripture, here's one that I base MY faith on:
Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


The Bible, while a very important and meaningful work, is also largely a social and historical commentary on the time it was written, in my opinion. In the time it was written, polygamy was not looked down upon, owning slaves was common, etc. Now men CAN touch the skin of a pig with their bare hands and do so at every football game. The verses and ideas evolve. That's how we get from a theme of "eye for an eye" in the Old Testament to "The golden rule" in the New Testament. We are still evolving. The times are still changing.

The verse above means something to me because it transcends time. I can make it applicable to almost every circumstance and my conscience will tell me the right path. Here, I'll do it for you now. It is easy for me to love the Lord with all my soul and heart and mind. This includes for me everything that He has made, which would therefore include gay people. Second, I will love my neighbor as myself. If my neighbor was a gay person, I would still want them to have everything in life that I have been blessed with. That would include a loving MARRIAGE, children, pets, a home, a full and fantastic life. I would not tell them they could have all of those things, as long as they named their union something lesser than my own. That is condescending. I would not want someone to be condescending to me, so I will not love my neighbor by treating him this way. Therefore, if I want marriage for myself, I want marriage for my neighbor, including if my neighbor is gay. This is how I interpret the scripture.

In my opinion, anyone willing to make the choice to make vows with their spouse and a commitment for life deserves the right to be married and call it marriage.

Reply
My3cents 10:55 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by julie:
I am a Christian, and I wholeheartedly believe gay people should be allowed to marry if they choose.

First of all, I don't think being gay is a choice. I think you are born that way. I don't understand how anyone could think that it would be a "choice" to be persecuted in the way that gays are. I have also had several friends that were Christian and gay and hated themselves so much because people told them it was a choice to be gay. But they were born that way, and couldn't change it if they tried. It is a part of themselves from birth, like a skin color, like a gender. And therefore, I believe God created gays in His infinite wisdom. And to Him, they are perfect, though not without sin, and created in His image just like any one of us.

If we are going for scripture, here's one that I base MY faith on:
Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


The Bible, while a very important and meaningful work, is also largely a social and historical commentary on the time it was written, in my opinion. In the time it was written, polygamy was not looked down upon, owning slaves was common, etc. Now men CAN touch the skin of a pig with their bare hands and do so at every football game. The verses and ideas evolve. That's how we get from a theme of "eye for an eye" in the Old Testament to "The golden rule" in the New Testament. We are still evolving. The times are still changing.

The verse above means something to me because it transcends time. I can make it applicable to almost every circumstance and my conscience will tell me the right path. Here, I'll do it for you now. It is easy for me to love the Lord with all my soul and heart and mind. This includes for me everything that He has made, which would therefore include gay people. Second, I will love my neighbor as myself. If my neighbor was a gay person, I would still want them to have everything in life that I have been blessed with. That would include a loving MARRIAGE, children, pets, a home, a full and fantastic life. I would not tell them they could have all of those things, as long as they named their union something lesser than my own. That is condescending. I would not want someone to be condescending to me, so I will not love my neighbor by treating him this way. Therefore, if I want marriage for myself, I want marriage for my neighbor, including if my neighbor is gay. This is how I interpret the scripture.

In my opinion, anyone willing to make the choice to make vows with their spouse and a commitment for life deserves the right to be married and call it marriage.

Reply
My3cents 11:01 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
I don't question your parenting at all, If you say you are a good mother I take your word for it. But a question was asked and I answered what I think about the topic, and it is OK for me to have my own personal beliefs about something. I respect your family but I don't think is the Ideal, I was raised by 2 parents male and female, and I think that is the natural way of things. What I mean of not being fair, is that if someone is taking that away from a child because his own desire to be a parent, that for me is not fair to the child. I know there are a lot of single moms and dads out there and some do a better job than 2 parents together, but it is not the ideal situation, for me personally and my personal belief won't change the world so no one should worry about it
Ideal--- translates to perfect for me. None of us are perfect.

To a child that is being raised by two loving adults, that family is ideal to that child.

Your right your personal belief won't change the world for the better if your stuck in that mind set. I do worry about that, because it is not fair to loving couples that just want to live their lives.
Reply
My3cents 11:09 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
My husband and I were married by a justice of the peace. We are legally married. We have a marriage certificate. But we are not married in the religious sense.

I think ALL couples should have the right to marry legally. If they choose to be married in the religious sense, they would need to seek out a religious organization who does that. I think legally, all couples should have the choice. I think religiously, it is up to that particular organization.

Marriage is not a Christians only club. different religious organizations all over the earth use the word marriage. It is the word our government uses to define the joining of two people as a family. If the argument is TRULY about the word, than this is a fight that was lost a very long time ago. I had no one picketing my wedding or standing up for marriage as a religious term that day.
nah smah If God was included in your ceremony then I feel your marriage was a legal marriage and one of religion. I don't believe that because someone is not married in a church that they don't have a religious marriage. Religion is personal and comes in many forms other then Catholic Faith.
Reply
My3cents 11:10 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by JenNJ:


This is such a beautiful post it honestly made my eyes tear up.

Reply
AnneCordelia 11:16 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by jokalima:
Yeap and it bugs me a lot! This week when everyone was updating their FBK profile picture to the = Someone that I know changed her profile picture to an = with an x over it. Ok, I know it seem like an invite for controversy, but she was clear and posted that she was not trying to offend no one just expressing her point of view. Well, oh well People were furious and they bashed against her w/out mercy LOL That made me mad, so I entered the conversation and ended up in very heated debate. My point only in the debate was that all people should be able to express themselves. When people posted the = sign she did not went to their pages to drag them down or insult them, she respected that post and picture and everyone should do the same even when the mindset seems archaic. She was not telling no one not to be gay, not to deny their rights, she was just expressing her point of view. Sadly today people are still upset about that post and the reason I tell you about it is because I think people are afraid to express themselves, they fear what others will think or to be the outcast and what are we doing? just giving up our own right to express freely?
I will tell you why I think they jumped on her pic. People were using the Human Rights Campaigns photo as a profile picture to encourage and support the SCOTUS into *changing law* in favour of equal rights for marriage. When a person puts a negative spoof of the pic up it appears as though they are in favour of *laws* that keep marriage exclusive and deny the equal right to marriage. It is all about her timing.

It is OK to think marriage is between a man and a woman. It is OK to believe that. What is not OK is to legislate your personal beliefs in a way that infringes on another's personal rights. Putting up the profile pic she did, I believe, implies she is in favour of legalling infringing on rights. Similar to a meme I saw that illustrated a Jewish man captioned "Doesnt believe in eating pork. Doesnt try to make pork illegal."
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craftymissbeth 11:17 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by My3cents:
nah smah If God was included in your ceremony then I feel your marriage was a legal marriage and one of religion. I don't believe that because someone is not married in a church that they don't have a religious marriage. Religion is personal and comes in many forms other then Catholic Faith.
I totally agree. We were married in my SIL's house by a retired judge but you'd better believe that God was there that day. For my family, our religion is deeply personal. We are Christian, but do not belong to a church... but God is an enormous part of our life. I guess that's why I have such a huge problem with saying that if a couple is married outside of a church they aren't actually married.
Reply
Heidi 11:21 AM 04-01-2013
Originally Posted by julie:
I am a Christian, and I wholeheartedly believe gay people should be allowed to marry if they choose.

First of all, I don't think being gay is a choice. I think you are born that way. I don't understand how anyone could think that it would be a "choice" to be persecuted in the way that gays are. I have also had several friends that were Christian and gay and hated themselves so much because people told them it was a choice to be gay. But they were born that way, and couldn't change it if they tried. It is a part of themselves from birth, like a skin color, like a gender. And therefore, I believe God created gays in His infinite wisdom. And to Him, they are perfect, though not without sin, and created in His image just like any one of us.

If we are going for scripture, here's one that I base MY faith on:
Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


The Bible, while a very important and meaningful work, is also largely a social and historical commentary on the time it was written, in my opinion. In the time it was written, polygamy was not looked down upon, owning slaves was common, etc. Now men CAN touch the skin of a pig with their bare hands and do so at every football game. The verses and ideas evolve. That's how we get from a theme of "eye for an eye" in the Old Testament to "The golden rule" in the New Testament. We are still evolving. The times are still changing.

The verse above means something to me because it transcends time. I can make it applicable to almost every circumstance and my conscience will tell me the right path. Here, I'll do it for you now. It is easy for me to love the Lord with all my soul and heart and mind. This includes for me everything that He has made, which would therefore include gay people. Second, I will love my neighbor as myself. If my neighbor was a gay person, I would still want them to have everything in life that I have been blessed with. That would include a loving MARRIAGE, children, pets, a home, a full and fantastic life. I would not tell them they could have all of those things, as long as they named their union something lesser than my own. That is condescending. I would not want someone to be condescending to me, so I will not love my neighbor by treating him this way. Therefore, if I want marriage for myself, I want marriage for my neighbor, including if my neighbor is gay. This is how I interpret the scripture.

In my opinion, anyone willing to make the choice to make vows with their spouse and a commitment for life deserves the right to be married and call it marriage.
Oh thankyou! That was so well said!
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