so I have a dcf with 2 kids. they have been with me for about 2.5 years. the older one is going off to kinder and will be staying with us. I allow children that are in kinder who have attended my program and display good behavior to stay their first year of formal schooling, after that they have to move on.

Well our kinder this year will be all day kinder from 735 to 2:05 m-f

these two dck never get enough sleep and over the years are always sick because of it. I have posted about them before. well about 2 weeks ago I told the dcp that we need to stop napping their kinder so that they will be school ready. this child is a HUGE sleeper. always first one out and last one to get up. I have to wake up daily.

Well the kid is passing out during quite time at the art table because the parents are still putting the child to bed at 930-10pm. Despite me telling them that the child is really struggling to stay awake and it would be a good idea to put the child to bed earlier so that they can make it through the day. DCKS hours are 745 to 515 m-f here at my house.

Today dck tells me my mom is mad at you because you are trying to tell me when I have to go to bed and my mom said we don't have to listen to you because your not my mom. OK true, but I am only trying to help prepare DCK for school. This child is VERY smart and I have a good reputation with this school and all kinder Teachers. I want nothing more than to keep that.. I do fear that the lack of sleep with this child will turn into blame on me that I didn't prepare the child properly, not that the child is actually tired. the parents really think that I am over stepping my boundries by sending home information about building good sleep routines so that their child can feel their best, ready to concentrate and learn.


Well at pick up today dcd asks how things went and I said well dck passed out at the lunch table coloring a pic about 130. I let them sleep for about 45 min and woke them up. DCD then says where is there art work? I tell them they didn't do it, they fell asleep like I said. (normally they have a project to work on while the others are napping and they have that to take home)

I did again send home with an article about health and sleep. I have not sent one home in over a month. So 5 min after pic up I get a phone text from DCM saying that it was not ok that the child slept here and that i am not helping getting them ready for kinder which will start in a few days.

OMG I don't know what to say. I can't do anything about what time they put their child to bed, I also can't force a child to stay awake. I want to just let it go and say nothing, let it fall under not my problem. BUT this family has been awesome up until this point and I really don't know what to say other than I agree that they should not be napping here, but I can't help the fact that the child is overly tired and is falling asleep. Is that wrong of me to say that ? Once school starts in a few days, the child will come in, have a snack and read for about 15 min before all the others wake up.

Need a come back here so that I am not getting the finger pointed at. UGH

Reply

Tell her the truth denying a child who can't stay awake sleep is considered abuse.

Reply

I didn't think to put it that way, great point. I just feel so exhausted with this situation so I feel like my head is spinning and I am out of ideas.

I will have to tell them that refusing to let a tired child sleep is a form of abuse or should I say, forcing an exhausted child to stay awake is a form of abuse? which sounds better.

Reply

I don't think you need a comeback. You either need to stick to your polices and ignore the back talk or you need to end the relationship.
I won't entertain anything a child says to me about the parent (ie: my moms mad at you, etc) if they are upset they can talk to me.

I wouldn't worry about what will happen when he goes to school, teachers usually can tell where the issue is

Reply

Reply

So what do I do when the kid comes in and passes out because they are still going too bed at that time.

If I term this family I lose two full one kids.

Reply

"So, I've been thinking about your request to try to keep kiddo up when he's dozy at art time. Do YOU have any ideas?"

Reply

Okay that gives me another idea! "When Jimmy is tired and falling asleep, I will have him call you and you can talk to him until he feels energetic again". Okay they wouldn't like that to much.

Reply

That's exactly what's going to happen..... Especially if he has to read/relax in a quiet environment!

Start calling for pick up when he falls asleep. "jimmy is too tired and cannot stay awake and cannot participate in activities due to his extreme exhaustion. I know you don't want me to nap him, so he needs to be picked up. We will try again tomorrow but i will call you for pick up again if he's unable to participate tomorrow"

maybe if they get called enough to pick him up and have to deal with him THEMSELVES, they'll get the hint that he needs to go to bed earlier. If not, I guess they'll be coming to get him at 2:30 every day!

This is THEIR problem, and if they're not willing to accept your help, stop offering. Put it back on THEM to solve.

Reply

I agree with this, to a point. You have stated best practice and they can follow it or accept the consequences. In this case, the consequence is that he is going to fall asleep in Kindergarten. This will not be your problem.

I would politely, but firmly, say that you are not allowed to force children to stay awake anymore than you would be able to force a kid to sleep. Let them know that if they have concerns about him falling asleep during the day, they should try adjusting his nighttime sleep schedule.

Reply

I would do a combo of the above.

You can't force children to stay awake. If they are concerned, suggest adjusting his nighttime sleep schedule.

If they are insistent that he not nap, then they are called for pick up once he gets sleepy.



This family

Reply

On a side note, I had a little boy a few years ago who was a BIG sleeper. I got a little nervous during the summer before K because he just would not wean from the nap and mom and I agreed he needed a rest.
I don't think he ever fell asleep in K - simply because NO one naps in K and they don't even have a "quiet" time. He did nap when he got to my house on occasion, or would be in bed early that evening.

I often think most of the things we worry about work themselves out through NO effort on our part. It's why I don't usually stress over potty training, naps, paci use, etc.

Reply

They’re already going to point the finger at you. You can’t control what they do. You’ve done everything you deemed best for the children, let it go.

My reply would be, “DCB told me today DCM is mad at me. I don’t tell them what time they should go to bed. I’m not their mother. All this is true, I agree. I do not put them down for nap in an attempt to get them ready for kindergarten. They fall asleep during art projects or quiet time. See you tomorrow!"

Reply

This is not your problem, and I am mad for you.

The kindergarten teachers will understand that this is not because of anything you have /haven't done.

All I can see here is a compromise- you're going to have to wean the child- meaning waking up after 45 minutes is totally appropriate. As pp said, you can't deny a child sleep if they really need it, so a good compromise is to take a shorter nap.

This poor child- they need to put him to sleep earlier. Guess we know who wears the pants in their household.

Reply

thanks ladies for all of your feed back.

I love this form. I tend to get myself into a place that I know what to do but I m so mad that I can't think straight and fear Ill do or say the wrong thing.

having you guys here to validate everything makes me feel better.

I didn't respond to the text, i just left it. this morning when the dck came in, I told dcd that I can't force the child to stay awake, just like I can't force them to sleep. I did tell them that this was not my issue and that I would handle the situation here by giving the parents the choice of letting the kid lay down or calling them to pick up, but those were the only two things that I could do.

DCD just gave me a look like WTH. So i told him to discuss it with DCM and let me know which option they would like for me to use.

Like someone said, put the problem back on them.

lets hope it goes well.

Reply

As in WTH are you talking about or as in WTH do you mean you won't cater to us? Either way I chuckled.

Reply

BOTH!!! yeah it was pretty funny, but i felt good standing strong and not backing down.

Like all of you said. It's not my issue and I am not going to take the blame for this one...

I did things on my turn, now its your turn...(talking about to the parents)

Reply

Exactly. You've done all YOU can do. Short of going to their house at 8:00pm each night and putting him to bed YOURSELF, you can't FORCE them to put him to bed earlier any more than you can FORCE the kid to stay awake. What they do with him at night time is THEIR choice, but you and the kiddo shouldn't have to suffer because of their choices.......

Reply

Although I think that a phone call home to have the child picked up if he can't stay awake is a little much I do think that putting it back on mom and dad is a good idea. I think a conversation with both of them over this issue is the best idea. Sending home articles and information about sleep is obviously not working so I'd stop sending those home. You've already done that and it's obvious that they are ignoring your advice and don't care what you think about what time they are going to sleep at home.

Have a meeting with them to say "I know you don't want me to nap him and I haven't been, he's falling asleep on his own in the middle of an activity. I have the impression that you are thinking that I am judging your parenting and trying to tell you how to do your job but I'm not, it isn't my place. What I am trying to say is that I want to help him transition to being kindergarten ready and because you want me to not allow him to nap I'm not napping him. What I'm having trouble with is having him stay awake later during activities. I try talking to him, waking him, keeping him active and I just can't keep him awake. He still falls asleep. So I wanted to sit down with you so that you can tell me what you expect me to do when he falls asleep because waking him and giving him something to do isn't working. Other than that what would you like me to do?"

And I wouldn't worry about the school thinking it was your fault because if they change nothing then their child is going to keep falling asleep at school too. THAT will obviously be because of the time he's falling asleep at home and the teacher will say the exact same thing to the parents that you have told them.

Actually if I were you I'd be excited that school is starting soon because then it wouldn't be up to me anymore to worry about sleeping habits once school starts. I'd keep trying to keep him awake for now and if he fell asleep then he falls asleep. I wouldn't say anything about him falling asleep to the parents unless the parents asked and if they did ask I'd just say that he kept nodding off during ____ activity and that's it. I wouldn't say anything else. If he slept for 5 minutes or 2 hours my answer would still be the same "He kept nodding off during ____ activity".

Reply

I think how you handled it was perfection! You gave the parents options.

Reply

thanks for your feed back.

I totally get what you are saying, but this child is smart. They know how to tell time and I am always honest. The kid knows how long he slept. First thing he does when he gets up is checks the time. If he remembers, he will check the time when he falls asleep too.

I think the child will make it through the school session, but once he returns, I have no doubt that the child is going to fall on their face and we will start I don't want them napping all over again. I am not willing to lose this family, so I just decided what two options I could deal with and gave it to them.

Kind of like we do with the kids. Still our idea, but they are in control of choosing which option. I guess I am not open to saying you tell me what you want me to do, because that is giving them an open invite to tell me how to do my job and I may not be willing to do what they are asking.

By giving them options, at least I know I can handle them and again let them decide what they want to do.

As someone said, it may fix itself. With this family I can see it continuing to be an issue. I have had to call in the past to have kids picked up for unable to participate due to being overly exhausted. parents will not change what works for them and I in return will not change what works for me in my program. I guess if that is what it comes down to, then I will have no choice but to term.

UGH.

Reply

You already have a lot of good advice, I will just add that if his school is anything like my kids school then his parents will be getting all kind of notices about getting a good nights sleep. The Elementary school principal is even known to ask kids when they went to bed last night lol. They hit the parents hard and heavy in the first few weeks!

Reply