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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Discrimination at Jo-Ann's Fabrics and Crafts
TomCopeland 06:36 PM 01-04-2011
I've been talking to a provider in Kansas City who has tried unsuccessfully to participate in the "Teacher's Rewards" program at the Jo-Ann Fabrics stores. They have a policy of giving a 15% discount card to "teachers" who are defined as K-age 12 public and private school teachers, as well as home-school teachers. She tried to explain why family child care providers and other preschool teachers should be included, but was turned down. I wrote about this on my blog: www.tomcopelandblog.com ("Are Family Child Care Providers Teachers?").

I note that the IRS gives a $250 tax credit to "teachers" but not preschool teachers. This law has been around since 2002 and was just extended to 2011.

I think this is unnecessarily discriminatory and think all preschool teachers should get such discounts. Maybe if enough providers make their voices known we can change Jo-Ann Fabrics policy. I'm urging providers to post comments on the Jo-Ann Fabric Facebook page and several have done so already.
Cat Herder 06:41 PM 01-04-2011
I am in. I have a huge load of linens in the dryer. I've got nothing but time right now
KEG123 07:29 PM 01-04-2011
That would be awesome if they gave a 15% discount to us!! I shop Hancock though. The Joanne around here is a bit too far.
Lucy 07:29 PM 01-04-2011
Do preschool teachers have the amount of education that K-12 teachers do? I've always wondered that. Just what ARE the requirements to be a preschool teacher?
QualiTcare 07:43 PM 01-04-2011
Originally Posted by Joyce:
Do preschool teachers have the amount of education that K-12 teachers do? I've always wondered that. Just what ARE the requirements to be a preschool teacher?
it depends - Head Start teachers have to have an associate's degree (at least where i live) but there are pre-K programs in public schools and they have to have a bachelor's degree.

if the policy included only licensed teachers, i would understand and support the policy. what's the point of going to college for 4 years and getting a license if you get the same "benefits" that are offered to any and everyone? SINCE they offer the discount to homeschool teachers - the policy makes no sense. you can teach homeschool (in my state) with a GED. there are no credentials other than that - none.

i wonder if it has more to do with the fact that daycare providers are FOR profit while licensed teachers and homeschool teachers are NOT for profit rather than the fabric company "doesn't consider daycare providers as teachers."
Lucy 07:51 PM 01-04-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
i wonder if it has more to do with the fact that daycare providers are FOR profit while licensed teachers and homeschool teachers are NOT for profit rather than the fabric company "doesn't consider daycare providers as teachers."
I like that distinction. Maybe the reason they want to give discounts to K-12 teachers is that they struggle with low wages that they have no control over due to budget cuts. We, as self-employed Providers, have much more control about how much we make. We can raise rates or take more kids, increase our hours, etc.
Cat Herder 07:59 PM 01-04-2011
I am pretty sure both of my sisters work as teachers in public schools for a profit..... Also alot of us have degrees in other fields, too....

Eh, it is worth a try since I send almost half of my craft glue, scissors and paper to the public school for my kids teachers since the budget cuts.
Unregistered 03:46 PM 01-07-2011
Originally Posted by Joyce:
I like that distinction. Maybe the reason they want to give discounts to K-12 teachers is that they struggle with low wages that they have no control over due to budget cuts. We, as self-employed Providers, have much more control about how much we make. We can raise rates or take more kids, increase our hours, etc.
In my area, I am more likely to get parents receiving state assistance and in Oklahoma, the state sets the rate. I'm also limited to 7 kids and right now two of my own kids count in that number. I understand that I could increase my income by raising my rates, but finding parents who can pay them is nearly impossible. I am more-or-less set limited in the amount of income I can make.
Abigail 07:49 PM 01-04-2011
I think we should either be licensed or maybe just registered providers to be able to say one of our jobs is being a teacher...obviously family child care providers have many jobs of owning and operating their own business. There should be "something" that shows "proof" or else anyone can walk into these establishments and claim to be a teacher. Thanks for sharing Tom, I'll be sure to go to their FB page.

It would also help if individuals typed letters to the corporate office (if they want to make a change) and explain how often they take their business to Jo-Ann Fabrics (or any other company that they want to get that teacher discount <Hobby Lobby!>) and feel they're under-appreciated as a customer because they--as a corporation--do not properly acknowledge the customer's title in our line of work, which should make them equally eligible to receive a discount.
MommyMuffin 08:18 AM 01-06-2011
Great information!

I dont think it matters if you are an educated teacher or a daycare provider. I dont know why previous posters are getting off the real topic. I think the whole point of the discount is to get craft items and activities into the hands of children.

I would love to participate for the cause.
QualiTcare 08:55 AM 01-06-2011
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
Great information!

I dont think it matters if you are an educated teacher or a daycare provider. I dont know why previous posters are getting off the real topic. I think the whole point of the discount is to get craft items and activities into the hands of children.

I would love to participate for the cause.
it got off topic because we were talking about WHY educated teachers AND homeschool "teachers" (who do not have to be educated) are getting the discount and daycare providers are not. wait, that is the topic.

anyhow, it has to have something to do with public school/homeschool being non-profit and daycare being for profit. i'm not positive and tom hasn't responded, but that's the only explanation that makes sense.

companies don't care about getting supplies into the hands of children. they care about drawing in the people who can bring them the most money and getting the biggest breaks and rewards.
mugglegirl 04:11 PM 01-07-2011
I'll say here what I said in my response to a post on Facebook.

I don't think this is so much about the discount as it is about the general attitude toward the Early Childhood community. Many of us have college educations and provide the foundations in learning for the children in our care. We aren't just "babysitters" as we're often called. A babysitter is the teenager that watches tv with your kids for a couple of hours while you have a night out with your spouse. Its a respect issue.
QualiTcare 04:59 PM 01-07-2011
Originally Posted by mugglegirl:
I'll say here what I said in my response to a post on Facebook.

I don't think this is so much about the discount as it is about the general attitude toward the Early Childhood community. Many of us have college educations and provide the foundations in learning for the children in our care. We aren't just "babysitters" as we're often called. A babysitter is the teenager that watches tv with your kids for a couple of hours while you have a night out with your spouse. Its a respect issue.
exactly, it's a respect issue which is probably why jo-ann's has made the distinction. would it affect the pockets of teachers if daycare providers got the discount? no. as you said, it's a respect issue.

you can not call yourself a doctor if you are not a licensed doctor. you can't call yourself a nurse unless you are a licensed nurse. you can not call yourself a lawyer unless you hold a license to practice law. not only can you not say you are a doctor, nurse, or lawyer when you do not hold the license, but there are legal ramifications including jail if you do. so, why people think it's okay to throw the title of teacher around all willy-nilly is beyond me. i worked in daycare for years before i became a teacher, and i did it for awhile afterward. in my years as a daycare provider i never thought of myself as a teacher and would never have told someone who asked what i did for a living that i was a teacher. i had co-workers who when asked outside of work what they did, they would say, "i'm a pre-school teacher." it's deceptive to put it lightly.
Crystal 05:11 PM 01-07-2011
But, QCare, if the provider IS, by state definitions(not YOUR definition) a Preschool Teacher, then WHY should they NOT call themselves a teacher?

I agree that the "lady down the street" that cares for kids, who has absolutley no ECE background whatsoever should not call herself a teacher, but if the state defines you as a teacher and you have earned a credential, offered by the state, then you should call yourself a teacher.

I am a child care provider AND a teacher. I have children who come to my program 3 hours a day, specifically for preschool.

WHY should I not be called a teacher? Because YOU say so? Sorry, the State says I am and your opinion of it is worthless to me.
QualiTcare 05:13 PM 01-07-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
But, QCare, if the provider IS, by state definitions(not YOUR definition) a Preschool Teacher, then WHY should they NOT call themselves a teacher?

I agree that the "lady down the street" that cares for kids, who has absolutley no ECE background whatsoever should not call herself a teacher, but if the state defines you as a teacher and you have earned a credential, offered by the state, then you should call yourself a teacher.

I am a child care provider AND a teacher. I have children who come to my program 3 hours a day, specifically for preschool.

WHY should I not be called a teacher? Because YOU say so? Sorry, the State says I am and your opinion of it is worthless to me.

crystal, in the example that i gave, they were NOT preschool teachers. they worked at a DAYCARE and had NO education. apparently, you are qualified to teach preschool in your neck of the woods, so YOU would be a "preschool TEACHER."

although you are a rare case and still deceptive with the lingo.
mugglegirl 05:35 PM 01-07-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
crystal, in the example that i gave, they were NOT preschool teachers. they worked at a DAYCARE and had NO education. apparently, you are qualified to teach preschool in your neck of the woods, so YOU would be a "preschool TEACHER."

although you are a rare case and still deceptive with the lingo.

How is she being deceptive with her lingo?? Just because she TEACHES children out of her home, it doesn't mean she's not really teaching them.

Your attitude towards the whole situation just further proves that point that society and apparently Jo-Anns sees licensed/registered/accredited childcare providers as nothing more than glorified BABYSITTERS. The fact that we plan a curriculum and activities (just like the "real" teachers in a "real" school) doesn't seem to matter. It's all in one person's opinion of what makes a teacher. And the fact that anyone who chooses to homeschool there child is considered more of a teacher than a provider who is essentially "homeschooling" several children is preposterous.
Don't See the Harm 06:13 AM 01-10-2011
I understand the distinctions everyone is making about credentials and certificates, etc. What I don't understand is what Jo-Ann's has to lose by offering this discount? They may lose a small amount of profit. However, they will make up that profit in HUGE amounts by increasing the number of shoppers who will begin making purchases at their stores because Jo-Ann's offers them an advantage that other fabric/craft stores do not. AND they will gain the goodwill of the people who are put off by this topic. Plus, they will encourage store loyalty, which is huge nowadays. Positive marketing benefits companies to no end.
Tags:irs, jo-ann fabrics, master teacher permit, preschool, teacher rewards
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