To make a very long story short, my ex called CPS because my son's butt was bruised from a spanking. I was found innocent by the police "normal parental disapline", however CPS is on a witch hunt. Has been talking about how wonderful my ex's family is from the start (!!). Son was never taken. I would found for abuse, but they determined my son was in no danger "one time thing out of hand". I was not ever told to take classes or anything. Just have my name ruined.
We have been fighting with with my attorney for over a year. He told me not to inform licencing, as we were and are still fighting their findings. We have been going thru all the appropriate channels, local, state and next will be court. I am only a listed home. However, renewal came and they found the findings, and have shut me down. Attorney filled a restraining order for the state of Texas that day, judge approved it and so I am still running until we have court in about a week or so. This will be a differant court - not the one to fight the findings. Just to stay open.
Long shot, I know, unless anyone has a vindictive ex like me...has any one been thru this, and what was the outcome? I am terrified, and am not saying anything to parents at this time.
And a side note, can I write the retraining order off on my taxes next year? We have paid $3,000 for the CPS case and I know that isn't a write off, but the extra $2,500 I just paid him to stay open?

Reply

I'm so sorry this is all happening. In my state, if I didn't tell licensing, that would be a reason to shut me down. It's really sad the control the state has in so many parts of our lives.

Reply

"Normal" parental discipline does not include bruising your child! If my ex husband spanked one of our kids so hard it left a bruise, I would do the same thing!

Your anger and frustration should never be taken out on an innocent child. I'm sure this is just someone trying to start a spanking debate which I'm not going to get into,but bruises are not ok!

Reply

Almost anything to do with keeping your business running can be claimed as an expense, so my gut feeling is yes.

On the spanking issue...what on earth did your son do to deserve such a severe reaction from you? I'm trying super hard not to judge, but just because the court didn't mandate anger management counseling doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

Reply

I understand the reaction about the spanking, but my son is very fair skinned, borderline anemic like myself. If someone barely touches me, I bruise. My legs and arms are one giant brown mark and if someone didn't know me they would think I myself was abused. I sat thru a two hour police interegation, had my sons doctors and family members interviewed...all volunteerally.

Reply

The spanking was done thirty minutes after the incident, after I calmed down and we had our discussion. He threw a tantrum in church parking lot, ran straight into a car and almost got hit. I didn't haul off beat him.

Reply

I am suspicious of this post, and I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but.......

Ok, so you go to CHURCH, then you go home and "spank" your CHILD so hard that police are called? Really?? See the irony here? And you're upset about the cost of your lawyer? Priorities need adjustment.

Reply

Reply

Reply

I feel as though op would not have posted on this forum if she were guilty of purposely hurting her child. As with any forum opinions vary widely, and I'm sure she knew she would be judged, but felt as though she had nothing to hide. I also bruise easily and can see where this might happen. Just saying

Reply

*shrugs* It looks and feels like a troll post to me. If it's for real, then this lady needs a huge wake-up call. I don't care if your skin tone is Snow-White-fair, if you leave bruises(!!! Seriously? OMG) on your child's behind, there are going to be consequences and repercussions. And rightfully so.

Reply

Op I have no advice on cps or licensing.....

However, I will say this....

I live in her south... And was raised by very strict country parents (read redneck).

I was raised being spanked.... And I have occasionally spanked my own kids....

And regardless of anemia.... I was never bruised as a child... and my children have never been left with a bruise after spanking.

I will also say that here, spanking is perfectly legal and moral... And the law and cps says leaving marks with spanking is okay but said marks have to disappear within 24 hours. Basically which says they are aware that spanking may result in a red "mark" simply by popping the skin but that no other marks are okay.

I reserve spanking for VERY serious offenses such a a safety things. I can honestly say, if I had been in your position, I may have spanked as well. However, leaving bruises really isn't okay.

There have been cases here of children who were spanked, no marks left, then they fell and got a bruise in their hip, and an ex in a vicious custody battle knows mom spanks, assumes he marks were from her, cps gets involved, children gets taken etc... All because even though there was no proof the hip bruise was from a spanking, it was assumed because mom spanks, that it was. Families can be torn apart by cps and vindictive ex husbands or ex wives.... Leaving a family in SHAMBLES. It happens.

However, this case is a little different because you already knew your child bruised easy... And chose to spank anyway.... Maybe you spanked too hard... Maybe you didn't. But regardless, it's a chance you took.

I have no advice in how to get your life back... If you are being railroaded I'm sorry... And if you hit your child too hard... I guess only really YOU know the truth...

Reply

I am not sure which side to be on in this issue but want to share a story. My mom and dad told my siblings and I this story growing up. When my brother was 3 (he is 46 now so don't call the cops...lol) my mom saw him in the road on his ducky riding toy with a neighbor child. Mom said it scared her so bad she picked up a switch and spanked him. That night he had whelps on his legs and when they went to my grandparents that night she would not get out of the car because she was scared my grandpa would be angry with her. He went to the car, however, and told her he would rather see those whelps than to be at the funeral home viewing his grandson.

This was many years ago, and needles to say, my brother never got in the road again and mom never did that again, but we are all human. Just saying GOOD people make mistakes and act before thinking sometimes. I had a great childhood and would not even know this story had my parents not have shared with us when we all begin to have children. I guess it was to be a learning tool for us as we had families of our own.

These are just thoughts and opinions...

Reply

Cradle 2 crayons: I feel she hit too hard. It appears she was found to have committed abuse by CPS. I also feel if she had a vindictive ex who is out to get her, she shouldn't have chosen corporal punishment, especially knowing the child "bruises easily". She regrets being caught and consequences. Call me judgmental, but the description she gave seems.......unsavory, at best.

Reply

But she said she left church, went home, calmed down, discussed.....then delivered the spanking.

I liked your story, you told it well. I think the OP doesn't fit that bill though.

Love your screen name too! Whenever I see it, I start humming "The Weight" by The Band. "....won't you stay and keep Anna Lee company? Take a load off Annie......"

Reply

Annalee is the name I had picked out if I had a little girl (my mom and dad's middle names), but I got two sons instead which is OK, too.

Reply

I have a lot of mixed feelings on this! But I do want to add that just because someone goes to church doesn't mean anything...at least to me. I have found that the parents that are Christians and go to church are very open with me that they spank. Other parents who are not religious do not admit it and even try to make excuses about spanking. I was brought up Christian and was spanked on a regular basis. I personally rarely spank my own children except in extremely serious circumstances.

On another note, being a Christian, going to church doesn't make you perfect or better than others. Unfortunately it can be proven with news stories.

As you can probably tell, I am uncertain with my own religion. Which is why I kind of go back and forth in this post...sorry!

Reply

Exactly! I just found it ironic the OP mentioned it.

Reply

In California you would be required to report this to licensing within 36 hours....ANY unusual incident MUST be reported. Fail to do so and you ARE going to get shut down.

Regardless of what you are going through, the cold, hard truth is that you spanked your child, knowing that he bruises so easily, hard enough to leave bruises.....well, as a parent, I would NOT trust you to provide care for my child or any other child. And, daycare licensing clearly does not trust you to care for children either.

Move on.

Reply

Unfortunately in a line of work such as this, one moment of poor judgement can affect your entire career and future.

Reply

Sure, she could be a troll, but I don't get that impression. Even still, I feel like we can answer the core question about her chances of keeping her DC open, and the tax deduction issue, whether or not it's a made up story. (Which I don't think it is.)

I've only read this far... down to post #7, but I must say this.... let's not judge her, please. Let's take her at her word that the punishment was after reflection and discussion. Spanking is going out of favor these days, but let's remember that it was VERY commonplace until about the last 20 years, give or take.

Discipline is a personal choice within your family. As long as there is a line drawn between constructive discipline, and releasing one's anger on a child, we really shouldn't criticize. I feel like we need to take her word for it that her son is fair-skinned and bruises easily.

As far as drawing a contrast between going to church and believing in spanking - well that's just ridiculous IMO. (full disclosure, I grew up in a Christian, church-going family, but now am not religious at all) I don't think being a Christian precludes you from using constructive discipline of your choosing.

Again, this does NOT mean beating, abusing, or taking your anger out on a child. And it's MY OWN opinion.

More full disclosure - I was not spanked as a child, and I haven't spanked kids. Even still, I support any family's choice to do so.

Flame..............

Reply

Agree, answering the OP with definitely help her or whoever is looking for advice in the future. We get indexed a lot by search engines. Its a valid question. BTW, I put out flamers here.

Reply

I don't see it. She did exactly what the bible suggested she do...spare the rod spoil the child. Religion ain't so pretty, therefore I don't attend and I don't spank my children.

Reply

I dunno.....it could be a real poster, but there are just so many "hot button" topics......vindictive ex, cps shutting down her daycare, spanking, bruising easily, lawyers, religion,choosing NOT to inform licensing or parents she was found for abuse......that's a lot of high energy topics.
I don't really see her asking for advice either, except "has this happened to anyone else" and the outcome, and if she could deduct her lawyer. She has a lawyer, perhaps her lawyer would be the best person she should be getting advice from. And an accountant. As a child care provider, I find the whole post disturbing. And perhaps this post will help the next person who gets shut down for being found to have abused their own child.

Reply

I agree 100% to all of it

Reply

Whoops! I forgot to put IMO! That is my experience and my observation. Not that it is always this way or that everyone experiences this. Sorry for the confusion!

Reply

Our licensing standards say that all contact with law enforcement or authorities (CPS would be included) must be reported within 24 hours. I had a grass fire that required the fire dept. to come out. I reported it.

Reply

Nice post! I agree that posting our opinions/judgments is not helping anyone.

The poster is asking for help.

If we have any help or advice to give....I'm sure it would benefit not only her(OP) but her child as well.

.....on a side note, I read the time line as this: "The spanking was done thirty minutes after the incident, after I calmed down and we had our discussion"

My interpretation was "The spanking was done thirty minutes after the incident. PERIOD. After, I calmed down and we had our discussion."

So I viewed it as she spanked, THEN calmed down and THEN had the discussion.

Maybe OP will return so she can clarify.

Reply

Honestly, the handful of times I've spanked any of my 4 children, I was certainly NOT calm. I reacted to an extreme situation. It's almost creepy to me (and that's just my opinion) to plan a spanking. If you're that calm, you could write a lesson plan first. There are so many alternatives to spanking (again, my opinion) that are more affective.

For the OP, I'm afraid this may cost you your license. I understand that you have a right to discipline your child, and spanking is certainly an option. However, licensing will see it as "well, if she can't discipline her own child without hurting him, how can she deal with other children without hurting them?"

Maybe they would give you a chance if you could argue that you've had some additional training on positive discipline or other techniques? You are not being convicted of a crime, right, just told you crossed the line?

In most states, though, anything like this will basically mean they're on a "witch hunt". In their defense, so when they have something they consider blatant, they pretty much have to act on it. It's not always fair, for sure.

Reply

Yes, that is what I thought...most people spank WHILE upset. I thought OP said she calmed down AFTER and then talked about it, which would make sense...

Child ran out into street, mom freaked...spanked him and now we are here.....

Reply

Hmmm, I re-read post #6 and read that as spanking after she calmed down and discussed. I don't think she would spank in front of all her church companions anyways, they might have reported it. Honestly, I don't think the op will be back anyways. Its quite sad, imo.

Reply

I can only think of one bruise I have ever left on a child - my child fell off of a stepstool in the bathroom. I reached out and grabbed her to keep her from falling and getting hurt. She had a small dime size bruise from my hand on her arm. However, she didn't smash her head into the toliet, so I would do it again in a heartbeat.

So, I can't justify that bruising is never ok - but spanking sure as heck isn't.

I hope this is a troll and not an actual daycare provider. I would never send my children to someone who strikes children. There is never, never, never an ok reason to strike a child in any reason for discipline. You can call it a business cost since you need it to remain open, but honestly - consider a change of profession.

Reply

This sentiment gets misinterpreted so often to advocate corporal punishment. Jesus is referred to like a shepherd..the rod is a shepherd's crook. Shepherds guide their sheep with it; they don't hit them. It's sad how many people use this verse as anything other than that..an urge to gently guide your children in life.

Reply

Actually I have read parenting books that advocate spanking and they do instruct parents never to spank out of anger but to do it as a punishment after the discussion. So if the OP subscribes to that belief then she would have in fact first had the discussion and then spanked as the punishment.

Disclaimer:I don't and have never spanked mine or any children. I'm not advocating it but I did research in college on it.

Reply

The incident was the child running into a car - I calmed down for thirty minutes, and THEN spanked and had discussion. Not sure why them emphasis was on the fact that we were in a church parking lot? I would have done the same thing had it been walmart or ChuckECheese?

Reply

This is our families way of thinking.

I am not a troll, have been caring for children for 5+ years in a home daycare setting. I am on this board weekly, and have been very turned off by rude comments by people I had assumed might have some advice for us. I have many many pages of glowing recommendations from parents current and past and obviously would never spank a child who wasn't mine - or mine out of anger.

Reply

Thank you for the clarification.

I wasn't sure as to when the spanking occurred.

Your writing was filled with emotion and of course, all sorts of stuff running through your head I am sure.

Anyways, I wish I had advice for you but I have no idea how things work in Texas and I haven't ever been through something like this either so I can't comment on the licensing and/or appeals process either.

I do hope that you are finding the help you need through your attorney and please keep us posted as to what the outcome is. Even if the board this thread doesn't end up being helpful to you, it could be to a future reader.

Again, I am sorry you are going through this.

Reply

Yes--thank you for pointing this out!

Reply

I have planned spankings befor with older kids. They know it's coming and why. I am always calm when they're planned. My kids know I won't go nuts. It's 2 seats on the bottom and problem over. It is effective on them. They understand the difference between punishment and violence for the sake of violence. Too many kids now receive no real discipline and to their and others own detriment as u can see by the number of people who don't respect life or people and act severely entitled. The bible teaches spare the rod spoil the child for a reason. If parents raise their children w these values...religious our not...we might see a difference in behaviors in the long term that r positive. Executing spankings ir djscipline should be done w fully being in control of yourself the entire time. This is why we wait in noon-emergent situations. My kids r healthy well adjusted people, not spoiled and though we spank we also use positive reinforcements. It is combination pafenti.g techniques. We dont have to bruise.the kiddos ever. It will be something people may not agree with but it doesn't matter. What op got in trouble for was leaving a physical indication of the child's having been disciplined even after claiming she was calm when he was punished. She either wasn't as calm as she thought our didnt realize her own strength, the epitome of not being fully in control. Additionally,if ur a spanker dangerous situations are usually an immediate reaction to stake the child and get them to safety. Running in front of a car would be grounds for a then and there spanking, removal from that situation and an immediate talk. Danger is a no-wait situation. So idk ...the op made a big mistake. Had she spanked right away and told dhs it was due to danger...she probably wouldn't have been in so much hot water.the fact she admitted to waiting was probably a red flag more than the bruise itself. Most workers would excuse a bruise in a life or death situation as in this example,a bruised bottom is better than a child being run over. There was obviously more to the story

Reply

sorry about the typis. Startle not stake a child...lol and non emergent not noon...

Reply

I agree with you...Oh my! If she lost her patience with her own child how can she take care someone elses child. She should find a different job this is not a job for her. I feel sorry for the poor child. Just because Texas Law says it`s ok to spank it does not mean you should do it. My husband punched my son and When I found out I went berserk and now we are divorcing.. No adult should bruise a child.

Reply

I'm a former CPS worker and I'm not sure what the current rules and regs are but your name stays with the system until your child is 18 or so. I don't know how it works for Texas CPS but in NYC a mark on a child would result in an indicated finding and you would have to take some type of class at the very least. I'm not going to comment on the bruise, I wasn't there and you know what happened but now you have to live with the results of your actions. I am not sure how to provide advice since state to state there may be different rules/regs but with so many children dying and seriously injured there is a zero tolerance policy. It is something I would not wish for any parent to go through that did't deserve it. Once ACS is in your life it is very hard to get rid of them bc subsequent cases can be called in and this case will always be reviewed. Since you work with children this could effect your job.

Reply

I understand this, too. Because almost every single time a child is seriously injured or killed by a parent, the media finds out that there were "numerous reports" to CPS that went unanswered, and all sort of "red flags" that were ignored.

I am NOT suggesting that OP is an abusive parent, or that she would seriously harm or hurt her child. I'm only saying that once you are on the CPS radar, they almost have to keep you there, and licensing has to assume that CPS is doing their job and act accordingly. Squeeky wheel and all.

Reply

Ok...I am not a huge fan of spanking (although I've admittedly done it occasionally), and as I said earlier, am rather creeped out by planned spanking. Still, there is a HUGE difference between a spanking on the rear and PUNCHING a child! I'm also guessing that there was more to your divorce than one incident of him punching your little one.

Reply