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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>DCB Has Serious Issues :/
Mary Poppins 12:17 PM 01-05-2012
As crazy as this post may sound, it is true (and long, sorry!) but I really NEED some opinions here.
I have a dcb who is 6 and has been in my care for almost a year. We've had some issues with him (hitting, kicking, throwing toys, biting my assistant, and lots and lots of lying). I have nanny cams and keep him on camera at all times to protect my dc. I also document everything and each time something happened, I would address it with dcm, who genuinely seems concerned about her son and really wants what is best for him.
I do have in my policy the right to terminate if a child creates a hostile environment, which this one has done, but his anger and frustrations are aimed at the adults - not the other dck's. In between, he is a fun, loving, generally happy little guy who (up until now) I felt just needed some structure and guidance. I have even told dcm "if I thought he was evil, I'd terminate him NOW..". lol
So, after the last round of "issues", we devised a behavior modification plan which was working brilliantly for a few weeks right before Christmas. I mean he was like a new kid!
Welllllll.....
The day before Christmas break, dcm brings him and his 2 yo sis (who is really sweet and we really adore) as scheduled. Dcm is in TEARS. Dcb has a smile a mile wide on his face. Dcg seems oblivious (she is 2 after all
).
Dcm proceeds to tell me that dcg (2 yo) threw their puppy down the stairs and killed it that morning!!
We ALL loved this puppy as he would always come with dcm for drop-offs and pick-ups so needless to say, we were heartbroken.
So while I am consoling dcm, the first thing dcb does is pull my assistant aside and whispers in her ear that dcg "killed my puppy. I saw her do it!" -- still with a SMILE on his face. He went through the rest of the day without a care in the world. In fact, we both commented that we hadn't ever seen him so happy. Especially considering how much he seemed to love the puppy.
I'm sure you can see where this is going...
So, over Christmas break, he confesses to dcm that it was HIM, he said he killed the puppy because (in his words) "it was in my room while I was cleaning and I had no choice!".
When she told me I was in shock and I took him aside and asked him about it myself, and he gave me the same excuse. I was floored. HE IS SIX!! SIX!!!!
I have NEVER had a child leave me speechless.
Their hamster had died mysteriously a few weeks before so I asked him if he did that, too, and his answer was, I kid you not, "no, if I had, I'd have come here smiling that day too." Then quickly said "I mean frowning" when he saw the expression on my face.
Honestly, I KNOW I should term this boy after this so that's not a question as I'm sure 99% of you would have already sent him packing. The problem is, I love dcm and dcg and I really am concerned for this little dcb's psychological needs and don't want to just give up on him. I do have some limited background with child psychology but I am totally not equipped to give him what he needs - and it is obvious he needs some serious HELP. NOW.
I talked to dcm extensively and suggested counseling ASAP for him. She agreed but I don't know if she has the resources for it. She also seems to want to place blame for his behaviors on other people and things and not make him own them, which worries me.
I am so at a loss and frankly this kid is beginning to frighten us. I don't believe children are born evil, but something about this one just leaves me in awe.
So.. other than terming (which I AM considering but hate to have to do UGH)... WWYD? Would you require counseling or even attempt to find one for him or.. ??
I have a dcb who is 6 and has been in my care for almost a year. We've had some issues with him (hitting, kicking, throwing toys, biting my assistant, and lots and lots of lying). I have nanny cams and keep him on camera at all times to protect my dc. I also document everything and each time something happened, I would address it with dcm, who genuinely seems concerned about her son and really wants what is best for him.
I do have in my policy the right to terminate if a child creates a hostile environment, which this one has done, but his anger and frustrations are aimed at the adults - not the other dck's. In between, he is a fun, loving, generally happy little guy who (up until now) I felt just needed some structure and guidance. I have even told dcm "if I thought he was evil, I'd terminate him NOW..". lol
So, after the last round of "issues", we devised a behavior modification plan which was working brilliantly for a few weeks right before Christmas. I mean he was like a new kid!
Welllllll.....
The day before Christmas break, dcm brings him and his 2 yo sis (who is really sweet and we really adore) as scheduled. Dcm is in TEARS. Dcb has a smile a mile wide on his face. Dcg seems oblivious (she is 2 after all
). Dcm proceeds to tell me that dcg (2 yo) threw their puppy down the stairs and killed it that morning!!
We ALL loved this puppy as he would always come with dcm for drop-offs and pick-ups so needless to say, we were heartbroken.
So while I am consoling dcm, the first thing dcb does is pull my assistant aside and whispers in her ear that dcg "killed my puppy. I saw her do it!" -- still with a SMILE on his face. He went through the rest of the day without a care in the world. In fact, we both commented that we hadn't ever seen him so happy. Especially considering how much he seemed to love the puppy.
I'm sure you can see where this is going...
So, over Christmas break, he confesses to dcm that it was HIM, he said he killed the puppy because (in his words) "it was in my room while I was cleaning and I had no choice!".
When she told me I was in shock and I took him aside and asked him about it myself, and he gave me the same excuse. I was floored. HE IS SIX!! SIX!!!!
I have NEVER had a child leave me speechless.
Their hamster had died mysteriously a few weeks before so I asked him if he did that, too, and his answer was, I kid you not, "no, if I had, I'd have come here smiling that day too." Then quickly said "I mean frowning" when he saw the expression on my face.
Honestly, I KNOW I should term this boy after this so that's not a question as I'm sure 99% of you would have already sent him packing. The problem is, I love dcm and dcg and I really am concerned for this little dcb's psychological needs and don't want to just give up on him. I do have some limited background with child psychology but I am totally not equipped to give him what he needs - and it is obvious he needs some serious HELP. NOW.
I talked to dcm extensively and suggested counseling ASAP for him. She agreed but I don't know if she has the resources for it. She also seems to want to place blame for his behaviors on other people and things and not make him own them, which worries me.
I am so at a loss and frankly this kid is beginning to frighten us. I don't believe children are born evil, but something about this one just leaves me in awe.
So.. other than terming (which I AM considering but hate to have to do UGH)... WWYD? Would you require counseling or even attempt to find one for him or.. ??
Blackcat31 12:23 PM 01-05-2012
Honestly. I would term. If I were a parent in your care, I would leave in a red hot second if I knew you kept this child knowing wha tyou do. It is your job to keep the children safe AS A WHOLE and having a child in care that you know is having some very aggressive behaviors along is not ok, no matter how badly you feel.
I don't mean this rude, so excuse my bluntness but it isn't your job to fix or help this child other than steer mom in the direction of counseling or a pysch evaluation. You can feel bad as much as you need ot but this is NOT your problem (unless you keep him). This issue belongs to the family and they need to get this child some help before something worse happens.
I also think this may be a reportable thing....since mom told you it isn't hearsay but the behaviors are abit alarming, plus you cannot trust that mom will seek help so reporting to CPS, might guarantee some sort of intervention.
Good luck..... This is one sticky situation to be in. ((hugs)) for having to deal with this at all.
I don't mean this rude, so excuse my bluntness but it isn't your job to fix or help this child other than steer mom in the direction of counseling or a pysch evaluation. You can feel bad as much as you need ot but this is NOT your problem (unless you keep him). This issue belongs to the family and they need to get this child some help before something worse happens.
I also think this may be a reportable thing....since mom told you it isn't hearsay but the behaviors are abit alarming, plus you cannot trust that mom will seek help so reporting to CPS, might guarantee some sort of intervention.
Good luck..... This is one sticky situation to be in. ((hugs)) for having to deal with this at all.
Mary Poppins 12:33 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Honestly. I would term. If I were a parent in your care, I would leave in a red hot second if I knew you kept this child knowing wha tyou do. It is your job to keep the children safe AS A WHOLE and having a child in care that you know is having some very aggressive behaviors along is not ok, no matter how badly you feel.
I don't mean this rude, so excuse my bluntness but it isn't your job to fix or help this child other than steer mom in the direction of counseling or a pysch evaluation. You can feel bad as much as you need ot but this is NOT your problem (unless you keep him). This issue belongs to the family and they need to get this child some help before something worse happens.
I also think this may be a reportable thing....since mom told you it isn't hearsay but the behaviors are abit alarming, plus you cannot trust that mom will seek help so reporting to CPS, might guarantee some sort of intervention.
Good luck..... This is one sticky situation to be in. ((hugs)) for having to deal with this at all.
Thank you. I know you are absolutely right and this is sooo difficult for me. I really just need other dcp's to confirm what my head is telling me. I have been stressed about it for 2 days now (since they returned from break and dcm told me the horrible truth). He is off today and honestly, I don't want him to come back now after reading my own post. Honestly. I would term. If I were a parent in your care, I would leave in a red hot second if I knew you kept this child knowing wha tyou do. It is your job to keep the children safe AS A WHOLE and having a child in care that you know is having some very aggressive behaviors along is not ok, no matter how badly you feel.
I don't mean this rude, so excuse my bluntness but it isn't your job to fix or help this child other than steer mom in the direction of counseling or a pysch evaluation. You can feel bad as much as you need ot but this is NOT your problem (unless you keep him). This issue belongs to the family and they need to get this child some help before something worse happens.
I also think this may be a reportable thing....since mom told you it isn't hearsay but the behaviors are abit alarming, plus you cannot trust that mom will seek help so reporting to CPS, might guarantee some sort of intervention.
Good luck..... This is one sticky situation to be in. ((hugs)) for having to deal with this at all.
I wondered about the reporting it thing, too. I had even thought about talking to his school's counselor but really, IT ISN'T MY PLACE and as you said, it isn't my problem. Sigh.
This is just horrible for me. I try to stay emotionally detached, but, well....
wdmmom 12:34 PM 01-05-2012
Term or change your policies to include NO SCHOOL AGERS. That way you might be able to keep the family without having to care for him!
I am completely horrified by this post! I don't care if it was my minister's son...he'd be termed. That kind of behavior is WAAAAAYYY too high of a liability to me!
This child is seriously sick and twisted and will wind up killing his sister on your clock all because she got in his way if you aren't careful!
I am completely horrified by this post! I don't care if it was my minister's son...he'd be termed. That kind of behavior is WAAAAAYYY too high of a liability to me!
This child is seriously sick and twisted and will wind up killing his sister on your clock all because she got in his way if you aren't careful!
godiva83 12:40 PM 01-05-2012
What an awful situation for all of you to be in. This boy is dealing with some major aggression and psychological issues that are beyond your control. This situation does need to be reported in everyone's best interest. He seems hostile and you really don't know what could happen in any given situation. He needs immediate intervention.
I would report, give a list of resources and stress the importance of early intervention and term, after all you need to look out for all whom are in your care even the adults who are being bitten
I would report, give a list of resources and stress the importance of early intervention and term, after all you need to look out for all whom are in your care even the adults who are being bitten
KEG123 12:40 PM 01-05-2012
Wow, yeah I'd term if dcm cannot provide proof he is in counceling.
Mary Poppins 12:41 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
Term or change your policies to include NO SCHOOL AGERS. That way you might be able to keep the family without having to care for him!
I am completely horrified by this post! I don't care if it was my minister's son...he'd be termed. That kind of behavior is WAAAAAYYY too high of a liability to me!
This child is seriously sick and twisted and will wind up killing his sister on your clock all because she got in his way if you aren't careful!
Term or change your policies to include NO SCHOOL AGERS. That way you might be able to keep the family without having to care for him!
I am completely horrified by this post! I don't care if it was my minister's son...he'd be termed. That kind of behavior is WAAAAAYYY too high of a liability to me!
This child is seriously sick and twisted and will wind up killing his sister on your clock all because she got in his way if you aren't careful!
Thanks. I just signed on another SA'er (he starts tomorrow) and handed out new policies for the year so that won't work.
I am horrified by it, too. I can't believe I am in this position and if you could see this boy when he is just being good - he is SO SWEET... ugh. It is like he has something evil inside him that comes out. It's crazy!!
I have honestly only met ONE other child in my life who was like this - my dh's nephew who was adopted. He was born addicted to crack and his mom was also an alcoholic. I've read that can cause a child to be born without a conscience and THIS is exactly what I feel this dcb has. NO CONSCIENCE.
A few weeks ago he was mad and in trouble here and he told me that he "wants to go to juvie" but I thought, oh, he has just heard that term used somewhere and is saying it for shock value. Now? I am not sure this isn't exactly what he plans for his life.
I feel sick to my stomach knowing I HAVE to tell dcm he can't come back.
godiva83 12:42 PM 01-05-2012
As a care giver it is totally your place to speak to whom ever can be assistance to this boy - you are doing it for his safety and well being and that is your job.
Blackcat31 12:43 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
Thank you. I know you are absolutely right and this is sooo difficult for me. I really just need other dcp's to confirm what my head is telling me. I have been stressed about it for 2 days now (since they returned from break and dcm told me the horrible truth). He is off today and honestly, I don't want him to come back now after reading my own post.
I wondered about the reporting it thing, too. I had even thought about talking to his school's counselor but really, IT ISN'T MY PLACE and as you said, it isn't my problem. Sigh.
This is just horrible for me. I try to stay emotionally detached, but, well....
Talking to his school counselor may not be your place but reporting to Child Protective Services is. That is probably the one thing you can do for him (and his family) is to report what mom told you and hopefully they will be able to provide whatever help and/or services they need. Thank you. I know you are absolutely right and this is sooo difficult for me. I really just need other dcp's to confirm what my head is telling me. I have been stressed about it for 2 days now (since they returned from break and dcm told me the horrible truth). He is off today and honestly, I don't want him to come back now after reading my own post.
I wondered about the reporting it thing, too. I had even thought about talking to his school's counselor but really, IT ISN'T MY PLACE and as you said, it isn't my problem. Sigh.
This is just horrible for me. I try to stay emotionally detached, but, well....
It is okay to feel bad. Most of us really are caring, loving and nurturing people. It is okay to feel bad. It is NOT okay though to stay silent about something this important. Hang in there....
Oh, and I would really think about not allowing him to return tomorrow. I, personally would level with mom and tell her you are scared of the liability and the "what-if" that could happen and that would destroy your business. Being so honest and open with mom might just be the push she needs to get her DS help NOW.
Mary Poppins 12:48 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by godiva83:
What an awful situation for all of you to be in. This boy is dealing with some major aggression and psychological issues that are beyond your control. This situation does need to be reported in everyone's best interest. He seems hostile and you really don't know what could happen in any given situation. He needs immediate intervention.
I would report, give a list of resources and stress the importance of early intervention and term, after all you need to look out for all whom are in your care even the adults who are being bitten
Thank you. I really should have termed after he bit my assistant but I just... well... thought "we can fix this kid". What an awful situation for all of you to be in. This boy is dealing with some major aggression and psychological issues that are beyond your control. This situation does need to be reported in everyone's best interest. He seems hostile and you really don't know what could happen in any given situation. He needs immediate intervention.
I would report, give a list of resources and stress the importance of early intervention and term, after all you need to look out for all whom are in your care even the adults who are being bitten
Do you have any suggestions as to which resources to offer her?
Also, I am legally unlicensed but was thinking of contacting licensing in my state for guidance. I wonder if that's a good idea??
Mary Poppins 12:52 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
It is okay to feel bad. Most of us really are caring, loving and nurturing people. It is okay to feel bad. It is NOT okay though to stay silent about something this important. Hang in there....
I am literally in tears. Dcm is picking up dcg in 10 minutes and I'm afraid it will be the last time I see either of them. It is okay to feel bad. Most of us really are caring, loving and nurturing people. It is okay to feel bad. It is NOT okay though to stay silent about something this important. Hang in there....
godiva83 12:58 PM 01-05-2012
Aww hon I am so so sorry - you can tell your heart is in the right place and you just want what is best
I think Mum will get that! Tell her you are concerned for his well being and all others in your care - she should understand.
I am in Canada so my resources would be Children's Aid society/ Children services
Or if you have a 'Blue Book' it is a phone book with all mental health related persons to help and contact info.
Keep strong. Remember you can't help everyone and this boy needs more than you can give at this moment in order for him to succeed
I think Mum will get that! Tell her you are concerned for his well being and all others in your care - she should understand.
I am in Canada so my resources would be Children's Aid society/ Children services
Or if you have a 'Blue Book' it is a phone book with all mental health related persons to help and contact info.
Keep strong. Remember you can't help everyone and this boy needs more than you can give at this moment in order for him to succeed
cheerfuldom 01:01 PM 01-05-2012
I would term for the sake of the other kids and other adults, you have a responsibility to them as well. As much as you mean well for this family, it doesn't sound like you are trained to deal with the unique needs of this boy
Mary Poppins 01:25 PM 01-05-2012
Thanks again everyone. Of course while I was in the bathroom trying to gain my composure so I could tell her what needs to be said, she came and my assistant gave her dcg.
Which is good because that gives me time to gather a list of resources, practice what I am going to say and handle this professionally. It certainly isn't my 1st time terming someone but for some reason this one hits me hard.
It is just sad for all of us. Dcm and I get along so well, she is a great client, her dd is thriving here and we start what I call toddler preschool this Monday. Dcm was so excited about it and even volunteered to come help! So hopefully she will still bring dcg but I guess I need to mentally prepare for them both to go.
The weird part is, I will miss "good" dcb. He really can be such a charmer but now, looking back, I wonder how much of that is manipulative.
Most of it, I'm afraid....
Which is good because that gives me time to gather a list of resources, practice what I am going to say and handle this professionally. It certainly isn't my 1st time terming someone but for some reason this one hits me hard.
It is just sad for all of us. Dcm and I get along so well, she is a great client, her dd is thriving here and we start what I call toddler preschool this Monday. Dcm was so excited about it and even volunteered to come help! So hopefully she will still bring dcg but I guess I need to mentally prepare for them both to go.
The weird part is, I will miss "good" dcb. He really can be such a charmer but now, looking back, I wonder how much of that is manipulative.
Most of it, I'm afraid....
Breezy 01:37 PM 01-05-2012
No advice. Just wanted to send hugs!! The post gave me chills. :/
Mary Poppins 01:47 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by Breezy:
No advice. Just wanted to send hugs!! The post gave me chills. :/
You have no idea how much I value the support here. You guys are awesome. No advice. Just wanted to send hugs!! The post gave me chills. :/
nannyde 02:01 PM 01-05-2012
This is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
Cat Herder 02:06 PM 01-05-2012
Please file a report.
Mary Poppins 02:06 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
This is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW.
Thanks for your input. This is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW.
It really isn't the money, I have a waiting list and can fill both spots so that isn't an issue whatsoever. My income is gravy for our family so it's never about the money. It is that I love and adore dcg and dcm and even "good" dcb.
I'm glad you said what I was thinking re: the serial killer thing. THIS IS WHAT SENDS CHILLS DOWN MY SPINE.
daycare 02:08 PM 01-05-2012
not trying to scare you, but have you ever read the stories that were documented about Jeffery Dahmers (sp) childhood? One of the things that he did was, he got off by killing animals.
He had signs at a very young age that he was troubled, but was not given any help or direction.
NOT AT ALL saying that this is what your DCB is going to do or this is where his life is leading, just wanted to share that with you.
I agree with others, you can't let this become your problem.
He had signs at a very young age that he was troubled, but was not given any help or direction.
NOT AT ALL saying that this is what your DCB is going to do or this is where his life is leading, just wanted to share that with you.
I agree with others, you can't let this become your problem.
Sunchimes 02:27 PM 01-05-2012
I think we all need big neon signs, tattoos, post-it notes, and fridge magnets that say "I can't save them all." The temptation is so strong and so often it's not the best answer or even a reasonable answer. Sometimes, trying to save them gets in the way of someone who has a chance to save them.
I know this is one of the worst dreams of all of us, and I'm sorry that you have to take these steps. But, you've gotten some excellent advice. Keep us posted, would you?
I know this is one of the worst dreams of all of us, and I'm sorry that you have to take these steps. But, you've gotten some excellent advice. Keep us posted, would you?
daycare 02:50 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
This is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
welcome back NAN...Hope you had a wonder breakThis is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
I did not see your post before I posted, becuase I took so long to type it...(kids...hahah you are supposed to be napping)
I agree with you Nan.....everything she said...
jen 02:56 PM 01-05-2012
grandmom 03:03 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
This is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
YES YES YESThis is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
Please make the calls today. Praying for you and dcfamily.
littlemissmuffet 03:16 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
As crazy as this post may sound, it is true (and long, sorry!) but I really NEED some opinions here.
I have a dcb who is 6 and has been in my care for almost a year. We've had some issues with him (hitting, kicking, throwing toys, biting my assistant, and lots and lots of lying). I have nanny cams and keep him on camera at all times to protect my dc. I also document everything and each time something happened, I would address it with dcm, who genuinely seems concerned about her son and really wants what is best for him.
I do have in my policy the right to terminate if a child creates a hostile environment, which this one has done, but his anger and frustrations are aimed at the adults - not the other dck's. In between, he is a fun, loving, generally happy little guy who (up until now) I felt just needed some structure and guidance. I have even told dcm "if I thought he was evil, I'd terminate him NOW..". lol
So, after the last round of "issues", we devised a behavior modification plan which was working brilliantly for a few weeks right before Christmas. I mean he was like a new kid!
Welllllll.....
The day before Christmas break, dcm brings him and his 2 yo sis (who is really sweet and we really adore) as scheduled. Dcm is in TEARS. Dcb has a smile a mile wide on his face. Dcg seems oblivious (she is 2 after all ).
Dcm proceeds to tell me that dcg (2 yo) threw their puppy down the stairs and killed it that morning!!
We ALL loved this puppy as he would always come with dcm for drop-offs and pick-ups so needless to say, we were heartbroken.
So while I am consoling dcm, the first thing dcb does is pull my assistant aside and whispers in her ear that dcg "killed my puppy. I saw her do it!" -- still with a SMILE on his face. He went through the rest of the day without a care in the world. In fact, we both commented that we hadn't ever seen him so happy. Especially considering how much he seemed to love the puppy.
I'm sure you can see where this is going...
So, over Christmas break, he confesses to dcm that it was HIM, he said he killed the puppy because (in his words) "it was in my room while I was cleaning and I had no choice!".
When she told me I was in shock and I took him aside and asked him about it myself, and he gave me the same excuse. I was floored. HE IS SIX!! SIX!!!!
I have NEVER had a child leave me speechless.
Their hamster had died mysteriously a few weeks before so I asked him if he did that, too, and his answer was, I kid you not, "no, if I had, I'd have come here smiling that day too." Then quickly said "I mean frowning" when he saw the expression on my face.
Honestly, I KNOW I should term this boy after this so that's not a question as I'm sure 99% of you would have already sent him packing. The problem is, I love dcm and dcg and I really am concerned for this little dcb's psychological needs and don't want to just give up on him. I do have some limited background with child psychology but I am totally not equipped to give him what he needs - and it is obvious he needs some serious HELP. NOW.
I talked to dcm extensively and suggested counseling ASAP for him. She agreed but I don't know if she has the resources for it. She also seems to want to place blame for his behaviors on other people and things and not make him own them, which worries me.
I am so at a loss and frankly this kid is beginning to frighten us. I don't believe children are born evil, but something about this one just leaves me in awe.
So.. other than terming (which I AM considering but hate to have to do UGH)... WWYD? Would you require counseling or even attempt to find one for him or.. ??
I know sociopathic children and though I am no psychiatrist, this child very well sounds like he could be one. I would term. He's obviously dangerous and he needs professional help!As crazy as this post may sound, it is true (and long, sorry!) but I really NEED some opinions here.
I have a dcb who is 6 and has been in my care for almost a year. We've had some issues with him (hitting, kicking, throwing toys, biting my assistant, and lots and lots of lying). I have nanny cams and keep him on camera at all times to protect my dc. I also document everything and each time something happened, I would address it with dcm, who genuinely seems concerned about her son and really wants what is best for him.
I do have in my policy the right to terminate if a child creates a hostile environment, which this one has done, but his anger and frustrations are aimed at the adults - not the other dck's. In between, he is a fun, loving, generally happy little guy who (up until now) I felt just needed some structure and guidance. I have even told dcm "if I thought he was evil, I'd terminate him NOW..". lol
So, after the last round of "issues", we devised a behavior modification plan which was working brilliantly for a few weeks right before Christmas. I mean he was like a new kid!
Welllllll.....
The day before Christmas break, dcm brings him and his 2 yo sis (who is really sweet and we really adore) as scheduled. Dcm is in TEARS. Dcb has a smile a mile wide on his face. Dcg seems oblivious (she is 2 after all
). Dcm proceeds to tell me that dcg (2 yo) threw their puppy down the stairs and killed it that morning!!
We ALL loved this puppy as he would always come with dcm for drop-offs and pick-ups so needless to say, we were heartbroken.
So while I am consoling dcm, the first thing dcb does is pull my assistant aside and whispers in her ear that dcg "killed my puppy. I saw her do it!" -- still with a SMILE on his face. He went through the rest of the day without a care in the world. In fact, we both commented that we hadn't ever seen him so happy. Especially considering how much he seemed to love the puppy.
I'm sure you can see where this is going...
So, over Christmas break, he confesses to dcm that it was HIM, he said he killed the puppy because (in his words) "it was in my room while I was cleaning and I had no choice!".
When she told me I was in shock and I took him aside and asked him about it myself, and he gave me the same excuse. I was floored. HE IS SIX!! SIX!!!!
I have NEVER had a child leave me speechless.
Their hamster had died mysteriously a few weeks before so I asked him if he did that, too, and his answer was, I kid you not, "no, if I had, I'd have come here smiling that day too." Then quickly said "I mean frowning" when he saw the expression on my face.
Honestly, I KNOW I should term this boy after this so that's not a question as I'm sure 99% of you would have already sent him packing. The problem is, I love dcm and dcg and I really am concerned for this little dcb's psychological needs and don't want to just give up on him. I do have some limited background with child psychology but I am totally not equipped to give him what he needs - and it is obvious he needs some serious HELP. NOW.
I talked to dcm extensively and suggested counseling ASAP for him. She agreed but I don't know if she has the resources for it. She also seems to want to place blame for his behaviors on other people and things and not make him own them, which worries me.
I am so at a loss and frankly this kid is beginning to frighten us. I don't believe children are born evil, but something about this one just leaves me in awe.
So.. other than terming (which I AM considering but hate to have to do UGH)... WWYD? Would you require counseling or even attempt to find one for him or.. ??
Ariana 03:38 PM 01-05-2012
I do agree with the others that this matter needs to be turned over to professional people equipped to deal with such matters. I would call a local mental health hospital and they can point you in the right direction or call the police.
I would say however that some children do exhibit these types of behaviors and turn out just fine. Early intervention is key. If you truly love this kid then do the right thing by him.
This is such a sad sad situation
I would say however that some children do exhibit these types of behaviors and turn out just fine. Early intervention is key. If you truly love this kid then do the right thing by him.
This is such a sad sad situation
laundrymom 04:36 PM 01-05-2012
I'm really sorry you are going through this. I believe you should not only call cps. But the humane society too. That is animal cruelty. There needs to be a report done. That poor dog. I am sick to my stomach. I would term. Immediately. I hope this boy gets the help he needs.
PitterPatter 05:23 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
As crazy as this post may sound, it is true (and long, sorry!) but I really NEED some opinions here.
I have a dcb who is 6 and has been in my care for almost a year. We've had some issues with him (hitting, kicking, throwing toys, biting my assistant, and lots and lots of lying). I have nanny cams and keep him on camera at all times to protect my dc. I also document everything and each time something happened, I would address it with dcm, who genuinely seems concerned about her son and really wants what is best for him.
I do have in my policy the right to terminate if a child creates a hostile environment, which this one has done, but his anger and frustrations are aimed at the adults - not the other dck's. In between, he is a fun, loving, generally happy little guy who (up until now) I felt just needed some structure and guidance. I have even told dcm "if I thought he was evil, I'd terminate him NOW..". lol
So, after the last round of "issues", we devised a behavior modification plan which was working brilliantly for a few weeks right before Christmas. I mean he was like a new kid!
Welllllll.....
The day before Christmas break, dcm brings him and his 2 yo sis (who is really sweet and we really adore) as scheduled. Dcm is in TEARS. Dcb has a smile a mile wide on his face. Dcg seems oblivious (she is 2 after all ).
Dcm proceeds to tell me that dcg (2 yo) threw their puppy down the stairs and killed it that morning!!
We ALL loved this puppy as he would always come with dcm for drop-offs and pick-ups so needless to say, we were heartbroken.
So while I am consoling dcm, the first thing dcb does is pull my assistant aside and whispers in her ear that dcg "killed my puppy. I saw her do it!" -- still with a SMILE on his face. He went through the rest of the day without a care in the world. In fact, we both commented that we hadn't ever seen him so happy. Especially considering how much he seemed to love the puppy.
I'm sure you can see where this is going...
So, over Christmas break, he confesses to dcm that it was HIM, he said he killed the puppy because (in his words) "it was in my room while I was cleaning and I had no choice!".
When she told me I was in shock and I took him aside and asked him about it myself, and he gave me the same excuse. I was floored. HE IS SIX!! SIX!!!!
I have NEVER had a child leave me speechless.
Their hamster had died mysteriously a few weeks before so I asked him if he did that, too, and his answer was, I kid you not, "no, if I had, I'd have come here smiling that day too." Then quickly said "I mean frowning" when he saw the expression on my face.
Honestly, I KNOW I should term this boy after this so that's not a question as I'm sure 99% of you would have already sent him packing. The problem is, I love dcm and dcg and I really am concerned for this little dcb's psychological needs and don't want to just give up on him. I do have some limited background with child psychology but I am totally not equipped to give him what he needs - and it is obvious he needs some serious HELP. NOW.
I talked to dcm extensively and suggested counseling ASAP for him. She agreed but I don't know if she has the resources for it. She also seems to want to place blame for his behaviors on other people and things and not make him own them, which worries me.
I am so at a loss and frankly this kid is beginning to frighten us. I don't believe children are born evil, but something about this one just leaves me in awe.
So.. other than terming (which I AM considering but hate to have to do UGH)... WWYD? Would you require counseling or even attempt to find one for him or.. ??
First of all HUGS to you!! What a sad situation for everyone involved!As crazy as this post may sound, it is true (and long, sorry!) but I really NEED some opinions here.
I have a dcb who is 6 and has been in my care for almost a year. We've had some issues with him (hitting, kicking, throwing toys, biting my assistant, and lots and lots of lying). I have nanny cams and keep him on camera at all times to protect my dc. I also document everything and each time something happened, I would address it with dcm, who genuinely seems concerned about her son and really wants what is best for him.
I do have in my policy the right to terminate if a child creates a hostile environment, which this one has done, but his anger and frustrations are aimed at the adults - not the other dck's. In between, he is a fun, loving, generally happy little guy who (up until now) I felt just needed some structure and guidance. I have even told dcm "if I thought he was evil, I'd terminate him NOW..". lol
So, after the last round of "issues", we devised a behavior modification plan which was working brilliantly for a few weeks right before Christmas. I mean he was like a new kid!
Welllllll.....
The day before Christmas break, dcm brings him and his 2 yo sis (who is really sweet and we really adore) as scheduled. Dcm is in TEARS. Dcb has a smile a mile wide on his face. Dcg seems oblivious (she is 2 after all
). Dcm proceeds to tell me that dcg (2 yo) threw their puppy down the stairs and killed it that morning!!
We ALL loved this puppy as he would always come with dcm for drop-offs and pick-ups so needless to say, we were heartbroken.
So while I am consoling dcm, the first thing dcb does is pull my assistant aside and whispers in her ear that dcg "killed my puppy. I saw her do it!" -- still with a SMILE on his face. He went through the rest of the day without a care in the world. In fact, we both commented that we hadn't ever seen him so happy. Especially considering how much he seemed to love the puppy.
I'm sure you can see where this is going...
So, over Christmas break, he confesses to dcm that it was HIM, he said he killed the puppy because (in his words) "it was in my room while I was cleaning and I had no choice!".
When she told me I was in shock and I took him aside and asked him about it myself, and he gave me the same excuse. I was floored. HE IS SIX!! SIX!!!!
I have NEVER had a child leave me speechless.
Their hamster had died mysteriously a few weeks before so I asked him if he did that, too, and his answer was, I kid you not, "no, if I had, I'd have come here smiling that day too." Then quickly said "I mean frowning" when he saw the expression on my face.
Honestly, I KNOW I should term this boy after this so that's not a question as I'm sure 99% of you would have already sent him packing. The problem is, I love dcm and dcg and I really am concerned for this little dcb's psychological needs and don't want to just give up on him. I do have some limited background with child psychology but I am totally not equipped to give him what he needs - and it is obvious he needs some serious HELP. NOW.
I talked to dcm extensively and suggested counseling ASAP for him. She agreed but I don't know if she has the resources for it. She also seems to want to place blame for his behaviors on other people and things and not make him own them, which worries me.
I am so at a loss and frankly this kid is beginning to frighten us. I don't believe children are born evil, but something about this one just leaves me in awe.
So.. other than terming (which I AM considering but hate to have to do UGH)... WWYD? Would you require counseling or even attempt to find one for him or.. ??
2nd, I am not one to term easliy. I have been advised to term a few kids since I started coming here and I always have that soft spot for the children and try to help everyone but in this case, I say term. You can't help this child and holding off may cause another child or even you to be hurt or worse!
I'm sorry you have been put in this spot but I would also report this issue to CPS or at least your monitor/licensor. When a child starts hurting animals or people and enjoying it then it's time for serious evaluations!
Good luck to you!
countrymom 05:23 PM 01-05-2012
that is such a scary post, esp. at the age of 6 what will happen at the age of 10 or 15 if he doesn't get help. Mom must know something is not right, what did she do when she found out it was the boy who killed the dog.
PitterPatter 05:28 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
This is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
My 1st thoughts exactly but as usual I tried to sugar coat it. This is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
I just pray nothing happens to his sis or Mom even. It is possible no one is safe from this child.
busymommy0420 05:33 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by Catherder:
Please file a report.
I agree. It is imperative for his safety and the safety for others around him that he gets the help he needs!Please file a report.
SilverSabre25 05:35 PM 01-05-2012
What they said...I hope everything works out...for everyone around him if not for him too.
MommyofThree 05:37 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
Thank you. I know you are absolutely right and this is sooo difficult for me. I really just need other dcp's to confirm what my head is telling me. I have been stressed about it for 2 days now (since they returned from break and dcm told me the horrible truth). He is off today and honestly, I don't want him to come back now after reading my own post.
I wondered about the reporting it thing, too. I had even thought about talking to his school's counselor but really, IT ISN'T MY PLACE and as you said, it isn't my problem. Sigh.
This is just horrible for me. I try to stay emotionally detached, but, well....
Actually it is your place to call CPS NOWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has a little sister that god knows he could hurt that baby while mom is sleeping. This kid needs help and if mom wont find help then u as a dcp need to step in and protect that baby girl!!!!!!!!!!Thank you. I know you are absolutely right and this is sooo difficult for me. I really just need other dcp's to confirm what my head is telling me. I have been stressed about it for 2 days now (since they returned from break and dcm told me the horrible truth). He is off today and honestly, I don't want him to come back now after reading my own post.
I wondered about the reporting it thing, too. I had even thought about talking to his school's counselor but really, IT ISN'T MY PLACE and as you said, it isn't my problem. Sigh.
This is just horrible for me. I try to stay emotionally detached, but, well....
LittleD 06:17 PM 01-05-2012
Originally Posted by melissathayer28:
Actually it is your place to call CPS NOWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has a little sister that god knows he could hurt that baby while mom is sleeping. This kid needs help and if mom wont find help then u as a dcp need to step in and protect that baby girl!!!!!!!!!!
That's what I was thinking! Today the dog, but tomorrow what if its his sister who goes into his room, or plays with his toy, or something else that upstes him??Actually it is your place to call CPS NOWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has a little sister that god knows he could hurt that baby while mom is sleeping. This kid needs help and if mom wont find help then u as a dcp need to step in and protect that baby girl!!!!!!!!!!
sharlan 07:47 PM 01-05-2012
I have to agree with the others. You have to term this child ASAP.
You are aware of his abusive behavior towards adults. You are aware of his abusive behavior towards animals. If you turn your back on him for one second and a child is injured in anyway, you will be held liable.
You have an obligation to the other children in your care. You have an obligation to your assistant and to your own children.
You need to report this to CPS tomorrow.
As much as we would all like to, we cannot save all the children in the world. We just do not have what it takes. We do not have the necessary training.
You are aware of his abusive behavior towards adults. You are aware of his abusive behavior towards animals. If you turn your back on him for one second and a child is injured in anyway, you will be held liable.
You have an obligation to the other children in your care. You have an obligation to your assistant and to your own children.
You need to report this to CPS tomorrow.
As much as we would all like to, we cannot save all the children in the world. We just do not have what it takes. We do not have the necessary training.
Kaddidle Care 07:49 PM 01-05-2012
Very scary.
This is why many breeders won't sell puppies to families that have children under the age of 5. I hope it will be a painful lesson to the Mother to not trust this child with his sister. The whole stairs thing makes me cringe.
The boy does not understand the finality of death. Not unusual for a child under 4 but at 6 he should realize that what he did was terribly wrong.
This is why many breeders won't sell puppies to families that have children under the age of 5. I hope it will be a painful lesson to the Mother to not trust this child with his sister. The whole stairs thing makes me cringe.
The boy does not understand the finality of death. Not unusual for a child under 4 but at 6 he should realize that what he did was terribly wrong.
MN Mom 04:02 AM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
This is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
I agree with Nan. This child is displaying classic behavior of a Psychopath. He needs professional help. Now.This is profoundly serious. Do not allow the temptation of the loss of money from the sibling steer you into deciding to "work" with him and to super supervise him so you can have the money. If that's what you are doing right now in your head... stop it. You can't have the money and the safety of you, your home, your kids, your staff, your dc kids. You can't. Period.
You need to call the Mom and tell her he can not return. He is displaying signs that are seen in serial killers as children. His biting an adult, his joy and the death, his joy at deception, his evasive answers regarding the hampster, and the killing of the puppy for no reason other than "words" to you and his Mom.
This is a DEVESTATING and needs IMMEDIATE law enforcement action and a child psychiatrist. I would not only call child protective... I would call the police RIGHT NOW. This needs to leave your hands TO-DAY and get into the hands of professionals. It's not up to YOU and it's not up to MOM. This is a serious crime and it needs to be reported.
laundrymom 08:28 AM 01-06-2012
Any update? I have been sick with worry for OP all night because of the choice and action she has to make today.
littlemissmuffet 09:31 AM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
Thank you. I know you are absolutely right and this is sooo difficult for me. I really just need other dcp's to confirm what my head is telling me. I have been stressed about it for 2 days now (since they returned from break and dcm told me the horrible truth). He is off today and honestly, I don't want him to come back now after reading my own post.
I wondered about the reporting it thing, too. I had even thought about talking to his school's counselor but really, IT ISN'T MY PLACE and as you said, it isn't my problem. Sigh.
This is just horrible for me. I try to stay emotionally detached, but, well....
Thank you. I know you are absolutely right and this is sooo difficult for me. I really just need other dcp's to confirm what my head is telling me. I have been stressed about it for 2 days now (since they returned from break and dcm told me the horrible truth). He is off today and honestly, I don't want him to come back now after reading my own post.
I wondered about the reporting it thing, too. I had even thought about talking to his school's counselor but really, IT ISN'T MY PLACE and as you said, it isn't my problem. Sigh.
This is just horrible for me. I try to stay emotionally detached, but, well....
Yes, it IS your place, and yes it IS your problem. I'm sorry but it's people with this attitude who turn the other cheek and close their eyes to situations like this, pass the buck and then people get seriously harmed or DIE because of it. Trust me, a good friend of mine was abused almost to death and there were almost a hundred witnesses and nobody came forward to report to police because they didn't think it was their place.
Mary Poppins 11:03 AM 01-06-2012
Well it's done. I contacted DHS and our local LE as everyone suggested. It is out of my hands. I told her when she came to drop them off that I had no choice and offered to call dcb's school counselor. She declined and told me that DHS had already contacted her so someone else (she thinks it was her Mom) had already called in about this.
The thing is, dcb (and dcm) insisted that although he did it out of anger, he didn't think the puppy would die. So she has decided it was an "accident" and will probably tell LE as much.
Either way, I told her he can't return to dc and I'll find out Monday if dcg will be coming back. The whole situation sucks but it is dealt with and what a load off my mind!!
Thanks everyone for your support and for saying exactly what I needed to hear. I hope this post, in turn, helps other dcp's do the right thing even though it is REALLY EFFING HARD!!!
The thing is, dcb (and dcm) insisted that although he did it out of anger, he didn't think the puppy would die. So she has decided it was an "accident" and will probably tell LE as much.
Either way, I told her he can't return to dc and I'll find out Monday if dcg will be coming back. The whole situation sucks but it is dealt with and what a load off my mind!!
Thanks everyone for your support and for saying exactly what I needed to hear. I hope this post, in turn, helps other dcp's do the right thing even though it is REALLY EFFING HARD!!!
nannyde 11:11 AM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
Well it's done. I contacted DHS and our local LE as everyone suggested. It is out of my hands. I told her when she came to drop them off that I had no choice and offered to call dcb's school counselor. She declined and told me that DHS had already contacted her so someone else (she thinks it was her Mom) had already called in about this.
The thing is, dcb (and dcm) insisted that although he did it out of anger, he didn't think the puppy would die. So she has decided it was an "accident" and will probably tell LE as much.
Either way, I told her he can't return to dc and I'll find out Monday if dcg will be coming back. The whole situation sucks but it is dealt with and what a load off my mind!!
Thanks everyone for your support and for saying exactly what I needed to hear. I hope this post, in turn, helps other dcp's do the right thing even though it is REALLY EFFING HARD!!!
It doesn't matter what the Mom thinks it was. Her opinion on this means nothing. Well it's done. I contacted DHS and our local LE as everyone suggested. It is out of my hands. I told her when she came to drop them off that I had no choice and offered to call dcb's school counselor. She declined and told me that DHS had already contacted her so someone else (she thinks it was her Mom) had already called in about this.
The thing is, dcb (and dcm) insisted that although he did it out of anger, he didn't think the puppy would die. So she has decided it was an "accident" and will probably tell LE as much.
Either way, I told her he can't return to dc and I'll find out Monday if dcg will be coming back. The whole situation sucks but it is dealt with and what a load off my mind!!
Thanks everyone for your support and for saying exactly what I needed to hear. I hope this post, in turn, helps other dcp's do the right thing even though it is REALLY EFFING HARD!!!
What does matter is that YOU make sure that you tell LE EVERTYHING you told us. The puppy being thrown down the stairs and dying is one part of this. The most telling part is his deception and his happiness at the deception and his happiness throughout the day.
Please... if you were not as specific with LE as you were with us... then call them back and tell them this. You also need to tell them about the biting of the adult. That's HIGHLY unusual for a child his age. They need to have everything you know and feel. You have known this kid for a year so you can attest to the chronic lying, behavior issues, targeting your female staff, etc. That info is just as important as the act of hurting the puppy.
Did you tell them about the hampster?
Mary Poppins 11:13 AM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It doesn't matter what the Mom thinks it was. Her opinion on this means nothing.
What does matter is that YOU make sure that you tell LE EVERTYHING you told us. The puppy being thrown down the stairs and dying is one part of this. The most telling part is his deception and his happiness at the deception and his happiness throughout the day.
Please... if you were not as specific with LE as you were with us... then call them back and tell them this. You also need to tell them about the biting of the adult. That's HIGHLY unusual for a child his age. They need to have everything you know and feel. You have known this kid for a year so you can attest to the chronic lying, behavior issues, targeting your female staff, etc. That info is just as important as the act of hurting the puppy.
Did you tell them about the hampster?
I told them everything and even made copies of the notes I've taken which had a few things I'd forgotten but I felt were significant. I just hope he gets the help he needs now. It doesn't matter what the Mom thinks it was. Her opinion on this means nothing.
What does matter is that YOU make sure that you tell LE EVERTYHING you told us. The puppy being thrown down the stairs and dying is one part of this. The most telling part is his deception and his happiness at the deception and his happiness throughout the day.
Please... if you were not as specific with LE as you were with us... then call them back and tell them this. You also need to tell them about the biting of the adult. That's HIGHLY unusual for a child his age. They need to have everything you know and feel. You have known this kid for a year so you can attest to the chronic lying, behavior issues, targeting your female staff, etc. That info is just as important as the act of hurting the puppy.
Did you tell them about the hampster?
Mary Poppins 11:15 AM 01-06-2012
I should add that I was completely floored by the fact that today she not only told me she now thinks it was an "accident" but that she's been giving dcb "extra special attention" to help him get over his guilt.
She even sent him here with a new toy she bought him yesterday because he has "not been able to sleep since the accident". So obviously he is manipulating this and she is buying into it. Ridiculous!!
She even sent him here with a new toy she bought him yesterday because he has "not been able to sleep since the accident".
So obviously he is manipulating this and she is buying into it. Ridiculous!!
busymommy0420 11:18 AM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
Well it's done. I contacted DHS and our local LE as everyone suggested. It is out of my hands. I told her when she came to drop them off that I had no choice and offered to call dcb's school counselor. She declined and told me that DHS had already contacted her so someone else (she thinks it was her Mom) had already called in about this.
The thing is, dcb (and dcm) insisted that although he did it out of anger, he didn't think the puppy would die. So she has decided it was an "accident" and will probably tell LE as much.
Either way, I told her he can't return to dc and I'll find out Monday if dcg will be coming back. The whole situation sucks but it is dealt with and what a load off my mind!!
Thanks everyone for your support and for saying exactly what I needed to hear. I hope this post, in turn, helps other dcp's do the right thing even though it is REALLY EFFING HARD!!!
Hugs to you...and prayers that he gets the help he needs! Well it's done. I contacted DHS and our local LE as everyone suggested. It is out of my hands. I told her when she came to drop them off that I had no choice and offered to call dcb's school counselor. She declined and told me that DHS had already contacted her so someone else (she thinks it was her Mom) had already called in about this.
The thing is, dcb (and dcm) insisted that although he did it out of anger, he didn't think the puppy would die. So she has decided it was an "accident" and will probably tell LE as much.
Either way, I told her he can't return to dc and I'll find out Monday if dcg will be coming back. The whole situation sucks but it is dealt with and what a load off my mind!!
Thanks everyone for your support and for saying exactly what I needed to hear. I hope this post, in turn, helps other dcp's do the right thing even though it is REALLY EFFING HARD!!!
Blackcat31 11:26 AM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
I should add that I was completely floored by the fact that today she not only told me she now thinks it was an "accident" but that she's been giving dcb "extra special attention" to help him get over his guilt.
She even sent him here with a new toy she bought him yesterday because he has "not been able to sleep since the accident". So obviously he is manipulating this and she is buying into it. Ridiculous!!
You did the right thing. No matter what happens, no matter how hard it is to deal with and no matter how difficult, you did EXACTLY what needed to be done. I should add that I was completely floored by the fact that today she not only told me she now thinks it was an "accident" but that she's been giving dcb "extra special attention" to help him get over his guilt.
She even sent him here with a new toy she bought him yesterday because he has "not been able to sleep since the accident".
So obviously he is manipulating this and she is buying into it. Ridiculous!!((((hugs)))) for having to have gone through this but again, you did the right thing.
Blackcat31 11:31 AM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Yes, it IS your place, and yes it IS your problem. I'm sorry but it's people with this attitude who turn the other cheek and close their eyes to situations like this, pass the buck and then people get seriously harmed or DIE because of it. Trust me, a good friend of mine was abused almost to death and there were almost a hundred witnesses and nobody came forward to report to police because they didn't think it was their place.
I am the one who said "it isn't your problem". Yes, it IS your place, and yes it IS your problem. I'm sorry but it's people with this attitude who turn the other cheek and close their eyes to situations like this, pass the buck and then people get seriously harmed or DIE because of it. Trust me, a good friend of mine was abused almost to death and there were almost a hundred witnesses and nobody came forward to report to police because they didn't think it was their place.
But, when I said those words, they were in response to it NOT being her problem to 'fix" him.
I also advised her to report it to the right people so the child could get help.
In NO way did I say it wasn't her problem as in 'just ignore it or turn the other cheek.
Just wanted to make that very clear.
Cat Herder 11:32 AM 01-06-2012
Thank you!!!
Not enough people are brave enough to do the right thing.
Not enough people are brave enough to do the right thing.
SilverSabre25 11:42 AM 01-06-2012
Good for you! I can't imagine how hard that must have been but you definitely did the right thing, and I'm glad to hear that there is someone else looking out for this family as well (whoever else reported the issue).
Mary Poppins 11:47 AM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am the one who said "it isn't your problem".
But, when I said those words, they were in response to it NOT being her problem to 'fix" him.
I also advised her to report it to the right people so the child could get help.
In NO way did I say it wasn't her problem as in 'just ignore it or turn the other cheek.
Just wanted to make that very clear.
Right and I wouldn't have not told SOMEONE, my thought was it maybe didn't qualify as a "mandatory reportable" thing so I was at least thinking to make sure his school counselor knew so she could take it from there. But then I thought THAT wasn't my place. I am the one who said "it isn't your problem".
But, when I said those words, they were in response to it NOT being her problem to 'fix" him.
I also advised her to report it to the right people so the child could get help.
In NO way did I say it wasn't her problem as in 'just ignore it or turn the other cheek.
Just wanted to make that very clear.
Anyway, I'm glad I did go ahead and call DHS, they were awesome and even the lady I talked to told me that it was one of those "grey areas" as far as reporting.
Blackcat31 12:00 PM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
Right and I wouldn't have not told SOMEONE, my thought was it maybe didn't qualify as a "mandatory reportable" thing so I was at least thinking to make sure his school counselor knew so she could take it from there. But then I thought THAT wasn't my place.
Anyway, I'm glad I did go ahead and call DHS, they were awesome and even the lady I talked to told me that it was one of those "grey areas" as far as reporting.
Right and I wouldn't have not told SOMEONE, my thought was it maybe didn't qualify as a "mandatory reportable" thing so I was at least thinking to make sure his school counselor knew so she could take it from there. But then I thought THAT wasn't my place.
Anyway, I'm glad I did go ahead and call DHS, they were awesome and even the lady I talked to told me that it was one of those "grey areas" as far as reporting.
I am sooooo glad you did call. It is often tough to decipher those gray areas and like everyone said, there is too many other things going on that point out that this child has issues bigger than any of us can manage. I know YOU know what I meant but just wanted to make sure the other posters knew that I wasn't saying it wasn't your problem to report...just not your problem to fix.
I know that 'fixing' kids is often our first instinct and we all try so that we don't feel like we are giving up on a child but sometimes, things are just too big for any one person....even child care providers.
I am sure this whole thing has been weighing on you heavily and I am glad you took the time to post here so that you could get the push you needed to do what I think you already knew you had to do.
Keep us posted as to whether the dcg comes back. I would completely understand if mom chooses not to send her back, but I am betting even she knows in her heart of hearts that there is something not right with her son.
Unfortuantely, mom's have a natural blindness when it comes to our off-spring so no matter what happens YOU DID HELP THIS CHILD. You help the whole family.
sharlan 12:02 PM 01-06-2012
I know how hard this must have been for you. You did the right thing.
I understand what the mother is doing. No one wants to admit that their 6 yo is a psychopath in training, but this child definitely is. She is definitely NOT helping this child. Making excuses for his behavior is teaching him that he can get away with bigger and better things.
I understand what the mother is doing. No one wants to admit that their 6 yo is a psychopath in training, but this child definitely is. She is definitely NOT helping this child. Making excuses for his behavior is teaching him that he can get away with bigger and better things.
Unregistered 12:17 PM 01-06-2012
I am logged out as I am a well known regular on the forum. I cried like a baby reading your post.
My oldest son is a sociopath and this was like reading about him. He never actually killed an animal, but his interest in death, his lying, lack of empathy etc are all classic symptoms.
You did the right thing in terminating. And all I can say is God help his mother. My heart aches for her. Been there. Done that.
I have not seen my son for about two and a half years now (he is almost 30). That is a good thing. I will always love him to the depths of my soul, but we have been told he cannot be helped and we need to stay as far away from him as possible for our own sanity and welfare.
Each time you saw the "good" side of this boy, you were being manipulated. There are people in our neighborhood who ask after my son and I have to be vague, because THEY think he is the nicest, kindest person they ever met.
If you have ever seen a movie called The Good Son, you have seen this kind of child in action (albeit sensationalized for the movie). They are scary people. usually intelligent and can be charming and social and happy. Next thing you know it's like coming face to face with the devil himself.
Sociopaths have no empathy. They DO NOT CARE. They act the part, because they know they have to try and fit in. Counselling does not usually help. Our son's doctors refused to treat him once they diagnosed him. They told us it does more harm than good. They cannot be fixed. Infact they often get worse because they learn more about human frailty and therefore learn how to further exploit it. They have no desire to be "better".
Family members turned against us when we began to pull away from the hell we had lived with for years. They saw the "good" son. Some later learned the hard way and THEN understood.
I hope the family gets help, the mother especially. She's going to need it. If I were her, I wuld never leave the boy alone with his sister or any other child or animal.
My oldest son is a sociopath and this was like reading about him. He never actually killed an animal, but his interest in death, his lying, lack of empathy etc are all classic symptoms.
You did the right thing in terminating. And all I can say is God help his mother. My heart aches for her. Been there. Done that.
I have not seen my son for about two and a half years now (he is almost 30). That is a good thing. I will always love him to the depths of my soul, but we have been told he cannot be helped and we need to stay as far away from him as possible for our own sanity and welfare.
Each time you saw the "good" side of this boy, you were being manipulated. There are people in our neighborhood who ask after my son and I have to be vague, because THEY think he is the nicest, kindest person they ever met.
If you have ever seen a movie called The Good Son, you have seen this kind of child in action (albeit sensationalized for the movie). They are scary people. usually intelligent and can be charming and social and happy. Next thing you know it's like coming face to face with the devil himself.
Sociopaths have no empathy. They DO NOT CARE. They act the part, because they know they have to try and fit in. Counselling does not usually help. Our son's doctors refused to treat him once they diagnosed him. They told us it does more harm than good. They cannot be fixed. Infact they often get worse because they learn more about human frailty and therefore learn how to further exploit it. They have no desire to be "better".
Family members turned against us when we began to pull away from the hell we had lived with for years. They saw the "good" son. Some later learned the hard way and THEN understood.
I hope the family gets help, the mother especially. She's going to need it. If I were her, I wuld never leave the boy alone with his sister or any other child or animal.
countrymom 12:17 PM 01-06-2012
hugs, you did the right thing. her mom must have thought that there was something wrong too otherwise she wouldn't have called. You may not have saved him now, but I guarentee that 10 yrs from now, they will be thanking you for making that phone call.
3kidzmama 12:50 PM 01-06-2012
You did the right thing. The first year I taught kindergarten, I had a little boy very similar to the one you describe. He was scary. You could literally see in his face when he changed from "normal" to demented. Among various other things he did, he killed the two birds we had as classroom pets. Reached in the cage and squeezed them in his fists. His reason? Said he liked how it felt.
I had tried for three months to have this child evaluated for psychological problems. The very next day he was finally removed from my classroom because he attacked another child with scissors from his crayon box. The other child wasn't injured, but I was cut in my attempt to prevent the attack.
He was not allowed to return to public school that school year and was sent to live in an institution for children with serious psychological problems.
I heard through the grapevine that he was removed from his biological family as well, and it was discovered that he had been abusing (physically and sexually) his younger brother. **shudder**
I had tried for three months to have this child evaluated for psychological problems. The very next day he was finally removed from my classroom because he attacked another child with scissors from his crayon box. The other child wasn't injured, but I was cut in my attempt to prevent the attack.
He was not allowed to return to public school that school year and was sent to live in an institution for children with serious psychological problems.
I heard through the grapevine that he was removed from his biological family as well, and it was discovered that he had been abusing (physically and sexually) his younger brother. **shudder**
nannyde 01:15 PM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
I should add that I was completely floored by the fact that today she not only told me she now thinks it was an "accident" but that she's been giving dcb "extra special attention" to help him get over his guilt.
She even sent him here with a new toy she bought him yesterday because he has "not been able to sleep since the accident". So obviously he is manipulating this and she is buying into it. Ridiculous!!
She will do this until another incident and there WILL be another incident. Most likely she will keep him away from small pets so it won't be an animal until he's outside playing without an adult. Most likely it will escalate to him starting a fire. I should add that I was completely floored by the fact that today she not only told me she now thinks it was an "accident" but that she's been giving dcb "extra special attention" to help him get over his guilt.
She even sent him here with a new toy she bought him yesterday because he has "not been able to sleep since the accident".
So obviously he is manipulating this and she is buying into it. Ridiculous!!He's not manipulating her. She's manipulating herself. If she says it's an accident and he needs special special then SHE gets to have special not the hard work of therapy and having multiple people in her life telling her truth.
Right now she's doing what is best for HER. That will work until his acts affect someone or something outside of her home.
As Pink Floyd says "all in all your're just another brick in the wall". That's your job. Be one person who starts the documentation process that the MOM needs, the cops need, and the mental health people need to show the pattern. He's so young that he hasn't had time to HAVE a pattern that isn't within the high extremes of "normal" childhood behavior. You are documenting the first stage of the sociopathic behavior (which is very common at the age of 6 to 6.5). That will be added to the future events so THEY aren't seen as singular. It's the totality of year after year of off the spectrum behavior that will get this kid the help he needs.
Sociopathic behavior does occur in young children and it stands to reason that some of those kids will be in child care in their early childhood.
Don't worry about the Mom's reaction. Just remember it's for HER.
Mary Poppins 05:46 PM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am logged out as I am a well known regular on the forum. I cried like a baby reading your post.
My oldest son is a sociopath and this was like reading about him. He never actually killed an animal, but his interest in death, his lying, lack of empathy etc are all classic symptoms.
You did the right thing in terminating. And all I can say is God help his mother. My heart aches for her. Been there. Done that.
I have not seen my son for about two and a half years now (he is almost 30). That is a good thing. I will always love him to the depths of my soul, but we have been told he cannot be helped and we need to stay as far away from him as possible for our own sanity and welfare.
Each time you saw the "good" side of this boy, you were being manipulated. There are people in our neighborhood who ask after my son and I have to be vague, because THEY think he is the nicest, kindest person they ever met.
If you have ever seen a movie called The Good Son, you have seen this kind of child in action (albeit sensationalized for the movie). They are scary people. usually intelligent and can be charming and social and happy. Next thing you know it's like coming face to face with the devil himself.
Sociopaths have no empathy. They DO NOT CARE. They act the part, because they know they have to try and fit in. Counselling does not usually help. Our son's doctors refused to treat him once they diagnosed him. They told us it does more harm than good. They cannot be fixed. Infact they often get worse because they learn more about human frailty and therefore learn how to further exploit it. They have no desire to be "better".
Family members turned against us when we began to pull away from the hell we had lived with for years. They saw the "good" son. Some later learned the hard way and THEN understood.
I hope the family gets help, the mother especially. She's going to need it. If I were her, I wuld never leave the boy alone with his sister or any other child or animal.
Thank you for sharing. I actually have an older brother who had all the classic signs of a sociopath and I grew up absolutely terrified of him. He abused animals in front of us for pleasure, was a fire bug and the most charming pathological liar you could meet. EVERYONE LOVES HIM! But I know the real him and he is horrible. This little dcb reminds me a lot of my brother, actually, which I think made it harder because I, too, love my brother but I know how dangerous he is. I am logged out as I am a well known regular on the forum. I cried like a baby reading your post.
My oldest son is a sociopath and this was like reading about him. He never actually killed an animal, but his interest in death, his lying, lack of empathy etc are all classic symptoms.
You did the right thing in terminating. And all I can say is God help his mother. My heart aches for her. Been there. Done that.
I have not seen my son for about two and a half years now (he is almost 30). That is a good thing. I will always love him to the depths of my soul, but we have been told he cannot be helped and we need to stay as far away from him as possible for our own sanity and welfare.
Each time you saw the "good" side of this boy, you were being manipulated. There are people in our neighborhood who ask after my son and I have to be vague, because THEY think he is the nicest, kindest person they ever met.
If you have ever seen a movie called The Good Son, you have seen this kind of child in action (albeit sensationalized for the movie). They are scary people. usually intelligent and can be charming and social and happy. Next thing you know it's like coming face to face with the devil himself.
Sociopaths have no empathy. They DO NOT CARE. They act the part, because they know they have to try and fit in. Counselling does not usually help. Our son's doctors refused to treat him once they diagnosed him. They told us it does more harm than good. They cannot be fixed. Infact they often get worse because they learn more about human frailty and therefore learn how to further exploit it. They have no desire to be "better".
Family members turned against us when we began to pull away from the hell we had lived with for years. They saw the "good" son. Some later learned the hard way and THEN understood.
I hope the family gets help, the mother especially. She's going to need it. If I were her, I wuld never leave the boy alone with his sister or any other child or animal.
I know this sounds crazy, but I've looked at missing person's reports or watched cold case crime shows in cities I knew he lived in over the years and honestly wondered....
Ugh.
I, too, cut ties with him years ago for the same reasons you mentioned. My children don't know him but I bet he would be their favorite uncle if they did.
Unregistered 06:48 PM 01-06-2012
I am so glad you term. I use to teach and I had a 6 year old like this. He smiled when he hurt people. He tried to harm me, my assistant and several of my students (thankfully he was not able to while in my room). He would say terrible things. He was not right! He did things later at our school that made me cringe. There should be more help for children like this. His family loved him, but they were scared of him and were just not sure were to turn. They had limited resources. He has already harmed many animals, and several children. When will enough be enough!
Unregistered 06:55 PM 01-06-2012
I'm hoping you really did call and not just saying you did. I'm sure you don't want to get involved but let me tell you what could happen if you don't... My mother ran a daycare (this was about 15 years ago) She had a boy who had severe emotional problems.One day when she was making lunch he was standing behind her and said" I just want you to know that if you put that knife down,I would like to slit your neck B*&^%!!!
Same story,mean to adults,kids scared of him,liked to kill small animals.
My mom terminated him that day,I told her to call the police but everyone in the family kept saying"Oh,he's so young,you cant do that"
Well guess who set his whole house on fire 5 years later killing his mom,step-dad and two new sisters.You guessed it. He was pure evil,you could just see it in his eyes.
Same story,mean to adults,kids scared of him,liked to kill small animals.
My mom terminated him that day,I told her to call the police but everyone in the family kept saying"Oh,he's so young,you cant do that"
Well guess who set his whole house on fire 5 years later killing his mom,step-dad and two new sisters.You guessed it. He was pure evil,you could just see it in his eyes.
Mary Poppins 08:02 PM 01-06-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm hoping you really did call and not just saying you did.
I'm hoping you really did call and not just saying you did.
Whatever. After all of this I don't appreciate being condescended to.
Christian Mother 08:56 PM 01-06-2012
I am speechless..What a horror story!! Mary....it's the toughest thing you had to do...I believe you did what you had to do bc you love this family and care only to help. What a nightmare...
That mom...she is placing blame on her self. I am willing to bet that she feels very responsible and is ready to take the blame or place the blame entire on it being accidental bc she can't face the fact that her son has emotional problems. She is in complete denial and it is just way to easy for her to make excuses up as to what happened. Dcb will be learning pretty soon here that he can do no wrong bc mom will cover for him. She is teaching him that there are no consequences to his actions.
I am totally scared for that baby girl (2 yr old sister). Little ones get into everything and they like to push the envelope. I work with them every day...What happens if his little sister makes him mad?
That mom...she is placing blame on her self. I am willing to bet that she feels very responsible and is ready to take the blame or place the blame entire on it being accidental bc she can't face the fact that her son has emotional problems. She is in complete denial and it is just way to easy for her to make excuses up as to what happened. Dcb will be learning pretty soon here that he can do no wrong bc mom will cover for him. She is teaching him that there are no consequences to his actions.
I am totally scared for that baby girl (2 yr old sister). Little ones get into everything and they like to push the envelope. I work with them every day...What happens if his little sister makes him mad?
Solandia 03:37 AM 01-07-2012
I can't really blame the mom for sticking her head in the sand about it, I mean really, who wants to be blamed for creating a sociopath? Because many, MANY people truly believe that kids cannot be born sociopathic...that no one is born evil...that these abominations are created by a lack of love, affection, some event or trigger in their life....
Therefore, it must the parent's fault. If the mom knows this little guy is in a loving home, has had a normal babyhood & childhood, then it stands to reason (by the above philosophy) that he cannot be a sociopath-in-training.
***this is not MY opinion, just saying I have gotten into arguments with friends/schoolmates on this subject more than once***
There is a book, The Sociopath Next Door, very enlightening and an easy read.
Therefore, it must the parent's fault. If the mom knows this little guy is in a loving home, has had a normal babyhood & childhood, then it stands to reason (by the above philosophy) that he cannot be a sociopath-in-training.
***this is not MY opinion, just saying I have gotten into arguments with friends/schoolmates on this subject more than once***
There is a book, The Sociopath Next Door, very enlightening and an easy read.
mommacat 09:52 PM 01-07-2012
If mom continues to deny the problem and reward ,"the poor boy" she's going to end up losing her daughter to another "accident" or to foster care. You did the only thing you could do.I pray your state has a good system in place to deal with this.Stay strong.
wdmmom 12:57 PM 01-12-2012
Did OP get the little sister back or did the family leave all together?
Mary Poppins 01:50 PM 01-12-2012
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
Did OP get the little sister back or did the family leave all together?
She was here all week and DCB started counseling today. I even called and checked with his school to confirm. DCM and I had a loooong talk and I showed her some info on the signs of a sociopathic child and she agreed that he has several of the signs. Then I told her about my own brother and we cried and hugged. Did OP get the little sister back or did the family leave all together?
She is handling it better than I thought and I'm so glad I still have dcg, she is a doll. And I'm glad I can support dcm and dcb (at a safe distance).
She hasn't asked yet if he can return but I expect she will eventually, she loves my dc and has said so numerous times. I'm not sure how I feel. He would have to be in counseling a loooong time before I would let him here again, I think.