Daycare Withholding Information

My ex wife and I got divorced about a year ago. In the divorce order, I am required to pay her directly a certain percentage of the monthly cost of the day care given that she provides me with copies of receipts. All was ok in the begining, I was getting 4 receipts every month, then it cut back to one receipt for the whole month. I started to get an inkling that the receipts were fake. The receipts that are given to me are the basic kind you can buy anywhere that sells office supplies, so they're easy to make up. Long story short, every month the daycare costs seem to be rising and whenever I ask the daycare how much his weekly rate is, they tell me they cannot give me that information and I'm only allowed information about Tuesdays and Fridays which are the days I pick up my son. They claim they are only not telling me because my ex told them not to share any information with me regarding payment. Sounds fishy right? I've told them numerous times that I feel that they are taking her side by not providing me with this information and they insist they are doing nothing wrong. They do not want to tell me anything about the payment history, I had to ask them for 4 months for his attendance records, it's a never ending story with them.

My point is, can they legally withhold this information from me? I live in Florida where there is no "primary" and "secondary" parent so shouldn't we both be required to sign paperwork and have any information requested regarding our child?

[Blackcat31]

Personally I would ONLY provide information to the parent who enrolled the child and signed all the enrollment paper work.

I would ONLY give information to the non-custodial parent if there were court orders or custody papers telling me I was required to do so.

It is NOT your child care providers responsibility to keep track of total costs or amounts you paid or your ex-wife paid. The child care is ONLY obligated to supply you (or the paying parent) with a W-10 form and even that is suppose to be given to the provider by the parents. The provider is only required to give her EIN or SS# on the form.

I am sorry you are feeling like you are getting the run around but it sounds like your child's provider is doing what she is suppose to be doing which is ONLY communicating and giving information to the parent who enrolled and signed the contract.

If you did not directly pay the provider, she is not obligated to tell you anything.

If I were you, I would get the paperwork that details who is responsible for what costs and take your ex to court to ensure she is doing as the courts directed her to do.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

Personally I would ONLY provide information to the parent who enrolled the child and signed all the enrollment paper work.

I would ONLY give information to the non-custodial parent if there were court orders or custody papers telling me I was required to do so.

It is NOT your child care providers responsibility to keep track of total costs or amounts you paid or your ex-wife paid. The child care is ONLY obligated to supply you (or the paying parent) with a W-10 form and even that is suppose to be given to the provider by the parents. The provider is only required to give her EIN or SS# on the form.

I am sorry you are feeling like you are getting the run around but it sounds like your child's provider is doing what she is suppose to be doing which is ONLY communicating and giving information to the parent who enrolled and signed the contract.

If you did not directly pay the provider, she is not obligated to tell you anything.

If I were you, I would get the paperwork that details who is responsible for what costs and take your ex to court to ensure she is doing as the courts directed her to do.

I would have to say the same, however in my state of CA if you wanted to come in and fill out state papers giving you the right to all of this information I would have to let you. With or without a custody agreement.

the only way that I could deny you, if there was court docs saying that you had no rights to your child or something to this degree....

I hope that things work out for you...

[itlw8]

You could go back to court or a mediator and ask for a bill from the childcare and a reciept signed by them.

[JenNJ]

Take your ex back to court. It sounds bad, but legally if you didn't sign the payment paperwork, they don't have to share.

[Hunni Bee]

I agree with previous posters. If you are paying your ex-wife directly for daycare, and she is the one whom you are believing to have made up the receipts, then your issue is with her.

You are not paying the daycare, so they really dont have to share payment information with you.

I agree with Jen, if you believe you're being taken by your ex-wife, you should go back to court

[Willow]

I have to disagree guys.

If he's court ordered to pay a percentage of child care costs, he's entitled to see what he's paying a percentage of, hours included, and be notified of any rate increases.


OP - if you are skeptical or are getting no reasonable explanation of the monthly increases I would get a mediator involved. While you may not have any right to alter the childcare agreement since you're not the one who contracted for care you should have a right to anything involving your direct and court ordered involvement - ie. the expense of the services provided and time being used.

They cannot legally just throw any number they want at you and just expect you to fork over whatever they want with zero explanation.

If the provider is telling you she won't even tell you what the basic rate is something ridiculous is going on without a doubt. That's not right. If something fishy is uncovered I'd not only hold mom accountable and get your money back but make sure your child gets set up with a new, honest and unbiased provider.

Thanks for the replies. I can honestly see both sides of the deal here. While I understand my ex is the one who signed the enrollment paperwork, would the same issue apply if we were married? I feel that the main issue here is that since we're not married anymore, they dont want to get inthe middle. But are they not getting in the middle when they call her to report when I come to pick up my child on days I'm supposed to have him? This particular daycare doesn't even enforce their sign in/out policy!

Just to give you guys more info, after some prodding I was able to get a copy of the contact my ex signed and my son's attendance records. And according to my calculations, last month should have been $300 and I received a receipt for $570. Since school had 2 weeks off for the holidays, the daycare charged extra for the 2 weeks to cover field trip costs and such. Had he actually gone to school those 2 weeks, the monthly rate would have been $570, but his attendance records prove he never went to school those 2 weeks so that just proves to me that the receipts I'm getting are fake. Now, I understand that is not the school's issue that I'm being provided with fake receipts, I'm not asking them to keep track of my percentage all I want to know is how much the previous month was and no one can seem to tell me that. Why? Because my ex told them not to becuase of the obvious scheme she's trying to pull.

They have a copy of our divorce order where it states that I'm supposed to pay a percentage of the monthly daycare costs, shouldn't that be enough for them to disclose this information to me? I'd love to hear back.

[saved4always]

Some daycares charge whether the child is there or not....they charge for the spot being held for the child regardless of that child's attendance. If you have not already, you may want to make sure what the policy is for payment of days not in attendance before assuming that the receipt is fake.

[Crystal]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks for the replies. I can honestly see both sides of the deal here. While I understand my ex is the one who signed the enrollment paperwork, would the same issue apply if we were married? I feel that the main issue here is that since we're not married anymore, they dont want to get inthe middle. But are they not getting in the middle when they call her to report when I come to pick up my child on days I'm supposed to have him? This particular daycare doesn't even enforce their sign in/out policy!

Just to give you guys more info, after some prodding I was able to get a copy of the contact my ex signed and my son's attendance records. And according to my calculations, last month should have been $300 and I received a receipt for $570. Since school had 2 weeks off for the holidays, the daycare charged extra for the 2 weeks to cover field trip costs and such. Had he actually gone to school those 2 weeks, the monthly rate would have been $570, but his attendance records prove he never went to school those 2 weeks so that just proves to me that the receipts I'm getting are fake. Now, I understand that is not the school's issue that I'm being provided with fake receipts, I'm not asking them to keep track of my percentage all I want to know is how much the previous month was and no one can seem to tell me that. Why? Because my ex told them not to becuase of the obvious scheme she's trying to pull.

They have a copy of our divorce order where it states that I'm supposed to pay a percentage of the monthly daycare costs, shouldn't that be enough for them to disclose this information to me? I'd love to hear back.

If there is a court order stating your percentage of the fees, I would request a contract be drawn up between you and the provider for your share of cost. I wuld then pay directly to the provider and request a reciept from her so that you can provide a copy to the court, shuld an issue arise and your ex says you are not paying your share of cost.

I would let the daycare know that if they are unwilling to do so, because the contract is with your ex, then they can continue to have her pay, but you will not pay your share until you have a separate contract and pay them directly OR they agree to provide you with an itemized invoice each month.

[itlw8]

It is possible she told them he would be there during those 2 weeks so she would owe even if he did not attend.

It is possible it had to be reserved months ago before holiday plans were made.

If she did not say he would be there for extended daycare those 2 weeks then those weeks should be at the normal afterschool rate.

[Willow]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

They have a copy of our divorce order where it states that I'm supposed to pay a percentage of the monthly daycare costs, shouldn't that be enough for them to disclose this information to me? I'd love to hear back.

Yes.

But what would be more important would be something in writing stating this providers regular rate AND a copy of her policies. Even if provider is in direct contact with you she could shoot you some bunk number just like mom may be doing and still have you paying a larger percentage of the bill than you should be.

Does this provider have a website you could look up and view her policies? Or a publically listed phone number so you can have someone call posing as a potential new family and ask what her rates are? Maybe ask some questions about her holiday/vacation/sick policies so it's clear whether she charges regardless of attendance or not? If she tells your caller that her rate is $3/hour or $130/week or whatever and she doesn't charge for time a child isn't scheduled and then mom proceeds to charge you much much more than that it would definitely be grounds to take her back to mediation/court.

Would be tantamount to fraud on both their parts otherwise. I would think they could both get in lots of trouble for trying to pull something like that.

I am a non custodial parent. My ex and I are back in court on a child support revision and the one thing that has me very concerned is her refusal to provide my child's daycare schedule to me. I have reason to believe that she is having the daycare center falsify records to bill me for more time, for either non work related daycare and for days that the child is in the care of grandparents or stepdad and not at the daycare. She gets very weird when I ask for the attendence schedule and says I have no right to that information....but I can't help but wonder, why would she care about providing the schedule to me unless she is falsifying the records to get more money?

[spedmommy4]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am a non custodial parent. My ex and I are back in court on a child support revision and the one thing that has me very concerned is her refusal to provide my child's daycare schedule to me. I have reason to believe that she is having the daycare center falsify records to bill me for more time, for either non work related daycare and for days that the child is in the care of grandparents or stepdad and not at the daycare. She gets very weird when I ask for the attendence schedule and says I have no right to that information....but I can't help but wonder, why would she care about providing the schedule to me unless she is falsifying the records to get more money?

Address it in court. Let the judge know that you have been concerned about the fluctuating costs and would like to see if their is a way to get receipts, or a copy of the contract that outlines policies/payments, directly from the provider. (So you can budget for your child's care) It's a reasonable request.

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am a non custodial parent. My ex and I are back in court on a child support revision and the one thing that has me very concerned is her refusal to provide my child's daycare schedule to me. I have reason to believe that she is having the daycare center falsify records to bill me for more time, for either non work related daycare and for days that the child is in the care of grandparents or stepdad and not at the daycare. She gets very weird when I ask for the attendence schedule and says I have no right to that information....but I can't help but wonder, why would she care about providing the schedule to me unless she is falsifying the records to get more money?

It sounds like you may be asking the wrong questions. It is possible that your childs daycare does not attach attendance to tuition rate; like many of us.

** Flat rate tuition is common place as it provides the most stable income for small providers. **

The information you want is your contracted tuition rate, not attendance schedule. You should have that information on your copy of the signed childcare contract if you also have contracted for services with the same provider.

Requesting a childs attendance schedule during the other parents time may imply that you intend to micromanage the other parents lifestyle or use that information to somehow become high conflict. While most likely not true in your case, you'd be shocked at how many times this situation comes into play.

[Cat Herder]

Another thought: If your childs daycare uses the sliding fee "contracted hours" model, you can respectfully request to have reimbursed childcare expenses limited to the rate of 9 hours per day.

** That gives 8 working hours and 30 minute, each way, commute time. It would prevent marathon stays (which benefits the child the most ) and unexpected costs for extra services. If either parent requires more on their time, they foot their own bill. If either requires less, they have the savings to use during the extra time spent with the kiddo (benefits the child the most )

If presented correctly (no emotions, calm/rational, mutually beneficial approach), it really is the most fair option for both parents and especially the child. I can't imagine a scenario where a judge would see it as anything other than fair.

[daycarediva]

Originally Posted by spedmommy4

Address it in court. Let the judge know that you have been concerned about the fluctuating costs and would like to see if their is a way to get receipts, or a copy of the contract that outlines policies/payments, directly from the provider. (So you can budget for your child's care) It's a reasonable request.

I would ask your lawyer for a copy of the child care contract with weekly rate outlined. She legally has to prove how much she is paying.

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

It sounds like you may be asking the wrong questions. It is possible that your childs daycare does not attach attendance to tuition rate; like many of us.

** Flat rate tuition is common place as it provides the most stable income for small providers. **

The information you want is your contracted tuition rate, not attendance schedule. You should have that information on your copy of the signed childcare contract if you also have contracted for services with the same provider.

Requesting a childs attendance schedule during the other parents time may imply that you intend to micromanage the other parents lifestyle or use that information to somehow become high conflict. While most likely not true in your case, you'd be shocked at how many times this situation comes into play.

YES, exactly this. My parents pay a contracted set rate.

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

Another thought: If your childs daycare uses the sliding fee "contracted hours" model, you can respectfully request to have reimbursed childcare expenses limited to the rate of 9 hours per day.

** That gives 8 working hours and 30 minute, each way, commute time. It would prevent marathon stays (which benefits the child the most ) and unexpected costs for extra services. If either parent requires more on their time, they foot their own bill. If either requires less, they have the savings to use during the extra time spent with the kiddo (benefits the child the most )

If presented correctly (no emotions, calm/rational, mutually beneficial approach), it really is the most fair option for both parents and especially the child. I can't imagine a scenario where a judge would see it as anything other than fair.

and they pay extra for anything over 10 hours, most centers are open 6-6, so this would qualify as additional/unneeded expense.

Also, do you know what child care the child attends? Can you call as an interested parent and ask what their rates are?

[hwichlaz]

I'm in California. I have to give information about my facility and the child to both parents...but financial information/contract is between me and the party I'm contracted with. So I'd give you all of the info you wanted about your child's day and a copy of my policies and let you see your child's records...but the actual contract and money issues only get discussed with the person that pays me.

In the State of Michigan if you have Joint Legal custody, and not physical custody, you have a right to request all documentation from healthcare, daycare, babysitter, and schools, period. If your daycare cantor supply you with documentation it is the recipients of the daycare supports responsibility to supply that information. You might want to hire an attourney to subpoena your ex to provide checks or cancelled checks form there bank or financial institution. It is the responsibility of daycare or babysitters to notify both parents of increase in charges. It is your legal right to have equal access to these institutions.

[Cat Herder]

"Confidentiality Policy

Information concerning you, your child, and your family is private and personal. Trust and confidentiality are essential to building trusting relationships. We are committed to maintaining your privacy and protecting your personal information. We will not disclose information except as required by law or when there is a threat to the health and safety of the individuals and families we serve."

*All non-custodial parents, please, get us legal paperwork instead of threatening or harassing us. We are not the enemy. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place and required to follow confidentiality rules with the parents we contract with. If you were not there for the interview, enrollment and we have never met you, that is your fault. Just get the paperwork and stay involved in your childs life regularly. We have the same goal for your child, both parents fully engaged. We don't want to withold information, we just don't want chaos in our private living rooms or in front of your children.

[flying_babyb]

Originally Posted by Willow

Yes.

Does this provider have a website you could look up and view her policies? Or a publically listed phone number so you can have someone call posing as a potential new family and ask what her rates are? Maybe ask some questions about her holiday/vacation/sick policies so it's clear whether she charges regardless of attendance or not? If she tells your caller that her rate is $3/hour or $130/week or whatever and she doesn't charge for time a child isn't scheduled and then mom proceeds to charge you much much more than that it would definitely be grounds to take her back to mediation/court.

I would do this!

[Mom2Two]

OP

1. I would refuse to pay on anything other than a detailed, itemized receipt on company letterhead, that shows what SHE paid them, then pay your part of that. For any other kind of receipt, just. don't. pay. Let it be her problem and take YOU to court. Your stance would be reasonable--it's her that is being unreasonable. No one is expected to honor an unoffical looking receipt.

For all you know, she's on state assist and paying NOTHING.

2. On knowing attendance, check your state laws and your parenting plan/custody agreement. Ours says that a parent has the first right of caring for the child (my ds when he was little). In other words, my ex was always in his rights if he picked up from daycare--he always had the right to care for our son above and beyond daycare. You may find that this is the law for your state, as it is for ours.

3. ITA on checking the daycare policies. How hard can it be to get a copy of that? I email one out to anyone who calls after a little phone vetting, that's not hard to pass.

[hwichlaz]

Rarely does attendance have anything to do with how much you pay. It's like renting a house. You pay the rent no matter how many times you stay over at a girlfriend's house. Because of this, the house is there waiting for you when you get back to it.

Daycare is the same. You pay for a spot to be held for your use, regardless of attendance. I know very few providers that treat regular clients as drop-ins.

Originally Posted by hwichlaz

I'm in California. I have to give information about my facility and the child to both parents...but financial information/contract is between me and the party I'm contracted with. So I'd give you all of the info you wanted about your child's day and a copy of my policies and let you see your child's records...but the actual contract and money issues only get discussed with the person that pays me.

What if the daycare facility gave out contract/payment information to the other party can the facility be sued??

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What if the daycare facility gave out contract/payment information to the other party can the facility be sued??

Who did they give info to?
What state are you in?