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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Might Be Gifted, Now What.........
Country Kids 02:15 PM 11-22-2011
So I've posted about a child that is hard to manage especially at naptime!!! Well reading another poster with a child that is hard to manage and it was mentioned about the child being gifted. Well, I and the parents think that maybe the case here, yet to me it doesn't matter. You don't behave as bad as this. Had an older sibling that was like that at this age, very gifted but is the sweetest child ever!!!!

This child will yell at me, other parents, and use not foul language but we'll just say potty talk. The child knows its wrong but thinks its funny. I have been slapped, kicked, hit by this child all with laughter following. Does not do this with parents though. Siblings saw child acting out yesterday and both looked at each other and then me and said "******* would never do that at home!!!! ******* would be in so much trouble if they did that. Parents do a time out and then if that doesn't work a spanking from what I can gather.

I'm going to have to have child nap in pnp just so I can get some kind of break during the day. If the child is out its just a constant battle to keep them from running around, not screaming, etc. Child is in a pnp right now and finally fell asleep after 1 1/2 hours of screaming, yelling, etc.

Had a call for CCR&R today and the lady actually said just keep the child up doing arts, crafts, games, quiet things but not to battle about naptime. She thought is was awful that I was working 10 1/2 hours straight but then suggests this!!!!

So even if the child is gifted can they not learn how to behave? Is that the latest thing parents are going to get to use, instead of a child having ADD, Autism, or something like that they will be able to say "my child is gifted, they can't control themselves."

Sorry this has turned into a vent but I'm curious how to you train a child that may be gifted how to behave?
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cheerfuldom 02:18 PM 11-22-2011
If what you are doing is not working, perhaps your program is not the right fit. To me, it doesn't matter if the child is considered gifted or any other label, if they are not behaving and fitting in here, than they just can't stay, period. I'm sorry, I wish I had some answers for. I just don't understand why you are tolerating such aggressive behavior. I would never let a child slap me. If for some reason I could not control the behavior, then the family would be terminated.
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Country Kids 02:42 PM 11-22-2011
I've had the child for over a year before this behavior started. Had the normal behavior problems but nothing like this!!!!! Now its like a light switch, on and off with the behaviors and 95% of the time its a nap!
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Christian Mother 04:08 PM 11-22-2011
I wonder if the reason why your little guy won't lay down is bc he isn't tired. I have a little guy here who's mom can not get him to nap for her and he wouldn't go down for bed til 10:30pm if not later. Def. needed a nap during the day but she could not get him to lay down. Here it was the same thing. She wanted me to take him even if he wasn't sleeping and i told her that I don't offer that type of program so she'd pick him up just as I would be laying down the others for nap. Then prob. 4 months into care she wanted to try naping and it didn't work out that first time as he would scream cry and climb out of pnp. So, I got him up and told texted mom I couldn't get him to nap today so she had to pick him up after an hr. We tried again 2 months later after then when on a trip and she was able to get him to nap for her out there. So we tried again and this time I was successful with getting him to sleep. It got better ever day. After 2 weeks transferred him to a big boy bed. And he was way better in a bed then pnp. I am firm here on my rules. If the child does not sleep here then they've out grown my program. Start documenting and also I would have a meeting w/parents as to what is going on so they know each day how nap time is going if they already don't know. I am sure your letting them know each day anyway. But there needs to be a plain of action going on between child/provider/and parent. Specially if the child is exscellated in hitting and slapping...with the giggling and laughing he is playing with you and it isn't bc he feels threatened he feels entitled to do so. That is not right. How old is this little guy...is he at the age where you can tell him "We are making a call to mom or dad right now and you are going to tell them exactly what you just did"... I don't know about you but I'd be having that parent show up right away to reprimand that child.
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nannyde 04:15 PM 11-22-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Had a call for CCR&R today and the lady actually said just keep the child up doing arts, crafts, games, quiet things but not to battle about naptime. She thought is was awful that I was working 10 1/2 hours straight but then suggests this!!!!
This is terrible advice.

The last thing you should be doing with a violent kid who is disrespectful is adult hosted special special when he should be alone and having a LONG afternoon nap of DEEP sleep.
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nannyde 05:12 PM 11-22-2011
I don't know what kind of services you offer so I can't really advise you on how to approach this. I can only say what I can offer regarding "gifted" children.

My service is CARE based. I'm not an educator. I don't do a developmentally appropriate program. I do good food, good friends, good exercise, awesome toys for awesome play, DEEP restorative sleep, excellent supervision, and a loving adult who CARES about the children both physically and emotionally.

So within what I offer..... if a child is gifted..... it doesn't have anything to do with what services I offer. Just like if they have blonde hair, brown skin, tall, short.... none of those things affect what I can offer them. A child who comes with some intellectual "gift" or physical "gift" would have the same bowl of stew that a child who came who was tall or had blonde hair. That child would be supervised the same whether they had excellent verbal skills or if they only spoke ten words. They would have the same daily walk whether they could count to a thousand or if they didn't know the concept of the number one.

Being "gifted" is a trust fund for the future of that child. It's something he or she will hopefully have access to or use when they ARE in an educational, physical, or arts setting.

In my setting I recognize and can help prosper a child who is gifted in respect, self control, patience, attentivness, loyalty, empathy, selflessness, volunteerism, work ethic, gentleness, kindness, confidence, and humor Those are the spokes of the gifted wheel that "I" can serve and prosper.

I can't serve the intellectually gifted. I'm not trained for that and I don't want to do that for a living. If a child is having PROFOUND behavioral issues due to their giftedness not being served then they NEED to be with real teachers who have an education and training to give THEM what they need. That is not my job and it would be a diservice to the child and my other day care kids to have that childs needs take us all over.

So if the child is violent and disrespectful.... it doesn't matter to me what the genesis of it is OR how to solve it for that childs best interest. If they are acting out because their gifted machine isn't being properly fed or if they are acting out because they are being poorly raised by inept parents who don't care....... in the end ... it's just a kid who is violent and disrespectful.

It's like that saying that goes something like: if you get killed by a 57 chevy or a 57 magnum....... your're still dead. The gifted bad behavior is the same 57 to me as the poorly raised 57 or the mental illness 57. It's all 57 to me.

I don't care for children that are violent and disrespectful. Doesn't matter why and it doesn't matter what is in their best interest. I don't do gifted crazy or bad behavior crazy.

I don't serve THAT kind of gifted. I don't serve intellectually gifted. I can only serve the gifted in the areas I spoke of above. Any other kind of gifted is beyond my "care" scope.

Giftedness is becoming the gateway to acceptance of really bad behavior in this generation. It's better than an ADD or ADHD label because it means that there isn't anything WRONG with the child....... they are actually blessed AND the adult gets to do MORE so the child can be all that they can be.

In a small child care setting you could go decades and not care for a single intellectually gifted child. The chances of really having one is only two percent. The chances of having one that the parents feel are gifted now is about 98 percent. Only the truly gifted child care providers will be able to figure out how to muddle thru those odds.

When you DO get an intellectually gifted kid you will KNOW it in your heart. You will feel that blessing and it will knock your socks off. When you sit side by side with greatness you are humbled by it even if it comes to you in a three foot tall three year old. I wouldn't spend a minute trying to figure out if this one is gifted. I would terminate that kid the FIRST time he raised his hands to me. I don't play that no matter why the kid is doing it.
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Crystal 06:26 PM 11-22-2011
I have to agree with Nan here. Even IF the child is gifted, it is not okay for him to abuse you. (except I wouldn't term on the first hit )
I'd recommend the parents contact the school district or a resource center and find "gifted" services for their child. "gifted" services are free.
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Kaddidle Care 06:45 PM 11-22-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Had a call for CCR&R today and the lady actually said just keep the child up doing arts, crafts, games, quiet things but not to battle about naptime. She thought is was awful that I was working 10 1/2 hours straight but then suggests this!!!!

So even if the child is gifted can they not learn how to behave? Is that the latest thing parents are going to get to use, instead of a child having ADD, Autism, or something like that they will be able to say "my child is gifted, they can control themselves."

Sorry this has turned into a vent but I'm curious how to you train a child that may be gifted how to behave?
The same way you train the others - you just need oodles of patience. You must constantly remind them of how others feel because they are in their own little world. They are in the "It's all about me" stage and they stay in it longer. Sometimes it causes more harm for the parents to know that the child is gifted.

I hate to say it but sometimes giftedness is a bit of a handicap. Academically it's a wonderful world but Socially, it's a rough road.

My oldest is gifted AND ADHD but I never let that become an excuse for poor behavior. It's all part of teaching them how to live in society.

I agree with nannyde - don't reward him with "special me time" because that's what he's after. Wear him out physically as best you can but if that doesn't work then you may have to consider letting him go.

How old is this child?
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laundrymom 07:50 PM 11-22-2011
So what is gifted? A hall pass for bad behavior? That's a load of crap. Highly intelligent or a little delayed, I don't care, but you will be nice and use your manners or you can sit your gifted rear in a gifted chair until you behave.
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mommiesherie 08:18 PM 11-22-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
This is terrible advice.

The last thing you should be doing with a violent kid who is disrespectful is adult hosted special special when he should be alone and having a LONG afternoon nap of DEEP sleep.
Boy do I agree with you nannyde. The sad thing is all the early childhood classes I have taken would give the same advice as the ccr&r did her. I don't think that its ever appropriate to reward bad behavior like that.
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mommiesherie 08:27 PM 11-22-2011
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
So what is gifted? A hall pass for bad behavior? That's a load of crap. Highly intelligent or a little delayed, I don't care, but you will be nice and use your manners or you can sit your gifted rear in a gifted chair until you behave.
That's waaaay to funny!!! I sooo agree! My little demon I mean gifted child spends most of his day in mt gifted spot. Lol
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mommiesherie 08:39 PM 11-22-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
So I've posted about a child that is hard to manage especially at naptime!!! Well reading another poster with a child that is hard to manage and it was mentioned about the child being gifted. Well, I and the parents think that maybe the case here, yet to me it doesn't matter. You don't behave as bad as this. Had an older sibling that was like that at this age, very gifted but is the sweetest child ever!!!!

This child will yell at me, other parents, and use not foul language but we'll just say potty talk. The child knows its wrong but thinks its funny. I have been slapped, kicked, hit by this child all with laughter following. Does not do this with parents though. Siblings saw child acting out yesterday and both looked at each other and then me and said "******* would never do that at home!!!! ******* would be in so much trouble if they did that. Parents do a time out and then if that doesn't work a spanking from what I can gather.

I'm going to have to have child nap in pnp just so I can get some kind of break during the day. If the child is out its just a constant battle to keep them from running around, not screaming, etc. Child is in a pnp right now and finally fell asleep after 1 1/2 hours of screaming, yelling, etc.

Had a call for CCR&R today and the lady actually said just keep the child up doing arts, crafts, games, quiet things but not to battle about naptime. She thought is was awful that I was working 10 1/2 hours straight but then suggests this!!!!

So even if the child is gifted can they not learn how to behave? Is that the latest thing parents are going to get to use, instead of a child having ADD, Autism, or something like that they will be able to say "my child is gifted, they can control themselves."

Sorry this has turned into a vent but I'm curious how to you train a child that may be gifted how to behave?
I really do feel your pain!! Its sooo frustrating and you just want to do the best for the child and keep your sanity also. The gifted child I have has never raised his hand to me. Let me say he better never either. I will not ever allow that from any child. He would be out of here so fast it would make his head spin. Seriously his dad works a couple blocks from my house and If they didn't come immediately to pick him up I would march him right to his work. Lol. The more I learn about gifted children and the more I observe this child the more I KNOW this child is gifted. He does hit other children and he stays in trouble constantly for something. It is getting better because I am not giving him the opportunity to hit now. He is my shadow. I wish I had some advice for you. I do have empathy for you though. Don't put up with the hitting you though. I would sure put my foot down on that. A nap at my house is not an option. You will lay down and that's just the way it is. My gifted childs mom asked me one day how I get him to lay down for a nap. I said I lay him down and tell him its nap time and he is not to get up until I get him up and that's that. Lol. She said oh its difficult at home. I tell my parents that they listen to be because I mean what I say. . Keep us posted. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this!!
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Country Kids 08:57 PM 11-22-2011
This child is 3 soon to be 4.

I have actually called the parents several times to come and discipline the child. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Parents and I are very, very open and honest with this. They are bending over backwards to help me with the child.

Child was repremanded for something before parent could even leave today. Then was in a mood at pickup time.

Parents do want child to sleep while here. Child receives a reward if they are good for me the entire day. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It almost like this child becomes possessed when this happens, almost out of control to the point that I think am I dealing with the same child. Parents call the childs laugh "the evil" laugh that the child does.

I was shocked that CCR&R actually said that as we are required to give the child a rest time! I understand that children outgrow sleep but there is no reason to act up.

We walk about 1/2 an hour a day in the morning and today it was an hour and usually play for 1/2 an hour in the morning outside. On the weekends this child will sleep about 2 hours for a nap each day. Same time as my naptime but goes bonkers here.

My feeling is because parents do spank, the child does behave for them. The most the child can get from me is a time out so it doesn't matter to them. Its almost like whoopdee do a time out, big deal. I'm no threat to them for punishment!
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Christian Mother 10:42 PM 11-22-2011
What about a sticker chart? I have a little guy who has been acting up quiet a bit...not hitting but he's def. acts up often. For me it is because mom was pregnant and now that she has had baby he's having quiet a lot of behavior problems for attention. He doesn't care how he gets it as long as he gets it. So we've done stickers for him as well as I've bought popsicles (here it's still reasonable hot for one) and if he's napped good for me then he may pick which ever color out for snack. Then we have the sticker chart...no time outs and good behavior, being a good helper, not telling me no...that will get him stickers...He loves stickers!! I know it's a lot of work to keep on them but maybe that might work?
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Meyou 02:32 AM 11-23-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
This child is 3 soon to be 4.

I have actually called the parents several times to come and discipline the child. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Parents and I are very, very open and honest with this. They are bending over backwards to help me with the child.

Child was repremanded for something before parent could even leave today. Then was in a mood at pickup time.

Parents do want child to sleep while here. Child receives a reward if they are good for me the entire day. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It almost like this child becomes possessed when this happens, almost out of control to the point that I think am I dealing with the same child. Parents call the childs laugh "the evil" laugh that the child does.

I was shocked that CCR&R actually said that as we are required to give the child a rest time! I understand that children outgrow sleep but there is no reason to act up.

We walk about 1/2 an hour a day in the morning and today it was an hour and usually play for 1/2 an hour in the morning outside. On the weekends this child will sleep about 2 hours for a nap each day. Same time as my naptime but goes bonkers here.

My feeling is because parents do spank, the child does behave for them. The most the child can get from me is a time out so it doesn't matter to them. Its almost like whoopdee do a time out, big deal. I'm no threat to them for punishment!
Could the child have a food allergy?? Has anyone ever done a food journal to check? Drastically changing behavior can indicate an allergy especially to certain food dyes.

My dd is dye sensitive and goes CRAZY when she has certain things. Thank goodness the FDA is starting to ban them here in Canada.

If the child has good days and bad days with no rhyme or reason to them it could be something they're putting into him that is contributing to the behavior.
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Kaddidle Care 04:11 AM 11-23-2011
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
So what is gifted? A hall pass for bad behavior? That's a load of crap. Highly intelligent or a little delayed, I don't care, but you will be nice and use your manners or you can sit your gifted rear in a gifted chair until you behave.
You've got it!

One thing you have to be alert to is that there are a lot of gifted children/adults tend to be bipolar with huge mood swings. They need to learn how to deal with their anger in a different way, be it punching a pillow or screaming in one, or sitting in a corner and squeezing play doh. It's all in the re-direction.

The parents are using a form of punishment that you cannot use. If it works, great but you can't spank.

Not every child fits into group care as you know. Some need more one on one care.

I haven't seen Michael post on this thread. I'm interested to see his view on this.

Edit: Meyou's suggestion of a food diary is a great one. Food sensitivity can make them go bonkers - and here's a hint, it's often something they really love and crave!
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Unregistered 04:52 AM 11-23-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
So I've posted about a child that is hard to manage especially at naptime!!! Well reading another poster with a child that is hard to manage and it was mentioned about the child being gifted. Well, I and the parents think that maybe the case here, yet to me it doesn't matter. You don't behave as bad as this. Had an older sibling that was like that at this age, very gifted but is the sweetest child ever!!!!

This child will yell at me, other parents, and use not foul language but we'll just say potty talk. The child knows its wrong but thinks its funny. I have been slapped, kicked, hit by this child all with laughter following. Does not do this with parents though. Siblings saw child acting out yesterday and both looked at each other and then me and said "******* would never do that at home!!!! ******* would be in so much trouble if they did that. Parents do a time out and then if that doesn't work a spanking from what I can gather.

I'm going to have to have child nap in pnp just so I can get some kind of break during the day. If the child is out its just a constant battle to keep them from running around, not screaming, etc. Child is in a pnp right now and finally fell asleep after 1 1/2 hours of screaming, yelling, etc.

Had a call for CCR&R today and the lady actually said just keep the child up doing arts, crafts, games, quiet things but not to battle about naptime. She thought is was awful that I was working 10 1/2 hours straight but then suggests this!!!!

So even if the child is gifted can they not learn how to behave? Is that the latest thing parents are going to get to use, instead of a child having ADD, Autism, or something like that they will be able to say "my child is gifted, they can't control themselves."

Sorry this has turned into a vent but I'm curious how to you train a child that may be gifted how to behave?
Doesnt gifted mean HIGHLY smart? Im assuming you arent talking about SPECIAL NEEDS where a child may have trouble with self control, angry, sensory issues, etc.. Why would a child who is gifted have behavior troubles im not understanding really if he doesnt have a mental disability that would require special ways to handle his behavior, therpay, maybe meds, etc. then why would he be acting this way unless he just thinks its fun. Also if he behaves at home and not at daycare I doubt he does have a special need most children with special needs will act out anywhere and everywhere as they dont have much self control. I wish you luck and hope you can get to the bottom of his behavior.
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countrymom 06:29 AM 11-23-2011
I'm sorry, but why is the child gifted, did he get tested or is it because he knows alot of things. My now 7 yr old dd is the youngest of 4, so she knew how to read at 4, knew her letters at 3, walked at 9month she did everything early and my odd (now 13) is super smart, the girl gets almost perfect on her report card. But they don't behave like that.

just because your gifted doesn't mean he doesn't need a nap, maybe tell him its quiet time. I have kids who I tell them its quiet time and they are good with it, but the minute I tell them its nap time, omg they start crying.

if he is gifted he needs to evaluated and sent to a proper program, I have a feeling that he's not gifted, that he's a kid who is the youngest sibling and has picked up quick and has learned to be a bad child. For his bad behavior he needs to be sent to time out thats where the gifted program starts.
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Heidi 06:49 AM 11-23-2011
I didn't read the other responses yet;didn't want to be influenced by their great answers!

First of all, being gifted (IQ above 140*), or highly gifted (IQ above 160*), does not mean you get to spend your life going around hitting people, or ALWAYS marching to the beat of your own drummer. Some gifted children are compliant and sweet.

I think it's about 1st of all, looking at your capacity for working with this, and then looking for resources. The 2nd one can be VERY frustrating. Here is a link that may lead you to some:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/

At the very least, it will give you some insight.

I know there are some here that will say they don't want to hear about gifted children (often putting the word in parenthesis "gifted"). But, gifted does not mean better. It means the child probably learns faster, may be more sensitive, may be less sensative, may be asynchronous (which mean they may be academically or intellectually advanced, but my lack social skills or be behind physically).

He still needs to learn to live in the world. He still needs sleep, and discipline, and good meals. He may need some additional challenges (IE activites offered). You may be able to gain more compliance with some different strategies. But, some things are NOT up for debate, and he needs to learn that, too.

Birth-to-3 will not consider him for testing if you call them and say he is gifted. MY suggestion is that you tell them you have some concerns about his behavior, and you'd like to have him tested. They will not do an IQ test, because IQ tests are designed for adults, then modified for older children, but NOT designed for preschoolers.

How do I know so much? 2 of my sons have 140 IQ's, and we've been through it all. My 2nd son had may have been gifted, but he also had speech issues, fine and gross motor issues. He qualified for speech therapy, OT, PT, and TAG services. He had horrible grades, but awesome test scores and graduated a semester early. He is now a sniper in the army. His dream job, based mostly on the fact that he can do trig (the wrong way), in his head....

*IQ scores vary slightly by test
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Heidi 07:08 AM 11-23-2011
[
When you DO get an intellectually gifted kid you will KNOW it in your heart. You will feel that blessing and it will knock your socks off. When you sit side by side with greatness you are humbled by it even if it comes to you in a three foot tall three year old. I wouldn't spend a minute trying to figure out if this one is gifted. I would terminate that kid the FIRST time he raised his hands to me. I don't play that no matter why the kid is doing it.[/quote]

Nan-
I like the way you worded that!
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Country Kids 08:13 AM 11-23-2011
Over the holiday weekend I'm going to make some changes to my childcare. We are pretty routine but there can always be a few tweaks here and there.

I'm setting up a whole seperate area for this child for the melt down times-mainly nap. The pnp will be in a seperate room and as soon as its naptime the child will go in there. I won't give them the chance to lay with the other children and disrupt the routine there. This is the child who is the hardest!

Another child that has been hitting quiet a bit lately (another thread) will start being placed in a hula hoop and only have that area to play in when they hit. They can be seperated from the group for awhile and play by themselves.

Third child who instigates alot, tattles about kids when they haven't done a thing, and needs to quit mother henning will have the hula hoop area also.

Last but not least I am going to see how the week goes next week and if things don't improve I am going to have some parent meetings. I meet everyday with the one child that may be gifted but the other two have different parents picking up each day from the drop off parent. So I want to meet with the parents and have a fresh start with communication.

I'm tired of being worn down by children, my husband is sadden by the way I feel everyday, and I know with the support of him and all you ladies I will divide and concoure these children-
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MyAngels 08:29 AM 11-23-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Over the holiday weekend I'm going to make some changes to my childcare. We are pretty routine but there can always be a few tweaks here and there.

I'm setting up a whole seperate area for this child for the melt down times-mainly nap. The pnp will be in a seperate room and as soon as its naptime the child will go in there. I won't give them the chance to lay with the other children and disrupt the routine there. This is the child who is the hardest!

Another child that has been hitting quiet a bit lately (another thread) will start being placed in a hula hoop and only have that area to play in when they hit. They can be seperated from the group for awhile and play by themselves.

Third child who instigates alot, tattles about kids when they haven't done a thing, and needs to quit mother henning will have the hula hoop area also.

Last but not least I am going to see how the week goes next week and if things don't improve I am going to have some parent meetings. I meet everyday with the one child that may be gifted but the other two have different parents picking up each day from the drop off parent. So I want to meet with the parents and have a fresh start with communication.

I'm tired of being worn down by children, my husband is sadden by the way I feel everyday, and I know with the support of him and all you ladies I will divide and concoure these children-
Good luck with all of this . Keep us posted as to how it's going.
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nannyde 08:52 AM 11-23-2011
Originally Posted by bbo:
[
When you DO get an intellectually gifted kid you will KNOW it in your heart. You will feel that blessing and it will knock your socks off. When you sit side by side with greatness you are humbled by it even if it comes to you in a three foot tall three year old. I wouldn't spend a minute trying to figure out if this one is gifted. I would terminate that kid the FIRST time he raised his hands to me. I don't play that no matter why the kid is doing it.
Nan-
I like the way you worded that![/quote]

I've been "bessed" a few times and believe me.. you KNOW it when you see it.
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Tags:abuse, gifted, gifted child, won't sleep
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