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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>California Landlord Issues
daycare 01:05 PM 05-27-2014
Hey Ladies and Gents,
Those of you that have any knowledge about renting with running a home FDC, I could use some help here.
It looks like I have found a house, everything is going well, but now the Landlord is hung up on my DC. She is worried that she will be held liable for something should an accident or incident occur.
I do have 2 insurance policies in place, 1 renters and 1 that is DC insurance. They both carry very high coverage on them. I did tell her that I would be more than happy to name her on the policy and even raise the limits. She still seems to be concerned that she can be sued for something in anyway, shape or form.
Other than the handouts from Childcare law, I am trying to find information that states that the Landlord cannot deny me because of the DC and that unless it is direct neglect of the landlord, they cannot be sued by my childcare clients........
UGH.........I am a very honest person, but every party of me wishes that I would have lied about the childcare, moved in and then told them, because they cannot evict me due to the DC. But I would never sleep at night if I did that.....
HELP....anyone have documentation that I could provide for this Landlord.
Thanks so much
Those of you that have any knowledge about renting with running a home FDC, I could use some help here.
It looks like I have found a house, everything is going well, but now the Landlord is hung up on my DC. She is worried that she will be held liable for something should an accident or incident occur.
I do have 2 insurance policies in place, 1 renters and 1 that is DC insurance. They both carry very high coverage on them. I did tell her that I would be more than happy to name her on the policy and even raise the limits. She still seems to be concerned that she can be sued for something in anyway, shape or form.
Other than the handouts from Childcare law, I am trying to find information that states that the Landlord cannot deny me because of the DC and that unless it is direct neglect of the landlord, they cannot be sued by my childcare clients........
UGH.........I am a very honest person, but every party of me wishes that I would have lied about the childcare, moved in and then told them, because they cannot evict me due to the DC. But I would never sleep at night if I did that.....
HELP....anyone have documentation that I could provide for this Landlord.
Thanks so much
Sugar Magnolia 01:31 PM 05-27-2014
I dunno daycare, I think they can deny you legally if they choose to. I don't think you can force them to rent to you,.and it's not discrimination, because the denial isn't based on race, religion, etc. It's like pets, they have the right to say "no pets allowed" and I imagine they could site undue wear and tear on the property.
This really stinks for you daycare. I truly hope it works out.
Have you thought about opening a center, even a small one?
This really stinks for you daycare. I truly hope it works out.
Have you thought about opening a center, even a small one?
daycare 01:34 PM 05-27-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I dunno daycare, I think they can deny you legally if they choose to. I don't think you can force them to rent to you,.and it's not discrimination, because the denial isn't based on race, religion, etc. It's like pets, they have the right to say "no pets allowed" and I imagine they could site undue wear and tear on the property.
This really stinks for you daycare. I truly hope it works out.
Have you thought about opening a center, even a small one?
I believe in CA this is not the case.I dunno daycare, I think they can deny you legally if they choose to. I don't think you can force them to rent to you,.and it's not discrimination, because the denial isn't based on race, religion, etc. It's like pets, they have the right to say "no pets allowed" and I imagine they could site undue wear and tear on the property.
This really stinks for you daycare. I truly hope it works out.
Have you thought about opening a center, even a small one?
I did find this, but am having issues translating to understand what it means to me. Can you read this and tell me what you think it is saying.
I would love to open a center, I would just need to finish my education before I could do that. In CA we have to live in the home to operate a DC...
Blackcat31 01:48 PM 05-27-2014
Here is the California Landlord/Tenant rights book in a pdf file.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...k/catenant.pdf
Also here is what California law says about daycares in rentals:
Under California law, ALL single family residences, including rental apartments and condominiums, can be used as a day care facility because such is NOT considered a "business use of the property." California Health & Safety Code § Section 1597.43(a). This right cannot be restricted by a condominium HOA or a landlord. In fact, any lease provision prohibiting the operation of a day care facility is void as against public policy, but that does not mean the landlord doesn't have any rights.
A residential landlord who learns that a tenant is operating a family day care facility in their rental unit is permitted to require the tenant to pay an increased security deposit, but the requested security deposit still cannot exceed the maximum permitted by existing law (2 month's rent).
The landlord may also request proof that the operation is properly licensed. To operate a family day care facility out of a rental unit the tenant must inform the landlord of his or her intent to do so and acquire a license from the California Department of Social Services, who as a condition of issuing the permit will inspect the premises for code compliance and require the day care operator to receive 15 hours of training. Once approved, the operator will be permitted to provide day care for up to 6 children under age 10, and if the owner consents an additional 2 school aged children.
A day care facility operator must also either: (1) carry general liability insurance of $100,000 per occurrence and $300,000 aggregate; or (2) inform and have each parent acknowledge in writing that the day care facility is not insured, and that any liability insurance held by the landlord may not cover any claims or losses relating to the operation of the family day care facility. However, if the landlord otherwise requires each of its residents to carry renter's insurance, that requirement will still apply to the rental unit within which a family day care services are provided.
A family day care service provider operating out of a rental unit should also be aware that a landlord and the adjacent residents are not required to tolerate excessive noise that disrupts the peaceful and quiet enjoyment of the other tenants, or other conduct that causes excessive damage to the property. Day care service providers should inform parents to be respectful of the neighbors when dropping off and picking up their children and should plan relatively quiet activities that respect the needs of the other tenants (coloring, painting, home work help, etc.). Landlords, on the other hand, should exercise caution before sending a written warning and/or notice of eviction as such may be deemed to be a discriminatory act. Landlords would be wise to inform their other tenants to document the disturbance and send a written complaint letter so the landlord will have evidence to substantiate his actions.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...k/catenant.pdf
Also here is what California law says about daycares in rentals:
Under California law, ALL single family residences, including rental apartments and condominiums, can be used as a day care facility because such is NOT considered a "business use of the property." California Health & Safety Code § Section 1597.43(a). This right cannot be restricted by a condominium HOA or a landlord. In fact, any lease provision prohibiting the operation of a day care facility is void as against public policy, but that does not mean the landlord doesn't have any rights.
A residential landlord who learns that a tenant is operating a family day care facility in their rental unit is permitted to require the tenant to pay an increased security deposit, but the requested security deposit still cannot exceed the maximum permitted by existing law (2 month's rent).
The landlord may also request proof that the operation is properly licensed. To operate a family day care facility out of a rental unit the tenant must inform the landlord of his or her intent to do so and acquire a license from the California Department of Social Services, who as a condition of issuing the permit will inspect the premises for code compliance and require the day care operator to receive 15 hours of training. Once approved, the operator will be permitted to provide day care for up to 6 children under age 10, and if the owner consents an additional 2 school aged children.
A day care facility operator must also either: (1) carry general liability insurance of $100,000 per occurrence and $300,000 aggregate; or (2) inform and have each parent acknowledge in writing that the day care facility is not insured, and that any liability insurance held by the landlord may not cover any claims or losses relating to the operation of the family day care facility. However, if the landlord otherwise requires each of its residents to carry renter's insurance, that requirement will still apply to the rental unit within which a family day care services are provided.
A family day care service provider operating out of a rental unit should also be aware that a landlord and the adjacent residents are not required to tolerate excessive noise that disrupts the peaceful and quiet enjoyment of the other tenants, or other conduct that causes excessive damage to the property. Day care service providers should inform parents to be respectful of the neighbors when dropping off and picking up their children and should plan relatively quiet activities that respect the needs of the other tenants (coloring, painting, home work help, etc.). Landlords, on the other hand, should exercise caution before sending a written warning and/or notice of eviction as such may be deemed to be a discriminatory act. Landlords would be wise to inform their other tenants to document the disturbance and send a written complaint letter so the landlord will have evidence to substantiate his actions.
daycare 02:01 PM 05-27-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Here is the California Landlord/Tenant rights book in a pdf file.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...k/catenant.pdf
Also here is what California law says about daycares in rentals:
Under California law, ALL single family residences, including rental apartments and condominiums, can be used as a day care facility because such is NOT considered a "business use of the property." California Health & Safety Code § Section 1597.43(a). This right cannot be restricted by a condominium HOA or a landlord. In fact, any lease provision prohibiting the operation of a day care facility is void as against public policy, but that does not mean the landlord doesn't have any rights.
A residential landlord who learns that a tenant is operating a family day care facility in their rental unit is permitted to require the tenant to pay an increased security deposit, but the requested security deposit still cannot exceed the maximum permitted by existing law (2 month's rent).
The landlord may also request proof that the operation is properly licensed. To operate a family day care facility out of a rental unit the tenant must inform the landlord of his or her intent to do so and acquire a license from the California Department of Social Services, who as a condition of issuing the permit will inspect the premises for code compliance and require the day care operator to receive 15 hours of training. Once approved, the operator will be permitted to provide day care for up to 6 children under age 10, and if the owner consents an additional 2 school aged children.
A day care facility operator must also either: (1) carry general liability insurance of $100,000 per occurrence and $300,000 aggregate; or (2) inform and have each parent acknowledge in writing that the day care facility is not insured, and that any liability insurance held by the landlord may not cover any claims or losses relating to the operation of the family day care facility. However, if the landlord otherwise requires each of its residents to carry renter's insurance, that requirement will still apply to the rental unit within which a family day care services are provided.
A family day care service provider operating out of a rental unit should also be aware that a landlord and the adjacent residents are not required to tolerate excessive noise that disrupts the peaceful and quiet enjoyment of the other tenants, or other conduct that causes excessive damage to the property. Day care service providers should inform parents to be respectful of the neighbors when dropping off and picking up their children and should plan relatively quiet activities that respect the needs of the other tenants (coloring, painting, home work help, etc.). Landlords, on the other hand, should exercise caution before sending a written warning and/or notice of eviction as such may be deemed to be a discriminatory act. Landlords would be wise to inform their other tenants to document the disturbance and send a written complaint letter so the landlord will have evidence to substantiate his actions.
BC thank you for the post, can you tell me where you got that information from.Here is the California Landlord/Tenant rights book in a pdf file.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...k/catenant.pdf
Also here is what California law says about daycares in rentals:
Under California law, ALL single family residences, including rental apartments and condominiums, can be used as a day care facility because such is NOT considered a "business use of the property." California Health & Safety Code § Section 1597.43(a). This right cannot be restricted by a condominium HOA or a landlord. In fact, any lease provision prohibiting the operation of a day care facility is void as against public policy, but that does not mean the landlord doesn't have any rights.
A residential landlord who learns that a tenant is operating a family day care facility in their rental unit is permitted to require the tenant to pay an increased security deposit, but the requested security deposit still cannot exceed the maximum permitted by existing law (2 month's rent).
The landlord may also request proof that the operation is properly licensed. To operate a family day care facility out of a rental unit the tenant must inform the landlord of his or her intent to do so and acquire a license from the California Department of Social Services, who as a condition of issuing the permit will inspect the premises for code compliance and require the day care operator to receive 15 hours of training. Once approved, the operator will be permitted to provide day care for up to 6 children under age 10, and if the owner consents an additional 2 school aged children.
A day care facility operator must also either: (1) carry general liability insurance of $100,000 per occurrence and $300,000 aggregate; or (2) inform and have each parent acknowledge in writing that the day care facility is not insured, and that any liability insurance held by the landlord may not cover any claims or losses relating to the operation of the family day care facility. However, if the landlord otherwise requires each of its residents to carry renter's insurance, that requirement will still apply to the rental unit within which a family day care services are provided.
A family day care service provider operating out of a rental unit should also be aware that a landlord and the adjacent residents are not required to tolerate excessive noise that disrupts the peaceful and quiet enjoyment of the other tenants, or other conduct that causes excessive damage to the property. Day care service providers should inform parents to be respectful of the neighbors when dropping off and picking up their children and should plan relatively quiet activities that respect the needs of the other tenants (coloring, painting, home work help, etc.). Landlords, on the other hand, should exercise caution before sending a written warning and/or notice of eviction as such may be deemed to be a discriminatory act. Landlords would be wise to inform their other tenants to document the disturbance and send a written complaint letter so the landlord will have evidence to substantiate his actions.
daycare 02:06 PM 05-27-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
BC thank you for the post, can you tell me where you got that information from.
lol never mind I just saw your link on the topBC thank you for the post, can you tell me where you got that information from.
Sugar Magnolia 03:25 PM 05-27-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
I believe in CA this is not the case.
I did find this, but am having issues translating to understand what it means to me. Can you read this and tell me what you think it is saying.
I would love to open a center, I would just need to finish my education before I could do that. In CA we have to live in the home to operate a DC...
Excellent! Your state has better protection than mine. With what BC posted, looks like you are in the right here. I think you'll get your lease! I believe in CA this is not the case.
I did find this, but am having issues translating to understand what it means to me. Can you read this and tell me what you think it is saying.
I would love to open a center, I would just need to finish my education before I could do that. In CA we have to live in the home to operate a DC...
daycare 03:32 PM 05-27-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Excellent! Your state has better protection than mine. With what BC posted, looks like you are in the right here. I think you'll get your lease!
I sent her over all of that information and now I am just waiting to hear back from him. My heart hurts that some people can be so nice....My current landlord wrote me the nicest letter ever that melted my heart. I really hope all of this information seals the deal...I need a home...Excellent! Your state has better protection than mine. With what BC posted, looks like you are in the right here. I think you'll get your lease!
Sugar Magnolia 04:13 PM 05-27-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
I sent her over all of that information and now I am just waiting to hear back from him. My heart hurts that some people can be so nice....My current landlord wrote me the nicest letter ever that melted my heart. I really hope all of this information seals the deal...I need a home...
I bet that letter from your current landlord will seal the deal. Kindness really does matter in the world.I sent her over all of that information and now I am just waiting to hear back from him. My heart hurts that some people can be so nice....My current landlord wrote me the nicest letter ever that melted my heart. I really hope all of this information seals the deal...I need a home...
daycarediva 03:34 PM 05-27-2014
Can you operate as an LLC (limited liability company?) I am not that legal savvy, but I believe that you cannot be sued beyond your insurance maximum if that's the case.
My dh's business operates that way, and so do several other contractors we know.
One was sued when the power went out and the sump pump he installed, in a finished basement, failed. They got a payout from insurance but couldn't go after him personally, even though they tried.
My dh's business operates that way, and so do several other contractors we know.
One was sued when the power went out and the sump pump he installed, in a finished basement, failed. They got a payout from insurance but couldn't go after him personally, even though they tried.
daycare 03:42 PM 05-27-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Can you operate as an LLC (limited liability company?) I am not that legal savvy, but I believe that you cannot be sued beyond your insurance maximum if that's the case.
My dh's business operates that way, and so do several other contractors we know.
One was sued when the power went out and the sump pump he installed, in a finished basement, failed. They got a payout from insurance but couldn't go after him personally, even though they tried.
I dont know anything about that, but it would be worth looking into.Can you operate as an LLC (limited liability company?) I am not that legal savvy, but I believe that you cannot be sued beyond your insurance maximum if that's the case.
My dh's business operates that way, and so do several other contractors we know.
One was sued when the power went out and the sump pump he installed, in a finished basement, failed. They got a payout from insurance but couldn't go after him personally, even though they tried.
MarinaVanessa 12:25 PM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I dunno daycare, I think they can deny you legally if they choose to. I don't think you can force them to rent to you,.and it's not discrimination, because the denial isn't based on race, religion, etc. It's like pets, they have the right to say "no pets allowed" and I imagine they could site undue wear and tear on the property.
This really stinks for you daycare. I truly hope it works out.
Have you thought about opening a center, even a small one?
In CA there are laws that protect FCC. It is actually illegal in CA to deny renting to someone that wants to do FCC or to deny them if they later wanted to. All they can do is limit the amount of kids you care for to 6 (or 12 if large fcc) and request a higher security deposit (not more than 2 months worth of rent). I dunno daycare, I think they can deny you legally if they choose to. I don't think you can force them to rent to you,.and it's not discrimination, because the denial isn't based on race, religion, etc. It's like pets, they have the right to say "no pets allowed" and I imagine they could site undue wear and tear on the property.
This really stinks for you daycare. I truly hope it works out.
Have you thought about opening a center, even a small one?
Here is something else from publiccounsel.org
http://www.publiccounsel.org/tools/a...d-May-2010.pdf
Here is the wording to the actual codes:
CAL. HSC. CODE § 1597.40
California Health and Safety Code Section 1596.750
TwinKristi 12:28 PM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
In CA there are laws that protect FCC. It is actually illegal in CA to deny renting to someone that wants to do FCC or to deny them if they later wanted to. All they can do is limit the amount of kids you care for to 6 (or 12 if large fcc) and request a higher security deposit (not more than 2 months worth of rent).
Here is something else from publiccounsel.org
http://www.publiccounsel.org/tools/a...d-May-2010.pdf
I absolutely agree, but the problem is proving that they denied someone FOR the daycare alone. It's like an employer not hiring a pregnant woman, they can come up with multiple other reasons why they didn't hire them even if the real reason is the pregnancy which is illegal. KWIM?In CA there are laws that protect FCC. It is actually illegal in CA to deny renting to someone that wants to do FCC or to deny them if they later wanted to. All they can do is limit the amount of kids you care for to 6 (or 12 if large fcc) and request a higher security deposit (not more than 2 months worth of rent).
Here is something else from publiccounsel.org
http://www.publiccounsel.org/tools/a...d-May-2010.pdf
MarinaVanessa 01:15 PM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I absolutely agree, but the problem is proving that they denied someone FOR the daycare alone. It's like an employer not hiring a pregnant woman, they can come up with multiple other reasons why they didn't hire them even if the real reason is the pregnancy which is illegal. KWIM?
This is true, and legally if you are planning on renting a home or apartment and plan on moving your FCC there you have to give a 30 day notice of INTENT to do child care. So really we are supposed to tell them right away. Licensing requires a form to be filled out by the landlord and you have to have it on file. I absolutely agree, but the problem is proving that they denied someone FOR the daycare alone. It's like an employer not hiring a pregnant woman, they can come up with multiple other reasons why they didn't hire them even if the real reason is the pregnancy which is illegal. KWIM?
So even if you are having plans to not disclose your info until after you move in you can't do that here. It's a rock and a hard place to be in.
And then let's not even get into how hard the process of moving and licensing is. They want a form filled out and then they give you a new facility number (license number) and cancel your current one but can't do daycare in your current place without a licence for that home and can't do daycare in your new home until they come out and do a walk-through. It does depend on your licensor and I called mine to ask and she said she's willing to work with people and not issue a new facility number until AFTER the walk-through, so there's that at least.
TwinKristi 02:22 PM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
This is true, and legally if you are planning on renting a home or apartment and plan on moving your FCC there you have to give a 30 day notice of INTENT to do child care. So really we are supposed to tell them right away. Licensing requires a form to be filled out by the landlord and you have to have it on file.
So even if you are having plans to not disclose your info until after you move in you can't do that here. It's a rock and a hard place to be in.
And then let's not even get into how hard the process of moving and licensing is. They want a form filled out and then they give you a new facility number (license number) and cancel your current one but can't do daycare in your current place without a licence for that home and can't do daycare in your new home until they come out and do a walk-through. It does depend on your licensor and I called mine to ask and she said she's willing to work with people and not issue a new facility number until AFTER the walk-through, so there's that at least.
I have a daycare provider friend who's moving and from one house to another (not sure on rent or own) but she said she would have no lag time between houses as she has time at the new house before they're out of the old house. I don't know how that works, but she didn't seem to have a problem at all.This is true, and legally if you are planning on renting a home or apartment and plan on moving your FCC there you have to give a 30 day notice of INTENT to do child care. So really we are supposed to tell them right away. Licensing requires a form to be filled out by the landlord and you have to have it on file.
So even if you are having plans to not disclose your info until after you move in you can't do that here. It's a rock and a hard place to be in.
And then let's not even get into how hard the process of moving and licensing is. They want a form filled out and then they give you a new facility number (license number) and cancel your current one but can't do daycare in your current place without a licence for that home and can't do daycare in your new home until they come out and do a walk-through. It does depend on your licensor and I called mine to ask and she said she's willing to work with people and not issue a new facility number until AFTER the walk-through, so there's that at least.
Second Home 01:32 PM 05-27-2014
You may want to tread lightly . I do not think anyone would like to be told they can not deny you a daycare according to thd law . She may just find a different reason not to rent to you . I would stick with things that will benifit her . Long term rent , great upkeep of the home , free fire inspections , etc...