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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Licensing Saying NO Without a Good Reason ??
SunflowerMama 03:02 PM 10-13-2010
So some of you may remember when I posted about having my 2 dcks in pack n plays nap in my large utility/laundry room.

I emailed my licensing rep and she said it would be ok until she talks to her supervisor and if anything changes she will let me know. She said if it gets approved she would just have to come out and measure to add it to my licensed space.

In the meantime husband and I put $$ into dressing up the room and making it look more like a nap room.

Now she is saying they discussed it and "we feel that this room will not be a safe environment for a nap room and it is not part of your licensed capacity".

Can't they just come out and measure and add it to my capacity?!? What makes it unsafe?? They are in their pack n plays the entire time, can't reach anything from the pnp and are picked up and taken from the room as soon as they wake up.

I emailed her back and asked if they would reconsider if she came out and measured and added the space to my capacity. She told me initially that is what she could do but now it's one of the reasons they are saying no.

I don't get them at all.
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kendallina 03:32 PM 10-13-2010
Yup, they need to come out and add it to your capacity. If they still say you cannot use it, tell them to show you the exact regulation in the regs book. They won't be able to and you'll be able to have your room. Ugh, licensing!
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MarinaVanessa 03:42 PM 10-13-2010
I would totally ask them for specific reasons as to why it is not being approved. Make it clear that you want clarification as to the specific reasons why. If they say it's unsafe for example have them list the reasons why it's unsafe. This way if they say "unsafe because of the chemicalso/detergents" you can buy a cabinet and lock it or put these on the highest shelf and cover it with curtains or something. This way you can "fix" whatever issue they have with it.

Also ask them to list the specific reason why they now can't come out and measure to have the space added. And ask them to list the specific regulations that they are talking about, even going as far as to having them quote them or listing the section/page number/dection etc so that you can look them up.

I would do this in writing and ask for them to respond back in writing or e-mail only. I find that when I have an issue and they say it's "against regulations" and I ask them in a letter/e-mail to quote the regulation where it says this and to respond in writing only that all of a sudden it turns into "well, it's just not a good idea".

I had an issue with a swing that I wanted to use for the baby that I'm having next month when licensing said it wasn't allowed. I asked why and she said "It's against regulations". I know for a fact that regulations in CA list that bouncers and excersaucers as being against regulations but I had never seen anything about having a swing so I left it at that and then wrote her an e-mail asking her to list the specific regs and quote it. She called me and she got out was asking if I was available, introducing herself and then telling me that she was calling me because of my question. I just stopped her and asked to e-mail me back because I wanted the regulation in print. She paused for a second and then said "Well we don't like it". I told her to e-mail me and just tell me that in the e-mail to which she responded by saying that she just told me on the phone. So I just said "Okay so just so that I have it clear, there is no regulation against it but you guys just frown upon it" and she hesitantly said yes. As soon as we hung up the phone I shot her another e-mail just to recap our conversation about how she told me that it wasn't against regulations. I just did that to cover my butt in case someone from licensing came by and tried to say anything about it lol.

So again, ask for it in writing and ask for the specific reasons and regulations why they are saying no. Once you have that you could always change whatever they list and they'd have no reason to say no.
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momofboys 05:37 PM 10-13-2010
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I would totally ask them for specific reasons as to why it is not being approved. Make it clear that you want clarification as to the specific reasons why. If they say it's unsafe for example have them list the reasons why it's unsafe. This way if they say "unsafe because of the chemicalso/detergents" you can buy a cabinet and lock it or put these on the highest shelf and cover it with curtains or something. This way you can "fix" whatever issue they have with it.

Also ask them to list the specific reason why they now can't come out and measure to have the space added. And ask them to list the specific regulations that they are talking about, even going as far as to having them quote them or listing the section/page number/dection etc so that you can look them up.

I would do this in writing and ask for them to respond back in writing or e-mail only. I find that when I have an issue and they say it's "against regulations" and I ask them in a letter/e-mail to quote the regulation where it says this and to respond in writing only that all of a sudden it turns into "well, it's just not a good idea".

I had an issue with a swing that I wanted to use for the baby that I'm having next month when licensing said it wasn't allowed. I asked why and she said "It's against regulations". I know for a fact that regulations in CA list that bouncers and excersaucers as being against regulations but I had never seen anything about having a swing so I left it at that and then wrote her an e-mail asking her to list the specific regs and quote it. She called me and she got out was asking if I was available, introducing herself and then telling me that she was calling me because of my question. I just stopped her and asked to e-mail me back because I wanted the regulation in print. She paused for a second and then said "Well we don't like it". I told her to e-mail me and just tell me that in the e-mail to which she responded by saying that she just told me on the phone. So I just said "Okay so just so that I have it clear, there is no regulation against it but you guys just frown upon it" and she hesitantly said yes. As soon as we hung up the phone I shot her another e-mail just to recap our conversation about how she told me that it wasn't against regulations. I just did that to cover my butt in case someone from licensing came by and tried to say anything about it lol.

So again, ask for it in writing and ask for the specific reasons and regulations why they are saying no. Once you have that you could always change whatever they list and they'd have no reason to say no.
Wow, so this is YOUR baby, correct? The one you are pregnant with? Why does licensing have any say in what you do for your own children? It sounds like you did a good job though in covering all your bases & getting them to admit that it was really not part of any specific regulation. So frustrating on your part I am sure!
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QualiTcare 09:38 PM 10-13-2010
did you send her the pictures you posted here for us? that could change her mind. people have a negative reaction when they hear "laundry room" and "nap area" in the same sentence.

i think you should send the pics if you haven't already. it can't hurt.
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mac60 04:10 AM 10-14-2010
So if you are not allowed to use infant swings, bouncers, nor let an infant lay more than 30 minutes in a pack in play awake, just what/where are you supposed to do with an infant while in your care.
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SunflowerMama 04:24 AM 10-14-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
did you send her the pictures you posted here for us? that could change her mind. people have a negative reaction when they hear "laundry room" and "nap area" in the same sentence.

i think you should send the pics if you haven't already. it can't hurt.
I sent the pictures to her as soon as I showed them to you guys. I thought for sure those would make a difference. Guess not .
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MarinaVanessa 06:23 AM 10-14-2010
Originally Posted by mac60:
So if you are not allowed to use infant swings, bouncers, nor let an infant lay more than 30 minutes in a pack in play awake, just what/where are you supposed to do with an infant while in your care.
That was my initial question too . I haven't had an infant in my care that was under 6 months but I thought that I was covered because I had figured that if excersaucers and jumpers weren't allowed and I couldn't have an infant in a crib when it was not sleeping that I would just put any non-sitters/crawlers in a swing. I was surprised when this person said that I couldn't do that because I didn't remember it being listed as against the rules. But yes I'm covered and yes my baby and any other very small infants that I may have in my care in the future will sit in a swing when they are not either being held, changed, fed, sleeping or having tummy/back time.

Originally Posted by janarae:
Wow, so this is YOUR baby, correct? The one you are pregnant with? Why does licensing have any say in what you do for your own children? It sounds like you did a good job though in covering all your bases & getting them to admit that it was really not part of any specific regulation. So frustrating on your part I am sure!
Yes it was meant for my baby and yes it was very frustrating. But in any case like I said it's not in the regulations although they like to claim that they are. Unfortunately I live in CA and we have lots and lots of regulations. I wouldn't be able to have an excersaucer for my own child, for example, in any room that was used even partially for daycare. So even if I kept it in the kids room I could get cited for it because we sometimes go in there to play or to read.
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WImom 06:30 AM 10-14-2010
I'd send the pics of the room now. I would also ask them to show you where in the regs. it's says you can't use the room.

Good luck!
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AnythingsPossible 07:01 AM 10-14-2010
I can't even have babies in a different room to sleep, so it doesnt seem like an odd rule to me. Also, for us, any room that has a utility use, including the kitchen, can not be used in space capacity. I have a large room that houses the washer/dryer and had hoped to use it for SA, but couldn't. Don't think i will ever understand the rules they make!
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SilverSabre25 07:19 AM 10-14-2010
See...this thread holds several excellent reasons why I'm glad that my state (OH) doesn't require me to be licensed (doesn't even really offer it) unless I have more than 6 kids. I would hate, hate, HATE to be told that I couldn't use a perfectly reasonable space for nappiing, and hate even more to be told what I can and cannot do with my own dang children. That's just...infringing waaaay too far. And I'm noticing on that napping thread (the one about napping for 3 hours in the dark) that some states even mandate how long a child is allowed to sleep (Texas says no more than three hours)?
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mac60 08:11 AM 10-14-2010
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
See...this thread holds several excellent reasons why I'm glad that my state (OH) doesn't require me to be licensed (doesn't even really offer it) unless I have more than 6 kids. I would hate, hate, HATE to be told that I couldn't use a perfectly reasonable space for nappiing, and hate even more to be told what I can and cannot do with my own dang children. That's just...infringing waaaay too far. And I'm noticing on that napping thread (the one about napping for 3 hours in the dark) that some states even mandate how long a child is allowed to sleep (Texas says no more than three hours)?
Ditto....I even read in their rules that they tell you what size light bulbs to use in your home in specific spaces.....
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AfterSchoolMom 04:57 PM 10-14-2010
Amen! I feel the same way. Maybe I have a problem with authority, but I feel that though I have nothing to hide, no one should be able to tell me what to do with my own children, my own rooms, my own lightbulbs, etc. I'd have a really hard job not telling this woman to shove her regulations up her wazoo.

Did you post pics of the room after you finished it? I'd love to see.
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Former Teacher 06:09 PM 10-14-2010
This is why I have NO respect for licensing. I will NOT EVER again work for a center that is licensed.

Nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and fools.
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TomCopeland 01:09 PM 10-16-2010
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I would totally ask them for specific reasons as to why it is not being approved. Make it clear that you want clarification as to the specific reasons why. If they say it's unsafe for example have them list the reasons why it's unsafe. This way if they say "unsafe because of the chemicalso/detergents" you can buy a cabinet and lock it or put these on the highest shelf and cover it with curtains or something. This way you can "fix" whatever issue they have with it.

Also ask them to list the specific reason why they now can't come out and measure to have the space added. And ask them to list the specific regulations that they are talking about, even going as far as to having them quote them or listing the section/page number/dection etc so that you can look them up.

I would do this in writing and ask for them to respond back in writing or e-mail only. I find that when I have an issue and they say it's "against regulations" and I ask them in a letter/e-mail to quote the regulation where it says this and to respond in writing only that all of a sudden it turns into "well, it's just not a good idea".

I had an issue with a swing that I wanted to use for the baby that I'm having next month when licensing said it wasn't allowed. I asked why and she said "It's against regulations". I know for a fact that regulations in CA list that bouncers and excersaucers as being against regulations but I had never seen anything about having a swing so I left it at that and then wrote her an e-mail asking her to list the specific regs and quote it. She called me and she got out was asking if I was available, introducing herself and then telling me that she was calling me because of my question. I just stopped her and asked to e-mail me back because I wanted the regulation in print. She paused for a second and then said "Well we don't like it". I told her to e-mail me and just tell me that in the e-mail to which she responded by saying that she just told me on the phone. So I just said "Okay so just so that I have it clear, there is no regulation against it but you guys just frown upon it" and she hesitantly said yes. As soon as we hung up the phone I shot her another e-mail just to recap our conversation about how she told me that it wasn't against regulations. I just did that to cover my butt in case someone from licensing came by and tried to say anything about it lol.

So again, ask for it in writing and ask for the specific reasons and regulations why they are saying no. Once you have that you could always change whatever they list and they'd have no reason to say no.
I wish every provider would make a copy of this post and put in their files. This is probably the best example I have seen of how you should handle issues with licensing. When her licensor tells her she can't do something she responds by asking for a citation to a specific regulation. Perfect. Notice how licensors say, "you must do something" and then when challenged to produce the evidence, respond, "We'd like you to do something." A very different statement. A truly wonderful post.
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legomom922 05:04 PM 10-16-2010
Wheres the pics? I want to see them too!
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Tags:licensing rep, licensor, pack n play
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