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  #1  
Old 03-07-2013, 07:32 AM
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Default Here's Your Opportunity To Comment On "Universal Preschool" Proposed By Pres. Obama

I received this e-mail from the NAFCC - you'll note the link at the bottom to contact the White House, if anyone is interested.

Please join the National Association for Family Child Care (NAFCC) in applauding President Obama for the aggressive legislative agenda that he proposed during the State of the Union speech on February 12, 2013.

"In States that make it a priority to educate our youngest children...
studies show students grow up more likely to read and do math at grade level, graduate high school, hold a job, form more stable families of their own. We know this works. So let's do what works and make sure none of our children start the race of life already behind."

President Barack Obama
State of the Union, February 12, 2013


President Obama called on Congress to expand high-quality preschool for all children.

His proposal includes the following:

Cost sharing partnership with states to expand preschool to all low and moderate income four year olds who reside in families at or below 200% of poverty. He envisions expansion of publicly funded preschool programs for four year olds and expansion of Head Start for three year olds.

NAFCC supports the expansion of publicly funded preschool for four year olds and Head Start for three year olds and believes that accredited family child care providers should play an integral part in this expansion through contracting and partnerships.

States would be required to meet quality benchmarks that are linked to better outcomes for children, which include: state-level standards for early learning; qualified teachers for all preschool classrooms; and a plan to implement comprehensive data and assessment systems.

NAFCC Accreditation is recognized as the highest indicator that a family child care program is a quality environment. In states where Quality Rating Systems have been implemented, NAFCC Accreditation is often the "top" level in the rating system.

Preschool programs across the states would meet common and consistent standards for quality across all programs, including: well-trained teachers, who are paid comparably to K-12 staff; small class sizes and low adult to child ratios; a rigorous curriculum; comprehensive health and related services; and effective evaluation and review of programs.

The President will also launch a new Early Head Start-Child Care Partnership program.

NAFCC believes that accredited family child care homes are the most natural setting for our nation's youngest children. The low child adult ratio, home-like setting, and consistent care giver enable children to build trusting relationships that open up their curiosity to learning about themselves and their environment. Family child care partnerships with Early Head Start grantees are the perfect fit for children and providers. Through these partnerships, providers continue to develop their knowledge of young children through professional development, mentoring and coaching, and on-going evaluation and review.

NAFCC encourages members to reach out and share your ideas with President Obama and Congress to make sure family child care is central to this historic expansion in early care and education.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/su...s-and-comments

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Old 03-07-2013, 07:48 AM
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Years ago I was part of a family child care Head Start pilot project. We had to meet the same standards as HS. It only lasted 2 yrs. in my area. I do think it is still around, as I have read reference to it.

I am not sure how I feel about all the above info...some positive, some negative!
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:53 AM
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Barf.



The problem with sending one's opinion is he doesn't give a rip what the people think.

He has his own agenda and thinks he's always right about everything. You could have 100% of providers in this country screaming nay and he'd still claim the majority held his exact beliefs.

His attempts at more gun control are a good example of this. He claims it's something EVERYONE wants.....yet look at how the masses are storming firearm dealers to buy up more firearms and ammunition. Conceal/carry classes are maxing out and people are willing openly stating they'd rather go to jail that give up their rights.

Yet he completely ignores ALL of them.

There is no open discussion about anything. If he thinks it's so then it is.


Not sure if he's ignorant or just plain arrogant........either way he doesn't care about what the American people ACTUALLY want.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
Barf.



The problem with sending one's opinion is he doesn't give a rip what the people think.

He has his own agenda and thinks he's always right about everything. You could have 100% of providers in this country screaming nay and he'd still claim the majority held his exact beliefs.

His attempts at more gun control are a good example of this. He claims it's something EVERYONE wants.....yet look at how the masses are storming firearm dealers to buy up more firearms and ammunition. Conceal/carry classes are maxing out and people are willing openly stating they'd rather go to jail that give up their rights.

Yet he completely ignores ALL of them.

There is no open discussion about anything. If he thinks it's so then it is.


Not sure if he's ignorant or just plain arrogant........either way he doesn't care about what the American people ACTUALLY want.
You hit the nail on the head-same thing with Obamacare!
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
Barf.



The problem with sending one's opinion is he doesn't give a rip what the people think.

He has his own agenda and thinks he's always right about everything. You could have 100% of providers in this country screaming nay and he'd still claim the majority held his exact beliefs.

His attempts at more gun control are a good example of this. He claims it's something EVERYONE wants.....yet look at how the masses are storming firearm dealers to buy up more firearms and ammunition. Conceal/carry classes are maxing out and people are willing openly stating they'd rather go to jail that give up their rights.

Yet he completely ignores ALL of them.

There is no open discussion about anything. If he thinks it's so then it is.


Not sure if he's ignorant or just plain arrogant........either way he doesn't care about what the American people ACTUALLY want.
That should not stop you from voicing your opinion IMO. If you are against making these changes you cannot complain when they happen if you did not at least try to make your voice heard.

Whether any of us are for or against we should be letting our legislators know what we think, both on the state and national level.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MyAngels View Post
NAFCC believes that accredited family child care homes are the most natural setting for our nation's youngest children. The low child adult ratio, home-like setting, and consistent care giver enable children to build trusting relationships that open up their curiosity to learning about themselves and their environment. Family child care partnerships with Early Head Start grantees are the perfect fit for children and providers. Through these partnerships, providers continue to develop their knowledge of young children through professional development, mentoring and coaching, and on-going evaluation and review.

Explained:

Licensed home providers are too stupid to manage their own curriculum's or the children in their care alone....the government *has* to have their nose in everything or children everywhere will grow up morons who are unprepared to deal with the world as adults.

We need this, because no one but the government can raise happy, intelligent and successful people
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:07 AM
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That should not stop you from voicing your opinion IMO. If you are against making these changes you cannot complain when they happen if you did not at least try to make your voice heard.

Whether any of us are for or against we should be letting our legislators know what we think, both on the state and national level.

I don't disagree, nor was I trying to shoot the messenger love lol


Just venting more than anything.

I get so sick of hearing NO ONE in support of all his junk socialist agendas, everyone trying to stop him, and him continuing to plow through anyway.

I have NO CLUE how he managed to get elected a second term.....I don't like to think about the possible reasons........
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:11 AM
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Im not seeing the big deal. I have read it over three times already before replying. Can some explain to me why people don't want this passed?
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
Explained:

Licensed home providers are too stupid to manage their own curriculum's or the children in their care alone....the government *has* to have their nose in everything or children everywhere will grow up morons who are unprepared to deal with the world as adults.

We need this, because no one but the government can raise happy, intelligent and successful people
I don't think that is what is being said at all. What is being said is that we need HIGHER QUALITY family child care programs that support children's early learning. As an assessor conducting FCCERS, ECERS and ITERS on over 100 programs I can say that there are FAR more poor quality FCCH that are doing significant damage to children than there are high quality programs that offer developmentally appropriate environments and "curriculum".

I also see it being offered as a partnership, whereas the government will assist providers in making quality improvements to their programs. I DO NOT beleive that the government is trying to oust FCC providers or take over their programs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:19 AM
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I don't disagree, nor was I trying to shoot the messenger love lol
No problem, I totally understand .

I'm a big believer in letting our opinions be heard by our representatives in government - even if I didn't vote for them .
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:19 AM
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I don't disagree, nor was I trying to shoot the messenger love lol


Just venting more than anything.

I get so sick of hearing NO ONE in support of all his junk socialist agendas, everyone trying to stop him, and him continuing to plow through anyway. I am SOME ONE and I do support Obama. He may have made some mistakes, but who in life hasn't? He also had a HUGE mess to clean up coming into his presidency....Bush practically singlehandedly destroyed our country, yet Obama is the monster in the closet

I have NO CLUE how he managed to get elected a second term.....I don't like to think about the possible reasons........He was elected a second term because the MAJORITY do support him.
I replied above.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:21 AM
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Here in Ontario, Canada all children who turn 4 by Dec 31 of the school year they enroll in are entitled to start Junior Kindergarten. This is a government funded part of the school system.

All I am reading here is that kids who are offered a similar opportunity do well in life. I don't see anything bad in that.

I guess if your daycare base was solely 4 year olds and you were breaking your back to provide an enriching environment for them then I could see why you might feel slighted but really all that is being suggested, in my opinion is that the school system steps up, starts a bit younger and the government pays for it.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:22 AM
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Im not seeing the big deal. I have read it over three times already before replying. Can some explain to me why people don't want this passed?

It's money this country doesn't have, to put into a program that's already proven not to work, and even more government intrusion that the vast majority of providers do not want.

Kids need to learn through play when they're toddlers, not be pushed to learn things they should be learning K-2nd/3rd grade. I could teach the kids in my care algebra when they're here *or* I could teach them manners, respect, self care/help skills and how to control their emotions so they can actually do something productive with the algebra they learn someday.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyAngels
NAFCC believes that accredited family child care homes are the most natural setting for our nation's youngest children. The low child adult ratio, home-like setting, and consistent care giver enable children to build trusting relationships that open up their curiosity to learning about themselves and their environment. Family child care partnerships with Early Head Start grantees are the perfect fit for children and providers. Through these partnerships, providers continue to develop their knowledge of young children through professional development, mentoring and coaching, and on-going evaluation and review.

Explained:

Licensed home providers are too stupid to manage their own curriculum's or the children in their care alone....the government *has* to have their nose in everything or children everywhere will grow up morons who are unprepared to deal with the world as adults.

We need this, because no one but the government can raise happy, intelligent and successful people


You said it perfectly Willow!
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:25 AM
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Here in Ontario, Canada all children who turn 4 by Dec 31 of the school year they enroll in are entitled to start Junior Kindergarten. This is a government funded part of the school system.

All I am reading here is that kids who are offered a similar opportunity do well in life. I don't see anything bad in that.

I guess if your daycare base was solely 4 year olds and you were breaking your back to provide an enriching environment for them then I could see why you might feel slighted but really all that is being suggested, in my opinion is that the school system steps up, starts a bit younger and the government pays for it.
No, the people pay for it. The government does not.

We don't have money for this. We have a broken public school system so why add to that?!?!

I support early education but I also know there is NO significant proof that children who have early childhood education do any better than the next kid who didn't have it. (with the exception of low income children)

I think that what early childhood aged children need is more face time with their parents, more enriched quality care NOT education.

The money for this would be far better spent if it was for mothers (and fathers) to have longer maternity leaves, more education on health, safety and quality parenting skills.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:26 AM
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I don't think that is what is being said at all. What is being said is that we need HIGHER QUALITY family child care programs that support children's early learning. As an assessor conducting FCCERS, ECERS and ITERS on over 100 programs I can say that there are FAR more poor quality FCCH that are doing significant damage to children than there are high quality programs that offer developmentally appropriate environments and "curriculum".

I also see it being offered as a partnership, whereas the government will assist providers in making quality improvements to their programs. I DO NOT beleive that the government is trying to oust FCC providers or take over their programs.
Slippery slope.

Offer a partnership. Offer passive punishments for not participating in partnership. Require partnership. Hostile complete takeover (a joke, but only sort of).

This has been the natural progression for all of Obama's programs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:29 AM
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I guess im in favor of this because i don't see anything wrong with it. And obama got a second term because more people voted for him, its as simple as that. I agree with person that obama had a load to clean up after bush. I always remind people that yall gave bush 8 years to make a mess so why would you expect Obama to clean it up in 4?
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:36 AM
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"He was elected a second term because the MAJORITY do support him."


The majority of WHO?

If you break down who actually voted for him it wasn't the majority of people in this country who are working and paying taxes to pay for all of the agendas he pushes.

That's not me being a meanie, that's statistic and fact.

Sure everyone counts as an individual on some level, but is it fair that people who AREN'T paying for these programs should be able to cast a vote that forces *other* people to??

I guess that can be debated but I personally think it's ridiculous.

Add to that, he may have won the electoral college votes but the popular vote was split literally right down the middle. HALF of this country's people did not believe he was fit to run this country..

HALF.


In the grand scheme of all the elections ever held that is a doozy of a number and shows a severe lack of confidence on a vast amount of American's parts.



And yes, everyone knows everything was George Bush's fault, that's why this country is further in debt than it ever has been 4+ years AFTER Obama came in to fix everything
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:39 AM
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I had a current client yesterday let me know her husband and her are going over their budget and see if they can fit my fulltime price into their budget.

This spoke volumes to me as their child currently attends HS and the child seems to really enjoy coming hear for preschool time (the child has come here and there at times), playing with the kids here and overall seems happier here then at HS.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:40 AM
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I guess im in favor of this because i don't see anything wrong with it. And obama got a second term because more people voted for him, its as simple as that. I agree with person that obama had a load to clean up after bush. I always remind people that yall gave bush 8 years to make a mess so why would you expect Obama to clean it up in 4?

Maybe because he promised he would?

And along with that promise swore he'd vacate the seat if he couldn't in that amount of time?


Keep in mind that this country isn't ANY better off than it was 4 years ago. Not in regards to unemployment or this countries debt especially. We are still in a war he said he was going to end and more people are living at or under poverty level than ever before.

I'm not sure how you can call a massive back slide any sort of progress at all. If things were THAT bad he should have been able to make some sort of forward movement 4+ years later.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:41 AM
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"He was elected a second term because the MAJORITY do support him."


The majority of WHO?

If you break down who actually voted for him it wasn't the majority of people in this country who are working and paying taxes to pay for all of the agendas he pushes.

That's not me being a meanie, that's statistic and fact.

Sure everyone counts as an individual on some level, but is it fair that people who AREN'T paying for these programs should be able to cast a vote that forces *other* people to??

I guess that can be debated but I personally think it's ridiculous.

Add to that, he may have won the electoral college votes but the popular vote was split literally right down the middle. HALF of this country's people did not believe he was fit to run this country..

HALF.


In the grand scheme of all the elections ever held that is a doozy of a number and shows a severe lack of confidence on a vast amount of American's parts.



And yes, everyone knows everything was George Bush's fault, that's why this country is further in debt than it ever has been 4+ years AFTER Obama came in to fix everything
Romney's on home state didn't vote for him what does that tell you. And as i recall wasn't Al Gore suppose to win insted of Bush, so how did he become our president? Just sayin not to start a fight i think he won fair.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:41 AM
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No, the people pay for it. The government does not.

We don't have money for this. We have a broken public school system so why add to that?!?!

I support early education but I also know there is NO significant proof that children who have early childhood education do any better than the next kid who didn't have it. (with the exception of low income children)

I think that what early childhood aged children need is more face time with their parents, more enriched quality care NOT education.

The money for this would be far better spent if it was for mothers (and fathers) to have longer maternity leaves, more education on health, safety and quality parenting skills.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:46 AM
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Romney's on home state didn't vote for him what does that tell you. And as i recall wasn't Al Gore suppose to win insted of Bush, so how did he become our president? Just sayin not to start a fight i think he won fair.

Oh I'm not arguing Obama won "fair." As in using the broken electoral college system.

But fact is HALF of Americans did not vote for Obama. Popular vote has nothing to do with the electoral college.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:47 AM
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It's money this country doesn't have, to put into a program that's already proven not to work, and even more government intrusion that the vast majority of providers do not want.

Kids need to learn through play when they're toddlers, not be pushed to learn things they should be learning K-2nd/3rd grade. I could teach the kids in my care algebra when they're here *or* I could teach them manners, respect, self care/help skills and how to control their emotions so they can actually do something productive with the algebra they learn someday.
I highly doubt that the government is going to insist we teach children concepts that are not DAP. It will still be about teaching appropriate social skills, self-care and self-regulation. Additionally they will learn basics like colors/shapes/alphabet, etc. BUT, they should be being taught that anyway. Of course it should be in the context of play based experiences, not rote memorization or "dittos", and from what I am seeing as an independent consultant for Head Start, at least here, is that government funded programs ARE practicing this now.....it isn't going to change the way children SHOULD be taught, it is going to weed out the mediocre programs with providers that are in the field for a "paycheck" so that they can stay home with their own children. I agree it is best to stay home with your own children, but if you are caring for other people's children and doing a half-assed job of it, then "you" need to be forced out of the field.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
It's money this country doesn't have, to put into a program that's already proven not to work, and even more government intrusion that the vast majority of providers do not want.

Kids need to learn through play when they're toddlers, not be pushed to learn things they should be learning K-2nd/3rd grade. I could teach the kids in my care algebra when they're here *or* I could teach them manners, respect, self care/help skills and how to control their emotions so they can actually do something productive with the algebra they learn someday.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
I don't think that is what is being said at all. What is being said is that we need HIGHER QUALITY family child care programs that support children's early learning. As an assessor conducting FCCERS, ECERS and ITERS on over 100 programs I can say that there are FAR more poor quality FCCH that are doing significant damage to children than there are high quality programs that offer developmentally appropriate environments and "curriculum".

I also see it being offered as a partnership, whereas the government will assist providers in making quality improvements to their programs. I DO NOT beleive that the government is trying to oust FCC providers or take over their programs.
Agree
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:56 AM
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No, the people pay for it. The government does not.

We don't have money for this. We have a broken public school system so why add to that?!?!

I support early education but I also know there is NO significant proof that children who have early childhood education do any better than the next kid who didn't have it. (with the exception of low income children) I would argue that, just because there has not been a significant study following children from middle to upper class families who attend preschool does NOT mean that there is not a significant difference in how these children grow up and how they contribute to society as adults. The only difference is that, currently, the government HAS to follow the children they fund preschool for.....they HAVE to show that the dollars they spend on those children to attend preschool makes a difference. They HAVE done that. Now, it is time to see the impact preschool has on ALL children. What is so wrong with that?
I think that what early childhood aged children need is more face time with their parents, more enriched quality care NOT education. Perhaps. I would argue that not ALL children are better off with more face time with their parents and HIGHLY benefit from the time they spend at "preschool". Let's keep in mind that preschool is NOT what it used to be. Even the government, (with all of their studies on children living in poverty) have recognized what DAP is and they are implementing it in head start and state funded preschool programs. The emphasis is on social-emotional development, self-care and self-regualtion so that when they enter "real school" they are prepared to follow directions, get along with peers, negotiate conflict and adequately care for themselves in a world outside of their home

The money for this would be far better spent if it was for mothers (and fathers) to have longer maternity leaves, more education on health, safety and quality parenting skills. We certainly need that. BUT, we also NEED better trained teachers, and we need a program that supports ALL children's growth and development, not just those living in poverty.
I replied in bold above
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
"He was elected a second term because the MAJORITY do support him."


The majority of WHO?

If you break down who actually voted for him it wasn't the majority of people in this country who are working and paying taxes to pay for all of the agendas he pushes.

That's not me being a meanie, that's statistic and fact.

Sure everyone counts as an individual on some level, but is it fair that people who AREN'T paying for these programs should be able to cast a vote that forces *other* people to??

I guess that can be debated but I personally think it's ridiculous.

Add to that, he may have won the electoral college votes but the popular vote was split literally right down the middle. HALF of this country's people did not believe he was fit to run this country..

HALF.


In the grand scheme of all the elections ever held that is a doozy of a number and shows a severe lack of confidence on a vast amount of American's parts.



And yes, everyone knows everything was George Bush's fault, that's why this country is further in debt than it ever has been 4+ years AFTER Obama came in to fix everything
To the bolded above. Wow. Just wow.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
No, the people pay for it. The government does not.

We don't have money for this. We have a broken public school system so why add to that?!?!

I support early education but I also know there is NO significant proof that children who have early childhood education do any better than the next kid who didn't have it. (with the exception of low income children)

I think that what early childhood aged children need is more face time with their parents, more enriched quality care NOT education.

The money for this would be far better spent if it was for mothers (and fathers) to have longer maternity leaves, more education on health, safety and quality parenting skills.
With the exception of desperately poor children who have desperately low functioning parents. Translation is the children would do better because they are out of the poor environment for a portion of the day. NOT because the environment is an educational environment but because its better CARE than the home environment.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:12 AM
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I highly doubt that the government is going to insist we teach children concepts that are not DAP. It will still be about teaching appropriate social skills, self-care and self-regulation. Additionally they will learn basics like colors/shapes/alphabet, etc. BUT, they should be being taught that anyway. Of course it should be in the context of play based experiences, not rote memorization or "dittos", and from what I am seeing as an independent consultant for Head Start, at least here, is that government funded programs ARE practicing this now.....it isn't going to change the way children SHOULD be taught, it is going to weed out the mediocre programs with providers that are in the field for a "paycheck" so that they can stay home with their own children. I agree it is best to stay home with your own children, but if you are caring for other people's children and doing a half-assed job of it, then "you" need to be forced out of the field.
I don't disagree with most of your above, but why is that the governments place to do that though?

It should be up to the parents to make good decisions for their kids. Even if you "force out" the bottom of the barrel daycare providers parents are still going to make poor choices in regards to many other aspects of their childrens lives.

Should the government start regulating many/all other aspects of parenting because parents can't always be trusted to do a perfect job??

Again with the slippery slope......


I like firm boundary lines regarding government intrusion in my life and the lives of my family members. Who a parent chooses to watch their children is their business and their business alone. If they choose someone licensed and accredited great, if they don't, that's no one else's place to criticize or control.

Funny enough the worst daycares I had growing up were centers who were licensed and accredited.

The daycares I learned the best and most in was my unaccredited unlicensed aunts home.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:13 AM
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I highly doubt that the government is going to insist we teach children concepts that are not DAP. It will still be about teaching appropriate social skills, self-care and self-regulation. Additionally they will learn basics like colors/shapes/alphabet, etc. BUT, they should be being taught that anyway. Of course it should be in the context of play based experiences, not rote memorization or "dittos", and from what I am seeing as an independent consultant for Head Start, at least here, is that government funded programs ARE practicing this now.....it isn't going to change the way children SHOULD be taught, it is going to weed out the mediocre programs with providers that are in the field for a "paycheck" so that they can stay home with their own children. I agree it is best to stay home with your own children, but if you are caring for other people's children and doing a half-assed job of it, then "you" need to be forced out of the field.
Although I agree with this I am concerned about the fact that we may be forced to partner with a program like Head Start in order to stay in business. I think that maybe there should be something that requires programs that are lower quality to partner with them but those of us that go above and beyond to provide a quality, DAP program should not be required to abandon our programs in order to work with another agency. I worked long and hard to become a successful 5 star preschool program and have scored high on all of my FCCERS evaluations. I think that the politics involved will be messy. If I have to follow their program are they going to pay for my materials, my training, my salary, etc? Are my parents going to end up paying them? Are they going to give me paid time to do all my paperwork and evaluations? Are they going to provide substitutes when I need a day off or am ill? Will I in escense be working for them? I agree that lower quality programs need to be weeded out but I'm not sure this is the way to do it. And I think there needs to be a lot more information on the "how" before I can form an honest opinion.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:14 AM
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With the exception of desperately poor children who have desperately low functioning parents. Translation is the children would do better because they are out of the poor environment for a portion of the day. NOT because the environment is an educational environment but because its better CARE than the home environment.

This I get.

But at most participation should be optional and there should be no repercussions for providers choosing not to be involved.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:15 AM
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Oh and I did a partial internship at our local Head Start and would not send my children there if I had to. I worked in a 3 y/o room and there was no structure, no discipline, very little learning, and no support for the teachers. So from my experience, partnering with Head Start is not all it is cracked up to be.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:21 AM
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To the bolded above. Wow. Just wow.

What about that do you have a problem with?

If I want something I buy it.

I don't expect you to buy it. I don't expect my neighbors to buy it. I work, make money, and I buy it myself.

I contribute to charities of my choice and am incredibly generous....but I don't believe I should be forced to buy things some people in this country want that I don't believe are ethical or productive investments, nor things that they refuse to pay for themselves.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:22 AM
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Oh and I did a partial internship at our local Head Start and would not send my children there if I had to. I worked in a 3 y/o room and there was no structure, no discipline, very little learning, and no support for the teachers. So from my experience, partnering with Head Start is not all it is cracked up to be.
The CONCEPT of Head Start is admirable. My actual experiences there as a classroom teacher and home visit specialist were eye opening to say the least.

I am NOT speaking for all Head Starts but I can tell you truthfully that the goal of our Head Start on paper and in theory was to support families in gaining self sufficiency and for their children to have a "head start" compared to other children when they did get to school but for some reason the actions of our Head Start were to simply enable the parents/families we served and to spend grant money faster than we were awarded it. After all, if all those families suddenly became self-sufficient, there would be an awful lot of state/county workers without jobs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:28 AM
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So if the government just said "elementary school now starts at age 4, it is not compulsory but it is available" would you have a problem with that?

Here you must go to school or be home schooled by age 6 but Junior and senior kindergartens are not mandatory- if you as a parent decide to keep your child home, send them to daycare or whatever it is up to you.

In googling a bit of US political stuff I think I fell in love with Bernie Sanders
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:30 AM
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With the exception of desperately poor children who have desperately low functioning parents. Translation is the children would do better because they are out of the poor environment for a portion of the day. NOT because the environment is an educational environment but because its better CARE than the home environment.
I would love to spend a majority of my day teaching children academic concepts and educational things but I am far to busy teaching them how to have life skills, manner, respect and social skills. (which I believe come from QUALITY EARLY CARE NOT EDUCATION)

If children came to me with GOOD food in their bellies, a good nights sleep and manners each day I would be thrilled but too many parents have to focus on working to make even minimum wage to support their families that little time is left for them to "parent" their child so it is left to me to do.

Kids aren't going to succeed in life solely on academics. They need LIFE skills.

ALL of which they should be getting before age 5 but most aren't getting at all. So instead we see a bunch of kids graduating high school with great academic records but zero clue how to act in public, how to live on their own or function as an adult. The proof is in households across America with 30-something year olds with college degrees still living at home with their parents because they have no common sense and no idea how to care for themselves.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:56 AM
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The CONCEPT of Head Start is admirable. My actual experiences there as a classroom teacher and home visit specialist were eye opening to say the least.

I am NOT speaking for all Head Starts but I can tell you truthfully that the goal of our Head Start on paper and in theory was to support families in gaining self sufficiency and for their children to have a "head start" compared to other children when they did get to school but for some reason the actions of our Head Start were to simply enable the parents/families we served and to spend grant money faster than we were awarded it. After all, if all those families suddenly became self-sufficient, there would be an awful lot of state/county workers without jobs.
head start is a SOCIAL program not an educational program. They have zero accountability to prove academic advantage. They are not independently tested. There isnt a single bit of longitudinal data that shows hs kids fare better academy compared to their peers.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:03 AM
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head start is a SOCIAL program not an educational program. They have zero accountability to prove academic advantage. They are not independently tested. There isnt a single bit of longitudinal data that shows hs kids fare better academy compared to their peers.
But according to our star ratings program, ALL Head Starts are automatically awarded 4 stars.

I was told they are the "model of success".
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:05 AM
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I agree with whoever said that the idea is admirable but the reality is probably flawed. And also that the money would be better spent finding a way for parents to spend a little more time with their children. Sorry, i'm paraphrasing.

I was a low income child who attended hs. I remember a lot of playing. A LOT. I learned more with my mother at home. I could read before I started hs. My mother was frequently complimented on all four of her childrens manners when we were out and about. She loved to take books and apply them to real things. If she was reading me a book about trees, we went outside and touched the trees and noted different ones and talked about how old they were and why we need them. And she was a single mother.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:09 AM
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So if the government just said "elementary school now starts at age 4, it is not compulsory but it is available" would you have a problem with that?
[/url]

Holy buckets YES.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:10 AM
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I agree with whoever said that the idea is admirable but the reality is probably flawed. And also that the money would be better spent finding a way for parents to spend a little more time with their children. Sorry, i'm paraphrasing.

I was a low income child who attended hs. I remember a lot of playing. A LOT. I learned more with my mother at home. I could read before I started hs. My mother was frequently complimented on all four of her childrens manners when we were out and about. She loved to take books and apply them to real things. If she was reading me a book about trees, we went outside and touched the trees and noted different ones and talked about how old they were and why we need them. And she was a single mother.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:17 AM
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But according to our star ratings program, ALL Head Starts are automatically awarded 4 stars.

I was told they are the "model of success".
UUGGHH this is why I really wonder about this STARS program. It really, really reminds me of the food program. Goverment run/funded but different standards for ALL states.

Our HS will not automatically get any STARS. They will have to become licensed through our state like all childcares/go through the same inspections and have to follow the same rules that the childcares do.

I find this really interesting that they will have to do this as I think they would have to change alot of things they do in order to follow these guidelines.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:23 AM
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So if the government just said "elementary school now starts at age 4, it is not compulsory but it is available" would you have a problem with that?

Here you must go to school or be home schooled by age 6 but Junior and senior kindergartens are not mandatory- if you as a parent decide to keep your child home, send them to daycare or whatever it is up to you.

In googling a bit of US political stuff I think I fell in love with Bernie Sanders
Actually, that is how some states are set up. Compulsory education varies from ages 5 to 8, depending on the states' laws. But most people send their children to K at age 5, regardless. So that is why politicians don't see making it available at age 4 any different.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:45 AM
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UUGGHH this is why I really wonder about this STARS program. It really, really reminds me of the food program. Goverment run/funded but different standards for ALL states.

Our HS will not automatically get any STARS. They will have to become licensed through our state like all childcares/go through the same inspections and have to follow the same rules that the childcares do.

I find this really interesting that they will have to do this as I think they would have to change alot of things they do in order to follow these guidelines.
Our headstart is already under our licensing regulations and each site is rated based on their own merits...or whatever show they can put on.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:03 AM
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I'm going to put in my 2 cents:

The only things that I worry about about this whole universal childcare thing is
  1. Where are we going to get the money to pay for this? I understand that it would greatly benefit MANY families but if we are already in debt it doesn't make sense to spend even more money. Let's pay off the debt we owe now and once we have a handle on it then we can spend money on programs like this.
  2. The universal childcare and QRIS (aka stars, steps etc) requirements for FCC are in many ways still the same requirements as centers. Centers have more capital for training, equipment, assessment materials etc. FCC providers have to meet many of these same requirements but have less accessability to meet the requirements due to financial and time restraints.
  3. Universal childcare will make quality childcare more accessible to families through creating more quality pre-school programs and through offering child care programs the opportunity to participate voluntarily in rating programs. Families that choose childcare in the program and sometimes providers that volunteer to participate in the program may be given incentives potentially making it more difficult for other programs that choose not to (or can't, due to financial or time restraints or just because they don't want to) may have a harder time finding clients because clients will prefer to have "perks" and childcare fee breaks through incentives rather than not.
  4. Most rating systems require assessments and parent meetings to score more "points" or to get a higher rating. These assessments (from looking at other states assessment requirements) are very expensive to use and need training to learn how to use them which is another additional cost. Plus I don't have even one family that I know of that would want to take additional time off their day to meet with me for a conference to talk about their child's progress.
  5. Most rating systems require a particular curriculum and to score high in this area and they list specific curriculum to choose from which is both expensive and curriculum based (worksheets etc) which is against what providers like me do.

If the rating program is modified more so that centers and FCC are rated a bit differently (as in they each get their own scoring system) then I think that it would work better.

Sure better quality child care is a great idea. Now we need to make training and materials more accessible to FCC through grants and incentives but again, where are we going to get the money for this?
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:04 AM
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Why are people against children starting school at 4. Thats how old every child is when they enter pre-k and now in my state i think you have to send your child pre-k you can't just send them to k. As for headstart the ones in my area do a really good job and they do do school work but like someone said different states vary.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:08 AM
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Why are people against children starting school at 4. Thats how old every child is when they enter pre-k and now in my state i think you have to send your child pre-k you can't just send them to k. As for headstart the ones in my area do a really good job and they do do school work but like someone said different states vary.
Because it costs money that we DON'T have!! We are BROKE and in DEBT up to our eyeballs. There is NO MONEY to SPEND on more programs!
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:16 AM
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Actually, that is how some states are set up. Compulsory education varies from ages 5 to 8, depending on the states' laws. But most people send their children to K at age 5, regardless. So that is why politicians don't see making it available at age 4 any different.
Why not 3?
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:16 AM
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I also think that before we start implementing something in a "universal" way we need to allign all of the states standards. The STARS program here is very different from what other states are using for their STARS/QRIS programs. So a 5 star program here in NC may not be anything like a 5 star program in another state. Just as in some states you can have 12 kids by yourself and in other states only 5 or in some states you can have up to 5 kids without a license and in other states you can't have more than 1. So how can we implement a univeral program when the states can't even agree on licensing requirements or ratings?
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:17 AM
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No, the people pay for it. The government does not.

We don't have money for this. We have a broken public school system so why add to that?!?!

I support early education but I also know there is NO significant proof that children who have early childhood education do any better than the next kid who didn't have it. (with the exception of low income children)

I think that what early childhood aged children need is more face time with their parents, more enriched quality care NOT education.

The money for this would be far better spent if it was for mothers (and fathers) to have longer maternity leaves, more education on health, safety and quality parenting skills.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:18 AM
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With the exception of desperately poor children who have desperately low functioning parents. Translation is the children would do better because they are out of the poor environment for a portion of the day. NOT because the environment is an educational environment but because its better CARE than the home environment.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:19 AM
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I don't disagree with most of your above, but why is that the governments place to do that though?

It should be up to the parents to make good decisions for their kids. Even if you "force out" the bottom of the barrel daycare providers parents are still going to make poor choices in regards to many other aspects of their childrens lives.

Should the government start regulating many/all other aspects of parenting because parents can't always be trusted to do a perfect job??

Again with the slippery slope......


I like firm boundary lines regarding government intrusion in my life and the lives of my family members. Who a parent chooses to watch their children is their business and their business alone. If they choose someone licensed and accredited great, if they don't, that's no one else's place to criticize or control.

Funny enough the worst daycares I had growing up were centers who were licensed and accredited.

The daycares I learned the best and most in was my unaccredited unlicensed aunts home.
Amen!
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:24 AM
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I am against expanding the public school system to include 3 year olds and 4 year olds. This would be expensive and in my opinion, not beneficial to the children to be in such an institutionalized, large scale setting. I DO AGREE with letting home providers participate in a federally funded (or state funded) program, if they meet certain qualifications. I am a center, and dread the thought of free, all day school for 3.and 4 year olds. We have free partial days here for 4 year olds already, it has hurt my business. But if it goes to 3, I will find a way to participate, or adapt my program to cater to younger children. We have already discussed it, and decided to buy the house next door to our center and start an infant/toddler facility. The owners of the house are renting it out now, but gave us a standing offer to buy it. I am considering it if they decide to expand public school to 3 years old. Adapt or die, right?
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:26 AM
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I would love to spend a majority of my day teaching children academic concepts and educational things but I am far to busy teaching them how to have life skills, manner, respect and social skills. (which I believe come from QUALITY EARLY CARE NOT EDUCATION)

If children came to me with GOOD food in their bellies, a good nights sleep and manners each day I would be thrilled but too many parents have to focus on working to make even minimum wage to support their families that little time is left for them to "parent" their child so it is left to me to do.

Kids aren't going to succeed in life solely on academics. They need LIFE skills.

ALL of which they should be getting before age 5 but most aren't getting at all. So instead we see a bunch of kids graduating high school with great academic records but zero clue how to act in public, how to live on their own or function as an adult. The proof is in households across America with 30-something year olds with college degrees still living at home with their parents because they have no common sense and no idea how to care for themselves.
One of my best friends teaches KG. She has told me she is sick of getting kids who can quote their numbers/alphabet/quantum physics........and yet can't sit still, can't share, are rude, bullies, etc etc etc. She has always implored me to pleeeease stick to teaching my daycare kids life skills and not try to be "mini-KG". She wants kids READY to learn...not necessarily already knowing it all (those are the kids who get bored and act out in her class)
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:27 AM
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But according to our star ratings program, ALL Head Starts are automatically awarded 4 stars.

I was told they are the "model of success".
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:28 AM
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Why are people against children starting school at 4. Thats how old every child is when they enter pre-k and now in my state i think you have to send your child pre-k you can't just send them to k. As for headstart the ones in my area do a really good job and they do do school work but like someone said different states vary.
I'd move if that ever came to pass when my children were young. Seriously, how ridiculous.

My children never spent a single day in pre-K and they were far better prepared for K than their classmates who went for several years.


Pre-k frequently has nothing to do with any sort of meaningful prep for organized education nor is it any sort of guarantee the child can or will learn anything educational that they'll actually be able to retain.

I have two families now who each send a kiddo to a pre-k program at the local elementary school. The one goes mornings two days a week (3 nearly 4 years old), the other goes afternoons four days a week (5 years old). They pay a lot of money to send them and have openly admitted their kids aren't getting anything out of it. That they've learned far more here and I follow a loosely pieced together curriculum at best. We do 95% of our learning through play. To boot many children in their classes are either undersocialized or shamefully misbehaved so all they're doing is picking up the nasty behaviors of children who are not physically or emotionally ready for a classroom setting. Often takes them a good while to settle the heck down and return to decent behavior when they return here from pre-K.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:32 AM
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More food for thought (and plenty of resources for those interested in learning more about this) :

http://factcheck.org/2013/02/obamas-preschool-stretch/
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:33 AM
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One of my best friends teaches KG. She has told me she is sick of getting kids who can quote their numbers/alphabet/quantum physics........and yet can't sit still, can't share, are rude, bullies, etc etc etc. She has always implored me to pleeeease stick to teaching my daycare kids life skills and not try to be "mini-KG". She wants kids READY to learn...not necessarily already knowing it all (those are the kids who get bored and act out in her class)
I have had teachers share the exact same things with me!!!!!

At conferences just this year my daughters fourth grade teacher joked with me to please PLEASE push the importance of personal space. She's got kids that can read, write and do long division but cannot for the life of them keep their hands to themselves, properly dress themselves for playing outside and speak to adults in full sentences or with any respect!!!
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:33 AM
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That should not stop you from voicing your opinion IMO. If you are against making these changes you cannot complain when they happen if you did not at least try to make your voice heard.

Whether any of us are for or against we should be letting our legislators know what we think, both on the state and national level.


If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. My school's child development program is very active in child advocacy. We even have an "advocates for children" group and we had to write letters to our state senator for some assignments.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:33 AM
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Why not 3?
Or 2....

Or 1.....

Or why not make it compulsory for pregnant woman to sit for 30 minutes a day with a pair of headphones stuck over their bellies so baby can get a "head start".......
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:37 AM
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Why not 3?
..and then why not 2?

In my area we have a program called "Early Head Start" for kids not yet old enough for Head Start.

I also just found out yesterday that our Head Starts are going to be offering summer classes.....



It also amazes me how some people expect these young children to know their academic stuff in and out before Kindy entrance but most of those same kids who can recite the alphabet/numbers and quantum physics due to early education have only a few months behind them in underwear and drinking out of an unlidded cup.

The expectations for mastering life skills have been raised to older and older ages....but the academic expectations start at earlier and earlier age....makes zero sense to me.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:46 AM
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Or 2....

Or 1.....

Or why not make it compulsory for pregnant woman to sit for 30 minutes a day with a pair of headphones stuck over their bellies so baby can get a "head start".......

I am discussing this thread with hubby.

When I read him this comment he took a second and then cracked the heck up.
Said - if swimmer enrichment becomes the status quo we are DONE trying for more kids

The look on his face as his brain went there before the words came out was almost too much lol
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:15 PM
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I'd move if that ever came to pass when my children were young. Seriously, how ridiculous.

My children never spent a single day in pre-K and they were far better prepared for K than their classmates who went for several years.


Pre-k frequently has nothing to do with any sort of meaningful prep for organized education nor is it any sort of guarantee the child can or will learn anything educational that they'll actually be able to retain.

I have two families now who each send a kiddo to a pre-k program at the local elementary school. The one goes mornings two days a week (3 nearly 4 years old), the other goes afternoons four days a week (5 years old). They pay a lot of money to send them and have openly admitted their kids aren't getting anything out of it. That they've learned far more here and I follow a loosely pieced together curriculum at best. We do 95% of our learning through play. To boot many children in their classes are either undersocialized or shamefully misbehaved so all they're doing is picking up the nasty behaviors of children who are not physically or emotionally ready for a classroom setting. Often takes them a good while to settle the heck down and return to decent behavior when they return here from pre-K.
I disagree i went to pre-k. Actually i was in the first pre-k class that my school offered. I don't know what the regular kids learned beacuse they were at a different table from them. But our table was advanced there were only 5 of us. But we did 1st grade work i remember reading a book that was for 4th graders in pre-k. Nobody in my class had trouble sitting still. Im not sure what pre-k classes you have sat in on but they sound bad, unlike any i have ever looked in. Pre-k helps some kids and some it doesn't. I think it depends on the teacher
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:24 PM
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Your ideas of JK must be so different from what I have lived.

bell rings, kids come in and do circle, go off and have free play, have snack, go to the gym, have a craft, eat lunch, go outside and play, have a rest time, have snack, free play and home time.


Yes the circle has a theme to it and maybe during free play groups will get called to sit with the teacher and work on a sheet with pattern recognition or colour learning etc. but it isn't as if they are being given essays to write.

I went to JK here 40 years ago. My 3 children went, as well. Most kids here do. We are all functioning members of society. My boys are in university and my daughter is in high school. Everyone has a job, friends, significant others etc.

My point is that early childhood education isn't the enemy. I would much rather live in a country that wants to invest its money on the population. Health care, education, senior living, food and housing for all etc.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:37 PM
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But we did 1st grade work i remember reading a book that was for 4th graders in pre-k.
But why do you think that's necessary?

Why do you think taxpayers should fork over millions of dollars they don't have to accomplish such a thing?

What's wrong with doing 1st grade work in 1st grade? And reading 4th grade level books in 4th grade?

Where does the opinion come from that younger children being able to perform as an older student is somehow better??


If parents want to instill that level of education at a toddler level then fine, but I don't think the government should be sending the bill for it to taxpayers.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:43 PM
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We have free, full day pre-K in my town through the school district. I will lose my day care girl 2 weeks after her 4th birthday. Why? Not because her family wants her in a more academic environment but because it is free. Her family will save the money they pay me. Problem is that she is 2 now. She knows the ABC song and is well on her way to recognizing letters, counts to 15 reliably and to 20 when she focuses and recognizes some numbers. She can sing almost every nursery rhyme she's ever heard, follows multi-step directions, can spell her name, etc. I don't push, don't do worksheets, she's just really smart. She craves learning like I crave chocolate, so I provide it. But, how do you think it's going to be when she hits pre-K? She is going to be bored out of her mind. IMO, she would do much better staying with me until first grade or at least kindy. But, she won't get to do that because of the $100 a week they will save.

My granddaughter was the same way. She started kindy and after a week, they tested her in 1st grade for her social skills, and she did fine. She graduated from high school right after her 17th birthday. She could have graduated right after her 16th birthday but her family talked her into staying since she was so young. Maybe my dcg will be the same way socially, I'm certainly working on it.

I digress. It's often not about what's best for the kids, but what's best for the parents.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:44 PM
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I for one am glad that in my area at least we don't have pre-k class only pre-school and that is optional. This year the cut-off for kindergarteners has been pushed back. Last year and the years previously the deadline for kids starting Kindy was in early December. If you were 5 by December (the 8th I think) then you got to go to Kindy, if your bday landed after that then you had to wait another year.

This year they moved the deadline to October. You have to be 5 years old by October 8th in order to be able to register for Kindy this Fall. For kids that were born after that deadline they will having a sort of pre-k class (they are calling it transitional-Kindergarten) and even this is optional. They also only offer transitional-kindergarten at 3 schools in our city and it's first-come-first-serve. Our own city and school district believes that kids are starting school too early. Next year our deadline will be moved to September. Kids that are 5 by September get to go into Kinder and the other wait another year.

My nephew has a birthday on October 10th and he got in to transitional-kindergarten this year. He is in preschool right now at a Jump Start program (much like Head Start) and they are great half day programs 5 days a week for families that earn under a certain income level. These program focus on open-ended activities, process art and social skills. They do learn about shapes, colors, numbers etc but they don't use worksheets often (maybe once every week or two), they incorporate their learning during play. These programs I agree with and I love the fact that they are optional, not mandatory in our district.

My DH suggested a 3-day-a-week pre-school program for our 2yo DS ... TWO YEAR OLD!!!!! . I gave him the blank stare followed by an uncomfortable silence and that was the end of that "discussion". Later he asked me why I was against it and I answered with a question "Why are you for it?" he said that DS could get social skills ... another blank stare followed by another uncomfortable silence and he broke eye contact and looked around at the daycare kids playing with him while they worked together to build a Duplo castle and then he said "Okay I get your point".
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:45 PM
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Why are people against children starting school at 4. Thats how old every child is when they enter pre-k and now in my state i think you have to send your child pre-k you can't just send them to k. As for headstart the ones in my area do a really good job and they do do school work but like someone said different states vary.
I see what Finland does and think we are completely missing the mark. They don't even start formal education until a child reaches the age of 7. Kids need to be kids, they need family, they need to learn by exploring, nature, play based learning, life skills...

I think it's sad that parents want to ship the kids off to preschool so young, I will treasure every single second with my children, I actually held my youngest DS back a year!
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:52 PM
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My point is that early childhood education isn't the enemy. I would much rather live in a country that wants to invest its money on the population. Health care, education, senior living, food and housing for all etc.

I don't think anyone is saying that early childhood education is the enemy. The debate here lies mainly with the definition of early childhood education and who should have to pay for it.

I'm all about *investing* money into the general population -*IF*- those investment programs work and actual benefit is the result.

Headstart is a $150 billion dollar FAIL.

Why should we fork over that amount of money, again, money we currently don't have to spend, to recreate something that has already been given ample time and funding to flourish - yet completely crashed and burned?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/...be_killed.html



Just because it defies all logic to re-fund an identical broken system doesn't mean one hates the people of their country and doesn't want to support them in other ways that actually make sense.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:07 PM
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I see what Finland does and think we are completely missing the mark. They don't even start formal education until a child reaches the age of 7. Kids need to be kids, they need family, they need to learn by exploring, nature, play based learning, life skills...
Now compare their crime rates to ours......I'd put money on both set of differences absolutely being related.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:08 PM
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Although I agree with this I am concerned about the fact that we may be forced to partner with a program like Head Start in order to stay in business. I think that maybe there should be something that requires programs that are lower quality to partner with them but those of us that go above and beyond to provide a quality, DAP program should not be required to abandon our programs in order to work with another agency. I worked long and hard to become a successful 5 star preschool program and have scored high on all of my FCCERS evaluations. I think that the politics involved will be messy. If I have to follow their program are they going to pay for my materials, my training, my salary, etc? Are my parents going to end up paying them? Are they going to give me paid time to do all my paperwork and evaluations? Are they going to provide substitutes when I need a day off or am ill? Will I in escense be working for them? I agree that lower quality programs need to be weeded out but I'm not sure this is the way to do it. And I think there needs to be a lot more information on the "how" before I can form an honest opinion.
When I was involved with a pilot Head Start Family Child Care program I mentioned above I was NOT a HS employee. They paid me for four kids (I had some private pay kids too), they privided training, supplies, equipment, etc. it was a great experience. I was sub- contracted with HS I think. I had to follow all HS guidelines, two field trips per month, family style meals, teeth brushing, complete lesson plans, attend HS trainings.....it was a mini HS program.
I enjoyed it but wanted to be an employee so I could get insurance and other perks. This was probably 18 yrs. ago. They were looking into this then.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:09 PM
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Why are people against children starting school at 4. Thats how old every child is when they enter pre-k and now in my state i think you have to send your child pre-k you can't just send them to k. As for headstart the ones in my area do a really good job and they do do school work but like someone said different states vary.
Actually, Louisiana's compulsory education age is 7. So you could keep your child at home until he/she is 7, then start school.
This is the problem I see. People assume that their kids have to go to school at 5 because that is what everyone else is doing. And, do you see/hear schools telling people what their local law is? Nope. More kids, more funding. Once a universal preschool is in effect, then many will assume that their kids have to go to school at age 4, rather than finding out the laws for themselves. Then, we will see "it's a success! Look at how many are signing up! Oooohhh, aaahhhhh. Don't want your kid left behind, now do you?"
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I for one am glad that in my area at least we don't have pre-k class only pre-school and that is optional. This year the cut-off for kindergarteners has been pushed back. Last year and the years previously the deadline for kids starting Kindy was in early December. If you were 5 by December (the 8th I think) then you got to go to Kindy, if your bday landed after that then you had to wait another year.

This year they moved the deadline to October. You have to be 5 years old by October 8th in order to be able to register for Kindy this Fall. For kids that were born after that deadline they will having a sort of pre-k class (they are calling it transitional-Kindergarten) and even this is optional. They also only offer transitional-kindergarten at 3 schools in our city and it's first-come-first-serve. Our own city and school district believes that kids are starting school too early. Next year our deadline will be moved to September. Kids that are 5 by September get to go into Kinder and the other wait another year.

My nephew has a birthday on October 10th and he got in to transitional-kindergarten this year. He is in preschool right now at a Jump Start program (much like Head Start) and they are great half day programs 5 days a week for families that earn under a certain income level. These program focus on open-ended activities, process art and social skills. They do learn about shapes, colors, numbers etc but they don't use worksheets often (maybe once every week or two), they incorporate their learning during play. These programs I agree with and I love the fact that they are optional, not mandatory in our district.

My DH suggested a 3-day-a-week pre-school program for our 2yo DS ... TWO YEAR OLD!!!!! . I gave him the blank stare followed by an uncomfortable silence and that was the end of that "discussion". Later he asked me why I was against it and I answered with a question "Why are you for it?" he said that DS could get social skills ... another blank stare followed by another uncomfortable silence and he broke eye contact and looked around at the daycare kids playing with him while they worked together to build a Duplo castle and then he said "Okay I get your point".
Oh my goodness.....Wisconsin and Iowa have had 5 by Sept. 1st and 5 by Septmber 15th for more than 30 yrs to enter kindergarten. For many, many years parents with kids with summer birthdays often times hold their late birthday child back for kindergarten until they are 6. You have had some really young kindergarteners in CA.!
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:18 PM
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Actually, Louisiana's compulsory education age is 7. So you could keep your child at home until he/she is 7, then start school.
This is the problem I see. People assume that their kids have to go to school at 5 because that is what everyone else is doing. And, do you see/hear schools telling people what their local law is? Nope. More kids, more funding. Once a universal preschool is in effect, then many will assume that their kids have to go to school at age 4, rather than finding out the laws for themselves. Then, we will see "it's a success! Look at how many are signing up! Oooohhh, aaahhhhh. Don't want your kid left behind, now do you?"
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:21 PM
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Actually, Louisiana's compulsory education age is 7. So you could keep your child at home until he/she is 7, then start school.
This is the problem I see. People assume that their kids have to go to school at 5 because that is what everyone else is doing. And, do you see/hear schools telling people what their local law is? Nope. More kids, more funding. Once a universal preschool is in effect, then many will assume that their kids have to go to school at age 4, rather than finding out the laws for themselves. Then, we will see "it's a success! Look at how many are signing up! Oooohhh, aaahhhhh. Don't want your kid left behind, now do you?"
Yes my cousin stayed home until she was 7 but that was in the 90's but she didn't graduate til she was like 21 which was awful for her socially. Her academics weren't so great either not sure if its because she started school so late or for some other reason.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:33 PM
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Yes my cousin stayed home until she was 7 but that was in the 90's but she didn't graduate til she was like 21 which was awful for her socially. Her academics weren't so great either not sure if its because she started school so late or for some other reason.
That math doesn't add up, unless she was held back in other grades a couple of times.

I started when I was 6 (just a couple of weeks shy of 7) and graduated when I was 18.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:39 PM
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That math doesn't add up, unless she was held back in other grades a couple of times.

I started when I was 6 (just a couple of weeks shy of 7) and graduated when I was 18.
Same here. My kids didn't make the 5 ON or BEFORE Sept 1 cut off date.

DS missed by 18 days and my DD has an October birthday. I'm glad though because that extra year at home helped them both alot socially.

They both spent their senior yr in high school as an 18 yr old. Neither repeated a grade.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:40 PM
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I guess im in favor of this because i don't see anything wrong with it. And obama got a second term because more people voted for him, its as simple as that. I agree with person that obama had a load to clean up after bush. I always remind people that yall gave bush 8 years to make a mess so why would you expect Obama to clean it up in 4?
Oh good grief! I can't understand how everything that is wrong with this country - the worst it has been in my lifetime - is the fault of Bush. Obama, God help us, is the POTUS now, and he is making things progressively worse, each day he is in office.

Trying to stanardize preschool and child care is just one more step towards the socialist government he is trying to sneak by the uninformed members of society. Everything in this country is NOT equal. That is why it is important to WORK for what you want in life. We were not founded on the principles that everything will be equal and government mandated.

Parents have the right to choose what type of early childhood program they want their child to attend. If I want my child learning to read at age one, that is my choice. If I want him to carry around a blanket and bake cookies until he is in kindergarten - also my choice. It is important to have the variety of program styles available, so parents can exercise their own free will in determining how they want their chld educated.

Much like universal healthcare, this is just another program that will help the "I don't need to work to live a great life" members of our society keep right on living that way. Once again, when it is all said and done, the quality of care will be sacrificed to make things "equal".

I work hard for my money, so my children can have the best that our country has to offer. I don't work hard so everyone in the country's children can have access to the fruits of my labor. If they want a better life or opportunity - WORK FOR IT!

This preschool plan is just another way for the government to control how we live our lives. I am not interested in that lifestyle. Please let these four years end before this man can do any more damage to the country. And, without a doubt, when the country is a mess after his term ~ it will STILL be Bush's fault.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:48 PM
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Parents have the right to choose what type of early childhood program they want their child to attend. If I want my child learning to read at age one, that is my choice. If I want him to carry around a blanket and bake cookies until he is in kindergarten - also my choice. It is important to have the variety of program styles available, so parents can exercise their own free will in determining how they want their chld educated.
ITA here. But, that would require people to actually think for themselves. Why do that when all you have to do is do what the man on the boob tube says to do? Then I can blame him when my decision is wrong. (I don't mean just POTUS. It could be any politician, regardless of party affiliation, or a paid spokesman on a commercial touting the latest and greatest.)
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:57 PM
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ITA here. But, that would require people to actually think for themselves. Why do that when all you have to do is do what the man on the boob tube says to do? Then I can blame him when my decision is wrong. (I don't mean just POTUS. It could be any politician, regardless of party affiliation, or a paid spokesman on a commercial touting the latest and greatest.)
Exactly! That is what is so frightening about what our country is turning into. When did all free will and thought go out the window?! Personal responsiibility is essentially gone, and it is just pathetic.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:03 PM
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Oh good grief! I can't understand how everything that is wrong with this country - the worst it has been in my lifetime - is the fault of Bush. Obama, God help us, is the POTUS now, and he is making things progressively worse, each day he is in office. Ahem. PLease go back in history and look at the state of our nation before Bush took over office and AFTER he was done. PLEASE. Then complain about Obama.

Trying to stanardize preschool and child care is just one more step towards the socialist government he is trying to sneak by the uninformed members of society. Everything in this country is NOT equal. That is why it is important to WORK for what you want in life. We were not founded on the principles that everything will be equal and government mandated. I am not an uniformed member of society and highly defend instituting a Universal Preschool program. No one ever said anything about it being "standardized" only that preschool would be available to ALL 4 year olds. I work for everything I have, but I use the public school system for free. No diffeent than I would if preschool were free when my children were 4 years old.

Parents have the right to choose what type of early childhood program they want their child to attend. If I want my child learning to read at age one, that is my choice. If I want him to carry around a blanket and bake cookies until he is in kindergarten - also my choice. It is important to have the variety of program styles available, so parents can exercise their own free will in determining how they want their chld educated. No one is saying that the rights of the parents to choose child care for their child would be affected. In fact this is NOT AT ALL about child care. It is about free part-day PRESCHOOL for FOUR YEAR OLDS. I do not understand where anyone came up with the argument that this is about taking the choice away from parents. Parents will still choose who they want for child care. They will just have the OPTION of sending their child to preschool 3 hours a day for free as well. Some children do not attend daycare, and never get socialized into being a part of a group until they go off to kindergarten. Giving them that for free three hours per day would help them begin formal school with the social and emotional skills neccessary to succeed.

Much like universal healthcare, this is just another program that will help the "I don't need to work to live a great life" members of our society keep right on living that way. Once again, when it is all said and done, the quality of care will be sacrificed to make things "equal". How so? Why would someone not need to work because their child gets 3 HOURS of preschool each day? How will the quality of care be sacrificed when the government is providing funding to programs to improve the quality of ECE they offer?

I work hard for my money, so my children can have the best that our country has to offer. I don't work hard so everyone in the country's children can have access to the fruits of my labor. If they want a better life or opportunity - WORK FOR IT! Again, who is saying people will not have to work? You do know that taxes will help fund this, right? Most of the families this will benefit are the middle income families who do pay taxes. Free preschool is already available for those living in poverty.

This preschool plan is just another way for the government to control how we live our lives. I am not interested in that lifestyle. Please let these four years end before this man can do any more damage to the country. And, without a doubt, when the country is a mess after his term ~ it will STILL be Bush's fault. If you aren't interested in it, no one is twisting your arm forcing you to do so. Simply don't participate.
Responded in bold above.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:41 PM
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Oh my goodness.....Wisconsin and Iowa have had 5 by Sept. 1st and 5 by Septmber 15th for more than 30 yrs to enter kindergarten. For many, many years parents with kids with summer birthdays often times hold their late birthday child back for kindergarten until they are 6. You have had some really young kindergarteners in CA.!
And I think that now (in my area at least) they are beginning to realize that as well. They are now slowly pushing the deadline further and further back because we have so many really young Kindergartners that simply are not ready for Kindy.

Crystal made a comment about how many children don't get to go to preschool or daycare and so don't get to benefit from the social skills that other kids to get to work on and so I think that's what the transitional-kinder is supposed to address. The younger kids get to "practice" in a pre-school type environment to prepare for kindy but it's not as structured as kindy. I for one am glad that we are doing this, I think it's because so many of our kindergarten kids were struggling and not enjoying school because of the pressure .
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:04 PM
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Oh good grief! I can't understand how everything that is wrong with this country - the worst it has been in my lifetime - is the fault of Bush. Obama, God help us, is the POTUS now, and he is making things progressively worse, each day he is in office.

Trying to stanardize preschool and child care is just one more step towards the socialist government he is trying to sneak by the uninformed members of society. Everything in this country is NOT equal. That is why it is important to WORK for what you want in life. We were not founded on the principles that everything will be equal and government mandated.

Parents have the right to choose what type of early childhood program they want their child to attend. If I want my child learning to read at age one, that is my choice. If I want him to carry around a blanket and bake cookies until he is in kindergarten - also my choice. It is important to have the variety of program styles available, so parents can exercise their own free will in determining how they want their chld educated.

Much like universal healthcare, this is just another program that will help the "I don't need to work to live a great life" members of our society keep right on living that way. Once again, when it is all said and done, the quality of care will be sacrificed to make things "equal".

I work hard for my money, so my children can have the best that our country has to offer. I don't work hard so everyone in the country's children can have access to the fruits of my labor. If they want a better life or opportunity - WORK FOR IT!

This preschool plan is just another way for the government to control how we live our lives. I am not interested in that lifestyle. Please let these four years end before this man can do any more damage to the country. And, without a doubt, when the country is a mess after his term ~ it will STILL be Bush's fault.
I agree! And regarding the difference in the US between when Bush took office and when he left, there is a HUGE reason that everything went downhill......911, followed by a war on terrorism, then Katrina. He may not have handled everything perfectly, but you have to at least give ANY president some credit for having to deal with all of those things...no wonder it was a mess at the end! What is Obama's excuse (besides the easy copout...."he inherited a mess")?

Obama hasn't done one thing to uplift this country since he took office. Instead of dealing with the real issues at hand that everyone can agree with (which are stimulating the economy, bringing up unemployment, making us more oil independent and getting us out of war), he added a ton of debt to us and our children and their children without solving one of those problems or even one step in the right direction! He basically got a credit card in my name, bought a bunch of things that I don't think was necessary and pushed the tab to my children and their children. Now, instead of trying to pay off that debt, he is taking away my personal income (and my husbands) and pushing us to become more and more dependent on the government.

We as a nation are being pushed further and further from being one of the top major developed countries. I'm seriously scared of what we are leaving for our children! I'm scared of the education my children will receive! I'm scared that there won't be enough educated people in this nation to even compete with the other countries! Instead of putting so much emphasis on the curriculum of the very young (when they need more time learning the most important social and family skills), we need to put our focus on improving the school system we already have in place (because that is where we are failing as a nation, not in our 5 and under crowd). And if a parent wants their children to attend early education preschools....fine, that is their choice (something that lacks in his newest agenda).
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:07 PM
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I agree! And regarding the difference in the US between when Bush took office and when he left, there is a HUGE reason that everything went downhill......911, followed by a war on terrorism, then Katrina. He may not have handled everything perfectly, but you have to at least give ANY president some credit for having to deal with all of those things...no wonder it was a mess at the end! What is Obama's excuse (besides the easy copout...."he inherited a mess")?

Obama hasn't done one thing to uplift this country since he took office. Instead of dealing with the real issues at hand that everyone can agree with (which are stimulating the economy, bringing up unemployment, making us more oil independent and getting us out of war), he added a ton of debt to us and our children and their children without solving one of those problems or even one step in the right direction! He basically got a credit card in my name, bought a bunch of things that I don't think was necessary and pushed the tab to my children and their children. Now, instead of trying to pay off that debt, he is taking away my personal income (and my husbands) and pushing us to become more and more dependent on the government.

We as a nation are being pushed further and further from being one of the top major developed countries. I'm seriously scared of what we are leaving for our children! I'm scared of the education my children will receive! I'm scared that there won't be enough educated people in this nation to even compete with the other countries! Instead of putting so much emphasis on the curriculum of the very young (when they need more time learning the most important social and family skills), we need to put our focus on improving the school system we already have in place (because that is where we are failing as a nation, not in our 5 and under crowd). And if a parent wants their children to attend early education preschools....fine, that is their choice (something that lacks in his newest agenda).
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:11 PM
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And I think that now (in my area at least) they are beginning to realize that as well. They are now slowly pushing the deadline further and further back because we have so many really young Kindergartners that simply are not ready for Kindy.

Crystal made a comment about how many children don't get to go to preschool or daycare and so don't get to benefit from the social skills that other kids to get to work on and so I think that's what the transitional-kinder is supposed to address. The younger kids get to "practice" in a pre-school type environment to prepare for kindy but it's not as structured as kindy. I for one am glad that we are doing this, I think it's because so many of our kindergarten kids were struggling and not enjoying school because of the pressure .

I think this is where cookie cutter theories that every child needs pre-k or every child should learn to read, write and do math by the age of 6 is falling short.

My son started kindy - having never attended daycare or pre-k - three weeks after he turned 5 and he's done amazingly well. The only reason I went that route is because after much contemplation of his kindy eval and review of how he interacted with the world it seemed more than reasonable to do so. He tests off the charts compared to his class, district and nationwide standards and he's got plenty of friends. He hasn't been stressed about the work load and he absolutely ADORES school, homework included. If he'd have waited another year he'd have been bored out of his mind and I think that definitely could have hurt him in the long run.

It worked for him. And I'm not against 5 year olds or even 4 year olds making that leap if they are actually ready. Heck, if you're a 2 year old genius ready to graduate by 10 more power to ya.

My trouble is with what AmyLeigh pointed out. That if lots of kids are encouraged by the government pushing them to go earlier and earlier it's going to become a social norm, something that's expected, and THAT'S what's going to land so many kids in a pickle. I completely believe that's the catalyst when addressing what is wrong with the public education system to date.

Each kiddo is different. Each kiddo may need different things to excel. When you have a class of 40 to one teacher there's no way they can provide that and so many many kids end up falling through the cracks.

The government shouldn't be telling parents pre-k is necessary.

The government shouldn't be regulating what constitutes an adequate pre-k or dictating what every single child supposedly needs.

Fact is they tried via a program they designed and the proof is in the puddin'
it just didn't work. In the end there was no real benefit to the children Obama still claims today that it saved. That's not my opinion, those are the findings of the professionals who evaluated the whole shebang.



Kids don't necessarily need daycare or pre-k to be socialized or become intelligent human beings. It certainly shouldn't become mandatory and I sure hope it never becomes a social norm parents feel pressured to compete with.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:18 PM
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I think this is where cookie cutter theories that every child needs pre-k or every child should learn to read, write and do math by the age of 6 is falling short.

My son started kindy - having never attended daycare or pre-k - three weeks after he turned 5 and he's done amazingly well. The only reason I went that route is because after much contemplation of his kindy eval and review of how he interacted with the world it seemed more than reasonable to do so. He tests off the charts compared to his class, district and nationwide standards and he's got plenty of friends. He hasn't been stressed about the work load and he absolutely ADORES school, homework included. If he'd have waited another year he'd have been bored out of his mind and I think that definitely could have hurt him in the long run.

It worked for him. And I'm not against 5 year olds or even 4 year olds making that leap if they are actually ready. Heck, if you're a 2 year old genius ready to graduate by 10 more power to ya.

My trouble is with what AmyLeigh pointed out. That if lots of kids are encouraged by the government pushing them to go earlier and earlier it's going to become a social norm, something that's expected, and THAT'S what's going to land so many kids in a pickle. I completely believe that's the catalyst when addressing what is wrong with the public education system to date.

Each kiddo is different. Each kiddo may need different things to excel. When you have a class of 40 to one teacher there's no way they can provide that and so many many kids end up falling through the cracks.

The government shouldn't be telling parents pre-k is necessary.

The government shouldn't be regulating what constitutes an adequate pre-k or dictating what every single child supposedly needs.

Fact is they tried via a program they designed and the proof is in the puddin'
it just didn't work. In the end there was no real benefit to the children Obama still claims today that it saved. That's not my opinion, those are the findings of the professionals who evaluated the whole shebang.



Kids don't necessarily need daycare or pre-k to be socialized or become intelligent human beings. It certainly shouldn't become mandatory and I sure hope it never becomes a social norm parents feel pressured to compete with.
You keep referring to this publicly funded program that didn't work. The only program I know of is Head Start and there are longitudal studies that show that it DOES work. Can you please refer me to some statitistics that give me some proof that pre-k doesn't "work"?
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:47 PM
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You keep referring to this publicly funded program that didn't work. The only program I know of is Head Start and there are longitudal studies that show that it DOES work. Can you please refer me to some statitistics that give me some proof that pre-k doesn't "work"?
It may be different in your state, but where I am from, Head Start is well-known as an abysmal failure.

I think the point that is being made about preschool is not that is isn't beneficial, but rather that children don't need to attend preschool in order to succeed in kindergarten. The fact that it is being included under the public school umbrella is the issue. Our schools are already under-funded, under-staffed, and a general mess. We need to fix that problem before we add one more level of education to the public school system.

I am a suipporter of preschool, but I also know many children who have not gone that have been incredibly successful scholars.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:00 PM
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Well I guess my DD is going to have a terrible life because she will NOT be going to preschool and will be nearly 6 when she starts kindergarten (her birthday is in Nov so she misses the Sept cut off).

Maybe we should actually work on the education system we have. Our K-12 system is a mess and to some extent a joke, why add to it with universal preschool?

I'm for dealing with the problems we already have before we just pile more on.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:18 PM
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It's money this country doesn't have, to put into a program that's already proven not to work, and even more government intrusion that the vast majority of providers do not want.

Kids need to learn through play when they're toddlers, not be pushed to learn things they should be learning K-2nd/3rd grade. I could teach the kids in my care algebra when they're here *or* I could teach them manners, respect, self care/help skills and how to control their emotions so they can actually do something productive with the algebra they learn someday.
My son's preschool teacher teaches him both...He is learning to read, write, be a good friend, and more while at preschool. I see nothing wrong with this proposal. Let's say nothing is done with our education system. How would our country fare in 30 years if kids keep failing to meet the standard requirements? This all can start when they are 3 or 4 and they can still have fun learning what they need to. In Ohio kids need to know how to write their names by kindergarten, which is fine with me because my son needs to know how to write his name for the rest of his life. I know that I only want what is best for this country and education is a good start.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:30 PM
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I'm not sure how I feel about Universal Preschool.

Food for thought: I have seen many providers here who are inspired by the Reggio Emilia approach. I went to a college that taught this philosophy in it's early childhood program and I am inspired by it as well. This approach was created by a city that devotes 12% of it's budget to infant, toddler, & preschool programs. It is very successful for them
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:50 PM
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http://reason.org/blog/show/head-sta...federal-presch

My favorite quote about head start.

Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner concluded in their bestseller Freakonomics, based on an extensive regression anlysis, that the federal Head Start preschool program doesn't work. They write, “Instead of spending the day with his own undereducated, overworked mother, the typical Head Start child spends the day with someone else’s undereducated, overworked mother.”
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:00 PM
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http://reason.org/blog/show/head-sta...federal-presch

My favorite quote about head start.

Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner concluded in their bestseller Freakonomics, based on an extensive regression anlysis, that the federal Head Start preschool program doesn't work. They write, “Instead of spending the day with his own undereducated, overworked mother, the typical Head Start child spends the day with someone else’s undereducated, overworked mother.”
Once again, Nannyde nails it. Perfect quote, and true in every experience I ever had with Head Start.

I have seen many Head Start programs, as I used to evaluate potential student's in their educational environments before enrolling them in our public school special needs preschool. I can attest to the lackluster education provided firsthand.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:02 PM
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I guess im in favor of this because i don't see anything wrong with it. And obama got a second term because more people voted for him, its as simple as that. I agree with person that obama had a load to clean up after bush. I always remind people that yall gave bush 8 years to make a mess so why would you expect Obama to clean it up in 4?
I agree with you and Crystal!
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:05 PM
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"He was elected a second term because the MAJORITY do support him."


The majority of WHO?

If you break down who actually voted for him it wasn't the majority of people in this country who are working and paying taxes to pay for all of the agendas he pushes.

That's not me being a meanie, that's statistic and fact.

Sure everyone counts as an individual on some level, but is it fair that people who AREN'T paying for these programs should be able to cast a vote that forces *other* people to??

I guess that can be debated but I personally think it's ridiculous.

Add to that, he may have won the electoral college votes but the popular vote was split literally right down the middle. HALF of this country's people did not believe he was fit to run this country..

HALF.


In the grand scheme of all the elections ever held that is a doozy of a number and shows a severe lack of confidence on a vast amount of American's parts.



And yes, everyone knows everything was George Bush's fault, that's why this country is further in debt than it ever has been 4+ years AFTER Obama came in to fix everything
You hit the nail on the head, Willow.... At this point, Obama can't use Bush as the scapegoat for the issues our country is facing. Sorry, you don't get to blame your predecessor over 4 years later. Obama is doing a very "good" job of messing up this country all on his own. I am very concerned for my children who are going to be paying for Obama's constant additions to entitlements which will make thier taxes outrageous. It is not "the government" who pays for all of these programs, it is everyone who pays taxes. Obama won the election because there are still too many people out there who think they can get something for nothing.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:10 PM
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No, the people pay for it. The government does not.

We don't have money for this. We have a broken public school system so why add to that?!?!

I support early education but I also know there is NO significant proof that children who have early childhood education do any better than the next kid who didn't have it. (with the exception of low income children)

I think that what early childhood aged children need is more face time with their parents, more enriched quality care NOT education.

The money for this would be far better spent if it was for mothers (and fathers) to have longer maternity leaves, more education on health, safety and quality parenting skills.
My husband was just reading me an article the other day about the research on these types of early education programs that were done at a state level. I believe it said that by 3rd grade, the children in the early education program had lost any lead they had on children who were not in the early education programs studied. It was a ton of money put into something that did not have lasting impact. I will have to try to find the article he was looking at to get specifics.

.....found it, it is from the Washington Examiner:
http://reason.com/archives/2013/03/0...l-is-a-failure

Last edited by saved4always; 03-07-2013 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Found article so added link
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
http://reason.org/blog/show/head-sta...federal-presch

My favorite quote about head start.

Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner concluded in their bestseller Freakonomics, based on an extensive regression anlysis, that the federal Head Start preschool program doesn't work. They write, “Instead of spending the day with his own undereducated, overworked mother, the typical Head Start child spends the day with someone else’s undereducated, overworked mother.”
Here is a recent add for a head start teacher for our area. I really do not see how the person would be under educated:

MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: Bachelor's
degree in
early childhood education OR degree and coursework equivalent to early childhood education WITH experience teaching preschool-age children OR an Associate's degree in early childhood education AND must be able to obtain a Bachelor's degree in early childhood education by September 30, 2013. At time of appointment, must possess valid driver's license and be enrolled in the Criminal History Registry. Following appointment, within 30 days of employment, must: acquire a first aid card and food handler's card and renew as necessary to keep current, have a valid Oregon drivers license and participate in staff health appraisal.
NOTE: Qualified applicants with bilingual capabilities in English/Spanish, will be given extra consideration.

DRIVING RECORD: Applicants selected for interview will be required to bring to the interview a recent Court Print driving history obtained from the DMV. Please allow 3-5 days for delivery and longer for out of state.

In addition to the above, applications will receive further evaluation based on the following: Knowledge of: Considerable knowledge of child development; considerable knowledge of educational curriculum and development of child progress plans. Skill in: Planning and implementing lessons, observing, identifying, and recording children's levels of development; basic use of
computers
. Ability to: Communicate effectively in both oral and written forms; make decisions independently in accordance with established policies, and use initiative and judgment in carrying out tasks and responsibilities; work within a team structure; estimate time and materials to manage time efficiently; multi-task; establish and maintain records, reports, and statistical data; represent Head Start in a variety of settings; maintain confidentiality; utilize problem identification and resolution techniques; remain calm and use good judgment during confrontational or high pressure situations; use large and small group leadership skills; courteously meet and deal effectively with coworkers, children, families and the public.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:39 PM
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Here is a recent add for a head start teacher for our area. I really do not see how the person would be under educated:

MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: Bachelor's
degree in
early childhood education OR degree and coursework equivalent to early childhood education WITH experience teaching preschool-age children OR an Associate's degree in early childhood education AND must be able to obtain a Bachelor's degree in early childhood education by September 30, 2013. At time of appointment, must possess valid driver's license and be enrolled in the Criminal History Registry. Following appointment, within 30 days of employment, must: acquire a first aid card and food handler's card and renew as necessary to keep current, have a valid Oregon drivers license and participate in staff health appraisal.
NOTE: Qualified applicants with bilingual capabilities in English/Spanish, will be given extra consideration.

DRIVING RECORD: Applicants selected for interview will be required to bring to the interview a recent Court Print driving history obtained from the DMV. Please allow 3-5 days for delivery and longer for out of state.

In addition to the above, applications will receive further evaluation based on the following: Knowledge of: Considerable knowledge of child development; considerable knowledge of educational curriculum and development of child progress plans. Skill in: Planning and implementing lessons, observing, identifying, and recording children's levels of development; basic use of
computers
. Ability to: Communicate effectively in both oral and written forms; make decisions independently in accordance with established policies, and use initiative and judgment in carrying out tasks and responsibilities; work within a team structure; estimate time and materials to manage time efficiently; multi-task; establish and maintain records, reports, and statistical data; represent Head Start in a variety of settings; maintain confidentiality; utilize problem identification and resolution techniques; remain calm and use good judgment during confrontational or high pressure situations; use large and small group leadership skills; courteously meet and deal effectively with coworkers, children, families and the public.
Key words are "spend the days with"

Of course they have licensed teachers but the teachers aren't the ones taking care of the kids.

It's like nursing homes... there are nurses there but they aren't the ones doing the hands on care of the residents. The vast majority of the cares are being done by low level workers.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:45 PM
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I am sure it is different everywhere, but I can attest to the Head Start programs here being high quality. Over the past three years I have conducted ECERS on the same 20 headstart programs. Each year they have significantly improved on their scores and last year were very close to achieving the highest score - 7. They LISTENED to my feedback and took it seriously. They implemented changes neccessary to improve their programs, although they scored well the first time. They, beginning this year, require ALL teachers to have a Bachelor's Degree. These children are leaps and bounds ahead of children who have not had the opportunity to attend quality programs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:53 PM
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I am sure it is different everywhere, but I can attest to the Head Start programs here being high quality. Over the past three years I have conducted ECERS on the same 20 headstart programs. Each year they have significantly improved on their scores and last year were very close to achieving the highest score - 7. They LISTENED to my feedback and took it seriously. They implemented changes neccessary to improve their programs, although they scored well the first time. They, beginning this year, require ALL teachers to have a Bachelor's Degree. These children are leaps and bounds ahead of children who have not had the opportunity to attend quality programs.
Isn't it really sad that a program that has had BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars spent on it for DECADES needs a you to improve their program?
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