My 6AM-4PM dcf are moving the beginning of next month and I started yesterday with a new dcf that will replace them as full time. I have only ever done 6AM-6PM and have never had to offer dinner but, I decided that I would accept this family needing care from 9:30am-7:30pm. DCB is 3 years old and DCG is 6 months old.

Now, like I said, I have never had to offer a dinner before and the 3 year old is such a picky eater! I had originally planned on feeding him whatever I was making for dinner that night and if he didn't eat, he didn't it. I wasn't going to play the "I'll make you something special game" But when I made Chicken, carrots, corn, and broccoli last night, he of course wanted nothing to do with it!

So, feeling bad that he wasn't eating anything and would probably be going home straight to bed after being picked up at 7:30pm, I made him a ham and cheese sandwich and then felt horrible the rest of the night that he didn't get a hot meal!!

Therefore, my first question is: What do you all do about dinner time? Do you feed your DCKs what your whole family is eating, do you make your whole family something you know that your DCKs will like?

And then secondly, what do you do with them when it is dark out and your family is home? My husband gets home at 3PM, does his homework, plays with our DS, eats his dinner, and then wants to unwind. Which is no problem but I feel like I am running out of things to do with DCB at this time. Last night, we all had dinner and then we just played quietly until their parents came to get them because I figured being all wound up is not what their parents want at the end of their long day.....

I am probably over thinking all of this BUT I guess my main question is just what are your schedules for the day for kids that are with you 'til later in the evening?

I really need some ideas here to keep my business and my family running smoothly!

Sorry for the long post!!!

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If you have to care for these DCk's past your normal hours, then yes they get the same food that you make your family.

They are there during YOUR family time, so they get treated the same way. Your kids get ready for bed, get the dck's in jammies too. Same snack, same bed rituals same everything.

I did this for a while and it just didnt work out for our family, My hubby hated it.

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Ah thank you. That makes me feel better that I don't have to be doing something special while my family is here too.

I think my hubby is going to hate it too BUT it is only 3 days a week. He is the one that wanted me to go for it and not look around more as he was afraid of how we would be financially though. I wish I would have charged them more though..

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When I have children later at night, I feed them what my family is eating, and after dinner we sit down and watch a movie. Now with that said, I don't have kids late every day so .... I did have an older sibling pair from 5-8pm every day for 9 months. They played board games, occasionally I'd let them play Wii ... but a 3 year old ... My daughter is also 3 and honestly we use that time to wind down, cuddle with books and do quiet activities ...

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Oh GF you are so going to regret this sooner than you know it..I can speak of it first hand. I got suckered into it for the same reasons as you and it was the worst decision I ever made... No amount of money is worth invading your personal family time.

First off is there anyway that you can cut bills so that you can let this family go?

the reason I ask this, is becuase i just went through this. I was so being taken advantage of and I just was so exhausted at the end of the day that there was NO time left for me or my family.

I made it very clear that the kids would eat what we eat and if they don't like it oh well too bad... You can lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink.

I don't do special food, I don't do special meals. UNLESS there is a doctors note stating why.

I hope that you are getting paid very well. I am not too sure how far into this you are, but if theres any way out, I would try to find it. Before you know it, everyone in your entire family is going to be miserable, mostly you.

so sorry you are in this siutaion..... I had to learn the hard way NEVER change your hours to suit just one family.

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This is my 2nd day with them and so I technically have 12 more days until our trial period is over (12 more care days). I'm glad I posted this now to see what everyone thought. I am NOT licensed and so I guess I have this issue feeling like since I am not licensed I should be charging way less for child care than if I was. So......I am actually getting $125/week so $500/month. And today they came 15 minutes early so I had ZERO time to even brace myself for these hours.

Last night, I was so exhausted I couldn't even think. I had to run errands after they left with my 8 month old and so I didn't get home 'til 9:00 and then LO was in bed by 10 (no big deal since he slept 'til 10 today...) But I could barely even move my body when we got back from running errands I was so tired. And I can just see every night being like this. BUT it is only 3 days a week I keep telling myself.....

UGH..

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This is a good thread to read:

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=movie

First, I want you to consider that even tho you are doing three days a week you are actually putting in six shifts for these kids. You are doing three day shifts and three evening shifts. I hope you are being fully compensated.

If I had kids on this shift I would do as I suggested in the evening thread:

Supper at 5:30 p.m.
Movie from 6 to 7:30 p.m.

Infant would eat bottle at five and then evening nap from 5:30 to 7:30 p.m.

The older kid needs a LONG afternoon nap so that he's able to stay up with his parents until eleven or so. This would give them 3-3.5 hours of awake time with him when they get home.

Even though they are picking up at this time the kids still need AWAKE time with them in the evening. Make sure they are well rested when they get picked up. If they pick up at 7:30 and go to bed at eleven p.m. it's the EXACT SAME schedule as a parent picking up at 4:30 p.m. and putting the kids to bed at 8 p.m.

My advice is to get paid FULL time plus for the extra shift (they aren't there the WHOLE evening shift BUT they are there all the WAKING hours of the evening shift... I did it for about fourteen/fifteen years... trust me on this) AND make sure the last couple of hours they are there that they are either sleeping or doing a restful passive activity. Having them go to bed right when they get home isn't any different than a parent picking up at four p.m. and having them go to bed at 4:30 p.m. These parents have the same 24 hours in a day as everyone else and they NEED to have AWAKE face time with their kids. You need to PACE your shift with them for the least amount of work possible the last two hours so YOU and your family can have some family time. Don't worry about the kids having their family time with you... they will have that at home with their own family... it will just start a few hours later than the average family.

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here's my opinion.....do not do this. there are so many things you don't know and can't see yet because you are new to daycare. I don't think that you will be able to fix all the issues to make this work for you (especially with your own young kids in the mix). find families that work within the hours you already provide (and I wouldn't work more than 10 hours a day, preferably 9 per family). you can try and play with hours and such down the road after you have gotten your feet wet doing home daycare. the fact that the kids are there all their waking hours and parents are still showing up early is a big, big red flag that things are going to get crazy fast. please don't do this to yourself.

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Thank you very much for the advice nanny. I think I am going to print this whole thread out and study it! I have ZERO backbone and I NEED to grow one.

SO, my question now is: Am I sh** out of luck now because I already agreed to $125/week for these hours? And I am talking $125/week for both kids, not PER kid. So thats $500/month. (slaps forehead- STUPID STUPID ME). Or since we are in our 14 day probation period can I let them know this isn't working at this rate and if they want to stay with me here is the rate increase ____?

:/

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what does your contract say about changing rates or terming during a probation period? your contract needs to be written to work for you, not against you. you don't HAVE to work forever for peanuts just because you originally made a mistake and under charged.

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I was actually reading a thread this morning where someone said that they went off on their DCM because she came early and I was thinking to myself "Oh lord, I am such a push over for letting them in the house at 9:15".....Their shift starts at 10AM. They live a few blocks from me and I used to work at the location they do. It's a 30 minute drive from here to there. No reason they need 45 minutes to get there and I shouldn't have to care who they are picking up on the way.

The DCM came in and said "we were late yesterday..."

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I occationally allow my current daycare families to stay late if they get into a bind(I have GREAT families). I make it clear that after 5 "daycare" is over and they are part of the family. They eat with the family, hang out with the family, play by them selves or with my children(I won't entertain). At one point in my daycare career I considered taking on 2nd shift children to get started. One thing you might want to consider is that you might need to charge a little more for there meal. Family meals will considerable have more expensive meats in them compared to the average daycare lunch. I will give my own children peanut butter and jelly sandwitches if they don't eat there supper so I'd do the same for the daycare child if they were here at dinner. I feel a ham and cheese is above and behond for a child who didn't like what was served. I think most providers would say tough luck if they didn't eat what was served(I'm kind of a softy too). If they didn't eat there supper I'd just let the parents know. Its up to them if they want to try to get something in there tummy before bed then.

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"An extra fee of $5.00 per child for every 15 minutes or portion thereof that your child is dropped off earlier than your contracted arrival time"

^^^That is what it says for early drop off.

"The first two weeks of childcare are an adjustment period. It is my responsibility to let you know if your child seems unhappy or the arrangement is unsatisfactory for any reason."

^^Thats what is says about the first 14 days basically. Not much more on that and I suppose it is open to interpretation on what can be deemed unsatisfactory....

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when I did this, I also short changed myself.

After two weeks, I came back and said (like a dummy) after i did all of the math accoutning for all of the time and meals, I will need to change the rate to this instead. The DCF said ok. But it still was not enough to keep me and my family happy..

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I originally said $150/week for the two kids. And they said $125 so it wouldn't be a stretch. I agreed if they brought snacks every day for the 3 yr old... Now, I feel like I am at the point where since I agreed to that I must be a push over in their eyes....

Does anyone have a rough estimate of the amount of money I should be charging weekly for these two kids being an unlicensed provider?

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Yikes
that's really low pay

2.08 per hour per kid

You have to decide for yourself if you can get by with raising it. I doubt VERY much that they can get someone else to do that. It's the HARDEST shift of all. When I did 24 hour care I wouldn't even INTERVIEW with a family with those hours because they took up a full day and a full evening slot and both shifts hit prime time awake time.

There was no way to make money on it because you are giving them the full evening slot ... work wise... but not making money when they are sleeping on the evening shift.

I wanted two shifts of pay for this shift and no one would want to pay that.

You really would be better off to just DO an evening shift if you are willing to work until 7:30 p.m. You could have a family coming IN at 2:30 and the kids going to bed at 7 p.m. and all you would have to do is get up at eleven to let them out the door. Think about that...

It would mean NOT having them from 9:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. and making the same amount of money... but having to get up at eleven or eleven thirty to scoot them out the door.

You are basically exchanging sleeping hours on the evening shift for awake hours on the day shift. I would rather do the evening shift if I'm going to have kids up till 7:30 p.m. I want the PAY from 7"30 p.m. to eleven when they are SLEEPING...

the only thing you are missing in their deal is the PAY from bedtime till they get picked up at eleven p.m. Do you see that?

I think you should consider just trying to fill a day slot for 125 and being done with your day at a reasonable hour. One kid on the day slot would pay the same as two kids three days a week until seven thirty p.m. I would rather have one on the same shift as the other kids then two three days a week SO late in the evening.

One thing too to consider is that they have most likely had a TON of people say NO to their shift. It has to be tough finding someone to do those hours and to do it SOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHEAP. They struck a heck of a deal with you. The thing about DEALS like this tho is that the provider figures out REALLY quickly how HARD it is and most often just gives up as soon as ANY deal even close to the money comes along.

The failure rate on these hours is super high. Especially if the parents are doing the "put to bed" right when they get home. The kids act terribly because they don't have any face awake time with the kids and the parents become disenfranchised from the care of their own kids if they have someone else doing nearly every waking minute. It is TERRIBLE for the parents and the kids. You can't be close to your kid if the only time you are with them is when they are asleep.

When you have a parent on this shift and they put the kids to bed right away then they SHOULD have some time in the morning BUT if the kids are getting up SUPER early in the morning then you are going to have them ready for an afternoon nap when they arrive at 9:30.

It's a tough shift to manage because the parental alienation deal can make for alot of problems with parents and kids. Even though their total hours are within the norm... the TIME that they actually come makes them feel they have the pass to just put their kids to bed right after day care. If you THINK about what a kid would do who was there from seven a.m. to five and went to bed at 5:30 p.m. ... imagine what THAT kid would be like. That's what kids on THIS shift look like after some time.

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$125 total per week sounds really low for 3 days a week, especially for those hours. They are at your house for 10 hour days!

What do you charge per day for part-time? I charge $50 a day for part-time (open 9 hours a day). If I was doing the shift you are talking about (which I personally wouldn't), I would charge $50 per child per day, plus extra for the evening hours and the extra 1 hour over my total open hours per day. So I would charge at least $300 per week, plus a little extra--so probably $330.

It still wouldn't be worth it to me at all to watch kids until 7:30 for any amount of money. Also, you are going to have a crabby 6 month old in the evenings. Bedtime after 7:30 for an infant is really late.

If you decide not to, I'd give them the 12 day period and then tell them that it is not working out. And if you do keep them, definitely raise the rate and let them take it or leave it.

For the food situation--3 year old eats what your family is eating or gets nothing if it were my house.

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being that you are in a different area, its hard to help you with rates. My rates here where I live I am sure are much different where you live.

I would call around your area and see what others are charging. maybe take a look on craigs list and see what others are charging.

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I have a family that does drop-in care and I occasionally take care of dcb 1 day a week from 4:45 to 7:45 p.m. while she is in her late class. To me it's no biggie and no trouble at all. I charge her time-and-a-half what I would charge for drop in for hours after 6pm so I get $20 for those 3 hours which makes it worth it for me.

I serve him whatever we eat for dinner and because he's a VERY picky eater and sometimes wouldn't eat what I served him dcm brings him a packaged dinner that I just have to warm up for him. I also make it clear that my normal daycare hours are until 6pm and so any time after that dcb will do whatever my family and I does and that includes TV time. He doesn't get "daycare" activities after 6pm, more like free play. It works for the both of us and has turned out very well.

Of course it has worked out well for me because I prepared for any type of situation beforehand. I had already planned out what I was going to charge for regular FT, PT and drop-in rates and then figured out what I would charge for evening and weekends. The difference is that I WANT to care for children on evenings and weekends because I WANT to make extra money. I make it affordable enough that parents want to use this service but I also make it worth my while. I set the price beforehand and that's the price, no bargaining or haggling. You take it or you don't.

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And here I am thinking I need to be waking them up from their LONG afternoon naps so that they go to bed on time for their parents. Silly me!!!

I would LOVE to do just an evening shift and advertised for both and landed this one and took it right away because I was afraid of how long I would have to wait for something else to come along. I just settled. If I did a REAL evening shift, my husband could change to a 3-midnight swing shift at work and we could have all our family time the first part of the day!

I totally feel like I just settled on this. And I am sure they were hard pressed to find someone that meets their every need and probably are elated they found such a push over in me. They said they were getting so sick all the time in their old daycare and that's why they changed- which yes, I can see that they are both getting over colds right now but I almost bet that their last daycare couldn't accommodate these hours.

I think what I will do, since the 14th day of care falls on the 22nd of November, is to try to get them on a REAL schedule with the evening being very quiet and low key and see how it goes. And see how it goes with their parents as far as payment, drop off/pick up times, etc. And look at my grocery bill for the added meals and then make my decision....

It's hard though to figure out a schedule when you have 2 infants and an older kid because I LOVE my "break time" during nap time- and with this shift I am going to NEED it to regroup. It is nap time right now and the 6 month old went down at 11:30. My son went down at 12 and then the 3y old went down at 1:00 and it is now 2:40 almost and everyone is still napping!

But, I know that they will not always nap at the same time and so I may always have one of them awake depending on the time of day...

Sigh... there are just too many variables in this silly shift.

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Thanks so much to all of you. I am going to print this out and have a real sit down with my husband tonight to figure this all out and figure out what the 500/month is worth to him in the long run for all the hassle this is turning out to be. AND its only day 2!!!!!

I have gotten a lot of insight on how I should be presenting this service and you all have made me feel like my time IS worth something and I should be getting paid something that reflects that.

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I though about it some more and came back to post. First off many providers charge weekly for 10 hours a day (50 hours a week). That being said think about doing this also. Charge a flat weekly rate for "scheduled hours" and charge for enrollment, not attendance. In other words if they don't come, they still pay.

"Care is charged on a flat weekly rate which is based on enrollment not attendance and so any days a child is absent due to sickness, appointments, etc. will not be deducted. "

I cannot stress how important it is for you to charge them for the week in advance NOT at the end of the week after you've already watched the kids.

Also get them to sign a consent to transport. As I said before when I take care of a kid past 6pm or on weekends they are one of us and do what we do as a family and that includes running errands. If you need to go to the store you should be able to take the DCK's with you. I even provide the carseats.

Make sure you have a contract and policy book. Here are a few things that I recomend you add to their contract. Keep in mind that it is in fact a trial period and that you can always tell them that is it NOT working for you and that in order for it to work out you need to make changes.

*Decide what you want to charge for FT first and put a time cap on it (10 hours a day/50 hours a week) and then charge an hourly rate for any time that they go over 10 hours a day or 50 hours a week. Then decide how many hours/days you consider PT to be and charge slightly more per hour for that. Decide whether you want to do a daily rate or hourly rate and this should be more than PT. Then figure out if you will offer childcare for evenings and weekends and make that rate more than drop-in.

*Set your daycare hours and add a policy about how parent's have to stick to their scheduled hours.
From my handbook: "The daycare’s regular hours are Monday through Friday 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. however, these hours are not necessarily the hours that you are allotted to bring your child. Hours for care will be discussed and a schedule will be set which includes a fair amount of commuting time and this will become your "scheduled hours". Care will be provided for your child only during these contracted hours. Any changes made to your schedule hours must be discussed and re-assessed based on the ability for the childcare provider to meet your new needs"

* Add a policy about dropping off earlier than the parent's scheduled time.
"There is an extra $5.00 fee per child for every fifteen minutes, or portion thereof, that your child is dropped off earlier than the contracted drop-off time without my prior approval. Please ask in advance if you ever need to drop-off earlier than your regular contracted time to make sure that this can be accommodated."

* Add a policy about dropping off late.
"If you are more than 15 minutes late to drop your child off without advance notice it can be assumed that your child will not be coming. At this point the spot can be filled by a drop-in or other client if the opportunity presents itself. If there are no other children contracted at that time the daycare may be closed. Payment is still expected for the day and it will be the parent's responsibility to find and finance alternate care for your child for that day.
Please note that late arrival does not allow for a late pick-up. If you are late in dropping your child off then your contracted pick-up time still applies and your child will still be required to be picked up at that time."

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Hey, I am having the similar issue current with the girl I watch. I have her til 7 and her mom keeps arriving later and later (have discussed late fees, but mom forgets and I hate remnding her constantly).

I was curious what you charge them for the week. I watch the girl 4 days a week, 3 days til 7 and about twice a month on a saturday.

I feel like I should charge them more (currently get $155) - as I do not feel there are really any options open til 7 and on saturdays. Just wanted to see what you charge them, etc.

Thanks!

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I was charging $125/week for two kids from 9:30-7:30 3 days per week. They are no longer in care as it turned out that the kids grandparents moved into town to care for them. I am pretty sure that they were just with me until the move date and that they were being dishonest about their intent for long term care.

Anyhow,$125 was extremely low obviously for the amount of work required and for them cutting into my family time.

I currently have a family in my care that comes anywhere between 1-4 days per week. The child is 6 months old and starts at 7am and is usually here until 2pm though there are days she is here until 8pm. I charge them $120/week for the flexibility to come whichever days they need (with notice). On average she comes 1-2 days though.

I don't know if that really helps you or not! My FT rate is $140/wk.

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I personally would never do 2nd shift daycare!! NO WAY!!! That is my own family time, along with the weekends!! My family is so busy, in the evening, between gymnastics, dance, softball, basketball, swimming lessons, and everything else, you must do in the evenings!!

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