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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>To write a letter or not
childcaremom 03:00 AM 05-23-2015
My same problem family.
In a nutshell:
*questions every time I enforce a policy
*has been here 5 weeks
Thursday night they were late for pick up and late fees were due. There was road construction. I am not sure if dcm was aware of construction or not. My policy is late fees are due regardless of reason why you are late.
Friday morning, dcd drops off. He then asks if it is fair if I charge late fees for something that they can't control. I state it is in my policies regardless of reason. He repeats that they can't control it. I suggest they have an alternate for pick up. He says that no one would have been able to get here due to traffic. There are 3 ways in to my subdivision. Then he says it doesn't matter that they couldn't get here b/c I would not be able to get out anyways to get my own children. ???? I just repeat that it's my policy. He hands over the late fees and leaves.
So I am steaming for plenty of reasons.
*Is it fair? Seriously?
How about, it is my policy. Period. How about, now I will have late fees for my own kids, do you think I will ask their caregiver if it is fair to have to pay them? How about, I am working extra unscheduled time and should be compensated for it? Argh.
Go on about our morning. Their little guy is acting off so I put him down for an early morning cat nap. Wake him for snack and he seems off still. I make a comment that he looks sick. His sister says that he is sick. Mommy had him in bed and said he felt really warm. So I always take what dcks tell me with a grain of salt, but seriously? You think he may be getting sick and drop him off anyway?
I call for pick up. Tell dcps that dcb has a fever and the kids will need to be picked up within an hour. My policy is one pu/do per day per family. Dcd questions me on having to pu dcg. Seriously. IT IS MY POLICY. That is all I said. Dcd says he will be here in 10 mins.
I get dcks ready, we are by the door....... for 50 mins. They almost got late fees, again, and actually I would have termed if they were late.
So.
I am actively looking to replace. It is dry out there. The most I am getting are requests for care in August. That is 9 weeks away! I will only have 1 dcb if I term now. Money is a factor but not a deciding issue.
My dh thinks I should write a letter and tell them that continuing to challenge my policies is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. He says it will either make them shape up or ship out. I feel like the air needs to be cleared but don't want to make it uncomfortable, kwim? Just a matter of fact, this is the way it is going to be, we cannot continue on like this. Not an ultimatum type letter I guess.
What do you all think?
I am writing this out and thinking to myself, just term already. I guess, though, I am looking for advice on how to continue this relationship. Standing my ground. Without dealing with anymore challenges. Is it possible?
In a nutshell:
*questions every time I enforce a policy
*has been here 5 weeks
Thursday night they were late for pick up and late fees were due. There was road construction. I am not sure if dcm was aware of construction or not. My policy is late fees are due regardless of reason why you are late.
Friday morning, dcd drops off. He then asks if it is fair if I charge late fees for something that they can't control. I state it is in my policies regardless of reason. He repeats that they can't control it. I suggest they have an alternate for pick up. He says that no one would have been able to get here due to traffic. There are 3 ways in to my subdivision. Then he says it doesn't matter that they couldn't get here b/c I would not be able to get out anyways to get my own children. ???? I just repeat that it's my policy. He hands over the late fees and leaves.
So I am steaming for plenty of reasons.
*Is it fair? Seriously?
How about, it is my policy. Period. How about, now I will have late fees for my own kids, do you think I will ask their caregiver if it is fair to have to pay them? How about, I am working extra unscheduled time and should be compensated for it? Argh.
Go on about our morning. Their little guy is acting off so I put him down for an early morning cat nap. Wake him for snack and he seems off still. I make a comment that he looks sick. His sister says that he is sick. Mommy had him in bed and said he felt really warm. So I always take what dcks tell me with a grain of salt, but seriously? You think he may be getting sick and drop him off anyway?
I call for pick up. Tell dcps that dcb has a fever and the kids will need to be picked up within an hour. My policy is one pu/do per day per family. Dcd questions me on having to pu dcg. Seriously. IT IS MY POLICY. That is all I said. Dcd says he will be here in 10 mins.
I get dcks ready, we are by the door....... for 50 mins. They almost got late fees, again, and actually I would have termed if they were late.
So.
I am actively looking to replace. It is dry out there. The most I am getting are requests for care in August. That is 9 weeks away! I will only have 1 dcb if I term now. Money is a factor but not a deciding issue.
My dh thinks I should write a letter and tell them that continuing to challenge my policies is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. He says it will either make them shape up or ship out. I feel like the air needs to be cleared but don't want to make it uncomfortable, kwim? Just a matter of fact, this is the way it is going to be, we cannot continue on like this. Not an ultimatum type letter I guess.
What do you all think?
I am writing this out and thinking to myself, just term already. I guess, though, I am looking for advice on how to continue this relationship. Standing my ground. Without dealing with anymore challenges. Is it possible?
Josiegirl 04:25 AM 05-23-2015
I tend to give leeway as to promptness of pick-up but I know some stick to their handbook rigidly. We all do it differently and what works for us and our situation. And I can certainly understand that. The illness policy being ignored would have me turning red. If you send a letter home I think I would keep it toned down a bit but do make them realize termination could be in their future if your policies are not followed.
Good luck and maybe it's a family you can end up working with and maybe not.
Good luck and maybe it's a family you can end up working with and maybe not.
finsup 04:34 AM 05-23-2015
You can write the letter and it may buy you some time, but I'd be willing to bet they go right back to doing it again in a few weeks. Or do something passive arregsive as a way to "get back" at you. My problem family did this all the time. It was one issue after another, always questioning/trying to righ policy. One was schedules must be turned in no later then 5pm Saturday, they challenged it like 4 different times and got mad when I refused to provide care. Then would give me their "excuses" 
I put up with it for a year. I was super strict, enforced everything, every time and it was still stressful. If you keep them, I def suggest doing that. As with the case with my problem family, its not about your policies, it's about them wanting control.
I put up with it for a year. I was super strict, enforced everything, every time and it was still stressful. If you keep them, I def suggest doing that. As with the case with my problem family, its not about your policies, it's about them wanting control.
childcaremom 04:57 AM 05-23-2015
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I tend to give leeway as to promptness of pick-up but I know some stick to their handbook rigidly. We all do it differently and what works for us and our situation. And I can certainly understand that. The illness policy being ignored would have me turning red. If you send a letter home I think I would keep it toned down a bit but do make them realize termination could be in their future if your policies are not followed.
Good luck and maybe it's a family you can end up working with and maybe not.
I tend to give leeway as to promptness of pick-up but I know some stick to their handbook rigidly. We all do it differently and what works for us and our situation. And I can certainly understand that. The illness policy being ignored would have me turning red. If you send a letter home I think I would keep it toned down a bit but do make them realize termination could be in their future if your policies are not followed.
Good luck and maybe it's a family you can end up working with and maybe not.
She was 24 minutes late. I am not upset that she was late for this reason. Things happen beyond our control. But late fees are still due. And this is her 5th time late.
childcaremom 05:00 AM 05-23-2015
Originally Posted by finsup:
You can write the letter and it may buy you some time, but I'd be willing to bet they go right back to doing it again in a few weeks. Or do something passive arregsive as a way to "get back" at you. My problem family did this all the time. It was one issue after another, always questioning/trying to righ policy. One was schedules must be turned in no later then 5pm Saturday, they challenged it like 4 different times and got mad when I refused to provide care. Then would give me their "excuses" I put up with it for a year. I was super strict, enforced everything, every time and it was still stressful. If you keep them, I def suggest doing that. As with the case with my problem family, its not about your policies, it's about them wanting control.
I have a pit in my stomach every time they pull up. What are they going to do/say/ask this time? Am I going to have to turn away for forgetting x, y or z?You can write the letter and it may buy you some time, but I'd be willing to bet they go right back to doing it again in a few weeks. Or do something passive arregsive as a way to "get back" at you. My problem family did this all the time. It was one issue after another, always questioning/trying to righ policy. One was schedules must be turned in no later then 5pm Saturday, they challenged it like 4 different times and got mad when I refused to provide care. Then would give me their "excuses"
I put up with it for a year. I was super strict, enforced everything, every time and it was still stressful. If you keep them, I def suggest doing that. As with the case with my problem family, its not about your policies, it's about them wanting control.I closed down last year in part to having to deal with families like this. I promised myself I wouldn't put up with it this time around and yet here I am.
I don't want to work with these people long term so at least I know there is an end.
And I am advertising like crazy. Hopefully I will get some bites for earlier care. Maybe if I clear the path (and term) I will hear from a good family?
Laurel 06:18 AM 05-23-2015
If there was construction he couldn't get around, I would have probably let it go BUT if you don't want to it is fine too. Then my response would have been "Yes, I realize it isn't your fault but it isn't my fault either and I had to work overtime. If you work overtime no matter what the reason then wouldn't you expect to be paid for it?"
If they are constantly questioning your policies after only 5 weeks then I would say it isn't a good fit.
I would also like to gently say that you closed once before and reopened because of difficulties with parents following policies. Are you sure your policies are not too restrictive? Not trying to be mean, really, but maybe it would be good to make sure you are not making too many rules or that there is no wiggle room if something unexpected comes up.
Laurel
If they are constantly questioning your policies after only 5 weeks then I would say it isn't a good fit.
I would also like to gently say that you closed once before and reopened because of difficulties with parents following policies. Are you sure your policies are not too restrictive? Not trying to be mean, really, but maybe it would be good to make sure you are not making too many rules or that there is no wiggle room if something unexpected comes up.
Laurel
finsup 06:29 AM 05-23-2015
Originally Posted by childcaremom:
I have a pit in my stomach every time they pull up. What are they going to do/say/ask this time? Am I going to have to turn away for forgetting x, y or z?
I closed down last year in part to having to deal with families like this. I promised myself I wouldn't put up with it this time around and yet here I am.
I don't want to work with these people long term so at least I know there is an end.
And I am advertising like crazy. Hopefully I will get some bites for earlier care. Maybe if I clear the path (and term) I will hear from a good family?
I got lucky and signed on a family a few days before terming them. It's most likely only for the summer which is the downside but I figure I would have termed problem family in October anyways. They violated sick policy a few times and I was def not dealing with that and a newborn at the start of cold and flu season! By yes, I so know that feeling I have a pit in my stomach every time they pull up. What are they going to do/say/ask this time? Am I going to have to turn away for forgetting x, y or z?
I closed down last year in part to having to deal with families like this. I promised myself I wouldn't put up with it this time around and yet here I am.
I don't want to work with these people long term so at least I know there is an end.
And I am advertising like crazy. Hopefully I will get some bites for earlier care. Maybe if I clear the path (and term) I will hear from a good family?
Its like what is it going to be now...it was just everything they challenged. Knowing there is an end helps Maybe try meeting with them, going over every policy again and tell them they are no longer open to discussion? Ugh I'm sorry I know all too well what a pain it is!
childcaremom 07:10 AM 05-23-2015
Originally Posted by Laurel:
If there was construction he couldn't get around, I would have probably let it go BUT if you don't want to it is fine too. Then my response would have been "Yes, I realize it isn't your fault but it isn't my fault either and I had to work overtime. If you work overtime no matter what the reason then wouldn't you expect to be paid for it?"
If they are constantly questioning your policies after only 5 weeks then I would say it isn't a good fit.
I would also like to gently say that you closed once before and reopened because of difficulties with parents following policies. Are you sure your policies are not too restrictive? Not trying to be mean, really, but maybe it would be good to make sure you are not making too many rules or that there is no wiggle room if something unexpected comes up.
Laurel
I appreciate this input and have looked at my policies thoroughly. Reviewed what seemed like excess and kept the things that are non-negotiable for me. I have waived late fees 4 times already for this family. It wouldn't be such a big deal if it was the only thing that had gone on with this family, kwim? It is just little things, all the time. They are almost as much work as their children.If there was construction he couldn't get around, I would have probably let it go BUT if you don't want to it is fine too. Then my response would have been "Yes, I realize it isn't your fault but it isn't my fault either and I had to work overtime. If you work overtime no matter what the reason then wouldn't you expect to be paid for it?"
If they are constantly questioning your policies after only 5 weeks then I would say it isn't a good fit.
I would also like to gently say that you closed once before and reopened because of difficulties with parents following policies. Are you sure your policies are not too restrictive? Not trying to be mean, really, but maybe it would be good to make sure you are not making too many rules or that there is no wiggle room if something unexpected comes up.
Laurel
I am not a confrontational person at all, so having things in writing, to discuss with parents before there are issues, really helps me. I go over policies in detail during the interview process. At registration, I encourage them to read it carefully and ask me for any clarification they need. Not everyone likes my policies. But those that sign, I expect to follow them.
I think the biggest part of the problem is that this family probably did not read my policies. There were some issues with getting paperwork returned and I think they were rushed and just signed. That was a flag I saw but ignored.
The other part of the problem is me. I am reviewing our interviewing and am seeing flags that I missed. Casual comments made that showed they disrespected their previous provider, etc. So my weeding of families needs some readjustment. I have started making notes afterwards and listening to my gut. So I am getting better. My other families (parents) have been, and are, awesome.
Thanks
Blackcat31 07:35 AM 05-23-2015
Id just like to say that you are handling this well!
You are looking at all the details and behaviors (both yours and the DCF's) and trying to figure out what is right and wrong.
Good for you!!
I think your assessment is probaby correct, they hurridly signed and didnt read what they signed.
You saw the signs but didnt account for them.
Lesson learned....
Until you find a suitable replacement, I would probably take a step back and consider writing up a bulleted notice listing policies that are important and NON-NEGOTIABLE such as late fees, sickness and payment. (keep it short/simple)
Go over it face to face with both parents (no need for sit down.. Just talk to each parent when you see them)
I like how Laurel explained the late fee policy... Its not DCD's fault but its not yours either and you worked longer so you need more pay... Easy for DCD to understand.
Stress your consequences and firmly let them know there will be no negotiating.
Then just focus on not letting lateness, sickness or nonpayment happen and let the rest go for the time being as you will hopefully be able to find a replacement while just making due with this family....
Good luck! .. and again, nice job breaking thos all down and dealing with it so nicely!
You are looking at all the details and behaviors (both yours and the DCF's) and trying to figure out what is right and wrong.
Good for you!!
I think your assessment is probaby correct, they hurridly signed and didnt read what they signed.
You saw the signs but didnt account for them.
Lesson learned....
Until you find a suitable replacement, I would probably take a step back and consider writing up a bulleted notice listing policies that are important and NON-NEGOTIABLE such as late fees, sickness and payment. (keep it short/simple)
Go over it face to face with both parents (no need for sit down.. Just talk to each parent when you see them)
I like how Laurel explained the late fee policy... Its not DCD's fault but its not yours either and you worked longer so you need more pay... Easy for DCD to understand.
Stress your consequences and firmly let them know there will be no negotiating.
Then just focus on not letting lateness, sickness or nonpayment happen and let the rest go for the time being as you will hopefully be able to find a replacement while just making due with this family....
Good luck! .. and again, nice job breaking thos all down and dealing with it so nicely!
Kabob 07:45 AM 05-23-2015
Honestly, I've learned the hard way to never ever waive late fees for new families. Once I did, they immediately got huffy when I finally enforced my late fee.
For the future, I'd always very specifically talk about the policies that are nonnegotiable to you at the very first interview.
At the present, I'd just point them to the contract/handbook whenever they questioned me on my policy. If they keep doing it, I'd say "you seem unhappy with xyz policies. I understand but I can't negotiate my contract/handbook or else I can't run my business. If you feel this arrangement isn't a good fit for your needs, please make sure you give me your written 2 weeks' notice once you decide on alternative care." I'd condense that into the last sentence if they are being really difficult.
I might send them a brief email with a reminder of the questioned policies, but honestly it might be a waste of time. They know the policies; they just want you to keep cutting them slack.
I'd start advertising for new families and prep for a term on your part or theirs.
For the future, I'd always very specifically talk about the policies that are nonnegotiable to you at the very first interview.
At the present, I'd just point them to the contract/handbook whenever they questioned me on my policy. If they keep doing it, I'd say "you seem unhappy with xyz policies. I understand but I can't negotiate my contract/handbook or else I can't run my business. If you feel this arrangement isn't a good fit for your needs, please make sure you give me your written 2 weeks' notice once you decide on alternative care." I'd condense that into the last sentence if they are being really difficult.
I might send them a brief email with a reminder of the questioned policies, but honestly it might be a waste of time. They know the policies; they just want you to keep cutting them slack.
I'd start advertising for new families and prep for a term on your part or theirs.
Josiegirl 08:00 AM 05-23-2015
Originally Posted by childcaremom:
She was 24 minutes late. I am not upset that she was late for this reason. Things happen beyond our control. But late fees are still due. And this is her 5th time late.
24 minutes is a lot. Plus 5th time? Yeh, once I can see. They made a mistake assessing construction or time it takes or whatever. But 5x they're not considering your time as important.She was 24 minutes late. I am not upset that she was late for this reason. Things happen beyond our control. But late fees are still due. And this is her 5th time late.
spud912 09:36 AM 05-23-2015
I have a similar issue that I've already asked about. ***Sorry if I'm hijacking!*** I just had a question though: for those of you who are a little lenient on late pick-ups for construction, what is the point at which you start charging late fees? There is on again/off again construction on ONE of the routes to my house (there are 2 ways to get here). It is random and somewhat unpredictable, BUT it has accounted for multiple families arriving ~15 minutes late about once or twice a week for about 6 weeks now. My thing is that it is random, but it's always coming from that one direction. They can either change direction for pick-ups until the construction is scheduled to be completely done, or they can leave 10-15 minutes earlier, or they can adjust their pick-up time for $5 additional per week for an extra 30 minutes added to their pick-up time. None of the parents have done that and I believe they think I'm being unfair for charging a late fee. So how much leeway do you give for a few minutes late on a regular basis?
Laurel 09:54 AM 05-23-2015
Originally Posted by childcaremom:
I appreciate this input and have looked at my policies thoroughly. Reviewed what seemed like excess and kept the things that are non-negotiable for me. I have waived late fees 4 times already for this family. It wouldn't be such a big deal if it was the only thing that had gone on with this family, kwim? It is just little things, all the time. They are almost as much work as their children.
I am not a confrontational person at all, so having things in writing, to discuss with parents before there are issues, really helps me. I go over policies in detail during the interview process. At registration, I encourage them to read it carefully and ask me for any clarification they need. Not everyone likes my policies. But those that sign, I expect to follow them.
I think the biggest part of the problem is that this family probably did not read my policies. There were some issues with getting paperwork returned and I think they were rushed and just signed. That was a flag I saw but ignored.
The other part of the problem is me. I am reviewing our interviewing and am seeing flags that I missed. Casual comments made that showed they disrespected their previous provider, etc. So my weeding of families needs some readjustment. I have started making notes afterwards and listening to my gut. So I am getting better. My other families (parents) have been, and are, awesome.
Thanks
You're welcome. I appreciate this input and have looked at my policies thoroughly. Reviewed what seemed like excess and kept the things that are non-negotiable for me. I have waived late fees 4 times already for this family. It wouldn't be such a big deal if it was the only thing that had gone on with this family, kwim? It is just little things, all the time. They are almost as much work as their children.
I am not a confrontational person at all, so having things in writing, to discuss with parents before there are issues, really helps me. I go over policies in detail during the interview process. At registration, I encourage them to read it carefully and ask me for any clarification they need. Not everyone likes my policies. But those that sign, I expect to follow them.
I think the biggest part of the problem is that this family probably did not read my policies. There were some issues with getting paperwork returned and I think they were rushed and just signed. That was a flag I saw but ignored.
The other part of the problem is me. I am reviewing our interviewing and am seeing flags that I missed. Casual comments made that showed they disrespected their previous provider, etc. So my weeding of families needs some readjustment. I have started making notes afterwards and listening to my gut. So I am getting better. My other families (parents) have been, and are, awesome.
Thanks
It sounds like they are overall not a good fit. If they don't read what they sign then I think I would address that IF you want to consider keeping them. Something like "That was addressed in the contract/flier I gave you last week. Did you read it?" Big smile. If they say no then get out a copy and read it to them right then. If they say yes then just say "Well then you understand my policy, right?" What can they say?
Like BC said, it sounds like you are looking at all the angles. Once my husband said to me "Why can't you just accept that some people are jerks?" So true honey.
Laurel
childcaremom 12:32 PM 05-23-2015
Thanks everyone for the advice.
I am going to email a note with a bulleted area of policies that have been gone against/challenged/questioned as a reminder. Talk to them at pick up and drop off to make sure they had a chance to read and review my note.
And then hope I get some phone calls
I am going to email a note with a bulleted area of policies that have been gone against/challenged/questioned as a reminder. Talk to them at pick up and drop off to make sure they had a chance to read and review my note.
And then hope I get some phone calls