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  #1  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:26 PM
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Default Fingerprinting

I'm not real keen on the idea of stopping in at my local UPS store and letting them scan/ink my fingerprints. Really not what I'd call a great idea.

I'm opposed to the whole fingerprinting for background checks thing as a whole -adults and or underage.

Next they'll want a swab of DNA and that's when I'll quit this circus.
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Old 08-15-2018, 02:58 PM
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Our state just changed background checks and fingerprinting till every 5 years.

Since it is going into effect this month and I had mine done last year I won't have mine done for 7 years.

They need to keep it at every two years.

Finger printing is so it goes into the national data base I believe and not just your states.
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kidsncats View Post
I'm not real keen on the idea of stopping in at my local UPS store and letting them scan/ink my fingerprints. Really not what I'd call a great idea.

I'm opposed to the whole fingerprinting for background checks thing as a whole -adults and or underage.

Next they'll want a swab of DNA and that's when I'll quit this circus.
Why? They (the UPS store) are approved to do so.
It's no different than getting passport.

I guess I don't see an issue with fingerprinting at all.
I understood the issue for minor children but since they've changed the rules on that, it's no longer an issue either unless the child provides direct care to daycare children and if that is the case, they too should be fingerprinted.

I think from a provider perspective it seems invasive but from a parent perspective I really see nothing wrong with this safety measure.
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:20 PM
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If it bothers you find out if they do it at your Sherrif's office. That's where I had mine done (CA)
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:23 PM
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It annoys me that, after caring for children for 30 years, I'm now being elevated to a status that's similar to someone who's being arrested for illegal activity.

It's intrusive, and probably pushing the boundaries of what's considered private information. If the UPS store doesn't delete the fingerprint data. If the County's server is hacked. If some business down the road requires my fingerprints to open an account, and now they're out there being sold on the dark web then there goes my identity.

I'm not a criminal. I've no priors. I think it's intrusive and violates my privacy.
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:45 PM
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How can your identity be stolen from a copy of your fingerprints? Everyone’s fingerprint is unique. It’s not like anyone can leave your prints at the scene of a crime themselves. If you aren’t doing or planning on doing any illegal activity I don’t see the harm.
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:59 PM
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How? I'm sure people said the same thing about social security numbers and stolen identities.

I've worked at the same address for 30 years with a new background check done every two years. They can pass me by on this fingerprinting crap.

Let's just say I don't want my fingerprints stored on the same FBI database as the criminals prints are stored.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/0...t-again-part-1


..."This seems part of an ever-growing movement toward cataloguing information on everyone in America—and a movement that won’t end with fingerprints. With the launch of the face recognition component of NGI, employers and agencies will be able to submit a photograph along with prints as part of the standard background check. As we’ve noted before, one of FBI’s stated goals for NGI is to be able to track people as they move from one location to another. Having a robust database of face photos, built out using non-criminal records, will only make that goal even easier to achieve.

This change will impact a broad swath of Americans. It’s not just prospective police officers or childcare workers who have to submit to fingerprint background checks. In Texas, for example, you’ll need to give the government your prints if you want to be an engineer, doctor, realtor, stockbroker, attorney, or even an architect. The California Department of Justice says it submits 1.2 million sets of civil prints to the FBI annually. And, since 1953, all jobs with the federal government have required a fingerprint check—not just for jobs requiring a security clearance, but even for part-time food service workers, student interns, designers, customer service representatives, and maintenance workers..."
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:07 PM
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Ah fear mongering.

I suggest you retire.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:12 PM
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Do you suppose any one out there brought up the case of stolen identities when the cable company, phone company and insurance company all decided to ask for customer's social security numbers.

First of all, they didn't report income for their customers so no, they didn't need them.

My point is our identities are at risk.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Our state just changed background checks and fingerprinting till every 5 years.

Since it is going into effect this month and I had mine done last year I won't have mine done for 7 years.

They need to keep it at every two years.

Finger printing is so it goes into the national data base I believe and not just your states.

Ours is once. But licensing has some kind of a subscription service in that they’ll get notified if you commit a crime any time in the future, unless you don’t renew your license.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:35 PM
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California has been requiring it for decades. But only for adults.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kidsncats View Post
I'm not real keen on the idea of stopping in at my local UPS store and letting them scan/ink my fingerprints. Really not what I'd call a great idea.

I'm opposed to the whole fingerprinting for background checks thing as a whole -adults and or underage.

Next they'll want a swab of DNA and that's when I'll quit this circus.
How do you keep people with violent criminal convictions from doing childcare without a background check?
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kidsncats View Post
It annoys me that, after caring for children for 30 years, I'm now being elevated to a status that's similar to someone who's being arrested for illegal activity.

It's intrusive, and probably pushing the boundaries of what's considered private information. If the UPS store doesn't delete the fingerprint data. If the County's server is hacked. If some business down the road requires my fingerprints to open an account, and now they're out there being sold on the dark web then there goes my identity.

I'm not a criminal. I've no priors. I think it's intrusive and violates my privacy.
You don't understand how the fingerprinting works. Yes you are being placed into "the system" but getting fingerprinting is licensing checking your fingerprints to verify that you are not a criminal, not accusing you that you are one. Then, if you do commit a crime, as soon as your fingerprints are scanned during booking licensing is alerted and if the charge is offensive enough (child endangerment, drugs, violence, sexual etc) then they can act swiftly and suspend the license and conduct their own evaluation of the provider and program as well as decide to wait to see what the verdict comes out to.

The system is put in place to keep kids safe, not to accuse you or treat you as a criminal. What I don't agree with is the states where minors have to be subjected to fingerprinting.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:51 PM
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Do you suppose any one out there brought up the case of stolen identities when the cable company, phone company and insurance company all decided to ask for customer's social security numbers.

First of all, they didn't report income for their customers so no, they didn't need them.

My point is our identities are at risk.
They can ask for it but you don't have to give it. Just like hospitals and medical doctors. They ask for it in case you don't pay your bill so they can sue you or send you to collections but you don't have to give it. I don't.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
You don't understand how the fingerprinting works. Yes you are being placed into "the system" but getting fingerprinting is licensing checking your fingerprints to verify that you are not a criminal, not accusing you that you are one. Then, if you do commit a crime, as soon as your fingerprints are scanned during booking licensing is alerted and if the charge is offensive enough (child endangerment, drugs, violence, sexual etc) then they can act swiftly and suspend the license and conduct their own evaluation of the provider and program as well as decide to wait to see what the verdict comes out to.

The system is put in place to keep kids safe, not to accuse you or treat you as a criminal. What I don't agree with is the states where minors have to be subjected to fingerprinting.
yeah....all of that but especially the bold
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:02 PM
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The California Department of Justice says it submits 1.2 million sets of civil prints to the FBI annually. And, since 1953, all jobs with the federal government have required a fingerprint check—not just for jobs requiring a security clearance, but even for part-time food service workers, student interns, designers, customer service representatives, and maintenance workers..."
If you are not in the military and work on base as a food service worker, office assistant, maintenance etc. then you are a civilian but because you work for the government you have to be fingerprinted to ensure that the food service worker they just hired didn't try to bomb an airport or start a child terrorist camp trained to shoot up schools.

If you are not a police officer but work as a receptionist or as a 911 operator you are a civilian, not a law enforcement officer, but you have to be fingerprinted to make sure you're not a criminal.

My husband is an IT supervisor for the District Attorney's office ... he's not a judge or investigator but he gets fingerprinted because he's a civilian and you know, you want to make sure that the person who has access to everybody's email, passwords, computer systems, evidence logs, digital evidence, video evidence, etc) doesn't have connections to someone like, let's say ... the mafia.
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Old 08-16-2018, 05:14 AM
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I am all for it.

Keeps out those who have a criminal history from working with vulnerable populations.

It also protects me in the event I am involved in a mass casualty incident, I am unresponsive/deceased and my identification is unknown. My family won't be left in limbo.

It is 17 and up, here.
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Old 08-16-2018, 05:19 AM
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I'm not a fan of my personally identifiable information being in any database. No thanks.

I understand I have the CHOICE of not conforming to being fingerprinted. As I have the choice not to submit my social security number to an entity requesting it.

I also understand that if I fail to comply I will not be licensed or obtain the service that is requesting the fingerprints or social security number. At least, that's how it is here and in the land of America, the home of the FREE I don't like my choice being taken away from me.
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Old 08-16-2018, 06:02 AM
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I'm not a fan of my personally identifiable information being in any database. No thanks.

I understand I have the CHOICE of not conforming to being fingerprinted. As I have the choice not to submit my social security number to an entity requesting it.

I also understand that if I fail to comply I will not be licensed or obtain the service that is requesting the fingerprints or social security number. At least, that's how it is here and in the land of America, the home of the FREE I don't like my choice being taken away from me.
Your choice isn't being taken from you.

You just don't like the options but the choice is still there.

I just don't see this as an issue.

Just because something has been done one way but is now changing, doesn't mean it should've stayed the way it was.

We learn and grow and we've learned that fingerprinting child care providers may not eliminate ALL risk but clearly provides some measure of safety on many levels.

But no matter what our state requires or doesn't require, you still have a choice.
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:45 AM
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The latest fingerprint scanning (not just ink prints) is actually awesome. It became law here in Utah a year or so ago. With fingerprints in the data base, children are safer and that's what is most important.
Licensing told us that fingerprints in the new database are run DAILY. That way, if a person commits a crime against children, it is picked up immediately and licensing can act on that.
The old way meant that prints were checked each year at licensing time. But if a provider had done something wrong the day after getting their previous license approved....there was a possibility that licensing wouldn't find out for another year until they did a check again.

I honestly think fingerprinting is wonderful. I had my own children fingerprinted when they were toddlers and I still have a copy on hand. It gave me piece of mind, that if ever my children went missing...I had a copy of their prints on hand to help with any investigation.

I love my privacy...but honestly other things bug me more than having my fingerprints done. I take greater offense to having to be watched by my licenser while I change a diaper...to make sure I'm doing right. I've done daycare for 33 years. I have 4 adult children of my own. I think I've got diapering down!!!
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:11 AM
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I'm an immigrant, and my fingerprints have been taken more times than I'd be willing to admit. one more, one less, makes no difference.
I don't really get the "expiration" thing, though. they don't change (unless I die), and no one deletes anything. people's FP's from 15-20 years ago have been found in the system.
otherwise, fine, they can have a scrapbook with my FP's if they want.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:13 AM
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I do have to say I wasn't a fan as it took forever to get ours done (hubby and mines) because the scanner couldn't read them.

The guy said over time fingerprints do wear down on our fingers so the scanner type makes it harder to read.

A few people I know have their own children who are special needs and still living at home. There was issues with the scanner trying to read theirs also and one of the special needs persons was not wanting to get theirs done so I'm not sure what they are going to do in cases like this or where it won't read yours.

As far as I know the state wants ours only scanned but have a feeling they may have to change it
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:41 AM
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I don't really get the "expiration" thing, though. they don't change (unless I die), and no one deletes anything.
Scars, burns, crush injuries, amputations.

Some are address, height/weight and contact updates as well.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidsncats;682238[B
]I'm not a fan of my personally identifiable information being in any database. No thanks. [/b]

I understand I have the CHOICE of not conforming to being fingerprinted. As I have the choice not to submit my social security number to an entity requesting it.

I also understand that if I fail to comply I will not be licensed or obtain the service that is requesting the fingerprints or social security number. At least, that's how it is here and in the land of America, the home of the FREE I don't like my choice being taken away from me.
I completely get it. I felt the same, but now, I'm pretty sure that train left the station a long time ago. Kind of like when people won't buy things online, because they are worried about identity theft. Well, everytime mbe you scan your card at a store, it's going in a database too. I expect my identity to be stolen now and insure myself against it. Bottom line though, if you work with kids, they are gonna fingerprint you. While I may not agree that it prevents a lot of people who should not be around kids from working with kids, it's a measure that will never go away, so not much you can do!
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:17 AM
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I completely get it. I felt the same, but now, I'm pretty sure that train left the station a long time ago. Kind of like when people won't buy things online, because they are worried about identity theft. Well, everytime mbe you scan your card at a store, it's going in a database too. I expect my identity to be stolen now and insure myself against it. Bottom line though, if you work with kids, they are gonna fingerprint you. While I may not agree that it prevents a lot of people who should not be around kids from working with kids, it's a measure that will never go away, so not much you can do!
Cash or cash cards. No need to use a credit or debit card if you're worried.
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:43 AM
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Cash or cash cards. No need to use a credit or debit card if you're worried.
Cash is usually my go to, but in order to cash a paycheck or deposit anything, you gotta give up info. Actually, many companies are very vulnerable to hacking, so employee I fo in a database can also be compromised. Imo, there are very few ways to getting around it, other than going 100% off the grid, which is pretty rare.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:50 AM
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Your choice isn't being taken from you.

You just don't like the options but the choice is still there.

I just don't see this as an issue.

Just because something has been done one way but is now changing, doesn't mean it should've stayed the way it was.

We learn and grow and we've learned that fingerprinting child care providers may not eliminate ALL risk but clearly provides some measure of safety on many levels.

But no matter what our state requires or doesn't require, you still have a choice.
Do it or not is a choice. Do it or quit is no choice.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:53 AM
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I completely get it. I felt the same, but now, I'm pretty sure that train left the station a long time ago. Kind of like when people won't buy things online, because they are worried about identity theft. Well, everytime mbe you scan your card at a store, it's going in a database too. I expect my identity to be stolen now and insure myself against it. Bottom line though, if you work with kids, they are gonna fingerprint you. While I may not agree that it prevents a lot of people who should not be around kids from working with kids, it's a measure that will never go away, so not much you can do!
I really do have to consider quitting. My husband doesn't want to be in a fingerprint database either.

This is a serious decision I'm weighing.

Just because it's become the norm doesn't make me want to fall into line and have it done. I'll be contacting my legislature regarding this big brother move.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:56 AM
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Ours is once. But licensing has some kind of a subscription service in that they’ll get notified if you commit a crime any time in the future, unless you don’t renew your license.
Even if you don't renew your license the FBI retains your fingerprints.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:10 PM
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Even if you don't renew your license the FBI retains your fingerprints.
There are many other jobs that require fingerprinting also; mine have been in the database since 1985 lol... I worked as a contractor for NIH, plus I was a private process server for child support court. Can't fight what has already happened; Do you have a passport? If so the FBI has a whole file on you already- fingerprints are the least you should be worried about
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:29 PM
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We have several banks in our area that go by your fingerprints for your accounts.

Many buildings are now requiring finger print ID for employees/clients to get in. My friend worked at a childcare like this and even the parents had to do the fingerprint portion so they could come into the building.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:40 PM
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I really do have to consider quitting. My husband doesn't want to be in a fingerprint database either.

This is a serious decision I'm weighing.

Just because it's become the norm doesn't make me want to fall into line and have it done. I'll be contacting my legislature regarding this big brother move.
Trust me, I get it. I avoided licensing (I operate legally in my state) because I dont want people in my business. I'm not comfortable with giving socials or fingerprints, or retina scans, ect. I just feel like the ship has sailed and the choice now is to participate or not. You are not alone in your concern just fyi. I wish you the best in your decision.
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:59 PM
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Do it or not is a choice. Do it or quit is no choice.
Now I am confused...

Do it OR quit seems like a choice to me.

Just like anything else in life. Driver's license, marriage license, child care license, pesticide applicator's license, law license, medical license, teacher's license......

You CHOOSE to follow rules, regulations and requirements in almost everything you CHOOSE to do.

I CHOOSE to follow the food program guidelines for the benefits but there are consequences if I don't comply.

I don't really like to or want to pay taxes but I CHOOSE to comply so I don't suffer the consequences.

I drive to work every day. I don't really agree with the posted speed limit but I CHOOSE to obey it so I don't suffer a consequence.

CHOICE (noun)
noun: choice; plural noun: choices
~ an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities.
"the choice between good and evil"
synonyms: option, alternative, possible course of action
"you have no other choice"


You don't have to like either option but it doesn't change the fact that you DO have a choice.

I agree... if you are not happy with MN now requiring providers to be finger printed then definitely write your legislators. Providers were vocal about fingerprinting minor children so contacting legislators helped change that so I definitely think that is your best option.
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:20 PM
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Now I am confused...

Do it OR quit seems like a choice to me.

Just like anything else in life. Driver's license, marriage license, child care license, pesticide applicator's license, law license, medical license, teacher's license......

You CHOOSE to follow rules, regulations and requirements in almost everything you CHOOSE to do.

I CHOOSE to follow the food program guidelines for the benefits but there are consequences if I don't comply.

I don't really like to or want to pay taxes but I CHOOSE to comply so I don't suffer the consequences.

I drive to work every day. I don't really agree with the posted speed limit but I CHOOSE to obey it so I don't suffer a consequence.

CHOICE (noun)
noun: choice; plural noun: choices
~ an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities.
"the choice between good and evil"
synonyms: option, alternative, possible course of action
"you have no other choice"


You don't have to like either option but it doesn't change the fact that you DO have a choice.

I agree... if you are not happy with MN now requiring providers to be finger printed then definitely write your legislators. Providers were vocal about fingerprinting minor children so contacting legislators helped change that so I definitely think that is your best option.
I agree, but I also disagree. Choice is probably not the word I would use. We have options. Pay your taxes or face fines and imprisonment. Comply with licensing or close your business. Making the choice to comply can also be seen as submission to a higher power. In my opinion, it's not as black and white as comply or face the consequence. Maybe in the minds of those who are the "higher power", but in the minds of us normal people, it can be a more difficult decision. The irony is that if you choose not to comply, and cant open your business, your lack of income may make you eligible for government benefits. Not sure how it is in other states, but you dont give your fingerprints to collect welfare here. So they went give you a license to operate daycare, but they will give you funds to live and care for your own. I know I am the oddball here, but I find fingerprinting non criminals to have the same effect the TSA has when they make you and grandma take your shoes off. Makes you feel good and safe. The illusion of safety is very powerful. Governments use it daily.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:01 PM
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I agree, but I also disagree. Choice is probably not the word I would use. We have options. Pay your taxes or face fines and imprisonment. Comply with licensing or close your business. Making the choice to comply can also be seen as submission to a higher power. In my opinion, it's not as black and white as comply or face the consequence. Maybe in the minds of those who are the "higher power", but in the minds of us normal people, it can be a more difficult decision. The irony is that if you choose not to comply, and cant open your business, your lack of income may make you eligible for government benefits. Not sure how it is in other states, but you dont give your fingerprints to collect welfare here. So they went give you a license to operate daycare, but they will give you funds to live and care for your own. I know I am the oddball here, but I find fingerprinting non criminals to have the same effect the TSA has when they make you and grandma take your shoes off. Makes you feel good and safe. The illusion of safety is very powerful. Governments use it daily.
Not necessarily the odd ball....

I just view things very black and white and I see this issue no different than provider's having issue with having to be licensed at all.

Some states allow you to care for X number of kids before needing a license, some states say even one child and you need a license. But my state requires providers to be licensed to care for more than one unrelated child.

I don't have to like it or agree with it but IF I CHOOSE to be a child care provider I must comply. period. (or face consequences)

I don't get too caught up in details, options or loop holes.
I simply see it as a choice. Do X if I want to be a child care provider in the state of MN or don't and work in a different line of work.

The requirement isn't about what I personally think or don't think. It's just the requirement. MN has been discussing this for years...... before implementing it and I think if a person that wants to be a child care provider in this state feels strongly enough about complying the time to do something about it was BEFORE it was a requirement.

As you said, that ship has sailed.

Now it IS a comply or don't comply.
That is the choice.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:14 PM
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Not necessarily the odd ball....

I just view things very black and white and I see this issue no different than provider's having issue with having to be licensed at all.

Some states allow you to care for X number of kids before needing a license, some states say even one child and you need a license. But my state requires providers to be licensed to care for more than one unrelated child.

I don't have to like it or agree with it but IF I CHOOSE to be a child care provider I must comply. period. (or face consequences)

I don't get too caught up in details, options or loop holes.
I simply see it as a choice. Do X if I want to be a child care provider in the state of MN or don't and work in a different line of work.

The requirement isn't about what I personally think or don't think. It's just the requirement. MN has been discussing this for years...... before implementing it and I think if a person that wants to be a child care provider in this state feels strongly enough about complying the time to do something about it was BEFORE it was a requirement.

As you said, that ship has sailed.

Now it IS a comply or don't comply.
That is the choice.
Very true...thank you for the perspective! And I agree. I think choice seems more like an ultimatum anymore, so it can be tough to get totally on board. In regards to childcare, the "choice" to comply kr not is driving a lot of people out of the industry. I get why, but I dont think governments really understand the impact. Or the irony. Parents seem to be a protected class even though they are shown to be the most harmful to the kids, yet DC providers jump through hoops and give up most of their privacy to provide care. I cant say if it's right or wrong, as I'm sure every situation is different, but shoot. Seems like a downhill slope to me.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:57 PM
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Very true...thank you for the perspective! And I agree. I think choice seems more like an ultimatum anymore, so it can be tough to get totally on board. In regards to childcare, the "choice" to comply kr not is driving a lot of people out of the industry. I get why, but I dont think governments really understand the impact. Or the irony. Parents seem to be a protected class even though they are shown to be the most harmful to the kids, yet DC providers jump through hoops and give up most of their privacy to provide care. I cant say if it's right or wrong, as I'm sure every situation is different, but shoot. Seems like a downhill slope to me.
Not every parent gets protected; my own step mother turned me into DHS for educational neglect after my dad died; she didn't believe in homeschooling (which my children thrived in) - she didn't realize the consequences it caused me in AR... not only could I lose my career (I was found innocent BTW and told no worries for doing daycare), but I did lose my rental home due to the laws there. People don't always think about what their actions could do
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Old 08-17-2018, 03:51 AM
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Do they require fingerprinting for coaches, custodians, priests, bus drivers, etc.? I feel it's important to keep littles without voices, protected, by all means. But don't single some possible criminal accesses without including the requirement of everyone. Same requirements across the board, and yes, while I think underage might be overstepping a bit how many school shootings are happening because the underage are gaining access to weapons? A 14 yo boy just stabbed a girl at an OK school, 1st day and they were all gathered in an auditorium. But then, how would fingerprinting been able to prevent that?
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Old 08-17-2018, 06:03 AM
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Do they require fingerprinting for coaches, custodians, priests, bus drivers, etc.? I feel it's important to keep littles without voices, protected, by all means. But don't single some possible criminal accesses without including the requirement of everyone. Same requirements across the board, and yes, while I think underage might be overstepping a bit how many school shootings are happening because the underage are gaining access to weapons? A 14 yo boy just stabbed a girl at an OK school, 1st day and they were all gathered in an auditorium. But then, how would fingerprinting been able to prevent that?
MN has removed the requirement of printing of minor children UNLESS they are working in some capacity in the business.

As for coaches, custodians, priests, bus drivers being printed as well.... I agree in some cases.

Priests? That's an area I don't enter (religion) in regards to what the do/don't do. Parents don.t normally leave their child alone with clergy and certainly aren't required to in connection with their jobs or family incomes.

Coaches? Another area the parents can safely monitor themselves or avoid if necessary

Custodians or bus drivers? In my area they are considered school employees and I believe are subject to finger printing AND drug testing.

I think the difference is we work (alone usually) with very young children on a much more intimate level and for much longer portions of day to day life (more opportunity to abuse or neglect etc) that environments with coaching Little League or learning Sunday school lessons isn't even comparable to.

I know bad stuff still happens with coaches and priests etc but they aren't the norm and are a small percentage verses the number of child care providers that maybe shouldn't have even been providers in the first place.
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Old 08-17-2018, 06:31 AM
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MN has removed the requirement of printing of minor children UNLESS they are working in some capacity in the business.
I just had a discussion with my licensor about this.
Minor children who are 13/older will need a background check. If anything flags that background check, they will be required to be fingerprinted.
She could not elaborate on what "flagging" means.
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Old 08-17-2018, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Snowmom View Post
I just had a discussion with my licensor about this.
Minor children who are 13/older will need a background check. If anything flags that background check, they will be required to be fingerprinted.
She could not elaborate on what "flagging" means.
Hmm, I have to go back and read now as I thought it said if they are working as an employee or a volunteer they had to be printed too...

My licensor explained "flagging" as basically getting into any trouble with the law....juvenile criminal history etc is tricky as not everyone has access to all of it so I suppose "flagging" is just an alert that they've done something that required the law to address but doesn't automatically mean it was or is grounds for no contact with daycare.
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Old 08-17-2018, 06:52 AM
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Interesting/useful info from MN DHS site:

Fingerprint and photo retention

Fingerprints are not retained by DHS or the BCA, but will be retained by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in cases where an FBI check is required. Photographs are transmitted through a secure system to DHS and are available in NETStudy 2.0. Fingerprints and photo images are not retained by or available to the fingerprint and photo service location.

Are fingerprints saved or used for other purposes?

The state of Minnesota does not, will not, and cannot retain fingerprints for any DHS study subject. The BCA submits fingerprints to the FBI for review and requests that the FBI not retain them. The FBI states that it does not keep fingerprints if the submitting agency requests this status.
The FBI uses the Next Generation Identification (NGI) system to process background studies submitted by Minnesota.
In its Privacy Impact Statement for the NGI system, the FBI states that fingerprints for non-criminal justice studies are only retained when the submitting agency authorizes them to be retained. Minnesota requests that they not be retained.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmom View Post
I just had a discussion with my licensor about this.
Minor children who are 13/older will need a background check. If anything flags that background check, they will be required to be fingerprinted.
She could not elaborate on what "flagging" means.
For home-based providers: Will this affect minors living in my household?

Yes, all children (ages 13-17) living in the household with a family child care program or a legal nonlicensed program are required to have a background study. Most children (ages 13-17) living in the household will continue to be required to have a background study based on their name and date of birth. Once the enhanced studies for child care programs are available, there are a limited number of circumstances in which a child living in the household would be required to have a fingerprint-based FBI background study. These are when:
  • They supervise children, or
  • They are employed by the child care provider, or
  • They live outside of Minnesota, or
  • They have lived outside of Minnesota at any time in the last five years, or
  • They have a Minnesota criminal record, or
  • There is reasonable cause to believe that they may have a criminal record in another state.

Note: The Department has authority to require an individual (ages 10 and older), who does not provide services but may have unsupervised access to children in care, to obtain a background study when there is reasonable cause.
Reasonable cause means that information exists that indicates the person may have a history that would disqualify the individual from having contact with children in care or that the person may pose a risk to of
health or safety to children in care.

Here is the "Background Study Worksheet" that you can use to see if any household member (including minor children) need to have a background check and/or fingerprinting.

All info came from this DHS page/site
https://mn.gov/dhs/general-public/ba...es/faqs/ccdbg/

Last edited by Blackcat31; 08-17-2018 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 08-17-2018, 06:57 AM
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Do they require fingerprinting for coaches, custodians, priests, bus drivers, etc.?
probably, bus drivers and custodians need to be fingerprinted because they are part of the school system. coaches within school system may depend on whether they are paid or volunteers. I just submitted the volunteer records check form for our public school system (literally, half an hour ago), and no FP was mentioned.
the question of church workers is actually interesting. on the one hand, say, Sunday School teachers are left with children while parents are not in the classroom. on the other hand, they are volunteers. I need to ask our children's minister about that: our state just started fingerprinting in April, so it's still raw and green.
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post
Do they require fingerprinting for coaches, custodians, priests, bus drivers, etc.? I feel it's important to keep littles without voices, protected, by all means. But don't single some possible criminal accesses without including the requirement of everyone. Same requirements across the board, and yes, while I think underage might be overstepping a bit how many school shootings are happening because the underage are gaining access to weapons? A 14 yo boy just stabbed a girl at an OK school, 1st day and they were all gathered in an auditorium. But then, how would fingerprinting been able to prevent that?
School employess are certainly live scanned/background checked. In California anyone that works with children has to be. Scout leaders, coaches, even the Team Mom. Priests/clergy do if they work in schools.

I can't think of one single state that doesn't require school employees, including the bus driver and janitor, to be finger printed.
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Old 08-17-2018, 09:03 AM
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Rather than split hairs over the word "choice" I'll list examples of actual choices:

1. Fingerprint or DNA swab.

2. Fingerprint or bi annual background checks.

3. Fingerprint or Retina Scan.

I would go with option 2.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kidsncats View Post
Rather than split hairs over the word "choice" I'll list examples of actual choices:

1. Fingerprint or DNA swab.

2. Fingerprint or bi annual background checks.

3. Fingerprint or Retina Scan.

I would go with option 2.
But the real current choice is....live scan, or don't work with children other than your own.

It's a valid choice.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:18 PM
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My husband has a birth defect involving his fingers that made it really hard for them to scan. They finally filled out a form that identified the defect. They talked about photographing his hands, but I don't remember if they did or not. He signed it and we left. They said we would hear back if it wasn't accepted, but a few weeks later I got approvals for us both.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:44 PM
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My work gives me scary amounts of power. People drive up, leave their kids with me, and drive away. That warrants an accountability I can't erase by shredding documents or deleting computer files.
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Old 08-17-2018, 03:35 PM
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My relative used bleach for cleaning for several decades and it erased her fingerprints. I'm gonna chuckle if that starts happening to providers.
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Old 08-17-2018, 03:51 PM
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Sorry, I accidently double posted.
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post
Do they require fingerprinting for coaches, custodians, priests, bus drivers, etc.? I feel it's important to keep littles without voices, protected, by all means. But don't single some possible criminal accesses without including the requirement of everyone. Same requirements across the board, and yes, while I think underage might be overstepping a bit how many school shootings are happening because the underage are gaining access to weapons? A 14 yo boy just stabbed a girl at an OK school, 1st day and they were all gathered in an auditorium. But then, how would fingerprinting been able to prevent that?
I don't know about public schools, but I work in a Catholic School, and we are fingerprinted, background checked, take a 2 hour course about keeping kids safe, and have to take a small monthly quiz about keeping kids safe. Even parents who volunteer have to take the course before volunteering in classroom. I'm also active in cub scouts and while I didn't do the fingerprinting, there was a background check and keeping kids safe type training to be an adult leader. Ironically, I had to do the background check twice in a month when I started all this, but I'm good with that. I'd rather they take the precautions.
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