Hi, I am unregistered, I just found this site and thought I would ask some questions.

I have been doing daycare for over 25 years now am finding things are so much different then the "old" Days when I started doing daycare. Do any of you that do home daycare as I do, have kids that are only with you for maybe 2 yrs at the most and then their parents send them to preschool or more of a preschool type daycare?

I do teach the kids, but am more of a home away from home daycare(I only take 2 children at a time),I want the kids to have an one on one attention and get good care. I take only kids that are 1 yr and up age. I think I give quality care,give them lots of attention, love and nurturing. But I am finding that parents seem to want that "Social skill" for their child now at such young ages. What has happened to let kids be kids, use their imagination and just play, learn along the way too, but just be able to be a kid? Why do parents have to have the "smartest child" and know everything at age 2 or 3 now days.
I know, this is a different world now, but for heaven's sake,let a child be a child for a few years, they will be in school soon enough!
I guess you can tell that I am a older woman, in my mid 50's, but still love doing daycare. I have 2 grown son's and am a Grandma.
Just was wondering if I am the only one that seems to think that parents want their child to be so smart and it seems like that is their first concern over their child getting good care.
I am losing one of my 2 yr olds,they love how I have cared for their child and what I have done, and told me they have appreciated the good care that I have done and have been happy with me, but now want him to get that "social skill" with a larger daycare. So just wondering if anyone else has been experiencing this.
So sorry this is so long.

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I am barely 30 and I completely agree with you. All this garbage surrounding early education and whatnot is completely ridiculous. Kindergarten teachers don't want a child that can already write their own name, they want a child who has been taught how to listen, sit still, share and be a friend. I find that most of the kids I know who had an early start to their education with preschools and the like are no "smarter" or well-off than a child who has been home with parents or in a home-away-from-home childcare setting - as a matter of fact, I find they are usually more behind socially somehow!!

I am against preschool - kids will face enough schooling in their older years and you're right - they need time to be a kid. Plus, it's been proven time and again that young children learn best through play!

I don't keep kids who go to preschool part time!

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I have been in business a long time also (21 years) and I have noticed the same thing. I used to have kids until they were 4 and they would go to preschool for one year before kindergarten or I would have them until they started kindy. Now I lose them at 3yo, but the local preschool are starting to take 2yos. I feel the "preschools" are misleading though. They are daycare with a small portion of the day being "preschool." Well, that is what I do here.

I have to pat myself on the back though. I had 2 of my kiddos go to a kiddie college here with a lady who has also been in business a long time. She told me my two were the best behaved, well mannered and knew everything they should know.

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I'm not so sure its the parents but the world. It just appalls me when I see toddlers with these electronic gadgets and such. I always think why not give them a book/soft toy/even your keys. My kids always loved my keys!

We are under such pressure to keep up with other countries and frankly I've done well my whole life without keeping up with anyone else. Kindergarten teachers are under enormous pressures now compared to even 10 years ago. They now have to make sure the kids can read, write well, now all these facts and such. They did these before but not to the extreme measures as now. I know the three kindergarten teachers very well and they are all extremely grateful for the kids that not only come in with manners now but also know their letters, numbers, shapes, colors, how to write and maybe some basic reading.

Yes, its sad but I know even in the 60's there were "nursery schools" which I think is just another word for preschool. Not to the extent of now but they were there. I remember on tv an old show called "Romper Room" which I think was like a preschool but on tv.

So yes, you are going to probably see a higher turnover now in your childcare. Just love them for the few years you have them and then know you did your best when they leave.

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I'm 30, and had my first child at 26. I wanted her to be the smartest kid around, so I did the flash cards, baby einstein, books, etc etc. At the time I was working outside of the home full time, and my grandparents were the ones to raise her. They did not focus on school skills, but let her play and explore her environment. She learned a bazillion things, and in return, I learned a lot about parenting from my grandparents. She is 4 now, and in preschool. She can do all of the school stuff, but she also got the free play experience from my grandparents, for which I am forever thankful.


I have a dcb who I got at age 3, who was raised by a 70 year old woman, and he is also one of the most polite, well mannered children I have. So, from first hand experience, it appears that the old school method of letting them play and having them follow rules and having manners produces very polite, creative children. I still think it is important to have a little bit of school basics during the day, but the majority of the day should be spent playing and learning through firsthand experiences.

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I have been in business for 12 years. The first two years I only provided daycare and no preschool. The 10 years following I have provided preschool because in my area that was the norm. Most of the home daycares around me all provided it so I started to as well to stay in business and grow my business. I have found most parents to be "older" parents like super late 30's and 40's to be my clients. They ALL want and expect a full preschool program. They want what a daycare center offers: long hours, preschool, continuous care all for the price of homedaycare. Most of my daycare kids start super young infant age or barely above 1 year. They have all managed to stay in my care till they graduate and go off to kindergarten. I guess I am doing something right! Last year I picked up a new family a 3 year old little girl and her infant sister. The 3 year old came from a highly regarded "center." What I found the parents liked saying their child went to "school" and that was what they primarily wanted but since baby came along couldn't afford the center for both. The little girl when she started didn't know how to hold a pencil, only scribbled when she colored, and had a super hard time sitting still and listening when I was working with her. I thought wow, the "center" didn't teach much. Since then I have taught her a lot! She can write her name, recognize lots of letters and numbers, etc. Her parents are happy but I still feel that when they can they will put her back in a "center" and keep baby with me.

Just my two cents worth girls!

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Thank you all so far for your kind words!!!!You make me feel so much better knowing I am not the only one going thru this with daycare parents today. I was beginning to feel that I was the only one and feel so bad that child care has gotten away from what really matters while parents are at work.....the CARE, LOVE and ATTENTION for their child! If I were a young parent today and had to have daycare for my child, what I would look for first and foremost is the quality of care my child would get. If their diaper's were changed when dirty,if they had good meals,a clean home, not dirty with bugs,talked to nicely,helped when they needed help with doing something,had attention and was shown tons of TLC and that they were happy while away from Mom & Dad.
Having a preschool type daycare really is not what I would look for if they were not being taken care of good first. That would all come second. The safety and good care is the most important thing I am most proud of giving the children and that should matter to parents. You can be a preschool type daycare, teach the kids and have lots of kids, but give very little of what matters most.....

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Unfortunately having a child care that simply provides the basics is becoming harder and harder to have. First parents want the FULL preschool curriulum (and at earlier and earlier ages) and now the states are stepping in and requiring child care providers to be educated as well as have a written plan for curriculum at not only the preschool age but at the toddler and infant ages as well.

Family child care as it once was will no longer exist IMHO, in the next 10-15 years. Private family based child care providers will be run out of business and especially those providers who are only doing child care to bring in extra income while their own little ones are young will no longer have that option.

Providers who are in this business for the long haul will now have to meet requirements similar to what public school teachers have to do. They will have ALOT more federal and state guidelines to meet and follow making the basic play based family child care unwanted and unneeded.

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We will be having our first "rating/stars" meeting this week. I'm going to everything I can on this because this is about my future with my career. I need to know exactly what I'm up against and if I should move into another career choice but I'm not sure what that would be where I can make a descent living.

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I think social skills are very important to learn whether or not the child gets a scholastic curriculum or more of a developmental one. No matter what you choose to do or what you choose to provide in your daycare the DC kids and yourself benefit when the kids are good at social skills. Social skills are things like solving problems appropriately without becoming angry or frustrated, without shouting or without becoming physical. It's also learning empathy, taking turns and patience which all important whether a child gets a pre-school program or not.

I think that parents feel pressured to want "the best" for their children and they forget that young children learn through play. When I interview for openings I take the time to explain that I do not offer a pre-school curriculum and that I use a developmental approach through open ended play. I explain what a child learns through playing with blocks, threading a large bead, climbing the playground, pushing themselves in a ride-along toy etc. I even have a print out that I put together about all of the things that the children learn while they are here. I think it's a nice reminder to them that pre-school curriculum is not absolutely needed before the age of 4 (and sometimes not needed at all) and a child doesn't have a better chance at advancing educationaly simply because they are offered a pre-school curriculum before the age of 4. There are even studies now that suggest that children may actually be stunted if taught with a scholastic approach too early, that the child loses the luster of learning and gets burnt out if formal education is started to early and that these children actually don't do well in school later as they get older.

I know and have observed many providers that use a pre-school curriculum even for the children under the age of 4 but instead of using lots of out-of-the-box crafts and worksheets they use a lot of open-ended art and activities which is great. The parent still feels like the child is getting a formal education from taking home some crafts and pages and the child benefits from all of the open-ended and child-led activities. This is a good mix of the two.

I think that a gentle reminder to parents that even pre-school and kinder teachers are more interested in school-readiness in the form of waiting your turn, gentle touches, being kind to others, following directions, listening etc vs a child that doesn't have those skills but can identify numbers, shapes, alphabet etc. I mean really, what is your child going to do in pre-school if they have already mastered these skills but they can't behave? What's the point of sending them kwim? I think that everything has it's time and if it was so fundamental to start formal learning at an earlier age then the school age would start earlier instead of at pre-school or kinder age. JMO.

I think people just need to slow down and allow the kids to learn naturally through cause and effect, trial and error and by excercising their imagination and natural curiosity to learn.

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I actually find many parents of kids under 2....even under 1....want details on the "curriculum" you offer. I dont know what they think we are able to do with an 8 month old that still takes two naps a day, plus diaper changing, tummy time and meals.....when exactly are you supposed to "teach" them? LOL what is gained besides bragging rights if your 18 month old can sing her ABCs perfectly? who cares? my 18 month old can sit still at a restaurant for the full meal....I would rather her learn that

anyway, my play based, old school methods seem to be working pretty well. My daughters kinder teacher sent home a school readiness list that was almost exclusively social skills and self help skills. We worked on all of that over the summer and now that she has mastered those things, she is ready to learn and probably two grades ahead in some subjects.

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I can totally relate to this! I have been in this business for 26 years and it has changed a lot. I have lost many children once they turn 2, because the parents believe they need a "large" daycare facility in order to thrive.

I have a small family daycare home and am licensed for 8. I have always incorporated baking/cooking,(last week we made individual pizzas & baked cookies- the children took turns measuring, mixing etc) crafts and preschool type activities. My low ratio has allowed me to do more one on one with the younger children. I usually only have 2 or 3 preschoolers and love allowing them to explore through play and fun learning activities.

It doesn't seem to matter how much I do with these little ones and it's frustrating at times. I have even seen some of the exact same projects that I do, done by a child at neighborhood "preschool". I sometimes feel like because it is "home based", parents think it isn't a real learning environment!

However, my experience has shown that the children who have stayed with me until they start kindergarten have always been at the top of their classes academically and have wonderful social skills and classroom behavior. Interestingly enough, this has not been the case for several of the children that left here and were placed in a larger preschool environment.

Recently I lost a 2 yo to a Spanish immersion program. This little girl barely is speaking English and now she attends this preschool program every morning five days a week. She continues to attend my daycare in the afternoon. She cries every morning when being dropped off...something she never did when she arrived here. The parents told me they felt she needed to be "challenged" more so she would be prepared for the competition she'd need for College. I thought, "but she is ONLY 2!!!" What is this world coming too?!?!?! Here she had been interacting with several 4 yo dcks and was learning an abundance from them too, so IMHO she "was" being challenged everyday!!!!

It was nice to see that I'm not alone in what I have been witnessing over the past few years...it has definitely been difficult for me at times.

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Let me preface this by saying I'm a parent, not a provider...and a 29yo at that. I currently have my daughter in a home-away-from-home type of care with a SAHM who has two sons and cares for just my daughter (part-time) and an infant (also part-time).

To me, social skills are very different from scholastic skills. Social skills are learning to interact positively with those around you. Taking turns, treating friends kindly, listening to adults, using good manners and being part of a group. I think one of the reasons more parents are seeking this skill set from daycare/preschool is because it's less prevalent in day-to-day life. Maybe I'm relying too much on "What a Jolly Street" and "Leave It to Beaver" for my impressions but it seems like in the past families were bigger (more children) and children were more likely to spend a lot of time with extended family and playing with children in the neighborhood. Now, aside from organized activities, like dance classes or soccer teams or Mommy & Me groups, some children don't have much other interaction with other kids. Also, with smaller families, the children are getting more adult attention as well so parents are concerned about culture shock when they suddenly become one of twenty-five when they enter kindy. While I feel my daughter will academically be ready for kindy, culture shock is why we are considering putting her in preschool when she turns 4 - if my provider is willing I'd love for her to just go to the 3 hr/day preschool and stay with my provider before and after but issues with combined costs and transportation may not allow that.

As far as scholastic skills, I think those are beginning to swing around again. Concepts like the Montessori and Waldorf methods, which focus on self-directed discovery, learning through play and giving children natural, open ended playthings for toys are gaining popularity with parents. At this point though, those ways of learning are only employed in charter or private schools so parents feel they need to prepare their children for the traditional 'sit in a desk and do worksheets' style of learning.

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I honestly think that a lot of the pressure that parents feel about getting their child 'ready' for kindergarten comes from not understanding two things:

1. What kindergarten teachers expect incoming children to do

2. How children learn these things expected of them

When in group child care (large or small), children are going to learn social skills like taking turns, sharing, working together, problem solving, etc. They really just need to be exposed to other children and have an adult nearby that can help them through problems when needed.

The 'academic' skills happen in many daycares as well, but, we have to be informed on what the kinder readiness standards are in our state, so that we can inform the parents on how we prepare them for kindergarten. Many family daycares do activities that promote this type of learning, but if we don't lay it out for the parents, the parents won't know.

It has become necessary for daycare providers to educate the parents on these things as well. Parents think that some magic needs to happen in order for their children to be ready for kindergarten.

I run a morning preschool out of my home and it's a small group (5-6), the children are getting plenty of social interactions and learn EVERYTHING through play. I never use worksheets or make them sit at desks or anything else like that and they are more than ready for when the time comes. I find that a lot of my job is keeping the parents up to date on what we're doing here, so that they don't have to worry whether their children will be ready for kindy when the time comes.

There was a previous poster that mentioned kindy teachers don't want the kids to know how to write their name, but that is just simply not true anymore (at least in two states that I've recently worked in). It's very clear in the Ohio kindy readiness standards that kids should come in writing their first and last name, recognizing upper and lower case letters and writing many of those letters. Every state is different on the standards, but if daycare providers keep up to date on what is expected than they can give their parents info about how they are trying to meet those standards.

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We had a thread like this before.
I love this thread, I think on the other one, someone had a link about what kindergarden teachers expect kids to know by the time they go into kindergarden. I would love to print this out if someone can post it again.

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My daughter just started 4 year old preschool this year (she's a young 4) she has only been in my care (in my daycare home) in her life. When she started preschool she was already able to write her name, new her shapes (even the odd ones), recognized all but one letter, could write most of her letters, her colors and could count past 20. I never did any sit down at the desk type of learning with her. I provide a great environment and plenty of supplies for learning and I talk ( a lot) and the kids learn. She is already reading sight words and her teacher said she has no doubt that she will be reading by kindergarten. She has 2 older siblings and they were both the same way at 4 and reading before kindy.
She comes home every day and tells me about what they learned and so far it's always something she already knows. Most of what they do at pre-school is play and learn the same way they do in a good daycare (center or home). The main difference is they are all the same age. She has students in her class that used to attend my daycare and they are all in the same boat as her and doing above and beyond. The teacher also says they have good manners and love to help. I am keeping her there only because she is around other children her age.
I have all just turned 2 year olds now and after feeling a lot of pressure from parents I started Mother Goose Time this year. It's a great curriculum but it wasn't for me....too much to do and to little time to play! It lasted 2 months...they learned no more than they would have learned in my old program based on play and exploration.
Last week the kids made little foam turkeys with glue on feathers, eyes, beaks etc. and took them home. The parents were so delighted and loved them so much more than the finger painting pictures, free art with stamps, colors etc. that I normally send home. I guess they weren't here to see how horrible putting the turkeys together went. The littles sat at the table with the supplies in front of them and had no idea what to do no matter how many times I showed an example or gave instruction. In truth, I actually did 98% of each turkey and purposefully did not put things where they were supposed to go. Yes I did! Please don't judge me to harshly. If I would have sent home what the children did independently it would have been chewed on pieces of foam and feathers in a baggie and I have a feeling the parents would not have been so delighted! I told my husband I should just pre-make a few junky crafts every month to send home to keep the parents happy but to save the littles and myself the trouble of trying to do something they aren't ready for. I jokingly said it, kind of...you know what they say, when someone tells a joke it's usually part truth!
Anyway I guess my point is that the parents don't get how their children learn and they don't even question how their child who can't even put on his own shoes and puts everything in his mouth can glue foam turkey pieces together (even if the eye is on the back and the feather is on the leg). They also seem to think their child learned something from this daunting task that they don't get from free play art. I have started a packet on what we do and why we do it and included why we don't do worksheets and specific crafts until they are ready. I'm going to use it in my interview process to weed out the parents that just don't get it. It's going to be like a psychological test to determine mental disorder but it will determine a different type of crazy called LOOKWHATMYKIDDID!

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My daughter's preschool sent home a copy of the Ohio standards. It is quite a bit! She is able to do most everything on the list, but I know several of her peers that would have a great deal of difficulty meeting all of their standards.

I am not 100% convinced that formal education is always the best way to go. Everyone's brain works differently. I actually really like the Sudbury approach.

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i would like to piggyback on this comment.. i was hesitant to comment before.. maybe it is different per state.. but by the end of the school year, my dd in pre K 3 at her charter school had spelling words, wrote her first and last name, and was doing addition.. she had homework every night..
When I decided to open a daycare..there was no question that i would have curriculum due to what I had been used to with her schooling (she is 10 now)
BUT its soooo hard to do that in family care for me.. the one 3 year old that I have, he is in my care ONLY because the mother wanted a curriculum.. (AND the dcd didnt want to pay the extra bucks for regular preschool so i dont feel so bad lol) He was my first client so at first it was super easy, he was by himself!.. BUT now with other children, most of them way younger or developmentally slower than him its VERY hard to keep up with my curriculum goals.. now its self made curriculum and I've slowed things down a bit but i feel bad.. because as all of you have said.. the parents expect a certain standard. I think in the future , I will inform parents that I am focused on my kids learning new things everyday but if they are looking for a strict curriculum, MY family daycare may not be what they are looking for. This is why i STILL only have ONE 3 year old after 5 months..alot of kids by that age in my area are in regular school already or a preschool program.

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Ugh, yes, Ohio standards are crazy and very specific in some areas, but lacking in the social emotional aspect of development.

And, I completely agree with you about formal education. If I had married a different man I could totally see myself homeschooling my 5 children, as I think that is quite an education! Instead I'll send my one DD to public school. Oh well, she'll be fine.

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I've had the same problem here, parents want a pre-school education for in-home daycare price! I try to keep my prices low because of the economy, but it's getting hard, materials cost, food cost, gas & electric costs have all gone up so it makes it hard to do something everyday of the week.

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Years ago I had kids stay with me until kindergarten. Funny thing tho I went out two afternoons and taught preschool at a half day private preschool ( our public school didn't have pre-k yet) because I needed to get out and I love teaching! I did and still do offer a full preschool program. All very fun and play based and dev. appropriate. I teach with flannel board stories, music, puppet and prop stories, reading to kids, etc.

. Now the public school is offering full day pre-k free. I still have 3's stay with me but I dread the school system offering 3-k.

It's a changing world and I feel home based child care is being squeezed out. I've owned a larger group center at one time also and will stand by quality family child care till my dying day! It's so great for kids!

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Thing is schools in my area push pre-k kindergarten readiness that's very academic. I know a kindergarten teacher who is teaching blend sounds already in November for those kids that are ready for that-not just individual sounds but blends!. That seems so advanced for k age kids and a lot of pressure. Mind you this is not for the whole class but only kids that are ready. Think how pushed they were in pre-k to be that far already this time of the year.

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Thank you for sharing! Now I don't feel so bad. I don't like doing "final product" crafts with my daughter. I'd much rather sit her at the table with supplies and let her go to town with just occasional help from me or we'll color together (basically sitting down together, each working on our own page, though sometimes she'll "help" me with mine ). While the holiday crafts she occasionally does with my mom or her provider are cute, I don't feel too attached to them because, like you described, I imagine the adults are doing most of them. I like the weird blob that's a dinosaur and the pink scribble that's mommy sort of drawings better.

Last Mother's Day my husband took my daughter to the store and they came back with two craft kits (a stepping stone and I think a mug) and gave them to me still in the box. They're still in the box.

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The teachers definitely do most of the work for those "final product" crafts. It is so much better from a child development standpoint to allow children the freedom to be creative. I used to to those types of projects bc i thought that would appease the parents, but after researching further, i started to jut give the kids a bunch of crafts at their disposal and allow them to make whatever they wanted.

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I think even with that packet ... many just won't care.
I feel this pressure from all of my parents and so we DO the worksheets once/twice a week, the "product" crafts once/twice a week, and the great process art pieces the rest. It really weighs down on me and I hate it.

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I have to say, that one good thing about the Quality Rating Systems and their use of FCCER's is that some of the things parents expect are definately considered NO NO's.

-Product art is highly discouraged, unless it's done sparingly (and then it's a fine-motor activity, not an art activity).

-According to NAEYC's Developmentally Appropriate Practices, while a curriculum is encouraged, it's a PLAY BASED curriculum. Meaning, the teacher (that's us) encourages and facilitates play, always there to support the children's interests. For instance, children are playing "restaurant", the teacher finds some notepads and pencils, a cash register, and maybe helps them make their own menus. Or, if they are interested in being astronauts, she finds a big cardboard box, lets them paint or color it silver, and viola', it's a space ship. In a really "good" program, that might lead to a field trip to a museum that has a space ship of some sort.

-My Early Childhood Associates Degree program really encourages exploring an emmergent curriculum where the children's interests and conversations are the launching point for a unit study.

My problem is money, honestly. I have enough toys, and then some, to rotate things around now and then. BUT, I don't have enough toys or space to keep TONS of stuff on reserve, then access them when needed.

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