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  #1  
Old 01-08-2019, 10:55 AM
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Ms.Kay Ms.Kay is online now
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5 month old..3 days a week first time parents. Baby woke screaming in PM nap...inconsolable..after 30 min..gave her a bottle she drank 8 oz. This was the first day back after a 2 week vacation. Mom writes a 2 page letter...telling me 24 oz for her is way too much milk...baby is here 9.5 hrs. Mom calls pediatrician and peds said what you make is enough. Mom tells me never to use the frozen milk..unless dire emergency. I'm livid!. A. I have been doing this for 26 yrs. B. I feed infants on demand until satisfied I'm giving my self a day to respond so I can think clearly. I keep a daily journal for infants..and told mom at pick up yesterday. Mom said what she pumps at work is plenty..which is 10 oz..plus she nurses am and PM. Mom also stated in baby's "other daycare" aka grandma...this.is enough milk. I'm trying to put in words she might actually listen to... Here is a completely different environment. I have 7 kids from 18 mo to 5 yrs. This is a high sensory environment vs 1 on 1 caregiver like home or grandma
Basically different environment..different needs. Second...pumping is great...however mom and baby are not in the same environment..pumping at work is stressful...and from what I remember..26 years ago...when you pump..your body will only make what baby last ate. Any words of advice ladies?
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:38 AM
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I wouldn't write a book because there's no point. She wrote a book for you. Did it educate you? Improve your relationship with her? No. She's got blinders on and she'd rather tank her daycare than reassess her parenting methods.

If they're going to starve their child, that's up to them. I'd tell them that it's illegal for a daycare provider to withhold food from a hungry child, that every doctor has advice to give but advice from a client's pediatrician does not override your judgment, and that if they want her on a diet to limit her milk intake they'll have to find another provider.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:45 AM
happymom happymom is offline
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24oz would be much more than the recommended range. I'm wondering why baby was offered 8oz of milk at once? It seems like a recipe for overfeeding to me.

I can see why mom is concerned. A lot of moms don't make quite what baby needs at daycare. I always had to pump an extra session before I went to bed or in the morning in order to keep up (especially around 4-8 months)

https://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/pumping/milkcalc/
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:52 AM
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I can see 24 oz over just half the day being excessive, unless the child isn't eating at home, but if 10 oz won't take the child through the day, 10 oz is too little. The link you provided says that up to 30 oz is typical, and as the OP pointed out, if there's only 10 oz being produced over the course of the day, there might not be a large supply during the other hours.

I sent DD with 16 oz and she always finished it to within half an ounce. Different kids feed differently. If the child is in distress because 10 oz isn't enough, I wouldn't feel comfortable keeping the child without backup formula that I have permission to use at my discretion.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:09 PM
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If you tried everything else and that is what worked, clearly the child needed more sustenance. I would just tell her that and as another reply said- let her know that you feed on demand and if she's looking for a provider who restricts feedings she will need to look elsewhere.

I exclusively BF my 13 month old and it's been years since I had a BF baby in care, so I can't comment on the quantity but I do know that BF babies nurse for various reasons (comfort, building up immunities when they're sick, etc). I don't know if that translates to pumped milk but even so all babies and kids have varying stages they go through in regards to hunger and intake as well.

The link someone else supplied might be a useful tool if you have the information that is required to do the calculations, or you could just send her the link and ask her how the math comes out for her. Good luck!
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Kay View Post
I keep a daily journal for infants.

Any words of advice ladies?
Don't do that.

Sometimes too much communication can be as bad as not enough.

Some days littles will take more, others they take less. It fluctuates with their growth patterns, not DCM's breastfeeding experience plan. This was not even a thing until pretty recently.

Part-time infants are rarely worth the effort involved, so if you two can't get on the same page, I'd fill the slot with a full-timer.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:25 PM
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My understanding is that those on team "ounce an hour" feel that the child should learn to view the breast as a place to get more food, and the bottle as something that gives them less food. They want the child to spend more time on the breast, and that's why they restrict feedings from the bottle.

I tell ALL breastfeeding moms that either they provide me with enough milk to satisfy their child or they sign a release allowing me to supplement with formula. I will not and can not restrict feedings when an infant shows signs of wanting more. Breastfed babies are all over the place with what they want in a bottle. I have had 6 month olds taking 2-3 oz at a time and others taking 6-8 oz at a time. Whatever THEY want is what they get.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:29 PM
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Most babies, when they're done drinking milk, they're done. I'm sure you didn't force feed 8 oz. to this baby.
My dcm sends 4 5-oz. bottles of breast milk and the 8 mo I have drinks anywhere from 10 oz. a day to 15 oz. a day. And this sweet little guy is a chunker. He's not taken well to solids yet so he's really not getting any sustenance there. But every child is different.
I think the doctors stick to their 'book of knowledge' protocol more than anything. And book smarts aren't all that.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:12 PM
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Ok I pumped and the amount varrys for each pump, I never found it to be the same as what I pumped last time. Though I did not make enough for my first and had to supplement with formula. Did not feed off breast with him. My second I mostly breast feed for the first 5 months (baby then became to distracted by DKs to continue to feed that way) and pumped for freezer stash. Once again my amounts varried with I pumped both while he was breast feeding and then bottle feeding.
Overall both my boys were eating any where between 24 to 35 oz. Per day by that age. For them 24 was the minimum of what they ate. Some days they would eat additional bottle and some days not.
If mom wont allow you the freedom to feed baby what it needs while in your care, you may have to term. You can just let her know that babys feeding needs change daily depending on numerous factors, such as sleep, type of play and play environment.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:14 PM
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Thank you ladies!! Again ..you all have so much experience and knowledge!
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:24 PM
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Pumping is most definitely not an accurate representation of what a baby gets nursing. some moms don't get anything while pumping but nurse just fine.
I would feed baby until they are full or term. I've had some babies that drank a ton and some so barely ate. I always go off of baby's cues vs a measurement.
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:21 AM
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Honestly, I don't take infants anymore and this is one of the reasons why.

If it were me, I'd say they have two choices:
1. Send ample amount of milk a day and there is to be absolutely NO shaming the provider (me) if I feel the need to use it. Because let's face it, if I use it, it's because I feel the child needs it and I do what's in the best interest of the child.
OR
2. Don't send it, but if the child cries inconsolably for more than 15 minutes, I am calling for pick up.
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmom View Post
Honestly, I don't take infants anymore and this is one of the reasons why.

If it were me, I'd say they have two choices:
1. Send ample amount of milk a day and there is to be absolutely NO shaming the provider (me) if I feel the need to use it. Because let's face it, if I use it, it's because I feel the child needs it and I do what's in the best interest of the child.
OR
2. Don't send it, but if the child cries inconsolably for more than 15 minutes, I am calling for pick up.
Same here...

I used to enjoy a baby now and then but with all the requirements from the state and all the issues infants have on their own coupled with the issues parents create for them, I just can't anymore.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:59 AM
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I am with happy mom on this.

So here are my questions

1. Are you pace feeding the baby?
2. Did you bf your own children? Did you pump?
3. Did you make an 8 oz bottle on to begin with or did you go back after the first 4 oz and make more because baby was still fussy?
4. In what ways have you educated your self on proper handling and feeding of bm?
5. How many servings per day do you typically serve?
6. How long had it been since the last bottle?
7. Does the baby spit up at all during the day?

*Fp program requirements are 4-6 oz per serving.*
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:47 AM
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Our licensing says that infants have to be fed on demand, so it's easy for me to blame state licensing regs.

But if it wasn't in state regs, I'd blame my policies, meaning I simply don't keep babies here who are not left with plenty of food. At drop off I unpack all the bottles that parents bring and make sure the parents are leaving me with plenty, including extra in case the baby is having a sudden growth spurt.

I tell parents that I take good care of the bottles and try to not waste and I send home what I can reasonably save. I rarely have to dump much.

I wouldn't have this big argument with the mom. Just decide what you are/are not willing to do and inform her.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:03 PM
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Annalee Annalee is offline
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The last few moms I have had with infants went South fast. I now only take infant siblings of children already enrolled. Just not worth my sanity or the time I waste "explaining why".
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