A good teacher I helped mentor out of college just left the field because he has been trying for a year to get transferred to infants and was told they couldn't take the "risk" of him diapering. I just read another thread about DCM who (correctly) pulled child after finding out provider had someone living with & watching kids without telling DCP or letting them see background check. She made the right call- I would have given the same advise if it was sister/ mom/ female friend that moved in. Every time something like this comes up I see some variation of "I don't let DH around the kids". It confuses/irritates me because I couldn't imagine telling my wife "Hey Honey- Love ya, trust ya, but you're not safe to have around the kids. Run along now."

I'm not asking about the general public: 50% don't have an issue, 25% are surprised about guys in childcare but have an open mind, and 25% are opposed to the very concept. I'm talking about ECE as an industry. If professionals act like the guys we trust the most aren't safe, how are we supposed to grow this industry to be more diverse? I've had directors publically make statements about men in ECE that would get flamed if it was about any other demographic group & it's taken as fact or with a "what'cha gonna' do?" shrug off attitude. Or am I just making a bad assumption that the field wants to be more diverse? Should women just be telling guys "This is our thing- stay out. If you do get involved, be prepared to be guilty till proven innocent your whole career?"

If this sounds harsh- my apologies. I'm just at that stage between confused/ frustrated/ & p*ssed.

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I have to admit, I'm guilty of this. We are involved in ministry (not daycare wise but personally) and because of that are sure to not be alone w a person of opposite sex. Not a church rule, just a personal one. In order to protect my husband and my family, I ensure there is always another female adult with him if he's alone w my daycare. I completely understand the double standard. I completely think it's unfair. However, it's a protection I see is worth the hassle and blatant discrimination.
It would shatter my husband if an accusation was ever made. Absolutely shatter. He isn't a provider though, just an adult in my home. I think I'd feel differently if he were the provider or co provider.
Just being honest.

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I am sorry this stereotype exists. You shouldn't be judged based on gender, and I think it's great the kids in your care get a wonderful role model. I wish my son would have had a male provider, I think it would have given him more confidence and made him more open.

I was at training with some students in college for early childhood education. Out of ten students three were male, so I think the numbers may be rising. I also think part of the problem is center work is low paying, and so it has typically been women in this role.

So, all my rambling is just to let you know I greatly admire you for your dedication! Don't let others make you feel unappreciated!

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It's hard. I think most people are good and most men can be trusted. My hubby doesn't want to be alone with the kids, and when we had foster kids we kept teens and he wouldn't let me leave him alone in the house with the girls, I had to take him with me. He fears being on the side of being accused and having to prove himself innocent. If not for his fears, I would have no issues with him being with any kids, he just wouldn't do anything. He however couldn't do daycare anyway, the noise alone makes him nuts lol.

I think part of the issue is that we are surrounded by news and media these days. Any time something happens, we hear about it for weeks. Every little detail, every circumstance. I think our constant access has changed us and how we view things.

How do we change perceptions? Good question and I have no clue! But look how many women we are starting to hear about and things like this, I think we are starting to find out that the things "we" worry about with men happen just as much with women, we are just starting to hear about it more. Really we all have to be careful with our kids no matter who leave them with and that is the understanding everyone needs to have.

Hang in there, it must be rough.

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I hear ya Dave...my dh actually is my backup here so if I have an emergency or need to make an appointment, he is in charge here. He has taken all the classes and he is (well, he was before he got his new job) around a lot so he knows the routine and children well enough to operate the daycare by himself.

All my parents know he is around and involved on a regular basis. They all know he is my backup but I always have told them when I will be leaving him in charge when I make an appointment and they never had a problem with it. This is because I make this known from the very first interview.

However, I have had parents not enroll here because they balked at the idea of a male being arou d their kids during daycare.

I once had an interview with parents of an infant girl and they immediately freaked out when I told them my dh would be around and also be my backup. They said I should tell him to keep away during daycare hours and if I made an appointment, they will pickup immediately.
I was baffled...I told them I have an infant daughter whom I frequently leave dh alone with because I trust him so why should it matter to them if dh is around? They argued that their daughter wasn't his daughter but I pointed out abuse can come from either gender and they recently adopted their daughter so by their theory...the dad would be most likely to abuse their new daughter because he's a male.

I get there are news reports and statistics but still...that's like saying we shouldn't allow females to work typically male dominated jobs because we believe females are more emotional or lack muscle mass. Sex discrimination can go both ways...it's not fair but the only way we can fix it is if we talk about it and make steps to close the gaps.

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I think we all have to be careful of being accused of something inappropriate . But , It is all too easy to be falsely accused by a parent because they are mad.
I see zero male teachers at my kids elementary school , most are at the middle / high school level .

I have to say that I would not trust a male or female that I did not know extremely well with any of my children especially when they were too young to express themselves , which is why I opened my own dc when I moved to MD.
But we had an incident in the family a few years back where a relative aged 7 yrs was abducted and killed by a neighbor . I have since lost trust in most people where it comes to my children's safety.

My DH is one of my subs , he has only been left with kids who are good friends of ours and it was once . Whenever he is home during dc hours he is never alone with the kids and never changes a diaper .He may play with the sa kids outside , football , basketball etc.. but that is with the parents permission and I am out there with the little ones .

My sister has run a child care for over 15 years , at one time she and her husband were co-owners / co licensed for a large family home care . All it took was one parent to falsely accuse him of inappropriate touching and it almost ruined them . It took months for the investigation to be cleared up , he was found innocent because they had proof he was not even at the home when the supposed incidents happened . But that accusation will always be on their record . He has left the dc business after that and she runs it alone.

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I have two large labradors in my home. I love them to pieces, they are big, goofy, cuddly messes. However, I would never allow them to be around the children in my care simply because the liability is not worth it. The same goes for my DH. He is the kindest, nicest guy I've ever met, and the kids love him. That being said, I would NEVER allow him to change diapers or help the kids to the bathroom, or dress/undress. I would do anything to protect him, and my business, and this is the best way to do both.

Simply because the nicest parents become BAT-POOP CRAZY when they get even a tiny hint of suspicion in their mind.

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I see the same thing in elementary schools. The only male teachers in my DD's school are the gym teachers. The only males in the school are the grounds crew, the cleaning crew and the two male gym teachers.

Nannys are popular in my area. I have seen men advertising and have heard people's discussions on the topic. The men don't have a chance of being hired.

At my home daycare I use my DH in case of emergency if my sub or my mom can't help. People have told me that they were weary at first but once they got to know him day in and day out they felt they could trust him. YET they had no problem leaving their children with my mom or sub without ever meeting them (i always offer a sit down for a meet and greet).

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My husband is my #1 backup at daycare. He can handle things well when I am away. I trust him more than anyone else, and I know he cares for the kids the way that I do. I have only had ONE mom question having him cover, and it was only a question-she asked if he knows how to care for infants. I assured her that he does, and everything was fine after that. I know that a lot of moms just don't let their husbands care for their own children, or that the dads just don't want to care for their own infants, so I can understand where a woman may think that a man couldn't do the job, but it's just not the case at all.

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One time my mom (who always sees herself as progressive and for equal rights) was picking me up from a child development class and noticed a guy came out of the door and even commented that it would have made her uncomfortable if we had a male teacher when we were in daycare and I explained to her that colleges are trying to give people incentives to work outside of gender role careers such as men working in nursing or child care/education and women in more industrial and business related careers.

One family I nannied for, the mom knew I was planning on opening a daycare/preschool and I guess she automatically assumed I was going to take her son (her daughter probably not until preschool since she was a SAHM) and would try to find ways to sneakily suggest how I run it (small town and no nut free preschools). Based on her friend who had one back in their home town's personal decisions (which she tried to make it to sound like were official state regs) I wasn't allowed to have pets or men at my daycare. I knew both were bull because I worked at an FCC with pets and most women who do home daycare are married/ in a relationship with a man who may live with them and have male relatives (in CA you can't have a separate home to do daycare in). Not to mention the daycare dads coming in and out the door through out the day. Plus it's against the law because it's discrimination. A former friend of mine even applied to work at a FCC ran by a man, it actually fell through because she and her mom (who owned the FCC I worked at) thought the guy was too nice/lax with his house rules (letting the kids go outside without shoes, letting them throw toys around and not have to clean it up). I've heard some single mom's prefer if there is a positive male role model around (especially if the child's dad is not involved at all).

I read the other post and decided not to respond because I didn't want to start an argument and part of me wasn't sure if this was only about the fact that the provider didn't give her access to background checks and neglected to inform her ahead of time or if it was because there was a new man in the house (would she have even thought to say anything if it was a woman)? Also while I do realize parents have the right to know about anyone living in the house, a separation can be hard enough on a provider without having to broadcast it to all your clients (what happened to separating business from personal). Though it was a bit of a red flag that it seems the provider instantly let a new guy move in right after her husband moved out, I can see why she would try to avoid mentioning that to daycare parents (her mister?), though would that be their business too? Sometimes people don't understand that caregivers are people outside of work and that providers have to give up a lot of privacy when running a business out of their home. (Little rant)

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Oops, double post

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My dh is my backup. No one ever questioned it or didn't bring there child.
I'm pretty sure the kids like him more than me!!! Lol

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I can't stand people like this.....

I have a male asst and my husband that both work with me. I love love love my male asst he is the best employee I have ever had.

I have had parents turn their noses up at me when i tell them and I just say well looks like we are not a good fit for each other.

One lady went off on me once and I said I am sorry you feel this way, but I guess what you are telling me then is that your husband should not care for your daughter then either. She was very nasty.

My male asst, is openly gay and I have had a few parents leave over it. Good, there's the door. I just don't understand why people think they should have to have a say in what your abilities becuase of your gender or se x ual preference is. Who cares what you do behind closed doors...I don't want to know what anyone does in their own time behind closed doors.

It is an unfortunate stigma, but I think it just has to do more with ignorant people. LIke the same people who judge me because of my culture.

UGH, I feel for you dave, this frustrates me to no end as well.

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I had an interview a few weeks ago . They asked who else would be around or provide care ( a valid question). I said I have a friend who is my sub , my husband is also my sub and as soon as my dd turns 18 she will be added as my sub .

They did not like that my dh was a sub , I said well he lives here and the children would see him in the morning or his days off . They asked if I could not let my dh be a sub/ interact with the dck when their child was here , I said " no , but I can let you know ahead of time if he will be a sub and you can keep her home that day " .
Now my dh has never really cared for the dck except once in 12 years and they were school aged kids who are good friends of ours but it was the way she was telling me to not let him be seen around in his own home .

Needless to say she said they were not coming - good because I was not taking them .

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I understand what you are saying about liability, but part of the problem is a person should not be compared to a dog. Male providers are competent professionals not "goofy, cuddly messes". I know you didn't mean it rudely, but I think that comments like that are part of the problem. My dh doesn't sub, but he lives here. He comes first. If parents are uncomfortable with my dh, a father of 3, from interacting with their children then we won't work out.

Back when I taught my principal never closed the door all the way when meeting with female students (middle school age). Just a sad reality of suspicion and fear The door was open for his protection not the kids!

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Reading my words, I guess I can see where you think I was comparing my DH or male providers to a dog. Certainly not, just making a comparison about liability. I trust my DH implicitly, and of course I would never think twice about leaving my own children in his care. But trust has absolutely nothing to do with a business. I feel terrible for the kind, caring male providers that always have to watch their back for a suspicious parent to report them, but the fact remains that there will always be suspicious parents who are waiting for a chance to report something. It's not male providers that I don't trust...it's the parents.

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So then if we (general we...women in the ECE field) don't make a stand how are things ever going to change?

My DH is my sub/assistant but I DO allow my DH to change diapers, assist in the rest room and do EVERYTHING I would do because I am demonstrating to parents my trust in him.

I don't give two hoots about their stereotypical feelings as I am VERY clear about my DH's role here and if parents don't like it or won't risk it, then I am not the right program for them.

When contacted by our local college ECE program about interns working with area child cares, I specifically requested a male student. No one else did. Some providers were adamant that males don't belong in the field at all.

I CHOOSE to take a risk so that it begins to crack the stereotyping that we see in this field.

Like anything, taking action is the first step and protecting either party (clients or your male family members) under the guise of liability is a cop out in my opinion. That was not directed AT YOU but to everyone who uses the liability excuse when confronted with this subject.

Anytime this topic comes up on this board, I am saddened by the number of providers that openly admit that they themselves would never leave their child with a male caregiver.

Statistics show that male caregivers do NOT abuse (sexually, physically and/or emotionally) their charges anymore than female caregivers do. Less actually. It is just somehow more newsworthy.

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I just breifed through most of this and the other similar feed
but
I have had men as subs too and I am a single mother of a girl
I believe it is very important for children to have men and woman as " healthy " role models
gay or not . married or not ex......

I also had interview with a single mother of 2 girls ...first thing she said was " I do not want my girls alone with a man "
and I could tell, she had a bad experience as a young girl herself

so yes to record checks ( both relivent feeds )
and morals and values very important in raising children
and I feel it is impoart for both genders to be in childrens lives

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Thanks folks. This really set me off this morning. He and I got into the field in similar ways (Moms who ran home daycares then started centers). Just annoyingly stupid.

This problem won't effect me. I've been in my area long enough that I can keep my 4-6 spots filled till it makes $$$ sense to quit and teach CPR/ First Aid & make knives full time. To me this hurts the field being taken seriously as a profession because 1/2 the population is somehow "unsafe" for the job because they pee standing up.


Thanks for posting, but I fundamentally disagree with the concept. Publically treating someone you love as untrustworthy under the guise of "protecting" them makes suspicion more likely, IMHO. If someone had an issue with my wife being around the kids my response would be "Deal with it or there's the door". Not only is it not the best way to protect you & your spouse but isolating a spouse from your business could be used as "evidence" something was amiss. Also, if I compared dealing with my wife as similar to my dog (for whatever reason) how long would it take before torches and pitchforks were passed out here for my head on a platter?

Someone who would file a false report will do so regardless of any "safeguards" you have in place. As for misunderstandings, familiarity and integrating your family into your daily routine is a much more proactive method of preventing problems rather than shooing them away and hoping for the best.

Thanks all.

ETA: MNJ- was doing 3 things at once so didn't see your second post till after I posted. Didn't think you were comparing DH & a dog, but the principal still is the same. The "liability" argument is basically sticking head in sand and hoping nothing bad happens. At best it's overly optimistic. More likely it's counterproductive.

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I used to work for a domestic violence shelter and during that time I had to take classes.

During this class I Learned that the reason the statistics show that men have a higer average than women in any form of abuse is because 75% of men who are abused by women do not report it.

It also went on to say that 85% of men who were sexually assaulted by women also went unreported.

and after working in that field for years I hands down believe it.

to me a statistic is just collected data and it's never going to reveal 100% truth if not everyone is willing to add to the data collected.

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This is what I was trying to get at. Thank you. We must set the example of acceptance and gender equality in our field - especially if we expect men to do the same for us in fields women are discriminated against.

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This also makes me absolutely insane!! I would LOVE for there to be more male teachers and child care staff. If I was to hire an assistant it would be a male.

I think it is very important to show children and some adults that men of any, race, nationality, sexual orientation etc. are perfectly able to care for, nurture and educate children.

My DH is a my emergency back up person, he is here every morning, lunch and at pick up time. All my dcks love him and I do think they love him more then me! He is wonderful with the dcks and it warms my heart to see the interaction that goes on between them. It makes me feel proud that my husband wants to be a part of our daycare. I make it very clear to families that he is a part of the daycare and will be here often and engage with them. None have objected and ALL have commented on how much their children love him.

Dave - keep doing what your doing and be the voice for so many who want to do childcare but, are scared because of what society has to say.

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Thank you for articulating my thoughts more eloquently.

We take a risk operating a daycare no matter our gender as any minor issue can easily escalate to a parent claiming child abuse, whether to be petty or because they are paranoid.

Part of this seems to be a problem with our media and overall culture. It's not okay...

Also...my dh has been gone for the whole week due to his new job and all I hear from the daycare kids all day is "where's ds' s daddy?"

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I do understand where you're all coming from, especially you, Dave. I feel so much sympathy towards you about this subject. Women in history have had to fight just as hard to be seen as equals in the business world, your struggle is no less important to break through perceived gender roles.

As far as sticking my head in the sand, I'm totally ok with that. Sorry, this is not my fight. My job is to keep my business open and leave as few chinks in my armor as possible when it comes to liability.

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That is true for domestic violence but those statistic have nothing to do with abuse of a child by the caregiver.

I think the abuse of a child by their caregiver is reported almost every single time/case.

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I don't know the answer to that, I just know that men are more likely to be accused of being the abuser in any setting due to the lopsided statistics...

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Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. It is not "your fight" till it is your DH accused. Then your "safeguards" could just as easily be used against you. Keeping him out of the daycare could be construed as knowing or suspecting he wasn't trustworty, and the accusation could portray you as negligent or reckless because it "happened" despite your "precautions".

To carry the "armor" analogy further you've polished the breastplate but forgot to put on the helmet & arm/leg guards.

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By keeping my safeguards in place, I have two employees who can testify honestly in a courtroom that he could not have been inappropriate with a child, since he doesn't change diapers or help with bathroom duties. The children are visualized by myself and my two employees at all times. I would not even lose a minute of sleep because I would have proof.

I didn't realize how offended everyone would be at my position...I see it no differently than my choice to not transport children in my car. I want to cut my risk down as low as possible, and this is just one of my strategies. My business is very important to me, it's my livelihood and my absolute favorite job I could ever imagine having. I'm sure that most parents are progressive as far as male providers go, but if there's even one parent in 500, that's too big a risk for me. I've already termed a parent who lied to me about why she left her previous provider. I found out that she falsely accused her previous provider's husband of misconduct, because her daughter started being shy around him for no reason. I termed for other reasons, but the point is that I've already met the type of person who would act on an unfounded suspicion. I hope with my whole heart that never happens to you, or any other provider or dh.

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My Dh is the full time asst in our daycare. He DOES change diapers and help in the bathroom, as well as everything else that I do.
I once worked in a center that had a male school age teacher. One day they had him working all day to give breaks. I was in the toddler room (1 year olds) and he came in there with me to give my assistant a 1 hour break. Diaper changing time was during that hour. I started changing and told him I'll do 6, then you can do the other 6 (just like my assistant and I always did). He told me no. That he wasn't allowed. I laughed because I thought he was kidding. He wasn't. Turns out, this center had a policy against make staff members changing diapers. An actual policy! I was soooo mad! I even caked the corporate office because I thought it was ridiculous and sexist and just plain stupid, honestly. I'll never understand why people in this industry continue to reinforce this stereotype.

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You are not interpreting these statistics properly. Just because 75% and 85% of men who are abused or sexually assaulted by women do not report does not mean that they outnumber women's abuse statistically. If 10 men were sexually assaulted last year and 85% of that 10 didn't report, it is still a very low number compared to women, especially given that many women also do not report. Whoever taught that class was being very irresponsible IMO if this is the impression you left with. You don't need to throw women under the bus in order to speak up for men. All victims deserve justice.

I think guys get a tough break for sure and I wish there were more men but women have enough hurdles to deal with in the workforce. My DH takes care of the kids sometimes and upon express consent of parents. It sucks that men get a bad rap but there's not much I can do to change it when most predators are male and most predators choose professions where they come in contact with kids.

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