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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Termed Family, What Should I Expect
Luvnmykidz 04:16 AM 01-13-2018
Hello. Yesterday I did an immediate termination due to disrespect of the father. He hung up on me so I terminated care at pick up.
Here is the back story. This is a family of 3 children, state pay and the father isn’t listed on the contract (he did not sign the contract for enrollment, only mom did). Mom has told me several stories about him being abusive to her ( slashing her tires, chasing them around with a knife, threatening to kill them, and so on). They have a few domestic violence cases against each other. Mom has also said that he flips out when he has to watch the kids and usually is high or drunk. I have not reported anything because there is no physical proof of the children being hurt. Yesterday I went to the school to pick up the 5 year old for after care and waited and waited for the child to come out. When the child didn’t come out I went into the school asking about the location of the child. No one knew so I requested to speak with the teacher to find out where the child was. The teacher was contacted and said the child went home on the bus. I let the school know that the child wasn’t supposed to and was supposed to be a van rider and that they need to contact mom. I do not go around the community picking up or looking for children who are not at the location they’re supposed to be at for pick up. That’s not a part of what I offer in my program. It makes things complicated and I have other dck’s and other schools that I occasionally pick up at. Mom knows this as this has happened before. Before I left the school I contacted mom to inform her that the child was not at the school and had gotten on the bus. Mom was stressing saying that it would take her some time to get there and he would be alone at the house until someone got there. I told her I was going back to the Daycare and it was her responsibility to handle that situation from that point, as I let them know upon enrollment I don’t do that. She also knew there was a bus heading to my house for another dck that I needed to get ( her other child). While I’m talking to mom dad is in the background saying ask her to go by our house and get him at the bus stop. She doesn’t say anything about it but he’s repeatedly saying it in the background. We get off the phone and then the dad calls. He asks if I left the school and I say yes I’m waiting for the bus (siblings bus)to get here (special needs bus pulls up at my door for drop off and pick up). Dad say well that child will be ok on the porch for a few minutes, but the kindergarten dck needs to be picked up so would I go get dck. I immediately reply that’s illegal and no I’m not doing that. Dad says my kids about to be out there alone and I’m asking for it as a personal favor for me. I reply I don’t do personal favors, I have other things to do and dad hangs up. I call the mom and they answer the phone, but say nothing. This is extremely disrespectful that they’re upset with me because they didn’t inform the right people at the school that he would be there for after care. They switch it all the time because they don’t want to pay the rate so other people will pick up and drop off to me. I immediately began preparing for termination at pick up because dad has a violent history with mom and was disrespectful to me, so I’m not sure what his next actions would be. About an hour and a half later dad shows up at the Daycare to get the 2 Daycare kids that I have. I ask if mom is with him and he says yes she didn’t want to come in. I then say well I need to speak with her I need her to come in. This is because my contract is with her not him so I need to term with her. He has his phone in his hand and replies to me she said she’s not coming in, you can call her though. I say okay no problem. He sends the kids to the car and stays inside and closes the door behind him (he’s still in the Daycare). He then says umm what are we gonna do about this bread, I say what are you talking about and he starts demanding that I give him money back because they had to go get dck and I didn’t pick dck up from school. I say dck wasn’t at school and I don’t owe you anything. He says owe your gonna give me back my money I paid, I need to get that bread back. I explain my contract is not with him, I requested her to come in and she didn’t want to, we have nothing to talk about and then said your children are outside so you no longer have a right to be in here so get out, she’s welcome to come talk to me. He stands in the doorway and tells her to come in and again I tell him to get out, he goes out mumbling stuff and I close and lock the door. She knocks and I let her in. I explain that I’m terminating care immediately because he was disrespectful and I don’t provide care to families that behave that way, I don’t want that in my Program. I hand her the notice to sign and she says I’m not signing nothing. So I say that’s fine and hand her the youngest dck items in a bag and a copy of the letter and open the door and she walks out. I contact the voucher program to let them know I Immediately termed the family. Mom did not say anything to me when i was speaking to her at the Daycare other than she wasn’t signing nothing, but text after she left that I didn’t have the kids till 7 so basically I owe her money back and then asking about getting the deposit that she never paid in full. The state paid a portion of her deposit and it’s in my policies that it’s non refundable. I am however worried that the dad may try and retaliate based on his last behavior with her around Xmas eve. She went Xmas shopping for the kids and he didn’t want to watch them and didn’t want her to buy them anything so when she returned home he chased her around with a knife and slashed her tires. At this point what should I do and what should I expect.
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Josiegirl 04:49 AM 01-13-2018
Unfortunately, there is no predicting what that jerk is capable of. Wow. All I can say is I'm glad to hear that dcf is gone from your dc!!
I'm sure you've documented all of this so you have a written record. Call licensing to warn them of an irate parent situation who you immediately termed, maybe ask them for any other advice? Contact the school to make sure none of the kids are sent to your place again, due to non-enrollment.
Can you alert your local P.D. to the potential situation just so they are aware? Can you file a restraining order against them?

That's all I have except wishes for good luck and that they're gone for good! Yikes!
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Luvnmykidz 05:52 AM 01-13-2018
I was wondering if I should attempt to file a restraining order, but because he didn’t become physical with me and didn’t threaten me just stated repeatedly that I was going to give him back his money. I didn’t think those were grounds to file, but if someone knows whether that’s enough or not please let me know and I will gladly go file, both parents have criminal records from what I saw on the case search. Mom has something up there for destruction of property and domestic violence and he has domestic violence. They know what my daycare vehicle and personal vehicle look like, obviously where I live and pretty much my routine for the day as far as pick ups and drop offs go and I’m a bit worried that they will most definitely retaliate and do something to one of my vehicles.
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racemom 07:52 AM 01-13-2018
I would at least contact your local police department and tell them what happened. Let them know you are afraid of retaliation, and ask if they could send a cruiser by when in the area to watch for trouble. Also, call licensing give them a heads up on the situation.
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hwichlaz 08:49 AM 01-13-2018
He wasn't leaving when asked. He was trespassing at a childcare facility.
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mommyneedsadayoff 11:36 AM 01-13-2018
I would file a restraining order and let the PD know EXACTLY what happened. If they have previous records, then at least the PD is aware of the situation and may have more knowledge on whether it is likely to escalate. Either way, they can hopefully give you some support. Cut off all contact, bock numbers, and be alert. Good luck to you! Sorry they are such jerks!
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Mike 12:07 PM 01-13-2018
Definitely tell the police about it. Even if they can't do anything, at least it will be on record if something does come up.
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Ariana 02:33 PM 01-13-2018
I think the mom is probably full of crap and if they both have domestic violence violations she is likely just as bad as he is. You are getting one side of it. The fact that she did not apologize profusely for the mixup and refused to come in to talk to you say a LOT about the type of person she is. It is ridiculous that they treated you this way. Romantic violence is very different from stranger violence so just because they are violent with each other doesn’t mean they will be with you.

I wouldn’t report, other than to licensing and just be wary of possible slashed tires...but honestly I doubt they’d do that. Just be totally professional but don’t budge on your policies.
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MomBoss 02:41 PM 01-13-2018
I would install a camera system immediatly to record anything they may do in retaliation, it sounds like destorying property is their thing. No video evidence means no proof they did it (if they do anything) and therefore police wont charge them.
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Luvnmykidz 02:51 PM 01-13-2018
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I think the mom is probably full of crap and if they both have domestic violence violations she is likely just as bad as he is. You are getting one side of it. The fact that she did not apologize profusely for the mixup and refused to come in to talk to you say a LOT about the type of person she is. It is ridiculous that they treated you this way. Romantic violence is very different from stranger violence so just because they are violent with each other doesn’t mean they will be with you.

I wouldn’t report, other than to licensing and just be wary of possible slashed tires...but honestly I doubt they’d do that. Just be totally professional but don’t budge on your policies.
My main concern is the fact the the special needs School agers bus stop is set up for my house for pick up and drop off every day and in order for her to change that it will take up to three weeks. His school isn’t in the area and let’s out at the same time as her youngest school after so she’s isn’t able to transport him to/from school. I go back and forth with the fact they may not do anything, and the fact that either one or both of them will be in the parking lot twice a day for the next 3 weeks until this change is made. That leaves a lot of opportunities for them to do something to my vehicle or property early in the morning or during the day when no one is really around and they are thinking about the fact that they no longer have Daycare and whatever else they may not like about there situation. I completely agree as well that her lack of concern or apology showed who she really is.
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Luvnmykidz 02:56 PM 01-13-2018
I will be sending an email to my licensor so that she’s aware of the situation. It’s sad that the real victims in this whole thing are these children who see ignorance on a regular basis and are not given the opportunity to develop stable friendships or relationships with peers. They have been bounced around and this is the oldest 4th school. It will be close to impossible for her to find a provider accepting 3 voucher children, one of which is special needs and a fluctuating schedule where care is needed as early as 6 am and as later as 9pm. Not sad to be rid of them but I do feel for the kids.
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Josiegirl 02:59 PM 01-13-2018
Video camera is a good idea; is there any way you can do that? Or at the very least maybe a light that comes on when someone goes past, in case anything happens at night?
IMO I think they sound like exactly the type of people who might retaliate. Hope they don't but better to be prepared.
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284878 05:00 PM 01-13-2018
Call the special needs school in the morning (an hour or more before pick up) and INFORM them that the child will no longer be allowed to be picked up at your home. This is your property and you let them no they are not allowed!

I had foster kids and changing bussing does not take that long even for special needs. Saying that the child will not be at your home means that they do not have to send the bus out and can change their route. Just like they do when you/ dcm calls and says the child is sick and will not be going to school.
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Luvnmykidz 06:43 PM 01-14-2018
Originally Posted by 284878:
Call the special needs school in the morning (an hour or more before pick up) and INFORM them that the child will no longer be allowed to be picked up at your home. This is your property and you let them no they are not allowed!

I had foster kids and changing bussing does not take that long even for special needs. Saying that the child will not be at your home means that they do not have to send the bus out and can change their route. Just like they do when you/ dcm calls and says the child is sick and will not be going to school.
I will definitely do that on Tuesday morning when schools reopen.
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Luvnmykidz 06:49 PM 01-14-2018
So to update on this situation, I went to the Sheriffs office and spoke to the commissioner who informed me that there is no preventative measures that I can take other than to just keep an eye out. They said regardless of the fact that the father sent the kids out and came in closing the door(I feel he was trying to intimidate or scare me) doesn’t mean he had intentions on doing something. I can not get a protective order or peace order unless a threat to hurt or damage me or my property was made or an act of violence was committed. They said when or if something does happen and I contact them I have to have some proof that it was them. My plan is to get cameras. I feel that it’s unfair that people can not protect themselves in situations like this before something happens, seems backwards to me. They would not make a report and were unconcerned about the family history of violence and kept saying nothing can be done until something happens.
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Josiegirl 01:56 AM 01-15-2018
Originally Posted by Luvnmykidz:
So to update on this situation, I went to the Sheriffs office and spoke to the commissioner who informed me that there is no preventative measures that I can take other than to just keep an eye out. They said regardless of the fact that the father sent the kids out and came in closing the door(I feel he was trying to intimidate or scare me) doesn’t mean he had intentions on doing something. I can not get a protective order or peace order unless a threat to hurt or damage me or my property was made or an act of violence was committed. They said when or if something does happen and I contact them I have to have some proof that it was them. My plan is to get cameras. I feel that it’s unfair that people can not protect themselves in situations like this before something happens, seems backwards to me. They would not make a report and were unconcerned about the family history of violence and kept saying nothing can be done until something happens.
Sad but that's the way it is. Nothing can be done until something happens.
Cameras are the best idea then. At least you'll have proof. Good Luck!!
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Blackcat31 06:59 AM 01-15-2018
Originally Posted by Luvnmykidz:
So to update on this situation, I went to the Sheriffs office and spoke to the commissioner who informed me that there is no preventative measures that I can take other than to just keep an eye out. They said regardless of the fact that the father sent the kids out and came in closing the door(I feel he was trying to intimidate or scare me) doesn’t mean he had intentions on doing something. I can not get a protective order or peace order unless a threat to hurt or damage me or my property was made or an act of violence was committed. They said when or if something does happen and I contact them I have to have some proof that it was them. My plan is to get cameras. I feel that it’s unfair that people can not protect themselves in situations like this before something happens, seems backwards to me. They would not make a report and were unconcerned about the family history of violence and kept saying nothing can be done until something happens.
Bull cockey! That is such BS!

There are laws to protect you if you feel unsafe and it isn't AFTER someone provides proof... I think the sheriff is feeling you a line of bs.

You have CHILDREN in your home.
Children that you are obligated to protect.
If you feel unsafe due to a father's actions in YOUR HOME you DO have a right to be protected. At the VERY least the sheriff should have offered to contact the father and tell him he is not to have any further contact with you or your daycare. This includes the property.

The parents can pick up the special needs child AT school so that the busing situation can get worked out.

I would call the bus garage and tell them the bus NO LONGER has permission to drop off the above child on your property and if they do, you will report an abandoned child...I'd call and tell them verbally and I would send an e-mail to them so that you have proof that you requested this bus drop not happen.

This father knows how to play the system and in my opinion was trying to intimidate you. That is NOT okay.
You do NOT need proof of that. How do you prove you were fearful...

If you have an attorney you can contact, I would do so. If you do not, I'd find one or call legal aide in your community and talk to them.

Parents do NOT have a right to threaten or intimidate a provider in their own homes and the police department should be ashamed of themselves for telling you to get proof before taking your claim of fear seriously.

I am appalled by that.

Call licensing, the bus garage and an attorney.
You have a right to be safe in your home and not have to fear past clients.


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MomBoss 12:12 PM 01-15-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Bull cockey! That is such BS!

There are laws to protect you if you feel unsafe and it isn't AFTER someone provides proof... I think the sheriff is feeling you a line of bs.

You have CHILDREN in your home.
Children that you are obligated to protect.
If you feel unsafe due to a father's actions in YOUR HOME you DO have a right to be protected. At the VERY least the sheriff should have offered to contact the father and tell him he is not to have any further contact with you or your daycare. This includes the property.

The parents can pick up the special needs child AT school so that the busing situation can get worked out.

I would call the bus garage and tell them the bus NO LONGER has permission to drop off the above child on your property and if they do, you will report an abandoned child...I'd call and tell them verbally and I would send an e-mail to them so that you have proof that you requested this bus drop not happen.

This father knows how to play the system and in my opinion was trying to intimidate you. That is NOT okay.
You do NOT need proof of that. How do you prove you were fearful...

If you have an attorney you can contact, I would do so. If you do not, I'd find one or call legal aide in your community and talk to them.

Parents do NOT have a right to threaten or intimidate a provider in their own homes and the police department should be ashamed of themselves for telling you to get proof before taking your claim of fear seriously.

I am appalled by that.

Call licensing, the bus garage and an attorney.
You have a right to be safe in your home and not have to fear past clients.

Unfortunately it is true, you need proof your life is in danger. Proof you have something to be afriad of. Ive tried getting a restraining order, but they wouldnt grant me one because I needed proof it happened and proof it wont stop. Without proof, anybody could get a restraining order "just because" or petty reasons that waste the laws time and it wouldnt be right for the other person to have it on their record if the crime never happened, but because someone just said so without proof, its now on their record.
That is why I suggested a camera. Ive been down this road.
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Blackcat31 01:47 PM 01-15-2018
Originally Posted by MomBoss:
Unfortunately it is true, you need proof your life is in danger. Proof you have something to be afriad of. Ive tried getting a restraining order, but they wouldnt grant me one because I needed proof it happened and proof it wont stop. Without proof, anybody could get a restraining order "just because" or petty reasons that waste the laws time and it wouldnt be right for the other person to have it on their record if the crime never happened, but because someone just said so without proof, its now on their record.
That is why I suggested a camera. Ive been down this road.
I am speaking from experience as well.

I had a VERY similar situation happen years ago in my care and I was never told such a thing by our local law enforcement.

As a matter of fact, once I reiterated I was a child care provider and the incident happened in my child care house during a drop off, the police department started sending an officer to my neighborhood to do a drive by when they knew the parent I had issues with was getting off work.

They also contacted the parent and told they were to have NO contact with me, my business, my family and any and ALL daycare clients currently enrolled.

I filed a temporary order for harassment and was granted the request. I wasn't required to prove anything other than the parent created a hostile and fearful environment.

After the THO expired, I was granted a regular OFP that was valid for 2 yrs. Other than describing the incident itself, I had no proof. No adult witnesses, no cameras, nothing but my word against the parent's.

I think in these types of cases the judge makes the call based on whatever info he/she knows.

I don't understand what type of proof a person could use to demonstrate or prove fear.
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Blackcat31 01:51 PM 01-15-2018
Originally Posted by MomBoss:
Unfortunately it is true, you need proof your life is in danger. Proof you have something to be afriad of. Ive tried getting a restraining order, but they wouldnt grant me one because I needed proof it happened and proof it wont stop. Without proof, anybody could get a restraining order "just because" or petty reasons that waste the laws time and it wouldnt be right for the other person to have it on their record if the crime never happened, but because someone just said so without proof, its now on their record.
That is why I suggested a camera. Ive been down this road.
Also in almost all cases a temp order (7-10 days) is issued and then the respondent has the right and the option of going to court and stating their side (why they shouldn't have an order placed against them).

If they convince the judge they aren't threatening or harassing, the judge will deny the permanent order.

Temp harassment orders do not appear on anyone's record.
They are just a temporary stop order so that all parties have the opportunity to prove their sides in court.

A judge might be able to "see" how many times someone has/had a temp order issued against them but it isn't something anyone has knowledge of.
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MomBoss 02:01 PM 01-15-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Also in almost all cases a temp order (7-10 days) is issued and then the respondent has the right and the option of going to court and stating their side (why they shouldn't have an order placed against them).

If they convince the judge they aren't threatening or harassing, the judge will deny the permanent order.

Temp harassment orders do not appear on anyone's record.
They are just a temporary stop order so that all parties have the opportunity to prove their sides in court.

A judge might be able to "see" how many times someone has/had a temp order issued against them but it isn't something anyone has knowledge of.
I think it all depends on where you live and the judge you get. I even had video evidence. I was attacked in front of a camera at a store, told police to look at it, and since i defended myself, they called it a mutual "frey" and charges wouldnt be pressed against anyone. I couldnt believe it! I was told I need ongoing proof of harrassment, so ive been keeping text messages. After my experience I have little faith in the system so im not sure if im going to try getting a restraining order again and wasting my money.
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Blackcat31 02:12 PM 01-15-2018
Originally Posted by MomBoss:
I think it all depends on where you live and the judge you get. I even had video evidence. I was attacked in front of a camera at a store, told police to look at it, and since i defended myself, they called it a mutual "frey" and charges wouldnt be pressed against anyone. I couldnt believe it! I was told I need ongoing proof of harrassment, so ive been keeping text messages. After my experience I have little faith in the system so im not sure if im going to try getting a restraining order again and wasting my money.
You still have a right to file a temp order and ONLY a judge can say yes/no to whether or not it's granted beyond temp status. The police didn't need to see the video....the judge did (as it's your proof).

But the police can give you all the opinions they want, especially in regards to who is charged with what criminally, but they have nothing to do with whether or not you can or can't get an OFP.

My DH was physically assaulted by two young men a year ago. He defended himself and the police told him pretty much exactly what you stated above....both parties are/could be guilty. Depends on what the judge says.

Our attorney still advised my DH to file for an OFP.
He was granted an immediate but temp OFP upon filing for it. Ten days later the respondents 'no-showed' for the hearing and it was granted (for 2 yrs) but the rest of the case is still pending.

If you are still fearful of the person that assaulted you and the harassment still happens, you DO have a right to file for an OFP and it would be up to the judge (not the police) as to whether or not it would be granted.

Also, just because the police didn't press charges against the person didn't mean you couldn't have. ANYONE has that right. It's during the hearing that it is decided who was at fault etc... but the police can't deny you your right to press charges even if they decide not to. It simply becomes a civil matter rather than a criminal matter.
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mommyneedsadayoff 04:18 PM 01-15-2018
Your contract is with mom and the kids left your house, which means he was trespassing on your property. With his threatening verbiage and history of violence, I would think a restraining order would be easy. I would personally get one against both, as I'm sure when you entered the agreement with mom, you did not know dad's history. They both sound like peaches be safe! Hope it all works out!
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