DCB Injury

[craftymissbeth]

I have a sibling set: dcb3 and dcb4. This is their third week of being in my care. I posted about dcb3's behavioral issues twice before... I'll try to link those posts when I have time.

Anyway, dcb4 constantly has his hands and feet all over dcb3. He thinks it's cute when he hurts dcb3 and when he instigates things to get dcb3 to misbehave. Today dcb4 spent a lot of time as my shadow and in time out. Every time he thought I wasn't looking he was all over dcb3.

The reason I say all if that is because dcm just called me and said they're in the ER with dcb3 because he has a "Palm sized raised red mark across his sternum over his heart". He has a super pointy sternum so they're afraid when he was injured that his heart could be affected.

She basically said this had to have happened at daycare today. She picked up at 2:30 while the boys were napping and I had just changed dcb3's pull-up at 12:00. He has to wear backwards footed pajamas while here so when I change him he strips all the way naked... I would have seen an injury like she's describing! Also, she called me at 5:13 pm from the ER... I'm not sure how long they've been there, but that's almost 3 hours from when he left here! Anything could have happened with her wild boys in that amount of time!


Nothing happened today and his behavior never once made me think he could have been hurt.

I'm FREAKING out!

[craftymissbeth]

Anyone?

Do I need to take steps with licensing or worry that I'm going to lose my business? I'm so worried

[Cradle2crayons]

Deep breath.

First, I would explain to mom that at his 12:00 diaper change, no injuries were noted.

Have you documented conversations with mom about the behavior issues... Documented behavior reports... Anything like that??

Why did mom pick up during nap time? Any specific reason??

I would find out specifics from mom and document the conversation. I keep a communication log just for verbal communications with parents.

I would ask when she noticed the injury. What led up to it. Did she notice it at a diaper change at home. Did he start crying and she noticed it etc??

I would call licensing just to cya. I would find out from mom exactly when she got to the ER. Etc.

I would start documenting EVERYTHING. I would say to mom that from now on you have to examine both boys at drop off for any injuries before she leaves. I would then examine in front of mom at pick up. Mom will quickly realize you are on to her.

Some people would probably say this mom is way too much risk to keep as a client but terming because she's accusing you also would look suspicious.

I would call mom on her bluff. "Mom I examined dcb at his noon diaper change nd here were no injuries at that time. Are you accusing me of something?"

Likely mom is freaked out too and is just venting and speaking without thinking.

[Starburst]

Well, my childcare supervision instructor (who is also the preschool director of the schools CDC) says any time anything unusual or out of the ordinary happens at the preschool, she report it to licensing. Even if someone who was walking on campus came in to the CD center because they couldn't breath and 911 had to be called she reported it as an "unusual incident", even if it didn't directly affect the child care children or staff.

I would probably, at the very least, document it for now along with anything else the other child has done. If she said it was "palm shaped" I would probably see if there is a way you can measure the mark (is it the size of a child's palm?), if it does then probably look into putting DCB 4 on probation (if not terminate, since he did harm another child to the point of it leaving a mark and possibly affecting his health) and of course report it to licensing to avoid any future issues.

[Naptime yet?]

I would call/email licensing & let them know what happened. But if you've been documenting their behavior & injuries all along, & if something serious happened on your watch, why wouldn't you have documented that, also (rhetorical)?

Take a deep breath and I hope this blows over. The kids sound like a handful, DCM should not blame you, unfortunately providers become scapegoats for everything.

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons

Deep breath.

First, I would explain to mom that at his 12:00 diaper change, no injuries were noted.

Have you documented conversations with mom about the behavior issues... Documented behavior reports... Anything like that??

Why did mom pick up during nap time? Any specific reason??

I would find out specifics from mom and document the conversation. I keep a communication log just for verbal communications with parents.

I would ask when she noticed the injury. What led up to it. Did she notice it at a diaper change at home. Did he start crying and she noticed it etc??

I would call licensing just to cya. I would find out from mom exactly when she got to the ER. Etc.

I would start documenting EVERYTHING. I would say to mom that from now on you have to examine both boys at drop off for any injuries before she leaves. I would then examine in front of mom at pick up. Mom will quickly realize you are on to her.

Some people would probably say this mom is way too much risk to keep as a client but terming because she's accusing you also would look suspicious.

I would call mom on her bluff. "Mom I examined dcb at his noon diaper change nd here were no injuries at that time. Are you accusing me of something?"

Likely mom is freaked out too and is just venting and speaking without thinking.

Her pick up time is 3:00 so I'm guessing she just got off early? Idk

I have not been documenting all of the behavior issues or anything at all, actually, but I will from now on.

I emailed my licensor and am filling out the states incident report just in case I need it. Even if I don't it's at least documentation of the incident.

I'm just so worried... I told her she NEEDS to call me ASAP after they get out of the ER. I'm also going to ask her why she failed to tell me that any type of injury to his chest becomes a heart worry?? Ugh, I'm so frustrated.

[CraftyMom]

My reaction is, if he went down for nap at 12:00 and she picked up at 2:30, how is it still red and raised if it happened with you and it was now 5:00? It would not likely be still red as 3.5 to 5 hours later. Clearly it happened at home

Don't worry too much. If you haven't documented yet, do it now. Include how rough the boys are with each other on a daily basis and that you have to separate them so they don't hurt each other.

[sahm1225]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

Her pick up time is 3:00 so I'm guessing she just got off early? Idk

I have not been documenting all of the behavior issues or anything at all, actually, but I will from now on.

I emailed my licensor and am filling out the states incident report just in case I need it. Even if I don't it's at least documentation of the incident.

I'm just so worried... I told her she NEEDS to call me ASAP after they get out of the ER. I'm also going to ask her why she failed to tell me that any type of injury to his chest becomes a heart worry?? Ugh, I'm so frustrated.

I would write on your incident report that the mom called you at 5:13 to
Inform you of a raised red mark on dcb chest. You changed him out of his backward pjs at 2:30, right? Indicate there was no raised mark at that time.

Have you talked to the mom about dcb4 behavior? Document your verbal conversations (dates & times).

I would give your licensing rep a heads up.

When you talk to the mom, do not apologize for anything (don't say 'I'm sorry, I didn't see anything' instead say 'I didn't see any marks at 2:30 when you picked up'.) do not say anything that can be misconstrued as you admiring fault!

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by CraftyMom

My reaction is, if he went down for nap at 12:00 and she picked up at 2:30, how is it still red and raised if it happened with you and it was now 5:00? It would not likely be still red as 3.5 to 5 hours later. Clearly it happened at home

Don't worry too much. If you haven't documented yet, do it now. Include how rough the boys are with each other on a daily basis and that you have to separate them so they don't hurt each other.

Exactly. I was freaking out when she called me so I didn't really ask her any questions.

Originally Posted by sahm1225

I would write on your incident report that the mom called you at 5:13 to
Inform you of a raised red mark on dcb chest. You changed him out of his backward pjs at 2:30, right? Indicate there was no raised mark at that time.

Have you talked to the mom about dcb4 behavior? Document your verbal conversations (dates & times).

I would give your licensing rep a heads up.

When you talk to the mom, do not apologize for anything (don't say 'I'm sorry, I didn't see anything' instead say 'I didn't see any marks at 2:30 when you picked up'.) do not say anything that can be misconstrued as you admiring fault!

He was not changed at 2:30. She picked him up from his mat and carried him to the car. At that time I did talk to her about dcb4's behavior and that he HAS to stop touching his brother in any way while here. I couldn't even let them hug because it very quickly turns into rough housing. I emailed my rep a little while ago.

[sahm1225]

Originally Posted by CraftyMom

My reaction is, if he went down for nap at 12:00 and she picked up at 2:30, how is it still red and raised if it happened with you and it was now 5:00? It would not likely be still red as 3.5 to 5 hours later. Clearly it happened at home

Don't worry too much. If you haven't documented yet, do it now. Include how rough the boys are with each other on a daily basis and that you have to separate them so they don't hurt each other.

That's what I was thinking. He was asleep at 12:30 until she picked up. Marks don't typically stay raised for 5 hours! Wait to see what she says. I'm guessing the rough behavior is something that doesnt just happen at daycare kwim?

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by sahm1225

That's what I was thinking. He was asleep at 12:30 until she picked up. Marks don't typically stay raised for 5 hours! Wait to see what she says. I'm guessing the rough behavior is something that doesnt just happen at daycare kwim?

Yep, when I talked to her about the behavior she smiled and nodded and said "oh yeah" as in she knew what I was talking about. It obviously happens at home.

[craftymissbeth]

If they tell the ER it happened here are they going to report me? Am I going to get the bill? How in the world do people go about proving that sort of thing? I know without a doubt it did not happen here but ultimately it's my word against theirs, kwim?

[Scout]

[CraftyMom]

They can speculate that it happened there but they can't prove it. That's why it's important to have their behavior documented, even weeks back, as much as you can remember.

The timeline of when he was with you to when his marks were red won't add up.

Document the time mom called you, etc.

State the facts only, don't speculate or give opinion.

Document that you spoke with mom on xxx occasions about the behavior.

You may get a visit from licensing if they try to blame you.

Try not to worry too much about it though, just cya and be prepared with your documentation. I know a lot is running through your mind but it will be fine!

As far as getting a bill do you have any sort of clause that says you will not be responsible for medical bills for accidents that happen on your property? This can't be proven to have happened on your property anyway so I don't see where it would be an issue. Mom brought him to the ER not you.

[jenn]

I'm so sorry. What a headache!

I would document the whole day today in detail. Everything that the boys did, ate, early pick up, conversation with mom at pick up, phone call...

Since you said you didn't document previous behavior, I would go back and make some rough notes about behavior and discussions with mom about the behavior. You may not be able to put exact dates, but maybe do Week of March 17-21 and some random notes.

I am glad you emailed licensing. it's always best for them to hear your side before they hear from an irate parent. Covers your butt a little I would call them in the morning. I can't remember for sure, but I think you are in the same county as I am. If your assigned person is not available, ask to speak to any of the licensing/surveyor people.

Just in case the mom does say something at the ER that makes them suspicious or calls licensing and they want to check out her story, I would be prepared for a visit from licensing. I doubt it will go that far at all, but better safe than sorry. I would make sure your home is ready and that your paperwork is ready to be viewed.

Good luck. Try to relax. You know you didn't do anything wrong.

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by CraftyMom

They can speculate that it happened there but they can't prove it. That's why it's important to have their behavior documented, even weeks back, as much as you can remember.

The timeline of when he was with you to when his marks were red won't add up.

Document the time mom called you, etc.

State the facts only, don't speculate or give opinion.

Document that you spoke with mom on xxx occasions about the behavior.

You may get a visit from licensing if they try to blame you.

Try not to worry too much about it though, just cya and be prepared with your documentation. I know a lot is running through your mind but it will be fine!

As far as getting a bill do you have any sort of clause that says you will not be responsible for medical bills for accidents that happen on your property? This can't be proven to have happened on your property anyway so I don't see where it would be an issue. Mom brought him to the ER not you.

I don't have a clause like that because I don't think it would hold up in court. If someone WERE injured here I'd be responsible even if I have that in my contract.

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by jenn

I'm so sorry. What a headache!

I would document the whole day today in detail. Everything that the boys did, ate, early pick up, conversation with mom at pick up, phone call...

Since you said you didn't document previous behavior, I would go back and make some rough notes about behavior and discussions with mom about the behavior. You may not be able to put exact dates, but maybe do Week of March 17-21 and some random notes.

I am glad you emailed licensing. it's always best for them to hear your side before they hear from an irate parent. Covers your butt a little I would call them in the morning. I can't remember for sure, but I think you are in the same county as I am. If your assigned person is not available, ask to speak to any of the licensing/surveyor people.

Just in case the mom does say something at the ER that makes them suspicious or calls licensing and they want to check out her story, I would be prepared for a visit from licensing. I doubt it will go that far at all, but better safe than sorry. I would make sure your home is ready and that your paperwork is ready to be viewed.

Good luck. Try to relax. You know you didn't do anything wrong.

I'm a county over, I believe

I'm definitely going to write down as much as I can remember. Good thing I just had my annual inspection last week

[craftymissbeth]

And everyone, thank you so so much. I'm hoping it all just blows over, but I'm still worried.

[jenn]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

If they tell the ER it happened here are they going to report me? Am I going to get the bill? How in the world do people go about proving that sort of thing? I know without a doubt it did not happen here but ultimately it's my word against theirs, kwim?

If it came down to your word against hers...

You are a professional, operating legally, have documentation of this accusation, contacted licensing prior to the mother, and other parents that are happy with the care you provide.

She has 2 out of control children and a story with a timeline that doesn't quite add up.

[CraftyMom]

Originally Posted by jenn

If it came down to your word against hers...

You are a professional, operating legally, have documentation of this accusation, contacted licensing prior to the mother, and other parents that are happy with the care you provide.

She has 2 out of control children and a story with a timeline that doesn't quite add up.

Yeah, what she said!

[SilverSabre25]

how is this turning out? what a total crock, really.

How is a red mark over the sternum such a huge concern anyway? Does he have heart problems you haven't been told about?

This whole thing seems ridiculously bizarre. The timing is wrong, everything is wrong.

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by SilverSabre25

how is this turning out? what a total crock, really.

How is a red mark over the sternum such a huge concern anyway? Does he have heart problems you haven't been told about?

This whole thing seems ridiculously bizarre. The timing is wrong, everything is wrong.

I know! I'm trying to sleep but I'm just lying here turning it over in my mind. If a minor injury can cause major heart problems I should have known about that first thing. There is nothing on his health assessment... in fact, it says there are no issues at all.

I'm worried that the real reason they went to the ER is to document the injury so they can accuse me of hurting him.

Then again I've had 4 hours to think up all of the horrible things that are about to happen to me

She was supposed to call me back after the ER visit but she hasn't. They're scheduled to be here at 5:30 in the morning... if they do show up do I take him? I mean, obviously he needed to go to the ER for this major booboo... maybe he needs a day of rest

[SilverSabre25]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

I know! I'm trying to sleep but I'm just lying here turning it over in my mind. If a minor injury can cause major heart problems I should have known about that first thing. There is nothing on his health assessment... in fact, it says there are no issues at all.

I'm worried that the real reason they went to the ER is to document the injury so they can accuse me of hurting him.

Then again I've had 4 hours to think up all of the horrible things that are about to happen to me

She was supposed to call me back after the ER visit but she hasn't. They're scheduled to be here at 5:30 in the morning... if they do show up do I take him? I mean, obviously he needed to go to the ER for this major booboo... maybe he needs a day of rest

Honestly? I would call or text mom right now and let her know that since you haven't heard from her, his attendance tomorrow is contingent on you getting a response from her about the injury and what the ER docs said.

Something like, "Hey, DCM, I know it's late but i wanted to check on DCB. I assume he's not coming tomorrow sine I haven't heard from you yet and this sounds like something that needs a day of recovery at home. Please let me know if I can expect you in the morning. Best wishes to DCB!"

Best case, the hospital told her to gtfo and stop wasting time and resources. Worst case, there IS a serious problem and she hasn't called because they are still there.

[Evansmom]

Originally Posted by SilverSabre25

Honestly? I would call or text mom right now and let her know that since you haven't heard from her, his attendance tomorrow is contingent on you getting a response from her about the injury and what the ER docs said.

Something like, "Hey, DCM, I know it's late but i wanted to check on DCB. I assume he's not coming tomorrow sine I haven't heard from you yet and this sounds like something that needs a day of recovery at home. Please let me know if I can expect you in the morning. Best wishes to DCB!"

Best case, the hospital told her to gtfo and stop wasting time and resources. Worst case, there IS a serious problem and she hasn't called because they are still there.

I was going to say this.
And add, you need to get a clear answer from mom about possible heart conditions and what's going on there. If you were not told of injuries possibly leading to heart problems when he was enrolled I would personally consider terming. I'd wonder what she was trying to pull.

[sahm1225]

Originally Posted by SilverSabre25

Honestly? I would call or text mom right now and let her know that since you haven't heard from her, his attendance tomorrow is contingent on you getting a response from her about the injury and what the ER docs said.

Something like, "Hey, DCM, I know it's late but i wanted to check on DCB. I assume he's not coming tomorrow sine I haven't heard from you yet and this sounds like something that needs a day of recovery at home. Please let me know if I can expect you in the morning. Best wishes to DCB!"

Best case, the hospital told her to gtfo and stop wasting time and resources. Worst case, there IS a serious problem and she hasn't called because they are still there.

Originally Posted by Evansmom

I was going to say this.
And add, you need to get a clear answer from mom about possible heart conditions and what's going on there. If you were not told of injuries possibly leading to heart problems when he was enrolled I would personally consider terming. I'd wonder what she was trying to pull.

Totally agree with both of them.

An injury that required the ER AND the mom not contacting you, means the child needs a day to recover. Although, if I was in your shoes, I would want them to come the next day just so I could talk to the mom face to face.

[daycare]

I require every child that needs to seek medical treatment for any reason to have a doctors diagnosis and treatment plan before return. So this situation would require one.

You can then decide if you are willing to take the child on or not.

I feel for you that this situation got so out of hand. I hope things get better.

Hugs

[craftymissbeth]

So mom showed up this morning and said she was just being a "crazy mom" last night when she was trying to figure out what happened.

They went to Wal Mart, watched a movie, picked up the older brothers from wherever they were, and then she noticed it. yep, could have happened at any of those places.

I had her show me his chest. It's literally one tiny little scratch. Like half an inch. There's no red mark or swelling and I pointed that out to her. She said it's all pretty much gone now the hell?

Anyway, I told her I wasn't happy about not knowing about the chest issue and she said it's really nothing to worry about until he's a teenager

I'll be documenting like crazy from now on and I'm still going to cover my rear with this situation because I'm still nervous.

[MissAnn]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

So mom showed up this morning and said she was just being a "crazy mom" last night when she was trying to figure out what happened.

They went to Wal Mart, watched a movie, picked up the older brothers from wherever they were, and then she noticed it. yep, could have happened at any of those places.

I had her show me his chest. It's literally one tiny little scratch. Like half an inch. There's no red mark or swelling and I pointed that out to her. She said it's all pretty much gone now the hell?

Anyway, I told her I wasn't happy about not knowing about the chest issue and she said it's really nothing to worry about until he's a teenager

I'll be documenting like crazy from now on and I'm still going to cover my rear with this situation because I'm still nervous.

Glad it worked out......but she put you through a lot of misery!!! That makes me mad! Wonder what the ER said to her? Have a great day......you deserve a great day!

[sahm1225]

Originally Posted by MissAnn

Glad it worked out......but she put you through a lot of misery!!! That makes me mad! Wonder what the ER said to her? Have a great day......you deserve a great day!

Glad it turned out okay. Yes please document everything! It was incredibly ride for her to not call you after she was done at the ER. I'm guessing by the time the doctor came in to see them at the ER, that the HIGE red welt was already gone!

[daycarediva]

Originally Posted by jenn

If it came down to your word against hers...

You are a professional, operating legally, have documentation of this accusation, contacted licensing prior to the mother, and other parents that are happy with the care you provide.

She has 2 out of control children and a story with a timeline that doesn't quite add up.

I am glad it seems to be working out.... BUT this is a GIANT red flag for me.

Why isn't it an issue until he's a teenager? Why isn't something on his medical records? Why didn't Mom mention this? What will her reaction be WHEN big bro leaves a mark while they are in your care? (or he falls and gets hurt)

If I were you, I would be advertising and interviewing to replace.

She reminds me of somebody elses munchausen Mom, in all honesty.

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by daycarediva

I am glad it seems to be working out.... BUT this is a GIANT red flag for me.

Why isn't it an issue until he's a teenager? Why isn't something on his medical records? Why didn't Mom mention this? What will her reaction be WHEN big bro leaves a mark while they are in your care? (or he falls and gets hurt)

If I were you, I would be advertising and interviewing to replace.

She reminds me of somebody elses munchausen Mom, in all honesty.

I agree. The whole situation has me on red alert with this family. At pick up I'm going to talk to her more about it.... specifically because if there's any possibility that his chest could be injured by something minor then we need to separate the boys. I'm not willing to leave it to chance that the older one is going to figure it out. AND if there is an issue WHY IN THE WORLD do they let their kids rough house?! I saw a picture on dcd's Facebook of all 4 of their boys wrapped around each other in a big ball and the caption says "guess I shouldn't let them watch so much UFC with me"

[mia]

WOW..... glade its a little better now for you.... how scary.... I would definitely be documenting everything....

Speaking of .......
Would anyone be willing to share their documenting forms.... for I think that I may need to start doing this as well... I just write quite notes on how the day goes and if parents state how the night went..... The reason I'm asking is I feel that I have a client that may some day do this same thing.... So it would be great to have a better lay out / format then what I do now.....

Any sharing would be great.... for it may also help someone else that is unsure....

Thanks

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by mia

WOW..... glade its a little better now for you.... how scary.... I would definitely be documenting everything....

Speaking of .......
Would anyone be willing to share their documenting forms.... for I think that I may need to start doing this as well... I just write quite notes on how the day goes and if parents state how the night went..... The reason I'm asking is I feel that I have a client that may some day do this same thing.... So it would be great to have a better lay out / format then what I do now.....

Any sharing would be great.... for it may also help someone else that is unsure....

Thanks

For injuries I'm using my state form

http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/applicat...l_Incident.pdf

You could probably use that if your state doesn't have one or create one similar in Word. For everything else I'm going to jot down in a regular notebook or in Word.

[Blackcat31]

My concern is mom's seemly bizarre behavior going from overly concerned mom who is in the ER to a self admitted "crazy mom" who had level enough head AFTER leaving he ER to do a little shopping????

I would be having a face to face discussion with this mom about her accusing you of something.... I mean that is pretty serious and for her to put you in such a stressful situation by saying that it happened on your watch without even acknowledging that her children can be out of control and overly rough a majority of the time!!!!!

THAT would NOT fly here.....

I totally understand that things can and do happen at daycare but the way this whole thing went down warrants a sit down conference in my opinion.

She needs to be told that you take your business VERY seriously and professionally and that her lackadaisical attitude about the way her children behave is sad and not something you will continue working with if she is going to willy-nilly accuse you of something every time the kids get a red mark.

[mia]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

My concern is mom's seemly bizarre behavior going from overly concerned mom who is in the ER to a self admitted "crazy mom" who had level enough head AFTER leaving he ER to do a little shopping????

I would be having a face to face discussion with this mom about her accusing you of something.... I mean that is pretty serious and for her to put you in such a stressful situation by saying that it happened on your watch without even acknowledging that her children can be out of control and overly rough a majority of the time!!!!!

THAT would NOT fly here.....

I totally understand that things can and do happen at daycare but the way this whole thing went down warrants a sit down conference in my opinion.

She needs to be told that you take your business VERY seriously and professionally and that her lackadaisical attitude about the way her children behave is sad and not something you will continue working with if she is going to willy-nilly accuse you of something every time the kids get a red mark.

I agree...

[mia]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

For injuries I'm using my state form

http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/applicat...l_Incident.pdf

You could probably use that if your state doesn't have one or create one similar in Word. For everything else I'm going to jot down in a regular notebook or in Word.

Thank you .....sounds very similar to what I already use,,,,, Thanks again .....

[NoMoreJuice!]

Oh my goodness...I am so sorry for you because I know how much you were freaking out during those hours when you didn't know what was going to happen. I had a similar incident with a girl a few years ago, and I have one piece of advice for you:

Wait two weeks, then term for something unrelated. This will happen again with an anxious/paranoid mom and it's going to cause you a LOT of stress. Better to have a little stress now than to risk losing your business later.

Also, (this is just my personal opinion) the dad letting them watch UFC is going to translate to big problems in your daycare. I had two boys whose dad was an MMA fighter and encouraged "rough play" as he called it, and they literally destroyed my home and hurt all the other children in it. I think that humans fighting each other for money is literally the dumbest thing society has ever come up with. I realize humans came up with this concept thousands of years ago, but I think it's time to evolve.

Ok, back on track. Anyway, big sigh of relief for you, and I wish you luck with this family in the future.

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

My concern is mom's seemly bizarre behavior going from overly concerned mom who is in the ER to a self admitted "crazy mom" who had level enough head AFTER leaving he ER to do a little shopping????

I would be having a face to face discussion with this mom about her accusing you of something.... I mean that is pretty serious and for her to put you in such a stressful situation by saying that it happened on your watch without even acknowledging that her children can be out of control and overly rough a majority of the time!!!!!

THAT would NOT fly here.....

I totally understand that things can and do happen at daycare but the way this whole thing went down warrants a sit down conference in my opinion.

She needs to be told that you take your business VERY seriously and professionally and that her lackadaisical attitude about the way her children behave is sad and not something you will continue working with if she is going to willy-nilly accuse you of something every time the kids get a red mark.

She went shopping before she noticed the mark it totally could have happened there.

I'm going to talk to her again. I'm documenting every. single. time. either of them touch each other. It's already happened twice. It's difficult for me going from a group of kids that I have "trained" so well and then throwing in two siblings who aren't yet "trained" in what I expect of them.

They're getting there, though. I didn't put on the 3 yo's backwards pj's today and he only tried to strip once... took his shirt off and I gave him the choice of sitting in TO or putting it back on. He chose TO for about 30 seconds and then put it back on. He also goes to TO with no problem now. btw, the stripping tantrum occurred because he was told not to touch the baby's PNP.

Now that dcb3 is well on his way to non-heathen-like behavior I'm noticing all of dcb4's issues. Thank goodness he's going to kindly in the fall. I'd like to keep them if I can because the money I get from dcb4 from now until school starts will pay for my vacation with ds to Disney World

[craftymissbeth]

Oh I got off track... I was also going to add that this morning at drop off I again told mom that there's no way it happened here and reexplained how I would have seen any marks at 12 when he was changed. She didn't even acknowledge it she just said "I was racking my brain and trying to think if he'd fallen at all while I had him. We went to walmart and then cuddled in the recliner watching a movie until we picked up the older boys". Uh, ok but it STILL didn't happen here. It's so hard to believe this wild child sat still for 3 hours while all of that went on

[KIDZRMYBIZ]

Thank goodness this didn't turn into a big mess for you. I think we've all had major stressors like this at one time or another, and only another provider understands the massive anxiety it causes.

I'm sure this will be forgotten in no time, but like PPs suggested I think you should look the kids over and keep careful documentation just in case.

I am always dumb-founded with instances involving kids that are 3 and older. Ask the kid what happened!!! They can talk, ya know, and they usually know what they're talking about!

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by KIDZRMYBIZ

Thank goodness this didn't turn into a big mess for you. I think we've all had major stressors like this at one time or another, and only another provider understands the massive anxiety it causes.

I'm sure this will be forgotten in no time, but like PPs suggested I think you should look the kids over and keep careful documentation just in case.

I am always dumb-founded with instances involving kids that are 3 and older. Ask the kid what happened!!! They can talk, ya know, and they usually know what they're talking about!

this guy talks up a storm but is complete gibberish ( to me). Maybe his parents understand him? But the 4 yo is with the 3 yo and myself most of the day. They could have asked him, I suppose.

[craftymissbeth]

So I was changing dcb and I checked out his chest. It looks totally fine... MAYBE a little swollen on one side of the bone and then there's the scratch in the middle. I said "oh man, bud, how did you get this ouchie?" ... not really saying it to him, but just thinking out loud. He very clearly said "my mama hurt me" and then dcb4 said "yeah my mom poked him too hard" the what did she do now?

So I asked "oh bummer, that stinks when that happens. How did she poke him too hard?"

Dcb4 says "she has too long fingernails and she accidentally poked him"

Ugh, I'm sick to my stomach now. I know you have to take what they say with a grain of salt which is why I didn't outright ask them in the first place, but they both said it was mom without me probing, kwim?

Family exceeds my drama limit.

I would start advertising.

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Family exceeds my drama limit.

I would start advertising.

[Laurel]

I lost my post and don't have time to read others to see if this has been said. For next time, I'd make sure you have liability insurance (if you don't already). Mine pays for any medical bills for injuries the child sustains at my house and also pays court costs if I ever get accused of child abuse, etc.

Laurel

[CraftyMom]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

So I was changing dcb and I checked out his chest. It looks totally fine... MAYBE a little swollen on one side of the bone and then there's the scratch in the middle. I said "oh man, bud, how did you get this ouchie?" ... not really saying it to him, but just thinking out loud. He very clearly said "my mama hurt me" and then dcb4 said "yeah my mom poked him too hard" the what did she do now?

So I asked "oh bummer, that stinks when that happens. How did she poke him too hard?"

Dcb4 says "she has too long fingernails and she accidentally poked him"

Ugh, I'm sick to my stomach now. I know you have to take what they say with a grain of salt which is why I didn't outright ask them in the first place, but they both said it was mom without me probing, kwim?

Definitely document that conversation!

I would tell mom "You'll never guess what your boys just told me!" Then hand her a term letter. I would not want these kids around. All that stress and it was Mom????

[NeedaVaca]

If what the kids say is true then it sounds like mom freaked out when SHE hurt him and was totally ready to throw you under the bus if anything happened. That is SCARY....

[Naptime yet?]

Crafty, I feel for you, this entire thread gives me nervous belly! Stay strong!

[daycare]

I second the way too much drama and move on....AND that says a lot coming from me because I deal with some major drama as you all know.

[craftymissbeth]

I just got off the phone with my rep and she says that if the parent or hospital file a report that they'll be out to investigate but based on my side of things it just doesn't add up. She said "take a deep breath and consider it a blessing that they brought their kids to you another day after the incident". Duh because if I abused their kid they surely wouldn't bring him back!

She also said that there's really no way that it would be red and raised only during the time she had him but before he left yesterday and this morning there's only a tiny scratch there.

She instructed me to fill out the incident form, attach my emails to/from licensing, and stick it in his file. And to document EVERYTHING! You ladies are so smart

I'm going to make a decision this afternoon after pick up on whether I keep trying with this family or not.

[taylorw1210]

This is obviously just speculation - but it sounds like she got too rough with her too rough boys, freaked out because she left a mark on her son, took him to the ER, and then attempted to start a cover story about how it must have happened at daycare.

I'd hand her a term letter immediately.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Originally Posted by NeedaVaca

If what the kids say is true then it sounds like mom freaked out when SHE hurt him and was totally ready to throw you under the bus if anything happened. That is SCARY....

That is what I was thinking and my stomach dropped when I read your story.

[Kabob]

I agree with the others. I would so be done with this family. Money is nice but just think of the stress you went through. Do you really want to go through this again? Odds are you will since their behavior is not the best and mom's sounds even worse.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Kabob

I agree with the others. I would so be done with this family. Money is nice but just think of the stress you went through. Do you really want to go through this again? Odds are you will since their behavior is not the best and mom's sounds even worse.

Exactly. Next time mom hurts one you will be blamed again.

[Kabob]

Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist

Exactly. Next time mom hurts one you will be blamed again.

And the next time could be worse. What if he hits his head or breaks an arm at home? Will she blame you for that? Then you have to defend yourself again. Now that you know her true colors maybe it's best to cut your losses and run. She made a pretty serious accusation already.

Good luck!

[MarinaVanessa]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

So I was changing dcb and I checked out his chest. It looks totally fine... MAYBE a little swollen on one side of the bone and then there's the scratch in the middle. I said "oh man, bud, how did you get this ouchie?" ... not really saying it to him, but just thinking out loud. He very clearly said "my mama hurt me" and then dcb4 said "yeah my mom poked him too hard" the what did she do now?

So I asked "oh bummer, that stinks when that happens. How did she poke him too hard?"

Dcb4 says "she has too long fingernails and she accidentally poked him"

Ugh, I'm sick to my stomach now. I know you have to take what they say with a grain of salt which is why I didn't outright ask them in the first place, but they both said it was mom without me probing, kwim?

Document, document, document

Add what you told DCB and what DCKs said to you.

I would start advertising now with the contingency that the "new" client can start in 2 weeks from the day they bring you all enrollment forms so that you can give ypur DCF 2.week notice once you have a replacement lined up.

[TwinKristi]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

So I was changing dcb and I checked out his chest. It looks totally fine... MAYBE a little swollen on one side of the bone and then there's the scratch in the middle. I said "oh man, bud, how did you get this ouchie?" ... not really saying it to him, but just thinking out loud. He very clearly said "my mama hurt me" and then dcb4 said "yeah my mom poked him too hard" the what did she do now?

So I asked "oh bummer, that stinks when that happens. How did she poke him too hard?"

Dcb4 says "she has too long fingernails and she accidentally poked him"

Ugh, I'm sick to my stomach now. I know you have to take what they say with a grain of salt which is why I didn't outright ask them in the first place, but they both said it was mom without me probing, kwim?

Aren't you supposed to report any suspected abuse as a mandated reporter?? I just may document THAT as well and fax that to CPS! Gotta cover your bases!

[Lucy]

Originally Posted by CraftyMom

Definitely document that conversation!

I would tell mom "You'll never guess what your boys just told me!" Then hand her a term letter. I would not want these kids around. All that stress and it was Mom????

YES! Absolutely do precisely ^

That is the perfect way to do it.

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by TwinKristi

Aren't you supposed to report any suspected abuse as a mandated reporter?? I just may document THAT as well and fax that to CPS! Gotta cover your bases!

But I don't suspect any abuse

I told my rep what the boys said and all she said was document that, too.

[Lucy]

Originally Posted by TwinKristi

Aren't you supposed to report any suspected abuse as a mandated reporter?? I just may document THAT as well and fax that to CPS! Gotta cover your bases!

Yes, good point!!!

And if you decide to "keep trying" with them, you're opening yourself up to this happening again. I'm totally not trying to be harsh here, but this incident spells T.R.O.U.B.L.E !!!!!!!

No 2-week notice, GONE TODAY at pick-up. Refund anything they've paid ahead. You're asking for trouble if they stay.

[Lucy]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

But I don't suspect any abuse

I don't know for sure, but maybe hurting your child and covering your butt by concocting a story to blame another, might fall under abuse?? She could feel free to hurt them again and just blame it on you, Grandma, Dad, Aunty, etc. I could be wrong ??? Just thinking outloud.

Originally Posted by Lucy

Yes, good point!!!

And if you decide to "keep trying" with them, you're opening yourself up to this happening again. I'm totally not trying to be harsh here, but this incident spells T.R.O.U.B.L.E !!!!!!!

No 2-week notice, GONE TODAY at pick-up. Refund anything they've paid ahead. You're asking for trouble if they stay.

This is a ticking bomb waiting to explode ....

[CraftyMom]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

But I don't suspect any abuse

I told my rep what the boys said and all she said was document that, too.

Personally, I wasn't thinking abuse either, just that she accidentally poked him or whatever. Not sure I would report it other than to licensing.

I've accidentally scratched my kids or poked them in the eye accidentally.

I think mom freaked out thinking she would be accused of abuse and tried to blame you

[taylorw1210]

Originally Posted by CraftyMom

Personally, I wasn't thinking abuse either, just that she accidentally poked him or whatever. Not sure I would report it other than to licensing.

I've accidentally scratched my kids or poked them in the eye accidentally.

I think mom freaked out thinking she would be accused of abuse and tried to blame you

I agree - but, that's some serious red flag behavior and I would not be comfortable with the family staying in my care...

[CraftyMom]

Originally Posted by taylorw1210

I agree - but, that's some serious red flag behavior and I would not be comfortable with the family staying in my care...

Me either

[TwinKristi]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

But I don't suspect any abuse

I told my rep what the boys said and all she said was document that, too.

I didn't suspect any abuse in a DCBs situation either but was told to report it by several other people on here even though I KNOW he's not being abused. Lazy grandma? Sure! Abuse? No! But I had to CMA!
Not to mention this mom obviously has NO PROBLEM throwing you and your business under the bus. Even saying it out loud "this had to have happened at DC!" is just crazy.
I don't understand why she went to the ER first of all. Seriously. A scratch/welt? Emergent? And admitting she was being a "crazy mom" and then come to find out it was HER who scratched him?? Accident or not! The sequence of events AFTER that happened and then just accusing you 3+ hours after they left is just crazy. I wouldn't want that liability in my house. Like your licensor said, it's a good thing she came back today, but what happens next time? Is she going to accuse you again and then not bring them back? Then that "mom pokes him too hard and scratches him" line may be lost in the shuffle without actual reported documentation. Your licensor also knows how this line of business works. Parents say crazy things and do crazy things when they're scared or upset. Her "crazy mom" moves could cost you your license if she takes it far enough. For all you know she took pics, told the ER it happened at your daycare to cover her error and they're reporting it today to CPS and you are the suspect.

[sahm1225]

u

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Family exceeds my drama limit.

I would start advertising.

[craftymissbeth]

Originally Posted by TwinKristi

I didn't suspect any abuse in a DCBs situation either but was told to report it by several other people on here even though I KNOW he's not being abused. Lazy grandma? Sure! Abuse? No! But I had to CMA!
Not to mention this mom obviously has NO PROBLEM throwing you and your business under the bus. Even saying it out loud "this had to have happened at DC!" is just crazy.
I don't understand why she went to the ER first of all. Seriously. A scratch/welt? Emergent? And admitting she was being a "crazy mom" and then come to find out it was HER who scratched him?? Accident or not! The sequence of events AFTER that happened and then just accusing you 3+ hours after they left is just crazy. I wouldn't want that liability in my house. Like your licensor said, it's a good thing she came back today, but what happens next time? Is she going to accuse you again and then not bring them back? Then that "mom pokes him too hard and scratches him" line may be lost in the shuffle without actual reported documentation. Your licensor also knows how this line of business works. Parents say crazy things and do crazy things when they're scared or upset. Her "crazy mom" moves could cost you your license if she takes it far enough. For all you know she took pics, told the ER it happened at your daycare to cover her error and they're reporting it today to CPS and you are the suspect.

I only have a minute to address one of your comments...

My rep said that more than likely I WILL be reported by either the parents or the hospital, but not to worry. Basically all they do is come out and get my side of the story, talk to mom, and make a decision. My rep talked to the other rep in my county and they both agree that based on my information a complaint would be unfounded, but they would still have to go through the motions. On my public record it would say I received a complaint, but it won't say what the complaint is. CPS wouldn't be involved apparently because of how my state's daycare licensing does things.

From what I've seen these children are not abused. I would never report someone to CPS because their children said that mom's fingernail was too long and she ACCIDENTALLY scratched him. In my post above i quoted the dcb and he said it was an accident. He's also 4 and at snack time he told me that he had a baby sister but they got tired of her and stopped feeding her so she died. He told me that same story a few days ago, but it was a dog instead of a baby. I have to take what he says with a grain of salt.

Just like I don't like dcm assuming it happened here I would never automatically assume she's abusing her kids.

[Lucy]

Have you decided whether you'll keep the family?

[Leigh]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

So I was changing dcb and I checked out his chest. It looks totally fine... MAYBE a little swollen on one side of the bone and then there's the scratch in the middle. I said "oh man, bud, how did you get this ouchie?" ... not really saying it to him, but just thinking out loud. He very clearly said "my mama hurt me" and then dcb4 said "yeah my mom poked him too hard" the what did she do now?

So I asked "oh bummer, that stinks when that happens. How did she poke him too hard?"

Dcb4 says "she has too long fingernails and she accidentally poked him"

Ugh, I'm sick to my stomach now. I know you have to take what they say with a grain of salt which is why I didn't outright ask them in the first place, but they both said it was mom without me probing, kwim?

This would have warranted a call to CPS from me. #1 because of the mom leaving marks on the child that were bad enough to warrant an ER visit, but mostly to cover my own butt. I'd have them come interview the kids at my home IMMEDIATELY. I truly doubt that CPS would find that Mom was abusive, BUT they would at least document the incident in case something happens in the future. And, Mom poking a kid in the chest (whose chest supposedly needs to be handled gently) isn't exactly "good mom" behavior, IMO.

[Evansmom]

So OP did you ever talk to DCM about the heart condition she mentioned? Honestly this would freak me out bc either she's lying about it or she's omitted telling you very important health info. Either way it would rub me wrong and send up huge red flags for me.

I know you want that vacation but I think keeping this family might be really risky and end up being not worth it.

[FCCarmyprovider]

I would term simply for the lying. She tried to throw you under the bus and now you will have a written complaint on your record? What a puta. Especially with what dcb's said that mommy did it. She was still trying to lie to you instead of saying of you know we were rough housing and I accidentally scratched him. She is setting it up to take the fault from herself. (That's a red alert for me) I WOULD TERM.
Good luck

[craftymissbeth]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to term, but I have to have at least one replacement first.

When I told her I wasn't happy that the chest thing was never mentioned she said that it's really not an issue until he's a teenager and then they'll have to break his sternum to give his heart and lungs enough room to grow. I'm not sure why they rushed him to the ER then this whole thing just confuses me

The money isn't what's making me want to keep them. Dcb3 has come a long way in three weeks... his bad behavior is almost non-existent and when he does try to use a tantrum to get his way I can end it pretty quickly.

Are you sure she actually took him to the ER. She might have just told you that so that you wouldn't question a scratch on his chest and report her. Honestly, what parent hasn't accidentally hurt there kid by scratching them, poking them, or bopping them somehow by mistake. Heck I wacked my 7 year old in the eye in the grocery store last week with a tub of butter after got behind me and I turned fast without knowing he was there and bopped him hard with the butter. She might have been reported previously for something so she was covering her butt at your expense.

[Cradle2crayons]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Are you sure she actually took him to the ER. She might have just told you that so that you wouldn't question a scratch on his chest and report her. Honestly, what parent hasn't accidentally hurt there kid by scratching them, poking them, or bopping them somehow by mistake. Heck I wacked my 7 year old in the eye in the grocery store last week with a tub of butter after got behind me and I turned fast without knowing he was there and bopped him hard with the butter. She might have been reported previously for something so she was covering her butt at your expense.

Sounds like my poor daughter... She has played softball for years and his year is the first year she hasn't been hit in the head with a. Not so soft softball.. Why the heck they call them softballs anyway???

Last year her own daddy planted one right between her eyes on accident during catching practice.lol

Crap happens but who truly accidentally injure their child, rushes them to the ER and then blames someone else....

Moms whole recount is fishy IMHO

[TwinKristi]

Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons

Sounds like my poor daughter... She has played softball for years and his year is the first year she hasn't been hit in the head with a. Not so soft softball.. Why the heck they call them softballs anyway???

Last year her own daddy planted one right between her eyes on accident during catching practice.lol

Crap happens but who truly accidentally injure their child, rushes them to the ER and then blames someone else....

Moms whole recount is fishy IMHO

This is honestly why I would consider reporting her. It's the idea that she did something, even accidentally which yes we all have as parents, but she then freaks out and turns into a self-admitted "crazy mom" and rushes him to the ER and blames you resulting in stress, added admin time and perhaps a visit from licensing. She possibly has mental-health issues and perhaps she is a little "too rough" with the boys especially with their rough behavior and admission of her "poking" too hard in the chest. I don't poke my kids. And if one had a potential heart issue (again... Why wasn't this mentioned before) why would mom be poking him so hard in the chest to leave a mark like that?? None of it adds up to me which is part of where my recommendation came from.
My old provider WAS abusing and neglecting her children along with mine. She was a picture perfect SAHM with a beautifully decorated home, cute kids, a daycare, etc but she was a raging alcoholic (and I heard later she was using drugs too but I don't know about that for sure) and leaving her children and mine to fend for themselves when she was drunk and passed out or puking. There were times they didn't eat lunch or just snacked on what they could find. It's disturbing. No one would have suspected abuse. You never know.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by craftymissbeth

I'm pretty sure I'm going to term, but I have to have at least one replacement first.

When I told her I wasn't happy that the chest thing was never mentioned she said that it's really not an issue until he's a teenager and then they'll have to break his sternum to give his heart and lungs enough room to grow. I'm not sure why they rushed him to the ER then this whole thing just confuses me

The money isn't what's making me want to keep them. Dcb3 has come a long way in three weeks... his bad behavior is almost non-existent and when he does try to use a tantrum to get his way I can end it pretty quickly.

Maybe she is one of those weird mom's that thrives on the attention medical and illnesses situations bring?

I have a current DCM that seriously goes to the ER every time her child wakes up in the middle of the night. She thinks the child MUST have something.

Once her oldest was having a growing pain and suffering from leg pain in the mornings after getting up.....DCM did her internet research and decided her kid had a terminal bone disease. She posted all over FB about her poor little thing (took pictures of child standing next to a wheel chair) and said "I hope this isn't where my little one is headed"

She THRIVED off the attention. She wasn't one of those Münchausen type moms but she sure gave them a run for their money.

Even now, a slight cold and the kids are in the ER.... never for the health benefit but always for the attention. I really think she thinks it makes her look like the world's best mom to be so on top of it all the time.

[MarinaVanessa]

I was thinking that non knew of DCBS condition and somehow (purposely or accidentally) poked him too hard, panicked, rushed DCB to ER and while waiting the adrenaline came down and she realized that maybe she rushed her judgment in taking him to the hospital and then realized she'll have a bill from ER (copay or whatever) then got to thinking about how she was going to explain that she poked DCB too hard and the ER visit to her DH kwim?

My first thought was that she needed to explain the incident somehow where she isn't involved, someone needs to pay the bill etc and of course it can't be her.

I'm hoping she simply just figured pinning it on OP would make things easier for her not knowing that those were serious accusations she was making and that it would open up a huge can of worms.

If I could afford to I'd term, if not I'd find replacements soon.

[taylorw1210]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

Maybe she is one of those weird mom's that thrives on the attention medical and illnesses situations bring?

I have a current DCM that seriously goes to the ER every time her child wakes up in the middle of the night. She thinks the child MUST have something.

Once her oldest was having a growing pain and suffering from leg pain in the mornings after getting up.....DCM did her internet research and decided her kid had a terminal bone disease. She posted all over FB about her poor little thing (took pictures of child standing next to a wheel chair) and said "I hope this isn't where my little one is headed"

She THRIVED off the attention. She wasn't one of those Münchausen type moms but she sure gave them a run for their money.

Even now, a slight cold and the kids are in the ER.... never for the health benefit but always for the attention. I really think she thinks it makes her look like the world's best mom to be so on top of it all the time.

I just had to laugh at this because I can imagine how ridiculous it is for you to listen to all of that/experience it in some way since you provide care! I know I would be all over the place.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by taylorw1210

I just had to laugh at this because I can imagine how ridiculous it is for you to listen to all of that/experience it in some way since you provide care! I know I would be all over the place.

Oh trust me....I've done so many 's over the years my brain has permanent dizzy spells.

[mountainside13]

Originally Posted by TwinKristi

This is honestly why I would consider reporting her. It's the idea that she did something, even accidentally which yes we all have as parents, but she then freaks out and turns into a self-admitted "crazy mom" and rushes him to the ER and blames you resulting in stress, added admin time and perhaps a visit from licensing. She possibly has mental-health issues and perhaps she is a little "too rough" with the boys especially with their rough behavior and admission of her "poking" too hard in the chest. I don't poke my kids. And if one had a potential heart issue (again... Why wasn't this mentioned before) why would mom be poking him so hard in the chest to leave a mark like that?? None of it adds up to me which is part of where my recommendation came from.
My old provider WAS abusing and neglecting her children along with mine. She was a picture perfect SAHM with a beautifully decorated home, cute kids, a daycare, etc but she was a raging alcoholic (and I heard later she was using drugs too but I don't know about that for sure) and leaving her children and mine to fend for themselves when she was drunk and passed out or puking. There were times they didn't eat lunch or just snacked on what they could find. It's disturbing. No one would have suspected abuse. You never know.

That's so upsetting!!! Those poor kids! There was a provider here in Iowa, 25-30 years ago. She put them in cardboard boxes with crayons and left them in there all day. My mom now works with one of those children. She just had a little girl and won't put her in daycare because what she experienced. I don't blame her!

[TwinKristi]

Originally Posted by mountainside13

That's so upsetting!!! Those poor kids! There was a provider here in Iowa, 25-30 years ago. She put them in cardboard boxes with crayons and left them in there all day. My mom now works with one of those children. She just had a little girl and won't put her in daycare because what she experienced. I don't blame her!

She's exactly why I started doing daycare! My friends all knew what happened and were worried, and when I had my next baby I just couldn't put him with someone else after what happened. I really trusted her and she was our provider for 7yrs at that point and watched all 4 of my kids. I really thought I knew this person, we even went on family trips together! Looking back I was young and naïve, too trusting and looked at her as more than a provider but a mentor.