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  #1  
Old 10-19-2012, 07:01 AM
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I am a registered user but logged out because I have parents on this site. I have had a child for about a month now. Yesterday, the child brought a toy into my home, which I think was a disguise for some sort of recording device. I run a legal, reputable daycare with a very strong program, and I am an excellent provider. I have nothing to hide, and really wouldn't care if I were taped or video recorded, but the thought that a parent would try to secretly record me bothers me. It tells me that they do not trust me, and I do not want to be in a business relationship under those circumstances. Should I confront the parents or leave it alone?
  #2  
Old 10-19-2012, 07:08 AM
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what makes you think that it's a disguise for a recording device?
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:08 AM
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I would take the recording device and record my immediate termination speech to them onto it and then send it home with them.

But that's just me.

I would be livid!!!!

NOT because I had anything to hide, but because in this business trust and honestly are absolutely vital to have a good working relationship.

Secretly taping me would violate those two things in everyway!

Last edited by Michael; 10-19-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
what makes you think that it's a disguise for a recording device?

Ditto this.

What has led you to assume such a thing?
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:20 AM
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what makes you think that it's a disguise for a recording device?
There was a hard device sewn into the doll, and it was very unusual. The doll wasn't one of those talking dolls that cries or does anything whatsoever. It was very odd. Also, ever since this family started I always get this strange vibe from them, like they don't trust me and analyze everything I say. I commented the other day that the child does well eating carrots, and the next time they came the mom made a comment that she was up all night trying to figure out what I meant by saying that the child does well eating carrots. Its so odd! I didn't want to take this family on but needed the money. Something didn't sit right with me even during the interview. The mom made a point also the other day saying she always quizzes the child on what we do during the day. The child is almost 2. It's just weird. I wish I had recorded a termination notice!!! I should have posted this yesterday!

Last edited by Michael; 10-19-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:29 AM
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I think the doll would accidentally fall in the dishwater.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:42 AM
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I would confront them on it the second they walked through my door this morning.

And, if I felt as uncomfortable with them as you describe, I simply could not work with them and would have to end the relationship immediately.

Good luck.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:50 AM
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Tom Copeland wrote about this very subject: http://www.tomcopelandblog.com/2012/...tapes-you.html
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:53 AM
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I would open up the toy if I could to prove it was a recording device, and if so call the parents out on it. We are in a profession where there has to be trust, and if either of the parties are lacking in it, there is no point in continuing the relationship as little things like this will continue to pop up. I would tell them that you are hurt that they do not trust you, but am appalled that they would try to bring a recording into your private home to record you. That's just crossing the line. I would terminate them on the spot! It's one thing for them to want to come and sit in for a few hours to see what is going on if they have concerns, but to be devious and record you is obsurd!
  #10  
Old 10-19-2012, 07:57 AM
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I would open up the toy if I could to prove it was a recording device, and if so call the parents out on it. We are in a profession where there has to be trust, and if either of the parties are lacking in it, there is no point in continuing the relationship as little things like this will continue to pop up. I would tell them that you are hurt that they do not trust you, but am appalled that they would try to bring a recording into your private home to record you. That's just crossing the line. I would terminate them on the spot! It's one thing for them to want to come and sit in for a few hours to see what is going on if they have concerns, but to be devious and record you is obsurd!
Absolutely agree. If you can prove it, its grounds for immediate termination. If they really don't trust you then there is no reason for their child to be in your care, whether the lack of trust is justified or not. If you keep this family you're likely to experience this kind of thing again, or worse.. false accusations.
  #11  
Old 10-19-2012, 08:14 AM
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I have in my policies that any toy/item brought from home will be considered a donation to my daycare.

Then I would immediately investigate the item and confront the parent at pickup if it was indeed a recording device. Termination would follow, no amount of money is worth the aggravation and lack of trust that an invasion of privacy would bring.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:21 AM
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I absolutely would have opened it up. They may think you are insane if you bring it up and its just a battery pack or something silly like that. Without proof I wouldn't mention it but I would term a family if I felt there was a lack of trust on either end.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:24 AM
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Honestly, I wouldn't do anything unless you know FOR SURE there was a recording device. Lots of toys have those boxes, maybe it wasn't a talking toy but a vibrating toy or something. If there was not a recording device and you accuse them of it you'll come across as paranoid and crazy.

If however you find out that there was a recording device I would terminate. This is a business in your home and it is unfair and a violation of privacy to bring that in without a notice (possibly even illegal in some states.)
  #14  
Old 10-19-2012, 08:55 AM
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If I suspected a recording device, that toy would have been opened up and investigated 10 minutes ago.

If it was a recording device, the termination would have been immediate. As in a phone call to work for the parent to pick up the child NOW. Reason: Lack of trust and non-existent working relationship.

I can't put into words how angry I would be.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:00 AM
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Sounds to me like DCM is fishing for a reason to prove to her DH that she should be at home with her DD...IMO.
I think a lot of DCM's really resent their DP because they want to be at home with their child but finances sometimes doesn't allow for them to do that or DH does not agree that Mom should stay at home.

I did this when I went back to work after my ODD was born.... Not to the point of sending a recording device to the babysitter though! I would just complain about every little thing to my DH (but never to the DP) until one day he finally agreed that it would be better if I was home with DD
I think if she needed to go that far with it, it means she has not been able to find any dirt on you and she is digging REALLY deep.
If DCF makes you uncomfortable and you can afford to, I would term. The thought of being spied on like that would send me over the edge. Imagine the $$ they must have spent on that if it was actually a recording device!
  #16  
Old 10-19-2012, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydaycarelady View Post
Honestly, I wouldn't do anything unless you know FOR SURE there was a recording device. Lots of toys have those boxes, maybe it wasn't a talking toy but a vibrating toy or something. If there was not a recording device and you accuse them of it you'll come across as paranoid and crazy.

If however you find out that there was a recording device I would terminate. This is a business in your home and it is unfair and a violation of privacy to bring that in without a notice (possibly even illegal in some states.)
That's what I"m thinking that maybe the toy vibrates or lights up or something. It woudl seem very strange to have a recording device sewn into something. If it's sewn into a stuffed animal the sound I would think would be all muffled, the stuffed animal would have to be right next to someone to be voice activated etc. Plus if it's sewn in they are going to have to rip it open to get it out. I'm guessing it's not a recorder. Not to mention that trust goes both ways. People say that if they don't trust you then you should terminate them. What if you don't trust them? Shoudl they terminate you? Open it up if you think it's something suspicious, but my guess is it's harmless.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:22 AM
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I agree not to push the issue unless you have undeniable truth.

But if you do .... think about the fact that all of the other children in your care could have been recorded or filmed by a stranger (to them and their family). My dc parents would NOT be okay with that. And I would not be okay with the fact that my own kids could have been recorded. And if the toy were accidentally left overnight, my husband's and my conversations (etc.) could have been recorded too .

I personally would be very proactive to find out if it actually is a recording device. I would then photograph it and keep the device itself. I would term immediately and press charges, if at all possible.

Good luck! I hope it's JUST a toy!
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:29 AM
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I would do everything I could to figure out if this was indeed a recording device. It is illegal and unethical for someone to do this. It violates your privacy and the privacy of every child in your care. I would not only terminate, but I would threaten them with legal actions.
  #19  
Old 10-19-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMom View Post
If I suspected a recording device, that toy would have been opened up and investigated 10 minutes ago.

If it was a recording device, the termination would have been immediate. As in a phone call to work for the parent to pick up the child NOW. Reason: Lack of trust and non-existent working relationship.

I can't put into words how angry I would be.
Totally agree.
  #20  
Old 10-19-2012, 09:59 AM
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"sewn in"....hmmm.....if the toy was supposed to vibrate, light up or make noise, there would be like a velcro or zippered opening for a parent to change the batteries, right? In the absence of such a manufacturers opening, and you could see where it was in fact stiched closed, I would be VERY suspicious!
"hey mom, little Suzie really enjoyed snuggling that toy you brought in, can she leave it here for a nap time snuggle? " if mom says no...."why? How come?" If she says yes, and brings it back, take the stiches out, find out whats in there. If it's a battery pack, sew it back up. If it's a recording devise----TERM.
  #21  
Old 10-19-2012, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
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"sewn in"....hmmm.....if the toy was supposed to vibrate, light up or make noise, there would be like a velcro or zippered opening for a parent to change the batteries, right? In the absence of such a manufacturers opening, and you could see where it was in fact stiched closed, I would be VERY suspicious!
"hey mom, little Suzie really enjoyed snuggling that toy you brought in, can she leave it here for a nap time snuggle? " if mom says no...."why? How come?" If she says yes, and brings it back, take the stiches out, find out whats in there. If it's a battery pack, sew it back up. If it's a recording devise----TERM.
The only thing I can come up with as to why it's sewn in if it's a battery pack or something is if the toy no longer works and it was a way for the child to take the battery pack out? I don't know. One simple way to find out is to open the dang thing up and see what it is. Can't wait to hear.
  #22  
Old 10-19-2012, 10:05 AM
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The only thing I can come up with as to why it's sewn in if it's a battery pack or something is if the toy no longer works and it was a way for the child to take the battery pack out? I don't know. One simple way to find out is to open the dang thing up and see what it is. Can't wait to hear.
This is what aroused my suspicion. I undressed the doll and looked for a place for batteries to go, or a switch, etc. Nothing.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:08 AM
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I would not be able to continue caring for a child if the parents did not trust me. If it comes back again, I would definitely check and see if there truly was a recording device in it! I have no issues with a parent observing the care their child is getting, but to secretly do it, is not okay!

If I got a bad vibe or felt like they were scrutinizing everything I said, I would open up a dialogue with this parent and ask them if they had any concerns they wanted to discuss. Sometimes parents have a hard time leaving their child and need to be reassured that you are there to give the best care to their child while they are at work. I can be a little sensitive at times and sometimes read into things, so having this discussion is helpful to both parties. It may be this mom would never be happy and is very apprehensive leaving her child with anyone and would be best staying home to watch her herself.

Good Luck!
  #24  
Old 10-19-2012, 10:16 AM
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Did it have an opening to access it for batteries? I'm assuming not because you were very put off by discovering it. That is very odd behavior and I would terminate them. But, I have to say I would be tempted to get that doll back and investigate it before.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:35 AM
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Check online for photos of recording dolls to see if you see one the same.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:47 AM
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I would open it as well! Not only does it create resentment and distrust on your part but it is a huge violation of the privacy of both you and the other DCKs. What if DCG carried the "toy" into diaper area? DCPs get a video of all kids getting stripped down and diapered? That is so not acceptable.

Plus in some states it is illegal to video someone without their knowledge.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:47 AM
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Check online for photos of recording dolls to see if you see one the same.
Great idea!
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:59 AM
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{Voyeurism is the sexual interest in or practice of spying on people engaged in intimate behaviors, such as undressing, sexual activity, or other actions usually considered to be of a private nature.}

What if this child had taken this doll with her to the bathroom and left it behind when she left?? And you came in and used the bathroom or changed your clothes or (God forbid) another child came in and used the bathroom or undressed?

Voyeurism is ILLEGAL.

Just my two sense! I was a victim of voyeurism while caring for a quadraplegic is his home. He used a "weather radio/alarm clock" which was next to the bed I slept in while doing night shifts. I did not prosecute because he would end up in a nursing home. But I did file a law suit on him! Sad story.....
  #29  
Old 10-19-2012, 11:44 AM
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I would open it. If I found a recording device, I would request both parents pick up and the police would be waiting to question them. It is illegal.

I would press charges and encourage my dc parents to do the very same. It is a violation of my privacy in my home and workplace and a violation of the other children's privacy.
  #30  
Old 10-19-2012, 11:50 AM
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sorry, I think you are reading into this way too much.....

I have to ask and flame me if you want...but are you doing something that makes you think that the family would want to record you?
  #31  
Old 10-19-2012, 12:05 PM
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sorry, I think you are reading into this way too much.....

I have to ask and flame me if you want...but are you doing something that makes you think that the family would want to record you?
I disagree....people are weird. They can do incredibly stupid things, like send in a hidden recording device with their children. I may be jaded, but this doesn't surprise me. Think of nanny cams and how popular they are. The problem is that this is in the provider's home and most likely illegal and just plain rude.

I would seriously research this little device.
  #32  
Old 10-19-2012, 12:06 PM
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If I distrusted my child's provider enough to feel like I needed to send in a recording device I would have already pulled my child from care - I wouldn't wait to collect evidence that my fears were founded. As a parent, I would be very upset to find out my child was being recorded by another daycare family. Many of you expressed legitimate concerns about bathroom privacy and the recording of after hours conversations and I can completely understand why you all would be offended and very angry about being distrusted and secretly recorded.

But at the same time I think when you accept other people's children into your home and turn it temporarily into a place of business you are forfeiting some of the privacy rights of being in your private home. I can understand a parent feeling that they have the right to know exactly what's being done/said to/with their child 100% of the time that they're in your care. Many centers in my area offer webcam access to parents and have an open door policy for exactly this reason. Scheduling a time to observe or record would be useless - no sane provider would treat children badly when they know parents are watching.
  #33  
Old 10-19-2012, 12:31 PM
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I have at least a handful of toys/dolls with sewn in noise makers of some kind.

My "Walter the Farting Dog" (a stuffed dog that farts when you squeeze it - came along with a book set my kids got) is one that immediately leaps to mind.

The bird toy on my Skip Hop tummy time mat will sing when it's squeezed and there is zero battery entrance/opening on it.

I've got loads of dolls that do or used to giggle, burp or cry when you squeeze their bellies with zero battery entrance/opening on them.


It's really not that usual at all.



Before anyone springs to accusations that this doll must be some sort of attempt at sexual perversion or some paranoid distrust in the provider, perhaps the question should be asked why on earth a provider would ever keep a family around they thought would ever pull such a stunt? I could never in a million years see any of my families trying to "spy" on me for any reason. There's no way my brain could ever even go there. If it did, even for a split second, I'd be terminating effective immediately.


Trust needs to go both ways. If a parent doesn't trust a provider they shouldn't bring their child anymore. If a provider doesn't trust a family they shouldn't be offering care anymore.


If I seriously thought something was amiss with a toy I'd simply ask. If I felt I couldn't I'd terminate over that as well.



ETA -
http://www.amazon.com/Walter-Farting.../dp/B000MWB730 - a review right on the page - The face is very true to the books... really cute and goofy. The plush is nice, with a good feel. The toy is a bit small and the fart box does make it a bit lumpy... but hey, this toy is about FARTING, not cuddling. I am not sure if the fart box is electronic or all mechanical... if it is electronic and the batteries ever wear out I'll probably do a fartbox-ectomy and add stuffing and resew him - he's that cute.
http://www.buybuybaby.com/product.as...13452&RN=7088& - the bird on the right
  #34  
Old 10-19-2012, 12:54 PM
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This is a new family so I don't know them well enough to know what kind of people they are. To answer your question Daycare- of course I am not doing anything wrong at all. This particular child comes from an only mom before care situation, and I am their first provider. I may be wrong in the assumption that there is a recording device, but I always feel very uncomfortable around this family for some reason, and I don't like the feeling I get at drop off or pick up. I don't know why, perhaps it is the way the mom looks at me or quizzes me. I have never had this issue or these feelings before. The whole situation is fishy to me, and then this mysterious non vibrating, no battery paneled doll comes into my home. The child that comes is a bit odd, always scowling and standing watching the other kids, despite all of my efforts to engage them in play. I attributed it to the child being new, but it is still going on. I would love to be rid of this family if for no other reason than they make me uncomfortable, but I need the money right now.
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:57 PM
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My children have several Build-A-Bear stuffed animals that have devices in them that used to record but don't any longer. There is no way to access them. They are devices we bought at Build-a-Bear and recoded "I love you" or something like that, some came with pre-recorded sayings, they were sewn in when they sewed the stuffed animal up and since the batteries died I haven't had the time to pull the stitches, change the batteries and re-sew them. Could this be a Build-A-Bear? (they have all sorts of characters)
If it was a doll, I've seen some where you squeeze the hard tummy where the device is located and it makes crying sounds and they also had no access to change batteries.
I do agree that you should look up recording devices though. My curiosity would have been to great and I would have opened the darn thing if I were suspicious. If I would have found it to be a recording device I would have done as Blackcat said and recorded my termination speech and then I would have put the doll back together so they were none the wiser.
If you checked the doll thoroughly and didn't find a spot for a USB hookup I would say it's probably not a recording device as they have to have some way to get the information off of the device and for items that are pricey like this manufacturers are not going to require tearing open the doll.
http://www.spycameraadvice.com/category/toys/

http://www.squidoo.com/stuffed-baby-...-hidden-camera
  #36  
Old 10-19-2012, 01:06 PM
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It is probably against the law in your state to record without permission. If you were to open it up and there was a recorder who's to say the parent claims there was never one in there if you call the police. It's a she said, she said situation.

I would do as one of the others here stated and put the doll in the washing machine with the other cloths.

If you suspect that a parent is not trusting you, you should terminate. No guessing allowed.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
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This is a new family so I don't know them well enough to know what kind of people they are. To answer your question Daycare- of course I am not doing anything wrong at all. This particular child comes from an only mom before care situation, and I am their first provider. I may be wrong in the assumption that there is a recording device, but I always feel very uncomfortable around this family for some reason, and I don't like the feeling I get at drop off or pick up. I don't know why, perhaps it is the way the mom looks at me or quizzes me. I have never had this issue or these feelings before. The whole situation is fishy to me, and then this mysterious non vibrating, no battery paneled doll comes into my home. The child that comes is a bit odd, always scowling and standing watching the other kids, despite all of my efforts to engage them in play. I attributed it to the child being new, but it is still going on. I would love to be rid of this family if for no other reason than they make me uncomfortable, but I need the money right now.
thanks for not getting offended by my question...my mother always told me that guilty minds eat at you to believe crazy things....lol

So where is the doll put when the child arrives? I mean wouldn't it have to be out and in the same room with everyone at all times if it were a camera in order to video anything???

When my DCK come here, their stuffies go straight into their cubby boxes, so if there were anything in it. It would be recording the cubby box all day until nap time then it would more than likely be recording my floor ceiling or under the blanket.

You said they make you uncomfortable, then maybe this is why you think this. I would not be able to do business with someone that made me feel the way that this family is making you feel. Have you tried to talk with them about this?
  #38  
Old 10-19-2012, 01:23 PM
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I would love to be rid of this family if for no other reason than they make me uncomfortable, but I need the money right now.
I could never understand why providers feel this way. To me, if I felt that uncomfortable about a family, I would term, whether I needed the money or not.

No matter how much I needed the money, imo, if I am made uncomfortable by a parent/family, it causes stress, tension and all sorts of uneasy feelings. That makes for a very long and stressful day, and possibly even impact how I care for the children throughout the day. I don't want to be made to feel that way in the privacy of my own home. I would much rather term, have less money, but feel comfortable and less stressed while looking for another family to enroll.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:26 PM
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This thread has me all paranoid now! LOL! I have an overwhelming desire to go pat down all of my kids and inspect all of their lovies! LOL!
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:35 PM
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I just spent half of nap looking at these websites. I found several I want in my work area. How cute, how normal looking.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:47 PM
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I also wanted to add, if the parents did do this, and you have nothing to hide, then no need to worry about that. I would just be worrying about how to prove it so that you can bust them for it.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:21 PM
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I'm not worrying, I am just majorly uncomfortable. If there was a recording device then they would probably never bring it back anyway because i'm great at my job and have nothing to hide. The doll was carried around by the girl all day, and when I put it with her stuff she whined and cried for it. I do not like the idea of someone violating my or any of my other kids privacy, and the family is just odd in general. Call me paranoid, but I do not put anything past anyone these days unfortunately.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:34 PM
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I'm not worrying, I am just majorly uncomfortable. If there was a recording device then they would probably never bring it back anyway because i'm great at my job and have nothing to hide. The doll was carried around by the girl all day, and when I put it with her stuff she whined and cried for it. I do not like the idea of someone violating my or any of my other kids privacy, and the family is just odd in general. Call me paranoid, but I do not put anything past anyone these days unfortunately.
I do agree with that. I dont trust people as far as I can throw them and thats not far.

If you really are that uncomfortable, then I would let this family go....
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:06 PM
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This thread makes me really want cameras in MY home just in case I am ever accused of something. Parents do so many unpredictable things these days.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:25 PM
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throw it in the wash, the tub, wherever
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:39 AM
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easy fix, don't allow toys in your house.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:40 AM
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easy fix, don't allow toys in your house.
I don't. It causes too many fights and problems.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:11 PM
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I agree throw it in the washing machine! I throw laundry in all day just tell them she spilled some juice on it and wash it!
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:32 AM
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My kids have a bear and a monkey both from build a bear that you record a message on it and then put inside the toy. You do this when you want to gift it to someone special. My mom gave one to each of my kids with a recording of her voice telling them how special they are to her. The little box gets sewn inside the toy and to activate it (get it to talk) you have to squeeze the box.

There isn't a switch or a button per say, just a large panel on the entire side of the box that when pushed in activates the message. Even hugging the toy would get it to talk. Eventually the batteries have worn out and now theres no way of replacing the batteries (short of surgery) or taking the darn toys back to the store and having them serviced ... if they even do that at all. Anyway, the batteries lasted about 3 months before going out and frankly I simply don't have the desire of hearing my mothers voice at all hours of the day so I never had the desire to investigate how to replace the batteries. We also have a small Doug doll (the dog from the movie Up) that used to bark and a small hamster from the movie Bolt that used to say stuff and the batteries have also worn out.

That being said, we now have a few stuffed toys with strange little boxes inside that now do absolutely nothing. The kids have kept the toys of course because theyre special to them but I could see how someone else might think that the boxes are strange. Hallmark also sells items like stuffed toys and books that you can hide a recorded message in for a loved one ... I think you order them. Costco also sells some, or at least did, in a kit where you record your message into the box, send it in and they stuff a doll in the likeness of someone. These are all the same, no way to replace batteries unless you pull the toy apart.

So maybe it is a little odd that there is a strange box inside a toy but think about it this way ... if it's a recording device of some sort there must be a way for someone to upload the info from the box. Without an opening how do they do that? Spy gear is now typically digital and paired with computers so there should be a place for a cable to plug into so that the recordings can be uploaded to some sort of program. I just don't see how having a recording device sewn into a toy would be smart in my opinion if I were trying to record someone because I would have to unsew the toy each time I wanted to get the box out to be able to upload the recordings. Just my two cents.

PS: If it turns out that this is a recording device of some sort for audio you should know that according to federal law, only law enforcement may record audio in a covert manner.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:39 AM
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Have you considered just asking the parents? I would ask before I would destroy someone else's property.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:03 AM
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this whole thing about recording devices creeps me out, I wouldn't be worried about our daycare activities because I know we are awesome but sometimes at nap time, I make phone calls and order stuff using my credit card number or bank info and call Dr. offices regarding private medical matters with my dd.
Sometimes I call my friend and sort of vent about my day.
Recording private phone calls is illegal and definitely an invasion of privacy.

I don't think she is recording you but you don't need this stress being 8 months pregnant. It is not good for you or the baby
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHearts View Post
I could never understand why providers feel this way. To me, if I felt that uncomfortable about a family, I would term, whether I needed the money or not.

No matter how much I needed the money, imo, if I am made uncomfortable by a parent/family, it causes stress, tension and all sorts of uneasy feelings. That makes for a very long and stressful day, and possibly even impact how I care for the children throughout the day. I don't want to be made to feel that way in the privacy of my own home. I would much rather term, have less money, but feel comfortable and less stressed while looking for another family to enroll.
while I agree with you, its not always that cut or dry. we have been at points in our life where it is literally pay check to pay check. losing one child would mean either our house foreclosed on or our car repossesed. i hate for anyone to be that close with finances because I know how that feels....to keep kids that arent meshing well because you cannot find a replacement and literally, will be homeless if you cannot bring in income. please dont be too hard on the OP or others that have a hard time with these decisions. Maybe you have never been in that unfortunate scenario but other people are/have.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:20 AM
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I'm not sure why everyone assumes recording someone else is illegal?



Laws vary from state to state but in many (most?) it's completely legal. As long as one party is aware of what's going on (in this case that being the parent) then they're definitely within their rights to record and use whatever information they collect.

The only time it's NOT legal is when at least one party isn't aware of what's going on.

So I couldn't send a recording bear deal into the OP's daycare to record what's going on between the provider and the child's family. Nor could the government, or anyone else. There has to be some vested interest in one of the parties themselves for it to be legal.

And you don't have to be law enforcement to have a vested interest. I learned all this when my lawyer advised me to record what was said in the phone calls between my ex and I. Everything he said was admissible in court despite him not having a clue I did it.
  #54  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:20 AM
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while I agree with you, its not always that cut or dry. we have been at points in our life where it is literally pay check to pay check. losing one child would mean either our house foreclosed on or our car repossesed. i hate for anyone to be that close with finances because I know how that feels....to keep kids that arent meshing well because you cannot find a replacement and literally, will be homeless if you cannot bring in income. please dont be too hard on the OP or others that have a hard time with these decisions. Maybe you have never been in that unfortunate scenario but other people are/have.
I agree with you about the need of money...I myself have had to take jobs that I hated so that I could put food on the table for my kids. When I was a single mom, I was the janitor of my kids preschool, so that I could get a discount. Do you really think that I enjoyed cleaning up after 150 preschool kids 5 days a week???? Horrific.

there are times we all need to do things to make ends meet. When I was in college, I had to bartend to pay for my schooling, a very demeaning job where I was sexually harassed each day by fellow employees or customers. But If I didn't have the job, then I would have been living on the streets..... All that I am saying, is that there are times that we need to stick things out. My dad had a saying to me as a child "When things are difficult, strong people take action and do not despair".......

For those that can say term, obviously are not thinking about the providers financial situation here. I am sure that if the provider could afford to term she would.

Just wondering OP have you talked to the family about any of this? Perhaps having a nice talk with them will put an end to all of these uncomfortable feelings you have.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:25 AM
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I'm not sure why everyone assumes recording someone else is illegal?



Laws vary from state to state but in many (most?) it's completely legal. As long as one party is aware of what's going on (in this case that being the parent) then they're definitely within their rights to record and use whatever information they collect.

The only time it's NOT legal is when at least one party isn't aware of what's going on.

So I couldn't send a recording bear deal into the OP's daycare to record what's going on between the provider and the child's family. Nor could the government, or anyone else. There has to be some vested interest in one of the parties themselves for it to be legal.

And you don't have to be law enforcement to have a vested interest. I learned all this when my lawyer advised me to record what was said in the phone calls between my ex and I. Everything he said was admissible in court despite him not having a clue I did it.
OK Willow, I'm totally confused by part of your post but not sure how to quote it.

You say "The only time its NOT legal is when at least one party is not aware of what's going on"

I totally do not understand that. How would one party not know as one of the parties would be doing the recording? Someone has to be doing the recording so at least one part would be aware.

Also, I have parents that absolutely do not want their childs pictures taken so I can imagine I would somehow be in hot water if another whole parent was recording my childcare.
  #56  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:31 AM
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Someone mentionned putting cameras in their own homes in all daycare areas to protect themselves. That is really a good idea. That way if ever a child falsely accuses you of doing something, you have the video to prove otherwise.
Would also be helpful in a situation where DCK sceams his or her head off when they are dropped off and rushes to the door when DCP arrives. You could show some of the video from the week to DCM so she could see that he is really happy and plays well when he is in care....


Something to think about anyway.

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Old 10-25-2012, 09:34 AM
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OK Willow, I'm totally confused by part of your post but not sure how to quote it.

You say "The only time its NOT legal is when at least one party is not aware of what's going on"

I totally do not understand that. How would one party not know as one of the parties would be doing the recording? Someone has to be doing the recording so at least one part would be aware.

Also, I have parents that absolutely do not want their childs pictures taken so I can imagine I would somehow be in hot water if another whole parent was recording my childcare.

It all boils down to vested interest. A person wanting to capture something that happens between them and another party.

I can record a conversation between you and I.....but not between you and daycare. If Blackcat chimes in in the background it wouldn't somehow all of a sudden make what I was doing illegal. If my intent was purely to spy on conversations between you and daycare, or you and Blackcat....that would be different.


I am not sure how things would play out with the information gathered between the provider and other children.....perhaps information like that wouldn't be admissible? All I know is if that's what these parents are doing it is likely completely legal (again depending on individual state laws, on a federal level there's nothing wrong with it).

I don't see how you would be in any hot water if someone else was recording you, you didn't know about it, and a third party wasn't happy about it once you found out. There's nothing you or they could do about it.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Soccermom View Post
Someone mentionned putting cameras in their own homes in all daycare areas to protect themselves. That is really a good idea. That way if ever a child falsely accuses you of doing something, you have the video to prove otherwise.
This is really no different than what the parents here are being accused of doing.

Unless you (general you) are going to notify all daycare parents, daycare licensors, inspectors, food program reps, family and friends, appliance repair people, your kids friends, their parents, etc. etc. etc. about the cameras and what you're doing with them.


Just like you'd be well within your rights so would these parents, if indeed that's even what they're doing.

Could very well just be that they're overly invested with poor boundaries, I've had looooads of parents like that. I actually prefer those to ones who are grossly under invested.

Although you wouldn't ever catch me singing in front of either party
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
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It all boils down to vested interest. A person wanting to capture something that happens between them and another party.

I can record a conversation between you and I.....but not between you and daycare. If Blackcat chimes in in the background it wouldn't somehow all of a sudden make what I was doing illegal. If my intent was purely to spy on conversations between you and daycare, or you and Blackcat....that would be different.


I am not sure how things would play out with the information gathered between the provider and other children.....perhaps information like that wouldn't be admissible? All I know is if that's what these parents are doing it is likely completely legal (again depending on individual state laws, on a federal level there's nothing wrong with it).

I don't see how you would be in any hot water if someone else was recording you and a third party wasn't happy about it. There's nothing you or they could do about it.
They wouldn't be recording just me, they would be recording the childcare.

I guess it would be like a child that has a cell phone that takes pictures. I have parents that absolutely don't want their child photographed. If a child is taking pictures with their cell phone and I don't know it (they can be sneaky) and then somehow those pictures get in a facebook or whatever and the parents find out that it was taken at childcare-that could cost me a client.

Same with a parent recording the childcare without permission (we have to have permission forms for photo/videos). There is no agreement for that so I could again lose a client because of something that was done with out their permission.
  #60  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:47 AM
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http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...-conversations

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Old 10-25-2012, 09:50 AM
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They wouldn't be recording just me, they would be recording the childcare.

I guess it would be like a child that has a cell phone that takes pictures. I have parents that absolutely don't want their child photographed. If a child is taking pictures with their cell phone and I don't know it (they can be sneaky) and then somehow those pictures get in a facebook or whatever and the parents find out that it was taken at childcare-that could cost me a client.

Same with a parent recording the childcare without permission (we have to have permission forms for photo/videos). There is no agreement for that so I could again lose a client because of something that was done with out their permission.

Your personal policies or a parents personal preferences won't trump what is law.

No matter how reasonable or logical they may be.


You may lose business if something goes wonky, but that doesn't negate a civil liberty.

Kind of like my house and business "laws" state that if you smack your kid in my home at drop off or pick up you're out, but it's not against actual law for a parent to spank a kid. The most we'd have the power to do is terminate our existing contracts. I couldn't like, take a parent to court and charge them myself with abuse.

Same would go for if a third party did something you were unaware of, like unknowingly photograph the kid of a parent who doesn't want that. They can't go after your for beans. Or the third party. Only people who know and consent not to photograph their children can be held responsible if they do so themselves.

(Please don't shoot the messenger!)
  #62  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:57 AM
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Except as otherwise provided in ORS 133.724 (Order for interception of communications) or 133.726 (Interception of oral communication without order) or subsections (2) to (7) of this section, a person may not:

(c) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a conversation by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, if not all participants in the conversation are specifically informed that their conversation is being obtained

This is what I found for my state
  #63  
Old 10-25-2012, 10:02 AM
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Except as otherwise provided in ORS 133.724 (Order for interception of communications) or 133.726 (Interception of oral communication without order) or subsections (2) to (7) of this section, a person may not:

(c) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a conversation by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, if not all participants in the conversation are specifically informed that their conversation is being obtained

This is what I found for my state

Your state then is one of the (*only*) 12 that are required to have all parties consents.


OP's state may very well not be a part of those 12. Odds are, it's not.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:09 AM
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Your state then is one of the (*only*) 12 that are required to have all parties consents.


OP's state may very well not be a part of those 12. Odds are, it's not.
Well, I guess I know that in my state this would be totally illegal and wouldn't be a wise choice for a parent to do.

So I guess nanny cams would be totally against the law here.

That totally explains why there are "You are being recorded" signs in so many business here. You've been warned so you can't say you didn't know.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:17 AM
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Well, I guess I know that in my state this would be totally illegal and wouldn't be a wise choice for a parent to do.

So I guess nanny cams would be totally against the law here.

That totally explains why there are "You are being recorded" signs in so many business here. You've been warned so you can't say you didn't know.

I wonder if a provider in one of those states wanted to put up cameras if they'd simply have to display a similar sign and that would keep them legal?
  #66  
Old 10-25-2012, 10:22 AM
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Tom Copeland wrote a blog entry about parents recoding the daycare provider

http://www.tomcopelandblog.com/2012/...tapes-you.html
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:25 AM
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Well from what I've gathered in most staes cameras without audio are ok to be placed anywhere that privacy isn't expected ... someone elses home doesn't fit that description but you as a provider can install cameras in your own home for daycare as long as there is no audio without asking for consent and of course not in the bathroom. Also the camera must be obviously visible for it to be legal meaning no hidden cameras.

Audio apparently is different whether it's only audio or video with audio and you need consent. Any Nanny Cam which also records sound must be compliant with the Federal & State Laws. It the following states, you must gain the consent of ALL those being recorded: Washington, Montana, Florida, Nevada, California, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Illinois, Hawaii, Oregon, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Delaware and Louisiana.

So if it were a recording device then it would fall mainly on what state you live in to find out whether or not this is legal.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:36 AM
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Audio apparently is different whether it's only audio or video with audio and you need consent. Any Nanny Cam which also records sound must be compliant with the Federal & State Laws. It the following states, you must gain the consent of ALL those being recorded: Washington, Montana, Florida, Nevada, California, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Illinois, Hawaii, Oregon, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Delaware and Louisiana.
Can you tell me where you found that, I'm bored and curious lol

The only states I found to have two party consent laws were:
California
Connecticut
Florida
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania &
Washington

(Hawaii is also in general a one-party state, but requires two-party consent if the recording device is installed in a private place)


I never found anything about Oregon, Louisiana or Delaware being included in that two/all party list.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:42 AM
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while I agree with you, its not always that cut or dry. we have been at points in our life where it is literally pay check to pay check. losing one child would mean either our house foreclosed on or our car repossesed. i hate for anyone to be that close with finances because I know how that feels....to keep kids that arent meshing well because you cannot find a replacement and literally, will be homeless if you cannot bring in income. please dont be too hard on the OP or others that have a hard time with these decisions. Maybe you have never been in that unfortunate scenario but other people are/have.

Oh no, I certainly didn't mean for my post to come across as if I was being too hard on the OP, I do apologize to the OP and anyone else who read it as such.

I have been in the same position, living paycheck to paycheck, so I certainly understand the OP's situation. I guess I was just trying to say if I was really worried that someone was secretly video taping me and my daycare, choosing between keeping them and always stressing if I'm being recorded, (which frankly freaks me out, even though I have nothing to worry about), I personally would term. Dealing with a behavioral problem, whether it was the parents or the child, to me, would be much easier to keep, but feeling like I was being recorded, I personally couldn't handle the thought of that.

Again, I am so sorry if I came across the wrong way. I do sympathize with the OP.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
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Can you tell me where you found that, I'm bored and curious lol

The only states I found to have two party consent laws were:
California
Connecticut
Florida
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania &
Washington

(Hawaii is also in general a one-party state, but requires two-party consent if the recording device is installed in a private place)


I never found anything about Oregon, Louisiana or Delaware being included in that two/all party list.
I found two websites that mentioned these states and here's one
http://www.ugolog.com/pages/are-nanny-cams-legal
The other one I'm having trouble finding.

Keep in mind that the states that I listed aren't for video ... just for audio whether it's audio in video form or just audio. In some of the states you can still have video recordings without consent, it just can't have audio to go with it.
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  #71  
Old 10-25-2012, 11:37 AM
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Here's another website that mentions two party consent on audio from a security camera company:

They list these states:
States with "Two party Consent" for audio recording

California - Two Party
Connecticut - Two Party
Delaware - Two Party
Florida - Two Party
Hawaii - Two Party
Illinois - Two Party
Kansas - Two Party
Maryland - Two Party
Massachusetts - Two Party
Michigan - Two Party
Montana - Two Party
Nevada - Two Party
New Hampshire - Two Party
Pennsylvania - Two Party
Utah - Two Party
Washington - Two Party

And I did find this from an Attorney's Website:

"A general rule is that if the people engaged in the conversation can reasonably expect their conversation to remain private, then the statute protects that conversation....in one case, bugging a private house with a hidden microphone violated state law because the residents inside reasonably expected their conversations to remain private.

Twelve states require, under most circumstances, the consent of all parties to a conversation. Those jurisdictions are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington."

So as you can see there is some difference in the information.

Here is another little something that I found interesting about one-party audio recording laws from another legal website:

"Federal law permits recording telephone calls and in-person conversations with the consent of at least one of the parties. See 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d). This is called a "one-party consent" law. Under a one-party consent law, you can record a phone call or conversation so long as you are a party to the conversation. ... Regardless of whether state or federal law governs the situation, it is almost always illegal to record a phone call or private conversation to which you are not a party, do not have consent from at least one party, and could not naturally overhear. In addition, federal and many state laws do not permit you to surreptitiously place a bug or recording device on a person or telephone, in a home, office or restaurant to secretly record a conversation between two people who have not consented."
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  #72  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:00 PM
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easy fix, don't allow toys in your house.
I do not allow outside toys in my day home except for Thursdays when they bring something for show and share. It goes in their cubbies until show and share time though so they don't play with it during the day.

Myself, I would term this particular family. Not so much due to the suspicion of the recording device, but because of the daily uneasy feeling you have.

I have always termed if I felt I needed to even if I needed the money.
  #73  
Old 10-26-2012, 03:17 AM
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I also never understand parents who would continue to send a child to a centre that gave them bad vibes. If it would have to go to the point of recording my child wouldn't be there anymore.

EDIT to add- not accusing the OP just making a statement of fact.
  #74  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:17 AM
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Wink something elese to think about i read most replies on this but.....

1. i would terminate money isn't everything although it sure does help but no way to work daily

2. I would also take the high road with that said yes although we have nothing to hide but we do have an obligation to protect the other children and any mental, emotional or health conditions they may have. and I would explain this information is not legally something that should be made available to others without prior written consent from their parents b/c it violates hippa laws and with that said there is no long a trust here and I will have to let you go to protect the interest other the other children!!!!!!

3.We don't do this business so others can no our other families triumph and tragedies or even their personal goals or home/family information that could be given out over a phone call or conversation at the door that could have been taking place while this device was on. Parents come to our home and confined in us. what if one did this and this device was taken home and listen to and that parent with that device slips and says something to the other parent we should have only known ,,,now this other parent has lost trust in you this as we know can be very important in our business and possibly intervening and keep someone safe or out of harms way when we should if necessary
  #75  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:45 AM
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There are a handful of states that legally require that all parties be privy to the audio recording, but it is less than around 10 I think. Most states are a "one-party" state, meaning only one party has to be aware of the recording. Now this could go either way, you could say well the parent isn't a party to the conversation so therefore they can not be recording. But it could also be argued that the child is a minor therefore the parent can give the consent on behalf of the child, and since the child is a part of the recording it is OK.

I see the point about the other parents being upset because their child is being recorded without their consent.

As a parent I will do anything to insure that my child is being taken care of. It is so easy for a provider to show good face to the parent and as soon as the parent leaves turn into a mean person. I mean how is a six month old supposed to tell you that their daycare provider is abusing or neglecting them? They can't. All I'm saying is if a retailer can send in secret shoppers to retail stores, or hidden TV camera crews take an "inside look" at places like tanning salons. Why the heck can't we do the same to the people that are taking care of the most important persons in our lives. Especially such vulnerable individuals.

I understand why you would be offended and I think it is great that you have nothing to hide. I guess I just understand parents that would choose to do something like this, just to make sure their child is being well taken care of.
  #76  
Old 10-16-2013, 09:46 PM
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Hello. I thought I would give a quick perspective. Our daughter had been acting strangely and changing behavior. I bought a small recorder because according to our daycare provider everything was great. I wanted to trust that but with no explanation for the change, I had to be sure. If there's nothing to hide, then all is great. However, in our case it wasn't and I'm glad we did it. My two daughters don't deserve the provider they got. If the parents come off as weird or unstable, you should question watching their children. But for those of us that need to verify our instinct, it's not meant as an insult. You're with our children longer than we are and we need to know they are safe and loved.

Kind regards,
Amy

Last edited by Michael; 10-17-2013 at 12:07 AM.
  #77  
Old 10-16-2013, 10:13 PM
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If the child comes back with the same doll, follow these steps:

1. Act completely normal to the parents, don't be weird or let on. Just say, oh I'm so glad you brought that doll back, its so cute! Where did you get this? Maybe I should get one for the daycare. Find out the name of the doll, etc.

2. When the parent leaves, look up the doll on the internet to see if what you feel is normal. Also, look up nanny cam dolls. Yes, they make them!

3. If it is not normal or they don't tell you where they got it, etc. and you are still suspicious, STICK IT IN THE FREEZER!!! First, cover the eyes with something like a thick blanket, but make it look like a kid is doing it.(it may have a camera in the eyes, this is common)Wrap it in a paper towel so you don't get anything from the freezer on it. Leave it there til nap time.

4. At naptime, take the doll out of the freezer and see if you can take the thing apart.

I totally get that parents are concerned, as they should be, there are a lot of crazy people watching their kids, but if they want cameras, they should have found a provider who has cameras running and gives parents access to them. Good luck finding that!
  #78  
Old 10-17-2013, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynM View Post
If the child comes back with the same doll, follow these steps:

1. Act completely normal to the parents, don't be weird or let on. Just say, oh I'm so glad you brought that doll back, its so cute! Where did you get this? Maybe I should get one for the daycare. Find out the name of the doll, etc.

2. When the parent leaves, look up the doll on the internet to see if what you feel is normal. Also, look up nanny cam dolls. Yes, they make them!

3. If it is not normal or they don't tell you where they got it, etc. and you are still suspicious, STICK IT IN THE FREEZER!!! First, cover the eyes with something like a thick blanket, but make it look like a kid is doing it.(it may have a camera in the eyes, this is common)Wrap it in a paper towel so you don't get anything from the freezer on it. Leave it there til nap time.

4. At naptime, take the doll out of the freezer and see if you can take the thing apart.

I totally get that parents are concerned, as they should be, there are a lot of crazy people watching their kids, but if they want cameras, they should have found a provider who has cameras running and gives parents access to them. Good luck finding that!
I realize this is an old thread, but seriously? This made me chuckle.
You could do all that...or, You could give the doll back to the parents and tell them you don't allow toys from home.
As a parent, I would be a bit suspicious, and more than a little irritated at that scenario.
  #79  
Old 10-17-2013, 06:47 AM
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I know this is old. But oh my that would creep me out! Do you have an update??
  #80  
Old 10-17-2013, 07:14 AM
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I also know this is an old thread but interesting, I had a stubborn parent send stuff everyday one day she sent a doll and claimed the child had to have it because she was so attached to it that she fought it was a baby ( I know, dumb) well as usual I never gave doll to child, and child didn't even asked tor it, the parent later called to make sure the chid had the doll with her, I told her no, shes busy building blocks! But this post made me suspicious. Anyways it ended up bad soon after.
  #81  
Old 10-17-2013, 07:32 AM
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My concern wouldn't be the doll with a recording but their extreme distrust. I mean things can be seen so many ways. One time a child was cutting and then started to put the scissors in her mouth and I quickly grabbed her arm before it got there and the child started to cry and told her mom that I grabbed her arm and hurt her. The parents I have today would say "then don't put scissors in your mouth" The parents of the child you have right now would file a law suit!
  #82  
Old 10-17-2013, 08:39 AM
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You could look the toy up online based on the manufacturer and if the toy happened to be thrown into the toilet by another child..ooops oh well!
  #83  
Old 10-17-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Childminder View Post
I have in my policies that any toy/item brought from home will be considered a donation to my daycare.

Then I would immediately investigate the item and confront the parent at pickup if it was indeed a recording device. Termination would follow, no amount of money is worth the aggravation and lack of trust that an invasion of privacy would bring.
I need to make this policy! I have trouble with DCPs letting their kids bring in toys because the kids "insisted" and they "couldn't take it away." Of course, it creates huge problems the instant they walk in the door. They then proceed to get mad at my DD for wanting to see the toy! She's super polite and just maybe stands a little too close and asks to "See?" but this DCG is SUPER possessive of her things and screams and hits when you try to take things away from her.

That turned into a rant. I'm this close to terming that family even though I'm pregnant and they're my only two DCKs.
  #84  
Old 10-17-2013, 09:36 AM
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I realize this is an old thread, but seriously? This made me chuckle.
You could do all that...or, You could give the doll back to the parents and tell them you don't allow toys from home.
As a parent, I would be a bit suspicious, and more than a little irritated at that scenario.


I tell the parents all.the.time. about my open door policy for them. Please, pop in!!! No one ever does If you feel I'm giving you a "show" then please come over when I'm least expecting it. No need to try to record me and possibly misconstrue what is being said or why it's being said.
  #85  
Old 10-17-2013, 10:12 AM
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I wish the OP would update as to if she took the thing apart or not. Crazy she never came back I update!
  #86  
Old 05-19-2014, 04:26 AM
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Default WOW this thread struck such a nerve that I registered in order to reply

My daughter heads to pre K in the fall and I went onto google to see if there were any devices I could use to randomly access sound from her classroom. Not because I have a reason to distrust the school but because I don't have a reason to blindly trust them either. My intention wasn't to sit and listen all day long only to have peace of mind that from time to time I could click it on and see if she was happy, talking with other students, and if there might be a reason she is crying for a long time. Earlier last year I attempted to put her into part time day care at a center 2 days a week and all was well for the first 3 weeks and on the 4th week when I arrived I could hear her crying from outside and she was inconsolable. The teacher told me she'd been that way all day and yet they never called to tell me and when I called on lunch to check on her, as I had done for 3 weeks they lied and said she was having a perfect day. She began wetting the bed, having bad dreams, no longer went into her Sunday school and randomly would start crying about returning to the center. I was supposed to be a wonderful chance for her to be with kids and me to have a few days a week to run errands and do deep cleaning without having her here as well as to begin to prepare her for being out of the home. It took 3 months for her to settle down and be able to go back into Sunday school and not bring up the place, as a 3 year old with some verbal delays we had no way of knowing what on Earth happened but if I'd had a device I could have clicked on for a moment I could have heard her crying and called the center or went to pick her up. I had told them many times that I didn't work and this was not out of need but in preparation for her going to an all day pre K the following year and yet they didn't call or give me a real trustworthy answer as to what the issue was so I was left with this terrible mistrust.

So I went onto google to try to locate such "questionable" devices that I could possibly attach to her book bag or a hair bow and I came across this forum. And you know what struck me was the amount of times the original poster called the parents AND the child Odd. She used it so many times that she began appearing Odd to me, a stranger. She even discussed how the child itself stood over the other children as if to say the child was spying also. She needs their money but doesn't like them or their child. There was a toy she never opened up and just made these suggestions on here as a guest. Well, my mother sewed a musical button into my daughter's baby blanket and also a doll but once that little battery went out there was no changing it and there was no velcro or noticeable seam. Perhaps it was a musical button that got used and then was just in there. We will never know because she never checked, she just spent quite a bit of time getting supporters to help her accuse the parents and sympathize with her about being "violated" by a listening device. Well, if she wasn't comfortable with them she shouldn't be comfortable with their money and maybe they were nervous because they never know who to trust and they too get an uncomfortable feeling from this "odd" provider but are in a dire situation to need to have them for day care at that time.

I would hope that shortly after one of the two parties terminated the contract because regardless of whether there was a device or if this provider was just a manipulator that child deserved to have proper care and not with someone who called them "Odd".

Legal or not, costly or not, I will be installing a listening device on my child in the fall and from time to time I will turn it on to check in on her. She will be frightened at first heading off to an all day program and it will take time for her to adjust but if the teacher is good at her job she will make my daughter feel more comfortable until she looks forward to it and if that's the case I will probably remove the listening device. But the days of blind trust are long gone ladies and the point of parents having to resort to "bending" the law is here, not because all daycare providers and teachers are unfit but because you never know who is until you've listened in here and there without their knowledge. I know this will not be well received but it is just where things are.

most of you will vehemently disagree with me but that's ok I'm going to do what I need to do to feel comfortable with my child leaving the home, I won't be posting stuff on youtube or using it as a soapbox to judge the school district but I will use it to help me decide whether she is making progress where she is or if I need to drive her to a different school. I'm sorry if that offends people but I'm not the only parent out there that feels this way.
  #87  
Old 05-19-2014, 04:54 AM
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Did you ever pop in - not just call - to see what was going on? I will say that even though you may have insisted that they call you and tell you she was crying, inconsolable, etc. they were probably afraid to. I can't tell you how many times, regardless of if the parent is working or not, they *refuse* to come get children (even if the child is ill) and any phone call is regarded as the teacher not being able to handle the kids/job.

I refuse to be recorded (and do not allow items from home for this reason). Not because I have something to hide, but because I have other children here and their privacy is important. Chances are very good that a parent may hear something that they have NO business hearing (news about another child, another parent speaking to the teacher, etc.) and that could get them into very hot water legally if it came out. I urge you to reconsider your idea.

Does the pre-K have an open door policy? Pop in!!! Pick up at random times, etc. Keep them on their toes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dot View Post
My daughter heads to pre K in the fall and I went onto google to see if there were any devices I could use to randomly access sound from her classroom. Not because I have a reason to distrust the school but because I don't have a reason to blindly trust them either. My intention wasn't to sit and listen all day long only to have peace of mind that from time to time I could click it on and see if she was happy, talking with other students, and if there might be a reason she is crying for a long time. Earlier last year I attempted to put her into part time day care at a center 2 days a week and all was well for the first 3 weeks and on the 4th week when I arrived I could hear her crying from outside and she was inconsolable. The teacher told me she'd been that way all day and yet they never called to tell me and when I called on lunch to check on her, as I had done for 3 weeks they lied and said she was having a perfect day. She began wetting the bed, having bad dreams, no longer went into her Sunday school and randomly would start crying about returning to the center. I was supposed to be a wonderful chance for her to be with kids and me to have a few days a week to run errands and do deep cleaning without having her here as well as to begin to prepare her for being out of the home. It took 3 months for her to settle down and be able to go back into Sunday school and not bring up the place, as a 3 year old with some verbal delays we had no way of knowing what on Earth happened but if I'd had a device I could have clicked on for a moment I could have heard her crying and called the center or went to pick her up. I had told them many times that I didn't work and this was not out of need but in preparation for her going to an all day pre K the following year and yet they didn't call or give me a real trustworthy answer as to what the issue was so I was left with this terrible mistrust.

So I went onto google to try to locate such "questionable" devices that I could possibly attach to her book bag or a hair bow and I came across this forum. And you know what struck me was the amount of times the original poster called the parents AND the child Odd. She used it so many times that she began appearing Odd to me, a stranger. She even discussed how the child itself stood over the other children as if to say the child was spying also. She needs their money but doesn't like them or their child. There was a toy she never opened up and just made these suggestions on here as a guest. Well, my mother sewed a musical button into my daughter's baby blanket and also a doll but once that little battery went out there was no changing it and there was no velcro or noticeable seam. Perhaps it was a musical button that got used and then was just in there. We will never know because she never checked, she just spent quite a bit of time getting supporters to help her accuse the parents and sympathize with her about being "violated" by a listening device. Well, if she wasn't comfortable with them she shouldn't be comfortable with their money and maybe they were nervous because they never know who to trust and they too get an uncomfortable feeling from this "odd" provider but are in a dire situation to need to have them for day care at that time.

I would hope that shortly after one of the two parties terminated the contract because regardless of whether there was a device or if this provider was just a manipulator that child deserved to have proper care and not with someone who called them "Odd".

Legal or not, costly or not, I will be installing a listening device on my child in the fall and from time to time I will turn it on to check in on her. She will be frightened at first heading off to an all day program and it will take time for her to adjust but if the teacher is good at her job she will make my daughter feel more comfortable until she looks forward to it and if that's the case I will probably remove the listening device. But the days of blind trust are long gone ladies and the point of parents having to resort to "bending" the law is here, not because all daycare providers and teachers are unfit but because you never know who is until you've listened in here and there without their knowledge. I know this will not be well received but it is just where things are.

most of you will vehemently disagree with me but that's ok I'm going to do what I need to do to feel comfortable with my child leaving the home, I won't be posting stuff on youtube or using it as a soapbox to judge the school district but I will use it to help me decide whether she is making progress where she is or if I need to drive her to a different school. I'm sorry if that offends people but I'm not the only parent out there that feels this way.
  #88  
Old 05-19-2014, 06:18 AM
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Dot, I agree with the PP. Centers, especially, seem to hesitate calling parents because parents generally do NOT want to miss work.

How do you know that your child is going to have a tough time at preschool? You have to trust in your child that she will be able to adjust. You have to trust in the preschool teachers that they will treat her properly.

I suggest you be upfront with the preschool and let them know that if your child is having a tough time that you be called immediately.

I would be FURIOUS if another family decided to record (video OR audio) my child's classroom without my consent. And to tell you the truth I would get a lawyer and go as far as I could with it.... I feel that recording other children without their parents consent is just wrong. It's one thing to record a nanny or babysitter in your own home, but to record other peoples children. I actually feel sick thinking about it.

You really should think of this from another parents perspective. If another child was carrying around a recording device that was recording your child daily would you not feel upset about that? How do you know the purpose of recordings?
  #89  
Old 05-19-2014, 06:31 AM
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I wish the OP would update as to if she took the thing apart or not. Crazy she never came back I update!
The OP is a current and active member so maybe she'll see this and give us an update.
  #90  
Old 05-19-2014, 06:34 AM
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Dot, I

I would be FURIOUS if another family decided to record (video OR audio) my child's classroom without my consent. And to tell you the truth I would get a lawyer and go as far as I could with it.... I feel that recording other children without their parents consent is just wrong. It's one thing to record a nanny or babysitter in your own home, but to record other peoples children. I actually feel sick thinking about it.
This whole process seems like a legality issue to me as well. I know a lady who used a recorder/tracker on her husband the court disallowed it all and told her she was the one breaking the law.
  #91  
Old 05-19-2014, 07:00 AM
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Agreed miss beth. I get the feeling Dot is expecting something to be wrong.

And I'm here to tell you, Dot, you're a lawsuit waiting to happen. People are extremely funny these days about their children being recorded for any reason. You should really reconsider because you are talking about violating the rights of the teachers and every single child in the classroom. Not to mention the children who aren't in your child's class, but may come in contact with her on the playground or in the cafeteria or in the library. Plus all the staff members in those areas. If you are found out, the school will be obligated to inform each family of what happened. You could be sued by dozens of families, which is well within their rights and they WOULD WIN. This is potentially a life ruining situation. You are talking about invading the privacy of countless children just to ease your own mind.

Don't you think every single parent feels the same apprehension you do? I'm a provider but I'm also the parent of a soon to be kindergartner and the thought of him going off to school literally upsets my stomach! I'm so scared for him, but I know he will tell me if something is wrong. I have that much faith in him.

As nervous as I am, I would never consider doing what you are planning. It is very intrusive and over bearing. I have a strong feeling that you are a helicopter parent.

Have some faith in your child. At this age, they are just sprouting their wings. I would hate to see you ruin that for her. If you are found out, you would be alienating every teacher in the school and every potential new friend that she could have made. But their parents will tell them to stay away from her because of her "crazy mom" and the teachers will treat her differently by being much more cautious and guarded around her.

Don't you want her to have genuine, authentic relationships with the other children and her teachers? I know you think you're protecting her, but you are actually putting her in a position to be shunned by everyone in that school. No, not every teacher or parent will feel this way, but I'm betting the vast majority of them definitely will.
  #92  
Old 05-19-2014, 07:38 AM
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As an adult and a parent, I have to say I am floored by your intentions.

I think that if you feel this strongly about it, you need to stay home.

Don't think for one minute that your child doesn't feed of off your insecurities and inability to trust others. She is going to react according to the anxiety, fear and distrust that YOU project and she WILL notice/feel it and act accordingly.

IMHO, THAT is far more detrimental to do to a child than pretty much anything else I can think of in terms of parental influences...

DO NOT SUBJECT others to your fears....especially in the manner in which you are planning to go about this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dot View Post
My daughter heads to pre K in the fall and I went onto google to see if there were any devices I could use to randomly access sound from her classroom. Not because I have a reason to distrust the school but because I don't have a reason to blindly trust them either. My intention wasn't to sit and listen all day long only to have peace of mind that from time to time I could click it on and see if she was happy, talking with other students, and if there might be a reason she is crying for a long time. Earlier last year I attempted to put her into part time day care at a center 2 days a week and all was well for the first 3 weeks and on the 4th week when I arrived I could hear her crying from outside and she was inconsolable. The teacher told me she'd been that way all day and yet they never called to tell me and when I called on lunch to check on her, as I had done for 3 weeks they lied and said she was having a perfect day. She began wetting the bed, having bad dreams, no longer went into her Sunday school and randomly would start crying about returning to the center. I was supposed to be a wonderful chance for her to be with kids and me to have a few days a week to run errands and do deep cleaning without having her here as well as to begin to prepare her for being out of the home. It took 3 months for her to settle down and be able to go back into Sunday school and not bring up the place, as a 3 year old with some verbal delays we had no way of knowing what on Earth happened but if I'd had a device I could have clicked on for a moment I could have heard her crying and called the center or went to pick her up. I had told them many times that I didn't work and this was not out of need but in preparation for her going to an all day pre K the following year and yet they didn't call or give me a real trustworthy answer as to what the issue was so I was left with this terrible mistrust.

So I went onto google to try to locate such "questionable" devices that I could possibly attach to her book bag or a hair bow and I came across this forum. And you know what struck me was the amount of times the original poster called the parents AND the child Odd. She used it so many times that she began appearing Odd to me, a stranger. She even discussed how the child itself stood over the other children as if to say the child was spying also. She needs their money but doesn't like them or their child. There was a toy she never opened up and just made these suggestions on here as a guest. Well, my mother sewed a musical button into my daughter's baby blanket and also a doll but once that little battery went out there was no changing it and there was no velcro or noticeable seam. Perhaps it was a musical button that got used and then was just in there. We will never know because she never checked, she just spent quite a bit of time getting supporters to help her accuse the parents and sympathize with her about being "violated" by a listening device. Well, if she wasn't comfortable with them she shouldn't be comfortable with their money and maybe they were nervous because they never know who to trust and they too get an uncomfortable feeling from this "odd" provider but are in a dire situation to need to have them for day care at that time.

I would hope that shortly after one of the two parties terminated the contract because regardless of whether there was a device or if this provider was just a manipulator that child deserved to have proper care and not with someone who called them "Odd".

Legal or not, costly or not, I will be installing a listening device on my child in the fall and from time to time I will turn it on to check in on her. She will be frightened at first heading off to an all day program and it will take time for her to adjust but if the teacher is good at her job she will make my daughter feel more comfortable until she looks forward to it and if that's the case I will probably remove the listening device. But the days of blind trust are long gone ladies and the point of parents having to resort to "bending" the law is here, not because all daycare providers and teachers are unfit but because you never know who is until you've listened in here and there without their knowledge. I know this will not be well received but it is just where things are.

most of you will vehemently disagree with me but that's ok I'm going to do what I need to do to feel comfortable with my child leaving the home, I won't be posting stuff on youtube or using it as a soapbox to judge the school district but I will use it to help me decide whether she is making progress where she is or if I need to drive her to a different school. I'm sorry if that offends people but I'm not the only parent out there that feels this way.
  #93  
Old 05-19-2014, 07:40 AM
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As an adult and a parent, I have to say I am floored by your intentions.

I think that if you feel this strongly about it, you need to stay home.

Don't think for one minute that your child doesn't feed of off your insecurities and inability to trust others. She is going to react according to the anxiety, fear and distrust that YOU project and she WILL notice/feel it and act accordingly.

IMHO, THAT is far more detrimental to do to a child than pretty much anything else I can think of in terms of parental influences...

DO NOT SUBJECT others to your fears....especially in the manner in which you are planning to go about this.
AMEN to the comment in bold!!!!!
  #94  
Old 05-19-2014, 08:05 AM
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sharlan sharlan is online now
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Originally Posted by Dot View Post
My daughter heads to pre K in the fall and I went onto google to see if there were any devices I could use to randomly access sound from her classroom. Not because I have a reason to distrust the school but because I don't have a reason to blindly trust them either. My intention wasn't to sit and listen all day long only to have peace of mind that from time to time I could click it on and see if she was happy, talking with other students, and if there might be a reason she is crying for a long time. Earlier last year I attempted to put her into part time day care at a center 2 days a week and all was well for the first 3 weeks and on the 4th week when I arrived I could hear her crying from outside and she was inconsolable. The teacher told me she'd been that way all day and yet they never called to tell me and when I called on lunch to check on her, as I had done for 3 weeks they lied and said she was having a perfect day. She began wetting the bed, having bad dreams, no longer went into her Sunday school and randomly would start crying about returning to the center. I was supposed to be a wonderful chance for her to be with kids and me to have a few days a week to run errands and do deep cleaning without having her here as well as to begin to prepare her for being out of the home. It took 3 months for her to settle down and be able to go back into Sunday school and not bring up the place, as a 3 year old with some verbal delays we had no way of knowing what on Earth happened but if I'd had a device I could have clicked on for a moment I could have heard her crying and called the center or went to pick her up. I had told them many times that I didn't work and this was not out of need but in preparation for her going to an all day pre K the following year and yet they didn't call or give me a real trustworthy answer as to what the issue was so I was left with this terrible mistrust.

So I went onto google to try to locate such "questionable" devices that I could possibly attach to her book bag or a hair bow and I came across this forum. And you know what struck me was the amount of times the original poster called the parents AND the child Odd. She used it so many times that she began appearing Odd to me, a stranger. She even discussed how the child itself stood over the other children as if to say the child was spying also. She needs their money but doesn't like them or their child. There was a toy she never opened up and just made these suggestions on here as a guest. Well, my mother sewed a musical button into my daughter's baby blanket and also a doll but once that little battery went out there was no changing it and there was no velcro or noticeable seam. Perhaps it was a musical button that got used and then was just in there. We will never know because she never checked, she just spent quite a bit of time getting supporters to help her accuse the parents and sympathize with her about being "violated" by a listening device. Well, if she wasn't comfortable with them she shouldn't be comfortable with their money and maybe they were nervous because they never know who to trust and they too get an uncomfortable feeling from this "odd" provider but are in a dire situation to need to have them for day care at that time.

I would hope that shortly after one of the two parties terminated the contract because regardless of whether there was a device or if this provider was just a manipulator that child deserved to have proper care and not with someone who called them "Odd".

Legal or not, costly or not, I will be installing a listening device on my child in the fall and from time to time I will turn it on to check in on her. She will be frightened at first heading off to an all day program and it will take time for her to adjust but if the teacher is good at her job she will make my daughter feel more comfortable until she looks forward to it and if that's the case I will probably remove the listening device. But the days of blind trust are long gone ladies and the point of parents having to resort to "bending" the law is here, not because all daycare providers and teachers are unfit but because you never know who is until you've listened in here and there without their knowledge. I know this will not be well received but it is just where things are.

most of you will vehemently disagree with me but that's ok I'm going to do what I need to do to feel comfortable with my child leaving the home, I won't be posting stuff on youtube or using it as a soapbox to judge the school district but I will use it to help me decide whether she is making progress where she is or if I need to drive her to a different school. I'm sorry if that offends people but I'm not the only parent out there that feels this way.
As a parent who's children were abused and neglected in daycares, more than one, I wouldn't go to the extreme of recording the daycare. You're opening a can of legal worms.

My response would be to talk to your child every single day. Talk to them and ask what took place today. Calmly and gently ask, what did you eat today, what toys did you play with, did you watch cartoons, where did you play (front yard, back yard, playroom).

I failed my own children. They went through hell and I never questioned it. I didn't learn much of it until years later. By the time I got home from work, I was tired. I left the house at 5:30 AM and got home at 6 PM. My goal was to pick my 3 girls up from daycare, get them home, cook dinner (back before fast food was the norm), see to homework, showers, bed, and clothes packed for the next day in two hours.

Parents, all parents, take the time to actually have a conversation with your children. LISTEN to their answers. Every day, I asked my girls, how was your day. Every day, I asked my providers how the girls were. I never asked specifics. I never truly knew what went on. As long as everyone said "fine" I was good with that.

Providers, don't be offended when parents want to know specifics about their child's day. I understand that we're "done" at the end of the day. We want the parent to walk up to the door, take their child, and walk away. We spend more awake time with their children than they do. We're their eyes and ears during the day.
  #95  
Old 05-19-2014, 08:29 AM
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If you don't trust the care your child is receiving, don't take them back. Period.
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  #96  
Old 05-19-2014, 10:05 AM
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To Dot,

I completely understand your desire to do anything to protect your child. However, I am not sure a recording device would even be helpful. As you stated you'd be "checking in from time to time." Well, have you thought about the fact that you will be catching sentences, phrases, and words completely out of context? You won't know what is said before you "click in" for your snippet. A harsh sounding, "NO!" from the teacher could be saving your child from a fall or other injury and you won't know that. All you will hear is the "mean" way the teacher spoke to your child.

Also, I for one, will completely admit that if I had a way to see and/or listen to my child during the day I would very quickly become obsessed with it and want to see and hear everything. I would have a very unhealthy addiction to knowing every little thing that goes on. Is there anything wrong with knowing every little thing that happens? No, not inherently, but is that how you want to spend your time? Do you want to know the sweet little secrets your daughter whispers to her friends? Do you want to every little mistake she makes? How will you feel if you "click in" and hear your daughter doing something naughty? If the teacher redirects her or gives her consequences will you be able to refrain from re-disciplining her at home (for minor offenses that every kid goes through).

Also, take seriously the fact that you will be hearing confidential information that other parents share with the teacher. It isn't right for you to hear about divorces, pregnancies, illnesses, miscarriages, job losses, domestic issues, money troubles, or any other myriad issues parents often confide in us. Sure, this isn't your goal but it WILL happen just by happenstance is you are listening in throughout the day.

I agree that you should pop in to see what is going on at the preschool often. Pop in at different times and on different days. Look through the window on the door (if there is one) before you go in. Stand outside the door before you go in. Volunteer often. This, I think, will ease your fears much much more than listening from afar.

Lastly, I know it is so difficult but you cannot control every experience your child has. She's going to have a mean teacher at some point (Haven't we all? Mine was 2nd grade), she's going to get bullied, she is going to be disappointed when she doesn't get picked for a game or when she doesn't do as well as she liked on a project. These are all tough parts of growing up. Be there for her. Acknowledge and support her feelings. I think that is so much more powerful than listening to her day in snippets.
  #97  
Old 05-19-2014, 11:34 AM
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Heidi Heidi is offline
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To Dot,

I completely understand your desire to do anything to protect your child. However, I am not sure a recording device would even be helpful. As you stated you'd be "checking in from time to time." Well, have you thought about the fact that you will be catching sentences, phrases, and words completely out of context? You won't know what is said before you "click in" for your snippet. A harsh sounding, "NO!" from the teacher could be saving your child from a fall or other injury and you won't know that. All you will hear is the "mean" way the teacher spoke to your child.

Also, I for one, will completely admit that if I had a way to see and/or listen to my child during the day I would very quickly become obsessed with it and want to see and hear everything. I would have a very unhealthy addiction to knowing every little thing that goes on. Is there anything wrong with knowing every little thing that happens? No, not inherently, but is that how you want to spend your time? Do you want to know the sweet little secrets your daughter whispers to her friends? Do you want to every little mistake she makes? How will you feel if you "click in" and hear your daughter doing something naughty? If the teacher redirects her or gives her consequences will you be able to refrain from re-disciplining her at home (for minor offenses that every kid goes through).

Also, take seriously the fact that you will be hearing confidential information that other parents share with the teacher. It isn't right for you to hear about divorces, pregnancies, illnesses, miscarriages, job losses, domestic issues, money troubles, or any other myriad issues parents often confide in us. Sure, this isn't your goal but it WILL happen just by happenstance is you are listening in throughout the day.

I agree that you should pop in to see what is going on at the preschool often. Pop in at different times and on different days. Look through the window on the door (if there is one) before you go in. Stand outside the door before you go in. Volunteer often. This, I think, will ease your fears much much more than listening from afar.

Lastly, I know it is so difficult but you cannot control every experience your child has. She's going to have a mean teacher at some point (Haven't we all? Mine was 2nd grade), she's going to get bullied, she is going to be disappointed when she doesn't get picked for a game or when she doesn't do as well as she liked on a project. These are all tough parts of growing up. Be there for her. Acknowledge and support her feelings. I think that is so much more powerful than listening to her day in snippets.
beautifully written!
  #98  
Old 05-19-2014, 11:41 AM
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Annalee Annalee is offline
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To Dot,


Lastly, I know it is so difficult but you cannot control every experience your child has. She's going to have a mean teacher at some point (Haven't we all? Mine was 2nd grade), she's going to get bullied, she is going to be disappointed when she doesn't get picked for a game or when she doesn't do as well as she liked on a project. These are all tough parts of growing up. Be there for her. Acknowledge and support her feelings. I think that is so much more powerful than listening to her day in snippets.
Mom and I were talking about this today! As parents, including myself, I think we are too quick to try and fix things instead of allowing our children to learn and grow socially-emotionally. Sure, we can jump in if our children are struggling, but let's give the kids a chance. In life, we are going to work in places we do not like, or work for people we do not care for. However, we do what we have to do to support our families until something better comes along. Parents fixing things all the time teaches kids not to try or work hard and to stand around waiting for the next big fix. Happiness with hard work is created by the individual, not "fixed" by someone else.
  #99  
Old 05-19-2014, 11:45 AM
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Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
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Mom and I were talking about this today! As parents, including myself, I think we are too quick to try and fix things instead of allowing our children to learn and grow socially-emotionally. Sure, we can jump in if our children are struggling, but let's give the kids a chance. In life, we are going to work in places we do not like, or work for people we do not care for. However, we do what we have to do to support our families until something better comes along. Parents fixing things all the time teaches kids not to try or work hard and to stand around waiting for the next big fix. Happiness with hard work is created by the individual, not "fixed" by someone else.
  #100  
Old 05-19-2014, 11:47 AM
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