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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>UGH-More Bite Marks!
littlemommy 07:46 AM 08-15-2011
Friday evening, at about 7, a DCM sent me a picture message of a bite mark on her 11 month old son's arm. In the text, she said "I know you can't keep an eye on them 24/7 but it's 7 and this mark is still there."

I didn't see the mark before he left, she noticed it when she got home. It had to have happened when I was in the bathroom or changing a diaper, but I never did hear the little guy cry.

I don't know who bit him. I know my 18 month old son has bit dck's in the past, but I don't want to point the finger at him when I don't know for sure. There are a few other toddlers that have bit in the past, so I have no idea who it was.

I hate sending kids home with bite marks. I don't want to lose clients over this, but yes, there are times I need to go to the bathroom (I'm pregnant!!) If I have noticed that bites only happen when that 11 month old boy and the 2 year old dcb are here. That's all I've narrowed it down to so far.
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Kaddidle Care 08:20 AM 08-15-2011
What's the chance that he bit himself?
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godiva83 08:22 AM 08-15-2011
Ugh biting- one of the more annoying qualities toddlers have!
Is it possible that he got bit at home... I can't believe that if the mark was that intense you wouldn't hear the little guy cry or see the after tears, red puffy eyes ect.
If it isn't possible that he got the bite elsewhere reassure the Mum, you will shadow the biter of the group and when leaving to go to the washroom you will separate the children with activities in their highchairs. Also, sadly biting happens- it could have just as easily happened while you were sitting right by their sides. Toddlers act on a whim and are very egocentric beings they bite, hit, grab and push in order to suit their own needs- just a part of development. Your best bet to nip it in the bud is positive reinforcement, redirection and shadowing. Mum, should no that it does happen- and you will do your best to stay on top of it
All the best
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Crystal 08:25 AM 08-15-2011
didn't this happen before? is it the same child that was bitten? didn't you not know when it happened that time as well? I would think that you would have made arrangements so that it would not happen again.....perhaps putting all of the children into pack n plays or something when you use the restroom????

I think my biggest concern as the parent is that you are not seeing it happen and not reporting it to the parent because you aren't even aware that their child was bitten.
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littlemommy 08:59 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
didn't this happen before? is it the same child that was bitten? didn't you not know when it happened that time as well? I would think that you would have made arrangements so that it would not happen again.....perhaps putting all of the children into pack n plays or something when you use the restroom????

I think my biggest concern as the parent is that you are not seeing it happen and not reporting it to the parent because you aren't even aware that their child was bitten.
It did happen before, but it was the 2 year old boy that had marks. The day that happened, his grandma picked him up. She said that he bites himself and thought that's probably what happened.

As far as putting everyone in pack n plays, I don't have the room for that many pack n plays! I have one on the main floor and one upstairs in my bedroom. Same with high chairs, I don't have room for them.

This little boy couldn't have bit himself, he only has 2 teeth. It's hard knowing who to shadow because I have 3 new girls in the group. One that is coming back after having the summer off I know has bit in the past. The other 2 are sisters, and usually attack each other, but I wouldn't put it past them not to bite others.

I guess I'll put the little one in a pack n play. Not sure what to do with the older ones when I have to leave the room.
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Cat Herder 09:04 AM 08-15-2011
On 07-26-11 you said that the other boy could not have bitten himself, he never cried, you were not sure who bit, you did not see it and you felt your DS might be the biter.

I really think you are going to HAVE to confine the dck's to highchairs, pnp's or by another means when you leave the room.

I am not trying to be ugly, you just REALLY need to get a handle on this fast.

It is the only way I know to break the cycle.
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littlemommy 09:09 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
On 07-26-11 you said that the other boy could not have bitten himself, he never cried, you were not sure who bit, you did not see it and you felt your DS might be the biter.

I really think you are going to HAVE to confine the dck's to highchairs, pnp's or by another means when you leave the room.

I am not trying to be ugly, you just REALLY need to get a handle on this fast.
I was just saying that his grandma said he probably bit himself. I didn't say that's exactly what happened. His mother agreed a few days later that it could have been him.

I know my son is a biter, but this seems to happen even when I take him with me and leave the room. I always do separate him from the group if I am leaving because I know he has a tendency to bite.

It is still happening even when I take him with me. I'm guessing it is either one of the 3 new girls or the 2 year old boy. Since the 2 year old had the bite marks, he has been more aggressive-hitting, taking toys, horrible sharer.

I know I need to figure something out. I know the kids need to be separated when I leave the room, but I'm not sure how to do that with the limited space I have.
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Cat Herder 09:15 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
I know I need to figure something out. I know the kids need to be separated when I leave the room, but I'm not sure how to do that with the limited space I have.
You may have to lower your numbers to accommodate their needs with your available resources.

It is not an easy answer, but working with kids is rarely easy.

Our first and foremost responsibility is providing them a safe environment.

Please don't see it as an attack...I am pretty sure I am telling you what is already in your head.
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sharlan 09:20 AM 08-15-2011
I know it's a hassle, but can you line them up outside the bathroom, leaving the door open, while you go?

Having 2 biters at the same time, I had to always take one to the bathroom or upstairs with me.
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littlemommy 09:23 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
You may have to lower your numbers to accommodate their needs with your available resources.

It is not an easy answer, but working with kids is rarely easy.

Our first and foremost responsibility is providing them a safe environment.

Please don't see it as an attack...I am pretty sure I am telling you what is already in your head.
I have noticed that the entire group is more aggressive/cranky when the 11 month old boy is here. That little guy cries and cries all day long. He doesn't nap, either. Last week he was not here until Friday. There also wasn't ANY biting until Friday.

The other kids have more sharing issues and are just on edge when he is here. The problem is, I don't want to term, because he will only be here until December. His (single) mom is going to school (which is why he has barely been here the past 2 weeks.) She informed me 2 weeks ago that they will be moving next semester. I'd hate to put her in a tough spot for that short amount of time.

If it gets worse, I may have to though. It's not fun for me or the other children to listen to his constant screaming. I'm not sure I'll fill his spot when he leaves, either. I'm due in January, so that will be enough to adjust to!
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Cat Herder 09:29 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
I have noticed that the entire group is more aggressive/cranky when the 11 month old boy is here. That little guy cries and cries all day long. He doesn't nap, either. Last week he was not here until Friday. There also wasn't ANY biting until Friday.

The other kids have more sharing issues and are just on edge when he is here. The problem is, I don't want to term, because he will only be here until December. His (single) mom is going to school (which is why he has barely been here the past 2 weeks.) She informed me 2 weeks ago that they will be moving next semester. I'd hate to put her in a tough spot for that short amount of time.

If it gets worse, I may have to though. It's not fun for me or the other children to listen to his constant screaming. I'm not sure I'll fill his spot when he leaves, either. I'm due in January, so that will be enough to adjust to!
Ugh, yeah..... A screamer can tap at your will to live. The frustration of that really has a negative impact on the entire group.

I do wish you good luck, it is a miserable place to be in.

For now I'd stick with divide and conquer.
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littlemommy 09:33 AM 08-15-2011
Thanks ladies for you help/support.

I will try lining them up with me. I'm going to do some major shadowing to find out who the other biter is!
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youretooloud 10:13 AM 08-15-2011
Is it only one victim? Or lots?

You can change how you do everything until you see who's doing the biting. But, make sure you take the babies with you when you have to leave the room. Or put a playpen in the laundry room (out of reach of any other kids) and put the victims in there while you change all the diapers.

Or just lie to the state... sure you are SUPPOSED to do diaper changes a certain way, but just say you do, but change them in the same room as the other kids until this biting ends.

Or buy a Mei tai and carry the victim (if there's only one) while you do other things. That way, the baby is on your back and nobody can get to him.

Once you find out who the biter is, you can work on that issue.
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littlemommy 10:43 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by youretooloud:
Is it only one victim? Or lots?

You can change how you do everything until you see who's doing the biting. But, make sure you take the babies with you when you have to leave the room. Or put a playpen in the laundry room (out of reach of any other kids) and put the victims in there while you change all the diapers.

Or just lie to the state... sure you are SUPPOSED to do diaper changes a certain way, but just say you do, but change them in the same room as the other kids until this biting ends.

Or buy a Mei tai and carry the victim (if there's only one) while you do other things. That way, the baby is on your back and nobody can get to him.

Once you find out who the biter is, you can work on that issue.
There have been 2 victims, both the only 2 boys other than my son. In a way, since I have seen my son be aggressive towards them before, I'm thinking he's a bit territorial since they are coming and playing with his toys. BUT, that doesn't explain ALL of the biting, because there have been times there are bites when he is with me.
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youretooloud 10:48 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
There have been 2 victims, both the only 2 boys other than my son. In a way, since I have seen my son be aggressive towards them before, I'm thinking he's a bit territorial since they are coming and playing with his toys. BUT, that doesn't explain ALL of the biting, because there have been times there are bites when he is with me.

Too bad you can't set up a hidden camera. LOL.

I've had biters and I can tell by the teeth marks who is doing it. Can you figure it out that way?

I would still change everything for a while. Especially since the kids aren't crying when they are being attacked, you'll never know when it's happening. My recent biter does it while I'm right there, but it looks innocent until the child yells "OW!".
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littlemommy 11:09 AM 08-15-2011
Yeah- a camera would be great!! Haha

When the 2 year old had bite marks, they did not look like they were from my son. I don't think he can open his mouth that wide!

With the 11 month old that just got bit, all I saw was a picture that his mom sent me on my phone, so I never saw the actual bite. All of the toddlers have the same amount of teeth, so I'd have to look in detail of the spacing.

I wish there was a quick fix to this, but I know there's not. I just hope it doesn't turn into a chain reaction, where all the kids start biting!
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Crystal 11:10 AM 08-15-2011
In your OP you say that he didn't cry when bitten. Then you go on to say he screams and cries all day. I am confused.

I know you want to fix this, and I know you don't want it to continue happening, but you seem to not really have done anything to stop it. It also seems that you really think it is your own son doing it, but also seem to be in denial that it probably is him and you are trying to convince yourself, as well as others, that it must be another child and you just haven't figured out who.

Have you asked the other kids who is biting them? Two year olds are quite capable of saying who did it.

If I were you I would find a way to contain the children whenever you must leave the room and I'd limit those times to only when absolutley neccessary. I wouldn't get on the computer or do anything at all that removes your attention from the children for even a moment, except for using the restroom. As for diapering, all children should go with you. You need your privacy when you are using the restroom, but there is no reason they cannot all be there for diapering.

Antoher thing, it seems that you are blaming the victim here. As if, because he screams and cries, the other children are irritable and that's why the biting occurs. That is so not cool, IMO.

If you don't get a handle on this, you are quite likely to lose your DCK....parents will only be okay with this for a very limited amount of time.....and when you admittedly are not aware that it even happened until the parent finds the bite mark later, you are likely to lose them sooner, rather than later.
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Cat Herder 11:21 AM 08-15-2011
I just noticed that Care Courses is offering a training course on this. It is $17 but it is worth 2 hours credit, too. It is called "Biting Hurts".

http://www.carecourses.com/Border_co...ng_Hurts_b.htm

It may help a bit and you can pass it on to the parents so it becomes a team effort. It is worth a shot??

I'd have given anything to know that classes were available online a couple years ago...

I had to learn the hard way...
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Sunshine44 11:23 AM 08-15-2011
{{hugs}} I've one of my kids was a biter. I do not have any advice, but keep on keeping on. All things shall pass.
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CheekyChick 11:28 AM 08-15-2011
If it is your DS, could you take him to the restroom with you? That way, if someone gets bit while you're in the restroom, you can at least say it wasn't your son.
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youretooloud 11:29 AM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
In your OP you say that he didn't cry when bitten. Then you go on to say he screams and cries all day. I am confused.
When the victim is a screamer anyway, we tend not to notice when they are crying for a reason. I really would just start carrying the 11 month old as much as possible to keep him off the floor... just for a while.

I've seen those giant baby playpens. I've never seen one in person, but could you buy one or two sets of those and create a baby space? Or a big kid space? That way, there isn't as much frustration.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CHAQ8wIwAQ This might be too small, especially if it's a big kid space. But, something like this.
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youretooloud 11:31 AM 08-15-2011
Here is what you need! Heck.. I need one!

A rotating baby bungee jump.
Attached: Harris-YMCA-Baby-Bungee.jpg (72.0 KB) 
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littlemommy 12:12 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by youretooloud:
When the victim is a screamer anyway, we tend not to notice when they are crying for a reason. I really would just start carrying the 11 month old as much as possible to keep him off the floor... just for a while.

I've seen those giant baby playpens. I've never seen one in person, but could you buy one or two sets of those and create a baby space? Or a big kid space? That way, there isn't as much frustration.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CHAQ8wIwAQ This might be too small, especially if it's a big kid space. But, something like this.
This boy is very fussy and whiney most of the day. It is aggetating to me, so I"m sure it is to the group as well.

And yes, I do take my son with me if I leave the room-because I know that he HAS bitten. However, Friday the bite mark happened, and DS was with me. I'm not trying to make excuses for my son, I'm just stating the fact that it happened and he was with me. When he is playing with the other kids, I watch him very closely and can correct him before he does it.

Yes, I'm sure the mom is angry that I don't know who did it, but can I have my eyes on every kid at every possible second? No.

The victims as well as the other kids are too young to tell me who did it. I've tried asking, and they point at a different kid every time. If I ask "did so and so do it?" They say yes every time. The older kids that I have in care were not here that day, so obviously they can't tell me.
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SilverSabre25 12:16 PM 08-15-2011
As for the mark being there until 7 PM...my biter boy (who thankfully seems to have stopped, although the bites were always far between) would leave bruises that would last for DAYS, even a week. He almost broke the skin on my daughter's chest...through her shirt! He also bit one of my dcb's on the cheek and left a bruise for a week, and then my daughter on the nose which left scrapes.

Yeah...he's vicious. I figured out his trigger though and we eliminated it so all seems to be well.
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littlemommy 12:16 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I just noticed that Care Courses is offering a training course on this. It is $17 but it is worth 2 hours credit, too. It is called "Biting Hurts".

http://www.carecourses.com/Border_Co...ng_Hurts_b.htm

It may help a bit and you can pass it on to the parents so it becomes a team effort. It is worth a shot??

I'd have given anything to know that classes were available online a couple years ago...

I had to learn the hard way...
Thanks Catherder. You are very supportive, as I'm sure you've gone through this a time or two.

That link didn't work tho. I'll try googling it.
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Cat Herder 12:21 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
Thanks Catherder. You are very supportive, as I'm sure you've gone through this a time or two.

That link didn't work tho. I'll try googling it.
I fixed it... I type it in by hand after writing it on a post it note... The C was not a capitol letter..

I have NO computer skills... I pay for all my kids computer classes, though... That counts, right??

I have been through the biting, oh, yes... Mine was politically loaded, too... NEVER keep a child of your spouses employer...just sayin'
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littlemommy 12:21 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
As for the mark being there until 7 PM...my biter boy (who thankfully seems to have stopped, although the bites were always far between) would leave bruises that would last for DAYS, even a week. He almost broke the skin on my daughter's chest...through her shirt! He also bit one of my dcb's on the cheek and left a bruise for a week, and then my daughter on the nose which left scrapes.

Yeah...he's vicious. I figured out his trigger though and we eliminated it so all seems to be well.
Can I ask what his trigger was?

Like I said earlier, the bites only seem to happen here when the other 2 dcb's are here. Has anyone noticed biting be more of a boy thing?
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SilverSabre25 12:25 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
Can I ask what his trigger was?

Like I said earlier, the bites only seem to happen here when the other 2 dcb's are here. Has anyone noticed biting be more of a boy thing?
His trigger was/is chaos. If the room is overwhelming for some reason, he ends up biting. So, when we have a particularly rowdy day, or extra kids who riled everyone up, or everyone is extra fractious and worked up, he's likely to bite.
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littlemommy 12:31 PM 08-15-2011
I think that's my son's problem, but only with boys.

I still need to figure out who the other biter is.
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Country Kids 12:34 PM 08-15-2011
Where was he bitten? The reason I ask is it either wasn't very noticeable so how do you know for sure that it didn't happen after he left. You didn't notice it and the mother didn't notice it till AFTER she had him at home. That is what would worry me, the things that seem to appear after the child leaves my care and then they question me on it. So if it was still there that late, it seems it would have been noticeable upon pick up.
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littlemommy 12:40 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Where was he bitten? The reason I ask is it either wasn't very noticeable so how do you know for sure that it didn't happen after he left. You didn't notice it and the mother didn't notice it till AFTER she had him at home. That is what would worry me, the things that seem to appear after the child leaves my care and then they question me on it. So if it was still there that late, it seems it would have been noticeable upon pick up.
It was on his forearm by his elbow. I thought it was weird that she didn't let me know until 7...3 hours AFTER she picked him up. Not sure how it would have happened at home. I know she has had her other 2 kids for the summer, but they are 8 and 11, hopefully knowing better not to bite!

And he couldn't have bit himself. He only has 2 bottom teeth, and the picture showed an entire mouth full of skin. I don't know how I didn't notice it. That makes me feel bad. Unless it happened when I went to get his cup out of the fridge to put in his bag RIGHT before he left and it wasn't as red yet, I don't know.
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PitterPatter 12:50 PM 08-15-2011
If I can't hold it until nap time I take mine up to the restroom with me and sit them in a row in the hall just outside the door. I can't see them but I can hear them. I can hear little susie saying STOP IT JOHNNY! So I know Johnny did something then when I go out I ask and look. That may help u. Just sit them along the wall in the hall. I tell them "Criss Cross Apple Sauce", they sit indian style on the floor. Then I say "Clap clap in your lap", They fold their hands in their laps. Now of course when I get out they are not in their laps. It's just a routine so they know what to expect and that I expect them to sit quietly for a minute.

Good luck to u!
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littlemommy 12:59 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by PitterPatter:
If I can't hold it until nap time I take mine up to the restroom with me and sit them in a row in the hall just outside the door. I can't see them but I can hear them. I can hear little susie saying STOP IT JOHNNY! So I know Johnny did something then when I go out I ask and look. That may help u. Just sit them along the wall in the hall. I tell them "Criss Cross Apple Sauce", they sit indian style on the floor. Then I say "Clap clap in your lap", They fold their hands in their laps. Now of course when I get out they are not in their laps. It's just a routine so they know what to expect and that I expect them to sit quietly for a minute.

Good luck to u!
That would work, if my group were a little older. I have mainly 2 year olds, most of which don't listen very well. If something does go wrong, they are either quiet or only whine, they won't tell me who did what. That makes it even harder!
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Cat Herder 01:24 PM 08-15-2011
What kind of high chairs do you use??

I have the portable clip on's (tot-locks) to save space.

I clip them to the table (five 1-2 year olds), buckle them in good, hand them each a dry erase board and marker... It keeps them occupied and safe while I run to the bathroom real quick.

I think I paid $30 each for them...

Would that work there?
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littlemommy 01:34 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
What kind of high chairs do you use??

I have the portable clip on's (tot-locks) to save space.

I clip them to the table (five 1-2 year olds), buckle them in good, hand them each a dry erase board and marker... It keeps them occupied and safe while I run to the bathroom real quick.

I think I paid $30 each for them...

Would that work there?
I only have one big high chair. The toddlers all sit at a little card table for lunch.
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Cat Herder 01:55 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
I only have one big high chair. The toddlers all sit at a little card table for lunch.
OK, so the booster seats that have the 3-point harnesses would work for 4 of your kids at that table plus one in the big high chair. If you take your son with you..that seperates 6 kids.

Would that solve the problem?? I don't know how many you have....

Walmart.com has these "online only" for $15 and "site to store" shipping is free.
Attached: folding booster seat.jpg (16.7 KB) 
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harperluu 02:04 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
On 07-26-11 you said that the other boy could not have bitten himself, he never cried, you were not sure who bit, you did not see it and you felt your DS might be the biter.

I really think you are going to HAVE to confine the dck's to highchairs, pnp's or by another means when you leave the room.

I am not trying to be ugly, you just REALLY need to get a handle on this fast.

It is the only way I know to break the cycle.
For your own safety, I completely agree with this message. If you were reported to licensing by any one of your clients that there is a mystery biter that's biting unbeknownst to you, you WILL receive a corrective action.

Take the biter with you. If you don't know who the biter is, then they ALL need to be confined when you are not directly with them. You CANNOT just throw up your hands and claim ignorance of the situation. I would be distressed if I were the parent as well.

Bite wounds need to be tended to as well, in case the skin has been broken. If clients are finding these wounds once they leave care, then this is a URGENT issue. Typically ice on the bite mark will alleviate that lasting bruising.

I feel supportive of a provider that is taking direct action when they have a biter in their midst. But this laisez faire attitude is not going to do you or your clients any favors. Protect yourself by getting to the bottom of this and taking preventative measures immediately.
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Crystal 02:09 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by harperluu:
For your own safety, I completely agree with this message. If you were reported to licensing by any one of your clients that there is a mystery biter that's biting unbeknownst to you, you WILL receive a corrective action.

Take the biter with you. If you don't know who the biter is, then they ALL need to be confined when you are not directly with them. You CANNOT just throw up your hands and claim ignorance of the situation. I would be distressed if I were the parent as well.

Bite wounds need to be tended to as well, in case the skin has been broken. If clients are finding these wounds once they leave care, then this is a URGENT issue. Typically ice on the bite mark will alleviate that lasting bruising.

I feel supportive of a provider that is taking direct action when they have a biter in their midst. But this laisez faire attitude is not going to do you or your clients any favors. Protect yourself by getting to the bottom of this and taking preventative measures immediately.
I totally agree.
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nannyde 02:52 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
Yes, I'm sure the mom is angry that I don't know who did it, but can I have my eyes on every kid at every possible second? No.
You want it to be that way.

If they were your kids it would be that way.

But with other people's kids it's NOT that way.

If you don't have the physical set up to confine when you have to go out of the room then you don't have the right physical set up to do child care.

If you don't have the space for confinement equipment then you don't have enough space to do child care.

If you don't have the money for confinement equipment then you can't afford to do child care.

If you can't either confine them or phsycially directly visually supervise them at ALL times they are up on ten toes then you have too many kids.

If your son is the perp then you may have to stop doing day care to protect the other kids from him.

Every provider goes thru a mourning phase when they really realize that doing child care is NOTHING like taking care of your own kids, the accountability is a bazillion million times more than with your own kids, and "kids will be kids" is only for your OWN kids when your OWN kids are the ones harmed.

You have to grieve that idea... and put it away. You need to get to the point where you understand that you must have careful supervision at ALL times they are up and interacting with each other.

I have a really good old friend who did care for 25 years. Her sister was a provider too in a little town in Iowa. She had biters and in the end it landed her with a founded case of child neglect and her registration removed with no ability to do child care for ten years. It was bites to the face that got the DHS involved.
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littlemommy 03:14 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
You want it to be that way.

If they were your kids it would be that way.

But with other people's kids it's NOT that way.

If you don't have the physical set up to confine when you have to go out of the room then you don't have the right physical set up to do child care.

If you don't have the space for confinement equipment then you don't have enough space to do child care.

If you don't have the money for confinement equipment then you can't afford to do child care.

If you can't either confine them or phsycially directly visually supervise them at ALL times they are up on ten toes then you have too many kids.

If your son is the perp then you may have to stop doing day care to protect the other kids from him.

Every provider goes thru a mourning phase when they really realize that doing child care is NOTHING like taking care of your own kids, the accountability is a bazillion million times more than with your own kids, and "kids will be kids" is only for your OWN kids when your OWN kids are the ones harmed.

You have to grieve that idea... and put it away. You need to get to the point where you understand that you must have careful supervision at ALL times they are up and interacting with each other.

I have a really good old friend who did care for 25 years. Her sister was a provider too in a little town in Iowa. She had biters and in the end it landed her with a founded case of child neglect and her registration removed with no ability to do child care for ten years. It was bites to the face that got the DHS involved.
Thanks for you input. I am doing what I can. And for the record, my son has been a victim of biting, too. I know I have more than one biter and I'm doing my best to figure it out. It doesn't happen every day or to every kid, and I don't have all kids here every day, so the process of elimination is a bit harder.

Just because I have a smaller home and don't have 8 pack and plays doesn't mean I shouldn't or can't be doing daycare. And no, I don't have 8 kids here. I'm licensed for 10, but I'm not comfortable with that many.

Two weeks ago I went to a child care conference. They talked about biting, hitting, and other toddler/child behavior. It is normal, and they stressed that. That does not mean I am sweeping it under the rug or letting it go without investigating. I am doing what I can. I know it needs to be dealt with. My problem is right now that I don't know who the other biter is.

Since my son has also been a victim of hitting AND biting, I think I know who the other biter is. No biting has happened today, and the other two boys are not here.
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nannyde 03:38 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by littlemommy:
Thanks for you input. I am doing what I can. And for the record, my son has been a victim of biting, too. I know I have more than one biter and I'm doing my best to figure it out. It doesn't happen every day or to every kid, and I don't have all kids here every day, so the process of elimination is a bit harder.

Just because I have a smaller home and don't have 8 pack and plays doesn't mean I shouldn't or can't be doing daycare. And no, I don't have 8 kids here. I'm licensed for 10, but I'm not comfortable with that many.

Two weeks ago I went to a child care conference. They talked about biting, hitting, and other toddler/child behavior. It is normal, and they stressed that. That does not mean I am sweeping it under the rug or letting it go without investigating. I am doing what I can. I know it needs to be dealt with. My problem is right now that I don't know who the other biter is.

Since my son has also been a victim of hitting AND biting, I think I know who the other biter is. No biting has happened today, and the other two boys are not here.
Well you know what works best for you and what works best for your kids and parents. If you feel strongly that the biting should be considered "normal" and that there are times when you can't have all eyes on them and that's to be understood then you will have biting and the parents will either understand and consider it expected and normal or they will protest, question, and ultimately leave.

If you, your state and your day care parents believe that it is normal and expected to have brief times of no visual supervision when the kids are up and that biting is a normal behavior that is to be expected then you will be fine. A little detective work to find out who is the aggressor and you will be square.

Other than matching bite marks with each kids mouth I don't know how to tell what kid bit what kid with your age group. It's going to be very hard to figure it out.
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mom2many 04:04 PM 08-15-2011
I feel for you! Having a biter is horrible and all you can do is watch them all very carefully! It is normal for 1-2 year olds to lash out like this, when they don't have the verbal skills to communicate and it can also be something the others will copy, which compounds the whole problem. I have had to deal with this many times over the years and because it is such a serious thing, you do have to be extra vigilant.

Recently I had a 1 yo. dcg start biting---sometimes totally unprovoked! The first time it happened I was so shocked and it totally took me by surprise! I ended up bringing her with me whenever I needed to leave the room...couldn't trust her at all! Fortunately in most cases, this phase is usually short lived.

Here in CA I'm not sure licensing would agree with the suggestions of using confinement equipment. It's strictly forbidden and against CA regs to use pack and plays or high chairs for confinement purposes and I was told they will cite a provider for using them in this way!

I would also like to add that sometimes it doesn't matter how careful you supervise the kids! Years ago, I was a Sunday school teacher in a one year old classroom. We had a ratio of 1 adult for every 3 children. We had a known biter and actually assigned one specific adult to watch over just that one child. While the "biter" sat on that adult's lap, another child happened to walk by and right then and there, the child got bit before it could be stopped. At this point, we were forced to tell the parents that their child could no longer be in the Sunday school classroom, because even with extra precautions, we could not ensure the safety of the others.

Good Luck to you! Hopefully this will be over soon.
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Cat Herder 04:20 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by mom2many:
Here in CA I'm not sure licensing would agree with the suggestions of using confinement equipment. It's strictly forbidden and against CA regs to use pack and plays or high chairs for confinement purposes and I was told they will cite a provider for using them in this way!
If it is for punishment, yes...confinement is "bad" according to regs. It is the same, here.

If it is to keep a child safe from a biter so a pregnant provider can get to the restroom MANY more times a day than an average provider...then I am pretty sure they would side with the kids safety.

This is a temporary solution to a problem that requires constant supervision.
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mom2many 05:12 PM 08-15-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
If it is for punishment, yes...confinement is "bad" according to regs. It is the same, here.

If it is to keep a child safe from a biter so a pregnant provider can get to the restroom MANY more times a day than an average provider...then I am pretty sure they would side with the kids safety.

This is a temporary solution to a problem that requires constant supervision.
Maybe this is an acceptable means of ensuring safety in some areas, but I specifically discussed this with the last analyst I had. She happened to mention that they are instructed to cite any providers using any type of means to contain or restrain an infant or toddler such as a high chair or pack and play even if it is to ensure that the child is safe from harm. This was indeed totally crazy and shocking to me...but that's what I was told!
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littlemommy 07:14 AM 08-16-2011
Originally Posted by mom2many:
Maybe this is an acceptable means of ensuring safety in some areas, but I specifically discussed this with the last analyst I had. She happened to mention that they are instructed to cite any providers using any type of means to contain or restrain an infant or toddler such as a high chair or pack and play even if it is to ensure that the child is safe from harm. This was indeed totally crazy and shocking to me...but that's what I was told!
I'm not completely against separating all the kids when I have to go to the bathroom, it's just hard with the set up and group that I have. All kids are mobile, most could get out of pack n plays or high chairs. If I have them all come in the bathroom with me, they would all get frustrated because we'd all be smashed in there like sardines.

I know my son is one of the biters, so he goes with me whenever I leave the room. I know the biting only happens when the other 2 boys are here, so that narrows it down and I should be able to figure it out this week.
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littlemommy 07:17 AM 08-16-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Well you know what works best for you and what works best for your kids and parents. If you feel strongly that the biting should be considered "normal" and that there are times when you can't have all eyes on them and that's to be understood then you will have biting and the parents will either understand and consider it expected and normal or they will protest, question, and ultimately leave.

If you, your state and your day care parents believe that it is normal and expected to have brief times of no visual supervision when the kids are up and that biting is a normal behavior that is to be expected then you will be fine. A little detective work to find out who is the aggressor and you will be square.

Other than matching bite marks with each kids mouth I don't know how to tell what kid bit what kid with your age group. It's going to be very hard to figure it out.
Even if I was able to "confine" everyone, that doesn't mean the biting would automatically stop. Aggressive toddler behavior happens even when the provider is right there. Like another person said, it can happen when you are right there and happens so fast you can't stop it. So yes, it could happen even if everyone was in the bathroom with me.

I will figure this out. I'm about 90% sure who the other biter is, so that will make it easier to solve the problem.
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Tags:biter, provider - own child, separate areas, shadow, supervision - active vs. passive
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