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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Discrimination at Jo-Ann's Fabrics and Crafts
nannyde 01:09 PM 01-11-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
No, I'm not teaching now. I'm in a second degree program working on my BSN. I still have several discount cards and my license is active, but I don't really have a use for them - I was just joking with Nan.


I have a BSN and I don't even WANT a discount from JoAnne's. I'm not crafty.

I want a discount from Applebees cuz I like their cheese sticks. Now THAT I would fight for.
Unregistered 01:10 PM 01-11-2011
OMG. Can you either shop at JoAnn's fabric or don't shop at JoAnn's Fabric. It's JoAnn Fabrics choice to give the teacher discount on their terms of what they consider a teacher. Get over it already.
Crystal 01:23 PM 01-11-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
OMG. Can you either shop at JoAnn's fabric or don't shop at JoAnn's Fabric. It's JoAnn Fabrics choice to give the teacher discount on their terms of what they consider a teacher. Get over it already.
That's fair. But, if you are going to participate in a discussion, your opinion would hold more weight if we knew who you were.

And, you can certainly make that choice for yourself, but not for the other providers who are insulted that a company would determine that they are not considered valuable assets to the field of educating children.
jen 01:31 PM 01-11-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I don't take that personally. And, I hear ya. I can see where there would be some controversy. The thing is though, many of the student's in this program do have the coursework behind them, but they do not hold a B.A. I am close in having that many units. I think it comes down to be able to prove your competence in the field. If you can demonstarte competence, then I think there should be some allowance for life experience. And, this is a Professional Degree....it will allow me to teach at the college level.

One thing I find funny about it is you will, quite often, hear providers complaining that experience is more valuable than education, but when something like this comes up, they'll decide that you really do need the education, rather than the experience. Especially if it is another provider they do not care for who is embracing the opportunity. (don't take that personally, it wasn't directed at you)
I actually don't believe that you do need a degree to be a very effective daycare provider. For me, the Master's degree issue is different can of worms.

A second issue that comes to mind is this: I do have a BA and I can tell you that without a doubt, upper level courses are far more challenging. Individuals who attend community college don't participate in those classes, and therefore don't have the same level of education. I'm sure that you will do fine, but many, many others will be woefully ill prepared for Master's level courses without the benefit of those upper level classes.
Blackcat31 01:38 PM 01-11-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
NOT kidding. I've read every study I can get my hands on. I've even read years of the Head Start data... that's mind numbing. I should get an honorary Masters degree JUST for reading the Head Start research.

I've been looking for it and I can't find it. If anyone here knows of any longitudinal studies on preschool that do NOT focus on poor kids or poor African American male children PLEASE post it.

I want to see PROOF that children who attend full academic preschool programs between the ages of three and five show a significant difference in measurable standardized testing outcomes in math, reading, science, social studies, and writing beyond the entry into second grade.

NOT poor kids. I'm specifically interested in lower middle class, middle class, upper middle class, and upper class children.
Does this count? I have not been reading up on it but I googled it and found this; http://nieer.org/resources/factsheets/13.pdf or http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1116081424.htm
Crystal 02:00 PM 01-11-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Does this count? I have not been reading up on it but I googled it and found this; http://nieer.org/resources/factsheets/13.pdf or http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1116081424.htm
Yes, I would say so. Funny, I used alot of this information in a Universal Preschool study I did for a class last year.
nannyde 02:26 PM 01-11-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Does this count? I have not been reading up on it but I googled it and found this; http://nieer.org/resources/factsheets/13.pdf or http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1116081424.htm
Nope

I do love this though:
Some research has found that long hours of child care beginning in the early years of life can produce modest negative effects on children’s behavior when they enter school. These effects are small and may be temporary.



I'm looking for standardized testing scores in reading, math, science, social studies, graduation rates, etc.

She analyzed the link between participation in preschool -- described as any classroom-based program targeted to 4-year-olds, including nursery schools, preschool centers, and prekindergarten programs -- and how children did on an assessment of literacy when they were 4.

The second one: On average, all poor children, regardless of their race, seemed to benefit substantially from taking part in preschool the year before kindergarten. For White children, the benefits of preschool were inversely related to their socioeconomic status, with benefits largely limited to poor children
nannyde 02:27 PM 01-11-2011
Originally Posted by jen:
I actually don't believe that you do need a degree to be a very effective daycare provider. For me, the Master's degree issue is different can of worms.

A second issue that comes to mind is this: I do have a BA and I can tell you that without a doubt, upper level courses are far more challenging. Individuals who attend community college don't participate in those classes, and therefore don't have the same level of education. I'm sure that you will do fine, but many, many others will be woefully ill prepared for Master's level courses without the benefit of those upper level classes.
What she said
QualiTcare 07:31 PM 01-11-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
DISCLAIMER: I am only using myself as an example here because I do not have anyone here to use as an example, as I do not know most member’s level of education. I am NOT using myself as an example to indicate that I am better in any way. I realize that there are MANY providers who have far higher levels of education and qualifications thatn I do, however I do not have those provider’s information.

QCare, I agree with you about the work and commitment that "teachers" put into their education. But, I don't believe it is necessary to have that B.A. distinction to define a teacher.

You say " why not just go to school for appx. 1,000 hours per year for 4 years straight?"

Well, I have done that. I don't have my B.A. but I have done that.

FTR, I may only have an AA, but I have more than 90 ECE and Gen Ed units....only 36 are required to hold an AA. I just chose to continue my ed at the community college level rather that the University, mostly because the CC is less than a mile from my house. I am however starting school in two weeks, working on my Master's Degree. In addition to this I have more than 30 CEU'S and 100's of hours in trainings via workshops and seminars.

I am a Mentor Teacher for the CECMP, a "lab school" if you will for students in the practicum phase of their college studies. Most recently I have been selected to develop and present workshops for the Director Mentor program.

I conduct Environmental Rating Scale Assessments for our local R&R and work as an independent consultant for Head Start as well.
I have had an article published by the CAEYC and presented workshops for them too.

So, I am MORE than qualified to be a TEACHER and am proud to present myself as such. And, MANY other providers have done as much or WAY MORE than I have...they deserve that TITLE as well. Yet, Joann'es, as well as a FEW others feel the feel they have the authority to define what a teacher is.

In the end, if it really mattered what Joanne's, you, and my favorite nemesis Nannyde (kidding ) thought, I'd be insulted And, in the end, Joanne’s can choose to exclude (here’s a term for you instead of teacher) Early Childhood Educators from receiving their small discount, and in the end Early Childhood Educator’s can choose to exclude Joanne’s from their list of stores to purchase supplies from.
I've said before - anyone who teaches someone a skill can be called a teacher. There are dance teachers, piano teachers, etc. In this case with Jo-ann's who is OBVIOUSLY talking about a PROFESSIONAL teacher as defined by the Department of Education, providers are abusing the word.

It doesn't matter how much education you have, if you haven't taken the Praxis exams and passed them, you can not step foot inside a classroom with the exception of substitute teachers and in some states, preschool. You can't even STUDENT TEACH under the supervision of a licensed teacher if you don't pass those exams. I know several people who were not able to student teach because they couldn't pass either all or a portion of the exam series. Instead, they did a practicum in a childcare or preschool setting. They still earned their "Early Childhood Development" degree (which is kind of pointless IMO) but not a license so they couldn't teach. "Early Childhood Education" and "Early Childhood Educator" are also misused technically. The degree is in "Early Childhood DEVELOPMENT" and when you are licensed to teach, you are an "Early Childhood EDUCATOR"

It's not about who Jo-ann's or I deem to be a teacher. What matters is who the Department of Education considers to be a teacher. Just like the Board of Nursing deems who is or who is not a nurse.

I took a CNA course hoping it would give me an advantage in nursing school. Do you think they gave a crap AT ALL that I was educated when it came time to LEARN how to wash your hands or brush hair?! Nope, just like they don't care in nursing school if you've been a CNA or a paramedic for 20 years and saved 100 lives. You're on the same playing field as the zit faced 18 year old beside you who has never been to a funeral, much less seen a corpse or saved a life. I mean they can feel like a nurse and call themselves a nurse all day long, but neither the board of nursing, employers, nor the general public is going to recognize it, so it means squat. Same with self proclaimed teachers. You can care for children for 20 years and call yourself a teacher all day long, but the DOE nor the general public is going to recognize it so providers are really just kidding themselves. In fact, this big "controversy" isn't really a controversy at all.

The only way the perception of providers as teachers or professionals is going to change is when the standards are higher. BUT providers don't WANT higher standards! They say they want this so called respect that teachers get, they want the perks, and they want the title. What they don't want is to sacrifice the time it takes to be a "real teacher" and they definitely don't want the loans that go along with it. I am really over hearing, "well, i have a degree in another field." Ok, and? I have a degree, and it meant NOTHING when I decided to be a nurse. What providers should be talking about is how CHILD CARE PROVIDERS can change society's views about them, and that's something to take up with Department of Education - not some craft store.
Lucy 07:37 PM 01-11-2011
Michael - I vote to close this topic.
nannyde 11:28 AM 01-12-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
I am really over hearing, "well, i have a degree in another field." Ok, and? I have a degree, and it meant NOTHING
REALLY great post.

You are right about this. If I stepped foot into the State of Georgia today I could not legally start a home day care. I have 31 years of child care, a BSN, and I'm a RN but they wouldn't have ME. Now I could start a Center and be a Center Director but I could not be alone with kids in my home.

The point is that Georgia gets to decide what is good enough for their kids and JoAnne's gets to decide what's good enough for their pocketbook. If they change their minds then let them change it to honor HOME DAYCARE providers or get the business of HOME DAYCARE providers.

I'm not insulted by Georgia and I'm not insulted by JoAnne's. I get both of their reasoning whether I agree with it or not.
nannyde 11:31 AM 01-12-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
In the end, if it really mattered what Joanne's, you, and my favorite nemesis Nannyde (kidding ) thought, I'd be insulted
Oh I'm not your nemesis. I'm your BFF. You'll see that in about ten/fifteen years from now.
mugglegirl 12:43 PM 01-12-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
yeah, i am! apparently, several people are, but i'm ALMOST the only one with an opposing view. personally, for the zillionth time, i don't think it has jack to do with status. i think it has to do with the fact that providers are business owners and can write off the items as an expense.

secondly, i'm a teacher, and it's annoying enough that this is one of the only professions in the world where when you tell someone what you do for a living, they follow up with 10 more questions to clarify BECAUSE the word "teacher" has been abused so badly by childcare providers who aren't proud enough of their own profession to say, "I'm a CHILDCARE PROVIDER!"

That may be the EXACT reason they have that policy. I for one, don't shop there now, so I don't think getting a discount would make me start shopping there. Right now, I only have school age kids after school and in the evenings, so honestly, I don't do much teaching, other than the social kind.

However, I will say that I've never called my self a "teacher" either. I'm a Licensed Childcare Provider or Childcare Owner. I put more emphasis on the fact that I'm licensed and that I own my own business.
Blackcat31 02:09 PM 01-12-2011
Okay, I may be opening up the can of worms again but when this thread first appeared, I went to the JoAnn's web-site and signed up for the Teachers Rewards program ...just to see what would happen....and guess what? I haven't got a rewards card or anything but I got a 20% off coupon in my e-mail today!!! Good for anything in the store including sale items so go figure! If they don't approve my request for the teacher reward program, at least I got a coupon!
QualiTcare 02:17 PM 01-12-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Okay, I may be opening up the can of worms again but when this thread first appeared, I went to the JoAnn's web-site and signed up for the Teachers Rewards program ...just to see what would happen....and guess what? I haven't got a rewards card or anything but I got a 20% off coupon in my e-mail today!!! Good for anything in the store including sale items so go figure! If they don't approve my request for the teacher reward program, at least I got a coupon!
i've seen several providers say they DO get the discount. let us know if yours gets approved!
Childminder 05:19 PM 01-12-2011
I have a discount card, I get 40% and 50% off coupons on line and in the mail AND my daughter, that works there, gets additional 15%. Yea me!
BentleysBands 06:03 PM 01-12-2011
I signed up for their mailing list years ago and Just use that
TomCopeland 06:46 PM 01-12-2011
There's a new blog post "Jo-Ann Fabrics and Crafts Stumbles in Social Media Dust" by Elana Centor at : http://funnybusiness.typepad.com/
dEHmom 08:28 AM 01-15-2011
I've read a few of these posts, but find it REALLY annoying seeing the thread pop up on the unread messages constantly.
I think this thread will never end, and has gone completely off topic. I see some people have voted on the thread to be closed as well.

Bottom line, daycare providers, unless in an educational setting, are simply that. Mothers and Fathers are teachers, does this mean they should get a discount at Jo-Anne's Fabrics? No. Everyone is a teacher at some point in their life if not at every point.

Maybe some feel the store is discriminating, but I don't think it's fair that this whole mess has started. I FEEL that the store has every right to choose whether or not they want to offer this discount. And I dont' think it's up to any of us to say otherwise. We may feel that we deserve it, we may think that we deserve it, but we don't get to demand it.

This is no different to me than the parents who feel that they should get discounts or not have to pay for certain aspects of childcare. WE as the owner of the business get to decide whether or not we want to let that child take a sick day or not free of charge. WE decide that we want paid holidays or not. WE decide if we want to let them have free vacation days or not. WE are business owners and get to make our own rules and regulations regarding the services we offer and any discounts we choose.

AND ultimately it is our choice if we want to shop there or not. If we feel they are discriminating against us, then don't give them your business GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If you decide that even though you want the discount, you'd still like to shop there, then stop complaining.
QualiTcare 09:00 AM 01-15-2011
Originally Posted by Baybee0585:
I've read a few of these posts, but find it REALLY annoying seeing the thread pop up on the unread messages constantly.
I think this thread will never end, and has gone completely off topic. I see some people have voted on the thread to be closed as well.

Bottom line, daycare providers, unless in an educational setting, are simply that. Mothers and Fathers are teachers, does this mean they should get a discount at Jo-Anne's Fabrics? No. Everyone is a teacher at some point in their life if not at every point.

Maybe some feel the store is discriminating, but I don't think it's fair that this whole mess has started. I FEEL that the store has every right to choose whether or not they want to offer this discount. And I dont' think it's up to any of us to say otherwise. We may feel that we deserve it, we may think that we deserve it, but we don't get to demand it.

This is no different to me than the parents who feel that they should get discounts or not have to pay for certain aspects of childcare. WE as the owner of the business get to decide whether or not we want to let that child take a sick day or not free of charge. WE decide that we want paid holidays or not. WE decide if we want to let them have free vacation days or not. WE are business owners and get to make our own rules and regulations regarding the services we offer and any discounts we choose.

AND ultimately it is our choice if we want to shop there or not. If we feel they are discriminating against us, then don't give them your business GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If you decide that even though you want the discount, you'd still like to shop there, then stop complaining.
it has gone off topic, but the new topic which seems to be preschool initiatives doesn't look like it's problematic to me. you don't have to click on a thread when it pops up as unread if it's something you're not interested in.
QualiTcare 09:19 AM 01-15-2011
Um, that's deep haha.

I don't think it's a good idea to draw attention to a cooled down argument by starting a new thread, but I'm not a stickler about goin off topic unless the OP has a problem bc that's what happens when having discussions.
dEHmom 09:24 AM 01-15-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
Um, that's deep haha.

I don't think it's a good idea to draw attention to a cooled down argument by starting a new thread, but I'm not a stickler about goin off topic unless the OP has a problem bc that's what happens when having discussions.
Huh?
Maybe you misunderstood or I wasn't clear...
All I meant in the last post was that if a topic about discrimination at a store as veered off into a topic about programs that benefit different levels of income or anything else other than discrimination at a store, I think it's worth while to say "lets start a thread about this" and then start one. It would not be drawing attention to a cooled off debate. If anything I'd think that continuing to post about an unrelated topic in this forum would be drawing attention to the already cooled down argument. And anyone who isn't interested in reading about the discrimination is losing out on the topic now being discussed in the unrelated thread.

Also, just pointing out the fact, that I was posting about the original topic, since that is what this topic was initially about. I understand that any discussion always leads into a new one, but I just feel when it is so completely unrelated to the original post, it should be taken and put into it's own thread, that is all. I'm not trying to be difficult or anything.
QualiTcare 10:07 AM 01-15-2011
No, I understood. That's just not something that bugs me. Anyhow, I started a new pre-k thread. It's my goal to make chat lives complete. Lol.
TomCopeland 10:40 AM 01-15-2011
Today Jo-Ann Fabric and Craft changed its policy and now includes family child care providers in Teacher Rewards Discount program!

I've written a blog post on this at www.tomcopelandblog.com.

Thanks to all the providers who were active in this effort. It was primarily a social media campaign that made the difference.
QualiTcare 10:44 AM 01-15-2011
haaaallelujah!

which store shall we target next?

i see they expanded it to include post-secondary teachers also.

i looked at facebook and there are now people on there saying how about nurses? EMT? retired teachers? substitutes? how about speech therapists? occupational therapists? nursing home directors? what about the military?! lol
dEHmom 11:03 AM 01-15-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
haaaallelujah!

which store shall we target next?

i see they expanded it to include post-secondary teachers also.

i looked at facebook and there are now people on there saying how about nurses? EMT? retired teachers? substitutes? how about speech therapists? occupational therapists? nursing home directors? what about the military?! lol
Walmart! lol
Jennifer91 12:17 AM 01-24-2011
Originally Posted by mac60:
Our teachers get paid very well here in the public school system, excellent working conditions, have top of the line benefits, have approx 4 mo a year off when you add up the summer vacations, Spring break, Christmas break, plus all the other holidays.....it is rediculous to say they are underpaid. Seriously, they have it made.
WOW! Give it a try sometime if it sounds so easy. Not sure how this got on teacher bashing, but if you think it's the greatest job out there, why not try going to Junior Achievement and volunteering some time teaching in a classroom.

My kids teacher makes about $56,000 plus very good benifits... he has been teaching for 15+ years; has his masters +; has 28 kids in his class and MOST importantly, has to deal with disrespectful parents like some of you on this post who have no idea what it is like to teach. It is a good job, yes, but come on "They have it made"?
mac60 03:46 AM 01-24-2011
Originally Posted by Jennifer91:
WOW! Give it a try sometime if it sounds so easy. Not sure how this got on teacher bashing, but if you think it's the greatest job out there, why not try going to Junior Achievement and volunteering some time teaching in a classroom.

My kids teacher makes about $56,000 plus very good benifits... he has been teaching for 15+ years; has his masters +; has 28 kids in his class and MOST importantly, has to deal with disrespectful parents like some of you on this post who have no idea what it is like to teach. It is a good job, yes, but come on "They have it made"?
Please don't put "your words" in my mouth, not sure where you got teacher bashing as it didn't happen in my post. It was only a simple statement. And we don't have a Junior Achievement anymore, and I DO volunteer, weekly at the nursing home. And yes, teacher's in our district definately "have it made". And please, don't insinuate I am disrepectful, you don't know me. And lastly, just because someone has a different opinion, a different idea, a different way of doing something, does NOT make them disrespectful.
mac60 03:47 AM 01-24-2011
Originally Posted by Baybee0585:
I've read a few of these posts, but find it REALLY annoying seeing the thread pop up on the unread messages constantly.
I think this thread will never end, and has gone completely off topic. I see some people have voted on the thread to be closed as well.

Bottom line, daycare providers, unless in an educational setting, are simply that. Mothers and Fathers are teachers, does this mean they should get a discount at Jo-Anne's Fabrics? No. Everyone is a teacher at some point in their life if not at every point.

Maybe some feel the store is discriminating, but I don't think it's fair that this whole mess has started. I FEEL that the store has every right to choose whether or not they want to offer this discount. And I dont' think it's up to any of us to say otherwise. We may feel that we deserve it, we may think that we deserve it, but we don't get to demand it.

This is no different to me than the parents who feel that they should get discounts or not have to pay for certain aspects of childcare. WE as the owner of the business get to decide whether or not we want to let that child take a sick day or not free of charge. WE decide that we want paid holidays or not. WE decide if we want to let them have free vacation days or not. WE are business owners and get to make our own rules and regulations regarding the services we offer and any discounts we choose.

AND ultimately it is our choice if we want to shop there or not. If we feel they are discriminating against us, then don't give them your business GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If you decide that even though you want the discount, you'd still like to shop there, then stop complaining.
Very well written.
Michael 02:58 PM 01-24-2011
Consider it closed.
Tags:irs, jo-ann fabrics, master teacher permit, preschool, teacher rewards
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