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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Close to Terming! Need Advice
TXhomedaycare 09:52 AM 12-17-2015
I have a dcb that is 3 but will be 4 yo next week that is essentially just spoiled but he has become a large problem. My issue is that he has at least 2 or 3 large tantrums throughout the day everyday and I can't take it a try longer. By large tantrum I mean he gets upset because he does not get his way (wants the toy everyone else has 99% of the time or won't follow directions and wants to do things on his terms) he kicks things or throws things and I move him to the hallway or away from the toys and others and then he yells at the top of his lungs for 15 or 30 minutes until he is exhausted. He is otherwise a good child but I am tI red of this daily ritual. I have sent him home 2 times and if he does it while anyone is sleeping I take him outside and tell him he cannot come in until he stops but I find myself neglecting the group for him and his problems way to often. He talks in whine almost all day and by Friday I have him napping and improved but on Monday he is a hot mess again. I have talked to his mother (she is always wanting advice, that she does not listen to 
) Her excuse is that she is a first time mom and she recently had a divorce in which she moved out with her husband and about 3 months later moved in with her new boyfriend. This child has no schedule at all and his mom keeps saying she needs to work on that. His mom has told me he has been acting out at home as well (cursing the new boyfriend out and not following directions) but all she does is make excuses for him. She try to let him bring a toy or hat or something everyday that he does not need despite my multiple requests to stop. I hate giving up on him (I have already given up on dcm). Today is the first day that I am ready to term. A lot of this is venting but I really need advice. I have been watching him for a little over a year now and I need an exit strategy or a better way to handle him because I have tried what feels like everything.
) Her excuse is that she is a first time mom and she recently had a divorce in which she moved out with her husband and about 3 months later moved in with her new boyfriend. This child has no schedule at all and his mom keeps saying she needs to work on that. His mom has told me he has been acting out at home as well (cursing the new boyfriend out and not following directions) but all she does is make excuses for him. She try to let him bring a toy or hat or something everyday that he does not need despite my multiple requests to stop. I hate giving up on him (I have already given up on dcm). Today is the first day that I am ready to term. A lot of this is venting but I really need advice. I have been watching him for a little over a year now and I need an exit strategy or a better way to handle him because I have tried what feels like everything.
Ariana 09:59 AM 12-17-2015
I had a child like this and after a LONG 7 months I just had to term. It came to a head for me when I had gotten caterpillars and we were all so excited when they turned into butterflies as we had watched them grow for so long. Well on the day we were to release them in the garden this kid was having major tantrums and I was completely stressed out. She completely ruined the day for everyone. I told mom that day that I was done.
Unfortunately for kids like this there is only so much you can do. Some parents just don't get it. They don't understand that they have a problem and that as this kid grows the problem will just get worse. It sounds like you are doing everything you can so you either keep on doing the same and enduring or term.
Unfortunately for kids like this there is only so much you can do. Some parents just don't get it. They don't understand that they have a problem and that as this kid grows the problem will just get worse. It sounds like you are doing everything you can so you either keep on doing the same and enduring or term.
Annalee 10:04 AM 12-17-2015
From a recent TERMINATOR
I realize now how good daycare can be when I took action. Much much much much better without the terminated family! Good luck!
I realize now how good daycare can be when I took action. Much much much much better without the terminated family! Good luck!
childcaremom 10:07 AM 12-17-2015
Been there and done that.
Dear Dcm,
The last day I am able to provide care for dcb is xxx.
Dcp
I would just hand that to her. Mom won't be surprised. You have had this convo with her before. I would only offer a brief statement if she wanted an explanation as to why. I would not enter into a discussion with her over it.
Dear Dcm,
The last day I am able to provide care for dcb is xxx.
Dcp
I would just hand that to her. Mom won't be surprised. You have had this convo with her before. I would only offer a brief statement if she wanted an explanation as to why. I would not enter into a discussion with her over it.
Play Care 10:11 AM 12-17-2015
Originally Posted by childcaremom:
Been there and done that.
Dear Dcm,
The last day I am able to provide care for dcb is xxx.
Dcp
I would just hand that to her. Mom won't be surprised. You have had this convo with her before. I would only offer a brief statement if she wanted an explanation as to why. I would not enter into a discussion with her over it.
This.Been there and done that.
Dear Dcm,
The last day I am able to provide care for dcb is xxx.
Dcp
I would just hand that to her. Mom won't be surprised. You have had this convo with her before. I would only offer a brief statement if she wanted an explanation as to why. I would not enter into a discussion with her over it.
childcaremom 10:11 AM 12-17-2015
Originally Posted by Annalee:
From a recent TERMINATORI realize now how good daycare can be when I took action. Much much much much better without the terminated family! Good luck!
From a recent TERMINATOR
I realize now how good daycare can be when I took action. Much much much much better without the terminated family! Good luck!
It's been 3 weeks since I ended care for a dcg for different reasons and the day is SOOOOO much more enjoyable. I love my job again.
rosieteddy 10:45 AM 12-17-2015
I to would term.You have tried to talk with the parent to no avail.Hand her the note tomorrow and just think how great the New Year will be.
Thriftylady 10:53 AM 12-17-2015
Sounds to me like mom needs to stop making excuses and get her stuff in line and get her child under control. I wouldn't look at it as giving up on him. You can't make any progress if mom isn't trying to make progress at home. If it is affecting the rest of the group, then it is for the greater good to term. You may find you are a much happier provider afterwards.
Rockgirl 11:01 AM 12-17-2015
I was at that point earlier this year with a 3 yr old boy. I was spending a huge part of my day dealing with his behavior. His mom is a teacher and kept him home summers....I made up my mind that I would term at the end of the school year. Before I had the chance, she told me he would be starting preschool in the fall, so I didn't have to term--whew!
I think from reading your post, you are there. Once you hand off the papers, it's such a relief--that light at the end of the tunnel becomes visible!
I think from reading your post, you are there. Once you hand off the papers, it's such a relief--that light at the end of the tunnel becomes visible!
spedmommy4 12:20 PM 12-17-2015
Based on the responses, I don't think mine is going to be popular. However, I feel like this is important information to share. I recently got this in an email: http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=2...B-03A9B3743667
The summary version is that kids are getting kicked out of preschool and childcare settings a lot. Boys are more than 4 times more likely than girls. I also recently attended a webinar on behavior where the presenter said that, in most cases, a child's behavior difficulties begin in preschool. And usually the child and behaviors get passed on to the next teacher, and the next with no real intervention.
Now, I don't know about all of you, but I have seen an enormous spike in troublesome childhood behaviors over the last 15 years. I have also seen a huge increase in parents who just don't seem to know how to discipline or be consistent. And based on the consistent increase, I fear it won't improve.
I know that sometimes terming is necessary. I had to term a 4 year old a few months back that needed services above and beyond what I could provide. But . . . I have a few tips for this situation and hope they help. Maybe someone else will have some other great tips too.
* try choices. "Dcb, you can do this or this." Don't give other options. Don't engage him beyond offering a choice.
* model appropriate social skills. "Dcb, ask Johnny for the toy." It is really important during the initial modeling phase that the positive strategies work. Dcb needs to learn that asking nicely gets the toy and being mean gets nothing. If other child says, no, you need a back up. For example, Suzy said no, you can get a timer or play with this other toy. (Again putting ball back in his court)
* ignore tantrums. Instruct other kids to ignore. Say out loud, we can play with dcb when he is done crying.
*if he is having difficulty following directions. Try giving short,simple clear, directions. Give them one at a time. If its refusal to follow directions, you can try a first/then strategy. For example, first you have to put on shoes and then we can go outside.
Hope this helps.
Sorry about the soapbox. My daughter was a three year old preschool rebel so I have a soft spot for the challenging kids now.
The summary version is that kids are getting kicked out of preschool and childcare settings a lot. Boys are more than 4 times more likely than girls. I also recently attended a webinar on behavior where the presenter said that, in most cases, a child's behavior difficulties begin in preschool. And usually the child and behaviors get passed on to the next teacher, and the next with no real intervention.
Now, I don't know about all of you, but I have seen an enormous spike in troublesome childhood behaviors over the last 15 years. I have also seen a huge increase in parents who just don't seem to know how to discipline or be consistent. And based on the consistent increase, I fear it won't improve.
I know that sometimes terming is necessary. I had to term a 4 year old a few months back that needed services above and beyond what I could provide. But . . . I have a few tips for this situation and hope they help. Maybe someone else will have some other great tips too.
* try choices. "Dcb, you can do this or this." Don't give other options. Don't engage him beyond offering a choice.
* model appropriate social skills. "Dcb, ask Johnny for the toy." It is really important during the initial modeling phase that the positive strategies work. Dcb needs to learn that asking nicely gets the toy and being mean gets nothing. If other child says, no, you need a back up. For example, Suzy said no, you can get a timer or play with this other toy. (Again putting ball back in his court)
* ignore tantrums. Instruct other kids to ignore. Say out loud, we can play with dcb when he is done crying.
*if he is having difficulty following directions. Try giving short,simple clear, directions. Give them one at a time. If its refusal to follow directions, you can try a first/then strategy. For example, first you have to put on shoes and then we can go outside.
Hope this helps.
Sorry about the soapbox. My daughter was a three year old preschool rebel so I have a soft spot for the challenging kids now.
Ariana 01:14 PM 12-17-2015
Spedmommy4 I don't think any of us are quick to term. In my case I was at it for 7 months and in OP's case over a year!
I understand where you are coming from but a lot of times the parents at home are either too controlling or not paying enough attention to their kids. Kids are being raised by the "me me me" generation and then those kids come to us looking for the attention they aren't getting at home. The problem should not fall on us. Research shows that the more time children spend in childcare the worse behaviors become but that it is the parents behavior that is the best indicator of childhood behavioral problems, not daycare providers.
I did everything you suggested but nothing worked. I also wanted my daycare kids to ignore the tantrums but my own daughter would get so stressed by the chaos she would cry. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
I understand where you are coming from but a lot of times the parents at home are either too controlling or not paying enough attention to their kids. Kids are being raised by the "me me me" generation and then those kids come to us looking for the attention they aren't getting at home. The problem should not fall on us. Research shows that the more time children spend in childcare the worse behaviors become but that it is the parents behavior that is the best indicator of childhood behavioral problems, not daycare providers.
I did everything you suggested but nothing worked. I also wanted my daycare kids to ignore the tantrums but my own daughter would get so stressed by the chaos she would cry. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
Blackcat31 01:17 PM 12-17-2015
Originally Posted by Ariana:
Spedmommy4 I don't think any of us are quick to term. In my case I was at it for 7 months and in OP's case over a year!
I understand where you are coming from but a lot of times the parents at home are either too controlling or not paying enough attention to their kids. Kids are being raised by the "me me me" generation and then those kids come to us looking for the attention they aren't getting at home. The problem should not fall on us. Research shows that the more time children spend in childcare the worse behaviors become but that it is the parents behavior that is the best indicator of childhood behavioral problems, not daycare providers.
Spedmommy4 I don't think any of us are quick to term. In my case I was at it for 7 months and in OP's case over a year!
I understand where you are coming from but a lot of times the parents at home are either too controlling or not paying enough attention to their kids. Kids are being raised by the "me me me" generation and then those kids come to us looking for the attention they aren't getting at home. The problem should not fall on us. Research shows that the more time children spend in childcare the worse behaviors become but that it is the parents behavior that is the best indicator of childhood behavioral problems, not daycare providers.
While I agree with Spedmommy and the point she is trying to make (my kid was a tough kid too so I understand and empathize with the situation) but IME, when a provider reaches the point of asking for advice on whether to term or not, the answer usually is term simply because as providers most of us already try every single trick in our bags and a few things we never thought we'd resort to doing before finally throwing up our hands and posting.
In other words, I am betting OP already KNOWS she should term but was just wanting some confirmation. Just in case she missed anything
Unregistered 02:21 PM 12-17-2015
Originally Posted by spedmommy4:
Based on the responses, I don't think mine is going to be popular. However, I feel like this is important information to share. I recently got this in an email: http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=2...B-03A9B3743667
The summary version is that kids are getting kicked out of preschool and childcare settings a lot. Boys are more than 4 times more likely than girls. I also recently attended a webinar on behavior where the presenter said that, in most cases, a child's behavior difficulties begin in preschool. And usually the child and behaviors get passed on to the next teacher, and the next with no real intervention.
Now, I don't know about all of you, but I have seen an enormous spike in troublesome childhood behaviors over the last 15 years. I have also seen a huge increase in parents who just don't seem to know how to discipline or be consistent. And based on the consistent increase, I fear it won't improve.
I know that sometimes terming is necessary. I had to term a 4 year old a few months back that needed services above and beyond what I could provide. But . . . I have a few tips for this situation and hope they help. Maybe someone else will have some other great tips too.
* try choices. "Dcb, you can do this or this." Don't give other options. Don't engage him beyond offering a choice.
* model appropriate social skills. "Dcb, ask Johnny for the toy." It is really important during the initial modeling phase that the positive strategies work. Dcb needs to learn that asking nicely gets the toy and being mean gets nothing. If other child says, no, you need a back up. For example, Suzy said no, you can get a timer or play with this other toy. (Again putting ball back in his court)
* ignore tantrums. Instruct other kids to ignore. Say out loud, we can play with dcb when he is done crying.
*if he is having difficulty following directions. Try giving short,simple clear, directions. Give them one at a time. If its refusal to follow directions, you can try a first/then strategy. For example, first you have to put on shoes and then we can go outside.
Hope this helps.
Sorry about the soapbox. My daughter was a three year old preschool rebel so I have a soft spot for the challenging kids now.
Things are getting worse. Parents don't dicipline and we have our hands tied on what we can do, besides term. Society has moved towards this with all the lax in dicipline. I have a 3 year old dcg lime this. I am going CRAZY. I need the $ though so I stick with it. I've tried everthing. When I asked the parents for help they took it as I don't want their daughter here. What do you do?Based on the responses, I don't think mine is going to be popular. However, I feel like this is important information to share. I recently got this in an email: http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=2...B-03A9B3743667
The summary version is that kids are getting kicked out of preschool and childcare settings a lot. Boys are more than 4 times more likely than girls. I also recently attended a webinar on behavior where the presenter said that, in most cases, a child's behavior difficulties begin in preschool. And usually the child and behaviors get passed on to the next teacher, and the next with no real intervention.
Now, I don't know about all of you, but I have seen an enormous spike in troublesome childhood behaviors over the last 15 years. I have also seen a huge increase in parents who just don't seem to know how to discipline or be consistent. And based on the consistent increase, I fear it won't improve.
I know that sometimes terming is necessary. I had to term a 4 year old a few months back that needed services above and beyond what I could provide. But . . . I have a few tips for this situation and hope they help. Maybe someone else will have some other great tips too.
* try choices. "Dcb, you can do this or this." Don't give other options. Don't engage him beyond offering a choice.
* model appropriate social skills. "Dcb, ask Johnny for the toy." It is really important during the initial modeling phase that the positive strategies work. Dcb needs to learn that asking nicely gets the toy and being mean gets nothing. If other child says, no, you need a back up. For example, Suzy said no, you can get a timer or play with this other toy. (Again putting ball back in his court)
* ignore tantrums. Instruct other kids to ignore. Say out loud, we can play with dcb when he is done crying.
*if he is having difficulty following directions. Try giving short,simple clear, directions. Give them one at a time. If its refusal to follow directions, you can try a first/then strategy. For example, first you have to put on shoes and then we can go outside.
Hope this helps.
Sorry about the soapbox. My daughter was a three year old preschool rebel so I have a soft spot for the challenging kids now.
Josiegirl 03:16 PM 12-17-2015
Plus you have to consider what's best for the whole group. If one child is causing so much stress upon the provider and disrupting the group every single day, then what happens to those kids? They get stressed, lose sleep, become irritable, learn bad habits, and eventually might come to hate daycare. It's terrible to think of 'kicking out' a child BUT every single home provider has different dynamics going on in their unique group. If OP's group isn't working for this particular child, maybe the next one will.
I say these things with the thought that so much has already been tried and discussed with dcb and dcm. You also have to wonder if this has been brought to a head because of the dcb's confusion over his family's situation. A young child can't go through something like that without challenges.
I say these things with the thought that so much has already been tried and discussed with dcb and dcm. You also have to wonder if this has been brought to a head because of the dcb's confusion over his family's situation. A young child can't go through something like that without challenges.
spedmommy4 03:28 PM 12-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Things are getting worse. Parents don't dicipline and we have our hands tied on what we can do, besides term. Society has moved towards this with all the lax in dicipline. I have a 3 year old dcg lime this. I am going CRAZY. I need the $ though so I stick with it. I've tried everthing. When I asked the parents for help they took it as I don't want their daughter here. What do you do?
Exactly!!! I have a set of parents in their early 20's. They told me at a parent-teacher conference, "we just want our kids to like us." Things are getting worse. Parents don't dicipline and we have our hands tied on what we can do, besides term. Society has moved towards this with all the lax in dicipline. I have a 3 year old dcg lime this. I am going CRAZY. I need the $ though so I stick with it. I've tried everthing. When I asked the parents for help they took it as I don't want their daughter here. What do you do?
I believe that kids can learn that each environment has different expectations. I have parents who enforce the same rules that I do and parents who don't. I don't have any more significant behaviors from kids from "no rules" homes than I do from the consistent parents.I spend a lot of time teaching the rules, teaching social skills, etc. A lot of what I use comes from the prevent, teach, reinforce handbook for young children. It was designed for special Ed but I see so much outrageous behavior in early childhood classrooms and childcares that it tends to work well for those setting too.
Based on what I've read in the forums, recruitment of new children is a huge challenge all over the country. And although I know sometimes you have to term, I love that we have this board so that we can share tips and tricks when we run out :-)
Josiegirl 03:44 PM 12-17-2015
Originally Posted by spedmommy4:
Based on what I've read in the forums, recruitment of new children is a huge challenge all over the country. And although I know sometimes you have to term, I love that we have this board so that we can share tips and tricks when we run out :-)
Oh definitely!! Sometimes all it takes is someone to help us think outside the box or remind us of something and it's like a lightbulb goes on for us.Based on what I've read in the forums, recruitment of new children is a huge challenge all over the country. And although I know sometimes you have to term, I love that we have this board so that we can share tips and tricks when we run out :-)
I think the hardest thing is outlasting the 'phase' a child is going through or waiting for our efforts to have an affect on dcks.
I don't know what I'd do without this place.
Febby 05:59 PM 12-17-2015
I find that the children who have had a lot of inconsistent and/or inappropriate discipline/guidance are the most challenging for me. They can be worked with, but you have to undo a lot of previous work.
Personally, I can do a lot in terms of behavior with an individual child. I can still do quite a bit with a small group. But the bigger the group gets, the more difficult it is to manage and correct behavioral issues while still providing for the other children's needs (including their behavior). I personally hate "giving up" on children, but some simply need more help than what can be provided in their current child care environment.
If you're neglecting your group on a regular basis due to a single child, then it's not unfair to tell that child's mom that she needs to find an alternative provider.
Personally, I can do a lot in terms of behavior with an individual child. I can still do quite a bit with a small group. But the bigger the group gets, the more difficult it is to manage and correct behavioral issues while still providing for the other children's needs (including their behavior). I personally hate "giving up" on children, but some simply need more help than what can be provided in their current child care environment.
If you're neglecting your group on a regular basis due to a single child, then it's not unfair to tell that child's mom that she needs to find an alternative provider.
TXhomedaycare 08:22 PM 12-17-2015
Thanks for the advice! The main reason I was struggling with deciding to term was because they say the kids who act out the worst are the ones who need help and I did not want to cause any additional change in his life. This child is smart and is great during structured activities but when it comes to free play he becomes a mess everyday. Mom is no help at all and that is why I am ready to move on. Not only does she make excuses she is constantly giving him new things and not trying to be consistent. BC is right in regards to I knew what I wanted to do but I needed an nudge over the edge because I feel terrible. I have an all boys group ages 1 to 4 and it is high energy almost all day except their 2 hour nap (all my boys are nappers ). I have read books went to special trainings and tried multiple things with him and I truly feel bad for him but I also agree that this is a big issue with a lot of kids especially boys and terming is an option but maybe not the best since at what point does this problem get fixed. My mom and husband always tell me I care too much and this is a time when I don't know how to let go because I am worried what will happen after I term for his sake. I guarantee I am the only stability in this child's life right now. I received a hand written note from his grandmother thanking me for taking such good care of him and that he is always talking about what we do. My biggest concern is neglecting the other kids and me giving too much energy to him and not having enough for the other (which is why I posted this morning. I am exhausted by this daily drama but the other kids don't seem to care). I didn't term today even though I wanted to I just need to figure out if I can keep going down this road or if it is best for all to move on.
). I have read books went to special trainings and tried multiple things with him and I truly feel bad for him but I also agree that this is a big issue with a lot of kids especially boys and terming is an option but maybe not the best since at what point does this problem get fixed. My mom and husband always tell me I care too much and this is a time when I don't know how to let go because I am worried what will happen after I term for his sake. I guarantee I am the only stability in this child's life right now. I received a hand written note from his grandmother thanking me for taking such good care of him and that he is always talking about what we do. My biggest concern is neglecting the other kids and me giving too much energy to him and not having enough for the other (which is why I posted this morning. I am exhausted by this daily drama but the other kids don't seem to care). I didn't term today even though I wanted to I just need to figure out if I can keep going down this road or if it is best for all to move on.
spedmommy4 05:09 AM 12-18-2015
Originally Posted by TXhomedaycare:
Thanks for the advice! The main reason I was struggling with deciding to term was because they say the kids who act out the worst are the ones who need help and I did not want to cause any additional change in his life. This child is smart and is great during structured activities but when it comes to free play he becomes a mess everyday. Mom is no help at all and that is why I am ready to move on. Not only does she make excuses she is constantly giving him new things and not trying to be consistent. BC is right in regards to I knew what I wanted to do but I needed an nudge over the edge because I feel terrible. I have an all boys group ages 1 to 4 and it is high energy almost all day except their 2 hour nap (all my boys are nappers ). I have read books went to special trainings and tried multiple things with him and I truly feel bad for him but I also agree that this is a big issue with a lot of kids especially boys and terming is an option but maybe not the best since at what point does this problem get fixed. My mom and husband always tell me I care too much and this is a time when I don't know how to let go because I am worried what will happen after I term for his sake. I guarantee I am the only stability in this child's life right now. I received a hand written note from his grandmother thanking me for taking such good care of him and that he is always talking about what we do. My biggest concern is neglecting the other kids and me giving too much energy to him and not having enough for the other (which is why I posted this morning. I am exhausted by this daily drama but the other kids don't seem to care). I didn't term today even though I wanted to I just need to figure out if I can keep going down this road or if it is best for all to move on.
It's hard to term when your attached to the kids. Thanks for the advice! The main reason I was struggling with deciding to term was because they say the kids who act out the worst are the ones who need help and I did not want to cause any additional change in his life. This child is smart and is great during structured activities but when it comes to free play he becomes a mess everyday. Mom is no help at all and that is why I am ready to move on. Not only does she make excuses she is constantly giving him new things and not trying to be consistent. BC is right in regards to I knew what I wanted to do but I needed an nudge over the edge because I feel terrible. I have an all boys group ages 1 to 4 and it is high energy almost all day except their 2 hour nap (all my boys are nappers
). I have read books went to special trainings and tried multiple things with him and I truly feel bad for him but I also agree that this is a big issue with a lot of kids especially boys and terming is an option but maybe not the best since at what point does this problem get fixed. My mom and husband always tell me I care too much and this is a time when I don't know how to let go because I am worried what will happen after I term for his sake. I guarantee I am the only stability in this child's life right now. I received a hand written note from his grandmother thanking me for taking such good care of him and that he is always talking about what we do. My biggest concern is neglecting the other kids and me giving too much energy to him and not having enough for the other (which is why I posted this morning. I am exhausted by this daily drama but the other kids don't seem to care). I didn't term today even though I wanted to I just need to figure out if I can keep going down this road or if it is best for all to move on.. I have only termed once, and it was because the parents weren't ready to get the little one the help he needed. I haven't met your little one but I can tell you that every child reacts differently to difficult family situations. The behavior could be the result of parenting or a combination of parenting/his reaction to the situation at home. If it's the 2nd, and mom doesn't do anything to make it better, the behavior will be much more difficult to address on your own.
In your shoes, I would probably lay it on the line for the mother. Sit down and discuss a plan for improvement. What are you going to do? What are your expectations of her? And most importantly, behaviors don't improve overnight but (if you are both doing your part) you would generally see some improvement in 2-3 weeks. If no improvement, term. I got my form for this situation off this site. I think it was a termination warning letter.
Blackcat31 05:52 AM 12-18-2015
Originally Posted by spedmommy4:
I
In your shoes, I would probably lay it on the line for the mother. Sit down and discuss a plan for improvement. What are you going to do? What are your expectations of her? And most importantly, behaviors don't improve overnight but (if you are both doing your part) you would generally see some improvement in 2-3 weeks. If no improvement, term. I got my form for this situation off this site. I think it was a termination warning letter.
I agree. I would let mom know you are seriously on the verge of terming and the ONLY way for termination not to happen is if she/dad step up and start getting the child's behavior in check with your expectations so that he can thrive in care. I
In your shoes, I would probably lay it on the line for the mother. Sit down and discuss a plan for improvement. What are you going to do? What are your expectations of her? And most importantly, behaviors don't improve overnight but (if you are both doing your part) you would generally see some improvement in 2-3 weeks. If no improvement, term. I got my form for this situation off this site. I think it was a termination warning letter.
I wouldn't accept a "okay, we'll work in it" type response from parents either. I would want a plan of action so that you can both be on the same page and SEE results.
I would set a date and tell them improvement must be shown by that date or termination is unavoidable.
You are correct in thinking it isnt fair to the other kids that all your time/attention is on this child. You are correct in thinking the kids that need it the most, show it in the worst ways but you are setting yourself up for failure if you think that YOU alone can fix this.
At some point you have to realize and accept that not all kids are "fixable" and not all kids' issues are your issue to address/fix. Sometimes letting a child go IS the push to do what is right for the child on the parents part. Mom/dad may not be doing anything right now because it really isnt their problem, it's yours...kwim?
So terming isnt' always a bad thing.
Sometimes it is a great thing for everyone.
A relief for you, less stress for the other kids and the eye opener the parents need to step up.
NO MATTER what decision you make you did NOT fail and you ARE doing what is best for YOU.
Remember that. YOU have to consider YOU in this too.
Ariana 09:54 AM 12-18-2015
I don't know if I agree. I mean good luck if she decides to have a meeting with mom but I get enough resistance when I suggest taking a non talking 2 year old to a speech pathologist which is such an easy fix. How is OP possibly going to help mom implement change unless she sleeps at their house a la SuperNanny?
I think as caregivers we have a responsibility to help the kids in our care but my job ends when they leave my home. I think this kind of behavior is bordering on co-dependant. The parent has a right to raise their child how they see fit. I can't save every child if the parent is not on board. 'Threatening' to term if a parent doesn't make changes is just not professional in my opinion. Working with a child for over a year and seeing no improvement is beyond my capabilities as a provider.
I think as caregivers we have a responsibility to help the kids in our care but my job ends when they leave my home. I think this kind of behavior is bordering on co-dependant. The parent has a right to raise their child how they see fit. I can't save every child if the parent is not on board. 'Threatening' to term if a parent doesn't make changes is just not professional in my opinion. Working with a child for over a year and seeing no improvement is beyond my capabilities as a provider.
Annalee 10:06 AM 12-18-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree. I would let mom know you are seriously on the verge of terming and the ONLY way for termination not to happen is if she/dad step up and start getting the child's behavior in check with your expectations so that he can thrive in care.
I wouldn't accept a "okay, we'll work in it" type response from parents either. I would want a plan of action so that you can both be on the same page and SEE results.This is where i failed when working too long with recently terminated family.Words mean nothing, actions must happen!
I would set a date and tell them improvement must be shown by that date or termination is unavoidable.
You are correct in thinking it isnt fair to the other kids that all your time/attention is on this child. You are correct in thinking the kids that need it the most, show it in the worst ways but you are setting yourself up for failure if you think that YOU alone can fix this.
At some point you have to realize and accept that not all kids are "fixable" and not all kids' issues are your issue to address/fix. Sometimes letting a child go IS the push to do what is right for the child on the parents part. Mom/dad may not be doing anything right now because it really isnt their problem, it's yours...kwim? Exactly!
So terming isnt' always a bad thing.
Sometimes it is a great thing for everyone. Absolutely!
A relief for you, less stress for the other kids and the eye opener the parents need to step up.
NO MATTER what decision you make you did NOT fail and you ARE doing what is best for YOU.
Remember that. YOU have to consider YOU in this too.
I agree. I would let mom know you are seriously on the verge of terming and the ONLY way for termination not to happen is if she/dad step up and start getting the child's behavior in check with your expectations so that he can thrive in care.
I wouldn't accept a "okay, we'll work in it" type response from parents either. I would want a plan of action so that you can both be on the same page and SEE results.
This is where i failed when working too long with recently terminated family.Words mean nothing, actions must happen! I would set a date and tell them improvement must be shown by that date or termination is unavoidable.
You are correct in thinking it isnt fair to the other kids that all your time/attention is on this child. You are correct in thinking the kids that need it the most, show it in the worst ways but you are setting yourself up for failure if you think that YOU alone can fix this.
At some point you have to realize and accept that not all kids are "fixable" and not all kids' issues are your issue to address/fix. Sometimes letting a child go IS the push to do what is right for the child on the parents part. Mom/dad may not be doing anything right now because it really isnt their problem, it's yours...kwim? Exactly!
So terming isnt' always a bad thing.
Sometimes it is a great thing for everyone. Absolutely!
A relief for you, less stress for the other kids and the eye opener the parents need to step up.
NO MATTER what decision you make you did NOT fail and you ARE doing what is best for YOU.
Remember that. YOU have to consider YOU in this too.
So very true!
Unregistered 10:59 AM 12-18-2015
I have an early childhood K-6 teaching degree. I've been in this field for over 20 years. I've been to all the behavior intervention workshops, through Social/emotional courses, etc. I know if I child was at this level of being distraught and I'd tried choices, cozy corners, consistent expectations/reminders, a steady predictable schedule, picture schedules, books and stories and activities geared to social emotional regulation, paying attention to what the child was doing right instead of only what he/she was doing wrong, had built a strong connection with him/her, had reasonable expectations voiced each day upon arrival, discussed the situation with mom, etc. I'd term and I wouldn't deal with it for months and months first. Just not my job.
If a child is sleep deprived, is never told no, lives on junk food, has no schedule or routine, lives with chaos and then comes to me in melt-down mode-finding it impossible to emotionally regulate all day, every day I'd definitely feel I would be unable to meet the child's needs. I can't do it all. I know my limits. If I can't do my job or other parents start leaving because of the chaos each day it does no one any good. I'm only one person in a family child care operation and I can only do so much....this is just me and again I know what I can deal with.
If a child is sleep deprived, is never told no, lives on junk food, has no schedule or routine, lives with chaos and then comes to me in melt-down mode-finding it impossible to emotionally regulate all day, every day I'd definitely feel I would be unable to meet the child's needs. I can't do it all. I know my limits. If I can't do my job or other parents start leaving because of the chaos each day it does no one any good. I'm only one person in a family child care operation and I can only do so much....this is just me and again I know what I can deal with.
Unregistered 11:08 AM 12-18-2015
Originally Posted by spedmommy4:
Exactly!!! I have a set of parents in their early 20's. They told me at a parent-teacher conference, "we just want our kids to like us." I believe that kids can learn that each environment has different expectations. I have parents who enforce the same rules that I do and parents who don't. I don't have any more significant behaviors from kids from "no rules" homes than I do from the consistent parents.
I see a major difference.Exactly!!! I have a set of parents in their early 20's. They told me at a parent-teacher conference, "we just want our kids to like us."
I believe that kids can learn that each environment has different expectations. I have parents who enforce the same rules that I do and parents who don't. I don't have any more significant behaviors from kids from "no rules" homes than I do from the consistent parents.
daycarediva 11:17 AM 12-18-2015
Originally Posted by spedmommy4:
Based on the responses, I don't think mine is going to be popular. However, I feel like this is important information to share. I recently got this in an email: http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=2...B-03A9B3743667
The summary version is that kids are getting kicked out of preschool and childcare settings a lot. Boys are more than 4 times more likely than girls. I also recently attended a webinar on behavior where the presenter said that, in most cases, a child's behavior difficulties begin in preschool. And usually the child and behaviors get passed on to the next teacher, and the next with no real intervention.
Now, I don't know about all of you, but I have seen an enormous spike in troublesome childhood behaviors over the last 15 years. I have also seen a huge increase in parents who just don't seem to know how to discipline or be consistent. And based on the consistent increase, I fear it won't improve.
I know that sometimes terming is necessary. I had to term a 4 year old a few months back that needed services above and beyond what I could provide. But . . . I have a few tips for this situation and hope they help. Maybe someone else will have some other great tips too.
* try choices. "Dcb, you can do this or this." Don't give other options. Don't engage him beyond offering a choice.
* model appropriate social skills. "Dcb, ask Johnny for the toy." It is really important during the initial modeling phase that the positive strategies work. Dcb needs to learn that asking nicely gets the toy and being mean gets nothing. If other child says, no, you need a back up. For example, Suzy said no, you can get a timer or play with this other toy. (Again putting ball back in his court)
* ignore tantrums. Instruct other kids to ignore. Say out loud, we can play with dcb when he is done crying.
*if he is having difficulty following directions. Try giving short,simple clear, directions. Give them one at a time. If its refusal to follow directions, you can try a first/then strategy. For example, first you have to put on shoes and then we can go outside.
Hope this helps.
Sorry about the soapbox. My daughter was a three year old preschool rebel so I have a soft spot for the challenging kids now.
Based on the responses, I don't think mine is going to be popular. However, I feel like this is important information to share. I recently got this in an email: http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=2...B-03A9B3743667
The summary version is that kids are getting kicked out of preschool and childcare settings a lot. Boys are more than 4 times more likely than girls. I also recently attended a webinar on behavior where the presenter said that, in most cases, a child's behavior difficulties begin in preschool. And usually the child and behaviors get passed on to the next teacher, and the next with no real intervention.
Now, I don't know about all of you, but I have seen an enormous spike in troublesome childhood behaviors over the last 15 years. I have also seen a huge increase in parents who just don't seem to know how to discipline or be consistent. And based on the consistent increase, I fear it won't improve.
I know that sometimes terming is necessary. I had to term a 4 year old a few months back that needed services above and beyond what I could provide. But . . . I have a few tips for this situation and hope they help. Maybe someone else will have some other great tips too.
* try choices. "Dcb, you can do this or this." Don't give other options. Don't engage him beyond offering a choice.
* model appropriate social skills. "Dcb, ask Johnny for the toy." It is really important during the initial modeling phase that the positive strategies work. Dcb needs to learn that asking nicely gets the toy and being mean gets nothing. If other child says, no, you need a back up. For example, Suzy said no, you can get a timer or play with this other toy. (Again putting ball back in his court)
* ignore tantrums. Instruct other kids to ignore. Say out loud, we can play with dcb when he is done crying.
*if he is having difficulty following directions. Try giving short,simple clear, directions. Give them one at a time. If its refusal to follow directions, you can try a first/then strategy. For example, first you have to put on shoes and then we can go outside.
Hope this helps.
Sorry about the soapbox. My daughter was a three year old preschool rebel so I have a soft spot for the challenging kids now.
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
While I agree with Spedmommy and the point she is trying to make (my kid was a tough kid too so I understand and empathize with the situation) but IME, when a provider reaches the point of asking for advice on whether to term or not, the answer usually is term simply because as providers most of us already try every single trick in our bags and a few things we never thought we'd resort to doing before finally throwing up our hands and posting.
In other words, I am betting OP already KNOWS she should term but was just wanting some confirmation. Just in case she missed anything
I agree with black cat. While I agree with Spedmommy and the point she is trying to make (my kid was a tough kid too so I understand and empathize with the situation) but IME, when a provider reaches the point of asking for advice on whether to term or not, the answer usually is term simply because as providers most of us already try every single trick in our bags and a few things we never thought we'd resort to doing before finally throwing up our hands and posting.
In other words, I am betting OP already KNOWS she should term but was just wanting some confirmation. Just in case she missed anything
I have termed more in the last 2 years than I had in the previous 5. The academic expectations are increasing, but the behavioral and self help expectations have drastically decreased.
I WILL NOT allow one child to destroy the general atmosphere of my group. I DO work WITH parents, but only if they are actually putting in the work, too. I WILL NOT continue to be the one doing ALL the work. It is NOT my child. I meet with the parent (come to Jesus meeting), I sandwich the negatives with some positives, we work out a plan of action to do whatever needs to be done, I put it in writing, the parent signs it and we set a date for improvement or resolution. The only times I have had to term are because the PARENT doesn't follow through.
renodeb 12:23 PM 12-21-2015
I think you already know what you need to do. He is causing you to neglect the whole group. Mom is not supportive. Term immediately! You will be so glad that you did.
Laurel 04:15 AM 12-22-2015
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I don't know if I agree. I mean good luck if she decides to have a meeting with mom but I get enough resistance when I suggest taking a non talking 2 year old to a speech pathologist which is such an easy fix. How is OP possibly going to help mom implement change unless she sleeps at their house a la SuperNanny?
I think as caregivers we have a responsibility to help the kids in our care but my job ends when they leave my home. I think this kind of behavior is bordering on co-dependant. The parent has a right to raise their child how they see fit. I can't save every child if the parent is not on board. 'Threatening' to term if a parent doesn't make changes is just not professional in my opinion. Working with a child for over a year and seeing no improvement is beyond my capabilities as a provider.
I disagree somewhat. I had a case where the baby wouldn't nap. The parents were so very nice and it was their first child. I think they just needed a wake up call. Finally, after trying different things I told them I would try for 2 more weeks and then if the situation didn't change (it was disrupting everyone's whole day and I was exhausted) sadly I wouldn't be able to watch him anymore. I was very nice.I don't know if I agree. I mean good luck if she decides to have a meeting with mom but I get enough resistance when I suggest taking a non talking 2 year old to a speech pathologist which is such an easy fix. How is OP possibly going to help mom implement change unless she sleeps at their house a la SuperNanny?
I think as caregivers we have a responsibility to help the kids in our care but my job ends when they leave my home. I think this kind of behavior is bordering on co-dependant. The parent has a right to raise their child how they see fit. I can't save every child if the parent is not on board. 'Threatening' to term if a parent doesn't make changes is just not professional in my opinion. Working with a child for over a year and seeing no improvement is beyond my capabilities as a provider.
I liked them so much and I had no idea what they were or were not doing at home because, like you, I don't like to tell them what they should do in their own home. I approached it with them as "He isn't sleeping here and that is not working for me so I can't watch him if it continues." I'm not blaming them or threatening them, I'm just telling them that the situation isn't one I am willing to deal with.
Don't you know, the very next day he slept the whole nap time and from then on! Turns out they were letting him sleep late so mom could get ready for work in peace. I guess she wasn't willing to give up doing that until she was faced with no childcare.
Meli3773 06:17 AM 12-22-2015
I have been on the verge of terming a few times, but I just keep working with the child and keep the parents informed so there will be no surprises if I end up having to term. The more they know about what is going on in the daycare and what your expectations are the more they are willing to work on it at home too. They don't want to be termed and they will get the hint the more you stress what your expectations are. Say things like "I want your child happy here too...". It's a tough situation for both.