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Old 03-22-2018, 08:29 AM
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Default What is a Normal/Minor Injury at Daycare?

Apologies if this has already been answered in another thread.. and also about the length of this thread..

A few weeks ago, my son got scratched by another kid in daycare. I can't include attachments here, so here's a link to the images:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Sn...U8Tscw1zVO5Mwd

The scratch by his jaw was there from a few weeks ago, made by the same kid. Still healing. The ones by his nose and mouth are from the day prior. Same kid. The "V" above and below his eye are all from that day. Same kid. It looks to be scarring.

He's gotten minor scratches in the past (again, by the same kid). I am aware that daycare injuries happen, so it wasn't really a big deal.

These recent scratches disturbed me, however, and how the daycare director responded hasn't sat well. When she called me to say that it happened, her first words were how my son tried to take another kid's toy and the kid just retaliated because of that, saying it was *his* fault. He was under care of the morning teacher at the time (who I usually see on her phone), and that teacher said she didn't see what happened or hear him cry.

I didn't know how bad it was until later that day when I picked him up. But, on the phone, I told her that obviously my kid has issues with sharing and we'll work on that, but I also asked her what we can do to prevent this in the future - as it seems like its been happening often.

Here's some of the Q & A:

Q: What can we do to prevent this in the future?
A: Well. We notified the parents, and mentioned to make sure the child's nails are clipped. There's not much else we can do.

Q: So.. Whenever my kid is congested and coughing up green phlegm, I get a call to come pick him up. And I do. Can't his parents be notified of the same with his nails, especially since it is a problem?
A: Sickness is different. Sickness calls are mostly for *our staff*. If a staff member is out, I have to go cover down on that staff member's group of kids.

Q: Can teachers check their kids once in a while and notify parents that their kids' nails are not to standard for daycare?
A: You just parents don't understand! You expect teachers to have 12 different eyes and we just can't see everything that goes on. And me, I wear 50 different hats during the day. We can't always be on top of each and every kid all the time.

Q: Can we separate or terminate the other kid?
A: No!

Q: Look, I don't want to have to pull my kid from your daycare, so what can we do about this?
A: I'm not going to tell you what to do or anything, but if you feel you need to pull him from here, then we can certainly do that.

Q: So, our only options are pull him from your daycare or continue to submit him to possibly getting scratched and scarred like this?
A: Look, all we can do is our best and that's all we can do.

There's more to this dialogue. It included lots of rudeness, interruption and yelling from this director. Also, it took a week, but I was able to get off the waiting list for another daycare and move him there.

There are cameras up. For this occurrence, and the past few, I've asked to see footage. She would tell me that hasn't had time to look, or she forgot the password to the system, etc. Obviously, she would have had to see footage for this instance if the morning teacher was the only one there at the time and "didn't see what happened", and claim that it was my son taking another kid's toy. Last year, by the way, I helped her pull footage for not just my son but other kids as well, since she isn't tech savvy.

Is this all just acceptable? Worthy of a complaint to the licensing agency, or just a bad review?
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:38 AM
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He was 2 at the time, by the way. Just turned 3
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:44 AM
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It sounds like a supervision issue to me and that is the directors responsibility to ensure that her staff are doing their jobs. Accidents such as a kid scratching another kid do happen but since this issue has been ongoing on more than 2 occasions and it is always the same child it seems as if the teachers could and should be doing more.

I would probably be looking for new care just based on the directors responses to your questions. When you asked if you should pull him and she responded “if you feel the need to pull him do it” tells me that she doesn’t care about your child and whether he is there or not. I have seen my director use this line on children that aren’t favored or tend to be problem children (not saying your child is) so that she doesn’t have to be the one to terminate. I wouldn’t want my child somewhere where they are not cared about. If you think the supervision issue warrants a call to licensing I say go for it but be prepared for them to retaliate and possibly terminate your child as even anonymous complaints are pretty obvious to figure out most of the time and it sounds like the director isn’t the greatest at her job.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Apologies if this has already been answered in another thread.. and also about the length of this thread..

A few weeks ago, my son got scratched by another kid in daycare. I can't include attachments here, so here's a link to the images:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Sn...U8Tscw1zVO5Mwd

The scratch by his jaw was there from a few weeks ago, made by the same kid. Still healing. The ones by his nose and mouth are from the day prior. Same kid. The "V" above and below his eye are all from that day. Same kid. It looks to be scarring.

He's gotten minor scratches in the past (again, by the same kid). I am aware that daycare injuries happen, so it wasn't really a big deal.

These recent scratches disturbed me, however, and how the daycare director responded hasn't sat well. When she called me to say that it happened, her first words were how my son tried to take another kid's toy and the kid just retaliated because of that, saying it was *his* fault. He was under care of the morning teacher at the time (who I usually see on her phone), and that teacher said she didn't see what happened or hear him cry.

I didn't know how bad it was until later that day when I picked him up. But, on the phone, I told her that obviously my kid has issues with sharing and we'll work on that, but I also asked her what we can do to prevent this in the future - as it seems like its been happening often.

Here's some of the Q & A:

Q: What can we do to prevent this in the future?
A: Well. We notified the parents, and mentioned to make sure the child's nails are clipped. There's not much else we can do.

Q: So.. Whenever my kid is congested and coughing up green phlegm, I get a call to come pick him up. And I do. Can't his parents be notified of the same with his nails, especially since it is a problem?
A: Sickness is different. Sickness calls are mostly for *our staff*. If a staff member is out, I have to go cover down on that staff member's group of kids.

Q: Can teachers check their kids once in a while and notify parents that their kids' nails are not to standard for daycare?
A: You just parents don't understand! You expect teachers to have 12 different eyes and we just can't see everything that goes on. And me, I wear 50 different hats during the day. We can't always be on top of each and every kid all the time.

Q: Can we separate or terminate the other kid?
A: No!

Q: Look, I don't want to have to pull my kid from your daycare, so what can we do about this?
A: I'm not going to tell you what to do or anything, but if you feel you need to pull him from here, then we can certainly do that.

Q: So, our only options are pull him from your daycare or continue to submit him to possibly getting scratched and scarred like this?
A: Look, all we can do is our best and that's all we can do.

There's more to this dialogue. It included lots of rudeness, interruption and yelling from this director. Also, it took a week, but I was able to get off the waiting list for another daycare and move him there.

There are cameras up. For this occurrence, and the past few, I've asked to see footage. She would tell me that hasn't had time to look, or she forgot the password to the system, etc. Obviously, she would have had to see footage for this instance if the morning teacher was the only one there at the time and "didn't see what happened", and claim that it was my son taking another kid's toy. Last year, by the way, I helped her pull footage for not just my son but other kids as well, since she isn't tech savvy.

Is this all just acceptable? Worthy of a complaint to the licensing agency, or just a bad review?
Is the child that is being physically aggressive a child of the owner, a staff member or a family or personal friend of the owner, director or a staff member?

Your experience is NOT normal and is actually very concerning... I would NOT bring my child back to this center and I would absolutely call licensing and report what has happened.

I am a licensed caregiver that has been in business for a very long time and I've had my fair share of issues with sharing and my fair share of behavior challenges but I've never had a child be injured to the extent show in your photos. Those are NOT scratches in my opinion but are gouges and not something I would EVER try and downplay to a parent.

Frankly I am not surprised at the way this is being handled and I absolutely advise you to document and report this to the proper agencies.

I am sorry your child has had to deal with this.
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  #5  
Old 03-22-2018, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Is the child that is being physically aggressive a child of the owner, a staff member or a family or personal friend of the owner, director or a staff member?

Your experience is NOT normal and is actually very concerning... I would NOT bring my child back to this center and I would absolutely call licensing and report what has happened.

I am a licensed caregiver that has been in business for a very long time and I've had my fair share of issues with sharing and my fair share of behavior challenges but I've never had a child be injured to the extent show in your photos. Those are NOT scratches in my opinion but are gouges and not something I would EVER try and downplay to a parent.

Frankly I am not surprised at the way this is being handled and I absolutely advise you to document and report this to the proper agencies.

I am sorry your child has had to deal with this.
This.

I wish the pictures were further zoomed out so I could see the size well, but if a child is known to scratch/bite/push/hit, it is on the teacher (and director) to make sure that child is within reach of an adult at all times and prevent other children from being injured.

I would remove my child from the center immediately and make a formal complaint to your local licensing agency.
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Old 03-22-2018, 04:43 PM
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No way would I accept my child being treated like that. Until I saw the pics, I thought "things happen, and we can't prevent every little scratch" then I opened your link, Holy Cow that is more than a little!!! I can't believe anyone could try to justify that, and how can a teacher not see it happen? Yes you were right to pull from care, and I probably would report it to licensing.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:10 PM
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I don't think you need to determine whether this is something that should be reported or not ... if you want to report it do so and let the governing agency decide if they want to pursue it. Even if they don't they'll have a record of your report which should come up as a red flag if someone else reports about the same center.

So, yes, I'd report it.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daycarediva View Post
This.

I wish the pictures were further zoomed out so I could see the size well, but if a child is known to scratch/bite/push/hit, it is on the teacher (and director) to make sure that child is within reach of an adult at all times and prevent other children from being injured.

I would remove my child from the center immediately and make a formal complaint to your local licensing agency.
Thank you for your reply. I totally agree. I included more pictures in the link. Forgive, as I was trying to preserve my son's anonymity and not have his face/pictures all over the Internet.

He has been removed from the daycare (as of 3/5, incident on 2/23)..
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdy2222 View Post
I don't think you need to determine whether this is something that should be reported or not ... if you want to report it do so and let the governing agency decide if they want to pursue it. Even if they don't they'll have a record of your report which should come up as a red flag if someone else reports about the same center.

So, yes, I'd report it.
Thank you for your reply. I did report it just today. And, yes, they decided to pursue it and said it was pretty bad.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by racemom View Post
No way would I accept my child being treated like that. Until I saw the pics, I thought "things happen, and we can't prevent every little scratch" then I opened your link, Holy Cow that is more than a little!!! I can't believe anyone could try to justify that, and how can a teacher not see it happen? Yes you were right to pull from care, and I probably would report it to licensing.
My thoughts exactly. I understand things happen, but.. not like this. Thank you for your reply.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Is the child that is being physically aggressive a child of the owner, a staff member or a family or personal friend of the owner, director or a staff member?

Your experience is NOT normal and is actually very concerning... I would NOT bring my child back to this center and I would absolutely call licensing and report what has happened.

I am a licensed caregiver that has been in business for a very long time and I've had my fair share of issues with sharing and my fair share of behavior challenges but I've never had a child be injured to the extent show in your photos. Those are NOT scratches in my opinion but are gouges and not something I would EVER try and downplay to a parent.

Frankly I am not surprised at the way this is being handled and I absolutely advise you to document and report this to the proper agencies.

I am sorry your child has had to deal with this.
The other kid's mom is a friend of the director, I believe. She did state that the other kid's mom is a good mom and going through hard times, which I definitely understand. I do think there was some favoritism because of that. It did seem that the director would rather have my son be gone than hers.

Thank you all for your responses. Those around me tried to downplay everything, which I reluctantly tried to accept at first. My son's mom was like "Obviously he's OK, so let's just look for another daycare." Which we did. To me that's not enough.

This daycare is the same one that left a child all alone last year. Yeah. The child was asleep underneath a blanket around closing time. The teacher (singular) thought everyone left for the day. And left. The parent of the kid showed up. Lights were out, no one home, doors locked...

I wanted to pull my son at that time, but the director's emotional response afterwards and my son's mom's words convinced me otherwise..

This director takes no responsibility for her actions. When the incident happened with that other kid, insider knowledge (don't ask how) told me that the director didn't think she should have to pay the fine she received. She said that it wasn't her fault, she wasn't even there - and that she would ensure the payment would come from that employee.

Every time an injury (scratch, bruise, bite, bug-bite, etc) happens, it's an automatic "that didn't happen here" until I show otherwise.

The password issue with her camera system was even blamed on her security company. B.S. - they can't be blamed for her forgetfulness to her own camera system.

In the past, I brought up issues about proofreading her Facebook posts and occasional flyers she hands out, for spelling, usage, grammar, etc. Her response was "We all don't have a college degree like you, so I'm sorry for those typos" What? You advertise as a "learning academy" but think it takes a college degree to know the difference between "send a gift wrapped" and "send a gift raped"? Elementary school kids can spell and write better than both the director and the teachers she employs. And "typos" are OK once in a while, but not in literally every post and flyer. I know I don't write perfectly, but..
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:55 AM
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Thank you for your reply. I did report it just today. And, yes, they decided to pursue it and said it was pretty bad.
I'm very glad to read this!! After reading the post about a dck being left alone, I'm extremely glad. That type of thing should never happen.
A side note, when questioning reporting something, always remember, there might be other reports 'out there' and all it takes is 1 more to get the state to check fully into something. You may be the 1 report who helps save a life.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:37 AM
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Kids do get scratched from time to time but in your sons case the marks look more like gouges— as if someone scratched him with the intent to do serious harm. I think you did the right thing in reporting it as the director doesn’t seem like she cares too much.

And you say the teacher is on her phone when you go into the room! That is something that I would definitely not tolerate. If she is on the phone she cannot be properly supervising the children to make sure things like biting, hitting, and scratching do not happen. I don’t even carry my phone with me when I am working.
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Is the child that is being physically aggressive a child of the owner, a staff member or a family or personal friend of the owner, director or a staff member?

Your experience is NOT normal and is actually very concerning... I would NOT bring my child back to this center and I would absolutely call licensing and report what has happened.

I am a licensed caregiver that has been in business for a very long time and I've had my fair share of issues with sharing and my fair share of behavior challenges but I've never had a child be injured to the extent show in your photos. Those are NOT scratches in my opinion but are gouges and not something I would EVER try and downplay to a parent.

Frankly I am not surprised at the way this is being handled and I absolutely advise you to document and report this to the proper agencies.

I am sorry your child has had to deal with this.
^ This.
I honestly do not know why they continue to let that happen. I do not care who's child that is they shouldn't be in group care unless someone wants to be his shadow and follow him everywhere. His/Her nails must be really long to do that type of damage. You did the right thing by removing your son. Obviously he would continue to be hurt by this child. Let's see if the director terminates when a bunch of kids are un-enrolled for those "scratches".
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:22 AM
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The other kid's mom is a friend of the director, I believe. She did state that the other kid's mom is a good mom and going through hard times, which I definitely understand. I do think there was some favoritism because of that. It did seem that the director would rather have my son be gone than hers.

Thank you all for your responses. Those around me tried to downplay everything, which I reluctantly tried to accept at first. My son's mom was like "Obviously he's OK, so let's just look for another daycare." Which we did. To me that's not enough.

This daycare is the same one that left a child all alone last year. Yeah. The child was asleep underneath a blanket around closing time. The teacher (singular) thought everyone left for the day. And left. The parent of the kid showed up. Lights were out, no one home, doors locked...

I wanted to pull my son at that time, but the director's emotional response afterwards and my son's mom's words convinced me otherwise..

This director takes no responsibility for her actions. When the incident happened with that other kid, insider knowledge (don't ask how) told me that the director didn't think she should have to pay the fine she received. She said that it wasn't her fault, she wasn't even there - and that she would ensure the payment would come from that employee.

Every time an injury (scratch, bruise, bite, bug-bite, etc) happens, it's an automatic "that didn't happen here" until I show otherwise.

The password issue with her camera system was even blamed on her security company. B.S. - they can't be blamed for her forgetfulness to her own camera system.

In the past, I brought up issues about proofreading her Facebook posts and occasional flyers she hands out, for spelling, usage, grammar, etc. Her response was "We all don't have a college degree like you, so I'm sorry for those typos" What? You advertise as a "learning academy" but think it takes a college degree to know the difference between "send a gift wrapped" and "send a gift raped"? Elementary school kids can spell and write better than both the director and the teachers she employs. And "typos" are OK once in a while, but not in literally every post and flyer. I know I don't write perfectly, but..
In my state you must hold a BA or higher in Ed to be a director. I didn't last 3 months at a director position, because the quality of staff (minimum wage) was maddening.

ALWAYS trust your instincts. I would have pulled after the other child was left alone, as well.

I looked at the updated photos. Those are beyond scratches, gouging, and I hope they don't scar (vitamin E oil helps).

There is NO WAY your child did not cry. There is NO WAY the teacher was unaware of this unless the children were completely unsupervised. I have been doing this for 10 years and if that ever happened to a child in my care, the child who was violent would be terminated THAT DAY. That is a level of aggression (IMHO) above typical childhood behavior.
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:47 AM
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Well, the investigation has been concluded. They said that the findings were not substantiated (for the allegation of supervision issues). Video footage was observed, and they said that it did show the teacher observing my son being scratched but intervening as soon as it happened.

The day it happened, I was told by the daycare that the teacher didn't see it. Strange...

Dangerous kid to be inflicting that much damage in a short period of time under the watchful eyes of the teacher.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:59 AM
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Well, the investigation has been concluded. They said that the findings were not substantiated (for the allegation of supervision issues). Video footage was observed, and they said that it did show the teacher observing my son being scratched but intervening as soon as it happened.

The day it happened, I was told by the daycare that the teacher didn't see it. Strange...

Dangerous kid to be inflicting that much damage in a short period of time under the watchful eyes of the teacher.
It is sad that this child was able to hurt another so swiftly and yet the child is still in attendance.

It will cost the center as parents start to realize that the directors friend's child gets special treatment.

We don't always get the results we would like to see in terms of investigations but I am still glad you reported it.

The fact that they were investigated will remain in their file so while not much happened this time, it doesn't mean the results or findings won't be different the next go around.

Keeping an aggressive child in care just because of the relationship between parent and director is a dangerous practice so sadly there will probably be a next time.

It might just be a learning moment or a time of reflection so they (center staff) can better supervise and intervene so that other children don't have to suffer any type of physical aggression from others in the center.

Hoping you found a better, safer care environment for your child.
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Old 06-19-2018, 02:23 AM
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I guess the issue is all about supervision. Try to find other safer environment for your child.
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