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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Rolling Infant Less Than Five Months Old - Is This Dangerous?
SignMeUp 01:06 PM 06-02-2014
So. The regulation here now is that we need parental confirmation if a baby less than six months old rolls over in their sleep. If under six months and no confirmation, we must put them back on their back for remainder of nap.
If over six months, no parental confirmation necessary.

I now have my first "roller" since this regulation took effect.

The QUESTION:

Is there thought to be any more DANGER to the infant, hence the new regulation?
Or is it simply that licensors then have confirmation that the infant can roll, and then they will not fine us if they find the baby on their tummy at naptime?

Edited to add: Where I live, we don't get actual responses from licensing. They only point us to laws and regulations. Not helpful for questions like this.
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Heidi 01:11 PM 06-02-2014
Honestly, when my last ones started rolling over, I sent a text message along the lines of "guess what Jr just did!" They replied "yea!", and so I had confirmation. It's not a regulation here; but I did it to cover my butt, so no one could say later I laid baby down on his tummy.
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SignMeUp 01:14 PM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Honestly, when my last ones started rolling over, I sent a text message along the lines of "guess what Jr just did!" They replied "yea!", and so I had confirmation. It's not a regulation here; but I did it to cover my butt, so no one could say later I laid baby down on his tummy.
Yep, and I have that confirmation too. But DCM is wondering IF she should sign the form. I don't want to turn baby back over, but I also don't want to give her inaccurate information about the level of risk, kwim?
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AmyLeigh 01:38 PM 06-02-2014
It's my understanding that once a baby can roll over, the risks decrease, especially if the baby is getting tummy time, can hold his head up well and if he can roll from tummy to back, also. My oldest dd was an early roller, about 3 months, and that is what my ped told me. If that is still the current belief (You know how things like this can change and I haven't had any infants in a long time), maybe you can find a resource that clarifies that for mom's peace of mind.
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SignMeUp 01:42 PM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by AmyLeigh:
It's my understanding that once a baby can roll over, the risks decrease, especially if the baby is getting tummy time, can hold his head up well and if he can roll from tummy to back, also. My oldest dd was an early roller, about 3 months, and that is what my ped told me. If that is still the current belief (You know how things like this can change and I haven't had any infants in a long time), maybe you can find a resource that clarifies that for mom's peace of mind.
I can't find anything about further risk. This baby gets tummy time and holds head up well, but does not roll tummy to back.
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AmyLeigh 01:58 PM 06-02-2014
The info is out there. For example, this is from Dr. Sears' website: http://www.parenting.com/article/ask...sids-risk-baby (I pasted part of his response here)

Q. Our baby girl likes to sleep on her stomach, even if you put her on her back or side. She's 5 months old and has been sitting and rolling since 4 months. Should we worry about sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS)?

A. Even though SIDS is high on a parent's worry list, it is actually a rare tragedy, occurring in approximately 1 out of every 1,000 babies. SIDS most commonly occurs between 2 and 4 months of age, and after 6 months the chances of an occurrence are even more unlikely. So, your baby is just about past the age where you need to worry.
It sounds like you have a precocious baby who will assume her favorite sleeping position regardless of how you put her to sleep. Even though back-sleeping has been proven to be the safest sleeping position, some SIDS researchers believe that babies will intuitively try to find their own individual safest position. That sounds like what your baby is doing.


Your new reg may be just to cover your butt regarding a child on his belly during nap, like Heidi said.
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Heidi 02:30 PM 06-02-2014
Our regs actually say that once they can roll over on their own, they are free to choose their own sleep position. We can also use blankets, but are supposed to put them to bed on their backs, with their blanket secured under their arms and under the crib mattress all around.

Of course, none of my dck's leave it there any more.
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MCC 04:27 PM 06-02-2014
I have a 13 week old boy here who started rolling this past weekend. You put him on his back, and he rolls to his stomach immediately. There is no way I'm standing over his crib the entire nap time, he wouldn't get any sleep. I put him on his back and he rolls over, goodnight.

I believe that once they are doing it on their own, they are fine.
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craftymissbeth 04:47 PM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Yep, and I have that confirmation too. But DCM is wondering IF she should sign the form. I don't want to turn baby back over, but I also don't want to give her inaccurate information about the level of risk, kwim?
Is she saying she might not sign it? Idk, I think I'd make it required. What if licensing showed up and the baby flipped to their tummy just in time for your licensor to see? I'd want it just to CYA.

or maybe I'm not understanding what the form is for
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SignMeUp 07:52 PM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Is she saying she might not sign it? Idk, I think I'd make it required. What if licensing showed up and the baby flipped to their tummy just in time for your licensor to see? I'd want it just to CYA.

or maybe I'm not understanding what the form is for
I do want it just for that, in case the baby is on tummy when licensing shows up.
The state form says that "use of the form for the parent statement is optional" and I think that makes the parent think that they do not have to sign. I'm not sure what it means either and licensing here generally does not answer questions.
But my understanding of the law is that if the baby is under six months, we are now required to flip them over UNLESS we have the signed statement.

I don't think she means to refuse to sign it, but I guess no, she doesn't want to IF it puts her baby at a higher risk. That's why I'm trying to figure it out.

Can't find an email address to the SID center either. If I get info, I would prefer to have it in writing, kwim? Hardly dare to do or say anything anymore
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playground1 10:33 PM 06-02-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
I do want it just for that, in case the baby is on tummy when licensing shows up.
The state form says that "use of the form for the parent statement is optional" and I think that makes the parent think that they do not have to sign. I'm not sure what it means either and licensing here generally does not answer questions.
But my understanding of the law is that if the baby is under six months, we are now required to flip them over UNLESS we have the signed statement.

I don't think she means to refuse to sign it, but I guess no, she doesn't want to IF it puts her baby at a higher risk. That's why I'm trying to figure it out.

Can't find an email address to the SID center either. If I get info, I would prefer to have it in writing, kwim? Hardly dare to do or say anything anymore
I don't understand. He rolls over, there's nothing yo can do about it. Just tell her that you need her to sign the paper or he can't come back because you can't stand over his bed.
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daycare_jen 06:02 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
I don't understand. He rolls over, there's nothing yo can do about it. Just tell her that you need her to sign the paper or he can't come back because you can't stand over his bed.


Yeah, I don't believe the risk is higher. But if mom won't sign because she thinks it is, then you will need to refuse care until she signs. Does she stand over him all night turning him over each time he rolls?
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craftymissbeth 06:21 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by queen_of_the_playground:
I don't understand. He rolls over, there's nothing yo can do about it. Just tell her that you need her to sign the paper or he can't come back because you can't stand over his bed.
yup.

Originally Posted by :
Of course, once babies can roll over consistently usually around 4 to 7 months they may choose not to stay on their backs all night long. At this point, it's fine to let babies pick a sleep position on their own.
http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sleep/sids.html#
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Blackcat31 06:51 AM 06-03-2014
My licensor said once they roll over, there isn't anything we can do about it.

As long as the baby is still sleeping in a crib or PNP with a firm mattress and nothing else in the crib it's fine.

We don't have to have the parent sign anything.

Just document yourself, that baby is rolling over.

Infants still need to be within sight and sound so he would still be supervised while he is sleeping so really there shouldn't be any additional risk...if that is what mom is thinking.

I would not roll a baby back over while they are asleep if they got onto their tummy on their own.

I don't know if the rules differ in your county but that ^^ is what my licensor told me so... hopefully that helps.
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Annalee 09:21 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My licensor said once they roll over, there isn't anything we can do about it.

As long as the baby is still sleeping in a crib or PNP with a firm mattress and nothing else in the crib it's fine.

We don't have to have the parent sign anything.

Just document yourself, that baby is rolling over.

Infants still need to be within sight and sound so he would still be supervised while he is sleeping so really there shouldn't be any additional risk...if that is what mom is thinking.

I would not roll a baby back over while they are asleep if they got onto their tummy on their own.

I don't know if the rules differ in your county but that ^^ is what my licensor told me so... hopefully that helps.
Same here in TN. Licensing tells us to try one time to roll the child back over just for sake of trying but once a kids starts rolling, they get into their own comfortable sleep positions.
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SignMeUp 10:11 AM 06-03-2014
Thanks for all the input I really do appreciate it.

The issue is that we are supposed to have a parent sign the documentation if they are under six months:
"An infant who independently rolls onto its stomach after being placed to sleep on its back may be allowed to remain sleeping on its stomach if the infant is at least six months of age or the license holder has a signed statement from the parent indicating that the infant regularly rolls over at home." That's a state statute here.

And that, because this baby is on the young side for back-to-tummy rolling, and because he does not yet roll tummy-to-back, that there may be increased risk. More infants roll tummy-to-back first, so it isn't usually an issue.

Mom is worried each time she finds him on his tummy (um, my fault, I trained her in before he was born ) and I was trying to find out if there is any additional risk to this baby because 1. He's male - higher risk 2. He's 4 months old - higher risk 3. Can't roll tummy-to-back to get himself out of the sleep position if he needs to - higher risk?? Not absolutely certain. AND not certain what can be done about it even if it is higher risk.

I don't want to force her to sign something because we are just trying to figure this out together and she is being totally reasonable with me. I just want to figure out IF that new law was put in for a reason that had to do with safety or IF it was put in so that there is simply documentation independent of the provider's word that the infant can roll.

So for a bit of history in my county: For years we were told "tight fitting sheets!!!, tight fitting sheets!!!" with no reason given, and no explanation of what exactly they wanted when they said this.
Come to find out: babies are dying because they are able to pull a sheet corner off of the mattress and get it over their face, apparently restricting air flow and sometimes causing death.
Well gosh. Tell us that. Tell us that a sheet should not be able to be pulled off by the corner, even by an adult. Because babies are dying I am pretty certain that NONE of us want this to happen to us. But do not just make some statement that seems arbitrary. Give us the reason, and precisely what we should do to prevent it from happening, kwim?

So that's why I was looking for this information. I want to keep my baby safe. And I want to understand the reason for the form to be sure that I am doing things that are in his best interest.

I did get a bit of information from the SID Center, and have included it in my plan for this family.
It sounds like there could be increased risk for him, but little that can be done about his chosen sleep position (of course he will be put to sleep on his back though).
We will continue to make sure he has plenty of tummy time to develop his neck & shoulder muscles.
His mom and I are going to play a "roll over" game with him, hoping to jump-start the tummy-to-back rolling.
Parents are going to start using a fan in his room for better air circulation (I already do).
And I am going to keep turning him to his back when I do my baby-checks, until such time as he rolls, or unless we find that it interrupts his sleep (so far, it doesn't - he is pretty much the perfect baby )

And last of all, I am going to remind mom that SUID/SID is still a rare event statistically. We are doing everything we can, and he will almost certainly be just fine

Thanks again for all of the input. I am still open to more suggestions if anyone has them
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Blackcat31 11:06 AM 06-03-2014
Did you find that in the regs? If so can you link it?

My licensor has not said anything like that so I would like to mention the actual regulation to her if that is the case.

My current licensor is new so she may not be aware or just didnt see that...
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Blackcat31 11:10 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:

And that, because this baby is on the young side for back-to-tummy rolling,
I chuckled out loud to this part.... Only because my son walked independently at 7 months. Stood for the first time at 6 months.

But.... I am aware that it was out of the normal range .... Nothing he ever did was in the "normal" range... Lol!

Wonder what licensing would have said about him?!?
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SignMeUp 11:56 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I chuckled out loud to this part.... Only because my son walked independently at 7 months. Stood for the first time at 6 months.

But.... I am aware that it was out of the normal range .... Nothing he ever did was in the "normal" range... Lol!

Wonder what licensing would have said about him?!?
They would say there ain't no room for them thar outliers
I swear, don't legislators know that kids are individuals? That's why babies don't come with a handbook like cars
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Lucy 03:03 PM 06-03-2014
Holy cow, I need my eyes checked. Glancing at the thread titles, I had to give this one a second look. I thought it said "Boiling infant."
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SignMeUp 03:33 PM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by Lucy:
Holy cow, I need my eyes checked. Glancing at the thread titles, I had to give this one a second look. I thought it said "Boiling infant."
That's okay When I see dcg, my brain reads DOG
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