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  #1  
Old 05-21-2012, 08:07 AM
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It was hard not to cry while reading this article. I also can't believe what some providers have done - the bad apples are definitely ruining it for us good providers. So sad and I am just amazed at the lengths people will go - I just really can't believe it

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle...152163185.html
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:31 AM
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Sad, but a good article. I can't believe the numbers of kids that some states allow. I'm licensed for 8, but unless I take school age it's really effectively 6 (because of the ages allowed), with two infants at any time.

I can't imagine being able to care for 10 or 12 kids in a home setting by myself effectively.

One weird thing that popped out to me in the article was the comment by the parent whose child died of a bronchial infection - "Our infant daughter needed almost constant care," said Marcus Eytcheson, Ainsley's father. "She obviously didn't get it." - WTH was you child doing in a daycare setting if that was the case? Crazy.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:33 AM
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That is awful and makes those of us who follow rules look bad. Not all providers are ao money hungry that they put the children in danger with over-capacity. There are state limits and there are personal limits, and if the state limit is higher than your own personal limit you need to be responsible enough to not add additional children to your care. This is sad
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SunshineMama View Post
That is awful and makes those of us who follow rules look bad. Not all providers are ao money hungry that they put the children in danger with over-capacity. There are state limits and there are personal limits, and if the state limit is higher than your own personal limit you need to be responsible enough to not add additional children to your care. This is sad

I could not have said it better - this is exactly my thought as well. I will be licensed for 10 (basically 4 school agers, 3 preschoolers, 3 toddlers/infants, but only 2 can be under 12 mo.), but I'm starting at 6 and have decided that if I take any infants at all it is only going to be one at any given time - the rest of my toddler/infant spots will be toddlers over the age of 1. My personal limit may very well be less than the state limit and I'm ok with that.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:04 AM
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I was upset, sad, all the range of emotions when reading this article.

I am very sad for the loss those parents have had to be forced to deal with. However, not every provider is over numbers. Why don't they look at the root of some issues.

The one that really bothered me was the 3 month old that died after being laid on the FLOOR, on his TUMMY, with a BLANKET.... Um has anyone else heard that we are to lay them on their BACK in a CRIB with NO items around them? Why are we blaming it on how many kids she had? Yes, I understand she had 18 kids that day, but something tells me she'd have done the same thing whether or not she had 18 kids or 2. That is blatent disregard for safety.

Also the one that had the broncial infection. If she needed constant care, why was she not at home with her parents or in the hospital? She should NOT have been in daycare! That one lies on the parents in my opinion. Do NOT blame the daycare provider because she didn't sit and stare at your child the whole day.

I do think there need to be stronger penalties if caught over the limit and I do believe licensors should do more random checks. I've never had a problem with my licensor just dropping in when she's in town. She'll often come by just to say hi and see how things are going. Doesn't bother me, I think she's a nice lady and it often gives me a chance to speak one on one with her about issues or concerns.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:38 AM
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I believe this is the third article in a series that the Tribune is running. They are obviously hit pieces against home daycare coming after an unsuccessful attempt to unionize 11,500 home daycares in MN (in my opinion).

They are taking isolated cases of providers who blatantly disregarded the rules and regulations in place; they were clearly at fault and as a result, children died. For those of us who follow the rules to the letter, these articles are frustrating at the least. I have a C3 Group License which allows me 14 kids WITH A SECOND ADULT, not a 12 year old. I have had it for more than 15 years and I have never felt like I needed to justify the number of kids I have. Yet, every parent who dropped off today was doing a silent head count~you could see it! The other weird thing, it's usually mom OR dad who drops off. This morning I had 3 families where both mom AND dad came in to drop off. I feel like I need to send out an email addressing my license capacity and who is here on what days, I have 6 part time kids and 4 school age kids in addition to 5 full time kids, so faces change depending on the day of the week and time of day.

I also have the neighbor of one of the babies in the story...that makes it doubly hard, because I feel the pain of that family but I also feel the need to defend my profession, kwim?
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DCMom View Post
I believe this is the third article in a series that the Tribune is running. They are obviously hit pieces against home daycare coming after an unsuccessful attempt to unionize 11,500 home daycares in MN (in my opinion).

They are taking isolated cases of providers who blatantly disregarded the rules and regulations in place; they were clearly at fault and as a result, children died. For those of us who follow the rules to the letter, these articles are frustrating at the least. I have a C3 Group License which allows me 14 kids WITH A SECOND ADULT, not a 12 year old. I have had it for more than 15 years and I have never felt like I needed to justify the number of kids I have. Yet, every parent who dropped off today was doing a silent head count~you could see it! The other weird thing, it's usually mom OR dad who drops off. This morning I had 3 families where both mom AND dad came in to drop off. I feel like I need to send out an email addressing my license capacity and who is here on what days, I have 6 part time kids and 4 school age kids in addition to 5 full time kids, so faces change depending on the day of the week and time of day.

I also have the neighbor of one of the babies in the story...that makes it doubly hard, because I feel the pain of that family but I also feel the need to defend my profession, kwim?
Wow - having the neighbor of one of the babies does make it more personal for you.
It's sad that people who really trust you and have been bringing their kid to your place for however long have now started counting children and such after such an article has been published. I'm sure they don't know the licensing regulations and numbers either.
I never thought of this being kind of a result of the unionization (is that word?lol) happening, but now that you bring it up it really makes sense.

All of this just really gets to me and I while I like that these bad apples are being exposed, it also really impacts those who are honest and great and have a real love for doing daycare and working with children.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MissK View Post
Wow - having the neighbor of one of the babies does make it more personal for you.
It's sad that people who really trust you and have been bringing their kid to your place for however long have now started counting children and such after such an article has been published. I'm sure they don't know the licensing regulations and numbers either.
I never thought of this being kind of a result of the unionization (is that word?lol) happening, but now that you bring it up it really makes sense.

All of this just really gets to me and I while I like that these bad apples are being exposed, it also really impacts those who are honest and great and have a real love for doing daycare and working with children.
I also, never thought of it from the result of unionization point of view. But it is very plausible. Sad, but a very good possibility. Almost like they are trying to use scare tactics to get us to unionize...
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:02 AM
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Very interesting point with the unionization bit. I would not have put 2 & 2 together.

I know recently the county I live in had training from our licensor addressing infants and sleeping due to the increase in "SIDS" deaths in daycares. One direct correlation she pointed out was the increase when we started allowing "Parental Sleep Directives"; allowing the parents to sign a form to dictate to providers how their infant should sleep, assuming it was different than on the back, in the crib).

Thankfully, I have the right to say no to the directive and if the parents insist they have the right to find another source of care for their child, without it being considered discrimination.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMom View Post
I believe this is the third article in a series that the Tribune is running. They are obviously hit pieces against home daycare coming after an unsuccessful attempt to unionize 11,500 home daycares in MN (in my opinion).

They are taking isolated cases of providers who blatantly disregarded the rules and regulations in place; they were clearly at fault and as a result, children died. For those of us who follow the rules to the letter, these articles are frustrating at the least. I have a C3 Group License which allows me 14 kids WITH A SECOND ADULT, not a 12 year old. I have had it for more than 15 years and I have never felt like I needed to justify the number of kids I have. Yet, every parent who dropped off today was doing a silent head count~you could see it! The other weird thing, it's usually mom OR dad who drops off. This morning I had 3 families where both mom AND dad came in to drop off. I feel like I need to send out an email addressing my license capacity and who is here on what days, I have 6 part time kids and 4 school age kids in addition to 5 full time kids, so faces change depending on the day of the week and time of day.

I also have the neighbor of one of the babies in the story...that makes it doubly hard, because I feel the pain of that family but I also feel the need to defend my profession, kwim?
My heart was saddened by this article. I personally feel the weight of the world on me when someone passes over their infant, somedays more than I would like, simply because the job of watching someone elses "everything" is a serious job.

I agree 100% with what you wrote. I have seen the three articles they so recently stumbled upon. I too wondered immediately, who was sending these reports to the editors and where were the ideas for these stories really coming from. The union efforts are powerful and yes if they want to limit numbers they certainly can find enough cases of bad providers to ruin it for the rest of us.

Just an fyi, I have never cared for a number close to my lic capacity. It is more than I can personally handle, however I do not think the ignorance of some should effect the whole.

And I too was wondering why the families chose to leave their children in settings which they believed to be unsafe? Is it because there is a high demand for infant care thus leading to fewer options or was it poor parenting choices? Here we have so many people calling for infant spaces you barely age someone up before you have another one coming in. I think it would be easy to get sucked into taking too many for an already existing family, especially because the need for providers who take infants is far lower than the number of people looking for infant care. So, if we limit the number of infants providers can take then what, this would only make the demand greater, the availablity less, seems like a no win, IMO.

Last edited by jojosmommy; 05-21-2012 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Added a note
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2012, 11:50 AM
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Here we have so many people calling for infant spaces you barely age someone up before you have another one coming in. I think it would be easy to get sucked into taking too many for an already existing family, especially because the need for providers who take infants is far lower than the number of people looking for infant care. So, if we limit the number of infants providers can take then what, this would only make the demand greater, the availablity less, seems like a no win, IMO.
I agree. It is such a juggling game ~ either ages or numbers. The 6 month old infant that I have in my lap as I type, paid a two week non-refundable deposit over a year ago. I don't charge to hold infant spots, because I don't actually have them when people are looking for them. My next infant toddler spot is not open until October (when a current toddler ages up) but the family is paying for it from September 1 on because technically I have an open spot and they don't want me to fill it until their infant fits in my age ratios. It's hard for providers, it's hard for parents. Variances are understandably hard to get; I used to be able to get one to overlap age groups (not total numbers, just ages) especially around the magic 'May 10' date, but after this I don't know that I would want to even request one.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SunshineMama View Post
That is awful and makes those of us who follow rules look bad. Not all providers are ao money hungry that they put the children in danger with over-capacity. There are state limits and there are personal limits, and if the state limit is higher than your own personal limit you need to be responsible enough to not add additional children to your care. This is sad
I think this is an important distinction. If I have more challenging children, or lots of very young two's for instance, I keep my numbers lower through attrition. Keep in mind, the 10 in Minnesota is 8 under school age.

Parents also have a responsibility to be sure these numbers are followed, and report when they are not. I'd love to see more details on the data reported in this article. While tragic, this article came about because of the directive licensed child care providers in Minnesota were issued recently about concerns with the high number of infant deaths in family-based child care homes. Correlations cannot automatically be drawn between high numbers of infant deaths and overcrowding, or negligence, or improper sleep arrangements. No study was actually done which reduced variables and examined causation. How many infants were in child care the last two years vs the years previous? Is that a factor? Based on this article, we don't have enough information to draw any real conclusions.

To be clear, the directive I speak of actually stated that more information was needed, and the state was taking steps to examine the data to come to more concrete conclusions.

It would be interesting to see the numbers across the board for each state, to even see if a correlation between legal capacity and infant deaths could be made at all.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:04 PM
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I think this is an important distinction. If I have more challenging children, or lots of very young two's for instance, I keep my numbers lower through attrition. Keep in mind, the 10 in Minnesota is 8 under school age.

Parents also have a responsibility to be sure these numbers are followed, and report when they are not. I'd love to see more details on the data reported in this article. While tragic, this article came about because of the directive licensed child care providers in Minnesota were issued recently about concerns with the high number of infant deaths in family-based child care homes. Correlations cannot automatically be drawn between high numbers of infant deaths and overcrowding, or negligence, or improper sleep arrangements. No study was actually done which reduced variables and examined causation. How many infants were in child care the last two years vs the years previous? Is that a factor? Based on this article, we don't have enough information to draw any real conclusions.

To be clear, the directive I speak of actually stated that more information was needed, and the state was taking steps to examine the data to come to more concrete conclusions.

It would be interesting to see the numbers across the board for each state, to even see if a correlation between legal capacity and infant deaths could be made at all.

Very good post and I agree completely
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