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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Desperate
daycare4life 07:06 AM 09-11-2013
I also live in PA and have watched children in my home for 10 yrs. People I have never met have said great things about me. I hear it all the time. So and so said you are awesome with the kids and you do so much. I feel honored when I hear this and strive to continue. A neighbor turned me in for watching children. They came to my house 3 times and found nothing. I took an interest in applying for a group home license. I took the class and my next step was a board hearing on which I was denied. I was devistated. All my parents, friends and family were there. We out numbered the people against me. BUT because a neighbor of mine is a bigwig they knew someone on the board and I was done for. Not only would they not let me get a group home license they denied me to even get a regulat license. They told me the township allows me to watch 3 children and that should be good enough.
I continued watching all my children because my parents said they do not want to go to anyone else. Sure enough the neighbore called again and they showed up 2 weeks ago. I now have been given a letter saying I am to "cease and Desist" I had parents here when I received the letter. Every one of them said no way we are not leaving. I am at a loss on what to do. I have run a daycare for 21 yrs, this is all I know and LOVE. When I went through the process to get licensed it colst me $3,000. I cannot do it again. I need help. I am so depressed and feel like I am being harrased. If it were not for these little feet running through my door every morning I would not want to go on.
Forgive me for any mispellings I am writing this through glossed eyes.
I continued watching all my children because my parents said they do not want to go to anyone else. Sure enough the neighbore called again and they showed up 2 weeks ago. I now have been given a letter saying I am to "cease and Desist" I had parents here when I received the letter. Every one of them said no way we are not leaving. I am at a loss on what to do. I have run a daycare for 21 yrs, this is all I know and LOVE. When I went through the process to get licensed it colst me $3,000. I cannot do it again. I need help. I am so depressed and feel like I am being harrased. If it were not for these little feet running through my door every morning I would not want to go on.
Forgive me for any mispellings I am writing this through glossed eyes.
Blackcat31 07:14 AM 09-11-2013
I am sorry you are stressed about this but honestly, you ARE doing something you aren't suppose to do.....being good at it has NOTHING to do with whether your city, county, state or whatever allows you to do it.
My advice would be to see if there are any alternatives to providing care in your home, such as renting a space somewhere or working in a center or something similar.
I understand that you are devastated but again, laws are laws and we can't just go against them because we feel we are good at what we do or because parents say you are great at watching/caring for their children.
You were basically told to stop the first time you were turned in so you DO know better....unfortunately, your neighbor had every right to turn you in, if you still continued to provide care for more than 3 children.
I wish I had better advice, but I don't.
Again, I am sorry this happened to you.
My advice would be to see if there are any alternatives to providing care in your home, such as renting a space somewhere or working in a center or something similar.
I understand that you are devastated but again, laws are laws and we can't just go against them because we feel we are good at what we do or because parents say you are great at watching/caring for their children.
You were basically told to stop the first time you were turned in so you DO know better....unfortunately, your neighbor had every right to turn you in, if you still continued to provide care for more than 3 children.
I wish I had better advice, but I don't.
Again, I am sorry this happened to you.
Cat Herder 07:15 AM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by daycare4life:
I took an interest in applying for a group home license.
I was denied. they denied me to even get a regular license.
I continued watching all my children.
I now have been given a letter saying I am to "cease and Desist"
I am at a loss on what to do.
I am sorry hun, but it seems pretty cut and dry to me. You should Cease and Desist.I took an interest in applying for a group home license.
I was denied. they denied me to even get a regular license.
I continued watching all my children.
I now have been given a letter saying I am to "cease and Desist"
I am at a loss on what to do.
Your clients can not give you permission to do the wrong thing no matter how much you love it.
Have you considered applying for a job in a licensed center?
If you get a conviction on all of this working with kids in any capacity will no longer be an option for you. Think ahead.
lovemylife 07:24 AM 09-11-2013
That is a pain! I am so sorry!!!! The only thing I can think of is move somewhere else. But for most people that wouldn't be an option. I'm sorry! Good luck!
MyAngels 09:24 AM 09-11-2013
For right now you should cease and desist.
If you truly feel you've been wrongly denied a license I'd consider hiring a lawyer and put up a fight.
If you truly feel you've been wrongly denied a license I'd consider hiring a lawyer and put up a fight.
Maria2013 09:44 AM 09-11-2013
sorry you are going through this but if I were you, I'd first stop caring for kids to avoid a possible fine, then I would research laws and citizen's rights etc to see if the situation can be reversed
good luck to you
good luck to you
Laurel 09:53 AM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by daycare4life:
I also live in PA and have watched children in my home for 10 yrs. People I have never met have said great things about me. I hear it all the time. So and so said you are awesome with the kids and you do so much. I feel honored when I hear this and strive to continue. A neighbor turned me in for watching children. They came to my house 3 times and found nothing. I took an interest in applying for a group home license. I took the class and my next step was a board hearing on which I was denied. I was devistated. All my parents, friends and family were there. We out numbered the people against me. BUT because a neighbor of mine is a bigwig they knew someone on the board and I was done for. Not only would they not let me get a group home license they denied me to even get a regulat license. They told me the township allows me to watch 3 children and that should be good enough.
I continued watching all my children because my parents said they do not want to go to anyone else. Sure enough the neighbore called again and they showed up 2 weeks ago. I now have been given a letter saying I am to "cease and Desist" I had parents here when I received the letter. Every one of them said no way we are not leaving. I am at a loss on what to do. I have run a daycare for 21 yrs, this is all I know and LOVE. When I went through the process to get licensed it colst me $3,000. I cannot do it again. I need help. I am so depressed and feel like I am being harrased. If it were not for these little feet running through my door every morning I would not want to go on.
Forgive me for any mispellings I am writing this through glossed eyes.
You say you got licensed. Did they revoke your license or do you mean in Pennsylvania you can only watch 3 with a license? Here we get re-licensed every year. As long as our inspection goes well, we are relicensed.I also live in PA and have watched children in my home for 10 yrs. People I have never met have said great things about me. I hear it all the time. So and so said you are awesome with the kids and you do so much. I feel honored when I hear this and strive to continue. A neighbor turned me in for watching children. They came to my house 3 times and found nothing. I took an interest in applying for a group home license. I took the class and my next step was a board hearing on which I was denied. I was devistated. All my parents, friends and family were there. We out numbered the people against me. BUT because a neighbor of mine is a bigwig they knew someone on the board and I was done for. Not only would they not let me get a group home license they denied me to even get a regulat license. They told me the township allows me to watch 3 children and that should be good enough.
I continued watching all my children because my parents said they do not want to go to anyone else. Sure enough the neighbore called again and they showed up 2 weeks ago. I now have been given a letter saying I am to "cease and Desist" I had parents here when I received the letter. Every one of them said no way we are not leaving. I am at a loss on what to do. I have run a daycare for 21 yrs, this is all I know and LOVE. When I went through the process to get licensed it colst me $3,000. I cannot do it again. I need help. I am so depressed and feel like I am being harrased. If it were not for these little feet running through my door every morning I would not want to go on.
Forgive me for any mispellings I am writing this through glossed eyes.
Are the people that are telling you to cease and desist from the city, county or state? I'm asking because here cities or counties can regulate our business but STATE law gives us permission to run a regular sized child care. Cities and counties cannot tell us we can't but they can with Large daycares. So you might want to check with your state attorney's office to see if this might be the same where you live.
For now, you'll have to only watch three or, like someone else said, if you get in trouble you may not be able to watch children at all.
Years ago, my provider friend was watching children without a license and was told to cease and desist until she got licensed (which she did). However, in the interim she watched children at her son's house in a different area. Do you maybe have an option to watch them somewhere else...at least for now?
Good luck!
Laurel
cheerfuldom 10:00 AM 09-11-2013
I am with the others, you need to stop watching kids at your house. If I was your neighbor and knew you had close to a dozen kids and no license (which is illegal here as well), I would call on you too. I am just being honest. Even if you are Mary Poppins 2.0, you need to follow the regulations. If they dont allow it, you can adjust to a smaller group, get a new job or move. I am sorry you are going thru this but again, you need to follow the local laws.
momofboys 10:08 AM 09-11-2013
Sorry for your sadness but the law is the law. You need to cut back to 3 kids.
Margarete 10:32 AM 09-11-2013
I did a little reading on PA http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/05...ap3290toc.html and it looks like they can only 'deny' you for certain things. It also looks like you may be able to have a 'correction' period if this was done suddenly. They shouldn't have revoked your small certificate on applying for a large without 'reason' (Did they give you one?). Appeal this! And do what you can to make sure you are following the laws in the mean time, failing to follow the laws IS valid reason to deny you getting your license back.
§ 3290.12. Negative sanctions.
(a) If the Department’s agent records noncompliance with the registration law or this chapter during an inspection, the operator shall submit a written plan to correct the noncompliance. The operator shall establish in writing, with the Department’s agent, an acceptable period of time in which the noncompliance will be corrected.
(b) The Department may deny issuance of a certificate of registration to an operator for one or more of the following reasons:
(1) Failure to certify compliance with the registration law or this chapter.
(2) Fraud or deceit in the self-certification process.
(3) Failure to meet the requirements of the CPSL.
(c) The Department may refuse to renew or may revoke a certificate of registration to an operator for one or more of the following reasons:
(1) Noncompliance with the registration law or this chapter.
(2) Fraud or deceit in the self-certification process.
(3) Lending, borrowing or using the certificate of another operator, or in any way knowingly aiding the improper issuance of a certificate of registration.
(4) Gross incompetence, negligence or misconduct in operating the facility.
(5) Mistreating or abusing children cared for in the facility.
(6) Failure to submit to the Department an acceptable plan to correct noncompliance.
(7) Failure to comply with the acceptable plan to correct noncompliance.
.........
§ 3290.12. Negative sanctions.
(a) If the Department’s agent records noncompliance with the registration law or this chapter during an inspection, the operator shall submit a written plan to correct the noncompliance. The operator shall establish in writing, with the Department’s agent, an acceptable period of time in which the noncompliance will be corrected.
(b) The Department may deny issuance of a certificate of registration to an operator for one or more of the following reasons:
(1) Failure to certify compliance with the registration law or this chapter.
(2) Fraud or deceit in the self-certification process.
(3) Failure to meet the requirements of the CPSL.
(c) The Department may refuse to renew or may revoke a certificate of registration to an operator for one or more of the following reasons:
(1) Noncompliance with the registration law or this chapter.
(2) Fraud or deceit in the self-certification process.
(3) Lending, borrowing or using the certificate of another operator, or in any way knowingly aiding the improper issuance of a certificate of registration.
(4) Gross incompetence, negligence or misconduct in operating the facility.
(5) Mistreating or abusing children cared for in the facility.
(6) Failure to submit to the Department an acceptable plan to correct noncompliance.
(7) Failure to comply with the acceptable plan to correct noncompliance.
.........
Blackcat31 10:37 AM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
You say you got licensed. Did they revoke your license or do you mean in Pennsylvania you can only watch 3 with a license?
You say you got licensed. Did they revoke your license or do you mean in Pennsylvania you can only watch 3 with a license?
Originally Posted by Margarete:
I did a little reading on PA http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/05...ap3290toc.html and it looks like they can only 'deny' you for certain things. It also looks like you may be able to have a 'correction' period if this was done suddenly. They shouldn't have revoked your small certificate on applying for a large without 'reason' (Did they give you one?). Appeal this! And do what you can to make sure you are following the laws in the mean time, failing to follow the laws IS valid reason to deny you getting your license back.
§ 3290.12. Negative sanctions.
(a) If the Department’s agent records noncompliance with the registration law or this chapter during an inspection, the operator shall submit a written plan to correct the noncompliance. The operator shall establish in writing, with the Department’s agent, an acceptable period of time in which the noncompliance will be corrected.
(b) The Department may deny issuance of a certificate of registration to an operator for one or more of the following reasons:
(1) Failure to certify compliance with the registration law or this chapter.
(2) Fraud or deceit in the self-certification process.
(3) Failure to meet the requirements of the CPSL.
(c) The Department may refuse to renew or may revoke a certificate of registration to an operator for one or more of the following reasons:
(1) Noncompliance with the registration law or this chapter.
(2) Fraud or deceit in the self-certification process.
(3) Lending, borrowing or using the certificate of another operator, or in any way knowingly aiding the improper issuance of a certificate of registration.
(4) Gross incompetence, negligence or misconduct in operating the facility.
(5) Mistreating or abusing children cared for in the facility.
(6) Failure to submit to the Department an acceptable plan to correct noncompliance.
(7) Failure to comply with the acceptable plan to correct noncompliance.
.........
From what I read, OP was denied the basic license so she never actually had a valid license. I did a little reading on PA http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/05...ap3290toc.html and it looks like they can only 'deny' you for certain things. It also looks like you may be able to have a 'correction' period if this was done suddenly. They shouldn't have revoked your small certificate on applying for a large without 'reason' (Did they give you one?). Appeal this! And do what you can to make sure you are following the laws in the mean time, failing to follow the laws IS valid reason to deny you getting your license back.
§ 3290.12. Negative sanctions.
(a) If the Department’s agent records noncompliance with the registration law or this chapter during an inspection, the operator shall submit a written plan to correct the noncompliance. The operator shall establish in writing, with the Department’s agent, an acceptable period of time in which the noncompliance will be corrected.
(b) The Department may deny issuance of a certificate of registration to an operator for one or more of the following reasons:
(1) Failure to certify compliance with the registration law or this chapter.
(2) Fraud or deceit in the self-certification process.
(3) Failure to meet the requirements of the CPSL.
(c) The Department may refuse to renew or may revoke a certificate of registration to an operator for one or more of the following reasons:
(1) Noncompliance with the registration law or this chapter.
(2) Fraud or deceit in the self-certification process.
(3) Lending, borrowing or using the certificate of another operator, or in any way knowingly aiding the improper issuance of a certificate of registration.
(4) Gross incompetence, negligence or misconduct in operating the facility.
(5) Mistreating or abusing children cared for in the facility.
(6) Failure to submit to the Department an acceptable plan to correct noncompliance.
(7) Failure to comply with the acceptable plan to correct noncompliance.
.........
I can see why they would deny her since she was asked to stop and she did not stop, even after being denied the license....I am assuming that is why she is now receiving a Cease and Desist letter now. I would think her actions fall under the failure to comply with an acceptable plan to correct the noncompliance and/or non-compliance with state laws and/or deceipt in the certification process.
OP seems to think it was due to some bigwig knowing someone who knew someone who had/has it out for her...but I think it has more to do with her ignoring the laws/rules of her state.
Willow 10:44 AM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
From what I read, OP was denied the basic license so she never actually had a valid license.
I can see why they would deny her since she was asked to stop and she did not stop, even after being denied the license....I am assuming that is why she is now receiving a Cease and Desist letter now. I would think her actions fall under the failure to comply with an acceptable plan to correct the noncompliance and/or non-compliance with state laws and/or deceipt in the certification process.
OP seems to think it was due to some bigwig knowing someone who knew someone who had/has it out for her...but I think it has more to do with her ignoring the laws/rules of her state.
Agree. From what I read, OP was denied the basic license so she never actually had a valid license.
I can see why they would deny her since she was asked to stop and she did not stop, even after being denied the license....I am assuming that is why she is now receiving a Cease and Desist letter now. I would think her actions fall under the failure to comply with an acceptable plan to correct the noncompliance and/or non-compliance with state laws and/or deceipt in the certification process.
OP seems to think it was due to some bigwig knowing someone who knew someone who had/has it out for her...but I think it has more to do with her ignoring the laws/rules of her state.
If the state says no and you go ahead and operate outside the confines of the law regardless, why on earth would they say yes later on? And to an even larger operation?
snbauser 10:44 AM 09-11-2013
Sorry this is happening to you.
First, if you received a cease and desist letter, you need to follow the law. Like someone else said, being good at what you do does not give you the right to break the law. And besides, how good are you if you are setting an example for the kids that it is okay to break a law when you don't agree with it? If you don't like the law and think it needs to be changed, then that is what you need to work towards.
Second, I'm a little confused on your post. Did you have a license initially for regular family child care? You said she called and the state came out 3 times and found nothing. So I'm guessing you had one or you only had 3 kids when they came. If you had one, I would look into how/why they can revoke or refuse to renew your license. Here we can have a family child care (5 kids) without town/city approval but depending on whether you live in a subdivision or not and what that subdivision allows can stop you. I know when we moved here we specifically looked for subdivisions that allowed home businesses. For a larger facility we have to be rezoned and get approval from all of our immediate neighbors.
First, if you received a cease and desist letter, you need to follow the law. Like someone else said, being good at what you do does not give you the right to break the law. And besides, how good are you if you are setting an example for the kids that it is okay to break a law when you don't agree with it? If you don't like the law and think it needs to be changed, then that is what you need to work towards.
Second, I'm a little confused on your post. Did you have a license initially for regular family child care? You said she called and the state came out 3 times and found nothing. So I'm guessing you had one or you only had 3 kids when they came. If you had one, I would look into how/why they can revoke or refuse to renew your license. Here we can have a family child care (5 kids) without town/city approval but depending on whether you live in a subdivision or not and what that subdivision allows can stop you. I know when we moved here we specifically looked for subdivisions that allowed home businesses. For a larger facility we have to be rezoned and get approval from all of our immediate neighbors.
Margarete 10:47 AM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
From what I read, OP was denied the basic license so she never actually had a valid license.
I can see why they would deny her since she was asked to stop and she did not stop, even after being denied the license....I am assuming that is why she is now receiving a Cease and Desist letter now. I would think her actions fall under the failure to comply with an acceptable plan to correct the noncompliance and/or non-compliance with state laws and/or deceipt in the certification process.
OP seems to think it was due to some bigwig knowing someone who knew someone who had/has it out for her...but I think it has more to do with her ignoring the laws/rules of her state.
I'm reading that she had a small, the neighbor has been complaining, and she got 3 visits, where they determined everything was fine and legal. Then when she applied for a large, that they denied her, and then revoked her small. So at this point she 'is' operating out of compliance.. however if it's still within 30 days of that revocation she still may be able to appeal, and or ask for a correction period legally.From what I read, OP was denied the basic license so she never actually had a valid license.
I can see why they would deny her since she was asked to stop and she did not stop, even after being denied the license....I am assuming that is why she is now receiving a Cease and Desist letter now. I would think her actions fall under the failure to comply with an acceptable plan to correct the noncompliance and/or non-compliance with state laws and/or deceipt in the certification process.
OP seems to think it was due to some bigwig knowing someone who knew someone who had/has it out for her...but I think it has more to do with her ignoring the laws/rules of her state.
Willow 10:50 AM 09-11-2013
I do wonder why it cost $3000 to apply for a regular license as well.....unless there were substantial home repairs needed to satisfy fire inspection and licensing regs I have no clue why or how it would cost that much.
To be licensed where I'm at it took a couple of training classes, a background check and a fire inspection. Total was maybe $150.
Anyone else know why it would cost so much elsewhere? I've never heard a start up number that high (unless a provider is starting from scratch and wants to spend that much on equipment?)??
To be licensed where I'm at it took a couple of training classes, a background check and a fire inspection. Total was maybe $150.
Anyone else know why it would cost so much elsewhere? I've never heard a start up number that high (unless a provider is starting from scratch and wants to spend that much on equipment?)??
LK5kids 10:58 AM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
For right now you should cease and desist.
If you truly feel you've been wrongly denied a license I'd consider hiring a lawyer and put up a fight.
For right now you should cease and desist.
If you truly feel you've been wrongly denied a license I'd consider hiring a lawyer and put up a fight.
My thoughts exactly!
Cat Herder 11:03 AM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
I do wonder why it cost $3000 to apply for a regular license as well.....unless there were substantial home repairs needed to satisfy fire inspection and licensing regs I have no clue why or how it would cost that much.
To be licensed where I'm at it took a couple of training classes, a background check and a fire inspection. Total was maybe $150.
Anyone else know why it would cost so much elsewhere? I've never heard a start up number that high (unless a provider is starting from scratch and wants to spend that much on equipment?)??
I agree....I do wonder why it cost $3000 to apply for a regular license as well.....unless there were substantial home repairs needed to satisfy fire inspection and licensing regs I have no clue why or how it would cost that much.
To be licensed where I'm at it took a couple of training classes, a background check and a fire inspection. Total was maybe $150.
Anyone else know why it would cost so much elsewhere? I've never heard a start up number that high (unless a provider is starting from scratch and wants to spend that much on equipment?)??
My start up in this house was pretty expensive but that was because I had to have a whole home filtration unit installed (I have a spring fed well), full fence installed and septic tank inspection before I was able to keep my full load of kids. All required for licensure.
In the last 3 houses (all new construction) it only cost me $50 per year.
***Now, my out of pocket "training" cost is up to $400 so far this year... Restocking art supplies, curriculum, replacing toys and updating furniture/cribs/equipment have me at about $2500 this year as well.
Maybe some of that cost is what she is referring to?
Memc2001 12:36 PM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am sorry you are stressed about this but honestly, you ARE doing something you aren't suppose to do.....being good at it has NOTHING to do with whether your city, county, state or whatever allows you to do it.
My advice would be to see if there are any alternatives to providing care in your home, such as renting a space somewhere or working in a center or something similar.
I understand that you are devastated but again, laws are laws and we can't just go against them because we feel we are good at what we do or because parents say you are great at watching/caring for their children.
You were basically told to stop the first time you were turned in so you DO know better....unfortunately, your neighbor had every right to turn you in, if you still continued to provide care for more than 3 children.
I wish I had better advice, but I don't.
Again, I am sorry this happened to you.
I am sorry you are stressed about this but honestly, you ARE doing something you aren't suppose to do.....being good at it has NOTHING to do with whether your city, county, state or whatever allows you to do it.
My advice would be to see if there are any alternatives to providing care in your home, such as renting a space somewhere or working in a center or something similar.
I understand that you are devastated but again, laws are laws and we can't just go against them because we feel we are good at what we do or because parents say you are great at watching/caring for their children.
You were basically told to stop the first time you were turned in so you DO know better....unfortunately, your neighbor had every right to turn you in, if you still continued to provide care for more than 3 children.
I wish I had better advice, but I don't.
Again, I am sorry this happened to you.
Blackcat31 12:41 PM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Margarete:
I'm reading that she had a small, the neighbor has been complaining, and she got 3 visits, where they determined everything was fine and legal. Then when she applied for a large, that they denied her, and then revoked her small. So at this point she 'is' operating out of compliance.. however if it's still within 30 days of that revocation she still may be able to appeal, and or ask for a correction period legally.
I thought that too.... and it still may very well be the case but I guess the words "Not only would they not let me get a group home license "they denied me to even get a regular license." says to me that she never had a regular license....if she did, I would think she would have said, "keep the regular license"...kwim? I'm reading that she had a small, the neighbor has been complaining, and she got 3 visits, where they determined everything was fine and legal. Then when she applied for a large, that they denied her, and then revoked her small. So at this point she 'is' operating out of compliance.. however if it's still within 30 days of that revocation she still may be able to appeal, and or ask for a correction period legally.
But yes, you are right....either way, she was denied and is now illegally providing care.
Plus like you mentioned, she could still try and appeal if it's within the 30 days allowed...
Memc2001 12:42 PM 09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am sorry you are stressed about this but honestly, you ARE doing something you aren't suppose to do.....being good at it has NOTHING to do with whether your city, county, state or whatever allows you to do it.
My advice would be to see if there are any alternatives to providing care in your home, such as renting a space somewhere or working in a center or something similar.
I understand that you are devastated but again, laws are laws and we can't just go against them because we feel we are good at what we do or because parents say you are great at watching/caring for their children.
You were basically told to stop the first time you were turned in so you DO know better....unfortunately, your neighbor had every right to turn you in, if you still continued to provide care for more than 3 children.
I wish I had better advice, but I don't.
Again, I am sorry this happened to you.
I have been "doing daycare" for seven years. But I would not be able to operate the way I do, watching the number of kids I do if I didn't live where I do (SW MO, rural) Even if I lived in another town, it would be a challenge because of laws and ordinances limiting numbers and locations. I have been very lucky. I want to move some day so I have chosen to go back to school and become a dental hygienist. I know that pursuing this anywhere else would be too trying and expensive. I have looked at other states costs and regulations and know they make it very difficult if not impossible for a small business to want to operate. I am sorry you are stressed about this but honestly, you ARE doing something you aren't suppose to do.....being good at it has NOTHING to do with whether your city, county, state or whatever allows you to do it.
My advice would be to see if there are any alternatives to providing care in your home, such as renting a space somewhere or working in a center or something similar.
I understand that you are devastated but again, laws are laws and we can't just go against them because we feel we are good at what we do or because parents say you are great at watching/caring for their children.
You were basically told to stop the first time you were turned in so you DO know better....unfortunately, your neighbor had every right to turn you in, if you still continued to provide care for more than 3 children.
I wish I had better advice, but I don't.
Again, I am sorry this happened to you.
I guess what I am trying to say is, if you truly love what you do and are insisting on continuing, you will have to find a new place to operate. Otherwise, move on. Risking yourself legally is a choice I am not willing to take, but it's one you will have to decide. You could face prosecution.
Unregistered 12:17 PM 09-12-2013
I am depressed enough and I thought I would get support here but I guess I was wrong. I have run a Day Care for 21 years. In 4 states because my husband is active duty. I have been licensed in every state but PA because my "township" said no. Not the state, the township. Not because my house needs repairs or anything like that. I live in a beautiful house and have 1,000 sq ft dedicated to my DC kids. I am more than willing to get licensed and abide by "the law". The 3 times DCW came out it was because of a neighbor saying I was watching some crazy amount of kids and I was not. Then they showed up again because of an anonamious call as usual and I had 1 extra due to an un scheduled drop off. I also had another woman here with me so really it should not have even been an issue. And for the record, it is because of the neighbor who is a bigwig she told me herself that she will get what she wants because she has the money. Most of you are making me out to be a bad person. That hurts because I am far from it. It blows my mind that my husband has been serving our country for 29 yrs and I get denied because of a couple neighbors that said if I get the license their property value will go down. "REALLY"!!! I have never come across people as hateful and self centered as the people in YORK, PA. I took the class, I already had all my clearances, and my house is safety checked. I have a year to be in compliance from taking the class (now only 5 months left), the next step was zoning in the township, that is where it ended. Yes it cost me $3,000. It was $450 to stand in front of the board, $250 for the sign I "had" to put in my yard and I hired a lawyer. Unfortunately the person I hired passed me to his son and he just was not experienced enough. One person that was at the meeting made fun of people, called me stupid, and ignorant. Never in my life saw this person before but he had every right to be there because he is from the same township. He was rude, sitting in the back mocking people as they spoke. Found out later he heard from a friend what the meeting was about and he said " I have nothing to do and it doesn't cost me anything so I'm going to have fun with it". Nice to know my life is a joke that someone find entertaining. I thought maybe the people here would understand how hurtful this is and since you care for children as well you could maybe sypasize. I do thank the person that looked all that information up, that was so kind of you. I do have all that information in the book I got from the class I had to take.
Thank You
Thank You
Cat Herder 12:31 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am depressed enough and I thought I would get support here but I guess I was wrong.
I thought maybe the people here would understand how hurtful this is and since you care for children as well you could maybe sypasize.
Thank You
We are supporting you. Just not the way you want us to. I am depressed enough and I thought I would get support here but I guess I was wrong.
I thought maybe the people here would understand how hurtful this is and since you care for children as well you could maybe sypasize.
Thank You
You have three options.... fight it out in court, move or give up.
Running your daycare illegally after receiving a Cease and Desist order just is not one of those three.
My husband is also (former) military, does not change the laws for me either.
NO, it is not fair. It just IS. I see no other options and sugar coating this will NEVER help you.
This is me, supporting you with simple truth.
Rockgirl 12:36 PM 09-12-2013
I didn't read any comments where anyone said you're a bad person. Most people are just advising you to follow the law before you get in more trouble. It wouldn't solve your problem for everyone here to tell you to just ignore the notice and keep doing daycare, right?
Unregistered 12:36 PM 09-12-2013
I am very surprised by some of the comments made. Im sorry you haven't Received more sympathy!!! I'm no help because I don't know the law in PA. But if you can I would fight it with everything you have! Call and bug the people!! As for the neighbor, it would be really hard for me to keep my cool with that person! Is it a possibility to rent a small space and continue daycare there? Good luck hun! Hugs!!!!
Unregistered 12:37 PM 09-12-2013
Also thank you to your husband for his service!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cat Herder 12:39 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I would fight it with everything you have! Call and bug the people!!!
^^ Talk to local church groups, contact local media, join local providers union, petition change.org, start a facebook campaign... Anything but ignore the order.I would fight it with everything you have! Call and bug the people!!!
There are ways to fight back.
Rockgirl 12:41 PM 09-12-2013
I see lots of compassion in this thread! Many people said how sorry they were about the OP going through the ordeal.
Blackcat31 12:49 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am very surprised by some of the comments made. Im sorry you haven't Received more sympathy!!! I'm no help because I don't know the law in PA. But if you can I would fight it with everything you have! Call and bug the people!! As for the neighbor, it would be really hard for me to keep my cool with that person! Is it a possibility to rent a small space and continue daycare there? Good luck hun! Hugs!!!!
I do have sympathy for OP because she is having a hard time working through this complex situation but I do NOT have sympathy for anyone who provides care illegally. I am very surprised by some of the comments made. Im sorry you haven't Received more sympathy!!! I'm no help because I don't know the law in PA. But if you can I would fight it with everything you have! Call and bug the people!! As for the neighbor, it would be really hard for me to keep my cool with that person! Is it a possibility to rent a small space and continue daycare there? Good luck hun! Hugs!!!!
I fully understand that there are some odd and unfair facts working against her but that still doesn't mean she can continue to provide care without meeting the township, state and/or city requirements.
I am grateful for her DH's service to our country but her DH fought for the rights of Americans who obey the laws of the country not so people could just do what they wanted when faced with unfairness.
Because we live in America, the OP has choices....one of which is to fight the unfairness she feels is happening to her.
missheather 12:50 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
We are supporting you. Just not the way you want us to.
NO, it is not fair. It just IS.
I see no other options and sugar coating this will NEVER help you.
This is me, supporting you with simple truth.
We are supporting you. Just not the way you want us to.
NO, it is not fair. It just IS.
I see no other options and sugar coating this will NEVER help you.
This is me, supporting you with simple truth.
Agree 100%
There are a lot of things you will find when dealing with the government (Local, State or Federal) that just seem unfair and a waste of time however "It Is What It Is"... Only way around these "laws" is to fight it in court and hope you get a favorable response.
Best of luck to you in the future!
missheather 12:51 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am grateful for her DH's service to our country but her DH fought for the rights of Americans who obey the laws of the country not so people could just do what they wanted when faced with unfairness.
Because we live in America, the OP has choices....one of which is to fight the unfairness she feels is happening to her.
I am grateful for her DH's service to our country but her DH fought for the rights of Americans who obey the laws of the country not so people could just do what they wanted when faced with unfairness.
Because we live in America, the OP has choices....one of which is to fight the unfairness she feels is happening to her.
So true!
Michael 01:56 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I do have sympathy for OP because she is having a hard time working through this complex situation but I do NOT have sympathy for anyone who provides care illegally.
I fully understand that there are some odd and unfair facts working against her but that still doesn't mean she can continue to provide care without meeting the township, state and/or city requirements.
I am grateful for her DH's service to our country but her DH fought for the rights of Americans who obey the laws of the country not so people could just do what they wanted when faced with unfairness.
Because we live in America, the OP has choices....one of which is to fight the unfairness she feels is happening to her.
I am sure the OP is probably a fine caregiver but we are a country of laws. I want to share with all of you someone that was concerned about an unlicensed daycare in PA. I just received this email sent to Daycare.com yesterday. I replied with information that was needed.I do have sympathy for OP because she is having a hard time working through this complex situation but I do NOT have sympathy for anyone who provides care illegally.
I fully understand that there are some odd and unfair facts working against her but that still doesn't mean she can continue to provide care without meeting the township, state and/or city requirements.
I am grateful for her DH's service to our country but her DH fought for the rights of Americans who obey the laws of the country not so people could just do what they wanted when faced with unfairness.
Because we live in America, the OP has choices....one of which is to fight the unfairness she feels is happening to her.
-----------------------------------email sent to Daycare.com
At ******* ** PA, you can find a daycare being run by a woman who gets paid under the table living in section 8 housing, she isn't licensed her home is not clean and the kitchen area is filthy. Her live in boyfriend doesn't work and lives off her welfare she gets from the state, I would appreciate immediate attention to this situation and unsanitary condition attached are pics of living room and kitchen area. thank you for your immediate action
==========================end of email
Attached:
IMAG0089.jpg (70.6 KB) IMAG0090.jpg (56.8 KB)
missheather 02:49 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
I am sure the OP is probably a fine caregiver but we are a country of laws. I want to share with all of you someone that was concerned about an unlicensed daycare in PA. I just received this yesterday. I replied with information that was needed.
-----------------------------------
At ******* ** PA, you can find a daycare being run by a woman who gets paid under the table living in section 8 housing, she isn't licensed her home is not clean and the kitchen area is filthy. Her live in boyfriend doesn't work and lives off her welfare she gets from the state, I would appreciate immediate attention to this situation and unsanitary condition attached are pics of living room and kitchen area. thank you for your immediate action
I am sure the OP is probably a fine caregiver but we are a country of laws. I want to share with all of you someone that was concerned about an unlicensed daycare in PA. I just received this yesterday. I replied with information that was needed.
-----------------------------------
At ******* ** PA, you can find a daycare being run by a woman who gets paid under the table living in section 8 housing, she isn't licensed her home is not clean and the kitchen area is filthy. Her live in boyfriend doesn't work and lives off her welfare she gets from the state, I would appreciate immediate attention to this situation and unsanitary condition attached are pics of living room and kitchen area. thank you for your immediate action
Wow I am shocked! As a parent I can not believe that another parent would leave a child there... Now I am not a clean-freak and am guilty of needing to vacuum and do a load of dishes BUT that house is shocking. Especially if children are there... Looks more like a Frathouse after a party!
Michael 02:54 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by missheather:
Wow I am shocked! As a parent I can not believe that another parent would leave a child there... Now I am not a clean-freak and am guilty of needing to vacuum and do a load of dishes BUT that house is shocking. Especially if children are there... Looks more like a Frathouse after a party!
The kitchen table in itself is a "who done it". Is that a milk gallon sitting out or is the table being used for trash?Wow I am shocked! As a parent I can not believe that another parent would leave a child there... Now I am not a clean-freak and am guilty of needing to vacuum and do a load of dishes BUT that house is shocking. Especially if children are there... Looks more like a Frathouse after a party!
msblake 03:08 PM 09-12-2013
Wow!! I don't understand how a parent could leave their child there?! Even if they can't see it from the door I'm sure you could smell it! What do you mean immediate action? What do you want the members to do? Sorry I'm new.
Cat Herder 03:10 PM 09-12-2013
I see a johnny jump up, stuffed animals and some kids shoes... but am wondering HOW these photos were taken???
Cat Herder 03:12 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by msblake:
What do you mean immediate action? What do you want the members to do? Sorry I'm new.
Few parents seem to know that they can (and should) report it to their own state licensing division. What do you mean immediate action? What do you want the members to do? Sorry I'm new.
Even a quick call to confirm a provider HAS a license helps the rest of us, operating legally, enormously. It is all a learning process..
They also don't realize they will get quicker action than we will.... It may be assumed that we are falsely reporting our competition and have a case of "sour grapes".
Familycare71 03:16 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I see a johnny jump up, stuffed animals and some kids shoes... but am wondering HOW these photos were taken???
That was what I was wondering!!! I see a johnny jump up, stuffed animals and some kids shoes... but am wondering HOW these photos were taken???
Michael 03:23 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by msblake:
Wow!! I don't understand how a parent could leave their child there?! Even if they can't see it from the door I'm sure you could smell it! What do you mean immediate action? What do you want the members to do? Sorry I'm new.
The text I pasted was from a concerned parent/inlaw/neighbor email that was send to Daycare.com. Wow!! I don't understand how a parent could leave their child there?! Even if they can't see it from the door I'm sure you could smell it! What do you mean immediate action? What do you want the members to do? Sorry I'm new.
Being that we are Daycare.com, many on the internet see us as a source for childcare related issues. We are just not a forum. The person who wrote us may have thought we were the state/national licensing agency overseeing these issues. We gave the recipient the information they needed to further their cause or intention. I decided to POST their email here, while omitting address information, since the thread's subject had turned to unlawful operations and I felt the email related. I placed it here for discussion.
Cat Herder 03:26 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
I decided to POST their email here, while omitting address information, since the thread's subject had turned to unlawful operations and I felt the email related. I placed it here for discussion.
Thank you!!!!!!! I decided to POST their email here, while omitting address information, since the thread's subject had turned to unlawful operations and I felt the email related. I placed it here for discussion.
Margarete 04:15 PM 09-12-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am depressed enough and I thought I would get support here but I guess I was wrong. I have run a Day Care for 21 years. In 4 states because my husband is active duty. I have been licensed in every state but PA because my "township" said no. Not the state, the township. Not because my house needs repairs or anything like that. I live in a beautiful house and have 1,000 sq ft dedicated to my DC kids. I am more than willing to get licensed and abide by "the law". The 3 times DCW came out it was because of a neighbor saying I was watching some crazy amount of kids and I was not. Then they showed up again because of an anonamious call as usual and I had 1 extra due to an un scheduled drop off. I also had another woman here with me so really it should not have even been an issue. And for the record, it is because of the neighbor who is a bigwig she told me herself that she will get what she wants because she has the money. Most of you are making me out to be a bad person. That hurts because I am far from it. It blows my mind that my husband has been serving our country for 29 yrs and I get denied because of a couple neighbors that said if I get the license their property value will go down. "REALLY"!!! I have never come across people as hateful and self centered as the people in YORK, PA. I took the class, I already had all my clearances, and my house is safety checked. I have a year to be in compliance from taking the class (now only 5 months left), the next step was zoning in the township, that is where it ended. Yes it cost me $3,000. It was $450 to stand in front of the board, $250 for the sign I "had" to put in my yard and I hired a lawyer. Unfortunately the person I hired passed me to his son and he just was not experienced enough. One person that was at the meeting made fun of people, called me stupid, and ignorant. Never in my life saw this person before but he had every right to be there because he is from the same township. He was rude, sitting in the back mocking people as they spoke. Found out later he heard from a friend what the meeting was about and he said " I have nothing to do and it doesn't cost me anything so I'm going to have fun with it". Nice to know my life is a joke that someone find entertaining. I thought maybe the people here would understand how hurtful this is and since you care for children as well you could maybe sypasize. I do thank the person that looked all that information up, that was so kind of you. I do have all that information in the book I got from the class I had to take.
Thank You
I would check with the state to see if you need zoning clearance for the small. In California local can not restrict small family care homes, but I don't know about PA. Also with your 1 over compliance, was the other adult related to one of the children? Then you might be still okay, as the numbers don't apply to children related to the caregivers from what I read. If this is the case I would continue to ask for at least your remaining 5 months, otherwise not following everything required may have just cost you, and I'm sorry. You need to turn away an unscheduled drop off if it puts you out of compliance. Either way you should talk to a lawyer who is familiar with child care laws in your state to see what your immediate options are (look outside of your area if needed).I am depressed enough and I thought I would get support here but I guess I was wrong. I have run a Day Care for 21 years. In 4 states because my husband is active duty. I have been licensed in every state but PA because my "township" said no. Not the state, the township. Not because my house needs repairs or anything like that. I live in a beautiful house and have 1,000 sq ft dedicated to my DC kids. I am more than willing to get licensed and abide by "the law". The 3 times DCW came out it was because of a neighbor saying I was watching some crazy amount of kids and I was not. Then they showed up again because of an anonamious call as usual and I had 1 extra due to an un scheduled drop off. I also had another woman here with me so really it should not have even been an issue. And for the record, it is because of the neighbor who is a bigwig she told me herself that she will get what she wants because she has the money. Most of you are making me out to be a bad person. That hurts because I am far from it. It blows my mind that my husband has been serving our country for 29 yrs and I get denied because of a couple neighbors that said if I get the license their property value will go down. "REALLY"!!! I have never come across people as hateful and self centered as the people in YORK, PA. I took the class, I already had all my clearances, and my house is safety checked. I have a year to be in compliance from taking the class (now only 5 months left), the next step was zoning in the township, that is where it ended. Yes it cost me $3,000. It was $450 to stand in front of the board, $250 for the sign I "had" to put in my yard and I hired a lawyer. Unfortunately the person I hired passed me to his son and he just was not experienced enough. One person that was at the meeting made fun of people, called me stupid, and ignorant. Never in my life saw this person before but he had every right to be there because he is from the same township. He was rude, sitting in the back mocking people as they spoke. Found out later he heard from a friend what the meeting was about and he said " I have nothing to do and it doesn't cost me anything so I'm going to have fun with it". Nice to know my life is a joke that someone find entertaining. I thought maybe the people here would understand how hurtful this is and since you care for children as well you could maybe sypasize. I do thank the person that looked all that information up, that was so kind of you. I do have all that information in the book I got from the class I had to take.
Thank You
GabsKids 05:26 AM 09-13-2013
This is my first time posting, so hopefully I am doing this right. I also live in PA. Same city as the poster, actually. I have a licensed Family Child Care home. This allows me to care for 6 unrelated children. In order to obtain this, you must get permission from the municipality in which you live. Some are easy to obtain, some are not. Some townships only allow 3 children, even though the state allows 6, if you are licensed. I too have struggled with my township to obtain a Group license to care for 12 unrelated children. I also went before zoning, which was $450. I didn't hire an attorney and I was denied. The reasoning was they had nothing in their ordinance, and it would have to be rewritten. It is very confusing. I could go back and fight it, but that would require hiring an attorney, paying the fee and it is still not a guarantee I would win.
My point is, yes, the OP should have obtained a license from the state if she was caring for more than 3 children. That is the law. However, I don't understand why these municipalities are basically making the decision on whether or not a person has a daycare in their home. The state, DPW, is who I feel should be making the decisions. If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegal daycares as we do.
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?
My point is, yes, the OP should have obtained a license from the state if she was caring for more than 3 children. That is the law. However, I don't understand why these municipalities are basically making the decision on whether or not a person has a daycare in their home. The state, DPW, is who I feel should be making the decisions. If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegal daycares as we do.
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?
Cat Herder 05:39 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by GabsKids:
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?
This question would make a great poll. Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?
I know it is a State decision here, my community/city/county had no say in it. It is a *right* if you meet licensing requirements.
Blackcat31 06:00 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
This question would make a great poll.
I know it is a State decision here, my community/city/county had no say in it. It is a *right* if you meet licensing requirements.
Well, let's make a poll and ask everyone.... I will do it now This question would make a great poll.
I know it is a State decision here, my community/city/county had no say in it. It is a *right* if you meet licensing requirements.
caregiver 06:21 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
The text I pasted was from a concerned parent/inlaw/neighbor email that was send to Daycare.com.
Being that we are Daycare.com, many on the internet see us as a source for childcare related issues. We are just not a forum. The person who wrote us may have thought we were the state/national licensing agency overseeing these issues. We gave the recipient the information they needed to further their cause or intention. I decided to POST their email here, while omitting address information, since the thread's subject had turned to unlawful operations and I felt the email related. I placed it here for discussion.
Thanks so much for getting the information to the recipient of this email.The text I pasted was from a concerned parent/inlaw/neighbor email that was send to Daycare.com.
Being that we are Daycare.com, many on the internet see us as a source for childcare related issues. We are just not a forum. The person who wrote us may have thought we were the state/national licensing agency overseeing these issues. We gave the recipient the information they needed to further their cause or intention. I decided to POST their email here, while omitting address information, since the thread's subject had turned to unlawful operations and I felt the email related. I placed it here for discussion.
All I can say is"WOW"! How can any parent in their right mind take their child to this daycare! This house is disgusting! I would be very afraid to even step into this house much less let my child be there.
All I can say is hopefully some authority will become aware of this situation and close her down. Also any parent who puts their child in this kind of home daycare must not be a very concerned parent and want the best for their child. Sorry to say that, but this is very distributing! Those pictures just make me want to cry,sorry, they are that bad and I feel so bad for the kids that are cared for there.
Play Care 06:44 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by GabsKids:
This is my first time posting, so hopefully I am doing this right. I also live in PA. Same city as the poster, actually. I have a licensed Family Child Care home. This allows me to care for 6 unrelated children. In order to obtain this, you must get permission from the municipality in which you live. Some are easy to obtain, some are not. Some townships only allow 3 children, even though the state allows 6, if you are licensed. I too have struggled with my township to obtain a Group license to care for 12 unrelated children. I also went before zoning, which was $450. I didn't hire an attorney and I was denied. The reasoning was they had nothing in their ordinance, and it would have to be rewritten. It is very confusing. I could go back and fight it, but that would require hiring an attorney, paying the fee and it is still not a guarantee I would win.
My point is, yes, the OP should have obtained a license from the state if she was caring for more than 3 children. That is the law. However, I don't understand why these municipalities are basically making the decision on whether or not a person has a daycare in their home. The state, DPW, is who I feel should be making the decisions. If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegal daycares as we do.
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?
This is my first time posting, so hopefully I am doing this right. I also live in PA. Same city as the poster, actually. I have a licensed Family Child Care home. This allows me to care for 6 unrelated children. In order to obtain this, you must get permission from the municipality in which you live. Some are easy to obtain, some are not. Some townships only allow 3 children, even though the state allows 6, if you are licensed. I too have struggled with my township to obtain a Group license to care for 12 unrelated children. I also went before zoning, which was $450. I didn't hire an attorney and I was denied. The reasoning was they had nothing in their ordinance, and it would have to be rewritten. It is very confusing. I could go back and fight it, but that would require hiring an attorney, paying the fee and it is still not a guarantee I would win.
My point is, yes, the OP should have obtained a license from the state if she was caring for more than 3 children. That is the law. However, I don't understand why these municipalities are basically making the decision on whether or not a person has a daycare in their home. The state, DPW, is who I feel should be making the decisions. If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegal daycares as we do.
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?
I'm in NY and my state has a law that says towns/villages can not impose any further restrictions - so my state says I can care for up to 8 kids (6 under school aged 2 and up and two school aged) the town can't come in and tell me I can only have 3. State overrules town, just like US law usually overrules state law (I'm sure there are exceptions but I'm too lazy to look it up)
Rather then continue to try to fight the town/municipalities, I would try to gather as many other providers as possible and move higher up the chain. LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY. Get your dc space and schedule in top notch order and invite your legislators in for an event. Invite the media in to showcase your business (make sure you have written permission from any dc clients in case children are filmed) Start a campaign to raise awareness about the benefits of in homes - smaller numbers, fewer illnesses, more consistency of care because of one or two primary caregivers. Highlight what you specifically offer parents - maybe you do preschool, maybe you are willing to work odd hours, etc. DON'T BE NEGATIVE!!!!! Make sure anything you send out has been spell and grammar checked. You want to present yourself as the conscientious professional you are. DO NOT OPERATE ILLEGALLY, as this will only hurt your case.
Essentially you do want your state to know that local munies are changing their laws, and imposing more restrictions - and there is nothing like and old fashioned peeing contest to get things rolling
Best of luck!
Unregistered 07:01 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by GabsKids:
This is my first time posting, so hopefully I am doing this right. I also live in PA. Same city as the poster, actually. I have a licensed Family Child Care home. This allows me to care for 6 unrelated children. In order to obtain this, you must get permission from the municipality in which you live. Some are easy to obtain, some are not. Some townships only allow 3 children, even though the state allows 6, if you are licensed. I too have struggled with my township to obtain a Group license to care for 12 unrelated children. I also went before zoning, which was $450. I didn't hire an attorney and I was denied. The reasoning was they had nothing in their ordinance, and it would have to be rewritten. It is very confusing. I could go back and fight it, but that would require hiring an attorney, paying the fee and it is still not a guarantee I would win.
My point is, yes, the OP should have obtained a license from the state if she was caring for more than 3 children. That is the law. However, I don't understand why these municipalities are basically making the decision on whether or not a person has a daycare in their home. The state, DPW, is who I feel should be making the decisions. If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegal daycares as we do.
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?
You hit it right on. The township said I have no hardship. Who are they to say I have no hardship? I have 4 children, one in collage another starting next year. My husband is retiring in 8 months and there will be no income besides his retirement. For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right. I am not running a brothel, I am running a daycare that I am more than willing to comply to all the laws. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Should I abide by that as well? Honestly to me being licensed means nothing. There are bad providers on both sides. Priest and ministers molest does that stop you from going to church? There are bad doctors, does that stop you from going to the hospital? There are good and bad teachers does that stop you from sending your kids to school? All these people have swore to do the best of their ability and not to harm and they do. My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong". Also to the woman that runs the daycare in York, Pa I would love to talk with you. It would be so nice to have another daycare provider friend.This is my first time posting, so hopefully I am doing this right. I also live in PA. Same city as the poster, actually. I have a licensed Family Child Care home. This allows me to care for 6 unrelated children. In order to obtain this, you must get permission from the municipality in which you live. Some are easy to obtain, some are not. Some townships only allow 3 children, even though the state allows 6, if you are licensed. I too have struggled with my township to obtain a Group license to care for 12 unrelated children. I also went before zoning, which was $450. I didn't hire an attorney and I was denied. The reasoning was they had nothing in their ordinance, and it would have to be rewritten. It is very confusing. I could go back and fight it, but that would require hiring an attorney, paying the fee and it is still not a guarantee I would win.
My point is, yes, the OP should have obtained a license from the state if she was caring for more than 3 children. That is the law. However, I don't understand why these municipalities are basically making the decision on whether or not a person has a daycare in their home. The state, DPW, is who I feel should be making the decisions. If that were the case, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegal daycares as we do.
Is PA the only state that requires permission from your municipality? (A permit) Or do other states require that as well?
Thank you all
Memc2001 07:08 AM 09-13-2013
At least there is a lock on the freezer
Not a laughing matter, sorry. I am always amazed where some parents are willing to leave their kids. I hope they are prosecuted to the fullest extent for these deplorable conditions and for using the system.
Not a laughing matter, sorry. I am always amazed where some parents are willing to leave their kids. I hope they are prosecuted to the fullest extent for these deplorable conditions and for using the system.
Unregistered 07:17 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
You hit it right on. The township said I have no hardship. Who are they to say I have no hardship? I have 4 children, one in collage another starting next year. My husband is retiring in 8 months and there will be no income besides his retirement. For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right. I am not running a brothel, I am running a daycare that I am more than willing to comply to all the laws. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Should I abide by that as well? Honestly to me being licensed means nothing. There are bad providers on both sides. Priest and ministers molest does that stop you from going to church? There are bad doctors, does that stop you from going to the hospital? There are good and bad teachers does that stop you from sending your kids to school? All these people have swore to do the best of their ability and not to harm and they do. My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong". Also to the woman that runs the daycare in York, Pa I would love to talk with you. It would be so nice to have another daycare provider friend.
Thank you all
You hit it right on. The township said I have no hardship. Who are they to say I have no hardship? I have 4 children, one in collage another starting next year. My husband is retiring in 8 months and there will be no income besides his retirement. For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right. I am not running a brothel, I am running a daycare that I am more than willing to comply to all the laws. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Should I abide by that as well? Honestly to me being licensed means nothing. There are bad providers on both sides. Priest and ministers molest does that stop you from going to church? There are bad doctors, does that stop you from going to the hospital? There are good and bad teachers does that stop you from sending your kids to school? All these people have swore to do the best of their ability and not to harm and they do. My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong". Also to the woman that runs the daycare in York, Pa I would love to talk with you. It would be so nice to have another daycare provider friend.
Thank you all
Agree!
Blackcat31 07:19 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
You hit it right on. The township said I have no hardship. Who are they to say I have no hardship? I have 4 children, one in collage another starting next year. My husband is retiring in 8 months and there will be no income besides his retirement. For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right. I am not running a brothel, I am running a daycare that I am more than willing to comply to all the laws. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Should I abide by that as well? Honestly to me being licensed means nothing. There are bad providers on both sides. Priest and ministers molest does that stop you from going to church? There are bad doctors, does that stop you from going to the hospital? There are good and bad teachers does that stop you from sending your kids to school? All these people have swore to do the best of their ability and not to harm and they do. My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong". Also to the woman that runs the daycare in York, Pa I would love to talk with you. It would be so nice to have another daycare provider friend.
Thank you all
Again, NO ONE said you were a bad person. You hit it right on. The township said I have no hardship. Who are they to say I have no hardship? I have 4 children, one in collage another starting next year. My husband is retiring in 8 months and there will be no income besides his retirement. For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right. I am not running a brothel, I am running a daycare that I am more than willing to comply to all the laws. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Should I abide by that as well? Honestly to me being licensed means nothing. There are bad providers on both sides. Priest and ministers molest does that stop you from going to church? There are bad doctors, does that stop you from going to the hospital? There are good and bad teachers does that stop you from sending your kids to school? All these people have swore to do the best of their ability and not to harm and they do. My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong". Also to the woman that runs the daycare in York, Pa I would love to talk with you. It would be so nice to have another daycare provider friend.
Thank you all
Operating a childcare without a license when one IS required IS wrong.
I can't change that. It has NO bearing on you being a bad person or not.
If you choose to run a child care ILLEGALLY, then you are absolutely breaking the law but still that doesn't mean you are or aren't a bad person.....
There is a BIG difference between what posters are saying to you and what you are hearing them say.
I am sorry this is happening to you. I am sorry your township sounds corrupted, biases, and/or unfair. I wish I had advice but I don't live in your area so I am unfamiliar with your laws.
Please consider registering with the forum. We really are a group of friendly, supportive and helpful guys and gals.
Oh, and yes if it is against the law to sing in the bathtub and you choose to take that risk, then you would be in trouble.... I think it's silly but I don't make the laws, I only obey them.
As for your references to bad doctors and/or ministers and priests....if they were breaking the law I would turn them in and not feel badly about it. I would also do my homework as a consumer/client and make sure my doctor and/or minister (as well as my child care provider) was working within the laws of the state...if they weren't I would choose to go elsewhere and seek services through someone who operating legally.
lovemylife 07:32 AM 09-13-2013
In Iowa there is a law that men with mustaches can't kiss a woman in public! Some laws are just stupid.
Rockgirl 07:54 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong"
I still can't find this anywhere. Can you show me? I must be missing it.My point here is Don't tell me I am a bad person because I am not licensed please, because that is simply "wrong"
Cat Herder 08:22 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right.
I am sorry but you are using every possible excuse you can think of to both rationalize and validate the fact that you continued to operate illegally. For the one person that said her husband is former military, I am not using his military to get special treatment, I am simply saying I have the right to work and provide for my family and the right to choose what I do and the township is denying me that right.
The point I made is that they do not hold water and will hurt your case badly.
"the township is denying me that right"
^^^^^^ THAT should be your starting point.
"What can I do to fight my township" should be your focus. IMHO, you should stop focusing on being a victim and fight.
Please understand, I am on your side. I WANT you to succeed. Nobody thinks you are a bad person. You are reading LEGAL advice and taking it as PERSONAL condemnation.
Most of us would be willing to sign your digital petition......
nanglgrl 11:01 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by lovemylife:
In Iowa there is a law that men with mustaches can't kiss a woman in public! Some laws are just stupid.
Being an Iowan I think that's a great law, mustaches gross me out! In Iowa there is a law that men with mustaches can't kiss a woman in public! Some laws are just stupid.
nanglgrl 11:16 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I'm in NY and my state has a law that says towns/villages can not impose any further restrictions - so my state says I can care for up to 8 kids (6 under school aged 2 and up and two school aged) the town can't come in and tell me I can only have 3. State overrules town, just like US law usually overrules state law (I'm sure there are exceptions but I'm too lazy to look it up)
Rather then continue to try to fight the town/municipalities, I would try to gather as many other providers as possible and move higher up the chain. LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY. Get your dc space and schedule in top notch order and invite your legislators in for an event. Invite the media in to showcase your business (make sure you have written permission from any dc clients in case children are filmed) Start a campaign to raise awareness about the benefits of in homes - smaller numbers, fewer illnesses, more consistency of care because of one or two primary caregivers. Highlight what you specifically offer parents - maybe you do preschool, maybe you are willing to work odd hours, etc. DON'T BE NEGATIVE!!!!! Make sure anything you send out has been spell and grammar checked. You want to present yourself as the conscientious professional you are. DO NOT OPERATE ILLEGALLY, as this will only hurt your case.
Essentially you do want your state to know that local munies are changing their laws, and imposing more restrictions - and there is nothing like and old fashioned peeing contest to get things rolling
Best of luck!
Start a change.com petition. Attach state and local officials to it and every time it's signed they will get an email. Make sure your grammar is impecable, I'm sure some of us could help you. Share it through Facebook, send it through email and post it here. I'm in NY and my state has a law that says towns/villages can not impose any further restrictions - so my state says I can care for up to 8 kids (6 under school aged 2 and up and two school aged) the town can't come in and tell me I can only have 3. State overrules town, just like US law usually overrules state law (I'm sure there are exceptions but I'm too lazy to look it up)
Rather then continue to try to fight the town/municipalities, I would try to gather as many other providers as possible and move higher up the chain. LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY. Get your dc space and schedule in top notch order and invite your legislators in for an event. Invite the media in to showcase your business (make sure you have written permission from any dc clients in case children are filmed) Start a campaign to raise awareness about the benefits of in homes - smaller numbers, fewer illnesses, more consistency of care because of one or two primary caregivers. Highlight what you specifically offer parents - maybe you do preschool, maybe you are willing to work odd hours, etc. DON'T BE NEGATIVE!!!!! Make sure anything you send out has been spell and grammar checked. You want to present yourself as the conscientious professional you are. DO NOT OPERATE ILLEGALLY, as this will only hurt your case.
Essentially you do want your state to know that local munies are changing their laws, and imposing more restrictions - and there is nothing like and old fashioned peeing contest to get things rolling
Best of luck!
Iowa required providers to use a copper line based landline phone a few years back even though they are becoming outdated are expensive and not every area in Iowa has that type of service available. The actual code just said we had to have a landline so many providers were using Mediacom, Magic Jack etc. (much cheaper and more reliable in most cases) the state (after years of things being this way) then started to tell providers they had to use copper based lines and Mediacom, Magic Jack weren't acceptable even though it wasn't what the code said.
I started a petition and shared it on Facebook and on this forum. A person on this forum had contacts with our child are union and let them know what was going on. The state rescinded and started letting providers use non copper based lines and not even a year later they removed the having a landline requirement entirely. Now we can just use our cell phones as long as we have every child's information in our phone. You can complain and fight or you can just complain, only one of those options has the chance of having results.
lovemylife 11:26 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
Being an Iowan I think that's a great law, mustaches gross me out!
Being an Iowan I think that's a great law, mustaches gross me out!
Hahaha! They are gross! But still a crazy law!
Blackcat31 11:26 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
Start a change.com petition. Attach state and local officials to it and every time it's signed they will get an email. Make sure your grammar is impecable, I'm sure some of us could help you. Share it through Facebook, send it through email and post it here.
Iowa required providers to use a copper line based landline phone a few years back even though they are becoming outdated are expensive and not every area in Iowa has that type of service available. The actual code just said we had to have a landline so many providers were using Mediacom, Magic Jack etc. (much cheaper and more reliable in most cases) the state (after years of things being this way) then started to tell providers they had to use copper based lines and Mediacom, Magic Jack weren't acceptable even though it wasn't what the code said.
I started a petition and shared it on Facebook and on this forum. A person on this forum had contacts with our child are union and let them know what was going on. The state rescinded and started letting providers use non copper based lines and not even a year later they removed the having a landline requirement entirely. Now we can just use our cell phones as long as we have every child's information in our phone. You can complain and fight or you can just complain, only one of those options has the chance of having results.
That's cool! I am glad you got that taken care of, I remember the thread and how much confusion and outrage there was about it all. Start a change.com petition. Attach state and local officials to it and every time it's signed they will get an email. Make sure your grammar is impecable, I'm sure some of us could help you. Share it through Facebook, send it through email and post it here.
Iowa required providers to use a copper line based landline phone a few years back even though they are becoming outdated are expensive and not every area in Iowa has that type of service available. The actual code just said we had to have a landline so many providers were using Mediacom, Magic Jack etc. (much cheaper and more reliable in most cases) the state (after years of things being this way) then started to tell providers they had to use copper based lines and Mediacom, Magic Jack weren't acceptable even though it wasn't what the code said.
I started a petition and shared it on Facebook and on this forum. A person on this forum had contacts with our child are union and let them know what was going on. The state rescinded and started letting providers use non copper based lines and not even a year later they removed the having a landline requirement entirely. Now we can just use our cell phones as long as we have every child's information in our phone. You can complain and fight or you can just complain, only one of those options has the chance of having results.
Sugar Magnolia 12:11 PM 09-13-2013
Oy. Palm to face, shaking head in disbelief.
It's really really really simple:
Legally unlicensed......OK
Operating illegally......NOT OK.
Questions?
Re: the forum.....also simple. "support" does not mean everybody agreed with you. Sorry to be so blunt, but it is what it is.
It's really really really simple:
Legally unlicensed......OK
Operating illegally......NOT OK.
Questions?
Re: the forum.....also simple. "support" does not mean everybody agreed with you. Sorry to be so blunt, but it is what it is.
nanglgrl 02:23 PM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
That's cool! I am glad you got that taken care of, I remember the thread and how much confusion and outrage there was about it all.
It really felt great Blackcat and it wouldn't have been possible without the support from this forum.That's cool! I am glad you got that taken care of, I remember the thread and how much confusion and outrage there was about it all.
KidGrind 04:20 PM 09-15-2013
I didn't read any comment written stating you were a bad individual. I read posts that mention you were breaking the law. You admitted as much to that fact yourself.
I sympathize with you. I recently went through a major battle to open my daycare. Certain employees with the power to unjustly block my opening, did so for months. Why? I stood up for myself and what was right. I spoke up when they were asking me to be in direct violation of regulations.
I am opened now and still experiencing difficulty. However, I refuse to back down. Basically they don't want Family Childcare Providers "competing" with their facilities. The funny thing is I am not competing with anyone. I am trying to supplement my family's income in the profession I love. I am offering a much needed service in a community.
I pray you don't give up and stand up for your chosen career.
Note: I could've done what many in this community do; open & operate illegal home daycares. Yet, I refrained. I have suffered financially. It's alright, I've persevered. By the way, those who tried to block my opening are under investigation as I type.
Off topic: I hope the pictures shared are not a true representation of someone's home who is providing childcare. The thought of parents dropping off their children in that mess is appalling.
I sympathize with you. I recently went through a major battle to open my daycare. Certain employees with the power to unjustly block my opening, did so for months. Why? I stood up for myself and what was right. I spoke up when they were asking me to be in direct violation of regulations.
I am opened now and still experiencing difficulty. However, I refuse to back down. Basically they don't want Family Childcare Providers "competing" with their facilities. The funny thing is I am not competing with anyone. I am trying to supplement my family's income in the profession I love. I am offering a much needed service in a community.
I pray you don't give up and stand up for your chosen career.
Note: I could've done what many in this community do; open & operate illegal home daycares. Yet, I refrained. I have suffered financially. It's alright, I've persevered. By the way, those who tried to block my opening are under investigation as I type.
Off topic: I hope the pictures shared are not a true representation of someone's home who is providing childcare. The thought of parents dropping off their children in that mess is appalling.
Unregistered 06:08 AM 09-16-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I'm in NY and my state has a law that says towns/villages can not impose any further restrictions - so my state says I can care for up to 8 kids (6 under school aged 2 and up and two school aged) the town can't come in and tell me I can only have 3. State overrules town, just like US law usually overrules state law (I'm sure there are exceptions but I'm too lazy to look it up)
Rather then continue to try to fight the town/municipalities, I would try to gather as many other providers as possible and move higher up the chain. LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY. Get your dc space and schedule in top notch order and invite your legislators in for an event. Invite the media in to showcase your business (make sure you have written permission from any dc clients in case children are filmed) Start a campaign to raise awareness about the benefits of in homes - smaller numbers, fewer illnesses, more consistency of care because of one or two primary caregivers. Highlight what you specifically offer parents - maybe you do preschool, maybe you are willing to work odd hours, etc. DON'T BE NEGATIVE!!!!! Make sure anything you send out has been spell and grammar checked. You want to present yourself as the conscientious professional you are. DO NOT OPERATE ILLEGALLY, as this will only hurt your case.
Essentially you do want your state to know that local munies are changing their laws, and imposing more restrictions - and there is nothing like and old fashioned peeing contest to get things rolling
Best of luck!
I'm in NY and my state has a law that says towns/villages can not impose any further restrictions - so my state says I can care for up to 8 kids (6 under school aged 2 and up and two school aged) the town can't come in and tell me I can only have 3. State overrules town, just like US law usually overrules state law (I'm sure there are exceptions but I'm too lazy to look it up)
Rather then continue to try to fight the town/municipalities, I would try to gather as many other providers as possible and move higher up the chain. LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY. Get your dc space and schedule in top notch order and invite your legislators in for an event. Invite the media in to showcase your business (make sure you have written permission from any dc clients in case children are filmed) Start a campaign to raise awareness about the benefits of in homes - smaller numbers, fewer illnesses, more consistency of care because of one or two primary caregivers. Highlight what you specifically offer parents - maybe you do preschool, maybe you are willing to work odd hours, etc. DON'T BE NEGATIVE!!!!! Make sure anything you send out has been spell and grammar checked. You want to present yourself as the conscientious professional you are. DO NOT OPERATE ILLEGALLY, as this will only hurt your case.
Essentially you do want your state to know that local munies are changing their laws, and imposing more restrictions - and there is nothing like and old fashioned peeing contest to get things rolling
Best of luck!
Wow, I need you here to help me. Can I fly you in for a week??? I am lost when it comes to legislators and stuff like that. My nerves are shot. I have lost 15 lbs in 7 days. I did a lot of thinking this weekend and am hoping to apply for a small without stirring up the township. I have a new lawyer and hope this will buy me time until I can possibly look into buying a small center when my DH retires. I am going to do a lot of praying that these neighbors will get off my back. I still have to go through the township and ask them AGAIN to please allow me to watch the 6 the state will allow me to have. I'm scared, not going to lie, I did a lot of crying because these same people who's kids grew up with mine, who's kids stayed days at a time at my house when they were little, can turn around and try and prevent me from having a day care. One neighbor told the township that parents need to learn to sacrifice and stay home with their kids then they would not need day care. He said that single moms can get assistance so he does not feel bad for them. The stuff people came up with was just crazy. One guy that does not even live by me said he has the right at his age not to listen to other peoples kids when he is home relaxing, then stated he did not even know I had been watching kids in my home. I hope you can see just how ridiculous this was and yet they won
By the way all this is in a transcript so it is easy to prove I am not stretching the truth or making it up. Its all in black and white. Thank you Ladies
Manny
TwinKristi 10:09 AM 09-16-2013
I would work within your legal rights for now, and when your dh retires in 8mos I would MOVE! I know that's not cheap but if you want to operate a business and not deal with township politics it may be your only choice.