Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Too many kids????
TINYTOTS 07:47 PM 08-09-2012
does anyone know what the penalty is for getting caught with too many kids. it was just one extra. i live in ma.
DaisyMamma 04:45 AM 08-10-2012
I'm not sure. Does it say in your stats & regs? Or check out your state web site.
Blackcat31 07:09 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by TINYTOTS:
does anyone know what the penalty is for getting caught with too many kids. it was just one extra. i live in ma.
This is going to come across as harsh, but this stuff makes me so mad!! does anyone know what the penalty is for getting caught with too many kids. it was just one extra. i live in ma.
I don't think it should matter if it was one or ten extras.....it was too many.
If you were aware of your license capacities and had more kids than you were legally allowed to have, I think the fine should be heavy. I also think it should be noted on your license as well.
I am thinking you were fully aware since the words you used were "getting caught with too many" as if you KNEW the rules but did it anyways.
It is these exact types of situations that give ALL child cares a bad name.
Rules are made for a reason and most times it is for the safety of the children in care. It only takes ONE thing to happen for a child to be hurt, injured or forgotten and having to many kids is simply not excuseable in my book.
Unregistered 07:42 AM 08-10-2012
do some states have variances? I have seen posts about these. I wish we could get them for things like school holidays. It would help to be able to take school age siblings and ones you watch before and after when school is out.
christinaskids 07:55 AM 08-10-2012
Our old daycare provider lost her license this way after doing it for 20 years. I would not risk your license
Blackcat31 07:57 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
do some states have variances? I have seen posts about these. I wish we could get them for things like school holidays. It would help to be able to take school age siblings and ones you watch before and after when school is out.
Yes, some states have variances. I think it varies as far as rules and situations so that would definitely be something you would have to check with your individual licensor about.do some states have variances? I have seen posts about these. I wish we could get them for things like school holidays. It would help to be able to take school age siblings and ones you watch before and after when school is out.
I do know in my state (MN) you can NEVER get a variance though to be over your capacity limits.
Variances here are only for situations where you have a child who is say, a month away from being in the preschool age group and you want to move them to that age group sooner.
Max limit for children here is 14 (12 alone) so a variance would NEVER be granted to have more kids than regulations allow.
HTH.
Springdaze 08:55 AM 08-10-2012
we are only allowed to have 5 no matter what so it wouldnt be too much to have 1 or 2 on special occasions
Happy Hearts 09:00 AM 08-10-2012
The fine where I live is $10,000 PER DAY!! Not a typo.
TINYTOTS 09:34 AM 08-10-2012
I too believe it should be a stiff penalty but some people have to realize things sometimes happen out of the ordinary i didnt purposely over enroll my program my son happen to come home from baseball practice with a friend of his which made me over and while waiting for him to get picked up my food program moniter showed up so yes being over can cause problems but sometimes things happen thats out of our control i am not the type of person to not follow the regulations
Lucy 09:41 AM 08-10-2012
And I think we should ask the details before we assume the worst. 
Blackcat31 09:44 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by TINYTOTS:
I too believe it should be a stiff penalty but some people have to realize things sometimes happen out of the ordinary i didnt purposely over enroll my program my son happen to come home from baseball practice with a friend of his which made me over and while waiting for him to get picked up my food program moniter showed up so yes being over can cause problems but sometimes things happen thats out of our control i am not the type of person to not follow the regulations
Apologies for jumping all over you and I DO understand that things happen, but at the same time because of that, we need to be prepared at ALL times and have a plan of action to cover our butts. I too believe it should be a stiff penalty but some people have to realize things sometimes happen out of the ordinary i didnt purposely over enroll my program my son happen to come home from baseball practice with a friend of his which made me over and while waiting for him to get picked up my food program moniter showed up so yes being over can cause problems but sometimes things happen thats out of our control i am not the type of person to not follow the regulations
Since your son came home from practice with a friend, I would have told the friend that he couldn't be there and had him leave. I would also have told my DS that if he wanted to bring a friend home with him, he would have to ask first so you can make the arrangements necessary to accommodate the extra kid.
Hoping this will all work out ok for you and that if nothing else you just get a warning and that is it. In my state, you get a correction order and are subject to surprise inspections on a very frequent basis.
Hang in there...maybe your licensor will be understanding since it was your own child and not extra daycare kids you had in care.
DaisyMamma 10:15 AM 08-10-2012
What I find very strange is the variation from state to state.
I can only ever have 6 but others can have 12 alone. That is a huge difference.
I can only ever have 6 but others can have 12 alone. That is a huge difference.
MrsSteinel'sHouse 10:33 AM 08-10-2012
In Ohio I can only have 6 kidlets too and only 3 under 2.
Provider_Manda 11:04 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
In Ohio I can only have 6 kidlets too and only 3 under 2.
I am in Ohio too !! That is also my limit for type B...Do you have the ECC swipe machine for ODJFS ?In Ohio I can only have 6 kidlets too and only 3 under 2.
MrsSteinel'sHouse 11:09 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by Provider_Manda:
I am in Ohio too !! That is also my limit for type B...Do you have the ECC swipe machine for ODJFS ?
yes, yes I do.I am in Ohio too !! That is also my limit for type B...Do you have the ECC swipe machine for ODJFS ?
Provider_Manda 11:16 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
yes, yes I do.
Do you like it? At first I didn't but now no billing paper work and getting paid weekly vs. monthly is a lot better I think yes, yes I do.
daycare 11:19 AM 08-10-2012
if I were you, I would call your licencor...
Here if we have a child of a friend over our house during our business hours and that child is NOT enrolled in our childcare (like your situation) and that child can walk home if they needed to, then you would not be in trouble. However, this is how it works in CA. Like I said, call your licencor and ask them how you can protect yourself to stay within the regulations.
Here if we have a child of a friend over our house during our business hours and that child is NOT enrolled in our childcare (like your situation) and that child can walk home if they needed to, then you would not be in trouble. However, this is how it works in CA. Like I said, call your licencor and ask them how you can protect yourself to stay within the regulations.
My3cents 11:20 AM 08-10-2012
I agree with Blackcat. The rules are the rules. I would be furious with my child if they brought any child home after school with out checking with me first.
I do find it strange that there is such a wide variety of #'s from state to state.
Do all states have a number of kids that you may have but then age allowances within those numbers? I can have 12 but only so many babies, toddlers, and school age, or do your numbers reflect that you can have 5 kids of any age? Just curious-
I do find it strange that there is such a wide variety of #'s from state to state.
Do all states have a number of kids that you may have but then age allowances within those numbers? I can have 12 but only so many babies, toddlers, and school age, or do your numbers reflect that you can have 5 kids of any age? Just curious-
Angelsj 11:31 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yes, some states have variances. I think it varies as far as rules and situations so that would definitely be something you would have to check with your individual licensor about.
I do know in my state (MN) you can NEVER get a variance though to be over your capacity limits.
Variances here are only for situations where you have a child who is say, a month away from being in the preschool age group and you want to move them to that age group sooner.
Max limit for children here is 14 (12 alone) so a variance would NEVER be granted to have more kids than regulations allow.
HTH.
That must run on a county by county basis, because I have one, and I also live in MN.Yes, some states have variances. I think it varies as far as rules and situations so that would definitely be something you would have to check with your individual licensor about.
I do know in my state (MN) you can NEVER get a variance though to be over your capacity limits.
Variances here are only for situations where you have a child who is say, a month away from being in the preschool age group and you want to move them to that age group sooner.
Max limit for children here is 14 (12 alone) so a variance would NEVER be granted to have more kids than regulations allow.
HTH.
daycare 11:32 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by My3cents:
I agree with Blackcat. The rules are the rules. I would be furious with my child if they brought any child home after school with out checking with me first.
I do find it strange that there is such a wide variety of #'s from state to state.
Do all states have a number of kids that you may have but then age allowances within those numbers? I can have 12 but only so many babies, toddlers, and school age, or do your numbers reflect that you can have 5 kids of any age? Just curious-
I think just about all states (please don't quote me on this) have their numbers based on age of the child.I agree with Blackcat. The rules are the rules. I would be furious with my child if they brought any child home after school with out checking with me first.
I do find it strange that there is such a wide variety of #'s from state to state.
Do all states have a number of kids that you may have but then age allowances within those numbers? I can have 12 but only so many babies, toddlers, and school age, or do your numbers reflect that you can have 5 kids of any age? Just curious-
the more helpless a child is - like an infant, the less you can have at one time
the more self sufficient a child is, like school age, then you can have more children in this age group at one time.
TINYTOTS 11:44 AM 08-10-2012
in ma you can have 6 with a regular license, 8 with a plus license but 2 have to be school age, and 10 with a large license but you have to have an assistant. i have a large so i could care for ten but my assistant is still waiting on her paper work to go through so on that particular day i had ten with my son and his friend but my son doesnt count in my numbers because hes over ten but even though his friend is over ten he counts in my number so that made me have 9 kids when i should have had eight because my assistant isnt fully certified yet and she was there too
Blackcat31 11:45 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
That must run on a county by county basis, because I have one, and I also live in MN.
Yes, I am pretty sure based on a thread discussion from last year that variances are given differently according to counties and licensors and other factors I am not aware of. That must run on a county by county basis, because I have one, and I also live in MN.
I think one of the other MN providrs on this forum said her county won't even give them out because they don't have the staff to do visits and inspections.
What is your variance for?
I have one at this time as well and mine is to allow me to count a child who missed the cut off for Kindy by 2 days as a school age child instead of a preschooler. It still does not allow me ot go outside the 12 kid max though.
Angelsj 11:56 AM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yes, I am pretty sure based on a thread discussion from last year that variances are given differently according to counties and licensors and other factors I am not aware of.
I think one of the other MN providrs on this forum said her county won't even give them out because they don't have the staff to do visits and inspections.
What is your variance for?
I have one at this time as well and mine is to allow me to count a child who missed the cut off for Kindy by 2 days as a school age child instead of a preschooler. It still does not allow me ot go outside the 12 kid max though.
I have 14 children registered. However, nearly all of my kids are part timers. It is possible that they would all be here for a 2-5 hour period, so the variance allows for it. That has only happened once all summer, for a 2 hour period, my infant/toddler ratios remain intact (the overage is school age children), but the variance allows me to do it in limited capacity for the summer only. It is highly specific, but it does allow an overage of children. Plus (for the op), I cleared this BEFORE the overage happened. Yes, I am pretty sure based on a thread discussion from last year that variances are given differently according to counties and licensors and other factors I am not aware of.
I think one of the other MN providrs on this forum said her county won't even give them out because they don't have the staff to do visits and inspections.
What is your variance for?
I have one at this time as well and mine is to allow me to count a child who missed the cut off for Kindy by 2 days as a school age child instead of a preschooler. It still does not allow me ot go outside the 12 kid max though.
I think that is a very important point.
Blackcat31 12:03 PM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I have 14 children registered. However, nearly all of my kids are part timers. It is possible that they would all be here for a 2-5 hour period, so the variance allows for it. That has only happened once all summer, for a 2 hour period, my infant/toddler ratios remain intact (the overage is school age children), but the variance allows me to do it in limited capacity for the summer only. It is highly specific, but it does allow an overage of children. Plus (for the op), I cleared this BEFORE the overage happened.
I think that is a very important point.
I agree! It is super important to have that plan to cover your butt....just in case....because we all know in this line of work, just in case CAN actually happen. I have 14 children registered. However, nearly all of my kids are part timers. It is possible that they would all be here for a 2-5 hour period, so the variance allows for it. That has only happened once all summer, for a 2 hour period, my infant/toddler ratios remain intact (the overage is school age children), but the variance allows me to do it in limited capacity for the summer only. It is highly specific, but it does allow an overage of children. Plus (for the op), I cleared this BEFORE the overage happened.
I think that is a very important point.
I totally understand your variance but again, it still doesn't allow you to be over the max number of kids you allowable (14).
Plus, it is just for SA overages, which IMPO, isn't that big of deal since SA kids are ideally (LOL!!
) suppose to require a lot less supervision than the infants/toddlers do. But either way, having a variance you never use is 100 x's better that not having one and having something happen where you end up being cited for it.
Crazy8 12:15 PM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I think just about all states (please don't quote me on this) have their numbers based on age of the child.
the more helpless a child is - like an infant, the less you can have at one time
the more self sufficient a child is, like school age, then you can have more children in this age group at one time.
yes, I agree most every state has numbers based on age BUT I think the comment My3cents is making may be referring to the fact that some states can have 14 kids (w/1 provider) and other states (like mine) the MAX is 5 kids. Age matters in that I can only have 2 infants, etc. but no matter what their ages my max is still 5 kids (or even only 4 there are 2 infants and 2 others under age 2). THAT is a huge difference in the number of kids allowed for a provider just because they live in a different state!!!I think just about all states (please don't quote me on this) have their numbers based on age of the child.
the more helpless a child is - like an infant, the less you can have at one time
the more self sufficient a child is, like school age, then you can have more children in this age group at one time.
daycare 12:20 PM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by Crazy8:
yes, I agree most every state has numbers based on age BUT I think the comment My3cents is making may be referring to the fact that some states can have 14 kids (w/1 provider) and other states (like mine) the MAX is 5 kids. Age matters in that I can only have 2 infants, etc. but no matter what their ages my max is still 5 kids (or even only 4 there are 2 infants and 2 others under age 2). THAT is a huge difference in the number of kids allowed for a provider just because they live in a different state!!!
ahhh I see... I misunderstood the question....but yeah that is crazy based on the number difference....yes, I agree most every state has numbers based on age BUT I think the comment My3cents is making may be referring to the fact that some states can have 14 kids (w/1 provider) and other states (like mine) the MAX is 5 kids. Age matters in that I can only have 2 infants, etc. but no matter what their ages my max is still 5 kids (or even only 4 there are 2 infants and 2 others under age 2). THAT is a huge difference in the number of kids allowed for a provider just because they live in a different state!!!
DCBlessings27 01:22 PM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by TINYTOTS:
I too believe it should be a stiff penalty but some people have to realize things sometimes happen out of the ordinary i didnt purposely over enroll my program my son happen to come home from baseball practice with a friend of his which made me over and while waiting for him to get picked up my food program moniter showed up so yes being over can cause problems but sometimes things happen thats out of our control i am not the type of person to not follow the regulations
In KS, our food program MUST turn us in if we are over numbers. I would be getting a surprise visit if I'd been in your shoes. I too believe it should be a stiff penalty but some people have to realize things sometimes happen out of the ordinary i didnt purposely over enroll my program my son happen to come home from baseball practice with a friend of his which made me over and while waiting for him to get picked up my food program moniter showed up so yes being over can cause problems but sometimes things happen thats out of our control i am not the type of person to not follow the regulations
When my dd gets old enough, I'll have to make sure that she doesn't bring home anyone unless I'm clear on space. I know our regulations, and I don't plan to allow anyone to come over during the daycare days unless I have paperwork and am able to count the child in my numbers.
Country Kids 03:44 PM 08-10-2012
I totally understand the numbers thing. What makes it hard for me is if my son is outside playing with friends from the neighborhood and one or more come on the property I'm over numbers-. So I'm constently having to watch that. Especially if I were to have a surprise inspection either by the state or by the food program.
Makes it so fun for your own kids in the summer-
. So I'm constently having to watch that. Especially if I were to have a surprise inspection either by the state or by the food program. Makes it so fun for your own kids in the summer-
Angelsj 08:36 PM 08-10-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree! It is super important to have that plan to cover your butt....just in case....because we all know in this line of work, just in case CAN actually happen.
I totally understand your variance but again, it still doesn't allow you to be over the max number of kids you allowable (14).
Plus, it is just for SA overages, which IMPO, isn't that big of deal since SA kids are ideally (LOL!!) suppose to require a lot less supervision than the infants/toddlers do.
But either way, having a variance you never use is 100 x's better that not having one and having something happen where you end up being cited for it.
Agreed, and I am so glad you chuckled at that (school age comment) cause man oh man...I am SOOOOOO ready for school to start this year!! And I am a homeschooler!! LOLI agree! It is super important to have that plan to cover your butt....just in case....because we all know in this line of work, just in case CAN actually happen.
I totally understand your variance but again, it still doesn't allow you to be over the max number of kids you allowable (14).
Plus, it is just for SA overages, which IMPO, isn't that big of deal since SA kids are ideally (LOL!!
) suppose to require a lot less supervision than the infants/toddlers do. But either way, having a variance you never use is 100 x's better that not having one and having something happen where you end up being cited for it.