My child (3 yrs old) attends a home daycare, and let's just say the behavior has been terrible. I spank him at home or at daycare while dropping him off if needed. The daycare is willing to work with me on whatever I can figure out, but right now, all I can think of is for them to spank him also, so that he learns it doesn't matter where he misbehaves, he isn't going to get by with it. I know daycares are pretty limited on what they can do for discipline but are home daycares allowed to spank? I want them to, and will sign that I want them to. Can they, with verbal and signed permission from parents, spank the children?

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No they can't

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no, and even if i could legally, (or wanted to) i still wouldnt do it. too much of a liability.

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I'm in TX and we aren't allowed to either. Just non-physical forms of discipline (time-out, redirection, etc.).

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No way! I spank my own children, but I don't spank other people's -- that's definitely a parental responsibility. In fact, when I found out a close personal friend of mine doesn't have a problem spanking other people's kids, I stopped letting her babysit my kids.

I personally would be worried about a child care provider that is willing to spank a dck, even when a parent has requested it.

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It is important to know WHY spanking is not allowed. It has been proven to be ineffective as a form of correction. It is simply a form of punishment. Often, it is used to calm the parent as much as it is intended to stop the child from the unwanted behavior. It is said that spanking teaches children that lashing out or hitting is the appropriate response to anger and frustration. Honestly, I was spanked as a child, and I can count how many times I have spanked my own (who is 12 now) on one hand. I admit it was out of frustration.
I guess I'll take one for the team here and suggest that other methods of correction are used instead, in order to keep a consistency between daycare and home. Ask your provider what she does, and try it at home.

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Every child is different.

My daughter (14), all I ever had to do is give her that look and dad voice, and her behavior was modified instantly.

My son (Beelzebub) on the other hand, merely uses time out as a break to think up more evil crap to do. It does nothing to change his behavior patterns.

Redirection-that just makes him go do evil crap somewhere else.

Talking to-that just makes him roll his eyes and wonder "you done yapping so I can get back to doing evil stuff?"

About two years ago, I caught him throwing rocks at my truck parked in the driveway. Three quick swats and a bit of "dad voice", and that was the first and last rock throwing incident we have had.


In daycare, we have some kids whose parents spank them for their misdeeds. One boy was being a total pill for a bit while here, and nothing would make him stop....same as our boy.

The next day, his mom stated right in front of us "If he won't behave, paddle his butt HARD". (we never would, but he didn't need to know that). Guess what? Instant good behavior.

And it's not the spanking itself that is the deterrant, it's the dread of the spanking. Mind over matter kinda thing.

Let me share this....I got my share, your share, his share and her share of spankings as a child. And I needed them, I was a total hellion. My kid's a slacker compared to the terror I was.

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But what do you do when the child calls your bluff? My second son (stubborn as a rock!) would do just that. He'd be the first to see if you meant it. I have to be sooo careful to not threaten something I don't intend to follow through on, because it only takes one time ... I have to say though, I've only ever spanked in a controlled way.

If a parent told me to spank their child with the child there, I'd have to say no (in front of child). But then I would detail the punishment they WOULD receive. When I spank my own child, I know I'm doing it in love. I can't guarantee it for any other children

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First, at daycare, no form of corporal punishment is allowed. In fact, in WA, dc parents can't even spank their own children on our property. I can only spank my own children if (a) no dc child sees or hears and (b) I maintain the appropriate staff:child ratio. Like that's ever going to happen.

I am in a very different camp than missniki however. Sometimes, like chickenhauler and his kid, and my own son, they need a spank. Not a beating, not in anger, not to ridicule. A spanking. My own children got spanked for direct disobedience. Never because I was angry, never to quency my own emotions. Calmly, after a talk about why it was going to happen, and followed with the arms of grace.

To unregistered who posted the original post. Please don't ask your provider to do something that will land them in jail. Your provider is on your side in trying to find a way to attain appropriate behavior. But asking this is putting her in a very tight spot legally.

At 3, your child could perhaps receive the spanking at home when a report comes from daycare about a bad behavior. 3 is a little young however, because what happened 4 hours ago is out of their head by the time you get them home. Good luck.

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I would never spank a dck - ever. Not even if asked by the parent. But I spank my own kids and have plenty of other things in my discipline "tool box" that other people have been shocked at. For instance, ask my daughter what it's like having to put her tongue on a dot on the wall in the corner of the room (slightly higher than is comfortable) for several minutes for being directly disrespectful. But that's another thing I would never make my dck's do.

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In Texas, we are NOT allowed to spank under 5 years old. We are allowed to spank the kids at least 5 years old with parents' permission and sign the form.

I would never never spank their kids no matter what. I have a several parents asked me to spank their kids but I refused and they understand..

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OP, so basically you're giving them the go-ahead to potentially physically abuse your child. Am I reading that correctly?

Whether anyone's state allows the spanking of dck or not, I'm sure it happens all the time. I certainly would not encourage any MORE of it!

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Of course not! I trust my child care provider. She's more like a friend than a child care provider. I KNOW beyond any doubt that she would not turn this into physical abuse. It'd be a quick swat. This lady has mentioned having to spank her own child (when I told her that I spank mine), and he's obviously not physically abused in any way!
So if you all can't spank, or won't, what do you do for kids who need discipline? Time-outs are nothing more to my son than just time to sit and think about whatever 3 yr olds think about. He does not sit there and think about what he did wrong, that's for sure. And as soon as I (or they) let him up, he does the same thing that had just landed him in time out. Redirection is nothing to him. He seems to think, "if I can't hit her, then I'll just go over here and hit him instead". "So what if I have to stay beside Mrs ____? No problem, I'll just wait til she lets me re-join the kids and do it again." "So what if I have to sit in time-out for my tantrum? I'll turn it into a cat and mouse chase first: If she wants me to sit in a chair, she'll have to come and get me first." "What? You don't want me to say bad words that I overheard my sister bring home from school? How do you like it when I say it louder? Oh, you're choosing to ignore the bad words so I don't yell them? I'll just repeat it until everyone tells on me, then say them a bunch more times to make sure Mrs ___ or mommy heard me, too"
It sounds like you pretty much have to let them by with everything. Any secrets you can share of how you keep peace in your home with several children running around all day that most providers wouldn't already be trying?
Any ideas for what my provider and I can do, then, to discipline him and turn his behavior around?

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that's a matter of opinion. spanking and physical abuse are not the same thing in MY opinion.

i can understand the OP's question. i don't think any daycare provider would be allowed to do it, or do it even if they could, BUT many schools are allowed to paddle children with parent's permission. so, it's really not that crazy of a question.

i was in the doctor's office the other day with my son who is a hellian, btw. there was a lady holding her son who looked about 2 years old. i don't know what he was mad about, but he kept smacking his mom in the face OVER and OVER. she kept saying, "stooop it! stooop!" i was thinking to myself if that was my kid i'd be dragging him by his ears to the bathroom. spanking is not the BEST or the ONLY way to discipline a child, but i'll be damned if i'm gonna let a 2-3-4-5-6...year old smack me in the face or do any number of things i see kids doing out in public and do anything other than bust their...bubble. in fact, i've always done a lot of threatening and not much spanking. when i would spank, i'd get laughed at by my kids and anyone watching me spank them! 2 weeks ago i was fed up and i held them over my knee and spanked them FOR REAL! ever since that day my life has been MUCH more stress free. they start acting up and i tell them i'm going to spank them - a REAL spanking - like the one i gave them when they actually cried. they straighten up quick. i can still count on one hand the number of times i've really spanked them cus i'm a wuss when it comes to my kids, but i don't disagree with spanking at all. other people's children is another story though.

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I just have to say...

My husband and I just read this and laughed so hard, we have tears in our eyes....

Our favorite part was:

You are too funny Chickenhauler!!! Thanks for the wonderful laugh this afternoon!

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Not my place. End of story.

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Please understand that I never said I was against spanking one's OWN child. My point is that I'm sure some daycare providers go over and above what is necessary, discipline-wise, whether you wish to believe it or not. We have no way of knowing what providers do when they get utterly frustrated and no other adults are around to see them. What I'm saying is that I certainly would not bring it up that they are allowed to spank my kid because that just opens the door for them to take it a step or more too far.

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i agree with that.

oh, and i do believe people go over and above what is necessary...i've seen it. i can't tell u how many times i've seen providers squeezing kid's wrists when it looks like to an outsider that they are "leading" a child who is throwing a fit by the hand. in reality, the kid is screaming cus their arm is being squeezed off.

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That could be true. But I'm always afraid someone will think I'm squeezing the child's arm off, when actually the child keeps running for the road (or somewhere else they can't go) so for their safety (or another child's if they keep hitting someone) I hold onto their hand as we walk, while they're throwing a tantrum trying to run from me. When the child is trying to get away, you have to hold on pretty tight so they can't get away and do it again. But to hear them scream bloody murder, you'd think I was trying to hurt them!

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oh yeah, i know kids really do throw fits when someone is holding them by the hand/arm. i don't doubt that. but that's exactly why it makes it easy for people to take advantage of how that looks. i've known a couple of people who would do it and it was sick.

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IDK what we'd do if a kid calls my bluff.....that could get ugly, fast. (me standing there being completely ineffectual).

I know that with the wife, they'd call her bluff, but I'm a fairly big guy with a big bushy beard and that "deep scary dad voice" that rarely ever gets raised, so when the volume goes up two notches, they all start thinking "Uh-oh" and that usually ends it right there.

Thankfully, we don't have any daredevils in the bunch that are fearless.

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wow IS ALL I can say! As a childcare provider for 11 years and a licensed foster parent with many many hours of training on discpline.

First and for most i do nt believe in letting the child get away with somehting needs my attention! But spanking is not the answer. If your child keeps going back doing naughty things after time out.... KEEP placing him there in time out... it is hard work and might not be what you want to so... but come on he is your child. I would have the childcare provider be on board with placing him back in time out EVERY time... and communicate with you when you pick up. Therefore the parent can follow through at home with a talk... or more actions by taking a special toy away for a period of time... no Tv, early bedtime... something else...to show the child that he cannot get away with it at providers house either.

CONSISTANTLY is the key.. the same discipline needs to happen every TIME for the same offense to work.

Also a highly reccommanded book to check out at the library or to buy as I have several highlighted areas and refer back to this book many times a years for the past several years is:

1-2-3 Magic.

And remember Anger is just the symptom of fear! Think of when you get cut off while driving.. your adrinlene getts pumping and you get anger.... why cuz of the fear of getting hit. This is true with kids and parents in general... Many anger parents fear is losing control of children... BUT what they dont realize is that they already lost control when they become anger.

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I would love for the more senior experienced to list some of the other more acceptable methods of discipline. This is a great discussion!

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This definitely depends on the ages of the chldren.
In general, if we are talking about Preschool, these are a few:

-removal from activity- This means the child is led away with an eye-to-eye level explanation of the unwanted behavior, followed by a basic statement of the behavior you expect. They may sit away from the action but within eyesight, I generally use 1 minute per year of age.

-removal of toy or object causing problem- If kids are fighting over something, you step in and ask for the toy with your hand out. You place it out of sight while explaining that it will come out when everyone is playing nicely with each other. (or whenever you decide)

-body language trick- (use sparingly, it can be a little scary to a small one) If someone is throwing a tantrum or being defiant, you use your eyes and hands/arms to point to the area you need them to go to while repeating yourself. example: Tommy will not stop riding the tricycle at clean up time. You call his name and remind him what you want. He ignores or says 'NO." You would stop the trike at the handlebars, and look him in the eye, say 'it is time to line up.' then with your eyes, look at the line up area while pointing straight to it. you do not move your arm, keep pointing. Repeat "Go line up." while looking at the line up area and pointing. I know it sounds weird, but it will throw them off that you are not showing anything but being very clear about the next step. This trick usually works for those kids that will act out to get any attention, negative or otherwise.

As a rule, I never threaten anything I am not willing to see through, I never touch a child during discipline, unless it is a matter of someone getting hurt, and I always try to hug it out. And finally, FOLLOW THROUGH AND FOLLOW UP!!!

-

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..........

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I don't think he was trying to be funny. He's being frighteningly honest. Our boy can be such a devil child. He has good days too, especially when he's sleeping.

The dc kids won't call my bluff. Here's why- Usually our 5yr old is involved as well, and if it's bad enough to warrant him a spanking the dc kids hear him cry and realize that I mean business and they want no part of that. It is usually while they are in the corner or time-out chair. Also, when the parents show up I make each child tell the parent what they did that was wrong. They also usually tell their parents that my ds got spanked. 9 times out of 10 when they mention that the parents say hmmm... sounds like johnny needs a spanking too. Now whether or not johnny gets spanked when they get home I don't know. I can tell you that the dc kids DREAD telling their parents of their misbehavior. That sometimes is enough to make dc kids think long and hard before continuing down their track of wrong doings.

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its not physically abuse to spank your child if you choose some to spank your child whomever is watching them they become the parent for the time your away endless you want them to run all over everyone they come in contact with and be spoiled brats their whole life i got spanked all the time when i was a kid who ever watched me if i was being bad hell ya they had permission to spank me cause my mom was working all the time my boys get spanked if hey are bad or corner time

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Punctuation...it's a good thing.

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Have you noticed that the ones that "bump" up a thread are always unregistered

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very well said miss nikki!
Using a physical method is only teaching children to be physical. Not to mention, in a heated moment, you can forget your own strength.

Go down to your local bookstore, pick up a book called "Nanny 9-11".

I know how you feel, and understand that you are trying to create consistency within the punishments.
Consistency means that the child will know the consequences of their actions. But consistency doesn't mean that every person you know has to use the same methods. In a school setting, a teacher would never spank, they may put your child in time out, or send them to the office. Really bad behavioural consequences could mean suspending your child or expelling. etc. When you go to your job, you know, that if you don't behave appropriately, or aren't doing what you are supposed to do or are expected to do, you would be fired.

For each situation there is a different consequence. But your child will know that at daycare, he will receive a time out, or whatever method the daycare uses. While the parents are there, they test their limits because often once a parent enters the home, the child often doesn't know "who" is in charge at the moment, or they know parents/caregivers are distracted.

Growing up, I received a few well deserved spankings of my own. BUT was threatened so often with the belt I was terrified of my father growing up.

You need to teach your kids the proper way to deal with anger, frustration, and any other emotion they may encounter in life. They can't hit their boss because they are mad!

Often we forget just how hard the simple things are for kids. Spoon feeding themselves, dressing themselves, expressing emotions, etc. We place a lot more responsibilities on children then often they can handle.

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I cannot stress this enough.....


DO NOT BLUFF! when they call your bluff you're officially been defeated and they will forever test to see if you are bluffing. However bad your child is at 2 yo, times that by 10 when they are 12 yo. Get my drift?

Never EVER EVER threaten your child with something unless you have every single intention of following through with it. So make sure it is something that you can.

I had a lady from a program I was in give me a challenge. I told her "NO PROBLEM that's too easy!".
She told me to take a piece of paper or a notebook. For 1 week, everytime you use the word no, put a tick, checkmark whatever to show how many times you use it.
Then for 1 week, don't use the word no at all. And if you had to use the word no, for lack of any other way to deal with something, make sure to follow it with "No Johnny, we can't go there today, but we can go another day" or whatever.

Really makes you stop and think about how often you say NO to your kids, and never follow through with an explaination. To them everythings no, and eventually it's like hey, whatever, mom/dad always say no.

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No, I would not allow your child care provider to spank your child. The child care provider has to protect herself...If another child would go home and tell their parents that their teacher spanked your child, their parents could possibly report her.

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We're not allowed to here either, and even if we WERE, there is no way in HECK I would. I don't spank my own son, I would never spank someone else's....

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I spanked my own child on occasion when she was younger if it seemed like the best course of action to take. I've been given permission by some of my daycare parents to give their kids a spanking if they need it and while I appreciate that the parents trust my judgement, I've never taken a parent up on the offer. Even if it wasn't illegal in my state, I still wouldn't do it because that's a responsibility that doesn't belong to me. I don't have a problem with parents spanking their own kids, though. I just don't want to do it. I don't really need to do it. I'm not saying that because I think I'm awesome (which I'm not), I say it because I have found that following through on what I say that I'll do is encouragement enough for my daycare kids to behave themselves at my house. I am consistent even when it would be easier to just give in. I think that being consistent really helps because kids learn what to expect.

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