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  #1  
Old 02-18-2014, 10:24 AM
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Default Question for NY Providers (Regs)

The drinking reg - so we are now only allowed to serve water, milk, or 100% juice. Does that mean I can't give the kids hot cocoa occasionally?!
Obviously not something I did often, but it was always nice on a cold day to have it as a special treat.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:29 AM
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That's how I interpreted it
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:31 AM
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I JUST had an inspection last week, and that was one of the things I asked. YES, NOTHING but water, (unflavored) milk and 100% juice, when/if the food program allows it. I have kids who DO NOT drink water AT ALL. Several, in fact and I used to serve very diluted Gatorade in summer to help prevent dehydration. Now I have NO IDEA how we will be able to spend more time outside.

It is RIDICULOUS, imho. These new regs are over the top.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:40 AM
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I JUST had an inspection last week, and that was one of the things I asked. YES, NOTHING but water, (unflavored) milk and 100% juice, when/if the food program allows it. I have kids who DO NOT drink water AT ALL. Several, in fact and I used to serve very diluted Gatorade in summer to help prevent dehydration. Now I have NO IDEA how we will be able to spend more time outside.

It is RIDICULOUS, imho. These new regs are over the top.
Today we were outside playing. Of course when the kids came in they asked for hot cocoa. I had to say we couldn't have it
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:58 AM
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I JUST had an inspection last week, and that was one of the things I asked. YES, NOTHING but water, (unflavored) milk and 100% juice, when/if the food program allows it.
do you have no right to give it to children OR you have no right to claim it if you give it to children?
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:13 AM
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do you have no right to give it to children OR you have no right to claim it if you give it to children?
We have no right to give it to them with the new regulations. Before I could give it to them even though it wasn't creditable.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:18 AM
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We have no right to give it to them with the new regulations. Before I could give it to them even though it wasn't creditable.
where can i see the new regulations? Thanks.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:16 PM
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How are they going to know unless they see you?

Whoops. You didn't hear me say that.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:31 PM
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I just went back and read the new regs. It says WE cant serve it as providers, but it also says when provided by the parent, beverages are not subject to the regulatory beverage standards.

Guess who just brought the hot chocolate to share. LOL
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Old 02-18-2014, 03:17 PM
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How are they going to know unless they see you?

Whoops. You didn't hear me say that.
The problem with this is that my licensor chats with the kids when she pops in. She asks them all about their day, their favorite food at lunch, what they like the best to do at my house, etc. of course the kids will say "we watched MOVIES and ate CANDY and I love when we watch TV!!!
(We obviously don't do those things often but that's what they say )
Do I think giving them a hot cocoa is a big deal in the grand scheme of things? No . But I don't want to get into the habit of picking and choosing what regs to follow. That's when you get sloppy, IMO
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:40 AM
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The problem with this is that my licensor chats with the kids when she pops in. She asks them all about their day, their favorite food at lunch, what they like the best to do at my house, etc. of course the kids will say "we watched MOVIES and ate CANDY and I love when we watch TV!!!
(We obviously don't do those things often but that's what they say )
Do I think giving them a hot cocoa is a big deal in the grand scheme of things? No . But I don't want to get into the habit of picking and choosing what regs to follow. That's when you get sloppy, IMO

I don't think it's so much "getting sloppy" as it is using common sense. Having hot chocolate once a month after sleigh riding isn't going to kill them. JMO, of course.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:30 AM
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Stupid regulations like this one are why I decided to switch to legally unlicensed care in December. Of course my income will take a hit with only being allowed to care for 2 children at a time (at this point 2 would be an improvement, as I have only had 1 since September and she just switched to PT last month) but I refuse to let the state dictate my entire life! Don't get me wrong, I have no problem following regulatins, but the new ones are over the top, in my opinion. I went into this business so I could be my own boss, not be micromanaged with everything I do. End of vent. Sorry to hijack your thread!
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:35 AM
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I don't think it's so much "getting sloppy" as it is using common sense. Having hot chocolate once a month after sleigh riding isn't going to kill them. JMO, of course.
I agree. However my licensor has said that they find if a provider isn't following minor regs they are also breaking bigger ones. Shrugs.

My common sense is just fine. It's what keeps me from stating on a public forum that I break regs
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:37 AM
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Stupid regulations like this one are why I decided to switch to legally unlicensed care in December. Of course my income will take a hit with only being allowed to care for 2 children at a time (at this point 2 would be an improvement, as I have only had 1 since September and she just switched to PT last month) but I refuse to let the state dictate my entire life! Don't get me wrong, I have no problem following regulatins, but the new ones are over the top, in my opinion. I went into this business so I could be my own boss, not be micromanaged with everything I do. End of vent. Sorry to hijack your thread!
I wish I could go this route! I have eight dck's. In my area they do frequent shake downs for illegal providers, so I would have to go to two...I can't afford that
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:41 AM
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I wish I could go this route! I have eight dck's. In my area they do frequent shake downs for illegal providers, so I would have to go to two...I can't afford that
I have 9, and can't afford to do it legally unlicensed and I won't go illegally. Way too much risk here as well.

I also do not break regs. I almost have a panic attack when I walk into a room and I am missing an outlet plug or something.

What kills me is SOME of the regs are SOOO mild. There is nothing in there about furniture needing to be anchored, soacing between deck rails (a child just died locally because she fell off an elevated deck-through the rails) or mixing valves required on sinks to avoid scalding. It is a RECOMMENDATION that we lower our water tank temp (ours is tankless, and NO WAY am I missing a HOT shower). But having hot cocoa or chocolate milk is SOOOO bad they made a reg? That's the state for you.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:57 AM
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I have 9, and can't afford to do it legally unlicensed and I won't go illegally. Way too much risk here as well.

I also do not break regs. I almost have a panic attack when I walk into a room and I am missing an outlet plug or something.

What kills me is SOME of the regs are SOOO mild. There is nothing in there about furniture needing to be anchored, soacing between deck rails (a child just died locally because she fell off an elevated deck-through the rails) or mixing valves required on sinks to avoid scalding. It is a RECOMMENDATION that we lower our water tank temp (ours is tankless, and NO WAY am I missing a HOT shower). But having hot cocoa or chocolate milk is SOOOO bad they made a reg? That's the state for you.
I think it's totally ridiculous and a HUGE overstep of government!
I know there are some providers who feel all this oversite/ STAR/QIRS will give providers a more professional image. All it does for me locally is make me look pretentious in my area parents want a BABYSITTER to keep their kids safe during the day. They are all thrilled I'm licensed *until* I have to enforce a regulation and tell them no of course all the other providers who don't follow regs in order to kiss parent butt aren't helping either...
My licensor has said that they find when providers are not following the "little" regs they also tend to not follow the bigger ones - and if they catch it they pop in more. Too much pressure
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:20 AM
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I agree. However my licensor has said that they find if a provider isn't following minor regs they are also breaking bigger ones. Shrugs.

My common sense is just fine. It's what keeps me from stating on a public forum that I break regs
I totally hear you.

I wasn't saying YOU didn't have common sense....I hope you didn't take it like that. LOL
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:38 AM
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I totally hear you.

I wasn't saying YOU didn't have common sense....I hope you didn't take it like that. LOL
I may have taken it that way
I am a little sensitive now, I've got a lot of dc crud I'm dealing with (thus my "everyone loves that I'm licensed until I have to enforce a regulation and tell them no" comment )
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:39 AM
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I have 9, and can't afford to do it legally unlicensed and I won't go illegally. Way too much risk here as well.

I also do not break regs. I almost have a panic attack when I walk into a room and I am missing an outlet plug or something.

What kills me is SOME of the regs are SOOO mild. There is nothing in there about furniture needing to be anchored, soacing between deck rails (a child just died locally because she fell off an elevated deck-through the rails) or mixing valves required on sinks to avoid scalding. It is a RECOMMENDATION that we lower our water tank temp (ours is tankless, and NO WAY am I missing a HOT shower). But having hot cocoa or chocolate milk is SOOOO bad they made a reg? That's the state for you.
I though the lower water temp was a reg?
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:45 AM
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I may have taken it that way
I am a little sensitive now, I've got a lot of dc crud I'm dealing with (thus my "everyone loves that I'm licensed until I have to enforce a regulation and tell them no" comment )
Oh my no, I'm sorry. I meant "common sense" as in.....I cant give them hot chocolate within moderation, but I don't have to have my shelf anchored....LOL

They worry over stupid stuff, that should be common sense, and ignore more important things...which should be common sense. LOL
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:49 AM
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I think it's totally ridiculous and a HUGE overstep of government!
I know there are some providers who feel all this oversite/ STAR/QIRS will give providers a more professional image. All it does for me locally is make me look pretentious in my area parents want a BABYSITTER to keep their kids safe during the day. They are all thrilled I'm licensed *until* I have to enforce a regulation and tell them no of course all the other providers who don't follow regs in order to kiss parent butt aren't helping either...
My licensor has said that they find when providers are not following the "little" regs they also tend to not follow the bigger ones - and if they catch it they pop in more. Too much pressure
I was told it was a recommendation, not a reg. When I got inspected, they looked in all three bathrooms. He turned the water on in my first floor bath and said "It's hot, might think about turning down your hot water heater." so we got into a discussion. I looked through my entire reg book and couldn't find it either.

I haven't received a new reg book, either. Are we supposed to get one? Might be nice to have a copy of the rules we are supposed to be following.

I keep saying it, but all of this stuff that will supposedly help increase quality care is only doing the opposite. GOOD providers are going unlicensed (legal or illegal) to avoid it, if you stay up and running, the paperwork alone is insane and will DEFINITELY take away from the time spent with the children AND it means CRAP to the crappy providers out there anyway.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:50 AM
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The whole thing really just frustrates me because there is a woman in town who is illegal and has 15 or more kids. They show up, sure....but she just refuses to answer the door, and there is NOTHING the state can do about it if she doesn't let them in. Meanwhile I cant give my kids a freakin' cup of chocolate milk?!
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:54 AM
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The whole thing really just frustrates me because there is a woman in town who is illegal and has 15 or more kids. They show up, sure....but she just refuses to answer the door, and there is NOTHING the state can do about it if she doesn't let them in. Meanwhile I cant give my kids a freakin' cup of chocolate milk?!
I know! So ridiculous!
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:57 AM
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I just wish there was something we could DO, ya know? Obviously they didn't care when people expressed concerns during the comment session.

A provider on another forum pointed out that it's like punishing the dck's - you *have* to be in dc and now you can't even have an occasional treat
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:57 AM
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Do any of you have local associations?

This would be a great time to either join one or start one. Groups of providers make a LOUD voice when necessary.

Sometimes the rules DO suck and they need REAL voices (actual providers) to revolt and change something...especially the ridiculous rules being imposed on you.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:01 AM
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Do any of you have local associations?

This would be a great time to either join one or start one. Groups of providers make a LOUD voice when necessary.

Sometimes the rules DO suck and they need REAL voices (actual providers) to revolt and change something...especially the ridiculous rules being imposed on you.


I was just going to suggest this. I just wrote about our association on Blandino's post about child care associations.

I was just thinking about N.Y. providers when I wrote it. It sounds like they are going bonkers there.

Laurel
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:03 AM
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Do any of you have local associations?

This would be a great time to either join one or start one. Groups of providers make a LOUD voice when necessary.

Sometimes the rules DO suck and they need REAL voices (actual providers) to revolt and change something...especially the ridiculous rules being imposed on you.
We tried locally, but the drama, bickering, and backstabbing between the providers ended that quickly.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:07 AM
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We tried locally, but the drama, bickering, and backstabbing between the providers ended that quickly.
Here too. Wayyy too many cooks in this soup. We couldn't even have a successful local child care provider facebook group for a few months. Everyone went insane. Client stealing, rate setting, bad mouthing.

Gotta watch out for those NY'ers!
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:13 AM
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Here too. Wayyy too many cooks in this soup. We couldn't even have a successful local child care provider facebook group for a few months. Everyone went insane. Client stealing, rate setting, bad mouthing.

Gotta watch out for those NY'ers!
hahahaha I guess so!
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:17 AM
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I have 9, and can't afford to do it legally unlicensed and I won't go illegally. Way too much risk here as well.

I also do not break regs. I almost have a panic attack when I walk into a room and I am missing an outlet plug or something.

What kills me is SOME of the regs are SOOO mild. There is nothing in there about furniture needing to be anchored, soacing between deck rails (a child just died locally because she fell off an elevated deck-through the rails) or mixing valves required on sinks to avoid scalding. It is a RECOMMENDATION that we lower our water tank temp (ours is tankless, and NO WAY am I missing a HOT shower). But having hot cocoa or chocolate milk is SOOOO bad they made a reg? That's the state for you.
Might not be a reg. but my licensor made me put intermittent rails on my deck up before I initially got licensed.

I personally agree that we (as a whole) cannot pick and choose which regs we will or will not follow. I ache in the summer to use a kiddie pool but don't do it- NOT because I won't be supervising 100%, NOT because I won't drain and clean it daily, but because it is a reg. In my little house, I can hear myself breathing on the listening end of the monitor at naptime, but I still plug it in everyday - NOT because it is helpful, but because it is a reg.

I too have mini-heart attacks over missing outlet covers and covers on the outside trash cans...my teenagers think I am crazy!
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:35 AM
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Might not be a reg. but my licensor made me put intermittent rails on my deck up before I initially got licensed.

I personally agree that we (as a whole) cannot pick and choose which regs we will or will not follow. I ache in the summer to use a kiddie pool but don't do it- NOT because I won't be supervising 100%, NOT because I won't drain and clean it daily, but because it is a reg. In my little house, I can hear myself breathing on the listening end of the monitor at naptime, but I still plug it in everyday - NOT because it is helpful, but because it is a reg.

I too have mini-heart attacks over missing outlet covers and covers on the outside trash cans...my teenagers think I am crazy!
Hey, listen, I'm not saying I'm a rule breaker either. I just think the state should have more important things to do than worry about the hot chocolate we have after sleigh riding....like the local provider with the loaded guns out on her night stand. All she got was a slap on her hand.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:57 AM
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I thought the regs don't go in effect until May.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:05 AM
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I thought the regs don't go in effect until May.
I think they go into full effect in April or May.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:06 AM
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Hey, listen, I'm not saying I'm a rule breaker either. I just think the state should have more important things to do than worry about the hot chocolate we have after sleigh riding....like the local provider with the loaded guns out on her night stand. All she got was a slap on her hand.
It's so irritating because they HAVE regulations that they can't/ don't enforce! They say they can shut providers down but how often does it happen?!
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:28 PM
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Could one of you NY providers send the link to the new regs? I'd love to read them. Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:39 PM
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Hey, listen, I'm not saying I'm a rule breaker either. I just think the state should have more important things to do than worry about the hot chocolate we have after sleigh riding....like the local provider with the loaded guns out on her night stand. All she got was a slap on her hand.
Oh Melskids, I didn't think you were! I am just frustrated with some of the regs! I agree the state needs to get a life and stop dreaming up unrealistic rules that are impossible to monitor or enforce.
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:59 PM
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Could one of you NY providers send the link to the new regs? I'd love to read them. Thanks.
http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/childcare/regs/417_FDC_regs.asp


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Oh Melskids, I didn't think you were! I am just frustrated with some of the regs! I agree the state needs to get a life and stop dreaming up unrealistic rules that are impossible to monitor or enforce.
I think that is all of our frustrations!
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:36 AM
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The problem with this is that my licensor chats with the kids when she pops in. She asks them all about their day, their favorite food at lunch, what they like the best to do at my house, etc. of course the kids will say "we watched MOVIES and ate CANDY and I love when we watch TV!!!
(We obviously don't do those things often but that's what they say )
Do I think giving them a hot cocoa is a big deal in the grand scheme of things? No . But I don't want to get into the habit of picking and choosing what regs to follow. That's when you get sloppy, IMO
This happened to me during an USDA inspection. I was completely innocent. The DCM and I had a conversation the previous evening during pick-up. She told me how much DCB loved Nutella. During snack time the next day DCB exclaims as I am spreading peanut butter on a rice cake, “Please put the chocolate stuff on it.”

The inspector gave me the look over her glassed, “You know that’s not creditable.”

I replied, “I know.” I just decided to protest or explain it would make me appear to be covering up my alleged Nutella crime.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:33 PM
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Is there any possibility that the ban is on those hot cocoa packets that you add water to make the instant drink and not on a glass of milk that you warm on the stove and add cocoa powder to - or is it the actual chocolate powder that's banned? I don't serve chocolate milk so I've never given it much thought but it would seem that by giving kids a glass of milk with a little bit of chocolate Quik would still meet the milk requirment?????

I remember several years ago there was a question in our area about serving chocolate pudding for snack or dessert. (Doesn't meet food program eligibility for reimbursement.) One of the food program reps at the time suggested that there was nothing stating you couldn't put a little chocolate pudding powder in a bowl and if, say, one of the kids just happened to pour some of their fluid milk into the powder well then.....what can you do? I don't serve pudding here but I laughed thinking there's a way to get around just about any rule or regulation, isn't there?
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:26 PM
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Just had to add....I was organizing my day care paperwork and found my copy of the February/March "What's Cookin'" newsletter I receive from the food program. Guess what they have a recipe for on page 4? Under the recipe for Hot Cocoa, they state, "Makes 8 servings of 1/2 cup of milk for each 3-5 year old at snack".

I know there may be a difference between what the food program allows and what state regulations allow but, based on the fact that the food program allows for hot cocoa, I'd question my licensor about the state reg.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:05 AM
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Is there any possibility that the ban is on those hot cocoa packets that you add water to make the instant drink and not on a glass of milk that you warm on the stove and add cocoa powder to - or is it the actual chocolate powder that's banned? I don't serve chocolate milk so I've never given it much thought but it would seem that by giving kids a glass of milk with a little bit of chocolate Quik would still meet the milk requirment?????

I remember several years ago there was a question in our area about serving chocolate pudding for snack or dessert. (Doesn't meet food program eligibility for reimbursement.) One of the food program reps at the time suggested that there was nothing stating you couldn't put a little chocolate pudding powder in a bowl and if, say, one of the kids just happened to pour some of their fluid milk into the powder well then.....what can you do? I don't serve pudding here but I laughed thinking there's a way to get around just about any rule or regulation, isn't there?
IIRC, the wording of the reg is that providers can ONLY serve unflavored milk, water or 100% juice. I don't know that there is a way around that.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:44 PM
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Yeah, if that's the wording, it really does sound as though there's only one way to interpret the reg. Oh well. I guess the kids will have to wait until they go home to get some hot cocoa.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:43 PM
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The last time I spoke with my licensor he did mention the new regs coming out, but I know he didn't mention anything about hot chocolate. Not saying it isn't in there, but he didn't tell me. I did however a couple days ago get an invitation to a meeting at my local Family Enrichment Network office... to go over the new regulations before they take effect. The invite also says that the office of Children and Family Services will have representatives there to answer any questions.

Should be a good time. I think I will stop by for a bit..
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:21 AM
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Yeah, if that's the wording, it really does sound as though there's only one way to interpret the reg. Oh well. I guess the kids will have to wait until they go home to get some hot cocoa.
I guess I'm one of the only ones who has kids who get PLENTY of junk at home, including chioclate milk after they leave here at midnight... And Mountain Dew... And a junky snack...

I agree this reg is stupid but I'm sure very few of our daycare kids families would refuse to give them chocolate anything.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:57 AM
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I guess I'm one of the only ones who has kids who get PLENTY of junk at home, including chioclate milk after they leave here at midnight... And Mountain Dew... And a junky snack...

I agree this reg is stupid but I'm sure very few of our daycare kids families would refuse to give them chocolate anything.
Oh, for sure! And mostly my rule has always been "if your parents want you to have ____________, they will give it to you." But I've always done hot cocoa a few times during the winter, or apple cider for parties, etc.
I feel as though there are so few things we can do, and this reg is one that robs children of the simple pleasures of being a kid.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:17 AM
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My licensor was here Friday. She said that while WE cant give them the beverages in question....if the parents supply it, they can have it. However, each parent has to bring the beverage for their OWN child.

So the day we go sleigh riding, I'll just be sure to have each parent send a packet of hot chocolate. LOL
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:44 PM
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I find the food program rules in different states so confusing and yet it is a FEDERAL program!

I am in Utah. We can give the children anything we want as an extra as long as they get the REQUIRED portions of the REQUIRED food.

So I could give them hot chocolate as long as I gave them the set item on the food program FIRST. So milk and snack could be FOLLOWED by hot chocolate.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:51 PM
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I find the food program rules in different states so confusing and yet it is a FEDERAL program!

I am in Utah. We can give the children anything we want as an extra as long as they get the REQUIRED portions of the REQUIRED food.

So I could give them hot chocolate as long as I gave them the set item on the food program FIRST. So milk and snack could be FOLLOWED by hot chocolate.
Same here!
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:26 AM
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I find the food program rules in different states so confusing and yet it is a FEDERAL program!

I am in Utah. We can give the children anything we want as an extra as long as they get the REQUIRED portions of the REQUIRED food.

So I could give them hot chocolate as long as I gave them the set item on the food program FIRST. So milk and snack could be FOLLOWED by hot chocolate.
Right. But this new rule is actually a regulation, and has nothing to do with the food program at all. It's for all providers, whether you are on the food program or not.
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:33 AM
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Right. But this new rule is actually a regulation, and has nothing to do with the food program at all. It's for all providers, whether you are on the food program or not.
Exactly! Essentially we have a LAW saying the kids can only have water, unflavored milk, or 100% juice. I guess I find that disturbing...
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:10 AM
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Exactly! Essentially we have a LAW saying the kids can only have water, unflavored milk, or 100% juice. I guess I find that disturbing...
Yup, a regulation not a food program rule. Which, imho is WORSE since it is NOT OPTIONAL to not participate where food program IS optional.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:44 AM
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Ok, after reading all that again.... can I ask what really is the big deal?

If licensing says you can only give water, mild and 100% fruit juice...just serve those things then.

I guess I am not seeing what the fuss is about. I understand that a lot of licensing regulation are getting a bit ridiculous about common sense but this isn't the first or last thing that we will see change in this direction.

If you really take a hard look at the world of childcare over the last 20 years, this is the same direction we've all been heading in for a while now.

We've had endless threads about the silly things we can or can't do because of licensing so this is really no different than anything else.

Just don't serve anything other than the approved beverages and leave it at that. If kids want hot cocoa, they a can have it at home instead of daycare.

If your kids want hot cocoa, give them some. They are YOUR kids.

If parents don't like that you can't serve something direct them to licensing and tell them to take it up with them.

If the providers in your area can't stop bickering, being dramatic etc and work together towards a common goal, (in an association) the parents will either need to do it instead or too or licensed providers will simply have to continue following all the changes and rules that will continue to be placed upon us.

I guess I don't see any other way around it.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:11 AM
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Black cat, no one is saying it's the end of the world. Simply that this regulation seems more, I dunno, "big brotherish" then what we are used to. It's the slippery slope that is troubling. And while other areas have had some really doozies of regs passed, our state has usually been pretty even keeled.

The ironic thing is that I only serve water and milk at my day care. I just don't like being told that's all I *can* serve.

And we were given an opportunity to comment on the proposed regs - they were roundly slammed by ALL associations, union reps, etc.

They passed anyway.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:24 AM
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Black cat, no one is saying it's the end of the world. Simply that this regulation seems more, I dunno, "big brotherish" then what we are used to. It's the slippery slope that is troubling. And while other areas have had some really doozies of regs passed, our state has usually been pretty even keeled.

The ironic thing is that I only serve water and milk at my day care. I just don't like being told that's all I *can* serve.

And we were given an opportunity to comment on the proposed regs - they were roundly slammed by ALL associations, union reps, etc.

They passed anyway.
Yes, this is what bothers me. That they asked for our feedback, we responded in droves with a resounding NO to some of the new regs....and they went ahead and passed them anyway. How do you even go about getting them to listen AFTER they refused to listen before. ?

Due to he new regs, I have to install a new egress window in my basement, in a non daycare area, (in an UNFINISHED area) because the former window we had to install when I was first licensed here is no longer in compliance. They changed it from a minimum of X in by X inches to square footage. Ours is off by 3 effing inches. I have until May, but dh cant dig it out until the snow thaws.

I also have to find a way (still haven't come up with something with a big enough space) so that the daycare blankets and pillows do not touch. Even though they are washed nightly and put away (folded and stacked on top of each other) I at least understand the reasoning behind this reg, it's just a hassle.

The milk/water/juice thing bothers me. It seems very big brother, as playcare said. I also know providers who are hopping mad about it, as they aren't on the food program for a reason. They serve what they want, and now they can't.

I very much feel like I am less and less of a small business owner and more and more of a franchise owner, if that makes sense. I used to like the freedom of giving them Gatorade in hot summer months (I have 3 kids who absolutely refuse to drink water) and hot chocolate after snow play. I no longer have that freedom. What's next on this slippery slope? TELLING me what to charge? what I can't drink myself? What I can't have in the house?
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:32 AM
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The other part of this childhood obesity reg is that we're required to give the parents information about nutrition. Along w/ all the other handouts & info we're supposed to give them. I didn't go into this business to parent the parents!
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:47 AM
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Black cat, no one is saying it's the end of the world. Simply that this regulation seems more, I dunno, "big brotherish" then what we are used to. It's the slippery slope that is troubling. And while other areas have had some really doozies of regs passed, our state has usually been pretty even keeled.

The ironic thing is that I only serve water and milk at my day care. I just don't like being told that's all I *can* serve.

And we were given an opportunity to comment on the proposed regs - they were roundly slammed by ALL associations, union reps, etc.

They passed anyway.
I know it's not the end of the world. I just don't think not being able to serve hot cocoa warrants this much attention.

Seems this isn't the first move towards governing what providers can and can't do in their own homes. We see it pretty regularly here. Some providers are even told exactly what their own children can and can't do in their own homes.

Seems your state is just now catching up with it's big brother duties...

Like I said before, it's too bad your associations aren't a better outlet for you and other providers who aren't happy about these changes. I would most definitely be thinking of ways to start an association that DOES represent how you feel. I would also be lobbying for a better union rep as the union rep is suppose to voice the opinion of the providers they represent.

I sympathize with you guys... I really do. I don't want you to think I am jumping on you about this....

I guess for me, it just seems like it's common with what's happening in the world of family child care and nothing I am surprised about.

Sadly this won't be the first strange reg you guys will be required to follow. I am sure there are more to come....which is why I would definitely be thinking of ways to have a voice and be heard.

Hang in there.... I am falling back on the notion that putting family child care providers (or at least family-style care) out of business as the "hidden" agenda that is happening across the country.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:51 AM
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The other part of this childhood obesity reg is that we're required to give the parents information about nutrition. Along w/ all the other handouts & info we're supposed to give them. I didn't go into this business to parent the parents!
One of THE biggest areas of the star rating system is to partner with and connect with parents.

In other words, parent the parent.

You may not have gotten into this business to do that, but it will soon be a requirement.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:57 AM
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I am surprised that I read more providers upset about the drink thing than the no tv and internet for the provider thing. I see that on all my daycare boards. I don't serve anything but milk and juice so it wouldn't affect me. The no tv and internet would make me quit doing daycare there.

After seeing this on so many forums I'm beginning to wonder if sugar drinks are being given in daycare more than I thought
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:03 AM
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I am surprised that I read more providers upset about the drink thing than the no tv and internet for the provider thing. I see that on all my daycare boards. I don't serve anything but milk and juice so it wouldn't affect me. The no tv and internet would make me quit doing daycare there.

After seeing this on so many forums I'm beginning to wonder if sugar drinks are being given in daycare more than I thought
Yes they are Nannyde! The food program sends out little notices and is ALWAYS telling people to stop serving (in between meals, of course) kool aid, purchased chocolate milk, sunny D and the like).

My registrar just said "don't play candy crush while you are supposed to be supervising the kids. Nobody is going to cite you for doing homework online during nap."
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:08 AM
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Yes, this is what bothers me. That they asked for our feedback, we responded in droves with a resounding NO to some of the new regs....and they went ahead and passed them anyway. How do you even go about getting them to listen AFTER they refused to listen before. ?

Due to he new regs, I have to install a new egress window in my basement, in a non daycare area, (in an UNFINISHED area) because the former window we had to install when I was first licensed here is no longer in compliance. They changed it from a minimum of X in by X inches to square footage. Ours is off by 3 effing inches. I have until May, but dh cant dig it out until the snow thaws.

I also have to find a way (still haven't come up with something with a big enough space) so that the daycare blankets and pillows do not touch. Even though they are washed nightly and put away (folded and stacked on top of each other) I at least understand the reasoning behind this reg, it's just a hassle.

The milk/water/juice thing bothers me. It seems very big brother, as playcare said. I also know providers who are hopping mad about it, as they aren't on the food program for a reason. They serve what they want, and now they can't.

I very much feel like I am less and less of a small business owner and more and more of a franchise owner, if that makes sense. I used to like the freedom of giving them Gatorade in hot summer months (I have 3 kids who absolutely refuse to drink water) and hot chocolate after snow play. I no longer have that freedom. What's next on this slippery slope? TELLING me what to charge? what I can't drink myself? What I can't have in the house?
I see both sides of this---

I used to serve juice and I don't anymore- way too much sugar in it for little bodies. I serve milk and water. but..... for Christmas or a party I might serve 100% juice or juice/vegetable. Treat and when I say treat its not a once a week thing. They get enough of all of that crud at home.

More and more rights being taken away is not good either. Lack of common sense is what gets these rights taken away in the first place-

Gatorade for kids? Not sure on that one for us here. If sick yes,(my own kids) but on a hot summer day water is good enough. I have always found that if a kid is refusing water, its because it is never offered- 99% of the time.

I think its a parents responsibility to ask the provider what they serve for drinks and voice what they want the child to have or not have- Its the providers responsibility to try to educate the parent to make good choices.

I think faces should be put forward on who makes these rules and how they come about public knowledge instead of what feels like put into place in the middle of the night when everyone is sleeping~
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:20 AM
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I am surprised that I read more providers upset about the drink thing than the no tv and internet for the provider thing. I see that on all my daycare boards. I don't serve anything but milk and juice so it wouldn't affect me. The no tv and internet would make me quit doing daycare there.

After seeing this on so many forums I'm beginning to wonder if sugar drinks are being given in daycare more than I thought
For me, it's not about the stupid hot chocolate. LOL It's just what I'm taking my PMS out on this week.

Seriously, my kids get 1% milk and water. If I serve hot chocolate once a season, they're lucky.

It's the fact that my tax dollars go to someone who sits behind a desk and makes up these dumb regulations to begin with. There are providers out there doping kids up with Benadryl to get them to take a nap, meanwhile, they're concerned about what the <bleep> I'm putting in their cup to drink.

OK. Vent over....and I need some chocolate.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:51 AM
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For me, it's not about the stupid hot chocolate. LOL It's just what I'm taking my PMS out on this week.

Seriously, my kids get 1% milk and water. If I serve hot chocolate once a season, they're lucky.

It's the fact that my tax dollars go to someone who sits behind a desk and makes up these dumb regulations to begin with. There are providers out there doping kids up with Benadryl to get them to take a nap, meanwhile, they're concerned about what the <bleep> I'm putting in their cup to drink.

OK. Vent over....and I need some chocolate.
Lol I don't serve juice but I serve sweet tea, home made lemonade and rarely Kool aid... It didn't kill me and it won't kill them.

I'm the type that once licensing is required here, I'm retiring from daycare. I refuse to have another boss.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:37 PM
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I am surprised that I read more providers upset about the drink thing than the no tv and internet for the provider thing. I see that on all my daycare boards. I don't serve anything but milk and juice so it wouldn't affect me. The no tv and internet would make me quit doing daycare there.

After seeing this on so many forums I'm beginning to wonder if sugar drinks are being given in daycare more than I thought
I don't watch tv or play online while kids are up. I also figure it will be an impossible reg to enforce.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:57 PM
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I am surprised that I read more providers upset about the drink thing than the no tv and internet for the provider thing. I see that on all my daycare boards. I don't serve anything but milk and juice so it wouldn't affect me. The no tv and internet would make me quit doing daycare there.

After seeing this on so many forums I'm beginning to wonder if sugar drinks are being given in daycare more than I thought
I am way more upset about the "personal media" thing...for the sole reason that this is my home and any means through which they plan to monitor this will be a TOTAL invasion of privacy.

As far as the beverage reg. goes, I see it as an unnecessary interference. I only serve milk with meals and water with snack, but about once a year we have hot chocolate after sledding, we have a tea party every Valentine's Day (with real tea), we try apple cider in the fall, etc. I think mandating that we can never do these things is outrageous and going to far. I know children who are not allowed to have cookies, candy, etc. EVER and they have an unhealthy craving for these things. They hide, hoard, and binge on them when they do get an opportunity to have them. I don't think that is healthy. Everything in moderation.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:58 PM
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Yes they are Nannyde! The food program sends out little notices and is ALWAYS telling people to stop serving (in between meals, of course) kool aid, purchased chocolate milk, sunny D and the like).

My registrar just said "don't play candy crush while you are supposed to be supervising the kids. Nobody is going to cite you for doing homework online during nap."
And that's the rub - there is no way to protest the tv/computer thing without being accused of constantly being on the puter or watching tv
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:50 AM
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Seriously, make it easy on yourself, just serve water and milk. That's what I do. I used to serve juice but texas dfps made a rule that the children were only allowed 4oz of juice per day......food program says it takes 8oz to make a serving so.....bye bye juice. Milk with meals, WATER all day long. It takes the new kids a couple of days but they get used to it quickly. Now I have children who beg for water even when it is meal time and I give them milk.

Potty training is SO much easier without the added juice

There are less diapers bc dck does not just absently suck the whole cup down and want more

Washing out sippy cups is lots less disgusting, especially the ones you find hidden in random places throughout the house


It just makes the day so much simpler. I love it.

And for some reason it makes it that much easier to look at said child who is begging for some off the wall drink and say, "I'm sorry little dck but I am just not allowed to give you that" and walk off because you REALLY aren't.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:40 PM
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I wonder why none of the agencies are looking at almond, rice, and soy milk as accepted drinks. NOT in place of milk but for snacks in the place of juice.

I love all of them. My kids do too. I don't give soy to the babies but the older ones like almond and rice.
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