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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>DC Providers Cannot Have Medical M cards
Country Kids 08:57 AM 08-14-2014
in my state or anyone in the household. We were notified by letter as of yesterday.

Even though legal in my state it is still considered a controlled substance under Federal Law.

If you have one you may volunitrily give up your license and close your child care. If you don't you may have legal action taken against you or you license suspended.

Even if legal it will be still classified not able to use during childcare hours and fall under the tobacco/alcohol area.
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nannyde 09:04 AM 08-14-2014
can you copy and post the letter please?
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Blackcat31 09:04 AM 08-14-2014
I don't see why it would be any different than alcohol.

It's legal but not for use during certain times.

I agree with that limitation.

I think right now, it's the best they can do (the limitation)

Plus, a majority of reasons (not all) as to why a person has a medical marijuana card are things that would probably eliminate them as a good candidate for child care anyways...kwim?

We've been discussing this on another forum board and the general consensus is that it feels as though the new rule is targeting home daycare providers and not ALL home care providers and/or similar situations or fields of work.
Here is the link we had to read the info from http://www.examiner.com/article/oreg...juana-or-a-job
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Country Kids 09:08 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
can you copy and post the letter please?
I received it in the mail and tech challenged. Not sure how to put it on the computor.

Let me see if I can find something on internet.
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Country Kids 09:12 AM 08-14-2014
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...oregon_st.html
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itlw8 09:36 AM 08-14-2014
ok I am from a more conservative state but no I do not think a provider should be using it while caring for children. AND yes I think it should be in the regulations then that a provider should not be using Vicodin and methadone while caring for children. .... It is still against federal law. Not until things like this are worked out will it ever be approved nation wide. Not saying it is true but news say that lots of the drs giving the card do not even know the patient and their need.
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Margarete 09:58 AM 08-14-2014
One of those above articles had this link....
http://hempzrebel.wix.com/abchildcare123
timeline and prospective from the childcare provider with M card.
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Laurel 10:06 AM 08-14-2014
This is gonna be interesting.

So then it can't be stored in the home even if it belongs to another family member. Then I wonder why alcohol or other narcotics or even guns can be stored in the home.

I'm interested to see where this one goes!

Laurel
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Blackcat31 10:09 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
This is gonna be interesting.

So then it can't be stored in the home even if it belongs to another family member. Then I wonder why alcohol or other narcotics or even guns can be stored in the home.

I'm interested to see where this one goes!

Laurel
I've been under the understanding that it's because right now there is no measureable way to know usage amounts and last used time frames....kwim?

Alcohol can be "measured" in those terms.
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Margarete 10:22 AM 08-14-2014
I would like to see the letter.

The news article states "It also bans use of smokeless tobacco and electronic cigarettes on the premises while children are present."

I'm assuming that means "day care children", and/or services are being provided, but it's not clear in the article.

I don't smoke or drink, but I don't think they should be able to ban a family child care provider with children from going in their front or backyard to have a cigarette, or regulate other legal activities when they are not providing services.
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MOM OF 4 11:59 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by itlw8:
ok I am from a more conservative state but no I do not think a provider should be using it while caring for children. AND yes I think it should be in the regulations then that a provider should not be using Vicodin and methadone while caring for children. .... It is still against federal law. Not until things like this are worked out will it ever be approved nation wide. Not saying it is true but news say that lots of the drs giving the card do not even know the patient and their need.
I don't see why we need these kind of regulations at all! It just shows that people are really lacking common sense. I would never use marijuana anyway, let alone while taking care of kids (or patients) or any other narcotic, alcohol, tobacco, etc...I mean it's just kind of obvious. Sad we have to make "rules" about it. lol
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crazydaycarelady 12:22 PM 08-14-2014
My state hasn't addressed this issue at all yet. If they said no smokeless tobacco I think it would be ridiculous. My hubby uses it.
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Laurel 12:37 PM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I've been under the understanding that it's because right now there is no measureable way to know usage amounts and last used time frames....kwim?

Alcohol can be "measured" in those terms.
I don't understand what you mean.

Laurel
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Laurel 12:40 PM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by MOM OF 4:
I don't see why we need these kind of regulations at all! It just shows that people are really lacking common sense. I would never use marijuana anyway, let alone while taking care of kids (or patients) or any other narcotic, alcohol, tobacco, etc...I mean it's just kind of obvious. Sad we have to make "rules" about it. lol
If pot is legal then it should be treated like any other legal drug such as alcohol. If one is drunk or high on prescription meds while watching children then there are consequences. I'm not sure why pot is any different.

Laurel
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Blackcat31 01:00 PM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
I don't understand what you mean.

Laurel
According to the articles I've read, there is no way to know if a person used marijuana 60 minutes or 24 hours prior to caring for children.

There is no way to "know" if the person is under the influence at x time like you can "know" is a person used alcohol at x time by using a breathalizer or administering a blood test.

Know what I mean?

So since there is no way to know WHEN use happened, it is easier to just not allow use at all IF a person wants to be a licensed caregiver.

That is not necessarily factual information. It's just what I've read so far.
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Laurel 06:07 PM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
According to the articles I've read, there is no way to know if a person used marijuana 60 minutes or 24 hours prior to caring for children.

There is no way to "know" if the person is under the influence at x time like you can "know" is a person used alcohol at x time by using a breathalizer or administering a blood test.

Know what I mean?

So since there is no way to know WHEN use happened, it is easier to just not allow use at all IF a person wants to be a licensed caregiver.

That is not necessarily factual information. It's just what I've read so far.
Okay thanks. I know what you mean now. Marijuana can be tested for but there are a lot of variables. It isn't practical. There is a urine and a mouth swab test for drugs as well.

The thing is that if you know someone is high you really can't tell if they smoked weed, took harder drugs, are drunk with alcohol or took too many or a combination of prescription meds. I think the deciding factor would be ARE they high not what they are high ON. I see singling out marijuana as not being allowed in the home, if it is legal, to be problematic in that way. The same way as saying you can't have alcohol in the home cause you might get drunk while watching children seems no different to me than saying you can't have marijuana cause you might get high while watching children.

Laurel
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NightOwl 08:19 PM 08-14-2014
Wow. This is a hard one. And probably will be hotly debated.
I'm all for natural medicines, marijuana included.
But I firmly believe that if you are taking a medication, no matter what form it's in, and it impairs your reflexes/judgment/alertness, etc., and you require this medication around the clock, then you shouldn't be in this business as a provider.
I don't mean to offend anyone who uses medical marijuana. It's an awesome, and sometimes the only, alternative to manufactured drugs.
But if I was a dc parent and knew my provider took medical marijuana or loricet or vicodin or anything that is a prescribed narcotic while my child was in her care, I'd be yanking my child out without a second thought.
I would feel that she likely isn't capable of adequately supervising my child, meeting the needs of my child, providing a safe environment for my child, etc.
The link to the website is very thorough in her documentation, but toward the end, it indicated that other people in the household were applying for and receiving M cards. This sounds fishy to me. One or two, maybe. But several adults? No, sounds like somebody just wants to get high.
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Unregistered 08:50 PM 08-14-2014
I am a registered provider in Oregon as well, and I think the whole thing is kinda ridiculous!*I mean, it doesn't state you can't just not use marijuana during childcare hours(which is completely understandable) but not be a MEDICAL marijuana card holder? You have to choose! Lots of people use for lots of different reasons, and just because you have a medical card doesn't mean you use it all day....But you can be prescribed Oxycotin, Methadone, or most any other medically prescribed drug and be a provider. Don't see what they are trying to achieve with this...Ill try to upload my letter...
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Wubby 08:51 PM 08-14-2014
Here are the new Regs.

(a) No person shall smoke or carry any lighted smoking instrument, including e-cigarettes in the family child care
home or within ten feet of any entrance, exit, window that opens or any ventilation intake that serves an enclosed
area, during child care hours or when child care children are present. No person shall use smokeless tobacco in the
family child care home during child care hours or when child care children are present. No person shall smoke, carry
any lighted smoking instrument, e-cigarettes or use smokeless tobacco in motor vehicles while child care children are
passengers.
(b) No one shall consume alcohol on the family child care home premises during child care hours or when child care
children are present. No one shall be under the influence of alcohol on the family child care home premises during
child care hours or when child care children are present.
(c) Notwithstanding OAR 414-205-0000(5), no one shall possess, use or store illegal controlled substances on the
family child care home premises. No one shall be under the influence of illegal controlled substances on the family
child care home premises.
(d) Notwithstanding OAR 414-205-0000(5), no one shall possess, use or store medical marijuana on the premises of
the family child care home. No one under the influence of medical marijuana shall be on the family child care home
premises.
(e) Notwithstanding OAR 414-205-0000(5), marijuana plants, derivatives and associated paraphernalia shall not be
kept on the family child care home premises.
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NightOwl 12:09 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by Wubby:
Here are the new Regs.

(a) No person shall smoke or carry any lighted smoking instrument, including e-cigarettes in the family child care
home or within ten feet of any entrance, exit, window that opens or any ventilation intake that serves an enclosed
area, during child care hours or when child care children are present. No person shall use smokeless tobacco in the
family child care home during child care hours or when child care children are present. No person shall smoke, carry
any lighted smoking instrument, e-cigarettes or use smokeless tobacco in motor vehicles while child care children are
passengers.
(b) No one shall consume alcohol on the family child care home premises during child care hours or when child care
children are present. No one shall be under the influence of alcohol on the family child care home premises during
child care hours or when child care children are present.
(c) Notwithstanding OAR 414-205-0000(5), no one shall possess, use or store illegal controlled substances on the
family child care home premises. No one shall be under the influence of illegal controlled substances on the family
child care home premises.
(d) Notwithstanding OAR 414-205-0000(5), no one shall possess, use or store medical marijuana on the premises of
the family child care home. No one under the influence of medical marijuana shall be on the family child care home
premises.
(e) Notwithstanding OAR 414-205-0000(5), marijuana plants, derivatives and associated paraphernalia shall not be
kept on the family child care home premises.
Idk about this. If you need medical marijuana and you are NOT under the influence while children are in your care, then it should be perfectly legal, the same as any other prescribed med. I understand they can't test for it with an accuracy of when it was consumed, but they can't do that either with say, loricet, either. It just shows up in your system with a drug test. The test doesn't indicate when it was actually put into your system. So why are they two things different?

No one should be under the influence of either while caring for children, but I don't see how they are denying people the right to "possess or store" it when they can "possess and store" loricet.
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TheGoodLife 03:45 AM 08-15-2014
When I read section d, stating noone under medical marihuana shall be on the premises- wouldn't that exclude DCFamilies as well? So that would exclude any parent from being on-site to drop-off, pick-up, correct?
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DaveA 04:36 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by TheGoodLife:
When I read section d, stating noone under medical marihuana shall be on the premises- wouldn't that exclude DCFamilies as well? So that would exclude any parent from being on-site to drop-off, pick-up, correct?
That's the way I read it.

I'm just not sure on this one. I can see both sides.
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Unregistered 05:22 AM 08-15-2014
http://www.stltoday.com/news/nationa...e5cfb5a63.html
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Blackcat31 05:22 AM 08-15-2014
I'm thinking that although marijuana can be used as pain relief it isn't categorized the same as some of the other pain relieving drugs that are allowable for use during care hours.

I think depending on what kind/type of drug a person is prescribed (opioids, stimulants etc) it defines whether or not they are "under the influence" and therefore dictates what they can and can't do.

Most of those types of drugs will state do not drive or operate heavy machinery etc during use.

Not all drugs have mind altering or sedation type affects, therefore their use during daycare or driving is allowed whereas others are not.

I suppose a person can drive just fine taking a prescription pain reliever such as codeine but can't do the same under the influence of marijuana so that may be where the discrepancy lies.

Which drugs can cause mind altering side effects and which ones have an affect only on the body but not the coherency of the person taking it...kwim?
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MOM OF 4 07:43 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
If pot is legal then it should be treated like any other legal drug such as alcohol. If one is drunk or high on prescription meds while watching children then there are consequences. I'm not sure why pot is any different.

Laurel
I agree! But why does it have to be written in a rule book to have providers understand it's a bad idea to use on the job? lol
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Country Kids 08:36 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by Wubby:
Here are the new Regs.

(a) No person shall smoke or carry any lighted smoking instrument, including e-cigarettes in the family child care
home or within ten feet of any entrance, exit, window that opens or any ventilation intake that serves an enclosed
area, during child care hours or when child care children are present. No person shall use smokeless tobacco in the
family child care home during child care hours or when child care children are present. No person shall smoke, carry
any lighted smoking instrument, e-cigarettes or use smokeless tobacco in motor vehicles while child care children are
passengers.
(b) No one shall consume alcohol on the family child care home premises during child care hours or when child care
children are present. No one shall be under the influence of alcohol on the family child care home premises during
child care hours or when child care children are present.
(c) Notwithstanding OAR 414-205-0000(5), no one shall possess, use or store illegal controlled substances on the
family child care home premises. No one shall be under the influence of illegal controlled substances on the family
child care home premises.
(d) Notwithstanding OAR 414-205-0000(5), no one shall possess, use or store medical marijuana on the premises of
the family child care home. No one under the influence of medical marijuana shall be on the family child care home
premises.
(e) Notwithstanding OAR 414-205-0000(5), marijuana plants, derivatives and associated paraphernalia shall not be
kept on the family child care home premises.
Thank you so so much for uploading these! I didn't even think of the regs just the letter we received-
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Country Kids 08:41 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by TheGoodLife:
When I read section d, stating noone under medical marihuana shall be on the premises- wouldn't that exclude DCFamilies as well? So that would exclude any parent from being on-site to drop-off, pick-up, correct?
Bingo! Thats exactly what I thought and my hubs and I had a discussion on this.

Probably though if they have been at work they aren't going to be under the influence of it.

Its going to be interesting when parents maybe aren't allowed to pick up/drop off. I think it will either be illegal again or something is going to have to happen to help us know if we can turn children over to the parents or not.
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Blackcat31 09:45 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Bingo! Thats exactly what I thought and my hubs and I had a discussion on this.

Probably though if they have been at work they aren't going to be under the influence of it.

Its going to be interesting when parents maybe aren't allowed to pick up/drop off. I think it will either be illegal again or something is going to have to happen to help us know if we can turn children over to the parents or not.
The article posted above says:

The rule allows others who live in the home but aren't licensed child-care providers to hold medical marijuana cards, but the drug can't ever be stored in the home. It also bans use of smokeless tobacco and electronic cigarettes on the premises while children are present.

Applicants for child-care licenses are not currently asked whether they have medical marijuana cards, so the state knows only about those who volunteer the information, state officials have said.

State child-care licensors will not be able to check whether child care providers have medical marijuana cards because state law restricts access to the Oregon Medical Marijuana Program database, said Cindy Hunt, a lawyer for the Department of Education, which oversees child care.


So I am thinking parents dropping off and picking up will be excluded from the law.

It also says there is no way to check up on this and that surrendering your card is voluntary as the state currently has no way to cross check who has one and who doesn't.
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rebekki78 08:55 AM 08-18-2014
I think it is only because, like someone else said, there is no way to be able to measure WHEN that said person took the drug. It remains in the system for long periods of time. So, if said provider took it at 7 pm after closing, it would still be in their system the next day. There is no way to prove that provider took drug while in hours not caring for children.

I have an ex-boyfriend (ten years ago now) who smoked it and drove home 4 hours later from his friends house. He then got pulled over on his way home, tested, and fined, along with his license taken away. Even though he wasn't technically "high" at the time he got pulled over (the effects hade worn off by then), there was no way to prove or disprove, so he got fined and ticketed.

Same goes for providers. If there was a way to prove or disprove when they used it, maybe the State would be more apt to allow it.

Just my thoughts though, it's possible that this has nothing to do with their decision as well.
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