2019 Attendance Record Hours or Hours of Operation?

[Cat Herder]

Q: In your Time/Space Calculations do you calculate based on *Attendance Records* hours or *Hours of Operation* hours?

I have always believed we were supposed to go by *Attendance Records* hours but don't feel I should be penalized if kids show up late. I was at work on time.

My husband does not lose time from his home office hours if no one calls or emails first thing in the morning, why should I? Valid question.

Thoughts?

[TomCopeland]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

Q: In your Time/Space Calculations do you calculate based on *Attendance Records* hours or *Hours of Operation* hours?

I have always believed we were supposed to go by *Attendance Records* hours but don't feel I should be penalized if kids show up late. I was at work on time.

My husband does not lose time from his home office hours if no one calls or emails first thing in the morning, why should I? Valid question.

Thoughts?

If you open at 7am and no child shows up before 6:30am, you can't count this half hour just because you are open. However, if you are doing some business activity during that time, you can count the half hour.

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by TomCopeland

If you open at 7am and no child shows up before 6:30am, you can't count this half hour just because you are open. However, if you are doing some business activity during that time, you can count the half hour.

Why? Where can I find this info?

[TomCopeland]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

Why? Where can I find this info?

There is no IRS publication that says you can or can't count an hour you are open but don't care for children. However, if you aren't caring for children you aren't using your home for your business (unless you are doing some business activity). Your home transfers back to being personal when children aren't present. Otherwise, a provider could say she's open 24 hours a day and claim 24 hours even though children are only there for 11 hours. If a providers was audited she won't win this argument.

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by TomCopeland

There is no IRS publication that says you can or can't count an hour you are open but don't care for children. However, if you aren't caring for children you aren't using your home for your business (unless you are doing some business activity). Your home transfers back to being personal when children aren't present. Otherwise, a provider could say she's open 24 hours a day and claim 24 hours even though children are only there for 11 hours. If a providers was audited she won't win this argument.

I wanted to make sure you knew I was not intending to argue with you. I truly do not understand why I lose hours when my husband, who also works from home, does not.

My business hours are only 10 hours per day (7:30-5:30). The problem is that during summer and school breaks my clients (teachers/one parent at home) would like to sleep in and drop the kids off sometime before lunch. I would lose around 4 hours per day of time/space hours during this time.

I considered being more flexible with my drop-off cut-off time (9:00) requirements for 2020, but this policy is one that helps keep my deductions in check. It all adds up. I guess I'll just stick to my current policy.

Thanks!!

[TomCopeland]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

I wanted to make sure you knew I was not intending to argue with you. I truly do not understand why I lose hours when my husband, who also works from home, does not.

My business hours are only 10 hours per day (7:30-5:30). The problem is that during summer and school breaks my clients (teachers/one parent at home) would like to sleep in and drop the kids off sometime before lunch. I would lose around 4 hours per day of time/space hours during this time.

I considered being more flexible with my drop-off cut-off time (9:00) requirements for 2020, but this policy is one that helps keep my deductions in check. It all adds up. I guess I'll just stick to my current policy.

Thanks!!

It's okay to argue with me! Although I didn't take what you said as an argument. It's always appropriate to ask me or your tax preparer or the IRS, "Where does it say that?"
If your husband is self employed and works at your home, he must have an office or other space that is exclusively used for his business. In that case, he doesn't count hours, because the room is never used personally.

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by TomCopeland

It's okay to argue with me! Although I didn't take what you said as an argument. It's always appropriate to ask me or your tax preparer or the IRS, "Where does it say that?"
If your husband is self employed and works at your home, he must have an office or other space that is exclusively used for his business. In that case, he doesn't count hours, because the room is never used personally.

That makes sense. By the same token, my daycare playroom is not used by my family, either. It is a converted garage set up in preschool centers with a children's handwashing sink and commercial changing station. Our kids are adults and living on their own. No grandkids for a while to come. I do use a couple other rooms and more space than he does.

I was trying to apply logic to government. I'll just cut that out, now. I used Kidkare, hit print and mailed everything off to my accountant this afternoon. Feels great to be done.

Thanks!!

[TomCopeland]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

That makes sense. By the same token, my daycare playroom is not used by my family, either. It is a converted garage set up in preschool centers with a children's handwashing sink and commercial changing station. Our kids are adults and living on their own. No grandkids for a while to come. I do use a couple other rooms and more space than he does.

I was trying to apply logic to government. I'll just cut that out, now. I used Kidkare, hit print and mailed everything off to my accountant this afternoon. Feels great to be done.

Thanks!!

It's a somewhat good analogy. When you have an exclusive use room it's considered business use, even if no one is in the room. But, if you are doing business activities in the room when children are not present you can count those hours.

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by TomCopeland

It's a somewhat good analogy. When you have an exclusive use room it's considered business use, even if no one is in the room. But, if you are doing business activities in the room when children are not present you can count those hours.

Thank you!!

[ConnieG]

I think if you open at 7:30 but kids don't dhow up till later that is still hours claimed. You could empty dishwasher, work on books, get crafts ready, clean house, vacuum, dust, laundry bids, bedding. On and on endless stuff!

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by ConnieG

I think if you open at 7:30 but kids don't dhow up till later that is still hours claimed. You could empty dishwasher, work on books, get crafts ready, clean house, vacuum, dust, laundry bids, bedding. On and on endless stuff!

Oh, how true that is. I actually start work at 5:30 each morning (up at 4:30) with meal prep, playground inspection, play center prep and lesson planning. I do this so my evenings are available exclusively for my husband.

I do worry about adding an extra 6 hours per day on the days they would like to show up late (11:30ish). I can't depend on them not changing their minds and showing up so I still need to prep and I don't want to give up deductions, either. I would already lose those breakfast/morning snack meal count write-offs. Even though I do work those hours daily and am not free to leave (I prefer outdoors), I feel it may be something that could get me flagged. YKWIM?

I really think keeping my drop-off cut-off may be the best route for me. I need my deductions to stay profitable and be able to continue working from home. I also like the routine of all the kids on the same schedule for the day.

[Julia2]

Great topic, how I deduct a space that is exclusively for business?, thank you

[Julia2]

I have a question, how do I prove that I am up at 5:30 am doing curriculum, food preparation, daycare inspection, daycare cleaning, etc; do I have to take pictures of me doing that or how?, thank you so much, I will open my daycare in a month probably, thank you for your help

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by Julia2

I have a question, how do I prove that I am up at 5:30 am doing curriculum, food preparation, daycare inspection, daycare cleaning, etc; do I have to take pictures of me doing that or how?, thank you so much, I will open my daycare in a month probably, thank you for your help

I use the KidKare program and record my hours weekly on Fridays. Click the accounting tab, then expenses, then time/space, then the tab "other hours". It is a little more complicated to figure out than the old program, but once you figure it out it flows pretty easily.

[Julia2]

Thank you, I will check kidcare

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Julia2

I have a question, how do I prove that I am up at 5:30 am doing curriculum, food preparation, daycare inspection, daycare cleaning, etc; do I have to take pictures of me doing that or how?, thank you so much, I will open my daycare in a month probably, thank you for your help

Add this link to your book marked sites.
It is a huge resource for anything child care business related.

http://tomcopelandblog.com/

[ConnieG]

I never thought about "proving" that we get up early to do things for daycare. Tax people have just always taken my written word. I use the Redleaf Press Calendar Keeper, because I am more a pencil and paper kind of book keeping person and it has all the best info needed printed ready to use.

[TomCopeland]

Originally Posted by Julia2

I have a question, how do I prove that I am up at 5:30 am doing curriculum, food preparation, daycare inspection, daycare cleaning, etc; do I have to take pictures of me doing that or how?, thank you so much, I will open my daycare in a month probably, thank you for your help

Track two months worth of these hours on a calendar or on KidKare. Then use the average for these two months for the rest of the year.

[YoderT]

I was resently hired as a DC director. They want me to work 60+ hours at the center and take all paperwork home. Plus teach a class and do everything else. I'm looking at 70+ hours per week. No benefits or perks. Thinking of not accepting. Haven't started yet. Any advise?

[YoderT]

Add on:
Also... these hours on a very small salary.

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by YoderT

I was resently hired as a DC director. They want me to work 60+ hours at the center and take all paperwork home. Plus teach a class and do everything else. I'm looking at 70+ hours per week. No benefits or perks. Thinking of not accepting. Haven't started yet. Any advise?

That is pretty common. That is why many of us end up just opening our own. We already have all the certs, training and experience.

[YoderT]

In not sure how I'm supposed to be both Teacher and Director of a large DC. Plus, I didn't hire on as a teacher, this was all a surprise to me last week as if I was down with it. Also, zero breaks! We have 30+ students and enrolling more bit she only wants to hire 3 people...Lol
Ugh!

[TomCopeland]

Originally Posted by YoderT

I was resently hired as a DC director. They want me to work 60+ hours at the center and take all paperwork home. Plus teach a class and do everything else. I'm looking at 70+ hours per week. No benefits or perks. Thinking of not accepting. Haven't started yet. Any advise?

A director is an exempt employee which means they are not required to pay you overtime pay. However, these are very long hours with no benefits. You should think twice about taking this job.

[Sunshine69]

Originally Posted by YoderT

I was resently hired as a DC director. They want me to work 60+ hours at the center and take all paperwork home. Plus teach a class and do everything else. I'm looking at 70+ hours per week. No benefits or perks. Thinking of not accepting. Haven't started yet. Any advise?

That seems more like doing in-home childcare without the tax benefits, or the benefit of being your own boss. If the salary isn’t a good one, I wouldn’t take it. Depends on your circumstances though.