Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>7 Month Old Non Napping, Help
gracepatiencelove 10:07 AM 04-14-2014
I've had this 7mo since they were 6 weeks. They will not nap for me. Part time (3 days/week). Mom admits to holding/nursing baby to sleep and then putting in swing. I'm about at my wits end. If I lay her down she screams until she's piled up then IMMEDIATELY stops. There are no to few tears. She eats well, plays ok (except the fact se is EXhAUSTED!!!).
Mom is a teacher so she will be off this summer. I want to he an action plan into place but I do NOT want to wait until AFTET summer sice ive already agreed to hold the spot all summer (I do have a sumer only baby) when I have people on a wait lost for fall. I feel like that'd be really unfair to me. But u have no idea how to phrase notice. I brought it up 1-2 times before and mom is always like "I don't know what to tell you."
Mom is a teacher so she will be off this summer. I want to he an action plan into place but I do NOT want to wait until AFTET summer sice ive already agreed to hold the spot all summer (I do have a sumer only baby) when I have people on a wait lost for fall. I feel like that'd be really unfair to me. But u have no idea how to phrase notice. I brought it up 1-2 times before and mom is always like "I don't know what to tell you."
jenboo 10:34 AM 04-14-2014
I would suggest have a behavior modification meeting. Have a paper that explains the behaviors that need to be changed and then have you and the parents fill in a section about what each of you are going to do to help change the behaviors. You can also print out some info/tips about getting a baby to self soothe. I would also include a section saying that if the behaviors are not corrected by a specific date then they will be terminated.
A lot of the time the parents won't fix the problems they have created unless they are given an ultimatum.
This is what i would do and hope that they stick around and fix the problem but i would also be prepared for them to terminate.
A lot of the time the parents won't fix the problems they have created unless they are given an ultimatum.
This is what i would do and hope that they stick around and fix the problem but i would also be prepared for them to terminate.
Heidi 11:03 AM 04-14-2014
Originally Posted by jenboo:
I would suggest have a behavior modification meeting. Have a paper that explains the behaviors that need to be changed and then have you and the parents fill in a section about what each of you are going to do to help change the behaviors. You can also print out some info/tips about getting a baby to self soothe. I would also include a section saying that if the behaviors are not corrected by a specific date then they will be terminated.
A lot of the time the parents won't fix the problems they have created unless they are given an ultimatum.
This is what i would do and hope that they stick around and fix the problem but i would also be prepared for them to terminate.
I would suggest have a behavior modification meeting. Have a paper that explains the behaviors that need to be changed and then have you and the parents fill in a section about what each of you are going to do to help change the behaviors. You can also print out some info/tips about getting a baby to self soothe. I would also include a section saying that if the behaviors are not corrected by a specific date then they will be terminated.
A lot of the time the parents won't fix the problems they have created unless they are given an ultimatum.
This is what i would do and hope that they stick around and fix the problem but i would also be prepared for them to terminate.
Please do not feel guilty about this. You could fix this problem, with some torture, if that child were full-time and not gone all summer.
The way it stands, only mom can fix it, and you can support it by doing the same thing there. That means, set up a routine, put her to bed, and walk away. She spits up, go in, clean her up, put her back in, walk away.
It does not even make financial sense to me to hold a spot open all summer for a kiddo that is only 3 days a week, especially with a wait list. YOU hold the cards here, lady. Use them!
gracepatiencelove 03:18 PM 04-14-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't think you can let him CIO out when he is under 6 months of age but I am not 100% sure.
I would require that the parents start teaching him how to nap properly. If they are just going to lay him on his back and not give any thoughts to how you can and can't do things at daycare, then I wouldn't keep him.
It is so important that parents understand that providers MUST follow certain ruls when it comes to infant/child safety and if they aren't going to partner up with you and work together to get through this then you only have two choices:
Sorry, I wish I was more help but really there aren't many other options for providers when parents are working in the opposite direction than you are.
I found this searching around and I think it sums up my options I don't think you can let him CIO out when he is under 6 months of age but I am not 100% sure.
I would require that the parents start teaching him how to nap properly. If they are just going to lay him on his back and not give any thoughts to how you can and can't do things at daycare, then I wouldn't keep him.
It is so important that parents understand that providers MUST follow certain ruls when it comes to infant/child safety and if they aren't going to partner up with you and work together to get through this then you only have two choices:
- Let baby cry/scream or
- Term him.
Sorry, I wish I was more help but really there aren't many other options for providers when parents are working in the opposite direction than you are.
gracepatiencelove 03:21 PM 04-14-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Please do not feel guilty about this. You could fix this problem, with some torture, if that child were full-time and not gone all summer.
The way it stands, only mom can fix it, and you can support it by doing the same thing there. That means, set up a routine, put her to bed, and walk away. She spits up, go in, clean her up, put her back in, walk away.
It does not even make financial sense to me to hold a spot open all summer for a kiddo that is only 3 days a week, especially with a wait list. YOU hold the cards here, lady. Use them!
Thanks!Please do not feel guilty about this. You could fix this problem, with some torture, if that child were full-time and not gone all summer.
The way it stands, only mom can fix it, and you can support it by doing the same thing there. That means, set up a routine, put her to bed, and walk away. She spits up, go in, clean her up, put her back in, walk away.
It does not even make financial sense to me to hold a spot open all summer for a kiddo that is only 3 days a week, especially with a wait list. YOU hold the cards here, lady. Use them!
They were my first family and I've let SO much go. I am going to do something... I have wanted to term for various reasons for 7montha but put up with it for one reason or another. This is just WAY too much. I admit I got pretty ticked wen it seemed like DCF weren't willing to help or change anything. It's seriously making my days 100X harder, SO gets annoyed by screaming 9hours a day, the kids are sick of it... I am tired of it
I feel like a bad provider!
Heidi 04:41 PM 04-14-2014
Originally Posted by gracepatiencelove:
Thanks!
They were my first family and I've let SO much go. I am going to do something... I have wanted to term for various reasons for 7montha but put up with it for one reason or another. This is just WAY too much. I admit I got pretty ticked wen it seemed like DCF weren't willing to help or change anything. It's seriously making my days 100X harder, SO gets annoyed by screaming 9hours a day, the kids are sick of it... I am tired of it I feel like a bad provider!
You are NOT bad provider or an unreasonable person. You are providing a service. It's called group care. You have not been hired to provide one-on-one care. Thanks!
They were my first family and I've let SO much go. I am going to do something... I have wanted to term for various reasons for 7montha but put up with it for one reason or another. This is just WAY too much. I admit I got pretty ticked wen it seemed like DCF weren't willing to help or change anything. It's seriously making my days 100X harder, SO gets annoyed by screaming 9hours a day, the kids are sick of it... I am tired of it
I feel like a bad provider!They are not horrible parents, either. But, they are not doing their child any favors by setting her up to be miserable. Of course, she'd rather be held and rocked to sleep. I'd rather eat ice cream every meal, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
She's miserable, you're miserable. It won't be any different in the fall.
Since there's only 6 or 7 weeks of school left (?), I'd just hang in there at this point, if you can. Mark each day on your calendar. Then, fill their spot, give them a call this summer; letting them know that you can't take her back, and return their deposit. Then, have a long, cool drink!
NightOwl 05:25 PM 04-14-2014
I would suggest moving her to a different room (nearby) for napping, try white noise like a running fan or rain sounds (bought a white noise machine at target for $25), and as the other ladies suggested, let her learn to self soothe. Lay her down, turn on the white noise, lower the lights, walk away. At least the screaming will be muffled since she's in an adjacent room and may not disturb the others as much. Btw,this is totally legal here in alabama to nap children in separate rooms.
If you still decide to term, use the "disturbance to other children" excuse so maybe she won't take it so personally. Explain that the others can't nap and the crier often causes a chain reaction of crying in the others (that's my experience anyway!) and it's just not going to work out. Give her plenty of notice and be done.
If you still decide to term, use the "disturbance to other children" excuse so maybe she won't take it so personally. Explain that the others can't nap and the crier often causes a chain reaction of crying in the others (that's my experience anyway!) and it's just not going to work out. Give her plenty of notice and be done.
gracepatiencelove 06:18 PM 04-14-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
I would suggest moving her to a different room (nearby) for napping, try white noise like a running fan or rain sounds (bought a white noise machine at target for $25), and as the other ladies suggested, let her learn to self soothe. Lay her down, turn on the white noise, lower the lights, walk away. At least the screaming will be muffled since she's in an adjacent room and may not disturb the others as much. Btw,this is totally legal here in alabama to nap children in separate rooms.
If you still decide to term, use the "disturbance to other children" excuse so maybe she won't take it so personally. Explain that the others can't nap and the crier often causes a chain reaction of crying in the others (that's my experience anyway!) and it's just not going to work out. Give her plenty of notice and be done.
Right now we all sit (on eggshells mind you) two rooms Way doing something quiet. I have lullabies on because she would fight to be heard over te whte noise I would suggest moving her to a different room (nearby) for napping, try white noise like a running fan or rain sounds (bought a white noise machine at target for $25), and as the other ladies suggested, let her learn to self soothe. Lay her down, turn on the white noise, lower the lights, walk away. At least the screaming will be muffled since she's in an adjacent room and may not disturb the others as much. Btw,this is totally legal here in alabama to nap children in separate rooms.
If you still decide to term, use the "disturbance to other children" excuse so maybe she won't take it so personally. Explain that the others can't nap and the crier often causes a chain reaction of crying in the others (that's my experience anyway!) and it's just not going to work out. Give her plenty of notice and be done.
See, it's een getting progressively worse. Mondays are heck. Wednesdays she kinda gets it. Fridays go very well. Then Monday and its all over again. I let her cry (going in every 5-15 minutes depending on how much she's crying and of she's close to fallig asleep to pat her belly and shush her) and she just keeps crying. Today she was up at like 6am and I tried ALL day to get her to nap. She napped 30 minutes at 1pm.
I will definitely be citing the disturbance thing.... Ugh. I just don't want to have to do this but I'm over it already at the same time. I've made up my mind to do it a dozen times and I think mom sense it and becomes really nice and I feel bad..
gracepatiencelove 06:18 PM 04-14-2014
Thank you guys!!!
cheerfuldom 08:38 PM 04-14-2014
Definitely term. There is a reason why the vast majority of providers here do not take part time infants. What you are experiencing is incredibly common for part time babies. It wont get easier in the fall either with her having the summer off.
TwinKristi 10:10 PM 04-14-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
Definitely term. There is a reason why the vast majority of providers here do not take part time infants. What you are experiencing is incredibly common for part time babies. It wont get easier in the fall either with her having the summer off.
I think this would be the kicker for me. Even if you hung in there and got through this plus saved her spot all summer, she's just going to come back older, more stubborn and more set in her mom's ways!! It's going to be even harder to get her back on track and especially 3 days a week. I have an almost 2yr old here only 2 days a week and I wasn't sure the first 2 weeks if this would work when he didn't nap well and just wanted to play outside the whole time (it's still cold at 8:30am) but now he's a great kid, naps well and fits right in within 3wks.Definitely term. There is a reason why the vast majority of providers here do not take part time infants. What you are experiencing is incredibly common for part time babies. It wont get easier in the fall either with her having the summer off.
gracepatiencelove 07:41 PM 04-15-2014
So I discussed the issues with mom and said we need toget this figured out now or you need to start looking elsewhere (Do you hear that? It's my backbone peeping through the bullcrap fertilizer!). They want baby bottle propped in a swing. In my view. Ugh. I tried to nicely say, "that ain't gonna fly." I probably said ten times it's dangerous to let her nap in a swing (I am envisioning strangulation in straps, falling out (my own ds rolled out at 4.5 mos scariest thing eer!)).
Okay so... Suggestions? I brought up going full time. Idk. Ugh.
Okay so... Suggestions? I brought up going full time. Idk. Ugh.
gracepatiencelove 07:45 PM 04-15-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I think this would be the kicker for me. Even if you hung in there and got through this plus saved her spot all summer, she's just going to come back older, more stubborn and more set in her mom's ways!! It's going to be even harder to get her back on track and especially 3 days a week. I have an almost 2yr old here only 2 days a week and I wasn't sure the first 2 weeks if this would work when he didn't nap well and just wanted to play outside the whole time (it's still cold at 8:30am) but now he's a great kid, naps well and fits right in within 3wks.
So you do not think mom will help sleep train baby over summer? I mean, eventually they gotta learn. I don't want to get stuck with baby until December just so the kid has an adjustment period. I also KNOW yet will leave once she is 2 so it's like... I can see roughing it out for a long term client but this is not that. I think this would be the kicker for me. Even if you hung in there and got through this plus saved her spot all summer, she's just going to come back older, more stubborn and more set in her mom's ways!! It's going to be even harder to get her back on track and especially 3 days a week. I have an almost 2yr old here only 2 days a week and I wasn't sure the first 2 weeks if this would work when he didn't nap well and just wanted to play outside the whole time (it's still cold at 8:30am) but now he's a great kid, naps well and fits right in within 3wks.
I'm glad yours adjusted!
Heidi 05:04 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by gracepatiencelove:
So you do not think mom will help sleep train baby over summer? I mean, eventually they gotta learn. I don't want to get stuck with baby until December just so the kid has an adjustment period. I also KNOW yet will leave once she is 2 so it's like... I can see roughing it out for a long term client but this is not that.
I'm glad yours adjusted!
Grace, just term..So you do not think mom will help sleep train baby over summer? I mean, eventually they gotta learn. I don't want to get stuck with baby until December just so the kid has an adjustment period. I also KNOW yet will leave once she is 2 so it's like... I can see roughing it out for a long term client but this is not that.
I'm glad yours adjusted!
Keep her till the end of the semester if you can stand it, but like I said the other day, fill her spot, and don't take her back in the fall.
Is mom going to sleep train her? She's full of excuses and ways around it. That child will be sleeping with her parents soon, because that'll "the only way" they can get her to sleep. I'd bet money on that. Put yourself out of your misery, lady!
gracepatiencelove 05:09 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I think this would be the kicker for me. Even if you hung in there and got through this plus saved her spot all summer, she's just going to come back older, more stubborn and more set in her mom's ways!! It's going to be even harder to get her back on track and especially 3 days a week. I have an almost 2yr old here only 2 days a week and I wasn't sure the first 2 weeks if this would work when he didn't nap well and just wanted to play outside the whole time (it's still cold at 8:30am) but now he's a great kid, naps well and fits right in within 3wks.
I think this would be the kicker for me. Even if you hung in there and got through this plus saved her spot all summer, she's just going to come back older, more stubborn and more set in her mom's ways!! It's going to be even harder to get her back on track and especially 3 days a week. I have an almost 2yr old here only 2 days a week and I wasn't sure the first 2 weeks if this would work when he didn't nap well and just wanted to play outside the whole time (it's still cold at 8:30am) but now he's a great kid, naps well and fits right in within 3wks.
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Grace, just term..
Keep her till the end of the semester if you can stand it, but like I said the other day, fill her spot, and don't take her back in the fall.
Is mom going to sleep train her? She's full of excuses and ways around it. That child will be sleeping with her parents soon, because that'll "the only way" they can get her to sleep. I'd bet money on that. Put yourself out of your misery, lady!
I have never termed anyone Grace, just term..
Keep her till the end of the semester if you can stand it, but like I said the other day, fill her spot, and don't take her back in the fall.
Is mom going to sleep train her? She's full of excuses and ways around it. That child will be sleeping with her parents soon, because that'll "the only way" they can get her to sleep. I'd bet money on that. Put yourself out of your misery, lady!
ops: I have practiced what to say a million times but I just don't know HOW to do it. If I hand her am envelop, she would just open it in front of me... But thinking about it - about not having to deal with this (and some of the other crap that's happened with this family is INSANE) - is a positive experience. Interesting. I think I will finish out the school year, though.
Heidi 05:49 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by gracepatiencelove:
I have never termed anyoneops: I have practiced what to say a million times but I just don't know HOW to do it. If I hand her am envelop, she would just open it in front of me... But thinking about it - about not having to deal with this (and some of the other crap that's happened with this family is INSANE) - is a positive experience. Interesting. I think I will finish out the school year, though.
In that case, make it easier on yourself. I had the same situation last year.I have never termed anyone
ops: I have practiced what to say a million times but I just don't know HOW to do it. If I hand her am envelop, she would just open it in front of me... But thinking about it - about not having to deal with this (and some of the other crap that's happened with this family is INSANE) - is a positive experience. Interesting. I think I will finish out the school year, though.Just muddle through the next few weeks. Then, a few weeks into summer break, give her a call, and let her know. "You know, I adore dcg, but I just don't think my program is a good fit for her. I just wanted to talk with you personally, and let you know that I've sent you a letter and your deposit back".
If she tries to argue, makes you feel guilty, or whatever, just say "there's really nothing I can say to make this easier for you, so I think we just need to leave it at that. Best wishes to your family...bye"
Next one will probably be in person, but the phone will make it easier the first time.
cheerfuldom 06:24 AM 04-16-2014
Term. Mom is saying by her actions that she has no interest in solving the issue. Sleeping in a swing or propped position is very dangerous....google positional asphyxiation, as is feeding with a propped bottle, PLUS these are all temporary bandaids on the issue! Do you really think you are going to prop bottles and have a baby in a swing forever? More than likely by fall, this child will be over the weight limit on many baby swings anyway and maybe on sippy cups at which point, I am sure mom will have an equally ridiculous and unsafe way to get baby to sleep. This is not working. Write up a term notice to end care at the end of the semester. Give it to them that last day and let them know you wont be able to provide care in the fall. You dont have to give any notice because they have all summer to find new care. So when they walk out the door, you dont have to see them again. till then, just do whatever it takes to get through the day with this child.
gracepatiencelove 07:38 AM 04-23-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
Term. Mom is saying by her actions that she has no interest in solving the issue. Sleeping in a swing or propped position is very dangerous....google positional asphyxiation, as is feeding with a propped bottle, PLUS these are all temporary bandaids on the issue! Do you really think you are going to prop bottles and have a baby in a swing forever? More than likely by fall, this child will be over the weight limit on many baby swings anyway and maybe on sippy cups at which point, I am sure mom will have an equally ridiculous and unsafe way to get baby to sleep. This is not working. Write up a term notice to end care at the end of the semester. Give it to them that last day and let them know you wont be able to provide care in the fall. You dont have to give any notice because they have all summer to find new care. So when they walk out the door, you dont have to see them again. till then, just do whatever it takes to get through the day with this child.
I am 99% sure I am going to term over the summer. I talk myself out of it and then I have a day with this kid. Ugh. 15 min AM nap.Term. Mom is saying by her actions that she has no interest in solving the issue. Sleeping in a swing or propped position is very dangerous....google positional asphyxiation, as is feeding with a propped bottle, PLUS these are all temporary bandaids on the issue! Do you really think you are going to prop bottles and have a baby in a swing forever? More than likely by fall, this child will be over the weight limit on many baby swings anyway and maybe on sippy cups at which point, I am sure mom will have an equally ridiculous and unsafe way to get baby to sleep. This is not working. Write up a term notice to end care at the end of the semester. Give it to them that last day and let them know you wont be able to provide care in the fall. You dont have to give any notice because they have all summer to find new care. So when they walk out the door, you dont have to see them again. till then, just do whatever it takes to get through the day with this child.
I am getting from mom "we moved into pack and play, she naps fine there for us, I don't know what's wrong" (implied, "with you or your care" IMO). I am trying SO HARD not to take it personally but NO WAY is this kid going down ok for naps at home and not here. It just does NOT make sense to me that this would happen this way. Does anyone have any insight? I don't get the feeling that this mom would lie to me. I just have a feeling her idea of down to nap in a PnP and mine are different... I wouldn't be surprised if she was feeding/rocking/walking to sleep then laying down. She did admit baby wakes up after like ten minutes.
I am just telling myself, it's not that much more time since she is PT.
But ugh. I am sick, was up all night sick myself and with my sick kids... I just do not want to deal with rocking baby for two hours so she'll actually nap 
Heidi 07:42 AM 04-23-2014
Originally Posted by gracepatiencelove:
I am 99% sure I am going to term over the summer. I talk myself out of it and then I have a day with this kid. Ugh. 15 min AM nap.
I am getting from mom "we moved into pack and play, she naps fine there for us, I don't know what's wrong" (implied, "with you or your care" IMO). I am trying SO HARD not to take it personally but NO WAY is this kid going down ok for naps at home and not here. It just does NOT make sense to me that this would happen this way. Does anyone have any insight? I don't get the feeling that this mom would lie to me. I just have a feeling her idea of down to nap in a PnP and mine are different... I wouldn't be surprised if she was feeding/rocking/walking to sleep then laying down. She did admit baby wakes up after like ten minutes.
I am just telling myself, it's not that much more time since she is PT. But ugh. I am sick, was up all night sick myself and with my sick kids... I just do not want to deal with rocking baby for two hours so she'll actually nap
Good luck today. Hang in there!I am 99% sure I am going to term over the summer. I talk myself out of it and then I have a day with this kid. Ugh. 15 min AM nap.
I am getting from mom "we moved into pack and play, she naps fine there for us, I don't know what's wrong" (implied, "with you or your care" IMO). I am trying SO HARD not to take it personally but NO WAY is this kid going down ok for naps at home and not here. It just does NOT make sense to me that this would happen this way. Does anyone have any insight? I don't get the feeling that this mom would lie to me. I just have a feeling her idea of down to nap in a PnP and mine are different... I wouldn't be surprised if she was feeding/rocking/walking to sleep then laying down. She did admit baby wakes up after like ten minutes.
I am just telling myself, it's not that much more time since she is PT.
But ugh. I am sick, was up all night sick myself and with my sick kids... I just do not want to deal with rocking baby for two hours so she'll actually nap 
eww...now I got your sick germs..
gracepatiencelove 11:47 AM 04-23-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Good luck today. Hang in there! eww...now I got your sick germs..
you do NOT want them haha. soapy soapy, wash your hands!Good luck today. Hang in there!
eww...now I got your sick germs..
gracepatiencelove 11:48 AM 04-23-2014
So this infant has been here since around 745... slept for 15 minutes. My own 3yo puked everywhere, got bad news, and my head feels like it MIGHT explode. Ohhh my gosh, baby, just sleep!!
Heidi 12:14 PM 04-23-2014
Originally Posted by gracepatiencelove:
So this infant has been here since around 745... slept for 15 minutes. My own 3yo puked everywhere, got bad news, and my head feels like it MIGHT explode. Ohhh my gosh, baby, just sleep!!
honestly, I think I'd just tell mom today that she needs to make some other arrangements for the rest of the semester. So this infant has been here since around 745... slept for 15 minutes. My own 3yo puked everywhere, got bad news, and my head feels like it MIGHT explode. Ohhh my gosh, baby, just sleep!!
Also...give yourself a break. If she's crying, she's breathing. Let her cry and take your break! oh...white noise. bathroom fan, range hood, box fan, lullaby music, dishwasher, tv on "snow". A pair of headphones on your computer playing Enya.