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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Taking Responsibility of Children
mac60 05:20 AM 10-19-2009
I was talking to my sister this weekend. She works as an aide in our elementary school, grades 2 and 3. Every year over and over, we have the same conversation. Parents being uncaring, irresponsible to their children. Her latest example was the field trip that they went on last week to the woods. she told me how she had put on tights under her jeans, two pair of socks, taken gloves, wore a long sleeved shirt, sweatshirt, and then a over the head windbreaker, on then put on her coat. It was cold, they were going to the woods, it was damp. Then she told me of a little boy who was sent to school by his parents, for a field trip to the woods, with the temps in the morning in the lower 30's, with no socks, no sweatshirt, no gloves, no hat, no coat, nothing but a short sleeve tee shirt and a windbreaker. Hmm, my sister of coarse, took off one pair of her socks to give to the little boy, took off her sweatshirt to give to the little boy, gave her gloves to another child that asked her for some. May I ask where is the state licensing agency when it comes to these little kids that are sent to school inappropriately dressed. Last year, she told me of a little girl grade 2 or 3, that was dropped off at school over 1 hour early, with the temps in the negative numbers, with crocs on and no socks. Imagine how that poor child had to have felt. When my sister realized that she had been standing there (my sister does the bussing and arrives earlier than most) and found she had on no socks, my sister immediately took her inside, found socks for her, and took care of the situation. These types of stories go on and on each and everyday at our elementary schools.

Where is the governing licensing agencies in these situations. Where is the advocates for these children. Why arn't the parents being reprimanded for the absolute inexcuseable way they are treating their children.

I guess my point is, I will use me an an example, I am a childcare provider, I am not licensed, as we do not have to be in my state. I have never allowed a child to leave my home in the cold winter without hat and mittens, shoes and socks, with out having a nutritious breakfast, they get a nutritious lunch, snacks, a clean homey environment, I have given a child a lunch for a field trip because mom forgot, I have sent them kleenex to school because mom didn't, I have given them lunch money because mom didn't, I could go on and on. It just infuriates me that some think that "I need to be licensed" to provide good care. Baloney. As a provider, I go above and beyond what is/should be expected of a provider. I treat each and every child as if they were my own. I don't feel that I need some governing agency to tell me how to do my job. I don't feel I need a piece of paper that states I met certain guidelines to be a provider. Don't question those that go above and beyond to be providers and advocates for children, the state licensing needs to go to those people who abuse their children, and I am not talking physical abuse, although in my mind standing in below zero temperatures with no socks in crocs to me is a form of physical abuse, I am talking not even meeting the physical needs of someones child.

As far as some of these children, yes, the parents are called by the school, probably reported to the state, but next week comes, and it is the same old sad story for these little kids. No sock, no coats, no gloves, etc. Licensing needs to concentrate on these kids, instead of trying to ruin the lives of providers who have opened their homes and their hearts, are caring human beings, who are the advocates of children.

I guess too that when you live in a state that you are required to be licensed, some tend to hold it against those of us that are not required and automatically assume that "we" are not qualified, that simply is not the case. My nephews little boy went to a provider that was certified for child care subsidies, and his little boy slept on the kitchen floor every night till midnight at pickup, didn't take long for them to move him. There are good in both, there are bad in both. But when I have several parents coming in and out of my home each day throughout the day, they are my governing agency, and they should have the right to take their child to any provider they choose.
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Former Teacher 05:56 AM 10-19-2009
I agree with your post Mac. It is a shame that sometimes providers take better care of the children in care than their parents do. On a personal note, that's why it makes me angry that there are parents out there who just throw their children aside like that, while there are parent wannabes (like me and my husband) that would give their eye teeth to have a child.

As for the parents, there is a thing I learned over the years in childcare. The parents figure, heck if I don't do it, at least so and so will. You mentioned lunch money. I can't begin to tell you about the times when we would go on field trips and parents "forgot" to bring their child's lunch. They knew we would make the child a lunch. As I have mentioned before, my former boss was a sucker for sob stories, so she would do it. It took ONE field trip where there were 15 kids and 9, yes 9, didn't bring their lunch. She made lunches for EVERY SINGLE ONE. I thought that was ridiculous. The following week same thing happened (not as many), finally I started to tell the parent who didn't bring a lunch that day, they couldn't go on the trip. They all went back and got a lunchable or something else to eat. It just shows that again, hey if I don't do, providers will.

There was a boy who was a drop in. He was being potty trained so every time he came in he brought in a new BIG package of pull ups. I mean this boy was here maybe once every 2 weeks, if even that. Well I had another boy who was 3 and not potty trained yet but was supposedly being trained at home. He was still in diapers. Father shows me a plastic bag and told me that there were enough diapers for the week. Being young, (I was only 17) I believed him and I didn't check. I went to his cubby and I took the bag and there were 2 (!!) diapers.

I started to have to use this dropin's pull ups. This father didn't feel he should bring anymore diapers because we had pull ups for him. I tried to tell him that I was borrowing from another child and he had to replace them. Again being so young, I don't think he took me seriously. It got to the point where I had to hide the 2 for the week and I shamefully admit sometimes, not all, but sometimes, I let him go home in a heavy pull up just so the father could see.

Of course I didn't get any help from the staff at the center at that time (thats another post! ) I explained to my Assistant Director what was going on and how 2 diapers wasn't going to last the day more or less the week. Her response? Well you should be potting training him, it will last you. The nerve!

Anyway, the point of my story is that this father KNEW his son was being taken care of and probably felt no reason to supply the diapers anymore than he had to because we would.

I also remember this mother who would NEVER bring fruit for her daughters cereal. So once again, I was told from the director to borrow from someone else. There was a day when I told the director I can't because the other children wouldn't have fruit for themselves for that day. She told me "oh well, she will have to do without, just feed her without". The baby screamed and cried because she didn't want it. She didn't eat the cereal. She waited until lunch to eat. It was at that moment, that I trained the babies in my care to eat cereal without fruit. My director stopped me one day and I said I was doing it wrong, I HAD to put fruit in the cereal because the cereal is otherwise tasteless. I said oh ok..I never did. Of course I would always give the fruit afterwards but never again in the cereal.

I am sorry this post is so long haha. But when I get on a roll, I get on a roll!!! Hey I have got 18 years worth of this. Maybe I should write a book!
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momof3 12:24 PM 10-19-2009
To MAC60: I have seen many of your posts on this website, and quite honestly, from what I read, I would never have guessed you are "unlicensed". You are professional and genuinely care about the kids. (I am not saying that unlicensed providers aren't professional...before I get yelled at). I have a friend in my state who does unlicensed daycare (not allowed here.) However, I have referred many a parent to her. She takes wonderful care of the kids, and I would leave my own children with her over 95% of the licensed people around here. I wish our state wasn't licensed, and I have thought about letting my license go, but still do daycare. The state and our country can hardly run itself, nevermind trying to govern what people are doing in their own homes. I agree 100% with you...the parents should be my governing agency, and if they are unhappy, then they can choose to go elsewhere. My so called "licensing specialist" doesn't even know what the regulations are. Here's a quick story. I had company about a year ago, over the weekend. They brought bottles of wine with them. We do not drink wine, and when they left, there was a bottle left in plain view on my kitchen countertop. That Monday, my "licensing specialist" came in for one of the yearly "surprise" visits. Everything went well, I am always in compliance with the regualtions, except one of the questions, they always ask is: "Is there any alcolhol or guns on the premises"? I told her no. She finished her paperwork and left. As I turn around and come back into the kitchen after walking her out, I see the bottle of wine, clear as day, on my counter. I forgot it was there. These people are supposed to be trained to look for things. She sat at my kitchen table, facing the counter, and never noticed it. Although it shouldn't have been there, and I did dispose of it at that point, she should have seen it. She should be looking for things. I have absolutely no respect or confidence in the agency that licences us. MAC60...I am glad your state doesn't require it, I wish our state didn't either. I think it's just another way for the govt to be in our business...and we all know how well they do their jobs.
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seashell 02:03 PM 10-19-2009
[quote= I have absolutely no respect or confidence in the agency that licences us. MAC60...I am glad your state doesn't require it, I wish our state didn't either. I think it's just another way for the govt to be in our business...and we all know how well they do their jobs.[/QUOTE]

Amen!

Being with a "licensed " and "regulated" provider doesn't mean safe and loving. It creates blind faith in the parents because "THE STATE" will make sure the provider does their job. LOL! Licensing is a joke. Parents need to take responsibility and assess the provider and the enviroment themselves. The state won't do it.
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Tiffer 06:03 AM 10-20-2009
Well, please. I see some of the people that our state 'licenses' to have foster kids. It's so obvious that they are doing it for the boost in income and benefits. Any schmoe can get licensed for anything - even really incompetent people can become doctors.

One thing I hate seeing at daycare when I drop off my son is sandals on any of the kids. These are toddlers, they are learning to walk. Sandals, crocs, etc. are not good footwear for them. Toddlers, and even children up to 10 I would say need to be wearing mostly sturdy shoes that are tied or strapped on, and socks. Even sandals that go around the ankle are Ok with socks, but you see these kids in flip flops falling all over the place.

My poor sister, though - she watches 2 little girls a few days a week in her home. Their Mom drops them off barely dressed for the weather. They go to sleep at 11pm at night, so they're always cranky or tired. The toddler brings her own breakfast, a candy bar, gummy worms, etc. The baby has a flat head and cries if my sister holds her too much because she is used to being in her car seat. Nothing bad enough to report, but good lord, the woman is fairly wealthy and successful. Not like she's not well educated, but thinks this treatment is OK for her kids.

I think the main problem is, too many people are worried about how the outside world perceives their kids, so they go to great lengths to dress them up cute and buy nice strollers and car seats and stuff. My son runs around in second hand clothes or hand me downs, but I don't feed him a steady diet of junk and McDonalds because it's convenient, and I don't schlep him off on babysitters every weekend night, and I don't keep him up late because I want to watch a show and I don't plop him in front of the TV because I don't want to deal with him. If you don't want to invest the time and care into a child, don't have one. Jeez!
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Chickenhauler 09:48 PM 10-20-2009
Who is checking on these parents? Nobody is going to check on them unless someone mentions it to social services. If nobody brings it up, nobody is going to do anything about it.

A person who sees this, and does nothing to correct it is just as guilty of child neglect as the parent, IMHO.

Honestly, I think the standard for reproducing is too low.

You have to have a license to have a car, another to drive it, one to have a dog (in many jurisdictions), to build a residence, to open a business, etc etc.

Shouldn't we make the bar for raising the next generation at least as hard to clear as that of cutting hair?
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mac60 02:54 AM 10-21-2009
The irresponsible parents I was talking about with the children at the schools. They are called out by the principal and the teachers, and have been reported to social services, and it continues to happen, and the morons keep having more kids.

As far as finding care for our own children, they are not commodities, they are our flesh and blood. I as a parent, should have the right to take my child to any person I feel is qualified to care for my child, licensed or unlicensed, without the gov't telling me, how, what, when and everything else. It is my child and I should get to make the calls as to who will provide care while I work. If my best friend offers to watch my child, and is unlicensed in a state that requires licensing.....why does the government have the right to tell me my best friend can't watch my child. they don't have that right imo.
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GretasLittleFriends 07:05 AM 10-21-2009
Originally Posted by mac60:
As far as finding care for our own children, they are not commodities, they are our flesh and blood. I as a parent, should have the right to take my child to any person I feel is qualified to care for my child, licensed or unlicensed, without the gov't telling me, how, what, when and everything else. It is my child and I should get to make the calls as to who will provide care while I work. If my best friend offers to watch my child, and is unlicensed in a state that requires licensing.....why does the government have the right to tell me my best friend can't watch my child. they don't have that right imo.
I agree if you have a friend/family whom you trust to take care of your child to help save you a few $$s you should have that right. Personally if it were me I'd want to be sure that my friend/family knew a few basic things like emergency response (first aid & cpr for the age of my child). At the same time you're talking about one person taking care of a child or two, perhaps 3 or 4 if he/she has their own. I would be concerned if said individual was caring for 10 children all under the age of 3 (for example). Not sounding safe or very good care for all 10 of those children. Yes as a parent it is my choice to not bring my own child to that place with 10 children for care, yet at the same time all children need to be properly cared for. I believe that is the goal of the government (to see that the children get the proper care required.)
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Chickenhauler 01:05 AM 10-22-2009
Originally Posted by mac60:
As far as finding care for our own children, they are not commodities, they are our flesh and blood. I as a parent, should have the right to take my child to any person I feel is qualified to care for my child, licensed or unlicensed, without the gov't telling me, how, what, when and everything else. It is my child and I should get to make the calls as to who will provide care while I work. If my best friend offers to watch my child, and is unlicensed in a state that requires licensing.....why does the government have the right to tell me my best friend can't watch my child. they don't have that right imo.
I see where you're going with this.....are you ready to be fully, 100% responsible for your child? You sure?

OK....don't ask for a crossing guard after school, don't come complaining when your kid gets injured, hurt or abused at your choice of caregiver, and don't ever ask for any public assistance of any kind, be it food, medical, or child care assistance-it's your child, after all, not the government's.

Don't go looking to the government for education either....this includes not only K-12, but when it comes college time, don't even think of inquiring about grants, scholarships, the GI Bill, or a gov't backed student loan program. It's your child, after all.

But, when you do enroll your child in public education, don't complain when you kid gets sick because their classmates were not properly innoculated......those kids that are "typhoid mary's" are not the gov't's, their parents get to make the decisions.


Like I said in another thread-remove all the standards for child care, and let me know how long you're still in business....without some kind of bar that must be cleared, you'll have non-english speaking illegal immigrants watching 40 kids per adult so fast it'll make your head spin.

If you don't believe that, all you have to do is look at a school bus for proof of our "most precious natural resource".....I have to wear a seatbelt in my car, my semi, wear a helmet on my motorcycle (in some states), but school buses don't have seat belts.
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seashell 10:25 AM 10-22-2009
Originally Posted by Chickenhauler:
I see where you're going with this.....are you ready to be fully, 100% responsible for your child? You sure?

OK....don't ask for a crossing guard after school, don't come complaining when your kid gets injured, hurt or abused at your choice of caregiver, and don't ever ask for any public assistance of any kind, be it food, medical, or child care assistance-it's your child, after all, not the government's.

Don't go looking to the government for education either....this includes not only K-12, but when it comes college time, don't even think of inquiring about grants, scholarships, the GI Bill, or a gov't backed student loan program. It's your child, after all.

But, when you do enroll your child in public education, don't complain when you kid gets sick because their classmates were not properly innoculated......those kids that are "typhoid mary's" are not the gov't's, their parents get to make the decisions.


Like I said in another thread-remove all the standards for child care, and let me know how long you're still in business....without some kind of bar that must be cleared, you'll have non-english speaking illegal immigrants watching 40 kids per adult so fast it'll make your head spin.

If you don't believe that, all you have to do is look at a school bus for proof of our "most precious natural resource".....I have to wear a seatbelt in my car, my semi, wear a helmet on my motorcycle (in some states), but school buses don't have seat belts.
I think your missing the point here. The idea is that childcare is a personal choice made by the parent. Are you saying that my sister can't babysit my kids on the weekend in her house because she isn't licensed or that I can't let my daughter play at a friends house after school because her parents arn't licensed?

Having a license doesn't ensure quality. I doesn't mean a child won't be abused or be injured. And not having a license doesn't mean that the child will be abused or get hurt. Quality is in the provider, not a piece of paper.

Welfare? Seriously? What does this have to do with the topic? But if you really must, welfare is also a choice. I can go on welfare or not. It's a personal choice. Just as choosing a licensed or unlicensed caregiver is a personal choice.

Immunizations? I choose to get my children immunized so they don't get "Mary's" disease. Isn't that the point of getting the shots? To keep the child from getting ill?

40 kids being watched by an immigrant? Again, if the parent wants that for their child, it's their decision.

And seat belts on the bus? I agree, they should be there. But I know they arn't on the bus and it's my decision to put that child on the bus or drive them to school.

Parents arn't stupid. They know what they are getting into when they send their child out the door each day wether it's to an unlicensed daycare, public school or the school bus. They know the risks and the rewards. But it's their choice. This world isn't perfect and goverment involvement sure won't make it that way. The government doesn't know me or my child. So why should they be making choices for us?

I am proud to say I am an unlicensed provider. I believe my parents are capable of thinking for themselves and that daycare is a private arrangement between intelligent adults. Our country is in the mess it's in right now because of too much government. We are not cattle to be hearded by politicians. We are perfectly capable of making decisions for our children.

I usually agree with your posts and I respect your opinion. But I honestly disagree with you here and think your mixing apples and oranges.
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