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Old 12-09-2020, 09:47 PM
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Default Provider Broke Contract But Still Wants 2 Week Notice

Our daycare provider is licensed as a family group home which max capacity is 12 children. Last week when picking up our boys there were 16 children in the home(this is not the first time i have noticed she was over the limit). We have not taken our boys back since. Today we told her we would not be bringing the boys back and she referenced the contract we signed upon enrolling them of the 2 week notice, and we we had to either bring the boys for 2 weeks and pay her, or just pay her. I feel as if she broke that contract the moment she broke the law in having too many kids. Am i still obligated to pay her? Any advice is welcome. We are located in Michigan if that helps any one.
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Old 12-09-2020, 11:18 PM
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Default need advice from providers, or your opinion

Our daycare provider is licensed as a family group home which max capacity is 12 children. Last week when picking up our boys there were 16 children in the home(this is not the first time i have noticed she was over the limit). We have not taken our 2 boys back since. Today we told her we would not be bringing the boys back and she referenced the contract we signed upon enrolling them of the 2 week notice, and we we had to either bring the boys for 2 weeks and pay her, or just pay her. Under normal circumstances this is completely fair and reasonable, although, I feel as if she broke that contract the moment she broke the law in having too many kids.

Am i still obligated to pay her?

Any advice is welcome. We are located in Michigan if that helps any one.
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Old 12-10-2020, 03:06 AM
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1. Were the extra children related to the provider?

My own children and that of immediate family were not counted into ratios with a notarized document.

2. Did you ask about the extra children the first time you noticed and still continued bringing your children to her care?

This will be asked in small claims court.

3. The two weeks notice is pretty standard daycare policy.

It will be difficult to argue in small claims court barring actual damages or injury.
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Old 12-10-2020, 04:10 AM
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In MI the provider's children do count as ratio until I believe age 6.
There is a chance though that her over ratio was actually approved by Licensing, due to over demand during this pandemic.

Unless harm was done to your children, I don't see a judge allowing you to break your contract, but the law surprises me all the time so, if I were you I would seek professional advise, contact a lawyer
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Old 12-10-2020, 06:18 AM
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Provider should have license posted and visible for you to read. You may also search licensor's site for the info...at least here you can. There it states how many children and what ages she is licensed for. See what it says to determine if she is overcapacity.

I am a group family daycare and am licensed for up to 16 kids (though that has been temporarily reduced to a 'pod' of 15 due to the pandemic). Twelve have to be at least 2yo and remaining 4 have to be school age: Kindergarten and up.

If I have kids under 2yo (which I never do), that reduces the number of children I can have. That is the main reason I take kids at 2yo, so I can maximize the # of children I can have.

I stop at 12 which is the ideal # with an assistant. However, there are times when I have schoolage kids who graduated from my program. They come to me on days their schools are closed and/or for summer.
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Old 12-10-2020, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advice.needed View Post
Our daycare provider is licensed as a family group home which max capacity is 12 children. Last week when picking up our boys there were 16 children in the home(this is not the first time i have noticed she was over the limit). We have not taken our boys back since. Today we told her we would not be bringing the boys back and she referenced the contract we signed upon enrolling them of the 2 week notice, and we we had to either bring the boys for 2 weeks and pay her, or just pay her. I feel as if she broke that contract the moment she broke the law in having too many kids. Am i still obligated to pay her? Any advice is welcome. We are located in Michigan if that helps any one.
Wait I think I know this provider.

Seriously, there is a provider near me that was caught being over ratio (group provider caught with 16 kids), she tried to claim children as being related. Her licensing consultant did not by that the children were her husband's uncle's cousin step kids. She got wrote up with a few pages of violations which included falsifying documents. She still operates and currently offering care during off hours which is a violation that could be avoided by just calling and asking for weekends to be added to hours of operation.

Back to your provider... Since I don't think that she put in her contract that she would not go over ratio I don't think it's a breach in contract. It is however a violation in her agreement with the state of Michigan. But then again you were under the impression that she would keep her agreement with the state, so I can see how you feel it is a breach of contract.

So my advice is to contact Tom Copeland at www.tomcopelandblog.com, he is a daycare lawyer that gives free advice and he is the best to ask this question to.

But I feel that he will advise you to pay and then sue. If he does recommend that and you take that advice, I would add to send the check certified with a letter stating why you that you don't feel that you owe the money because you find her in breach of contract for violating her agreement with the state... Stating dates and times you counted more than 12 kids.

Also, you can contact the state and let them know that you suspect that she is in violations of the state ratio. You can do that by calling her licensing consultant or LARA or reporting her online at
https://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601...3044--,00.html
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2020, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolores View Post
Provider should have license posted and visible for you to read. You may also search licensor's site for the info...at least here you can. There it states how many children and what ages she is licensed for. See what it says to determine if she is overcapacity.

I am a group family daycare and am licensed for up to 16 kids (though that has been temporarily reduced to a 'pod' of 15 due to the pandemic). Twelve have to be at least 2yo and remaining 4 have to be school age: Kindergarten and up.

If I have kids under 2yo (which I never do), that reduces the number of children I can have. That is the main reason I take kids at 2yo, so I can maximize the # of children I can have.

I stop at 12 which is the ideal # with an assistant. However, there are times when I have schoolage kids who graduated from my program. They come to me on days their schools are closed and/or for summer.

The poster is 100% correct on the number of kids allowed in her providers group child care.

Group is 12 and family is 6 in Michigan.
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:45 AM
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Have you ever seen your provider over ratio before? Are there any other concerns you've had other than that one day?

How exactly did you count 16? Were they all in one room and you were able to accurately do a head count? Were they outside? Were they ALL young or were some school age? Were any of these children her own? Is there a helper or second caregiver?


I can tell you there have been several times it may LOOK like I'm over my ratios when parents pick up, stay to ask me questions and they brought their other (older) siblings with, who run into my house because they know me, the kids and the environment.
There are also neighbors who stop by when we're out front to chat with the kids. Plus it may look suspicious when my own kids have friends over. My 13 year old's bff is so tiny, she looks like she's not more than 8.

I'm not saying there isn't providers who break the law, there certainly is. But there are also mitigating circumstances that could explain situations like these too.

Either way, two wrongs don't make a right.
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Old 12-13-2020, 04:36 PM
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If she is breaking the law her contract is null and void.
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2020, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariana View Post
If she is breaking the law her contract is null and void.
With COVID, many providers are being asked to take in extra kids, temporarily. My state even has a scholarship to pay for it to support virtual learners. They are waving some requirements for school-agers.

OP needs to find out if her provider is operating illegally. A call to licensing should clear it right up.
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Old 12-14-2020, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
With COVID, many providers are being asked to take in extra kids, temporarily. My state even has a scholarship to pay for it to support virtual learners. They are waving some requirements for school-agers.

OP needs to find out if her provider is operating illegally. A call to licensing should clear it right up.
Michigan is not allowing extra kids.

If the provider has her own kids that do not count or teenage assistance, she should reveal that to the families.

Revealing the teenage assistant is a requirement.

My own son counts in my ratio but when my husband returns home then he can take responsibility of our son and he will no longer count in my ratio. So having someone in her home taking care of just for her kids is a possibility. But again it's in her best interest to reveal this information so that no confusion happens.
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:11 AM
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Interesting.

Varying states do things so differently. It is impossible to keep up anymore.
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Interesting.

Varying states do things so differently. It is impossible to keep up anymore.
In my state what they are allowing and not allowing varies by county so definitely confusing.
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