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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Gun Control
My3cents 10:20 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I would be concerned about teachers having guns on them in the classroom with 20+ students. Perhaps not so much with younger students, but how about with older students that were aware the teacher had a gun on them. How difficult would it be for an out of control student, or group of students to catch the teacher off gaurd and take the gun?
Bingo!

or another teacher that has gone mad- or a madman coming in and just taking it from the teacher and going nuts- the possibilities of a not so good outcome are higher here in my 3cents.

This is why I said think about it in my earlier response-
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Blackcat31 10:29 AM 12-19-2012
Here is a good solution IMHO. (copied and pasted from another site)

"Bush signed a law that allowed concealed carry for retired police officers. It also provided a measure of indemnification to protect the retiree from what would be violations of state and local CC laws.

The idea was this would allow retired police to volunteer or take security positions at local schools.

Retired police have the knowledge and the temperament to handle a crisis situation and to recognize a potential threat. The key in the law was it protected the retiree from criminal and civil prosecution in most cases in regards to concealed carry. Federal law trumping state and local authority."


http://www.fop.net/legislative/issue...8/hr218faq.pdf
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Blackcat31 10:34 AM 12-19-2012
A school district in rural Texas implemented a staff concealed carry program over 5 years ago.

http://permianbasin360.com/fulltext?nxd_id=238812

"Safety is his biggest priority, Mendez offers a different solution.

"How about the idea of peace, peace-keeping and non-violence?" said Mendez.

But regardless of how some people feel about teachers packing heat, Harrold ISD says their system is working for them, and could potentially work for schools across the country.

"These shootings are not taking place where there are armed security guards, and there are people there protected," said Thweatt. "They are happening where everyone is unarmed."
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Scout 10:44 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Interesting statistics about attacks in primary schools. Going back to 1764.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rimary_schools

Not saying the current situation isn't the worst, it is by no means the first that happend in a primary or elementary school.

I think the media makes the stories much more available and accessible ot the public.

Here is the list for attacks at secondary schools. My community is on the list. October 5, 1966

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ondary_schools
My community is on the second list 3 times! One dead on Nov. 7, 94; one dead on Oct. 10, 07; and the worst was just this year on Feb. 27, three died. Maybe this is why I feel so strongly about gun control. My in laws went to one of the wakes in February & waited in line 3 hours to give their condolences to the family of one of the victims. DS goes to preschool in the first city from 1994...just all too close to home! This is a list I would not want to have in common with you BC! Thanks for the links.
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DBug 11:36 AM 12-19-2012
This whole debate really boils my blood, so I'll keep my mouth shut

However, I did want to add this link to provide a little bit of international perspective Gun Laws in Canada Help Counter US-Style Massacres

The comment section is quite diverse, and has alot of food for thought ...
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Blackcat31 11:46 AM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by DBug:
This whole debate really boils my blood, so I'll keep my mouth shut

However, I did want to add this link to provide a little bit of international perspective Gun Laws in Canada Help Counter US-Style Massacres

The comment section is quite diverse, and has alot of food for thought ...
Depends on how you view the statistics.

The U.S has ten times the population that Canada does.

The fire arm related death rate is higher in Canada than the U.S.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate
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MarinaVanessa 01:41 PM 12-19-2012
Originally Posted by Greenplasticwateringcans:
Aspergers is not a mental illness.
I was referring to the fact that he was diagnosed and struggled with depression throughout a large portion of his life and has had suicidal tendencies.
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originalkat 07:16 AM 12-20-2012
Originally Posted by MamaG:
Sure bet you'd change your mind if we had a civil war and had to fight the oppression of a tyrant in office at the White House. Just sayn.
I couldn't agree more!
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originalkat 07:42 AM 12-20-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I have to politely disagree with the assault rifle opinion. I am one of those that owns an AR-15, several hunting rifles and quite a few handguns. Licensing knows that we own them and we have showed them where they and the ammo is kept. I am a responsible gun enthusiast and follow all laws including following the requirements to owning the AR-15.

I think that instead of pointing fingers to place blame on gun control laws or to ban assault rifles our focus should be more on better access to mental health care for the general population. Or if anything, place blame where it is due ... such as the aggressors and perhaps parents if the agressor is a child.

If making something illegal will reduce or remove unwanted behavior and actions then why is that we still have a drug problem in america? Just because drugs are illegal does not make them inaccessible. I don't think that banning assault rifles will help matters because if someone determined to hurt someone can't get a hold of one then they'll simply use a handgun, a shotgun, a bomb, a knife, a brick, a baseball bat, a kitchen knife, a piece of rope ... anything they can get their hands on.
I completely agree with you Marina Vanessa. We are also gun enthusiasts and own an assault rifle along with other handguns. Making something illegal does not diminish it's use. It does take away the legal right to bear arms. We are in America for a reason...FREEDOM.
Quotes from our founding fathers:

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
-- George Washington

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."
-- Abraham Lincoln, 4 April 1861

A few more quotes:
...Virtually never are murderers the ordinary, law-abiding people against whom gun bans are aimed. Almost without exception, murderers are extreme aberrants with lifelong histories of crime, substance abuse, psychopathology, mental retardation and/or irrational violence against those around them, as well as other hazardous behavior, e.g., automobile and gun accidents."
-- Don B. Kates, writing on statistical patterns in gun crime

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
-- John F. Kennedy

The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
-- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story of the John Marshall Court

No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.
-- "Political Disquisitions", a British republican tract of 1774-1775

What country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Col. William S. Smith, 1787
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Country Kids 08:20 AM 12-20-2012
I understand both sides. I have never had anyone close have their life taken with a gun so I can't say I know what that feels like personally but do understand for people that have.

What I personally do not like is what I saw happen last night-the anger over it. I was watching (Piers Morgan I believe) and there was just so much anger from the people that want guns banned. Anytime someone for guns tried to explain something, another question was thrown at them and then they were asked to explain that before getting to answer the first. Then they were accused of not wanting to answer questions. I didn't get to watch it all but it just seemed like alot of people yelling a each other trying to prove their point and not solving a thing.

Everyday people are killed by different things but I think the panic comes from it happening to many people at once. It really bothered me on these children and everyday I feel a lose when watching tv.

Fires, car wrecks, people driving under the influenze (drugs/alcohol), guns, drugs/alcohol, knives, AIDS are some of the things people die from every day. I'm sure there are 20 people that die in fires everyday but not in one place. We had one here in our town this week. Definetly 20 people die in car wrecks a day as long as the rest of my list. The thing is, its not in a concentrated area so one it doesn't get the media coverage. There was a mall shooting last week in my area and it received 1 day of coverage. They had the memorials for the victims (two) this week but I don't know if they received any coverage.

Aids kills thousands of people a year. Should we outlaw sex so that it can't be spread anymore to innocent people and children that it is passed too? People that knowingly have it pass it to others on a daily basis with no problem. Drugs are only have the problem with that killer.

I can't live in fear, not let my family. I could get in my car today and be killed in it. It probably wouldn't receive any coverage nor make a lasting impression but I would be one of 20 people if not more that died in a car wreck that day. I just have to go forward knowing I'm trying to make the world a better place by raising a great family and trying to pass kindness to others. Its the best I personally can do but arguing and fighting are not going to solve anything.
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laundrymom 09:56 AM 12-20-2012
I just want to hug you! I love your response. You rock.
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I understand both sides. I have never had anyone close have their life taken with a gun so I can't say I know what that feels like personally but do understand for people that have.

What I personally do not like is what I saw happen last night-the anger over it. I was watching (Piers Morgan I believe) and there was just so much anger from the people that want guns banned. Anytime someone for guns tried to explain something, another question was thrown at them and then they were asked to explain that before getting to answer the first. Then they were accused of not wanting to answer questions. I didn't get to watch it all but it just seemed like alot of people yelling a each other trying to prove their point and not solving a thing.

Everyday people are killed by different things but I think the panic comes from it happening to many people at once. It really bothered me on these children and everyday I feel a lose when watching tv.

Fires, car wrecks, people driving under the influenze (drugs/alcohol), guns, drugs/alcohol, knives, AIDS are some of the things people die from every day. I'm sure there are 20 people that die in fires everyday but not in one place. We had one here in our town this week. Definetly 20 people die in car wrecks a day as long as the rest of my list. The thing is, its not in a concentrated area so one it doesn't get the media coverage. There was a mall shooting last week in my area and it received 1 day of coverage. They had the memorials for the victims (two) this week but I don't know if they received any coverage.

Aids kills thousands of people a year. Should we outlaw sex so that it can't be spread anymore to innocent people and children that it is passed too? People that knowingly have it pass it to others on a daily basis with no problem. Drugs are only have the problem with that killer.

I can't live in fear, not let my family. I could get in my car today and be killed in it. It probably wouldn't receive any coverage nor make a lasting impression but I would be one of 20 people if not more that died in a car wreck that day. I just have to go forward knowing I'm trying to make the world a better place by raising a great family and trying to pass kindness to others. Its the best I personally can do but arguing and fighting are not going to solve anything.

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DBug 11:09 AM 12-20-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Depends on how you view the statistics.

The U.S has ten times the population that Canada does.

The fire arm related death rate is higher in Canada than the U.S.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate
US is listed at 10.2 per 100,000 people whereas Canada is listed at 4.78 per 100,000 people ... unless I'm reading it wrong?

Granted, Canada's info on that chart is from '92.
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Crystal 12:19 PM 12-20-2012
There are 90 gun related fatalities in the U.S. every day. That is 32,850 gun related deaths per year, barring we do not have mass shootings such as the one at Sandy Hook Elementary. I would think that that would be significant enough to prompt some sort of gun/ammunition control, and open people's eyes to the need of some sort of preventative measures. But, I guess not.
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Country Kids 12:45 PM 12-20-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
There are 90 gun related fatalities in the U.S. every day. That is 32,850 gun related deaths per year, barring we do not have mass shootings such as the one at Sandy Hook Elementary. I would think that that would be significant enough to prompt some sort of gun/ammunition control, and open people's eyes to the need of some sort of preventative measures. But, I guess not.
I understand what you are saying Crystal but look at the statics on aids killing people and its not seeming to get better-only worse. Remember this is only happening in the last 30 years. I guessing more people are infected daily from Aids then gun related deaths. So if we can ban guns, can we ban sex?


U.S. Aids Statistics

Data



Number of People in the U.S. living with an AIDS diagnosis

479,161



Estimated number of people in the U.S. living with HIV

1.2 Million



Number of People diagnosed with AIDS in 2009

34,993



Estimate number of new AIDS infections each year

50,000



Percent of new infections that occurred in gay and bisexual men

61 %



U.S. AIDS rate per 100,000 population

11.2



Number of people in the U.S. who have died from AIDS

617,025



City with the highest AIDS rate per 100,000 population – Miami

37.2



State with the highest AIDS rate per 100,000 population – New York

24.6



Number of children (<13) living with an AIDS diagnosis

4,04
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Crystal 12:49 PM 12-20-2012
I see absolutely no relevance in comparing AIDS to gun related deaths. People's sexual activity cannot, in any way, be controlled or curbed by our government. Gun related deaths can. I think it is silly to even compare the two.
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MyAngels 02:07 PM 12-20-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
There are 90 gun related fatalities in the U.S. every day. That is 32,850 gun related deaths per year, barring we do not have mass shootings such as the one at Sandy Hook Elementary. I would think that that would be significant enough to prompt some sort of gun/ammunition control, and open people's eyes to the need of some sort of preventative measures. But, I guess not.
Gun control will be an uphill battle in this country for several reasons.

There are 300 million guns already in this country (as of 2010). Banning the sale and/or manufacture of new weapons won't alter that. I think it was MarinaVanessa who said it is unrealistic to expect legal gun owners to willingly give up their previously purchased guns without some form of compensation and she is right. With a country that's already in deficit there is no funding for the massive buy back program it would take to even put a dent in the already existing weapons ownership.

I think banning the high capacity magazines is an idea, but again, there are already untold numbers of these circulating now. After the assault weapon ban was lifted in 2004 gun enthusiasts bought up all they could find in the event the ban was reinstated. They've been easily obtainable as military surplus in recent years and they're unregulated.

Regulating the sale of certain types of ammunition might be possible, but it's easy and common for individuals to make their own rounds, too, so that's not quite as easy as it sounds, either.

I have no doubt that due to the visceral and emotional reactions to these recent tragedies and most especially due to the Newtown Massacre that some sort of gun control will be pushed, and pushed hard. What I would hate to see is all of the attention focused on that so that it becomes seen as the be-all-end-all solution to this problem. This is a multi-faceted problem and just as much, if not more, attention needs to be focused on both the mental health aspect and societal aspect of this as well.
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Country Kids 02:27 PM 12-20-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I see absolutely no relevance in comparing AIDS to gun related deaths. People's sexual activity cannot, in any way, be controlled or curbed by our government. Gun related deaths can. I think it is silly to even compare the two.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._brown_wi.html

Chrystal please read the above link. These children were as innocent as the ones that were in CT. I knew some of these children and what they went through will be an everlasting event in their lives. Two of the children were adopted from another country where conditions were horrible to come to the USA and then have this happen to them.

By the way these children were being abused at a childcare. Yes, the parents did all the right measures in checking it out and that. One parent was a state police officer/the other a nurse. It was a respected childcare.

In another article I read, he told the little girl the spiders will get you if you tell mommy or daddy. Imagine if that was your child or someone you knew.

Yes, this isn't about gun control but it is about another type of killer to people. A killer that does take as many lives if not more as guns.
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Blackcat31 02:48 PM 12-20-2012
Originally Posted by DBug:
US is listed at 10.2 per 100,000 people whereas Canada is listed at 4.78 per 100,000 people ... unless I'm reading it wrong?

Granted, Canada's info on that chart is from '92.
Sorry, I posted the wrong link. http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2...ent-crime.html

I wasn't really trying to make a big deal....just with all the talk and stuff, it just seems there is so much info (conflicting info) going around.

I don't suppose it really matters either way since I personally believe that banning guns will do nothing to change the issue at hand.

I think there are many more influences and contributing factors to situations like the one that just happened other than guns.

So I suppose pointng out what countries are or aren't safer or have more guns or don't really doesn't matter since I doubt any of us are planning a move soon...
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wahmof3 03:40 PM 12-20-2012
First of all, like every single one of you, am I deeply saddened by the horrific tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary school.

I am law abiding citizen and we own several guns. We are responsible and teach our children gun safety. My DH has his concealed carry and I will be taking the class after the first of the year to get mine.

When the news broke about the massacre the newscaster really made sense when he said.... we may never know why and it will be very hard for us to understand. He said rational people will never understand what an irrational person does. (something along those lines).

So someone had mentioned putting safety measures into our school systems. I think that every school should be equip with a resource/police officer. Here is the problem with that- FUNDING. I am so disgusted that my county/school district does not have money. We are lower middle class and feel taxed to death, but I hate that there is no money. I agree 100% with those that say there needs to be reform within the school system. But in the financial hardship our district is in, we could never afford to have a resource officer in the building.

Another thing- my counties sheriff's department is in a financial hardship as well. We are down to one patrol on the roads and crime is on the rise in my area. Is it because our police force is weak? Or just the world we are turning into? Both? I don't know, but I know that I am able to protect my family because of my right to bear arms.

Like others have said- regardless of gun control regulation if someone wants to do a horrific massacre they will find a way with or without gun laws.
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Scout 06:11 PM 12-20-2012
I find it absolutely fascinating to see everyone's views on this. That said, I am quite surprised only a few of us think that a massive gun control change is in order. Every one of us is entitled to our own opinions, even when they differ. It is clear that I am in the minority here but, that's okay. It is what it is! Our country had a terrible loss & nothing can change that. It is my belief however, just as others think not, that gun control could possibly prevent this from happening again. I guess only time will tell what our govt. decides is best. I may or may not agree with it, but, I will still be a citizen of the best dang country on Earth!! I hope that nothing like this ever happens again, in your neighborhood or mine. It has already happened in mine three times since 1994. Maybe this is why my stance isn't altered at all by everyone's input. Life goes on for me, I wish it did for those 26 victims. I will have my children here to celebrate the holidays, they will not. I am thankful for every single day with my family and the events of the last week have just made that stronger. I know that is something EVERY ONE of us can agree on!!
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lovemykidstoo 07:25 PM 12-20-2012
I just don't believe that certain laws regarding gun control will help. Like I said, in the city that is 5 miles away from me they are in the top 10 most dangerous cities in the country. I would venture to say that most of the shootings here are from illegal guns. No law is going to fix that problem. Tehy actually closed my kids' schools tomorrow due to a threat. It was an unfounded threat, but they are not taking any chances.
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Scout 04:14 AM 12-21-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I just don't believe that certain laws regarding gun control will help. Like I said, in the city that is 5 miles away from me they are in the top 10 most dangerous cities in the country. I would venture to say that most of the shootings here are from illegal guns. No law is going to fix that problem. Tehy actually closed my kids' schools tomorrow due to a threat. It was an unfounded threat, but they are not taking any chances.
Thank God for that! Would you have kept her home if they didn't cancel classes?
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Blackcat31 06:34 AM 12-21-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I just don't believe that certain laws regarding gun control will help. Like I said, in the city that is 5 miles away from me they are in the top 10 most dangerous cities in the country. I would venture to say that most of the shootings here are from illegal guns. No law is going to fix that problem. Tehy actually closed my kids' schools tomorrow due to a threat. It was an unfounded threat, but they are not taking any chances.
Yeah, I might have missed it but in NONE of the articles, new stories or media coverages of ANY gun related masscure did I read that the shooter was a law abiding citizen.

Laws help those people who choose to follow them......not those who choose to live by their own.
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SunshineMama 06:50 AM 12-21-2012
I have not read every previous response, but I heard this today, and wanted to share.

When the terrorists attacked our planes on 911, we trained and armed pilots, and added an armed Marshall on flights. No one seems to have an issue with that, and we have not had more attacks since then. People are less likely to cause problems if they know they will be stopped.
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lovemykidstoo 07:18 AM 12-21-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
I have not read every previous response, but I heard this today, and wanted to share.

When the terrorists attacked our planes on 911, we trained and armed pilots, and added an armed Marshall on flights. No one seems to have an issue with that, and we have not had more attacks since then. People are less likely to cause problems if they know they will be stopped.
Exactly. These mass shooters target places where they KNOW will not have anyone armed. I think that a school should just put a sign out front saying "our teachers are armed". Maybe have 1 or 2 here and there armed just to keep some nutjob guessing and see if they want to take the chance.
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lovemykidstoo 07:23 AM 12-21-2012
Originally Posted by Scout:
Thank God for that! Would you have kept her home if they didn't cancel classes?
Actually no I wouldn't have kept my kids home. Many many parents here are mad that they closed school today. Everyone in our whole area like 5 counties wide are just totally flipping out seriously. It is ALL you hear about on the news. None of the reports from any of the schools have been anything serious and they can't track where they came from or if they're even true. Alot of kids are saying things just to get the extra day off before Christmas. They are playing off the fears of CT. The thing is our sons school has 4 security guys and 1 police officer liason. We have all the security measures already in place. Cameras, locked doors with buzzers etc. There is absolutelly nothing that will change on January 2 when they go back that they wouldn't be doing today if they had school. My question was, this so called threat has been out there since before CT. So, why was it okay for the kids to go to school all week and not today? What will they do different on January 2 when they go back? Nothing because they already have everything in place. It's just that all of these other counties closed so they were basically pressured to close too. I think it's setting a terrible presidence to these kids that want to goof around. I venture to say that none of these people that shot up schools called ahead and said that they were coming. Bottom line is I have faith in the security of our school. I know that they do everything they can every day of the school year, not just when there is an "unsubstantiated" threat.

Phew, sorry I'm a little wound up about this. My kids were ticked that they couldn't go to school today. My daughter had a fun day planned and my son had 3 tests that he was supposed to take. Now he's got to wait 2 weeks to remember everything for those tests.
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SunshineMama 08:29 AM 12-21-2012
Is anyone else watching the NRA's press conference now? They have offered to fund and put together a program to keep kids safe at schools with trained officers, procedures, etc. sounds good to me!
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lovemykidstoo 08:42 AM 12-21-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
Is anyone else watching the NRA's press conference now? They have offered to fund and put together a program to keep kids safe at schools with trained officers, procedures, etc. sounds good to me!
I only saw part of it, but I liked what I heard. I liked the statement that he only way you stop a bad person with a gun is with a good person with a gun. Also would you rather wait what was it 10 minutes for a good guy with a gun or 1 minute for a good guy with a gun. One more was why is it okay for people with guns to protect the president, but not our children. Great point.
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MyAngels 01:50 PM 12-21-2012
Originally Posted by SunshineMama:
Is anyone else watching the NRA's press conference now? They have offered to fund and put together a program to keep kids safe at schools with trained officers, procedures, etc. sounds good to me!
Good for them. If anyone can afford it, they can .
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Country Kids 04:54 PM 12-21-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yeah, I might have missed it but in NONE of the articles, new stories or media coverages of ANY gun related masscure did I read that the shooter was a law abiding citizen.

Laws help those people who choose to follow them......not those who choose to live by their own.
The mall shooting that happened here: the report said they couldn't even find a ticket on the guy. Now that was early in the reports so things may have changed.

Another shooting that happened here: A high schooler shot is parents then went on a rampage at the school.

Sandy Hook: I don't recall them saying that they guy had any type of record either.

So to me it seems like they sometimes just snap!
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