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  #101  
Old 08-26-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by sahm1225 View Post
But why would a provider want a family who is showing them up front that they feel the rules donít apply to them? I think you are misunderstanding that a waitlist as a guarantee that the family will get a spot. They still have to interview for it and make sure theyíre a right fit.
People in business class skip the lines to security and are the first to board the plane. Does this mean "the rules don't apply to them"? Of course not, they're paying for it fair and square. Same concept could apply to daycares.

As for the interview - don't you have to do one in the current system to get on the waitlist in the first place? It could still be a part of the process.
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  #102  
Old 08-26-2019, 04:45 PM
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So say you charged a 'skip the line fee' to prospective clients you've interviewed that you feel may possibly be a good fit, they agree to pay the fee but then after the 2 week trial period you realize you made a terrible mistake and their little Johnny has turned into a terrible monster? Return their fee, boot Johnny and keep on going down the line?
Some of what you say makes sense but I cannot imagine any parents around my area agreeing to paying an extra fee. And I cannot picture a dcf skipping the waiting line and remain easy to work with. Wouldn't they end up feeling very entitled because they paid that extra?
People around my state are lucky to have extra money to begin with, let alone an extra 5K to dish out.
What would be the difference between paying a huge waiting list fee and charging higher than normal weekly rates? Wouldn't that also narrow down your list?
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  #103  
Old 08-26-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Myst_Seattle View Post
Daycare providers could certainly use more money, won't they?

You've mentioned in an older post that you've PM'ed Tom Copeland. Did you get a response by any chance?
No response from Tom yet but I assume heís busy and will reply

As for needing more money... sure Iím sure most providers can use more money but my area canít afford to pay any more than the going rate right now so other than price gouging, whatís in it for the provider?
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  #104  
Old 08-26-2019, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Myst_Seattle View Post
People in business class skip the lines to security and are the first to board the plane. Does this mean "the rules don't apply to them"? Of course not, they're paying for it fair and square. Same concept could apply to daycares.

As for the interview - don't you have to do one in the current system to get on the waitlist in the first place? It could still be a part of the process.
I had a parent that once offered to pay me so her kid could skip past his consequence. (Playing outside without me physically present/Staying inside until I took him outside)
They were termed shortly after...
that mentality isnít the type I want for clients
Not for all the marbles.
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  #105  
Old 08-26-2019, 06:29 PM
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OP, I donít get why youíre so adamant about this.
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  #106  
Old 08-27-2019, 12:27 AM
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OP, I donít get why youíre so adamant about this.
I'm only adamant about the fact that waitlists could in theory be shortened through increased fees. The helpful people of this forum have already explained why they personally refuse to follow such pricing policies and now it makes a lot more sense.
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  #107  
Old 08-27-2019, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Myst_Seattle View Post
I'm only adamant about the fact that waitlists could in theory be shortened through increased fees. The helpful people of this forum have already explained why they personally refuse to follow such pricing policies and now it makes a lot more sense.
The only thing "waitlist" have done here is helped the state to declare "desert daycare counties". Those counties now receive higher subsidy pay and even more pay if non-traditional hours are offered (6A to 6P). Not many providers have offered this, but the state did ask for each county licensor to submit waitlist numbers. So, the consensus was that the waitlist were so long and most families represented needed subsidized and low-cost care therefore, raising rates for the waitlist crew would not have benefitted anyone. Like I said earlier in this thread, I was interested but then thought "leave it alone". But I decided to add my two cents.
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  #108  
Old 08-27-2019, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Myst_Seattle View Post
People in business class skip the lines to security and are the first to board the plane. Does this mean "the rules don't apply to them"? Of course not, they're paying for it fair and square. Same concept could apply to daycares.

As for the interview - don't you have to do one in the current system to get on the waitlist in the first place? It could still be a part of the process.
I don't interview until I have a slot available.

Charging more won't make the children grow up faster. My wait isn't about money it is about occupancy.
  • If I enroll an infant, that slot most likely won't be available again for 4-6 years.
  • If I enroll a two-year-old, that slot won't be available again for an average of 2-4 years.
  • If I have a 5.5-year-old, that slot will be open in 6 months because the mandatory school attendance age is 6 years.

Same for all 6 slots. My next opening depends on when they move on, not who is on the waitlist and what they are willing to pay.
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  #109  
Old 08-27-2019, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Myst_Seattle View Post

As for the interview - don't you have to do one in the current system to get on the waitlist in the first place? It could still be a part of the process.
No I don't have time to tour every family that contacts me, if I did I would never see my family and families don't want to tour a place that doesn't currently have space for their child. The majority of us on this board are home day cares, some have employees but most don't and others are teacher in a centers.

When I get a call, I find out what days and times they need care plus child's age. If it is something that will work, we continue. If not then I offer to add them to my list (and the address of the state website for a list of DC) If they agree, I take there name and contact info, plus some other info and add it to list. If and when something comes available, I check my list for days, times and child age, then contact the families that my needs. If they still need care, then they come for a tour, if the don't then I remove them from the list. Sometimes if it has been a while, I send an email states that I am cleaning up my wait-list, if you would like to stay on my list please let me know by xx day. When I do this it eliminates 90% because none of them are waiting around for me to get an opening, they continue to look until they find care.


Basically my list is a call back list if something comes available and I don't feel like me contacting them back is unsolicited.
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  #110  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:19 AM
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You know why this is ridiculous? Because while you are concentrating on a business model and a supposed way to have more money you are forgetting about the social aspect of this concept.

Line cutting is considered unethical. It's rude and is considered unacceptable in almost all cultures.

Those people that feel it's their right (even when they paid for it) to step in front of the line where others are waiting sends a clear message.

It says "I am better and so much more important than ALL of you."

....and unfortunately that model of humanity isn't something daycare providers believe or invest in.

Child care is a business but it's also a social situation.
Academic lessons as well as social lessons are taught on a daily basis and no where in those lessons and teachable moments is there room to teach someone one that money makes you more important or a priority.

I think a big part of why you are receiving so much push back with this theory is because you are severely underestimating child care providers and their ability to be sensible, caring and ethical human beings.

Basically your theory suggests we exploit the very people we are devoting our lives to helping.

That in and of itself says a lot about what the general public doesn't understand about the child care world.


There have been many studies done in regards to paying for the "right" to step in front of others and none of them really have a very positive outcome. Most of them found that society is generally more apt to help others and to do the right thing without being paid to do so.

Social order is a requirement for a society to operate smoothly. There are social norms and rules that most people follow simply because it's the right thing to do.

Your business model of sticking it to those that can't afford to be first or front of the line demonstrates a lack of morals and the ability to understand other people's perspectives.

Failure to have empathy and understanding of members within the same social group is a dangerous position to be in.
Narcissism comes to mind. As does Lord of the Flies

Anyways, my point is that while paying more to cut in line might work for some business models it does not work in child care.

There is a cost to cut in line but the cost is not monetary. I am sorry you are not able to see that.
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  #111  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myst_Seattle View Post
Daycare providers could certainly use more money, won't they?

You've mentioned in an older post that you've PM'ed Tom Copeland. Did you get a response by any chance?
Is it legal to charge a fee to be on a wait list? Yes. Is it legal to move someone to the top of the wait list if they pay a fee? Yes. Is it legal to move someone up the wait list even if they don't pay a fee? Yes, as long as the reason is not because of illegal discrimination (race, sex, religion, etc.).
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  #112  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:37 AM
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Iím going to assume OP loves the business model Martin Shkreli uses...

Thatís a shame
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  #113  
Old 08-27-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Iím going to assume OP loves the business model Martin Shkreli uses...

Thatís a shame

Absolutely not. Shkreli created an artificial scarcity by jacking up the price, instead of manufacturing more of the drug. Daycares are cannot be manufactured on a plant.
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  #114  
Old 08-27-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
NYB.

I actually googled NYB to see what degree that stood for. Don't worry, I did get it in the end.
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Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
Yep! Exactly. I have never bothered having a wait list. The parents find other care. They aren’t all just waiting around with no daycare.
Wait...I got edited by Michael. What did I say????

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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Real-life business owners do whatever they want.

Truth


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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
It isn't about convenience. It's about keeping my own family fed and keeping my finances in check too... Like previously posted....it's about job security. Not all areas in the country are the same so not all daycares have waitlists. ****
There will be no U-Haul trucks following my funeral procession. I'd rather make a difference in someone's life than earn an extra $ or two. In the child care business it isn't black and white like it might be in other businesses.


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Originally Posted by Ariana View Post
Here it is a completely different story and I said MOST not ALL providers. We all know great educated providers and we all know dolts.
Yep!

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Originally Posted by Indoorvoice View Post
I think I'm totally missing this argument. The only reason I had a wait list was because I had more people interested in spots than I had spots available. I don't see how pricing people out of my wait list would have helped me at all. Then when someone leaves, I have no one to choose from. Everyone already complains about paying for daycare and expects you to watch their kids for next to nothing. I would have no clients if I had charged higher than what I already charged...
Yep!

I think that things in daycare are just more fluid than you are really understanding, Myst. When news outlets report numbers, sometimes they're being a bit dramatic. Sometimes things depend on perspective.

I don't get constant calls for care. Sometimes people aren't looking for care in my town, because it's high COL and a lot of people are past the baby stage. People have family help them out. There's more demand in the towns next to mine.

And I would honestly say that prices have indeed gone up in counties around here in the past few years, since the economy got better. COL has gone way up in general here. Prices in daycare do change, but it's not instant, the way that gas prices change.
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  #115  
Old 08-27-2019, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
Wait...I got edited by Michael. What did I say???
It may have been a word that needed correction. I tend to fix grammar or misspelled words for search reasons.
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  #116  
Old 08-29-2019, 07:35 AM
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We have wait lists for my center openings based on the numbers we can have in attendance. There have been times when it has been up to 1 year based on the ages and number of kiddos in the families on our list. Sometimes parents will find an alternative that they are satisfied with and no longer need to be on our wait list and sometimes parents are just waiting it out until they can come into our program. If I do raise tuition it is because we have decided to raise tuition. It is not based on how many are on our wait list, since the wait list is only used to supplement openings we have. I think its great to have families on a wait list - it means you have a good program that others want to be a part of!
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  #117  
Old 08-29-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Myst_Seattle View Post
Others have already explained why my idea might not necessarily work out in practice for everyone, see the comments above. But here's how it works in theory:

1. Let's say your daycare is based in a major city, charges $100/week and has a waitlist of 2 years
2. You increase the price to $120/week and wait for a year. Now your waitlist has decreased to 1.5 years
3. You further increase the price to $150/week and wait for another year. Now your waitlist is at 6 months.

For you as a business having a 6 month waitlist should be as good as having a 2 year waitlist, as you still have enough potential clients at your door whenever you have a vacancy. And at the same time your profit margins go up as you now charge more than you did before, for the exact same amount of work. As a bonus parents can now plan for daycare much more easily, as wait times will become short and predictable.
I love your question and I don't find it ridiculous at all, but I'm coming from a corporate business background. I briefly considered opening up my own day care, but after some research decided I didn't want to take a pay cut to deal with difficult families and daily operations. I would imagine that if maximizing profit was the main motivator, a lot of DCs wouldn't be in this field. Your point about the bigger franchises like Fullbright is a good one though.

I've been in a lot of situations where something that may appear obvious to someone can actually be very nuanced. The entitled parents because they paid extra is a really good example of that! Something I'll keep in mind as it applies to businesses outside of daycares as well

I also want to point out that a pure Supply & Demand model doesn't apply for daycares. I wouldn't want to send my baby to a daycare that costs $7/month, and on the other end of the spectrum, people wrongly conflate price with quality
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  #118  
Old 08-29-2019, 11:28 AM
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My waitlist is about 3 years, now. I charge what I need to earn to meet my financial obligations, keep an emergency fund and life insurance, take a couple of vacations per year and fund my IRA. It has nothing to do with whom is on the list. I also have no desire to earn more, more money = more problems in my experience. I love my life as it is.

My tuition rate is fixed, increases yearly (just like my clients' wages) and reflects inflation in my region. I am not sure what you mean by "vary the pricing based on the number of customers". It has nothing to do with the number of customers, that is a fixed number, too, set by my regulations. I did not choose it and feel it is low for my ability.

Maybe OP should petition the state of Washington to increase ratios based on the education of the staff. Teachers with masters degrees are capable of caring for more children than those without, based on the logic in this thread, correct?

I am licensed for 16 children, ages 6 weeks to 12 years. I enroll only children 2+, therefor the 4 under 2 does not apply to me. I hold a bachelor's in ECE and my assistant holds a CDA, pursuing an associates in ECE with an eventual ST degree.

Now, *I* feel that we can easily manage more children and my waiting list would be shortened by about 6-12 months IF the state would allow us to waive enrolling children under 2, and enroll 20 children ages 2-6 instead of 16.

THAT makes more sense to ME than charging more money (we are currently the highest priced in home in our zip code) with a waiting list that is full for September of 2020 because I refuse to do the paperwork to extend it beyond a year.

Siblings take priority. (more money)
Full time takes priority. (more money)

If we raised rates any higher (and we do, annually) we would be at local center rates, who do NOT have a waiting list and are actively seeking enrollment.
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  #119  
Old 08-29-2019, 11:44 AM
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Maybe OP should petition the state of Washington to increase ratios based on the education of the staff. Teachers with masters degrees are capable of caring for more children than those without, based on the logic in this thread, correct?
I'm dying over here. I know two "providers" with masters degrees and they are both trainwrecks. Constant meltdowns, call-outs and no-shows. One can't work without her "therapy dog" (who rides in a stroller) due to the noise stress.

I would love it if they raised the ratios, though. I admit I was pushed some days with 12 alone (so rarely enrolled that many full-time), but 8 flows masterfully for me. When they cut me from 12 to 6 in one year, it nearly put me out of business.
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