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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Question For Licensed Providers
AnythingsPossible 10:26 AM 05-20-2011
I am 95% sure that my neighbor is watching more children then you are allowed to in our state without being licensed. Would you turn her in, or just let it be?? The thing of it is, without completly spying on her, I am not 100% sure the kids are all there at the same time, but I have seen 4 different families dropping kids off at her house.
My dilema is that 1, I know her house is to small to be watching a decent amount of kids as I have been in the house. 2, I had to jump through the hoops to get licensed so why shouldn't she. 3, I have seen her do things that you definately shouldn't do--standing on her back patio smoking while the kids are in the house (I can see this from my kitchen window) I guess it's good she isn't smoking in the house, but there is no way she could be supervising them the way her house is set up.
Am I *itchy neighbor if I turn her in, or a bad provider if I don't????
My dilema is that 1, I know her house is to small to be watching a decent amount of kids as I have been in the house. 2, I had to jump through the hoops to get licensed so why shouldn't she. 3, I have seen her do things that you definately shouldn't do--standing on her back patio smoking while the kids are in the house (I can see this from my kitchen window) I guess it's good she isn't smoking in the house, but there is no way she could be supervising them the way her house is set up.
Am I *itchy neighbor if I turn her in, or a bad provider if I don't????
DBug 11:06 AM 05-20-2011
I wouldn't say anything or turn her in unless I had reason to believe there was an abusive or reportable situation happening (ie. proof). I certainly wouldn't want anyone reporting me unless they had a VERY good reason to!
I'm not licensed, and there are lots of home daycares opening up around here that aren't either. The thing is, some of them are just SAHMs that don't know that even though we're unlicensed, there are still laws that apply to us. And of course, some of them do know better, but take too many kids anyway.
Because of that, I've made a point of telling every parent I come in contact with what the ratios are that apply to my daycare. I've even put it on my website, which is one of the first that comes up when searching for care in my area. I figure if at least the parents know, they can find a home daycare that is following the rules, and likely they'll also let their friends know so that they can look for legal care as well.
I think it's really the parent's responsibility to look for good quality care, and if I can help them do that, great! On the other hand, if they're okay with their child being unsupervised while the provider takes a smoke break, that's their responsibility too.
Now, if you had seen your neighbour beating a child, that would be a completely different matter ...
I'm not licensed, and there are lots of home daycares opening up around here that aren't either. The thing is, some of them are just SAHMs that don't know that even though we're unlicensed, there are still laws that apply to us. And of course, some of them do know better, but take too many kids anyway.
Because of that, I've made a point of telling every parent I come in contact with what the ratios are that apply to my daycare. I've even put it on my website, which is one of the first that comes up when searching for care in my area. I figure if at least the parents know, they can find a home daycare that is following the rules, and likely they'll also let their friends know so that they can look for legal care as well.
I think it's really the parent's responsibility to look for good quality care, and if I can help them do that, great! On the other hand, if they're okay with their child being unsupervised while the provider takes a smoke break, that's their responsibility too.
Now, if you had seen your neighbour beating a child, that would be a completely different matter ...
laundrymom 11:14 AM 05-20-2011
Agree. But I'd just ask her. Say hey I see you have higher enrollment!! Congrats on the license!! We have the best career!! Talk to you later.
Originally Posted by DBug:
I wouldn't say anything or turn her in unless I had reason to believe there was an abusive or reportable situation happening (ie. proof). I certainly wouldn't want anyone reporting me unless they had a VERY good reason to!
I'm not licensed, and there are lots of home daycares opening up around here that aren't either. The thing is, some of them are just SAHMs that don't know that even though we're unlicensed, there are still laws that apply to us. And of course, some of them do know better, but take too many kids anyway.
Because of that, I've made a point of telling every parent I come in contact with what the ratios are that apply to my daycare. I've even put it on my website, which is one of the first that comes up when searching for care in my area. I figure if at least the parents know, they can find a home daycare that is following the rules, and likely they'll also let their friends know so that they can look for legal care as well.
I think it's really the parent's responsibility to look for good quality care, and if I can help them do that, great! On the other hand, if they're okay with their child being unsupervised while the provider takes a smoke break, that's their responsibility too.
Now, if you had seen your neighbour beating a child, that would be a completely different matter ...
I wouldn't say anything or turn her in unless I had reason to believe there was an abusive or reportable situation happening (ie. proof). I certainly wouldn't want anyone reporting me unless they had a VERY good reason to!
I'm not licensed, and there are lots of home daycares opening up around here that aren't either. The thing is, some of them are just SAHMs that don't know that even though we're unlicensed, there are still laws that apply to us. And of course, some of them do know better, but take too many kids anyway.
Because of that, I've made a point of telling every parent I come in contact with what the ratios are that apply to my daycare. I've even put it on my website, which is one of the first that comes up when searching for care in my area. I figure if at least the parents know, they can find a home daycare that is following the rules, and likely they'll also let their friends know so that they can look for legal care as well.
I think it's really the parent's responsibility to look for good quality care, and if I can help them do that, great! On the other hand, if they're okay with their child being unsupervised while the provider takes a smoke break, that's their responsibility too.
Now, if you had seen your neighbour beating a child, that would be a completely different matter ...
youretooloud 12:13 PM 05-20-2011
I'd tend to leave it alone, unless you see it as a safety risk. I don't know what each state's laws are.
I know Michigan is very strict. But, other states don't really bother much. In some states, you can be regulated and you don't have to be licensed.
If it's a strict state, then I'd consider turning her in, because it's not fair to those who jump through the hoops.
I know Michigan is very strict. But, other states don't really bother much. In some states, you can be regulated and you don't have to be licensed.
If it's a strict state, then I'd consider turning her in, because it's not fair to those who jump through the hoops.
Stacy214 12:17 PM 05-20-2011
UGh...I'm half and half on this....the part that worked your butt off for your license would be calling but then like DBug said you wouldn't want anyone calling on you for anything unless you suspected abuse...This is really tough! Do you ever talk to her ?? I like what laundrymom said ...be sweet and get the facts too.
sharlan 01:12 PM 05-20-2011
One side of me says MYOB unless you see something unsafe. The parents know what's going on. The other side says that you have no idea how safe the inside of the house is, report it.
Gurdy 01:40 PM 05-20-2011
I am licensed and I would not report her unless I really thought there was something dangerous going on.
I chose to "jump through the hoops" and obtain my license, but that does not mean that I get to make that decision for someone else.
I chose to "jump through the hoops" and obtain my license, but that does not mean that I get to make that decision for someone else.
kidkair 04:03 PM 05-20-2011
I'd talk to my licensor about it because the laws are there for safety reasons. Having too many kids in a small area and not providing adequate supervision are dangerous situations in my opinion.
PeanutsGalore 12:57 AM 05-22-2011
The parents know who they left their kid with, that she smokes, and that she takes care of a whole bunch of other kids. One of my mama friends is in a situation like this, but she trusts her provider and said she would NEVEr turn her in for being over the legal number of kids, because really--who does that help?
Just because you decided to get licensed, doesn't mean everyone has to, so that shouldn't even factor into your decision as to whether you should report her or not. Think carefully, for a long time, as to whether the kids are really in danger with her. Danger is the key word. If the answer is yes, then you report, if the answer is no, then you don't. Pretty simple; don't complicate it.
Just because you decided to get licensed, doesn't mean everyone has to, so that shouldn't even factor into your decision as to whether you should report her or not. Think carefully, for a long time, as to whether the kids are really in danger with her. Danger is the key word. If the answer is yes, then you report, if the answer is no, then you don't. Pretty simple; don't complicate it.
snbauser 08:33 AM 05-22-2011
It's a tough call. I would probably start with talking to your neighbor. I think that a lot of people don't even know what the laws are regarding what is and what isn't allowed without a license. She may not even know she is breaking the law. If you get to know her then you will be able to help her see the advantages of being licensed and help her through the process so it isn't overwhelming for her. Of course if she doesn't want to get licensed then you are stuck. If you report her you are a nosey, busy body. If you don't and something happens to one of the kids, then you may have to live with the guilt.
Unregistered 10:12 AM 05-22-2011
sometimes people don't want to get licensed because they know they or someone that lives with them won't pass the fingerprint check!!
maybe her hubby or boyfriend has a past?
Could he be a danger to the kids?
maybe her hubby or boyfriend has a past?
Could he be a danger to the kids?
Crystal 12:04 PM 05-22-2011
You are a mandated reporter. If it is a requirement that she be licensed, report it.
I agree with others that you're not sure that there are any dangerous situations, but you're also not sure that there aren't. As someone said, it could be a background check issue.....what if it is and something happens to a kid in care? How would you feel knowing you hadn't made that call?
I'd report it.
I agree with others that you're not sure that there are any dangerous situations, but you're also not sure that there aren't. As someone said, it could be a background check issue.....what if it is and something happens to a kid in care? How would you feel knowing you hadn't made that call?
I'd report it.
Abigail 01:38 PM 05-22-2011
The difficult part is that you're neighbors. If you talk to her and find out she is over ratio for being unlicensed and turn her in, she'll know it was you and will cause tension in the neighborhood. I agree that you having a license shouldn't mean you will compare each other. Does this neigbor provider have any children of her own? If she doesn't she might still be in ratio, especially if all the families are one-child families or possibly a sibling family.
My two cents is to call or go over while you're on a walk after hours and run into her and start a casual "hi neighbor" conversation. Ask her how her business is and ask if this is her long term career where she wants to get licensed. You may find out that she already has a license and then you will not feel bad for saying the wrong thing or feeling like a spying neighbor.
My two cents is to call or go over while you're on a walk after hours and run into her and start a casual "hi neighbor" conversation. Ask her how her business is and ask if this is her long term career where she wants to get licensed. You may find out that she already has a license and then you will not feel bad for saying the wrong thing or feeling like a spying neighbor.
cheerfuldom 05:25 PM 05-22-2011
I say report her. Its up to the state to decide if she is "legal" or not. You already know that she IS doing something unsafe by taking smoke breaks and leaving the kids unattended. You should be able to report without giving your name. Doesn't matter if the parents think this is okay or not because 1. they might not know what is going on and 2. I feel we are all obligated to speak up for children regardless of whether a parent thinks something is okay. Some parents think neglecting and abusing kids is okay, so should we just not say anything in that case?
tulip1969 05:54 AM 05-23-2011
I wouldn't do it unless I suspected abuse or was positive that she had way too many kids at once. After all you have a daycare too and she might retaliate against you even though you are doing nothing wrong. I think you would be opening a can of worms.
momofboys 06:10 AM 05-23-2011
Unless you are worried about abuse to me it sounds like you are just being nosey & are concerned she may take business from you? In my state we are not required to be licensed. I wonder how much time you have been spying on her & in so doing are you taking care away from the kids in your care? Just mind your own business unless you suspect something abusive & it doesn't sound like that is the case. She could have some kids who are PT or drop-ins. Having 4 families doesn't mean you are over your limit.
jen 06:52 AM 05-23-2011
I am licensed and I would NOT report her. I would assume that the parents of said children were perfectly capable of finding suitable care for their children and that I and the State butt out.
The only time I would consider reporting is if I suspected abuse.
As for being a mandated reporter, the definition is:
"When a mandated reporter knows or has reason to believe that a child is being neglected or physically or sexually abused by a person responsible for the child's care, or has been so within the previous three years, a report must be made. A person responsible for a child's care includes family members, teachers, day care providers, and coaches, and can include anyone lawfully entrusted with a child's care."
If you don't have any reason to believe that the chilren are being neglected or physically or sexually abused, then leave it alone.
The only time I would consider reporting is if I suspected abuse.
As for being a mandated reporter, the definition is:
"When a mandated reporter knows or has reason to believe that a child is being neglected or physically or sexually abused by a person responsible for the child's care, or has been so within the previous three years, a report must be made. A person responsible for a child's care includes family members, teachers, day care providers, and coaches, and can include anyone lawfully entrusted with a child's care."
If you don't have any reason to believe that the chilren are being neglected or physically or sexually abused, then leave it alone.
Crystal 07:54 AM 05-23-2011
I find it interesting that many don't consider the "provider" leaving children unnatteneded while she goes outside to smoke a cause for concern. Especially when many have suggested, in other threads, that providers are being negligent when they go right outside to the bus stop....and say themselves that they cannot even take out the garbage during the day because they'd be leaving chil;dren unnattended for a few seconds......
Crystal 07:58 AM 05-23-2011
[quote=DBug;113171]I wouldn't say anything or turn her in unless I had reason to believe there was an abusive or reportable situation happening (ie. proof). I certainly wouldn't want anyone reporting me unless they had a VERY good reason to! [quote]
Certainly no one wants to be reported. Those that care make sure they follow all of the regs.
Certainly no one wants to be reported. Those that care make sure they follow all of the regs.
Gurdy 08:13 AM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I find it interesting that many don't consider the "provider" leaving children unnatteneded while she goes outside to smoke a cause for concern. Especially when many have suggested, in other threads, that providers are being negligent when they go right outside to the bus stop....and say themselves that they cannot even take out the garbage during the day because they'd be leaving chil;dren unnattended for a few seconds......
A cause for concern... Maybe, abuse that we are mandated to report- NO.I find it interesting that many don't consider the "provider" leaving children unnatteneded while she goes outside to smoke a cause for concern. Especially when many have suggested, in other threads, that providers are being negligent when they go right outside to the bus stop....and say themselves that they cannot even take out the garbage during the day because they'd be leaving chil;dren unnattended for a few seconds......
If we had to report everything that we didn't agree with we would be calling the state all the time.
The op doesn't even know that this provider is doing anything wrong!
jen 08:42 AM 05-23-2011
Why is provider in quotes? Is is because she's not licensed? It sort of give them impression that you don't think she is an actual daycare provider?
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I find it interesting that many don't consider the "provider" leaving children unnatteneded while she goes outside to smoke a cause for concern. Especially when many have suggested, in other threads, that providers are being negligent when they go right outside to the bus stop....and say themselves that they cannot even take out the garbage during the day because they'd be leaving chil;dren unnattended for a few seconds......
I find it interesting that many don't consider the "provider" leaving children unnatteneded while she goes outside to smoke a cause for concern. Especially when many have suggested, in other threads, that providers are being negligent when they go right outside to the bus stop....and say themselves that they cannot even take out the garbage during the day because they'd be leaving chil;dren unnattended for a few seconds......
Cat Herder 09:17 AM 05-23-2011
I would most likely try to befriend her with offerings of occasional group play time or shared sprinkler days with picnics.
I would then start talking about contracts, rules, regs and asking how she deals with some of our restrictions.
Our "hoops" have been suspended mid-air and set on fire. 
It would be awesome to have a new best friend!!
I would base my next step on her responses. If she needs help and did not know I would help. If she knew and was going to continue regardless I would mention it to my CCR&R.
At that point the ball would be in their court.
I would then start talking about contracts, rules, regs and asking how she deals with some of our restrictions.
Our "hoops" have been suspended mid-air and set on fire. It would be awesome to have a new best friend!!I would base my next step on her responses. If she needs help and did not know I would help. If she knew and was going to continue regardless I would mention it to my CCR&R.
At that point the ball would be in their court.
Sunshine44 09:44 AM 05-23-2011
I wouldn't report, but I do think it's irresponsible to step outside to smoke...If she has a screen door and is standing at the door smoking and can see the children at all times...ok, whatever. Honestly though, I think smoking in front of children isn't the best idea and I probably wouldn't pick a provider who smoked because I wouldn't want my daughter around it. (I myself used to smoke and quit).
AnythingsPossible 12:40 PM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by momofboys:
Unless you are worried about abuse to me it sounds like you are just being nosey & are concerned she may take business from you? In my state we are not required to be licensed. I wonder how much time you have been spying on her & in so doing are you taking care away from the kids in your care? Just mind your own business unless you suspect something abusive & it doesn't sound like that is the case. She could have some kids who are PT or drop-ins. Having 4 families doesn't mean you are over your limit.
I am not concerned about her taking business away from me as I am currently full as I have consistently been since I opened. As far as being nosey and not paying attention to the children in my care, her drive way is visible from my dining room. When I am at the table supervising breakfast, I see people dropping off and I have seen them picking up. I am not spying on her, just happened to notice. In our state, 4 families does put you over your limit as you can only watch 2 children before being required to have a license. Unless you are worried about abuse to me it sounds like you are just being nosey & are concerned she may take business from you? In my state we are not required to be licensed. I wonder how much time you have been spying on her & in so doing are you taking care away from the kids in your care? Just mind your own business unless you suspect something abusive & it doesn't sound like that is the case. She could have some kids who are PT or drop-ins. Having 4 families doesn't mean you are over your limit.
I guess basically it ticks me off that I have paid the money needed to pay and gone through all the licensing BS to be legal and she hasn't. But I guess to each their own. I will not be reporting her unless I feel the children are in danger. Frankly, nothing would probably be done about it anyway. Why we are required to be licensed when people operate without them all the time and get away with it is beyond me.
Michelle 02:25 PM 05-23-2011
well , one cool reason I love being licensed is, I get big checks from the food program, you can't be in this program if your not licensed.
also, you usually get better clients, and if you take subsidized, you have to be licensed or at least fingerprinted.
I'm glad you're not going to turn her in. Maybe just tell her all the benefits of
being licensed.
also, you usually get better clients, and if you take subsidized, you have to be licensed or at least fingerprinted.
I'm glad you're not going to turn her in. Maybe just tell her all the benefits of
being licensed.
Crystal 04:40 PM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by Gurdy:
A cause for concern... Maybe, abuse that we are mandated to report- NO.
If we had to report everything that we didn't agree with we would be calling the state all the time.
The op doesn't even know that this provider is doing anything wrong!
Well, I don't think I ever said to report everything we don't agree with, some things clearly are reportable and some aren't. In Ca. if I knew someone was operating unlicensed, and something horrible happened and I had failed to report it, I would be in trouble. This happened here when I first started daycare. A woman down the street from me was operating unlicensed and her boyfriend was a registered sex offender. He molested 2 DCK and one of her children before licensing became aware of the situation. SO, HERE you are required to report an unlicensed program.A cause for concern... Maybe, abuse that we are mandated to report- NO.
If we had to report everything that we didn't agree with we would be calling the state all the time.
The op doesn't even know that this provider is doing anything wrong!
Also, here in Ca. it is illegal for a provider to smoke AT ALL, anywhere on the premises, when children are present. So, I'd have to report that too.
The whole point is, if it is ILLEGAL, report it.
Cat Herder 05:47 AM 05-24-2011
Crystal is right. Here it is Illegal to smoke on the property while daycare kids are present. Even my visiting Mother.
It is also Illegal to keep more than 2 children for pay, even if they are related to you, without being registered/inspected/pay fees, have a CDA/TCC and attending mandatory annual training hours.
It is different everywhere, but here what this provider (OP's Post) was doing was completely Illegal. My hope is that she just did not know...
Not everyone thinks of keeping a few neighborhood kids as "Providing Daycare", YKWIM? The CCR&R would simply go over and help her get legal, we even have a toy/equipment lending library
. That is a huge part of what they do.
The provider would only then be in trouble if she continued operating illegally AFTER the resources were offered, here.
It is also Illegal to keep more than 2 children for pay, even if they are related to you, without being registered/inspected/pay fees, have a CDA/TCC and attending mandatory annual training hours.
It is different everywhere, but here what this provider (OP's Post) was doing was completely Illegal. My hope is that she just did not know...
Not everyone thinks of keeping a few neighborhood kids as "Providing Daycare", YKWIM? The CCR&R would simply go over and help her get legal, we even have a toy/equipment lending library
. That is a huge part of what they do. The provider would only then be in trouble if she continued operating illegally AFTER the resources were offered, here.
kidkair 12:03 PM 05-24-2011
Originally Posted by AnythingsPossible:
I am not concerned about her taking business away from me as I am currently full as I have consistently been since I opened. As far as being nosey and not paying attention to the children in my care, her drive way is visible from my dining room. When I am at the table supervising breakfast, I see people dropping off and I have seen them picking up. I am not spying on her, just happened to notice. In our state, 4 families does put you over your limit as you can only watch 2 children before being required to have a license.
I guess basically it ticks me off that I have paid the money needed to pay and gone through all the licensing BS to be legal and she hasn't. But I guess to each their own. I will not be reporting her unless I feel the children are in danger. Frankly, nothing would probably be done about it anyway. Why we are required to be licensed when people operate without them all the time and get away with it is beyond me.
If this really bugs you, why are you letting her get away with it?I am not concerned about her taking business away from me as I am currently full as I have consistently been since I opened. As far as being nosey and not paying attention to the children in my care, her drive way is visible from my dining room. When I am at the table supervising breakfast, I see people dropping off and I have seen them picking up. I am not spying on her, just happened to notice. In our state, 4 families does put you over your limit as you can only watch 2 children before being required to have a license.
I guess basically it ticks me off that I have paid the money needed to pay and gone through all the licensing BS to be legal and she hasn't. But I guess to each their own. I will not be reporting her unless I feel the children are in danger. Frankly, nothing would probably be done about it anyway. Why we are required to be licensed when people operate without them all the time and get away with it is beyond me.