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Old 01-27-2014, 06:24 PM
Willow Willow is offline
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Question CA Providers - Safe Sleep Practices

Wondering if you can clarify, is it ever ok for a provider licensed in your state to allow infants to sleep in "rockers?" (or elsewhere for that matter)

Reason I ask is I ran across a parent in that state who was pretty excited her infant was sleeping so much better in her providers care that way. So excited she went out and purchased on herself for at home.

I thought it was pretty much a nationwide reg that babies are only allowed to sleep in approved cribs/pnp's, flat mattress, empty space but she had me second guessing myself.

I always thought CA was even stricter when it came to that rule than most?


Didn't mean to rain on her parade and I'm hoping I'm wrong, but still felt the need to warn her of the risk. I did link her here to clarify directly but I'm not sure she'll take me up on the offer......thanks for the help if anyone knows
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Old 01-27-2014, 06:34 PM
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Not in CA, just a comment on the nationwide thing. Nowhere in our handbook does it say that babies AREN'T allowed to sleep in a swing/rocker - it only says that babies each have their own pack-and-play with a tightly fitted sheet available - and that they are initially placed on their back to sleep.

It also says that infants are not left in swings/equipment for longer than 30 minutes while awake. I always assumed that it meant that they were allowed to stay in a swing longer than 30 minutes if they were sleeping.


BUT... I was looking through out online database for a referral's number - and I saw that she was written up for letting a baby sleep in a swing. So I called my licensor, and she said it absolutely isn't allowed.

I always felt like OK was the exception to the "only sleeping in a bed" rule, but apparently we aren't.

To be honest... the language of our regulation still confuses me.
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Old 01-27-2014, 06:40 PM
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I'm in CA. From what I understand those baby rockers (I think your talking about one of these) are only "bad" in family child care and against regulation if the child is strapped in (goes against the reg that says that a child cannot be in a device restrained where he/she cannot get out on his/her own. The easy fix and how I get around that is to push the straps through the strap holes and out of the way and not use them. I have never been told that an infant cannot sleep in one HOWEVER that has never come up with me because I don't let infants sleep in them. For me its another alternative to a swing... something safe to put an infant in.

Technically those devices aren't mentioned in the regulations other than the strap thing so if DC provider doesn't use the straps then I can see her getting away with it but it would depend on her licensor. TECHNICALLY the safe sleep thing (back-to-sleep) is a recommendation but it's not actually a licensing regulation, neither is letting an infant sleep in a carseat . Our licensing only specifies no sleeping in swings and no awake time in cribs.

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Old 01-27-2014, 06:50 PM
Willow Willow is offline
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She didn't specify beyond "rocker" MV but that's what I was thinking it was also

I am shocked that it's not written right in the regs because I could have sworn I heard otherwise and multiple times (from Crystal maybe?)

I'm not sure it's in the written regs but both counties I licensed in licensors made it crystal clear babies are never to sleep anywhere but approved/documented beds deemed safe. Even if a peanut would fall asleep in a stroller on a walk that was a no-no. If they showed up for an inspection and a baby was asleep anywhere but it meant a write up, fine, and/or worse.


She seemed so happy with this provider I hated to rain on her parade so again, I really hope I'm wrong.
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Old 01-27-2014, 06:51 PM
Willow Willow is offline
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Originally Posted by blandino View Post
Not in CA, just a comment on the nationwide thing. Nowhere in our handbook does it say that babies AREN'T allowed to sleep in a swing/rocker - it only says that babies each have their own pack-and-play with a tightly fitted sheet available - and that they are initially placed on their back to sleep.

It also says that infants are not left in swings/equipment for longer than 30 minutes while awake. I always assumed that it meant that they were allowed to stay in a swing longer than 30 minutes if they were sleeping.


BUT... I was looking through out online database for a referral's number - and I saw that she was written up for letting a baby sleep in a swing. So I called my licensor, and she said it absolutely isn't allowed.

I always felt like OK was the exception to the "only sleeping in a bed" rule, but apparently we aren't.

To be honest... the language of our regulation still confuses me.

Always clear as mud.....I can't say I miss the anxiety that came along with that lol
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Old 01-27-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MV View Post
I'm in CA. From what I understand those baby rockers (I think your talking about one of these) are only "bad" in family child care and against regulation if the child is strapped in (goes against the reg that says that a child cannot be in a device restrained where he/she cannot get out on his/her own. The easy fix and how I get around that is to push the straps through the strap holes and out of the way and not use them. I have never been told that an infant cannot sleep in one HOWEVER that has never come up with me because I don't let infants sleep in them. For me its another alternative to a swing... something safe to put an infant in.

Technically those devices aren't mentioned in the regulations other than the strap thing so if DC provider doesn't use the straps then I can see her getting away with it but it would depend on her licensor. TECHNICALLY the safe sleep thing (back-to-sleep) is a recommendation but it's not actually a licensing regulation, neither is letting an infant sleep in a carseat . Our licensing only specifies no sleeping in swings and no awake time in cribs.
wow, I'm honestly shocked that CA isn't super strict about safe sleep regs.
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Old 01-27-2014, 06:52 PM
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Infants are to sleep in pack-and-play or crib with tightly fitted sheet. No blankets. Also You can not use bouncer, jumpers or walkers. Swing is OK but if they fall asleep you are to lay them down. Don't know what you mean by Rocker ? Are you talking about the old wood rockers that are low to the ground?
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Old 01-27-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by craftymissbeth View Post
wow, I'm honestly shocked that CA isn't super strict about safe sleep regs.
Me too.

I always read them as strictest on almost all fronts.
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:24 PM
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hey willow, welcome back..

I am in CA...I do believe that it does come down to the grey areas again based on what your licencor would require. I know for a fact that mine is very clear that all infants are only allowed to sleep in cribs or pack and play. all other equipment must be used what it is intended for.

hope this helps. then again if you ask a different licencor, they might tell you different.
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:27 PM
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Step on soap box

CA has the grayist regulations of any state in the union.

Step down.

To my knowledge, the rocker/sleepers are legal. Bouncers/exersaucers are the only thing illegal.

I disagree with MV on the straps, but as always, I could be wrong. Not using the straps for infants on the rocker/sleepers or swings would be a misuse of the product. My 4 mo infant would quickly slip out of my swing if she wasn't restrained.

I also use the straps on my highchairs for safety reasons.
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:44 PM
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Unfortunately I've read this is variable and depends on your contact at licensing, the reasoning and such. When these rules were made this product didn't exist. They can't change really reprint all the regs and make changes based on 1 product. I was told you're not allowed to use basinets and this would be considered the same as that and not allowed BUT someone said their licensor okay'd it with a doctors note for a baby's reflux.
And yes, another part of the gray area is the straps. It's a misuse of the product to not use the buckles but it's against regs to buckle a baby in something "to sleep" in. It's not like a small infant could get out ion their own n a fire anyway, but an older child "buckled/strapped in" is sadly misused by some and prohibited.
I had one for my DS and I loved it! It would be a really great addition to infant care if used properly.
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:59 PM
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My LPA said to always submit a picture of the item to licensing to get clearance because of the always changing products & the lack of black & white. California is the worst... No clear cut yes or no's, which to me is the most disconcerting.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia View Post
Infants are to sleep in pack-and-play or crib with tightly fitted sheet. No blankets. Also You can not use bouncer, jumpers or walkers. Swing is OK but if they fall asleep you are to lay them down. Don't know what you mean by Rocker ? Are you talking about the old wood rockers that are low to the ground?
And see in my area if we were to to use blankets the licensor we have would say something but not write us up. It depends always on your licensor. I've had my baby sleeping on the chaise couch before and she never mentioned it. And yea, we have the grayest of the grey here. It ALWAYS comes down to how your licensor is trained and how understanding they are. Mine will make an observation or a warning and allow you to make the immediate chance for some things and not worry about giving a citation. Like she feels for us but is just doing her job so she's going to let it slide type of thing.
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:05 AM
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If the item is the same that MV posted, I'm fairly sure there is a notice on the product saying it's not intended to be used for sleeping (I believe Cat Herder noticed it the last time someone asked about using the same item for baby sleeping) I realize you all are talking regs here. But we all know that if, heaven forbid, that baby dies while sleeping in the rocker, the state will crucify her because the item specifically states it's not to be used for sleeping. IMO, this is common sense CYA on a providers part, and if a provider really needs a reg to tell them not to sleep an infant in an item that says it not to be used for sleeping... You know where I'm going with that
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Play Care View Post
If the item is the same that MV posted, I'm fairly sure there is a notice on the product saying it's not intended to be used for sleeping (I believe Cat Herder noticed it the last time someone asked about using the same item for baby sleeping) I realize you all are talking regs here. But we all know that if, heaven forbid, that baby dies while sleeping in the rocker, the state will crucify her because the item specifically states it's not to be used for sleeping. IMO, this is common sense CYA on a providers part, and if a provider really needs a reg to tell them not to sleep an infant in an item that says it not to be used for sleeping... You know where I'm going with that
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Play Care View Post
If the item is the same that MV posted, I'm fairly sure there is a notice on the product saying it's not intended to be used for sleeping (I believe Cat Herder noticed it the last time someone asked about using the same item for baby sleeping) I realize you all are talking regs here. But we all know that if, heaven forbid, that baby dies while sleeping in the rocker, the state will crucify her because the item specifically states it's not to be used for sleeping. IMO, this is common sense CYA on a providers part, and if a provider really needs a reg to tell them not to sleep an infant in an item that says it not to be used for sleeping... You know where I'm going with that
Of course the VERY first line in the advertisement of these rockers (from the link MV posted) says "Wonderful sleep spot for newborns with a gentle rocking action"

The first sentence in the description says "The Fisher-Price Newborn Rock 'n Play Sleeper provides a comfortable, safe place for baby to sleep overnight, or a convenient place for baby to relax during the day."
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Of course the VERY first line in the advertisement of these rockers (from the link MV posted) says "Wonderful sleep spot for newborns with a gentle rocking action"

The first sentence in the description says "The Fisher-Price Newborn Rock 'n Play Sleeper provides a comfortable, safe place for baby to sleep overnight, or a convenient place for baby to relax during the day."
I went through to see if I could find the part that was mentioned about it not being meant for sleeping - couldn't find that, but saw the item has been recalled. There are also several one star reviews claiming the chair exacerbates or causes toricollis(sp?) and flat head issues ( to be fair though I believe the back to sleep campaign is responsible for many flat head issues).
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:22 AM
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Okay, so I googled, and found and article that states the item does not meet AAP safe sleeping guidelines. I'd link but I'm in the nap room on my ipad.
Maybe that's what the poster in the other thread was referring to.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:46 AM
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http://pediatricinsider.wordpress.co...-for-sleeping/

recalled due to mold issues:
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2013/...osure-to-Mold/
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:51 AM
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California is clear as mud! On so many issues it's so confusing. I'm fortunate I have an awesome licensor who emails me back (sometimes it takes him a couple of days) and he is very open to questions and offers suggestions. He refers most often to common sense, but also what is the safest and best practices.

Personally I wouldn't use a rocker like that for the baby to sleep in. For the infant I have who is 4 months, she sleeps in a travel lite pack n play (I love it because it's smaller than the standard pack and play but just as sturdy). It's right in the playroom just separated by a gate (so the toddlers can't get to her )so I can always keep my eyes on her. I found putting a sleep machine under it and turning it up fairly loud along with the kids being loud and playing music makes her sleep pretty well.

The parents had her sleeping in a swing at home so it was a transition, so I've gradually gone from just before she falls asleep in the swing to putting her down to sleep to almost not using the swing at all. She's mostly on the floor when not sleeping and is starting to scoot around a few inches and rolling over. I also do tummy time a few times a day as well. I think she's actually happier spending less time in the swing!
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Play Care View Post
I went through to see if I could find the part that was mentioned about it not being meant for sleeping - couldn't find that, but saw the item has been recalled. There are also several one star reviews claiming the chair exacerbates or causes toricollis(sp?) and flat head issues ( to be fair though I believe the back to sleep campaign is responsible for many flat head issues).
Well it's called the Fisher Price Rock N' Play Sleeper and like BC says, the description encourages sleeping in it and says it's good for babies with acid reflux ... wonder why parents think it's ok to have their baby in it 24/7 even for sleeping . Um, no. Not really. I'm not surprised that parents use them for sleeping all of the time. The name, directions and description tells you that's what it's for.

I think that just like any other product similar to this one or meant to contain a child (like excersaucers, bouncy chairs, swings, bumbos etc) people need to use their good judgment and use it in moderation as well as changing their position or allowing movement. If you do that babies won't get flat heads, floppy baby syndrome and you can reduce the chance of sids. Really it's people that use particular items in moderation that create the need for so much regulation. It's the few that affect the many.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MV View Post

I think that just like any other product similar to this one or meant to contain a child (like excersaucers, bouncy chairs, swings, bumbos etc) people need to use their good judgment and use it in moderation as well as changing their position or allowing movement. If you do that babies won't get flat heads, floppy baby syndrome and you can reduce the chance of sids. Really it's people that use particular items in moderation that create the need for so much regulation. It's the few that affect the many.
I do want to speak to this - many people, including myself, either limited or never used "devices" with their babies and *still* wound up with children with flat head issues. I speak out because the prevalent attitude is that if parents just moved baby, held baby and didn't "contain" baby, then baby's head would be round and for many, that simply wasn't true. Both my kids were STTN (in their cribs) by an early age. They napped on their backs as well. When they were awake they were upright, held or on the floor in various positions. Older DD has a really bad flat spot and younger DD also has a small flat spot. The only time they were on their backs for long periods was during sleep. I believe the AAP downplays the issues with flat head caused by back to sleep and is instead trying to push blame on to parents. Or make parents feel shallow when they bring their concerns to the doctor because in their line of thought a flat head is better than a dead baby...When we brought our DD's flat head to the ped's attention, their first line of advice was to limit devices. Gee, hadn't thought of that. Then they told us her head would round out once she was off it - well, perhaps, but not when she sleeps 12-14 hours a night on it...Are there some who keep babies in devices too long? Sure. But most people who have infants spend a lot of time holding baby and keeping baby upright/off their backs while awake. They wear them rather then put them in the stroller or keep them in the infant seat, etc.
The ironic thing is that every parent I know IRL who have kids with perfectly shaped heads (the things I notice) admits to sleeping baby on their tummy (on occasion) from an early age. I'm not saying all people do this, but I'm starting to think it's more common than we think.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:29 AM
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I do want to speak to this - many people, including myself, either limited or never used "devices" with their babies and *still* wound up with children with flat head issues.
I also included "changing positions" but yes sometimes you can still get flat heads. Sometimes babies just favor a particular position.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:23 PM
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I also included "changing positions" but yes sometimes you can still get flat heads. Sometimes babies just favor a particular position.
I meant to include changing positions in my post

I used towels and blankets to try to prop dd on her sides, on the advice of the nurses in the hospital. We made sure to switch sides when we put her in the crib, moved her music thing to different sides so she would turn her head, etc. there's a growing number of us who have done *all* the right things and still have kids with flat heads.
I'm not picking on you, just trying to address the fallacy that if we just did x,y, and z then it wouldn't happen.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:29 PM
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I meant to include changing positions in my post

I used towels and blankets to try to prop dd on her sides, on the advice of the nurses in the hospital. We made sure to switch sides when we put her in the crib, moved her music thing to different sides so she would turn her head, etc. there's a growing number of us who have done *all* the right things and still have kids with flat heads.
I'm not picking on you, just trying to address the fallacy that if we just did x,y, and z then it wouldn't happen.
No offense taken, don't worry. I get it. Sometimes things happen even if we do everything we can think of to reduce the chances of getting any of the above. It's the knuckleheads that I worry about, the ones that don't know any better or that do but don't bother anyway. Those are the ones that ruin it for the rest of us.
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