Illegal providers?

I have SOOOO many Mom's (locally) that I know personally and on FB that I know personally operating illegally. One just came up on my news feed showing 6 kids on one trampoline (without a net) and NONE of those kids are hers, she has an infant (she is out of ratio even for a licensed provider here)


UGH!

I am normally a live and let live person, but I am tempted to turn in several people lately!

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It's a nationwide epidemic. If they seem to be putting kids in danger, turn them in. Sadly, for every one you turn in, two new ones will pop up.

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I would.

I am over the stigma.

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Things can't or won't change until people start minding business that really is our business.

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I would. you should be able to report without giving your name. let the authorities decide what is and is not acceptable. But I would only report if I knew for a FACT what this person was doing. I had one daycare mom that told me that she left a provider that had 16+ kids. I know this provider and she is not licensed for 16, although I am not surprised at all to hear that she is out of ratios. I did not report her because I received this info second hand. I did let the mom know how she could report though, if she felt she should.

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I would and I wouldn't think twice. There are some states that allow unregistered providers, fine but if your going to be one then follow the rules for unregistered providers. I've thought about going unregistered several times. My business would stay the same, I would just have 1 less child and less involvement from the state. In the end (at least for now) I decided that they way child care is going in our country it would be a bad move. Parents want all of the bells and whistles and the good ones are fine with paying for it.
I'm sick of hearing of unregistered providers that charge so little...yeah they can charge so little because they are taking care of twice the amount of kids they are allowed, they don't have to take any trainings or spend all of the money on requirements as registered providers do.
One of my clients came across an unregistered provider when she was having a garage sale. She asked if my client had daycare and then told her that she would watch my clients child for half the price I charge and she lives right around the corner so my client wouldn't have to drive 40 minutes round trip to get to me. Thankfully my client declined her offer.

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That's touchy for me. I operated for many years without a license, didn't know I had to have one.

If I knew that it was a sahm with a couple of kids, no I wouldn't report. If I knew that the children were in a bad situation, without a doubt I would. If I knew that the person had too many kids, yes I would call.

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I'm working so hard to get my license, jumping through all the hoops, getting all the paperwork done, getting the daycare area and my home to code and doing all the courses required. Dang right I would report!! I have worked hard to earn my license and will have earned the right to have 7 children.

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That is how I started, too. I thought if you did not take state money you did not have to register. I signed up for classes and sent in my background check forms like everyone else thinking I was legit. The only problem : No registration # to go with the records check. This was before the internet.

Someone came to the house and told me what I had to do. She brought me the paperwork, gave me tips and was quite sweet. They did not make me close while I was registering, either.

They don't come in like the swat team (that comes later when you re-register ). No worries, really.

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It is a hard choice. I was watching a couple of kids unlicensed for a while - 2-4 kids for a few hours a day. nce I decided to get licensed and after all the paperwork and changes to my home I realized that what I was doing wasn't fair to the licensed providers who put in so much $ and effort in doing things right. Needless to say it irritates me when I see unlicensed providers.

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I don't think there is anything wrong with someone operating without a liscense unless they are way over ratio and the children are in danger...

I would never report another DP just because I thought she might have 1-2 kids more than she can legally have or just because I knew she was unliscenced.

I think if the DCPS trust this DP to provide quality, loving care to their child then it is not up to us to judge.

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I do think there are many cases where SAHMs take a few kids and arent aware of the rules....but lets be honest, there are PLENTY that know good and well what they are doing is wrong or at least they should! I knew one lady that was running close to 20 kids and had two employees in her home. She had to have known that with numbers like that, the state is going to have something to say about it. She finally got reported and scaled back on kids and employees to get within ratio and get licensed....they did not shut her down.

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There is a big difference between being LEGALLY unlicensed and illegal. I have zero issue with anyone who does anything legally.

It's when people are doing things ILLEGALLY that gives everyone a bad name or gets my goat.

As a mandated reporter, I feel it IS my duty to report any situation that could potentially harm or endanger a child. Providing child care ILLEGALLY is exactly that.

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I'm going out on a limb here with you all

I run an illegal daycare. I've been in business for almost 5 years and I am at full capacity with a large Waiting List.

I have over 250 hours of training courses and classes, my CDA, 45-Hour Certificate , and I have a Masters in ECE. I am confident that I am competent and knowledgable when it comes to running a daycare, running a successful business, and caring and loving all my little kids.

I strongly dislike the stereotyping that all illegal providers are, in a sense, undereducated and unfit to care for children.

I am NOT registered or licensed with my state nor will I ever be. I am completely against the state being privy to my business and everything that I do each and every day with my little friends. I will not jump through hoops, I will not have any outside input regarding MY business and I will not answer to the individuals who are not even knowledgable in ECE at all

I currently charge just as much as our local daycare centers. I have worked hard, spent hours upon weeks upon months upon years getting my daycare to be where I want it to be and I will not jeopardize my hard work for anyone.

I've never had a dcparent or potential dcparent inquire about whether or not I am registered or licensed. They could care less once they've seen my daycare.

OP, I feel it isn't anyone else's business , especially other daycare providers, on what I do in my home. This is my LIFE. This is what I was born to do. I will not have anyone mess with something this important just because they feel upset that I don't have to jump through hoop after hoop.

Just be sure you look at all sides before making the call. I can only imagine how devastating losing my business would mean to me.

Hope that gave you another perspective

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What does that show about your ethics, then, if you are deliberately breaking the law? So what if you are born to do this job? Does that make you above the law or above anyone else who is licensed?

I don't care how many degrees you have or how much training you have... you are illegal and now flaunting it to us that you don't give a rat's behind about the laws.

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The speed limit on my road is 30. I truly believe it should be 40. Atleast for me. I have never had a ticket, am a super safe driver and never had an accident or even been pulled over. But the law is the law. So, I drive 30 on my road.

Running an illegal child care IS my business because if (God forbid) should something happen then regulations get tighter and inspectors get a whole lot pickier.

The way you do things DOES effect everyone else and I am saddened that you feel that your education and the quality of your care buys you the right to side step the law.

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I'm not flaunting it I was giving the OP a little bit of behind-the-scenes look at what some illegal daycare providers may be doing. This was directed at the OP which was daycarediva. I wasn't asking for input on MY post.

Daycarediva, I sent you a PM

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I sometimes get lost in the language. By illegal we're talking about a provider that is not licensed but cares for an amount of children that their state laws required them to be licensed/registered for. Right?

I'm legal and unlicensed, because even though I am unlicensed I comply with my states standards of how many DCKs I can have WITHOUT being registered or certified. I also have CPR/First Aid, food handlers, and an ECE degree but I have no interested in getting registered because I am not looking to add any more children to my group. I like my small group! However if my state's requirements changed and allowed less children, i would definitely get registered to be able to keep the kids I have

Maybe the person that you saw was unaware that there were laws regarding how many children they should have? I had no idea what i could and couldn't have when I started but I researched my states requirements to make sure I wasn't doing anything illegal or putting my livelihood (and reputation) on the line. People around me had no idea that we even had different levels of registration (or that you had to be registered at all in some cases) for child care.

Personally I would never be an illegal provider because not only do I think it's just laziness and it comes off (to me anyway) as there's something your hiding that would prevent approval by the state but also think of the liability if something was to happen and it came out you were operating illegally? Yikes!

I agree. Great points.

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Seriously? that's all you got out of my opinion about your illegal daycare... that you were flaunting it? Nothing about your ethics? Or being above the law? And, you're still trying to justify your illegal daycare?

Where I live, a daycare that is out of ratio or illegal will be fined $10,000 a day. That is serious money.

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I'm legally unlicensed too.

I disagree with your second point though. I have just spent the whole day NOT being lazy trying to figure out how to get licensed, only to find that it is NOT ALLOWED to be licensed for more kids in my area because of zoning. So I WANT to follow all the rules, do all the work, have NOTHING to hide, but the county will not allow what the state says IS allowable.

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WOWWWWW! Seriously???

In my area the fine is $100-$500/per child OVER the ratio max and then they tell you to get licensed or reduce your numbers and don't do it again. It's only if you KEEP doing it that you get in big trouble like a felony but you have to be really chronic

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Where I live, we have alot of illegal unlicensed childcare providers, or what I like to refer to them as *babysitters*, because that is what the majority of them are. Yes, I believe there is a difference between an early childhood professional and a babysitter.

I try not to get involved, but I consider myself a child advocate, and when i see some of what is going on in illegal daycare's, it infuriates me. A lady right around the corner from me advertises on CL all the time. I look at her FB page and see all the photos of her daycare kids and worry what might happen. Clearly her house is not childproof. Photos of the kids crawling and hanging all over her dogs. Walking in the neighborhood near, and in the street with the kids running several houses in front of her, where is the safety in that? Photos of the kids with her while she is visiting at her moms house, and at the vets for a vet appointment. Seriously! She insists she is legal, here you can have 4 kids legally without being licensed. Her FB page is like an open book. Her photos have shown 6 small children, not including her own 2 in one photo.

I don't care that in some photos she shows the kids doing some art, smiling, having fun. What I do care about is the safety of these children. If you are going to care for other peoples children, then do it right, and do it legally.

Yes, I'm a child advocate, and I will report if I know for a fact someone is doing this illegally. For the safety of the children, it's the right thing to do.

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I am legally unlicensed - our state does not require it. I guess I wonder why it bothers you so? Do you think the provider is breaking rules or making more $$$?? Even though I am unlicensed I abide by the rules - I only watch 2 family's kids currently and both are PT families, I report my income, etc. Unless you see someone in harm's way I don't really see how/why it is anyone's business. JMHO

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Other than being against the law, I don't really see where a license protects either the child or the provider. It sure doesn't protect the provider against false accusations.

I've seen some really bad licensed providers out there. One had an open trampoline in her front yard - licensing showed up when no one was there. The second one had kids jumping from an upstairs bedroom window onto the roof, then onto the grass. Again, licensing showed up after the kids had left.

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I don't have a PM from you? I do applaud your honesty and thank you for your opinion. I might have a different take on it, had this friend of mine have ANY of those qualifications.

I personally, will not go out of ratios for even ONE day. I make $50/day drop in rate and had the opportunity to take my drop in kid ALL WEEK next week for $250. I said no. With murphy's law (and my luck) that would be the ONE day I had an inspection, or the ONE day (in over 6 years) that something happened to 'my' kids.

Every single one of my families (past and present) have asked about licensing. They also ask about my personal qualifications, and a few have asked for copies of my background check.

I really dislike the intrusiveness of the state (poking around my laundry room with my undies on the dryer drying during a pop inspection was mortifying) but I have absolutely NOTHING to hide. EVER. If the state popped in at ANY time, I feel confident KNOWING that I did my absolute best to maintain the safest environment possible.

q's for ya!

My homeowners ins doesn't cover my daycare and I have separate ins. I HAD to provide a copy of my license to get the ins. Are you insured? My dh was VERY concerned with us being sued and losing everything. I actually am forming an LLC to protect my families assets from my business assets.

What if a family you interviewed with (or have currently) asked about licensing? what if they turned you in?

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I think the providers that are required to be licensed and are, are probably a bit more compliant to the safety measures and regulations that are put in place. We are more up on trainings and new and changing requirements vesus an unlicensed provider.

I think the false accusation thing is a topic all it's own and has alot to do with each state, etc because what happened (or is happening to Kimberli) isn't really something that could happen here as my state has different regulations and rules about that kind of stuff.

You are right though that there are plenty of great licensed and unlicensed providers just as there are lots of really bad ones who are both licensed and unlicensed but at least the ones who are licensed are on the list of facilities to be inspected on a regular basis (whether they are visited or not has nothing to do with the provider) and have a better chance at being caught doing something wrong than the ones who are illegally run.

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More about my friend. My dh and I have known her since grade school. Her dh works labor jobs and they don't make much money. She was working in fast food, and JUST regained custody of her oldest son back from her ex (details are NOT conclusive, he said/she said but she DID lose custody). She and her current husband have two small children (both under 2).

I am a neat freak, but even by anyone's standards, her house is filthy. As in, I wouldn't want to sit down filth. She advertises as a daycare. She boasts all of these great advantages, and one of them is her price range. Legally unlicensed runs from $20-$30/day around here. She is taking infants for $10/day.

Today was the icing on the cake as she posted a picture of 6 kids (all unrelated to her) on a trampoline jumping without a net.

She naps them two-three to a bed.

Ugh, I have to say, I blame the parents.

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I don't think you are lazy at all, i read your post about trying to get licensed for more children but not being able to because of the insane rules and i think that is unfair! Shouldn't the state law out rank your county's individual regulations? The rules your county has are very over the top and make it nearly impossible which isn't fair.

Like you said you are legally unlicensed as well, so you are in fact following the rules set forth by your county. You haven't gone over the numbers you can have and you're doing what you should to try to become licensed. I was talking about the people that don't care and just do what they want regardless of the regulations. I'm sorry if it came off incorrectly!

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BC I do see your point regarding the speed limit! Just because I don't agree with a law, doesn't make it ok for me to break it. (Like kids with rules!)



For instance, I think the DUMBEST daycare regulation in my state is that providers MUST clean the table and spray it down with the proper sanitizing solution after use. I was ALMOST cited when my registrar showed up right after lunch (BRUTAL!) and the table was a MESS. Well, the kids ARE and always WILL BE my priority. Guess what? the TABLE must be cleaned & sprayed before the kids. Even she agreed it was ridiculous. Now I comply, and I get the kids involved cleaning instead of herding them into the bathroom to clean and wash up first.

Stupid rule, but as a licensed provider, I agreed to follow the rules, kwim?

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To further someone's traffic analogy... I have a driver's license. It surely won't protect me against being rear-ended or being hit by a drunk driver. Nor, will it protect me from me being the cause of an accident. But, it keeps track of me, keeps me in the system, and I buy insurance for any unforseen accident. I drive and have a driver's license; it is the law, so I do it. I've been driving for over 30 years, never caused an accident, never had a traffic violation and never been carded. But, I still have a driver's license.

The point is, if you are illegal it is wrong. Where are your morals and ethics? What happened to those qualities? I'm saddened by those who justify having an illegal daycare and disregard the law. It is NOT ok.

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I'm legally unlicensed. And I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to report someone I KNEW was operating over ratio or was putting kids in danger.

Remember, as a childcare provider you are a mandated reporter

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YES! I sent my friend a PM, inquiring if she needed any help treading the daycare waters, or if she wanted to get together to talk shop. We ended up chatting back and forth. She has ZERO intentions of getting licensed.... and she now KNOWS she is WAY out of ratio (even if she WAS licensed)

She has 6 kids + 2 under 2 + her SA son.

In my state the MAX # of kids you can be licensed for is 6+2 SA (only 2 under 2) and you have to have so much sq footage. She DOES NOT.

In my state her SA son doesn't count. Her 2 under 2 DOES. She has 1 other infant.

So, she is over by 2 for a (max) licensed provider. She is over by 4 for for a legally unlicensed provider.

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I am licensed and my morals and ethics are pretty high.

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Honestly, with all your training and credentials and degrees,.I just don't get why you won't operate legally. You dont really say why, except you dont like government oversight. Kind of a head scratcher for me. As.the owner/operator/director of a fully licensed center, the state/county oversight is pretty minimal, and a lot less headache and stress than parents sometimes.

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I agree with this.....

I have to be honest and say that what makes me upset is that because it is illegal,that means that the person is NOT paying taxes. I pay so much in taxes each year that it is not even funny. I would love not to have to pay them, but there is a reason why they are there. I would never be able to sleep at night knowing that I was doing something aganist the law.

What would you do if a child got hurt while in your care? It gets reported? Now what. What happens to the child? Can you get insurance for an illegal business?? Pretty sure you can't. Who is going to pay for this child's injuries? I see so many things that is just so wrong and I am so tired of seeing in my area all of the illegal child cares pop up. UGH...don't get me started.

I once used to think that it was not my business, but it's ruining my business and they made it my business by doing so.

I will say this. When I do see an illegal daycare, I will email them and ask them if they would like me to help them get licensed. Guess what? Every time I am told NO, I just want to make some cash under the table.... Yeah well don't we all............

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OT, I know, but that's not entirely true. I paid taxes before I was licensed. What I didn't do was take all of my deductions that I was entitled to.

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I probably would if I knew all the facts first

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But the difference between you and the poster Sparrow was quoting is that you were unlicensed because you said you weren't aware that you needed to have a license. I am assuming that because you now know that you are required to have one, that is why you got one.

Not being educated on the law, getting educated and then self-correcting is a great set of morals and ethics.

I think Sparrow was commenting on the morals and ethics of someone who was KNOWINGLY breaking the law and not having any intentions of correcting.

Did your friend say why she had no intention of becoming legal? Does she know you are uncomfortable with the fact that she is breaking the law and is risking a lot?

Is the licensing process where you live difficult? Or is your friend simply concerned with just doing what she is doing and that is that?

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I was wondering this as well!

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Okay, I'll be honest here as well. I personally hate the state's involvement but I do understand why it is necessary. I have two locations and one is LEGALLY unlicensed, meaning that I only take up to 3 children at a time. Why? Because I'm a stickler for rules and could not deal with the state being in my primary house.

I started a second location and it is licensed/registered with the state. I personally do not have time to turn in providers but you bet your bottom dollar I would if I knew they were operating over ratio. We would all like to get paid and not pay taxes and take more children to pay more bills but we do not because it is against the law, unsafe, and just may bite you in the end!

I don't think that illegal providers are all lazy (maybe greedy?) but seriously, if you were serious about your craft, you would excel to all levels in your craft which includes licensing of some type. It also brings the market down on what parents feel they should be charged because some parents do not care about overcrowded places -- they just want to pay less. I guarantee you that if there were less of those places, parents would start to see that high quality day care as the norm and would not be as disgruntled about paying for that quality.

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Beining unlicensed DOES NOT mean the person is not paying taxes so please don't lump everyone in that category! I am legally unlicensed & pay taxes on all my daycare income (what little of it is left after all the deductions!!).

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sorry didnt mean to say that eveyrone..I should of stated that I hate it when I come across the ones that do it illegally here in my state so that they don't have to pay taxes...

here in CA you can not have more than one child in your care without a license.

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I wouldn't report unless I felt there was a danger to kids.
I think the law in MI is absolutely ridiculous and it ticks me off. There is no "legally unlicensed" here. To watch even one child you need to be licensed. I think it's crazy that if I wanted my BFF to watch my baby while I worked, that would be illegal here.
I did daycare for years as unlicensed, I didn't know the law. When I found out I got my license. It was a lot of paperwork/inspections...but it doesn't make me a better provider in any way. My parents could care less about it.
There are so many moms advertising on cl everyday. If licensing had the time they could bust them all-but they don't.

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In MN, illegal daycare is when someone provides consistent care to someone. NOT one time events.

That would be considered babysitting here and there are no regulations here for babysitters.

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Yes, I would turn her in even though you've known her for a long time. I would do what was best for the children in her care.

We had an illegal provider here get shut down because she was reported. She advertised on Facebook with pictures of 3 month old infants sleeping on a boppy and in a bouncer chair--both the boppy and bouncer were on a couch. In her ad, she was advertising for up to 3 more infants. So, yes the state investigated and shut her down. She was endangering children.

The knowingly illegal daycares frustrate me, but I generally just vent to my dh about them and don't turn them in. If they are endangering children, then I will not hesitate to turn them in. It's fairly impossible to be legally unlicensed here because the only way to do so is if someone watches up to 2 unrelated children for less than 20 hours (total for both kids--not 20 hours each) a week and not on a regular basis. Thus, it's fairly obvious that the ones not licensed are operating illegally.

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I would report it.

My reasoning goes back to the first year I was licensed and working with children. A lady down the street from me was running an unlicensed daycare, way over ratio AND had a live in boyfriend and a few shady characters who visited. I went about my business, assuming her business was none of mine.

About 6 months goes by and I see the sherriff helicopter flying over my neighborhood. There were news vans all up and down my street. The story was that a daycare on (my street) was operating illegally and none of the adults had had a background check. 3 little girls had been being molested by the DCP's boyfriend for more than a year. A couple of things came to me from that : 1. It is my duty as a Mandated Provider to report ANY situation that might put a child at risk...this was one of those times. 2. I will NEVER forgive myself for not reporting her and stopping what was happening in that house 3. It was really difficult facing parents who showed up early that day.....they saw the news....all they knew was it was a daycare on my street and I was the only one they knew of I could have lost my business.

That Man is still in prison and the DCP did time as well....she KNEW he was molesting these children, including her own daughter.

So Yes, you bet I will report it. In a hot second.

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So, given your reasoning, you would eat at a restaraunt that is not regulated, because the owner SAYS they do everything by the book and assures you that there are no mice or roaches in the kitchen?

I mean, really, if it is okay for daycare, then why should any other business have to follow the laws? You expect them too, right? Really, I wonder how crazy this world would be if there were not regulations to protect children and people in general.

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Yes she was aware that she was illegal and has no plans to rectify that. She gets paid under the table ( she says her parents just take the standardized deduction since it is more than they pay her for FT care anyway).

She claims that one of her reasons were the cost of being licensed. Yes, the classes are $350, first aid/cpr course was $150, the fire extinguisher, the safety laws that her home is NOT even up to city code let alone daycare standards, etc. I tried to link her to the tuition reimbursement application for the classes, offered to GIVE her my spare fire extinguisher and first aid kid, along with a TON of my other supplies. Gave her inexpensive ideas about how to make her home approved (like putting fencing over her glass doors that aren't safety glass, etc) I even told her how I saved $20 from each paycheck when I was legally unlicensed (up to two FT kids, I had one PT and one per diem!) and dowloaded the manual online and started getting to code, then took my cpr/first aid THEN took my class, etc. but she wants to hear none of it. "It's a waste of money, everything the state does is just to rip you off!"

My mother thinks that I should turn her in for welfare fraud as well. My Mom works PT at a local grocery store for 'holiday' money (she's a teacher FT) and this person came through her line buying crap food with food stamps. If she isn't claiming her income to the state, then she isn't claiming it to social services either.

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Wait, so not only is she running an illegal daycare but she is also NOT claiming her income AND collecting welfare?!?!?!

Your mom is right. Turn her in.

Those types of behaviors affect us all and I for one do not like working my butt off 50-60 hours a week to fund someone else's less than ethical behavior!!

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That should be "1 non related family".

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This!

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If I was you I would (if I knew anyone I would too) I mean seriously think of all the time and money that you have invested to have your business open legally. I currently have 3 kids that all came from unlicensed home daycares and the horror stories I have heard are crazy! I know that my licensing agent said that we are able to turn people in through her and we don't have to give our names. Someone from the state will just randomly show up at the person's house for a visit. I know it sounds greedy but I've invested a lot of time and money into my center to make sure I am legal and it would drive me crazy to have one of my gf's running one not licensed!

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I operate legally between my ratios and reporting taxes but I am not licensed and I honestly have no desire to be. I started up in March and I have been having such a hard time getting spots filled because there are so many providers in my area that I'm wondering if this is really something I want to struggle with long term. I love being home. I want nothing more than to continue it but I just can't get past this struggle.

I'm stressed right now because I know I will be losing half of what I do have next fall because they are older and going in to preschool. I've already had my last full time spot open since March as it is. It's frustrating. I don't want to go through the licensing process. The calls are already not coming in.

Every state has different regulations on how many kids per adult. I don't know that I would personally classify number ratios as frustration over a "safety" concern unless the person is drastically over numbers. Someone who takes on one or two extra does not bother me.

Personally, I just feel like it's crossing a line to get all worried about someone who is just a couple over and call it a safety concern. I don't think people in California can handle different numbers than people in Minnesota verses Indiana or Maryland (random examples since I don't know the ratios for the other states). Everyone's tolerance level in what they can handle is different. I don't feel the state they live in makes a difference in the tolerance level. There are laws and we should all follow them but if they are not following them then I think (provided a child is not in true danger) that should and will come out in it's own way. Personally I don't understand people who watch crazy amounts of kids. I would not want more than the few that I have.

I've known and seen a couple of people operate illegally from a ratio aspect and they ran a pretty decent educational and safe program despite the number of kids they had. People on here state they run legally with 7+ kids and I don't think a license gives you that tolerance level. It is true they go through a lot to get that license to ensure that they do but again I don't feel that all of that determines a person's ability. Other providers just want it monitored. Provided I don't see anything that sets off true major safety red flags to me personally it's not something I get in the middle of. If something happens to them, that is on them.

On the other hand I am frustrated because I do follow the ratio laws and every person starting up a business around here makes a difference in my businesses (or lack there of). Even the stay at home moms who take a couple for supplemental extra money. I'm not about to shut someone else down but I'm conflicted in my desire to keep this going. It has changed so much over the years from when my mother did this. She put an ad up and got calls left and right and it's not like that anymore.

Half of my other reason I'm conflicted in keeping this going is because of how much you get trampled all over and disrespected by the parents. Which I knew was part of the job... but if the calls aren't coming in easily to replace people it's not very easy to be firm on your rules because you can't replace a family or families who just decide they are going to take it upon themselves to pick up a half an hour after close everyday. They will go somewhere else where the hours are different because there are clearly a lot of other options out there but at the same time, you still have to pay the bills.

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I called and reported her. My registrar knew it was me (yay caller ID & calling her work cell) but she said it's anonymous. She will be stopping there TODAY since she will be in the area. She is going to call social services for possible welfare fraud herself.

The more I thought about it, the angrier I got and honestly she is intentionally breaking the law, knowingly putting kids in harms way and flaunting it. What does she expect?

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Brookeroo, well said! I don't disagree with PPs though that when you have to work really hard to get licensed it's insulting when others don't follow the rules and do it illegally. But you're making a different point and I love it.

It is true. Just because Ohio says everyone can have 6 kids legally unlicensed doesn't mean that everyone in Ohio can handle that many. Some people should only have 4 max. Other people might be able to handle 8. I have 6, but I feel I could easily handle 8. When I was a classroom teacher, I had 29 kindergarteners. That's right, 29!!!

But that also goes back to Blackcat's post about speed limits. Just because everyone is allowed to drive 65 max, doesn't mean that everyone should! Some people only feel comfortable going 50! Some people might be pro racecar drivers and could handle going 80.

However, it does come down to the final say of these are the rules wherever you live and order is kept by having everyone follow them, even if they are arbitrary at times.

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Good job daycarediva! Let us know what happens!

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No matter what happens YOU DID THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!

Children in unsafe situations need a voice! Parents don't always know the rules and guidelines so they may have been unknowingly placing their child in dangerous situation.

Even if she was the absolute best, most caring, most educated provider in the world....she was still operating ILLEGALLY!

You did the right thing and and the end of the day you should feel good about your choice.

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True but at the same time in some states (like mine) operating without a license is not illegal either but people are still scoffing at that as well. We are still within the law.

I get that it's more work. I respect what those people go through and I get how important that is to those people but I'm still within the law. It's a matter of choice. In my case for example, I don't want to be harassed by the state and have my already struggling business put in jeopardy because another provider around the corner assumed I would be over my ratio if I took on that last spot because she sees my number of kids in my care when in fact one is my daughter, my son is here part of the week when he's not in preschool and the other is my nephew and they may have no idea about that. My neighbors don't know me or my situation. You know what they say about assuming...

I've just taken on a part timer to fill the spot of the full time special needs child I lost. I wasn't planning on taking anything other than full time from now on but I have to make ends meet. I get lots of calls for part time! Can't say I haven't considered taking more part timers along with my crew right now honestly but if a full timer came along I would have to cut someone and I don't think that's good business...

With as many spots as I'm looking at having to fill later and how long it's taking to fill them I have felt like I can't take my posting down once the spot is filled. So do I take on a few part timers putting me over to get me by and keep them until I lose the others? It's hard not to consider if you should take extra on to compensate for what you will be losing in some cases. I haven't pulled that trigger but what do you do? When you only have 5 and you are looking at losing probably 3 and two of those are full time...you have to prepare for that. The ratios are hard to work with sometimes.

It's definitely not working out the way I envisioned.

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This in my opinion was a good choice.

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No one is dissing anyone who is LEGALLY unlicensed.

The debate isn't whether anyone has a license or doesn't have one or if they should or shouldn't get one.

The issue is ILLEGALLY operating.

NOT ok, in any state, in any form, for any reason.

Providers who operate within the law, whether legally unlicensed or legally licensed ALL rock!!!

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You did the right thing. Being the voice for the voiceless, thank you!

Using the trampoline with 6 kids at one time and no net, is just ONE reason I would have reported her. Here, we are not even allowed to use a trampoline, and if one is on the property, it has to be fenced off, just like a pool would be.

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This is exactly another reason why I have zero desire to get licensed. My mom said there is a book about the size of a telephone book full of stuff exactly like this that you have to follow. I have no desire to put up with this kind of nonsense, let alone having someone breathe down your neck while you are doing it, on top of the on going cost involved.

Kudos to all of you that do it. I respect you for it but ... nooo thank you!

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Now that I look back at the comments they weren't directed at unlicensed legal providers but I must have been reading into some of the conversations taking place. Some of the comments about illegal providers not becoming licensed could also be said for legal unlicensed providers by way of laziness (i.e. if you are truly following the laws, why wouldn't you just get licensed?) ect...

I would quote the comments but I won't get into that. It wasn't intended. I felt (at the time) like it was directed over all at unlicensed people.

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Way to go, I would have reported this as well! It needed to be done! Let us know what happens!

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Brookeroo (and anyone else legally unlicensed) I have NO problem with anyone doing childcare LEGALLY, licensed or not. I was legally unlicensed for 2 years (and STILL have what I refer to as my OC, original client)

A very good friend of mine/SAHM is legally unlicensed, has two kids (max for our state) and is like a second mom to those kids, I honestly wish she would get licensed because she is GOOD at this & would/could take on more kids if she had a license.

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What was she supposed to get? You made a comment that stated your opinion. Said/Done. No one has to change based on anyone's opinions. If you operate legally and you're fine with that great. If those who chose to do it differently are fine with the risks, it's on them. They know what they're getting into, just like you when you decided to go the legalized route. If the children are in obvious harm's way that's also a different story. Nonetheless, sweep around your own front doors. Take 6 months to mind your own business and 6 months to leave other folks' alone.

Blessings...

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I guess if you don't understand that running an illegal daycare is unethical and wrong by now, then you never will. I'm not going to defend this again. And heading your post "it's your prerogative" to break the law. NO, you don't have the 'right' to break the law just because you don't agree with it.
Whatever you mean by taking 6 months to mind my own business and 6 months to leave other folks alone is lost on me. And, frankly, your opinion doesn't really affect my opinion as you're hiding in the land of unregistered. For all I know, you're a troll trying to get a rise out of me, unsuccessfully, I might add.

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