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Daycare and Taxes>How is Everyone's Luck with EIDL, PPP, Unemployment?
Daycarefamily 12:56 PM 05-03-2020
We applied for the EIDL grant/loan on 3/30 first thing in the morning, still haven't got anything. SBA reps told us there was issues with the forms submitted on 3/29 and 3/30. They suggest to be patient. Congress did send a letter to the SBA last week suggesting that they start complying with the law as it was written. Congress wrote that they will continue to fund the program as needed. Maybe we will all get it eventually.

DC owner applied for unemployment, currently makes too much to qualify for state unemployment therefore not eligible for PUA even though we lost 70% of our income. This doesn't seem right to me, is this true?

Ironically we did get approved for $5200 of PPP. This will be fully spent on payroll (we have 2 employees) and 8/52 of last years profit. We had to open a business account which is fine, costs $10 a month. Don't want to spend on professional payroll services but am concerned about what records are going to be needed for forgiveness. I have Tom's KidKare but it doesn't do payroll that I can tell.

Does anyone know of an inexpensive payroll service?
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sahm1225 05:41 PM 05-03-2020
How can you make too much to qualify for unemployment?
Itís not cheap, but I use Intuit. Itís about $49/month with 2 employees. I love it though because I can pay my taxes through it and print w2s.
I applied for the EIDL on 4/02 and havenít heard back either
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MyAngels 05:56 AM 05-04-2020
I applied for the EIDL on 4/8 and received an email late last week saying basically we'll get to you when we get to you.

My state hasn't even implemented the PUA yet, but is suggesting self employed go ahead and apply for unemployment and be denied so if they ever get around to implementing it we'll qualify.

I applied for PPP last week through my local credit union and haven't heard back other than the due to high volume spiel.

So, not much luck here with any of the things that are supposed to help the self employed
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284878 06:25 AM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by sahm1225:
I applied for the EIDL on 4/02 and havenít heard back either
I have a provider friend that applied on 4/3 and found a deposit in her account on 4/30 for $1000 for EIDG. Have you checked your account?
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MyAngels 06:36 AM 05-04-2020
I spoke too soon - I applied for the EIDL on April 8th and $1000 showed up in my account this morning.
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Annalee 06:39 AM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
I spoke too soon - I applied for the EIDL on April 8th and $1000 showed up in my account this morning.
Mine, too

I'm assuming this is a grant and doesn't need repaid?

Anyone know the answer to that?
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284878 06:45 AM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by Daycarefamily:
We applied for the EIDL grant/loan on 3/30 first thing in the morning, still haven't got anything. SBA reps told us there was issues with the forms submitted on 3/29 and 3/30. They suggest to be patient. Congress did send a letter to the SBA last week suggesting that they start complying with the law as it was written. Congress wrote that they will continue to fund the program as needed. Maybe we will all get it eventually.

DC owner applied for unemployment, currently makes too much to qualify for state unemployment therefore not eligible for PUA even though we lost 70% of our income. This doesn't seem right to me, is this true?

Ironically we did get approved for $5200 of PPP. This will be fully spent on payroll (we have 2 employees) and 8/52 of last years profit. We had to open a business account which is fine, costs $10 a month. Don't want to spend on professional payroll services but am concerned about what records are going to be needed for forgiveness. I have Tom's KidKare but it doesn't do payroll that I can tell.

Does anyone know of an inexpensive payroll service?
EIDL - Tom said something about having to reply if you applied in x date in March. So check with Tom to see if you have to reapply.

UIA - I think it is based on your schedule C amount, the after expenses, and deductions. So it is possible that you make too much for that. Of course, you could try and reapply using your income after deductions.

PUA- Is being given to people that have not worked in a year. (no income at all in 2019) So I say apply to PUA, the worst that can happen is you get denied.

PPP- If you have employees, how are you currently paying them?

Wave is free (for invoices at least) they have a payroll section but I have never used it. (Payroll looks free too) https://next.waveapps.com/ddf2e4a7-c.../payroll/setup

(It is not Tom's Kidkare, he just partners with them to promote each other.)

FYI - I have 2 different Biz accounts now (one I just opened for the PPP loan) Both through my Credit Unions, neither have a fee.
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284878 06:48 AM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
I spoke too soon - I applied for the EIDL on April 8th and $1000 showed up in my account this morning.
Originally Posted by Annalee:
Mine, too

I'm assuming this is a grant and doesn't need repaid?

Anyone know the answer to that?
Did it show up as EIDL or EIDG?

My friends came as EIDG, thinks the G means grant.
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MyAngels 06:54 AM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by Annalee:
Mine, too

I'm assuming this is a grant and doesn't need repaid?

Anyone know the answer to that?
It is forgivable, but I think you have to spend it on certain expenses for it to be forgiven. I know payroll and mortgage payments are allowed, and I'm sure there are more expenses that qualify too.
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Annalee 07:11 AM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by 284878:
Did it show up as EIDL or EIDG?

My friends came as EIDG, thinks the G means grant.
It's in my account and was deposited from Federal funds. I have contacted my bank for clarification and awaiting a response.
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Annalee 07:25 AM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by Annalee:
It's in my account and was deposited from Federal funds. I have contacted my bank for clarification and awaiting a response.
My bank said it is from the EIDL and NOT an SBA loan through my bank. He said they have not had any approvals for SBA loan from my bank. So I'm assuming this is a forgiveable EIDL from the government??
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Annalee 07:34 AM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by Annalee:
My bank said it is from the EIDL and NOT an SBA loan through my bank. He said they have not had any approvals for SBA loan from my bank. So I'm assuming this is a forgiveable EIDL from the government??
And the SBA/EIDL dept said I would receive an email in about a week letting me know how much of a loan I could get but I could deny the loan. But the $1000 did not have to be paid back!
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sahm1225 11:31 AM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by 284878:
I have a provider friend that applied on 4/3 and found a deposit in her account on 4/30 for $1000 for EIDG. Have you checked your account?
Yea and nothing from the EIDL. But Great news is the PPL came through! I had about 2 more weeks left before Iíd have to stop paying the employees so Iím so grateful!
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Annalee 11:35 AM 05-04-2020
Clarification: Mine does say EIDG. When I pulled it up on my computer I could see that much better than on my phone.
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AmyKidsCo 01:16 PM 05-04-2020
Called our CU this morning and am approved for PPP!

She thought I would've been notified before now because we only have 10 days from approval to sign the forms and get them back. So now I'm freaked out that I won't get them in time.

I applied for PUA too, but still need to send my paperwork in.
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TomCopeland 01:24 PM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by Annalee:
Mine, too

I'm assuming this is a grant and doesn't need repaid?

Anyone know the answer to that?
You do not have to repay the EIDL money. It's a forgivable loan.
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TomCopeland 01:26 PM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
It is forgivable, but I think you have to spend it on certain expenses for it to be forgiven. I know payroll and mortgage payments are allowed, and I'm sure there are more expenses that qualify too.
You can spend the EIDL money on any business expense you want. You can spend the PPP money on payroll for yourself as well as mortgage loan interest/rent, utilities and credit card/car loan interest.
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Annalee 03:44 PM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by TomCopeland:
You do not have to repay the EIDL money. It's a forgivable loan.
Thanks!
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dolores 09:27 AM 05-05-2020
Applied for PPP through my bank last month and (surprise!) funds were deposited into business account yesterday. At least 75% must be spent on payroll and the rest on specified overhead expenses for it to be forgiven. I have 2 employees so this will help pay them until we reopen...hopefully by June. I'm in New York
I've been using ADP for umpteen years. They're not that inexpensive. I've stayed because they're established, provide great service and handle all of my payroll needs. One less thing to agita over.
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daycarediva 10:12 AM 05-05-2020
Update- received 1,000 deposited into my account this morning from the EIDL.

Used it to immediately pay off my business credit card, as I have been carrying a monthly balance on it since this started. I do NOT carry debt, so a HUGE sigh of relief, and enough to cover my expenses for the next month until my June enrollments begin.
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Snowmom 10:18 AM 05-05-2020
I applied for the EIDL grant in March and then again in April (around the 7th) and still haven't seen or heard anything beyond the general "we have a high volume... yada yada".

I did apply for UI/PUA and was paid last week for 4/6-4/24.
Then this past Friday, I received PPP funding.
I don't have a clue on how to prove payroll for myself going forward.
I obviously won't claim UI for last week or going forward, but don't know how that works with PPP. I assume (from the PayPal wording of the loan) that it's 8 weeks of payroll going forward, not retroactive. Otherwise, I would have just kept doing UI instead. But of course, nothing is clear when it comes to the government.

Tom, do you have any idea how UI and PPP affect one another?
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AmyKidsCo 12:51 PM 05-05-2020
Faxed my PUA paperwork in last night.

Still waiting for PPP paperwork. If it's not here by Thursday I'm going to call and offer to pick it up from their drive-up window. Our CU is within walking distance of our house!
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284878 08:13 AM 05-06-2020
I got the ppp loan, waiting on the paperwork.
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TomCopeland 10:50 AM 05-06-2020
Originally Posted by Snowmom:
I applied for the EIDL grant in March and then again in April (around the 7th) and still haven't seen or heard anything beyond the general "we have a high volume... yada yada".

I did apply for UI/PUA and was paid last week for 4/6-4/24.
Then this past Friday, I received PPP funding.
I don't have a clue on how to prove payroll for myself going forward.
I obviously won't claim UI for last week or going forward, but don't know how that works with PPP. I assume (from the PayPal wording of the loan) that it's 8 weeks of payroll going forward, not retroactive. Otherwise, I would have just kept doing UI instead. But of course, nothing is clear when it comes to the government.

Tom, do you have any idea how UI and PPP affect one another?
You provide payroll for yourself by writing a check to yourself each week or transfer money from one bank account to another. The PPP money should be reported as income to unemployment spread over 8 weeks in equal amounts going forward. See my article on this: http://tomcopelandblog.com/apply-for...day-april-27th
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AmyKidsCo 11:42 AM 05-06-2020
Originally Posted by TomCopeland:
You provide payroll for yourself by writing a check to yourself each week or transfer money from one bank account to another. The PPP money should be reported as income to unemployment spread over 8 weeks in equal amounts going forward. See my article on this: http://tomcopelandblog.com/apply-for...day-april-27th
If I'm getting the PPP I'm not eligible for PUA, correct? I've already applied for PUA, so if approved I assume there's a way to decline it?
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bklsmum 11:56 AM 05-06-2020
I applied for EIDL and have gotten the 1000 grant so far and waiting to hear on the loan.

I am getting self employed unemployment.

I applied for PPP but since I am a sole proprietor with a low income I only got approved for $1350. Anything helps though so I took it.
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BoysMom 01:24 PM 05-06-2020
I just got notification that I've been paid six weeks of unemployment, but no mention of how/where that payment is. Anyone familiar with CA unemployment payouts?
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TomCopeland 10:40 AM 05-07-2020
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
If I'm getting the PPP I'm not eligible for PUA, correct? I've already applied for PUA, so if approved I assume there's a way to decline it?
If you get unemployment and PPP, you would report the PPP as income divided over 8 weeks. This may or may not disqualify you for unemployment for those 8 weeks. After that you can continue to get unemployment. See my article on this: http://tomcopelandblog.com/apply-for...day-april-27th
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AmyKidsCo 12:36 PM 05-08-2020
Originally Posted by TomCopeland:
If you get unemployment and PPP, you would report the PPP as income divided over 8 weeks. This may or may not disqualify you for unemployment for those 8 weeks. After that you can continue to get unemployment. See my article on this: http://tomcopelandblog.com/apply-for...day-april-27th
Thanks! I had read that article but missed the part about getting unemployment after the 8 weeks.
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Daycarefamily 07:42 PM 05-23-2020
Update.

We received $2,000 EIDL Grant.
We received $24,600 EIDL loan.

We received the EIDL loan after the PPP loan. Not sure if we can roll it in to the PPP now. Anyone attempt this?

We will be using ALL funds towards payroll. It will pay payroll for the next year or so. We will use income from the business for all other expenses.

Kind of wish we didn't get the EIDL grant because it just subtracts from PPP forgiveness. Seems banks want to just get the whole PPP forgiven and off their books.
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TomCopeland 09:36 AM 05-24-2020
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
If I'm getting the PPP I'm not eligible for PUA, correct? I've already applied for PUA, so if approved I assume there's a way to decline it?
Getting the PPP may or may not make you ineligible for unemployment benefits. Each state is different as to how much you can earn and still be eligible for unemployment. You can always stop filing weekly unemployment benefits if you would be better off with the PPP money.
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nanglgrl 10:10 AM 05-26-2020
I would like to know the answer to this question as well. I received the PPP in the first round about 6 weeks ago, received the EIDL about a week ago and then received the grant attached to the EIDL a few days ago.

I applied for the EIDL on March 22nd using the long form and then reapplied using the website on April 2nd. I applied for the PPP around 4/5 when they opened up to small businesses but it didnít start processing until they opened it to sole props.

Itís a lot of money however, when you look at my losses so far and the losses I will experience throughout this year I imagine I will come out even.

Unfortunately I donít think my PPP will be forgiven at all due to how the bank calculated the amount and, as a sole proprietor, how they determine the pay for forgiveness. Basically, I had the right number on my forms, the bank looked at my taxes and used my self employment income and the small income I received from a second job instead of the slightly lower amount on my schedule C. Since they use the amount from the schedule C for forgiveness and havenít allowed sole props to pay ourselves more (Iím working longer hours so I should be able to but no) it will be impossible for me to say 75% went to my payroll. When I saw what was approved I thought I had done it wrong (I trusted the professional), when I discovered how they had come to the wrong amount I emailed them to figure out options but havenít heard back.

Originally Posted by Daycarefamily:
Update.

We received $2,000 EIDL Grant.
We received $24,600 EIDL loan.

We received the EIDL loan after the PPP loan. Not sure if we can roll it in to the PPP now. Anyone attempt this?

We will be using ALL funds towards payroll. It will pay payroll for the next year or so. We will use income from the business for all other expenses.

Kind of wish we didn't get the EIDL grant because it just subtracts from PPP forgiveness. Seems banks want to just get the whole PPP forgiven and off their books.

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TomCopeland 10:58 AM 05-26-2020
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
I would like to know the answer to this question as well. I received the PPP in the first round about 6 weeks ago, received the EIDL about a week ago and then received the grant attached to the EIDL a few days ago.

I applied for the EIDL on March 22nd using the long form and then reapplied using the website on April 2nd. I applied for the PPP around 4/5 when they opened up to small businesses but it didnít start processing until they opened it to sole props.

Itís a lot of money however, when you look at my losses so far and the losses I will experience throughout this year I imagine I will come out even.

Unfortunately I donít think my PPP will be forgiven at all due to how the bank calculated the amount and, as a sole proprietor, how they determine the pay for forgiveness. Basically, I had the right number on my forms, the bank looked at my taxes and used my self employment income and the small income I received from a second job instead of the slightly lower amount on my schedule C. Since they use the amount from the schedule C for forgiveness and havenít allowed sole props to pay ourselves more (Iím working longer hours so I should be able to but no) it will be impossible for me to say 75% went to my payroll. When I saw what was approved I thought I had done it wrong (I trusted the professional), when I discovered how they had come to the wrong amount I emailed them to figure out options but havenít heard back.
I'm not aware of any SBA rule that says you can't spend more on payroll for yourself than indicated by your Schedule C. The total they used from Schedule C determined how much you can get from the PPP. It doesn't limit how much you can use for payroll on yourself. Ask the bank for a rule that says you are limited on how much you can pay yourself.
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nanglgrl 11:20 AM 05-26-2020
Originally Posted by TomCopeland:
I'm not aware of any SBA rule that says you can't spend more on payroll for yourself than indicated by your Schedule C. The total they used from Schedule C determined how much you can get from the PPP. It doesn't limit how much you can use for payroll on yourself. Ask the bank for a rule that says you are limited on how much you can pay yourself.
I got this information from articles explaining the final interim rules for forgiveness: The amount of loan forgiveness requested for owner-employees and self-employed individualsí payroll compensation can be no more than the lesser of 8/52 of 2019 compensation (i.e., approximately 15.38 percent of 2019 compensation) or $15,385 per individual in total across all businesses. See 85 FR 21747, 21750. Schedule C filers are capped by the amount of their owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit.

Please tell me itís wrong!
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TomCopeland 10:06 AM 05-27-2020
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
I got this information from articles explaining the final interim rules for forgiveness: The amount of loan forgiveness requested for owner-employees and self-employed individualsí payroll compensation can be no more than the lesser of 8/52 of 2019 compensation (i.e., approximately 15.38 percent of 2019 compensation) or $15,385 per individual in total across all businesses. See 85 FR 21747, 21750. Schedule C filers are capped by the amount of their owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit.

Please tell me itís wrong!
It is not wrong. So, if your 2019 Schedule C profit was $50,000, the maximum amount you can receive from PPP is $10,416 ($50,000 divided by 12, then multiplied by 2.5). Of that, 75% must be used for your own payroll, or $7,812, well under the $15,385 limit. You would have to have a 2019 profit of almost $100,000 before you would exceed the $15,385 limit, so this isn't an issue for most providers.
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AmyKidsCo 12:48 PM 05-27-2020
Tom, where do the rules say that you can't use more than 75% for payroll? I've seen several places where it says you must use at least 75%, but not that you can't use more than 75%. My lender told me I could use 100% for payroll. They also told me that they'd be contacting me 6-8 after I received it so I should try to distribute it in 6 weeks.
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MyAngels 07:06 PM 05-27-2020
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
Tom, where do the rules say that you can't use more than 75% for payroll? I've seen several places where it says you must use at least 75%, but not that you can't use more than 75%. My lender told me I could use 100% for payroll. They also told me that they'd be contacting me 6-8 after I received it so I should try to distribute it in 6 weeks.
They have a special rule for self-employed individuals that caps the amount that can be used as payroll at 8/52 of the net profit amount of your 2019 schedule C. You can read it in their newest "Interim Rule" here (page 11): https://home.treasury.gov/system/fil..._QFPBVlKARj4mw

I have also heard some people say that banks will have some latitude in the forgiveness decisions, so if your bank is telling you something different you should document that in case there is an issue when it comes time to get this forgiven
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AmyKidsCo 12:27 PM 05-28-2020
Thanks MyAngels. Now I wish I remembered who I spoke to at our bank.
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