I have said I have a "high maintenance" group. Usually I get one big personality and the rest sort of balance that kid out. Every child in my group is that kid

I have looked at some of NannyDe's youtube videos and have tried to implement some of the new "rules" I am trying to train the kids not to go in my main foyer - can't gate it off so used her technique of tape on the floor. I *still* have kids pushing it months after it's been a rule

I have taught them to stay in my yard as it's unfenced (completely legal and the way my home is I am comfortable with it - even if they run to the field they won't get far). Today while playing ball with the toddler, the preschoolers took off running into the next field Obviously I caught them immediately but it seems that they are always pushing it.

They are WILD with running in the house, two handing the trucks and going wild (I've tried the one handed seated play and it's not working)

In addition my dck's have taken to arguing back every time I remind them of a rule. Nothing like saying "Walking feet!" only to have a 4 yo yell "I WASN'T RUNNUNG!" Obviously that's an immediate TO, where they proceed to cry and scream as if I was beating them

I've taken many toys OUT, I've reminded, redirected, punished. I can't NOT get rid of everyone, and it IS everyone. I am going to be getting rid of some of the kids which should help the dynamic. Individually all these kids can be awesome. And honestly, I do think I am some of the problem I feel as though I'm pulled in so many directions that it's almost impossible to be consistent. At the same time, how many times do I have to repeat myself?!

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how many kids do you have and what ages? My first thought is that you just have too many kids.....

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I only have 5 Ft kids. Two 4 yo's, two 3 yo's and one 2 yo.
I've had other years with the same numbers and much better days.
Oh, the the preschoolers all go to preschool - so three mornings a week the 4 yo's are not here and two days a week the 3 yo's are at school...

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Just a thought, but maybe it is one child causing the others to be "amped up"

When I first started it was actually my nephew. I started noticing that if he was gone a day miraculously everyone was well behaved for the most part. When I started to REALLY pay attention I noticed he was very sneakily getting others to misbehave/act crazy. Then he would just it there and look perfect while they got in trouble. I think he was jealous that HIS aunt was not just his anymore (he is the only child under 12 on both sides of the family).

Unfortunately I dont know how to fix this issue, I ended up asking her to find alternate care for him and almost overnight the kids turned into the great kids they are on their own. They have moved onto K now and I still miss that group of littles!

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Sounds like my group at the moment (well, half of them). The other half I could clone most days.

I have a very set schedule and will remove a child from an entire activity if they act up. eg. We were doing a color sorting center today, dcb threw the legos we were sorting. I warned him that if he threw them again, he would be excused from the table for a TO and could not participate in dance and would have to color at the table. He looked right at me, laughed and threw the legos. He got a TO, and he went right to the table during dance. He cried the ENTIRE 20 minutes.

He tells me NO multiple times before complying and then will rarely comply without a threat or a bribe. It has been reinforced at home (not listening the first time) so there is not much I can do to change it. He is WAY better for me than his parents. I have seen his mother try to bribe him to hold still to put his shoes on, ridiculous. The back and forth, the wishy washy threats, the half a&&ed bribes, the no follow through. I have even been very blunt with them and they have said "He's only 3.5!"

I also sent a note home last month and bulleted my biggest behavioral issues. I warned parents that it was disrupting our learning and schedule. I also told them that if it persisted, they would be getting a separate behavioral intervention plan home. This dcb got it. If he gets 3 time outs in a day, I send home. It has DRASTICALLY changed his behavior because his parents don't want to pick him up daily. I don't give TOs all the time for everything, hitting or blatant disrespect. I ALWAYS give them a second change to change their behavior. The parents backed me on it (since I gave them the problem to manage!) and they have reinforced that if he needs to be picked up, he gets NO tv and NO ipad that day at all.

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Also, I think lack of sleep has a HUGE impact on my group. They don't all have set bedtimes, so I have had to send home for falling asleep during circle and not being able to wake up to go outside before.

The little guy I mentioned above is AWFUL every Monday because he WILL NOT nap for them and they think since he is WOUND UP, he doesn't NEED SLEEP. He ALWAYS takes a 3+ hour nap on Mon/Tue.... by Friday he is a GREAT kid, down to a 90m nap on his own and happy/polite all day. Monday morning we repeat the cycle.

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Sit back and observe them all as a group and pick out one that is "the worst" and keep that one close to you at all times. You may be surprised and find out that it's really one one or two that aggravate a situation.

Shadowing and working with, correcting and guiding one child one on one can help teach the proper way to follow the rules. Pick ONE thing to focus on correcting and deal with that issue until you see improvements THEN move on to the next issue. If you see no improvement and you're pulling your hair out then think about terming the ONE child and replacing just the one. Sometimes removing or working with one child changes the ENTIRE dynamic of the group and sometimes you'd be surprised to find out that the child you thought was starting things is really only reacting another child that is "fueling the fire".

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Some good suggestions so far!

Just some things that come to mind to me.

-Could there be too many rules?

-As someone else said, are they tired? If so, you might want to institute another short rest time of some sort.

-I like what someone said about sending home a note and if a particular child keeps doing the same thing to send them home. You should only have to do that once.

-Could you have someone observe you and your children? Our resource and referral agency will do this. I did it once. They send an 'expert' out and observe and give you their recommendations. I think I remember that you have a sub. Could she come one day just to watch and see if she sees something that could be done differently. Sometimes someone else can see something you can't especially when you are in the thick of things and she isn't.

-Since the children are older, you might ask them. Could you tell me why you ran out of the yard? What activities would you like to do? I just say this because when I was first starting out (and I know you're not) I had a lot of activities that they just didn't like. I had athletic children rather than artsy children so I had to adapt.

-When we had problems at a preschool I worked at, the teacher got a bunch of those Fisher Price Little People and re-enacted what our problems were with the dolls. She did sharing, not following rules, etc. Then you could leave them out as an activity and see what they do with them. That might give you some clues.

-Are there enough toys? Last year I temporarily watched children at my provider friend's house when she had a death in the family. I thought she had waaayyy too many toys but the children didn't. I think that group was more well behaved than mine were at the time with less toys. It was hard for me to believe and I was shocked!

Just some things to think about....

We've pretty much all been there at one time or another.

Laurel

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Rules - I have instituted more rules than ever with this group lol, but I don't know if they are unreasonable or too much. Things like not running in the house, not hitting friends, etc. When I ask the kids why they do things the answer is usually because "I don't know" or "Because I wanted to"
Naps - all my kids nap here but I don't think they nap at home. I will say I've noticed worse behavior after naps some times.
Toys - I took out a bunch out of the dc room as they tend to just dump and run. Trying to get them to pick up after themselves is worse then pulling teeth. I often wind up closing off the play room because I get tired of reminding them to play nicely, and cleaning it.
Structured activities - they start out okay, but eventually the kids start arguing, crying, etc.

And maybe I'm being too hard on myself and my group - I sometimes feel that other providers have kids who sit and actually play with the toys, walk nicely beside them while out, follow directions, etc. meanwhile my guys are increasingly off the wall, running all over, crying, whining, loud, etc.

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I've nothing much to add other than to suggest increasing their outdoor time. Or move it earlier in the day and again in the afternoon.

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We are outside for hours. No sooner do we walk in the door then the running and nonsense starts.

I don't mind putting in the work, but I'm starting to get frustrated. How many times do I have to tell 3 and 4 year olds not to jump on furniture or run in the house or throw toys or hit? The 4 yo boy is off the K in the fall and I know that will be a breath of fresh air.

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I don't have a lot of advice, but as for the running, mine used to do that ALL the time! I always tell them that we don't run in the house, but we can run outside. I also make them go back and walk the entire length of where they were running from, while I hold their hand-they despise this! Also, I constantly remind them that they may hop, jump, skip, gallop, etc..., but may not run. I have been doing this for about a month or so and it seems to have helped.

Now they run every once in a while, but a lot of the times they will look at me in the midst of running and say "I'll hop" or what ever they want to do. One dcb's dad came to pick up and instead of running to him, he actually said "I hop" and hopped instead of running.

The runners that I have/had are 3, and 2-2 year old's. I do have to say that it did surprise me that they picked up on it pretty quickly, especially since the 2's are younger 2's!

Oh, they also jump on my couch sometimes. As soon as they do, I make them get off of the couch and sit on the floor. Sometimes it works and they will stop bouncing/jumping on the couch, and sometimes I have to constantly sit them on the floor.

For picking up toys, if they don't help, I will take their hand with mine over theirs and will have them pick up a toy, then another one, then another and usually they will start picking up.

I do have to say though, when I worked in a center, the 3 and 4 year old classes were the two classes that I didn't like to go into. It seemed like they were very headstrong and did what they wanted. In fact, nobody wanted to work in the 3's room. It was a lot of work to work with those two ages.

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One thing I have found that helps with runners, is "sit down and play." If they are not standing when they play, they cannot run. I have a couple of wonderers for which this technique works well, too. When I see them rise to walk or run around, I just say their name and "sit down to play." At first you repeat it about ever 2 sec. but they figure it out quickly. Loosen up on the sitting and playing as appropriate.

When I've had a rowdy group like you describe, after breakfast we have a "meeting" where I pair the group up and as pairs they choose what they are going to play with. It's important to have things out that are conducive to playing in pairs (ie, train tracks, little people sets, waffle blocks, legos, art at the table, etc). I require that they remain in pairs, but I may mix up the group as I see fit. That person is their buddy for the day. By assessing their individual personalities, you should be able to get well matched pairs together.

And finally, rule breakers come sit by me. And I am booorring.

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Had to laugh at that...lol

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Honestly, I feel as though this is the issue When I'm on top of them, they are good. As soon as I need to change a diaper, use the bathroom, prep a meal, etc. They start. I have them sit at the table, where they fight, argue, etc. etc.

I think I am running out of viable options. If I call parents to come get, then I get a bad rep in a small town (she can't handle the kids!) when the fact is, I've handled this age group before with ease - something has changed.

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This could be me right now. Every time I have to take someone to the bathroom, change a diaper etc, they start breaking rules. I have them sit at the table during pickup time, because otherwise it is so chaotic, it is unmanageable. Someone always gets down from the table, or they pound their fists on the table etc.

I have decided I might need to make some changes, but for financial reasons cannot cut someone unless I have a replacement family. I have kids here that point blank refuse to cooperative, they yell 'no' in my face and then do what ever they want to. I love doing curriculum and art with the kids, but it is a struggle to even get to it some days. I end up feeling awful and guilty.

I think young kids are plugged in to electronics too much these days. They don't know how to just sit for a couple of minutes and are seeking out some kind of stimulation, even if it is jumping on the couch, because they can't handle being still and quiet for a short time.

I know how you feel. It is a struggle just to get through the day.

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I had to do the opposite with this group. I have almost all little boys and they all love me and want to be near me. It doesn't matter if we are staring at a wall. If we are together, they are good to go. So, if you cannot follow the rules you do not get to have fun which translates to playing in the circle time room by yourself (there are 3 centers in there) while I play with my little buddies in the center time room.

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How are the most challenging children in your group parented? I ask this because this is what I noticed about my top 3:
1. 5YO Was not taught self control at all before age 4 1/2. Allowed to play endless hours on video gaming systems and watching TV at home instead of interacting with adults, thus making the problem of no self control even worse.

2. Almost 4YO Coddled. Asked nicely to do everything with no consequence for disobeying. "Can we please leave now?" *Blank stare at parent* "Buddy, it is time to go .... c'mon ...." *Blank stare at parent* "C'mon, 4YO, let's go home! " *Blank stare at parent* and this type of situation can continue for TEN MINUTES at a time! If corrected in front of the parent, they give hugs and say they'll fix the sadness at home while the child tells them how sad they are.

3. Almost 5YO Coddled. Was the youngest (with a big age gap) for quite some time. Just now are they beginning to change parenting strategies and will use the word no, discipline, etc.

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I have implemented a "super friend" theme to get the children to learn what is appropriate behavior...not that it works all the time but it has helped. When the dck change personalities when someone comes to observe or a parent comes in, I make sure the child and/or parent understands that is NOT "super friend" behavior and is unacceptable...we live in such an "all about me and what I want" generation.....

When I read your post, I knew where you were coming from...By using the "super friend" term, it is a way to get across to parents as well that good behavior is expected and bad behavior will not be tolerated. Sometimes the parent needs to know this more than the child.

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I was at a loss a few years back and so this is what I decided to do.

I set up two video cameras and started recording our free play and circle time. Anything that was going on that day.

Up loaded to my computer and watched them. Much to my surprise, there was a LOT of stuff my two eyes were not catching.

I had one kid who when I would walk away from them would look around to see if anyone was watching, hall off and do something bad and then as soon as I turned around they would completley blame it on another child. Often right after doing it, they would say Ms_______________Johnny just threw a block at me. I would then look at Johnny and say blocks are for building, not throwing.


This whole time I thought that it was Johnny and it was really this other sweet little angel who was really no angel at all..

I was also able to see where in my environment I needed to change, the things that I myself needed to change, like I needed to smile more and speak ,louder. I talk very softly and often the kids don't hear me.

All in all, it was one of the best ways that I was able to view my program and see where I was going wrong. It is so hard for us to see when we are on the inside looking out. Much easier to see when we can be on the outside looking in.

BTW, I am not saying that you are doing something wrong, but wanted to share with you how I was able to solve my issue that sounds much like yours.

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